#BL and QL and queerness

[absolutebl]

Okay, FINE, the shows you should watch for BL's QUEER AF roots

You ready to go hunting?

Many of these are difficult to find. Also many of the images of them and their posters have been block/banned by tumblr, so, no screen grabs for you! (Good times.)

I don't necessarily *like* any of these, but if you are queer and in this fandom and need to dialogue around BL's queerness - these are going to provide a foundation for you. They are important for various industry, reputation, directorial, and cultural reasons. As seeds often are.

Trigger warnings throughout.

The true beginnings:

Boys Love, Japan's 2006 movie is a REALLY rough start featuring a journalist + hot model = murder gay, mild necrophilia, cheating, abuse, rape, and suicide for love. Start as you mean to go on, why don't you, Japan? Is it queer... maybe? Is it BL... honey, I am very sorry to inform you, this started BL.

Note: Yoshikazu Kotani is famous in og BL circles since he acted in 3 early BLs, both Boys Loves and then Same Difference. Also he v tall and hawt.

Eternal Summer, Taiwan 2006 - unlike Japan, Taiwan did NOT start how it would, eventually, go on. But what a messy way to start. A high school story of 3 besties in a love triangle, self discovery, and sexual awakening that fucks it all up.

No Regret, Korea 2006, is a very unhinged queer catastrophe piece about a lost gay man who ends up a host and then almost a murderer because of both his job and his identity.

Note: This is the directorial feature film debut of Lee-Song Hee-il Korea's (so far as I know) first openly gay director who specialized (to this day) in queer content.

The Love of Siam, Thailand 2007, this was Thailand's queer awakening, sure they would backpedal for YEARS after, but in 2022 they began to remember what this movie was (and did) and overtly referenced this quiet little masterpiece. This movie is sad but stunning in that way that the best queer works from Thailand can be (like Present Perfect or ITSAY.) It has Thailand's quintessential softness around theme and character, which you'll understand perfectly when highlighted against the backdrop of the early 2000s works from Japan, Korea, and Taiwan. Thailand will never lose this soft style and it's one of the most attractive qualities of Thai BL: it's never very harsh with us or its characters. This movie very easily COULD have been quite harsh indeed.

I thought long and hard about including Rice Rhapsody AKA Hainan Chicken Rice (Hainan ji fan) on this list and finally decided it doesn't really qualify. Still let me mention Hong Kong's 2005 movie. It is amazing, fascinating, and very rough going for an ostensible comedy. It wasn't the actual beginning because few saw it and Hong Kong never really picked up or ran with BL let alone QL, but it was hella queer. It's also hella homophobic.

Just Friends? (2009 Korea) - this is Korea's first (kinda) upbeat version of a BL featuring already established boyfriends, one of whom is on military leave, trying to decide on coming out, family life, and the future. All of these are themes Korea will pretty much never tackle again, retreating as they would to their bubble. But what a fun little offering this little show was and is to this day. You should watch it.

Like Love 1 AKA I Love You As A Man: Part 1 - China's 2014 offering is actually pretty classic early form live action yaoi with things like whipping boy, a university setting, rich/poor jock/nerd pairing, hard grumpy/sunshine and a very odd title. It's pre-censorship with an HEA, also explicit, yeah China once did that. This is a lot less queer that it is classic BL and classic Chinese romance, neither of which have any kind of connection to reality. But hey, that's what I'm here for. But it's important to note the drifting away from queerness beginning to occur.

Love Sick - Thailand's 2014 "boys in blues shorts" high school set soapy (in all ways) offering is widely considered the true beginning of Thai BL and by default, eventually, BL as we know it today. (As the biggest producer they somewhat dictate taste and trends in the genre.) This is one of those BLs that owes almost nothing to yaoi, although it started a number of tropes that are now endemic to Thai BL. What it is, instead, is a well scripted story of bisexual self-discovery and the inherent chaos of loving someone of the same gender for the first time, all wrapped up in hormones, existing relationships, and communication issues. It is high school queer angst at its messiest. Nothing is going to be easy for these boys because queer isn’t easy but also because life isn’t easy… welcome to adulthood sweethearts. Is is overtly queer? For 2014 Thailand? Sure is.

Love Next Door 2 a movie from 2014 and one of Thailand’s early very high heat pieces, it’s odd, but sexy I guess? Some unexpectedly decent queer rep including femme characters getting screen time + HEAs. (Part one from 2013 has the same high heat content and features the same lead character (and actor) discovering he is gay with the sex worker next door, but isn't as good nor is it relevant to this installment.)

A few other unknowns, for the queer babies

Wait For Me at Udagawachou AKA Udagawachou de Matteteyo - from Japan in 2015, this is a story about two boys in high school one of whom is a repressed outsider and the other who has a terrible secret (body dysmorphia & cross dressing). When the first boy discovers what's up with the second one, his reaction is very much fetishization. "Oh Japan must you?" kinda started for me with this show. But in this case, Japan, weirdly MUST. This is the ONLY show laboring under (and testing) a pointedly straight lens (or is it?) and identity examination (yes but which boys' identity? that's the question) that I've EVER seen even edge into the BL genre. It is crazy queer, even as it mostly focuses on the fetishization of identity from an outsider's perspective. I WISH more people in fandom would watch it so I could at least talk to someone about it.

The Lover (BL Cut) Korea's 2015 series had multiple couples in an apartment complex, one pair of whom is a BL romance between a Korean man and a visiting Japanese tourist (played by a Kpop idol). It's comedic, slapstick sexy only (no kissing), but basically starts up Korea's bubble and use of idols in BL. It's kinda fascinating to watch them dodge around and still represent gayness in what (is sadly destined to become) a very Chinese way, but which Korea in pursuit of Hallyu and market share would morph into the bubble.

Mr. X and I from China in 2015 is a compilation piece and, I think, the first of this kind of multiple narrative shorter grab bags AKA "Sampler Pack BL." Two of the stories are very queerly sad, but the third is CLASSIC BL of the kind that would become China's best (and last) true BL, Addicted.

Sweet Boy, (Thai 2016) Chimon's first gay role and it is quite sad, oddly sexy, and similar to Dew the movie or My Bromance (just so you know what you are in for) but the acting is on point. When Thailand goes dark, this is how they do it, but this is rough going for baby queers because that's the darkness it is exploring. Our old thematic friends: the pain of self discovery and coming out into a homophobic environment and unfriendly reality, and the cost of being the one able (and willing) to stay in the closet.

Method (Korea 2017) this movie is a May/December actor/idol pairing, that should have been everything I wanted in life but is more about the older character cheating on his wife and their weird “artsy” relationship and frankly, I hated it. And I don’t say that lightly. Is it queer? Who tf knows, but is sure has some interesting things to say about the nature of PERFORMATIVE queerness.

Red Balloon is Taiwan's 2017 precursor BL to their biggest and most famous prestige piece Your Name Engraved Herein. If you're making a choice, choose that instead, but this series certainly paved the way for it to come into existence. Both shows tackle the pressures of culture and social structures on self acceptance and identity and the loneliness inevitably caused by conflict between the two.

(As indeed does Life Love On The Line, Present Perfect, Grey Rainbow, Tropical Night, My Sky, and many other queer meets early BL pieces that revolved around coming out and family acceptance.)

China's 3 2017 "they tried to censor the gay... and it went HORRIBLY wrong":

Beloved Enemy,

The Fairy Fox,

Mr. CEO is Falling in Love with Him.

Honestly these 3 are basically the uncanny valley of BLs.

The Novelist AKA The Pornographer series (2018-2020). Messy psychological machinations, gaslighting, fetishization, sexual corruption, and more good times from "well, what did you expect?" Japan, but also no holds barred queer, just well and truly fucked in the head (and arse) about it.

The Cornered Mouse Dreams of Cheese AKA Kyuso wa Chizu no Yume wo Miru (Japan 2020) - Drama llama queers so queer and so dramatic it's like Japan is trying to PROVE something: obsession, cheating, break-up, reunion, then break up again, all of it explicit. This show is just SO JAPANESE. I can't even, but you should watch it and you'll know exactly what I mean. Something like My Personal Weatherman owes it's lineage to this kind of BL. If you like Japan naked, boney, emo, and smoking (hot & ciggy) you will love this, and should watch it. It's objectively amazing, I can't stand it, but I NEED people to talk about it more.

More Queer Stuff about BL from moi

BL Linguistics & Queer Identity - I Am Gay versus I Like Men 

Will BL Get More Honestly Queer? 

Actually gay, not BL gay - the idea of “by queers, for queers, about queers,” the BL bubble, sanitized gay, and a queer lens

Queer lens (from the director) and chemistry (from the actors) in BL (A Tale of Thousand Stars)

Touch & Daisy in Secret Crush On You - Queer Coded Language and 3rd Gender Identity

BL in Taiwan & Gay Marriage

Debating Queerbaiting in BL ( + Devil Judge… is it queerbaiting?) 

