#Baelon son of daemon

[goodqueenaly]

Thank you for the great answer about if Daemon and Laena’s “Baelon” lived! Now, I’m wondering, post-Dance would some people want “Baelon” to be king instead of Aegon 3? In the OTL, A3 was the heir according to the Blacks and Greens, as Rhaenyra’s oldest living son and the most senior male-line descendant (Daemon’s son). But here, Baelon is Daemon’s oldest son, not A3. Would some hardcore mens-only-succession people want Baelon to be king over his younger half-brother?

I think the choice would probably still have been Aegon the Younger. While it certainly did not hurt the succession argument of the young prince, soon to be Aegon III IOTL, that he was the most senior (and indeed, after the death of Aegon II, the supposedly only surviving) male male-line claimant at the end of the Dance, Gyldayn’s repeated reference to Aegon the Younger as “Rhaenyra’s son” suggests to me that the real strength of his, Aegon’s, claim was in his connection to the would-be queen of the black faction. Daemon’s son by Laena, had he survived, might have been slightly older than his half-brother/cousin, but he would never have enjoyed being acknowledged as a son of the black faction’s claimant, and indeed her heir at the very end of the war (and her life). If the aim of Corlys and his faction at the end of the Dance was to bind up the wounds of the war by giving the crown to Rhaenyra’s son, soon to be married to Aegon II’s daughter, it might have seemed difficult to imagine how the son of the controversial late prince consort of the black faction would have helped appeal to the survivors of both factions, and resorte the realm to peace and stability.

Of course, none of this is to say that this Prince Baelon, had he lived, would not have had strong feelings about his own claim to the crown, nor indeed that his father would not have had such opinions himself. Daemon certainly showed a desire to be king on the Iron Throne, and may well have wanted a son to succeed him in this ambition. Would he have encouraged his elder son to think of himself as an heir, even over Aegon the Younger? Would young Baelon have been as stalwart as his father had been, in asserting his own claim to the throne as the most senior male-line male prince?

(And, obviously, all of this is assuming no changes to OTL. Would Daemon, with