BL Actors and the Assumption of Queerness - outing actors, coming out, being out, more:  Is that BL actor actually queer?

So is it really fetishization? straight women loving bl 

Some BL fans are sasaengs, and it’s a problem in this fandom 

BLs That Highlight How Society Treats Queers

10 BLs That Are Honest to a Queer Experience 

If you like these kinds of shows try the "Moody Arthouse Smackdoodle" section of this post too.

Happy watching!

(source)

[happypotato48]

This Is A Gay Asian Rant About BL Comments Made By Some Queer Westerners I See Sometimes.

So you know of those gays (usually white) that made dumb tiktok dancing to list of countries that legalized same sex marriage and list of countries that discriminate against LGBTQIA+ poeple as a way to say something racist. yeah i kinda got the same vibes from some comments regard how asian BL is homophobic just cause they don't live up to queer western standard. look, i'm not saying that some BLs and their creators don't deserve criticism regard how they capitalized/exploited queerness for an easy cash grab.

But people need to understand that Asian countries despite recent progress are still very much culturally conservatives. so when people says that thai bl is homophobic and all the characters looks like bunch of straight guys, which is true for some olders thai BLs i'm not gonna denied that. but after all this time and newer BLs generally being very queer and most of creators being out queer themself and poeple still making these comments, i'm annoyed.

And don't get me start on the actors. you don't know them! why are you making assumption and calling them queerbaiter just cause they acts in bl. like maybe they're straight, maybe they're not but what they're definitely doing is making queer content for you know, queer people here. so when you made halfass comments about their sexuality what do you think that made other queer people who still in the closet feels. and when you add the nationality to that, "these thai bl pair are this and that, this korean actor is so ungrateful for his bl past", etc. when our societies are still very much still in progress regard LGBTQIA+ acceptance. it make us living here feels fucking awful like somehow we're lesser queer than people in the west just cause we don't have citibank at pride or some shit.

And the shittiest in my humbled opinion are comments regard censored chinese bls. people do know like, that the creators making these bls are risking their livelihoods for this. that these shows getting make at all are miracles. yes it sucked that they're censored but they're still very much queer shows making by queer people who want to express thier queerness despite the chinese government being the chinese government. when people dimissing these shows as not belonging in queer media, you're also dimissing their creators and audiences as not belonging in the community.

Look what i want to say is that we're trying our best over here, and maybe our best are not up to your liking. the ways we talk and express our queerness maybe still can be perceived as problematic by western queer standard. but these media are our house and you're the guests. for people aren't shitty we appreciated that you're here engaging and loving our media, this is your home too and you're welcome in it. i can speak for myself that i very much love being here on tumblr and interacting with people from all over the world who love BL. but for people who are being shitty sometimes about asian bl.

YOU'RE THE GUESTS, BEHAVE!

[maybe-boys-do-love]

taking certain western ql fans by the shoulders and shouting YOUR QUEER EXPERIENCES ARE NOT UNIVERSAL

[starryalpacasstuff]

The Absence of India in Discussions on Queer Asian Media

(Edit: Since making this post, I've compiled a list of all the queer Indian media I can find here (it's also pinned on my blog). India may still be relatively absent from discussions on queer media, but it doesn't have to be that way, and change starts with us!)

So, yesterday @lurkingshan tagged me in an ask she got from @impala124 about the absence of India when we're talking about queer Asian media. I was intially just going to reblog it with my thought, but as it kept growing I figured it'd be best to just make my own post. Please read the ask linked above first so this makes sense.

*cracks knuckles* this is going to be the most fun I've had writing a post in ages. (For a little background, I'm a queer Indian, born and raised)

So, this is a very interesting question on a subject I've been rotating in my head for the past several months. There's a lot of different variables that contribute to the noticeable lack of discussion on Indian and South Asian queer media in general, so I'm just going to talk through the ones I've noticed a little randomly.

Talking about Asian media in general, it's well known that the mass popularity of kpop and anime has contributed massively to the increase in popularity of Asian media. If you've been in the Asian media fandom for any amount of time at all, you'll have noticed that media from Korea, Japan, and China gets by far the most attention from international audiences; all East Asian countries. There may be several reasons for this, but in particular, it's no secret that the fetishization of East Asians is a massive proponent in the popularity of media from these countries, while there's no such interest in South Asians. If we shift our focus to queer media specifically, media from these three countries is still extremely popular, with the addition of Thailand and the Philippines to some extent; both South East Asian countries. From what I've seen, there's very little international interest in media from South Asian countries (although, if we're talking about India specifically, I can't exactly say anything. Bollywood has not been good lately). If we talk about queer South Asian media, the scope of interest falls even further. If you'll notice, MyDramaList, one of the most commonly used websites for finding and tracking Asian shows only allows for East and South-East Asian shows. So, that's one reason—there's just not much international interest in Indian media in general. As Shan said in the initial post, it's partially because of a difference in priorities. Korea is notorious for using media to gain global standing, the role of the 'soft power' of Thai bls in the recent bills for equal marriage in Thailand has been widely discussed, the list goes on. Could racism also play a part in the massive gulf of interest in media from East Asian versus South Asian countries? Probably. But I'm not going to get into that too much.

Moving on, there's obviously a massive lack of queer media in India. I think this is greatly exacerbated by the fact that it's very hard to support the people making queer media beyond buying and/or streaming their work. The majority of people engaging with Indian queer media are queer Indians, and a lot of us have to do so in secret because of the society we live in. This means that creators that have to push through several obstacles to publish their work often receive little incentive to continue doing so because of the lack of engagement. Because of the lack of media, international fans are less likely to become interested in queer Indian media, and the cycle continues.

I will say though, contrary to what Shan said, I think Indian media, particularly anything that came out post 2019 might actually be on the easier end of the spectrum when it comes to access. This may simply be bias, so forgive me if I'm wrong here, but from what I've seen, a lot of queer Indian shows are in fact available on streaming sites, and at most you'd need a vpn to access them. I think the two main things that actually hold back queer Indian media from becoming more popular are a lack of noise and it's relatively lower quality.

The main way we find out about new shows in this space is through either word of mouth (well actually, post) or because we follow production houses known for producing media. Because of the sparse nature of both the media and the consumers, there's very few people who learn enough about the media to want to give it a shot. For example, there's a film on netflix called Badhaai Do (hindi for Congratulate Us) that I've been meaning to watch for a while. It centers around a lavender marriage and I've heard a lot of good things about it, so I was slightly surprised to see that most of the people on tumblr I interact with who have been engaging with queer media for far longer than me had never heard of it. There's also a, Indian BL from 2017 called Romil and Jugal that I've written about before here, and I would've never learned of it's existence if not for a friend hearing about it from another friend of hers.

Because there's so little queer indian media, it's natural that the quality leaves much to be desired. The main issue is, because the queer asian media market has become so saturated lately people are becoming a lot more selective with what they watch, and for good reason. This means that queer media from india is simply unable to grow and improve over time, leaving it stagnant. Back in 2016-2018, the overall dearth of queer media from Asia meant that a lot of people were willing to watch shows that were average or even worse. Thailand particularly seems to have benefitted from this, being able to grow and evolve its queer media due to the successes of shows like SOTUS, 2gehter, TharnType and more even recently, KinnPorsche. Queer Indian media will have a much, much harder time with this because of all of the factors I've talked about and more, meaning that it is much harder for queer media to evolve. Honestly, though I haven't been able to watch/read much queer media from India, the stuff I have seen is really quite decent, it's just that it tends to fail in comparison to some of the brilliant stuff we're seeing from other countries. A while a ago, I bought four queer books by Indian authors, and of the three I've read so far, I'd genuinely recommend two, albeit one with quite a few reservations (I'll be writing about them sometime in the future, just haven't found the time yet). While talking about this with @neuroticbookworm, she brought up the excellent point of how Indian media in general has just been of fairly poor quality lately. It seems to me that a lot of it is catered to more conservative audiences, which results in people like me becoming disillusioned with Indian media and simply moving onto things from other countries. It has been a long time since I've watched anything worthwhile come out of Bollywood. So, it becomes even harder for queer Indian shows to be found at all; a majority of their target audience has already forsaken Indian media as a lost cause.

So, those are a bunch of reasons because of which there's not a lot of discussion about queer Indian media in fandom spaces like Tumblr. Something else I'd like to point out is, it's very hard for queer shows in India to gain much traction whatsoever. Live television slots are ruled by the infamous Indian serials, the majority of the audience being people in their late thirties and older, particularly women. And while homophobia is just as prevalent amongst the youth of India as it is amongst older generations, younger people are far more likely to be engaging with queer media, in India at least. This means that it would be near impossible for queer shows to air on live television the way they do in countries like Thailand and Japan. The majority of Indian youth use global streaming services to watch shows, hence the greater concentration of queer shows on service platforms. (Romil and Jugal is something of a dark horse here—I don't believe it was ever aired, but it was produced by a producer who has a few decently popular serials under her belt and is available on an Indian steaming service—another reason I'm determined to research how tf this show ever came into existence) If we talk of movies, the industry is limited by the iron fist of Bollywood, another reason it's very hard for queer movies to be produced and why they're generally found on streaming sites.

There's just not a lot of people who have the balls it would take to make a queer Indian show/movie and push it to the Indian public beyond a streaming service. I mean, we're all seeing what's happening with the Love in The Big City drama right now, and believe me, public backlash in India would be the same, if not much worse. And if no one in India is watching these shows, why would anyone in any other part of the world? There's barely any public figures that would be willing to participate in such a project, so queer media stays underground. Currently, Karan Johar is the most popular—and one of the only—out celebrities in Bollywood, and, well, he's treated as something of a laughing stock by the public. He has one or two queer adjacent shows under his belt as a producer, but once again, they're barely known and available only on Netflix. There was a movie called Dostana in which he played a straight guy pretending to be gay but, well, that speaks for itself. And well, I can't exactly blame him for it, knowing how the Indian entertainment industry is.

To talk a little more about the specific comparison between India and Korea, I think you're fairly accurate in saying that the two countries seem to be roughly on par in terms of homophobia, although that's an extremely vague statement that's rather hard to either prove or disprove. While the difference in international attention towards Korean and Indian media is certainly a major component of the difference in discussion about the queer media from these countries, there's obviously other things that go into it as well. There's this video I watched some time ago on the progression of queer representation in K-dramas that's quite well researched. It's an hour and a half long, so in case you don't have the time to watch it (though I do recommend it), it basically talks about some of the dramas with queer rep that have aired on Korean television and their impact. While it's hard to gauge the level of impact of these shows on the availability of bls and gls in Korea, they certainly had an effect, if only telling the queer population of Korea that they are seen and heard. To my knowledge (although I may be mistaken), no such queer rep has ever aired on Indian television, meaning that there's nothing to push creators to put queer media out there. There have been old movies and shows that depict queerness, but none of them ever reached the sort of the scale where they may have some sort of impact on the industry. As I mentioned earlier, the widespread popularity of K-dramas (and k-pop) does make it easier for creators to make queer media since there's a much higher chance of the shows being successful thanks to the international audience. Bringing back Love In The Big City, the success of the book abroad and the high probability of the show being well received internationally is probably one of the reasons it was able to be produced amongst domestic backlash.

Now, I've been talking a lot about how it's difficult for queer Indian media to gain any sort of international recognition with domestic attention. However, it's not necessarily the case. Here's where I start rambling (I say, as if this post isn't verging on 2k words). It's been proven that the presence of the international market allows for greater creative freedom in spaces beyond television. The best example comes from Korea's very own 'soft power'; K-pop. There's a K-pop group called Dreamcatcher that debuted in 2017 with a rock sound and horror concept that was extremely rare in kpop at the time. They succeeded mainly by focusing most of their promotions to the foreign market, knowing that their concept would not be well liked in Korea. And they succeeded. Today, Dreamcatcher has a sizeable fandom and has even been growing in popularity in Korea, with the Korean public warming up to their genre and having influenced other girl groups to try out similar sounds. We've already talked about the lack of international attention for Indian media, but there's also the issue that the producers of queer Indian media aren't marketing to foreign audiences, which remain ignorant.

That's all I have, this is so long good lord. All in all, there's a bunch of factors that feed into each other creating a cycle which means that, unless there's a break somewhere, queer Indian media will remain unrecognized. I'm excited to see what other people have to say, because this is a topic close to my heart and I'd definitely enjoy seeing more discussions around it.

[thebroccolination]

FAN ASKS KRISTSINGTO—IN 2024—WHO’S THE “TOP”

So, I presume the fan here was asking who the top is in The Ex-Morning, not KristSingto themselves. And I assume Singto mainly handled the answer because he’s more comfortable speaking English, and he did an excellent job.

I just wanted to share this to show the kind of questions they’re still being asked now, in 2024, when they’re in their late twenties/early thirties. Personally, I can’t fathom asking two actors what their characters’ sexual positions are, and yet this is a line of questioning that they’re visibly accustomed to answering.

You can imagine what they were being asked in 2016 when there were even fewer functional guardrails as to what was appropriate to ask them, what personal boundaries to respect, etc. If you can ask them sexual positions now, it’s not difficult to imagine how much more invasive the questions were when they were first starting out in 2016 as university students.

This is why I keep urging people to consider the context of that Instagram story interfans have used to slander Krist. He’s twenty-nine now and he’s used to people asking him explicit questions he shouldn’t be expected to answer.

So, y’know, when he ended the answer with, “If you love each other, you can switch as you like,” I laughed. (He was probably trying to say it in English at first, but the delivery in Thai was fantastic.)

One day, I hope Krist and Singto are willing to speak openly about what it was like in their earliest days when there were no protective buffers around them or their private lives. I think interfans would appreciate just how strong both of them were to get through all of it, individually and together.

[dear-someone-letterstomyself]

I mean just… imagine the INSANE things going through Wines brain when he’s drunk at the bar….

Like, your last bit of high school truly sucked, you slowly come to the realization that you’re no longer dating your girlfriend because you like her you’re dating her because when you go to her house you get to see her brother… who is a boy and holy shit you like boys… and that scares the ever loving shit out of you, so you break it off… you feel like there’s something terribly wrong with you, like you’re an evil, horrible person and your heart aches for what you could have had if only you were normal.

And then you start university, largely you’ve closed yourself off from people aside from a few friends because you’re desperately afraid that someone may find out your horrible secret, but fate seems to have other plans.

Your introverted ass gets picked to be a part of the elite it crowd of the school… which means you’re forced to socialize… and tertiary to this group is this boy, this very sweet VERY extroverted boy who seems to REALLY want to be your friend? You can’t quite figure it out, of course he’s attractive… so even though you loathe it your interest is piqued and you become unlikely friends, much closer than you ever anticipated…

And then one night, after your friends force you to throw away all your things from your past relationship, you go out drinking with this elite it group and your drunk brain does some quick drunk math and realizes… holy fuck… they’re all gay?? Every one of these very hot popular guys has a BOYFRIEND?? They’re all dating MEN… and you DEFINITELY want to date men too?? Hang on is this NORMAL?? None of them seem to hate themselves?? Is there… not something wrong with me?? Am I actually… fine?? Is this deep dark secret I’ve been carrying not nearly as deep and dark as I thought??

I’m just saying that with that one singular moment of seeing all the perfect 10 boys PLUS Wa and Klao… Wines entire world view just imploded and it sure does say something about the importance of visibility and community…

[shhhhimwatchingthis]

Actually love the way The Next Prince is exploring the power between Khanin and Charan.

Like, yes Khanin is a prince but he found out last week. They're in the kingdom in which Khanin is a prince but he is a stranger there. he has no allies or friends. no one he can trust. Unlike Charan who has the King's ear, who has a place, who has friends and allies.

Charan is older than Khanin and a stronger physical fighter but Charan is quicker on his feet in the improv/get out of trouble department and just as if not more gutsy and stubborn.

And most significantly in the ep 3 reveal Charan just helped manipulate the hell out of Khanin by telling him his father is dead. As the only thing remotely familiar to Khanin now he's imprinted HARD on Charan and the devastating thing is Charan KNOWS it.

Charan desperately tries to give Khanin his power back to make up for it. When they're alone in his room, he tries to invoke propriety only for Khanin to retort by asking why it suddenly matters now and not when they Shared A Bed on the run. and like Khanin is right in that scene Charan has no response to that. Like its a fascinating exchange in terms of power because Charan is trying to give Khanin power back...by denying him the thing he wants (Charan by his side) which means Khanin doesn't really have the power in the scene....but he does clearly shut Charan up and win the argument so he does maybe have some of the power.

And then of course Khanin does start acting like a prince, pulls rank and drags Charan to his side, but so many of these other disparities still exist between them: age, Khanin's status as a stranger in his own kingdom vs Charan's lower rank but familiarity, the LIE that Lie is going to Devastating.

It's all just so fascinating. The show is both highlighting the inequality between the two and continuinally putting them in on an even level. And its just interesting in comparison to say Cutie Pie, in which Lian was always always one step ahead compared to Kuea, instead there seems to be real effort to play and shift with the power dynamics between these two.

Anyway, I need a million more episodes of this show.

[monsamborabutterfly]

Me: trying to enjoy any bl series

Also my brain:

Don't get me wrong there were a few I liked like the on1y one. And I love kidnap and will start jack & joker soon but damn the girls do hit different for me atm.

It's not a competition and the more queers the better I think. I just always had a bit of an issue with wlw media cause it never felt quite right (I don't know how to explain) and it's just so nice that I'm enjoying gls so much lately!

[cirphu]

The 4 Minutes trailer really solidified something that has been on my mind as of late. I have been in the ql fandom for a while and remember when the majority of the love scenes in (Thai) queer visual media would pan over to a fish bowl or just fade to black. My younger self didn't quite understand the implications of why that was and just thought these were necessary (i.e. because of actors' ages, the story being told etc.) or stylistic choices, which in some cases they were, but as I grew older and learned more about the queer community and myself, it just seemed that these moments were made to seem pure in order to make and keep the gay palatable. However, over the past couple of years, there's been a noticeable shift which has reached quite a peak this year and it's such a beautiful thing to see.

I say all of that to say to hell with the bashful decency that aimed to keep queerness in it's place. Because we make love like the world might end tomorrow, and we most certainly fuck like it too.

[doublel27]

We Are: Queer Found Family and Romance

Or the meta I didn’t intend to write.

It’s taken 9 eps (of me admittedly watching We Are through gifs and clips on Twitter, because I have yet to pay for iQIYI and I am bad at grey watching) but I think I have figured out the central conflict/plot of We Are and why the mostly linear narrative of Phum and Peem with the in media res relationships of our other three pairings made this impossible to fully tease out until we got all the pieces.

The through line that connects all of these stories about how incredibly hard it can be to be part of a queer friend group when the lines of friendship and romance blur, especially when there’s a real aspect of found family to that group.

Two things really cemented it for me this week: Tan telling the gang (and therefore the audience) the full scope of his background with Fang, as well as the beginning of Phuwin’s IG live where he talks about why he likes Kluen as a character is that he’s very direct with people he likes and isn’t blurring the lines between friends and possibly fucking up the friendship.

Because that’s the central problem that all four main couples of the show grapple with in different ways. I’m gonna get into all of that under the cut.

I’m going to start with Tan and Fang because aou contains multitudes and is my beloved while going for Fang could have always messed up his relationship with Phum, we find out in episode 9 that Tan met Fang first. Unsurprisingly, it’s not a great first meeting between what are seemingly two known fighters of what appear to be rival high schools. But then Tan finds Phum and Fang being jumped by a group from his own high school and saves them and eventually becomes friends with them sometime two years+ before the start of our story. Within this time, Tan falls so far in love with Fang, who can both out bitch and out fight, him that Tan goes full simp instead and cuts out the fighting(love that for him).

And mixing his reveal to his friends of how he met Fang and how Fang eventually consumed his waking thoughts to the point he would wish to order Fang as a pizza topping (my love for Tan is immeasurable).

But take us back to episode 2 (which is now on YouTube for US watchers for how long I don’t know) and Tan has clearly not seen Fang in awhile. He asks Phum to invite Fang out where Tan will happen to be. At the time, it was taken as Tan and Phum are university friends and Tan and been obsessed with Fang ever since and needs Phum to make the connections. But the clues that Tan and Fang were also close were already laid down. Their exchange goes:

Tan: Hey. It’s been awhile. Right?

Fang: I thought you were dead.

Tan: Come on. I haven’t seen you in ages either. (That’s the English translation, but the flow of the conversation connotes that Fang hasn’t sought him out either)

At which point Phum makes the face he always makes when Tan is in Fang hyperfocus mode of looking away and sighing. And Fang pointedly asks why Phum invited him out and what is going on.

Which is a weird exchange when you think Tan is Phum’s friend who is obsessed with Fang. It is a less weird exchange between friends that have been avoiding each other for an unspecified amount of time. And we can assume Tan started avoiding Fang because he was madly in love with him and didn’t know how to handle it and didn’t tell Fang why he was avoiding him.

In the episode 9 speech to his friends, Tan outlines that he didn’t think Fang would ever reciprocate his feelings (that it was impossible) and didn’t want to fuck with the friendship (at which point Pun sends a longing look to Chain but we’ll get back to that later) with Fang and Phum and he buried it. Until he couldn’t live with it any longer and decided to do something about it.

Which with the limited information we have, his feelings were already fucking with his friendship. He already didn’t know how to approach Fang because of his feelings at the start of the show, so is it better to not try and hope the romantic feeling dies while avoiding your friend or shoot your shot and maybe get a boyfriend out of it or maybe continue to fuck up your friendship. Tan chooses to roll the dice and it’s clear from the moment they leave the bar in episode two that Fang likes him back.

They both watch each other when they think the other isn’t looking. Fang is the one who sends Phum and Peem home together and sets himself up with a taxi ride with Tan. It’s particularly interesting to me after episode 9, this exchange, because Fang looks at a passed out Peem, mouths Peem? And proceeds to ask Phum if this is the guy that hit him while Tan snickers and Peem looks like the saddest wet cat. It’s only after the affirmative from Phum that Fang is essentially like “well, you can take him home Phum. Take home your drunk friend who hit you and I will go home with Tan.” Which our besotted Tan jumps at.

And considering the parallel between Tan and Fang meeting and Tan immediately sassing him and Fang throwing a punch leading to a fight, and Phum ruining Peem’s painting which led to mutual sassing and a kick to the nuts and a fight…I don’t know if Fang is a mastermind and connected the dots because these brothers need someone who will occasionally not be afraid talk back if need be and sees the potential for Phum to care as much about Peem as Fang does for Tan. Or if he just wants time alone with Tan and doesn’t see it. Look, I wouldn’t be surprised if Fang is secretly a long game mastermind.

Once they’re alone, Tan and Fang steal glances and flirt in the way that Tan makes very loud attempts at flirting and

Additionally, Fang is reserved like Phum, and seemingly as isolated as his only friends seem to be Phum’s friends. We don’t know if he is just not paying attention to other members of the architecture faculty or knows stuff about Kluen he won’t share. As previous parts of this narrative are folded in later episodes, we may find out. What we do know is he’s either ever only appeared alone or in connection to Tan and Phum and Phum’s friends. Even with the flashbacks, Tan points out that the head of the Fang, head of cheer club, approaches him alone and later it’s just Fang and Phum when Tan finds the group of guys jumping them. We know he and Phum adopt Toey who is bullied in high school. It makes sense why he’s potentially reserved about pushing things with Tan if Tan becomes his first real high school+ friend that he has outside of his brother.

Which is why by the time we get to episode 5, Fang says yes before Tan finishes talking. He’s been waiting but also wasn’t willing to be the first to put himself out there. And considering how much Fang and Phum seem to live in their heads and not in the world with everyone else, I can see why he needed Tan to be the one to commit to it first, especially with Fang’s later comments about not understanding why hanging out with him is a preference of Tan’s. I do hope we cross his “don’t tell tan how gone I am on him” bridge later in the narrative. Cause I think Tan knows, but also it’s nice to hear.

Let’s go back to another long-suffering pair where only one half really knew why they were suffering, and the other got a nasty shock, QToey.

I know the guys are all team if Toey loves Q and Q loves Toey then why is Q so hesitant? And I get it, but let’s talk about the double shock Q suffered and the potential layers of risk Q is facing.

It’s not just that Q is cautious with his heart. That is a factual truth. It’s why he ghosted Milk Frappe Boy, because while he fell in love with Milk Frappe Boy I think there was a deep worry, and a self esteem issue that the reality of Q, instead of Pencil Senior, would not be enough for Milk Frappe boy. So Q bolted and then deeply regretted said bolting enough say so to both Toey, not knowing the truth, and to Peem.

But the fact that he learned that Toey was indeed Milk Frappe boy at the same time he learned all of his best friends, his family for all intents and purposes, also knew and no one told him. And the way the confrontation is staged between Q and Toey, it is Q against Toey and everyone else is behind Toey.

And that, friends, that’s the real third rail for Q.

It’s one thing to know that he loved Milk Frappe Boy and that he loves Toey. And that is scary enough. The fandom loves to joke about how Toey is everyone’s little brother and they’ve all adopted him: and that is a correct assessment. But that means if Q fucks it up with Toey, he stands a chance in his mind of everyone else choosing Toey over him.

That fear doesn’t even feel that unfounded when everyone calmed Toey down mostly before Peem, Q’s true bestest friend, came out to be with him. Like Peem caught Toey before going after Q. The next episode nearly every character but Q (aside from Fai who is at all connected to this group) shows up to plan how to support Toey in getting Q.

And while I know my brain cell-less brain trust fully believe they’re helping Q, no one actually seems to ask what Q wants. Aside from Peem trying to get him to come to some that first night on the curb, no one ever asks. And that night all Q wants is to sleep in a pile with his four best friends, because that’s his family. Losing them is even scarier than losing Toey. In essence he’s lost Milk Frappe Boy once. He could do it again. But if they chose Toey…IDK.

We don’t know anything about their families really, aside from Peem’s lovely aunt and the fact that Phum doesn’t get along with his dad. And I get why when the focus is really on these large groups of found families (that are becoming one large found family) that the audience is really in love with. The bonds between the friends are just as much a part of the romance as the actual romances. Because the friendship is where the complications come from.

And while I can’t speak to mlm spaces, as I have never identified as a man, within queer wlw and non-binary spaces there are jokes about dating yourself out of friend groups. There are people you used to know who you don’t anymore because you dated someone in the friend group and were too new and got bounced. Or you date and the way it ends make everyone choose one side. Or, a person in the friend group has a crush on another person in said group, that is an open secret but when the person who was crushed upon gets a new relationship people get mad at them for not dating the person in the friend group who liked them all along because didn’t everyone know. (None of these are from personal experience I assure you 🙃)

And it doesn’t always happen like that. Sometimes the people figure out a friendship or a queer platonic solution when they’re not attracted to each other anymore. Sometimes they orbit around the friend group like two comets on opposite trajectories, occasionally crossing in awkward moments. Sometimes everyone gets past the weird. Sometimes no one does.

But that’s the risk that we’re playing in this show. I can choose the romance, but if it doesn’t work out, I am gambling this safe zone.

Which is gonna bring me to our last two pieces of this: one has had the most development and one the least but both are struggling.

I’m gonna start with Chain and Pun who are the most unhinged, gay yearning codependent besties that exist in the middle of the week and give Potae and Payos on Only Boo a real run for their money. (Both have lips touching earlobes and I don’t have a platonic answer for either) The thing is, I think both Chain and Pun are very aware of the mutual feelings. They both have moments where you know they’re aware but neither will do anything about it. And they are in the case of the story, the most embedded in one single friend group, and have the potential to explode their core group of five if things go sideways.

Now, they’re also the pair that has been effectively dating this entire time without actually dating. The ear biting and the blowing on things in the other’s mouth and the…I don’t have platonic explanations for their behavior okay? I don’t. Not naming it keeps it from being real though. It’s a collective hallucination or the biggest game of chicken.

Eventually, though, one of them is going to cross the line in a way that can’t be erased or the line redrawn. And it’s gonna have to be big because their friends watched them gaze longingly into each other's eyes for 20+ seconds and thought it was normal. Because this is how they are.

And that brings us to not quite friends not quite lovers and not quite enemies, Phum and Peem. The risk is, as discussed in many other metas, mostly on Phum’s side here and it’s why he spent the episode so hesitant. Yes he started off particularly entitled and rude. His and Peem’s relationship started as a fight (but so did Tan and Fang) and Phum feels incredibly comfortable with Peem. He’s definitely neurodivergent coded my Phum, which doesn’t make his assholery okay, but it explains his hesitancy to try new things and his struggle with making friends and expressing his feelings.

He’s got friends but he doesn’t feel particularly deeply connected to them. Yes, Beer makes time for him and actively seeks him out to give advice. He and Fang have a level of sibling codependency that hints at neglect and Fang protecting Phum at all costs. We see Tan approach Phum most of the time and while some of that is angling to get to Fang, Tan does genuinely care. But Tan is also incredibly loud which seems to be a lot for our neurospicy Phum, and Tan also has his large found family with Peem. Same with Toey, who Phum and Fang adopted long ago, and clearly Phum adores him, but he’s also the little brother of the art faculty.

And Peem is a very loving and giving soul and he makes time and space for Phum even though he’s annoying and high handed and gets Phum out of his ruts and comfort zones. And Phum clearly wants Peem to choose him, because Phum has already chosen even if he hasn’t said “I like you and want to date you.” He’s said other very direct things about how safe he feels with Peem and how connected he feels to other people by hanging out with Peem. And Peem is this safe space for him to go out and connect with the world without it being overwhelming and he even feels more connected to his own friends.

And that’s the danger that Kluen represents and what Phum struggles with. He wants Peem to choose him, but he also doesn’t want to force Peem to make a choice and not choose him, and then lose out on the experiences he’s building with Peem as well as a break in some of the connections he has with the people closest to him as Fang and Toey find love within Peem’s group. And so again, the question comes around, is it better to stay in this limbo where no one says anything and maybe Peem dates Kluen but I get to keep him as a friend, or do I roll the dice like Tan and maybe win.

I think it’s been a hard thread to pull because without the context of Tan & Fang meeting first, and Phum and Peem mending their relationship to become something akin to friends who kiss sometimes and don’t talk about it, and the lingering feelings of betrayal for Q by his friends (where they learned about his largest secret/mystery and NO ONE TOLD HIM) which are later revelations in the course of the show, they feel like different types of love stories without the mess of friendship blurring the lines. The story feels linear, because we start in a school year with the meeting of Phum and Peem, the connections between the other characters are older than this year, leaving some of their stories in media res.

And it’s an interesting core struggle taking a risk when the line between who you’re friends with, who you depend on, and who you’re attracted to blurs and the potential for rifts in your safety net are everywhere. It’s not the first show with this as a central tangle nor is it specific to queer television. But the reality of the deep ties that can exist within queer friendships and how they form deep supportive communities makes the stakes higher. And that’s why the friendships are developed nearly as much if not more than some of the romances. That’s where a lot of the risk lies for these characters.

Anyway, that’s nearly 3K of thoughts I didn’t know I had in me about We Are until today. But here we are.

[benkaben]

Regarding this interview about the portrayal of intimacy in Euthanasia...

I can't say I'm happy with any of it.

Because okay. You don't want the romance to derail from the drama? But still want it to be clear there's a romance there?

Then build it up, genuinely, show the characters grow closer and how they like each other, create moments between them that show the romance happening, not just state it for the audience verbally.

And hey, you don't need NC scenes for that! No, sexual intimacy is not the only thing that "proves" a romance exist.

I mean heck, you could even go all the way around and have all the NC scenes in the world and still present a story where the characters aren't in love with each other, because sex ≠ romance. Absolutely.

But also I'm, really tired™, of this idea that any kind of sex portrayed in media is only going to "taint" the final composition. As If sex and love stories were some dirty stain that automatically made the work lesser: Less serious, less formal, less dramatic.

I don't agree with the idea that you have to sacrifice intimacy in order to be taken seriously. I don't agree with the idea that sex is by default, just fanservice and therefore it's portrayal subtracts automatically from the story.

And don't even get me started on the way this idea is so prevalent specially when it comes to queer media.

I have never, in my life, encounter someone bashing Dark because it contains sex and nudes, I have seen more respect shown for the sex scene in Midsommar than for the explicit kiss of Catra and Adora, and I would argue we have at least a couple of good shows that discuss heavy topics without needing to censor themselves when it comes to CHARACTERS HAVING SEX.

It doesn't have to be One or The Other, and continuing pushing this idea that it has to, either your work becomes un-pure or can't be taken as seriously as you wish, is nothing but purity culture bullshit, and I'm mad, and so, so tired to still be having this discussion all over again

[waitmyturtles]

Thinking About QL Fandoms and Markets For Indian Queer Media

Alright, ::rubs hands together::, let's see if this old auntie can get the link history of this thread straight first.

@impala124 originally wrote in an ask to dear @lurkingshan about Shan's thoughts on a developing fandom for Indian queer media.

Shan subsequently asked a few of us on the internet, brown Asian and/or otherwise, to weigh in, which @starryalpacasstuff did here. Starry's piece has a few great reblogs with media resources that everyone should scurry to check out.

The inimitable @neuroticbookworm then decided to show us her literary Tae Bo skills and dropped an absolute MONSTER of a must-read regional media and industry analysis here. (Let me emphasize that this is a MUST-READ PIECE if you're interested in Indian media.)

I'm going to use NBW's piece as a reference throughout my weak-ass response tea here, because she covered almost everything that needed to be said about why there ISN'T a robust or developed fandom on the internet for Indian queer media. So go read that first, and if you forget to click back here, it's all good, because I'm just gonna offer some unorganized macro-level thoughts at this point.

****

I'd like to first amplify a number of themes that @neuroticbookworm made clear in her piece about the "media industry in India." I'm only putting that phrase in quotes not because NBW wrote it (she didn't), but because it's a wholly inaccurate phrase.

1) INDIA IS *NOT* A SINGLE, UNIFIED CULTURAL MONOLITH. Remember your early social studies classes on early civilizations? The Aryans, Harappa, Mohenjo Daro? Those specific civilizations arose in the north of the Indian sub-continent, and not a lot of social studies spaces outside of Indian classrooms give love to the other regional areas in India -- like, say, all of South India, hello -- that belong to other civilization definitions.

To be grossly overgeneral, ancient civilizations in the northern subcontinent were known as Aryan civilizations, while those of the southern subcontinent were known as Dravidian civilizations. We see these differences today in the food we brown people eat, and ESPECIALLY in the languages we speak. Tamil (a Dravidian South Indian language) couldn't be farther away from Hindi (a North Indian language emanating from Sanskrit).

2) While the prominent political nationalists of India (😐) would like to have you believe that all Indians are monolithically similar -- or rather, SHOULD be monolithically similar by way of all Indians speaking Hindi, consuming Hindi media, and erasing religious diversity (🤬) -- nothing could be farther from the truth of our incredibly diverse and complicated subcontinent. We Indians are regionally, and therefore culturally, diverse in a great myriad of ways, way beyond our food, language, and religious preferences.

[For my non-Indians and non-Asians reading this, think about the two dishes you see the most on Indian restaurant menus outside of India. Chicken tikka masala and tandoori chicken, right? That's typical "Indian" food to the untrained eye. CTM is a British dish borne from immigrant South Asian chefs; and tandoori chicken was created by North Indian Punjabis. My own Indian origins are half-half (lah), I'm half-South and half-North Indian (with some SE Asia thrown in there, boleh!). My brain fucking freezes when I speak to someone who thinks the extent of "Indian food" is CTM and TC, and I have to explain, for the millionth time, the basics of the incredible array of South Indian vegetarian food that I grew up eating and loving.]

Thus, what I'm trying to say is, when we say the word "INDIAN," there are some questions that a curious listener should be tuned into asking to get specifics about just what kind of "India" or "Indian" the speaker is speaking of. I'll often get the question, "but WHERE in India are your parents from," from tuned-in Asians, who want to know specifically about my regional background.

VERY SO OFTEN IN POPULAR DIALOGUE ABOUT "INDIAN MEDIA," THE UNDERLYING ASSUMPTION OF THE CONVERSATION IS THAT THE SPEAKER IS ONLY SPEAKING ABOUT HINDI-LANGUAGE MEDIA, WITHOUT RECOGNIZING THAT REGIONAL AND/OR NON-HINDI LANGUAGE MARKETS MIGHT BE MAKING MEDIA, EVEN POPULAR MEDIA, FOR THEIR SPECIFIC REGIONAL MARKETS AND AUDIENCES WITHOUT AS MUCH OF A GLANCE TO THE DOMINANT HINDI-SPEAKING NORTH.

NBW says this brilliantly in her incredible piece, which delineates the major differences in the MANY regional and even sub-regional media markets of India, that produce a VAST array of media in the languages of the regions, markets, and audiences that this media serves.

On a personal note, when I was a kid, I only watched old South Indian films subtitled in English that my South Indian dad found. My North Indian mom watched them with us happily. We didn't do Bollywood in my house because frankly, dad hated those films and wasn't into them. Now that I think about it, it's probably because those Hindi films didn't bear a single resemblance to the cultural and life he lived growing up in South India.

3) Alright, so we have established that in terms of media, to speak about "Indian media" as a monolith is utterly incorrect, and just, go back to NBW's piece to get an excellent analysis of the details of that situation.

NBW does a bang-up job highlighting important pieces of regional media throughout her post, and like I mentioned before, there are multiple lists of media in the reblogs Starry's piece linked above ( @silverquillsideas notes in her reblog of Starry's piece that two important films come out of the state of Bengal, a market that us Indians should certainly pay attention to in particular.)

I therefore might posit that there might not actually be a unified "fandom for Indian queer media."

IT IS CLEAR from the reblogs of the various pieces that we've written over the last few days, that us Indians who love QLs certainly don't INHERENTLY know, universally, about ALL the queer media, across the subcontinent, in the MANY languages we speak, that has been made.

We have a lot of learning to do across our own regional identities.

I'd argue that, instead, from an organic growth perspective, that regional media markets in India would respond to THEIR OWN AUDIENCE'S AND MARKET'S DEMANDS and create queer media WITHIN THEIR OWN REGIONS

a) if their market(s) demanded it, AND b) if there was either pre-production funding, or a guarantee of net revenue from the airing of such media.

A fandom doth not create media.

It is filmmakers that create media.

And those filmmakers need

✨ MONEY ✨

✨ MONEY ✨

✨ MONEY ✨

to make media.

Some regional markets will, by nature, be willing to take risks on a filmmaker's desire to make queer media. Those projects could succeed, or could fail. Badhaai Do is one of the best examples of a Bollywood breakout piece that gained even some international attention, and certainly attention ACROSS the subcontinent.

But I want to emphasize this point about

MONEY.

The question that we're pondering is, why isn't there a more prominent fandom for Indian queer media and/or QLs?

@twig-tea made note, in her reblog of Starry's original piece, about the importance of accessibility and subtitling, an important note not just for international audiences, but for regional Indian populations that don't speak the same language(s). Accessibility allows fans to watch the media of their own markets, and markets outside of their boundaries.

But even bigger than this is, before we even get into accessibility, is: the filmmakers need money to spend to MAKE projects, and in an ideal scenario for themselves and/or their studios, they then need to (hopefully) make a PROFIT to demonstrate a sustainable desire and demand for the media they're producing, a profit that could hopefully be re-invested into more and new queer media projects.

Let me not get into all the obstacles in which filmmakers, queer or otherwise, might run into issues with production fundraising for a queer-centered project. We Indians know about our conservative, often violent, obstacles.

NBW does a fabulous job in her piece discussing what COULD be made by way of queer media that COULD gain a stronger cultural foothold over time across the subcontinent.

4) A fandom, most often, develops as a response to media already created. A fandom, HOWEVER, *IS*, often, in today's digital age, often recruited to fundraise for projects they want to see! GoFundMe, right?

I think it was @impala124 in a reblog that mentioned that there's already a "market" for Indian QLs. But we've established now that there are actually many unconnected regional media markets in India that can't be assumed to be glommed together.

If a fandom WANTS to see a particular kind of media, in their own specific regional market, it's certainly well within its rights of speech to create internet buzz for it.

But I think we as fans also need to take responsibility for a better understanding of the economics of media creation, and to be patient as queer media is produced across the subcontinent, and to simply do our best to hype it up on the internet when we can, so that commercial sponsors and potential production funders can then pay attention to what us fans want -- and what we're willing to pay for.

And let me be honest, this is a *tremendously difficult proposition* for a field of media that's just really small against the giant, mainstream, well-funded media markets of India. And this field of queer media would be guaranteed to face crippling and disgusting conservative criticism as it gains more of a prominent cultural foothold -- as we are seeing in South Korea literally at this very second.

Looking on the economic bright side: we see in Thailand and in Japan that QLs make MONEY. Shit, not just Japan being into Japanese QLs, but also, Japan is so into Thai QLs that the major Thai channel and studio, GMMTV, has a distribution deal with the Japanese channel TV Asahi to air Thai QLs in Japan. MONEY, BABY! INTERNATIONAL DOLLAS. Great Sapol, of the QLs Manner of Death and Wandee Goodday, just wrapped a stint in a mainstream Japanese drama, and I'll assume that's because he's hotttt and talented gotten a lot of attention in Japan from his previous Thai QL work, as well as his lengthy resume in Thai mainstream media.

The hunger for QLs is there in these two major national markets, and the Thai and Japanese audience markets have proven that the demand for content for these countries can be economically fruitful. So the media markets of these two (much smaller than India) countries are pumping ever more money into production, and filmmakers are responding with more QL content than ever.

We have not even begun to contemplate reaching that tipping point in India, across our regional markets, yet. Again, NBW offers some creative paths forward that will take time to develop.

Fuck, I mean. Imagine Bollywood looking towards Thailand and its branded pair formula as an inspiration to develop queer media. (IMAGINE.) Get two super popular Bollywood actors together in a branded acting coupling/partnership. Shah Rukh Khan and Saif Ali Khan doing India's version of What Did You Eat Yesterday?. In aprons! Making keema and rajma and chapatis. ShahSaif (SaifShah?!). KhanKhan. How would that go down?

It's a proven economic formula in Thailand. And that's just one example. We're well familiar, separately, with how Japanese QLs gain traction in bigger media spaces for its audiences, with media being adopted for the screen, as they mostly are, from popular yaoi and yuri mangas.

India and its regional media markets need some proven economic formulas within its regional markets to prove that queer media can gain culturally important footholds across the mindsets of various audiences -- and to prove that those footholds can produce profits.

The fandom element in this is that the regional fandoms, while creating buzz, could also prove to be important economic factors to a regional queer media industry being able to survive, and maybe even thrive.

Assuming that I am speaking to a mostly progressive group of fans here: we can only hope for this, and we must support the queer media that the subcontinent currently produces, IN *ALL* THE LANGUAGES (!!!!), to demonstrate to producers that Indians, wider South Asians, and even non-South Asians, WANT THIS MEDIA. We want it, we SHOULD want it, and damn it, we should SPEND OUR MONEY on it, to show our appreciate to the filmmakers taking risks to make this media.

I'm out! I need a chai and a samosa and a dosa.

[dramalove247]

Favorite Things: Century of Love pt 1

Some series get better the more you think about it and this is definitely one of those. There are so many layers to this story and the characters. You expect popcorn from a story that starts with a magic rock and a goddess that is launching a BL ship, but this story ended up being an entire meal.

Century of Love is definitely going to need a re-watch. It's so easy to get caught up in the immediate action and loose focus on the complex themes woven throughout the series. Love the exploration around fate vs choice, stagnation vs growth, love and loss, trauma and healing, prejudice, forgiveness. This show gives us so much to explore and digest. Re-watching it will be so satisfying, someday, when we have the emotional bandwidth to handle all this show dishes out.

Spoilers ahead with discussions and posts about some of the many reasons we loved this series:

We are huge suckers for a red thread. This scene had us instantly hooked and smiling. @namtan gave us 😍 GIFS:

@jimmysea put together a great post showing so much of the cute Episode 6 gave us right before the story starts heaping on the pain.

Ready for more pain? Every time we revisit these scenes, it hurts all over again. But apparently we are here for the pain because we love them. @heretherebedork put together a great post about Vee not being able to say goodbye and lot go of those he loves. Ironically, the only way for Vee to save San is to let go. It hurts so much and we love it!

This scene was devastating. Everything about it was epic and so well done, we love it more than is healthy! @heretherebedork once again put together a great post highlighting some of the layers that make this scene so rich:

😍 And @wanderlust-in-my-soul capture the scene so well in this gorgeous GIFS:

This scene was so bitter sweet. Both of them look like they are seconds away from shattering to pieces. 💔 This part of the story was devastating and the acting was perfect. Offroad looks like he already had a hard cry. @wanderlust-in-my-soul again gave us stunning GIFS:

"Please don't do this if you don't want me." This script is great! Thank you @namtan for GIFS of this great scene:

This series had so many beautiful scenes, it's impossible to choose a favorite. But this scene was definitely up there. Plus the acting was equally 😍 @poetry-protest-pornography had a great post with stunning GIFS of this scene:

@gay-meowmeow cracked us up with this!

❤ There were too many posts we loved to share them all here! Find more in Part 2

[ineffable-opinions]

BL “Censorship” & Commercialization

Content: 1. ubiquitous censorship - special focus on Japanese BL 2. commercial viability of live action BL & generalizations 3. solutions - special focus on state support of Thai BL 4. [update state-supported production of Love in the Big City series]

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Censorship is a sensitive topic. I have tried my best. Please feel free to comment and critique.

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History of Korean BL is one of censorship and commercialization and Korean fu-people has struggled against both. There have been different victors at different points in time. Aljosa Puzar’s "BL"(Boy Love), "GL"(Girl Love) and Female Communities of Practice and Affect in South Korea chronicles that struggle. (Highly recommended.)

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I have tried to problematize BL commercialization before. But that was in the context of fu-culture and the commodity fetishism associated with the consumption of BL, particularly in live action form which is probably its most capitalist rendition for many many reasons.

Here I would like to look at it from another angle: censorship. This is a continuation of my earlier post (Why so many shonen ai live-action?) motivated by the live action adaptation of ‘조폭인 내가 고등학생이 되었습니다’ (I, A Gangster, Became a High School Student) by 호롤 (Ho Rol).

The live action has jumped genres switching from BL to 판타스틱 휴먼 드라마 (lit. fantasy human drama). This switch got it tagged as ‘Censored Adaptation of Same-sex Original Work’ on My Drama List. I personally don’t like that tag. Almost all BL adaptation is a censored adaptation, with notable exceptions like Sei no Gekiyaku. But no one uses that tag for, say, 25 Ji, Akasaka de (2024) which censored all sexual content, especially from the volume 1 of the manga which was critical to the story and the couple’s development in the original manga series’ and its multiple adaptations’ popularity. Sukiyanen Kedo Do Yaro ka (2024) went as far as removing the more sexual second couple from the live action adaptation all together, yet it does not get a "censored" tag.

An interesting question that the controversy surrounding High School Return of a Gangster (2024) has sparked is that of BL media’s commercial viability, especially in live action form. Here’s what producers told the Korean newspaper, Hankook Ilbo, about the genre-jumping:

"BL 장르는 제작비 투자나 리쿱(제작비 회수)에 한계가 있는 게 사실이다. 그러다 보니 처음부터 이 작품은 브로맨스로 해보고 싶었다"

“The BL genre is limited in terms of investment in production costs and recoup (recovery of production costs). So, from the beginning, we planned it as a bromance (beulomaenseu).”

The author of this article cites examples of works that enjoyed success on OTT platforms, namely Watcha’s Semantic Error and TVing's Unintentional Love Story (2023). However, the article also highlights the fact that BL continues to be a niche genre and live action adaptations don’t guarantee success.

이성택 (Lee Seong Taek), the director of High School Return of a Gangster, previously directed the BL Love Class (2022). The producer 넘버쓰리픽쳐스 (Number Three Pictures Co., Ltd.) have BL works like Unintentional Love Story under its belt.

'Unintentional Love Story' Director Jang Eui-soon (장의순) | source

If the producer of one of the two most popular live action BL is admitting to it, then it is not easy to dismiss the issue of commercial viability of live action BL.

Very famous BL publishing houses (starting with JUNE) and hosting platforms with relatively lower expenses have struggled. Some of them are no more. It is also difficult for authors to survive merely on earnings from publishing houses and hosting platforms, especially when those platforms are not very rich. So, it is not difficult to imagine that live action production houses also struggle to survive.

Take GMMTV for example. They are probably one of the most successful BL producers. According to their managing director, BL content (series) is not a profitable business in itself. They rely on khujin (branded pairs) of actors to bring in advertisement revenue, merchandize sales, and pull crowds to concerts and fan-meets. It is not enough for actors to just act. They are expected to sing, dance and perform. Meanwhile, GMMTV is forced to keep working with these actor pairs and stick to templates that suit them. While it works for now, it remains to be seen how long the business model can last.

Now there is also investment from Mainland China that has migrated to other BL producers following dangai ban. But those who invest already burned themselves pretty bad with all the money they poured in during the short-lived but explosive dangai boom. It is sunk cost at this point. Another crack down could be the death knell for Chinese investments in BL. 

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More generally, it is likely that commercial viability of a live action BL project hinges on the following:

#1 Target demographic

Like all other BL content, live action too is primarily targeted at fu-people (BL audience) – both queer and non-queer. The target demography is further sub-divided based on the type of BL and purchasing power.

Sweeter ones are supposed to appeal to all ages and that’s the area Thailand and GMMTV in particular are focused on. Most of Japanese BL series are sweet. Korea too produces sweet BL. However, they are unlikely to bring in explosive success the way odo BL (those following royal road narrative progression – wherein characters face significant challenges, interpersonal or otherwise, to reach happy ending).

Older and, perhaps more hard-core fans, are likely to support jado works (BL that follow the evil path where neither happy ending nor resolution to challenges are guaranteed) with surprising frequency. This might be partly due to the erotic content in jado works.

Purchasing power of BL fans vary widely. There are those who are

“sending gifts to their actors in Thailand, sending food trucks to their shooting locations, putting up billboard advertisements and doing charity events [as well as] ordering merchandise in bulk.”

They also travel to BL producing nations [on fan pilgrimages] and attend fan meetings, concerts and other events regularly.

(Source: The Print)

The other group of BL fans who are probably younger and/or can’t afford to show support in the above-mentioned ways. BL commercially benefits from being appealing to those with higher purchasing power.

#2 Popularity of original work in case of adaptation  

Popular BL novels, manhwa, etc. bring in a set of fans who are interested in the live action. Longer and more-acclaimed works are likely to ensure success of the live action given decent making and reasonable changes during adaptation. Semantic Error is a case in point. However, missteps during adaptation can have the opposite effect.

#3 Cost of production

It is difficult to get investment in the first place, especially with how niche the genre is. Moreover, higher cost of production sets the bar for success higher too.

On the other hand, high production quality and better cast and crew (likely more expensive too) makes the viewing more pleasurable and increases the likelihood of success.

There are other factors which influence the success of BL producers. The most popular BL live action from China, Addicted, was produced by the author, Chai JiDan, with a tiny budget. Its dangai family drama remake, Stay with Me, also has an interesting producer.

Source | Mame with her Japanese fans

Orawan Vichayawannakul’s MeMindY is another BL author led production company that has enjoyed considerable success.

OP Pictures’ entry into BL genre has also been successful.

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Solutions

#1 Let’s start with the worst

BL as money laundering vehicle. It is probably the most obvious, sort of win-win until it isn’t. Sustainability depends how much skin the ruling class have in the game.

#2 State sponsorship

(or better yet, tax payer supported BL production)

State sponsorship is what Thailand has perfected.

source | 2023 seminar on "Beyond Borders: Exploring the Global Appeal and Diversity of Thailand's Boys' Love Contents" by 9 companies from Thailand organized by Department of International Trade Promotion under Thailand’s Ministry of Trade.

The eleven speakers, including an official from the Office of Commercial Affairs, Royal Thai Embassy in Japan, vigorously pitched partnerships with Japanese content companies [at the above-mentioned seminar.]

Also, several of the companies pitching at the seminar, such as Star Hunter Entertainment […] were plumping for BL not as a niche product but rather a core element of their corporate strategy.

Halo Productions representative Tewarat Supunnium [trumpeted] the vertical integration of his company, from talent representation to contents distribution.

source

Thai BL has been big hits in China, South Korea, Japan, India, Indonesia, the Philippines, and beyond, which has motivated Thailand’s government to ‘deploy Boys Love as its latest soft power weapon to promote the country on the global stage’. In an article published in The Nation, BL director, Bundit Sintanaparadee, explains how that affects production.

He pointed out that the international popularity of Thai shows can boost tourism and generate interest in the featured locations – a vital aspect of soft power. The government can facilitate this process by providing support and streamlining the bureaucratic obstacles to filming in attractive locations like Bangkok’s Chinatown district of Yaowarat.

Filming in iconic places such as Yaowarat can be costly and complicated due to the need to coordinate with multiple government agencies and pay location fees. Bundit said the government could simplify the process to benefit not just filmmakers but also tourist revenue in the locations.

Bundit also cautioned against a top-down approach to soft power, where the government dictates what represents Thailand on the world stage. He emphasises the need for industry professionals to have their say.

source

In a 2022 article, Bangkok Post explores the impact of BL on Thailand’s economy ‘as export products that can draw lucrative revenue streams and foster business opportunities in other areas, including tourism.’

[According to government estimates from 2021,] Thailand's Y content market was worth more than 1 billion baht... In June that year, the Department of International Trade Promotion held an online Y content business matching event to boost the industry, with the participation of 10 Thai content creators. More than 360 million baht was generated from the purchase of the Thai content, with the top three buyers coming from Japan, Taiwan and Vietnam.

Noppharnach Chaiyahwimhon, GMMTV's senior director of content production, said [that the] business ecosystem linked to Y Series in Thailand shows a growth of 30-40% per year. [He also said that] Y Series can also be a boon for other businesses, such as films, artist management and merchandise. [He mentioned] Y Series from Thailand [getting] translated into several languages [and one of their Y Series having received theatrical adaptation in South Korea.]

[According to] Kanokporn Prachayaset, chief commercial officer and country manager of WeTV Thailand, … Y Series from Thailand is one of the most popular content genres on its platform. [Half of all the BL content on the platform was Thai.] WeTV [was] sourcing Y Series from Asia as well as having its own WeTV original shows by working with various local production houses, such as GMMTV, TV Thunder, Dee Hup House, M Choice Studio and All This Entertainment. [She also highlighted the contribution of the fan base, which is] active in organising activities and campaigns for their idols.

Seksan Sripraiwan, director of the Tourism Authority of Thailand's (TAT) Tokyo office, said the TAT and the Royal Thai Embassy have actively promoted the country by using Thai entertainment [and that] Thai BL content is considered one of the most popular recent cultural exports to Japan. Japan's market for Thai BL is around 1 million viewers, of which 20,000-30,000 are heavily active on social media sites for renowned BL actors, led by Bright-Win and Krist-Singto. He said Japanese tour operators already offered tailor-made tour packages which contain elements related to BL TV series, such as shooting locations like universities, cafes, Wat Arun or the Amphawa floating market.

Kanokkittika Kritwutikon, director of the TAT Chengdu office, said Thai BL TV shows have gained popularity in China, such as the coming-of-age series "I Told Sunset About You", which helped drive tourists to Phuket, the main location of the story.

"Most Chinese BL fans are millennial females who can offer long-term support for their favourite actors," Mrs Kanokkittika said. [Recognizing the 3 million strong queer population of Chongqing,] she said the LGBT segment could be categorised as luxury travellers as they are high-income earners, live in key cities, and want to spend more for travel experiences.

source

Earlier this year Ministry of Commerce have partnered with Be On Cloud and Idol Factory to promote ‘Thai products, services, tourism, and culture by incorporating them seamlessly into’ their new series “Shine” and “Pin Phak” aka “The Loyal Pin” respectively.

“This will help create around 2 billion in value for Thailand’s economy,” said Commerce Minister Phumtham.

Deputy Prime Minister and Commerce Minister Phumtham Wechayachai and two actresses, Becky and Freen, witness the signing ceremony between the Ministry of Commerce and Idol Factory Co., Ltd. on February 28, 2024....

According to the Department of International Trade Promotion, the Thai movie and series sector and related industries will generate 8,000 million baht in exports by 2023. In 2024, it will likely reach 10,000 million baht, particularly in the Y-movie and Y-series, which are expected to expand in value from 1,000 million baht to 2,000 million baht as a result of the Ministry of Commerce’s proactive cooperation with the private sector.

source

The Thai government’s efforts are paying off.

Oramon Sapthaweetham, director-general of the Department of Business Development, revealed that the Boys’ Love series had helped revitalise the film production industry, generating substantial profits and extending economic benefits to allied sectors, such as advertising, leveraging actors as influencers, event organisation, and tourism. 

"Over the past 10 years, Thailand has produced over 177 Boys’ Love [series], continuously gaining popularity and expanding its customer base, eventually leading to exports to international markets," Oramon added.

The film production industry in Thailand is witnessing substantial growth. In the first four months of 2024, 56 new businesses were registered, marking a 12% increase from 2023. The total registered capital also saw a significant rise of 146.44% to 195.18 million baht. In 2023, the industry grew by 20% with 137 businesses and a capital of 258 million baht. The total revenue in 2022 was 12.895 billion baht, indicating a continuous growth trend.

source

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#3 Diversification

Ok, so this is based on my limited knowledge and imagination. Feel free to skip.

There are two production companies that I have ever been interested in - Bhavana Studios and Mammootty Kampany. Both of them have produced experimental Malayalam movies while managing to remain commercially successful. While is partially attributable to these companies being brands, I think their overall strategy of diversification have worked in their favour.

Mammootty Kampany could produce art-house movie Nanpakal Nerathu Mayakkam for award circuits and with no expectation of commercial performance by banking on their other production Kannur Squad which was action entertainer sure to bring in the big bucks. Their queer family drama Kaathal – The Core and neo-noir psychological thriller Rorschach did exceptionally well in the box office as well as garnered critical acclaim. Bhavana Studios has similar track record of their commercially successful projects kind of cross subsidizing their experimental and unique projects and lifting the heat off in case of flops.

Having production companies which are aspirational in their approach to BL while having the economics sorted out help where government support is not forth coming.

Censorship as No-thing

When sometime is truly censored, we wouldn’t know. Unless we ask. Here’s what Jooyin Saejang learned from asking.

Conclusion

I have a strong preference for live action adaptations that are willing to go the last mile in terms of sexual content, social critiques and addressing real-life issues. That’s the reason why the header image for this BL side blog is from Moothon (2019).

But realistically this isn’t always possible. And I prefer having more production companies offering variety. I don’t want them to sink under the weight of BL that didn’t do well commercially and me being left at the mercy of media conglomerates with seemingly bottomless funds and monopsony over BL authors, original works and the culture that creates them.

Also, there is queer content from Korean that is neither mainstream nor from fu-culture. Support those. Unfortunately, Cheers by Cheers 짠!하면 알 수 있어 has been removed from their YouTube channel which is now called Cheer Up. While the series is gone, there are interviews with English subtitles.

Love in the Big City

Love in the Big City, the series and the movie are based on Park Sang-young's novel of the same name that was published in 2019. In Korea, it sold over 100,000 copies. Ever since, it has been translated into 15 languages, including English. The English translation by Anton Hur was published in 2021. The book has been longlisted for the International Booker Prize in 2022 and the Dublin Literary Award in 2023.

The movie secured an investor early on. The film was produced by Showbox and Tale Farming (고래와유기농). Michigan Venture Capital, a key investor, was responsible for 2 billion won out of the net production cost of about 6 billion won. Plus M Entertainment, a subsidiary of the JoongAng Group took care of its distribution. (source)

State-sponsorship for Korean BL !

The series, on the other hand, faced difficulty attracting investment as well as had trouble finding OTT platforms willing to air the show. It was co-produced by MerryChristmas, a subsidiary of WYSIWYG Studio' a KOSDAQ-listed company, along with Big Stone Studio. Mbrella Films provided production services in Thailand. They have received the state-support through Korea Creative Content Agency under Ministry of Culture, Sports and Tourism amounting to 3 billion won as production costs support aimed at strengthening the global competitiveness of K-content through OTT.

Finally, TVING, a platform that has aired multiple BL projects previously (such as Unintentional Love Story, Jazz for Two, To My Star 2, The Eighth Sense and High School Return of a Gangster), aired the series in South Korea and the streaming platform Rakuten Viki promoted it as a BL.

An iconic scene from bonus chapter 2 of The New Employee aka The New Recruit manhwa adaptation (web novel written by Moscareto and illustrated by Zec) ahead that didn't make it into the live action adaptation.

Gong comes home to find su in a sexy position at the doorway, fingering himself according to gong's instructions over phone.

[scarefox]

The world is in shambles but at least we have a shit ton of amazing queer dramas in all kinds of flavors 😌

[queershippingpolls]

Do you ship them?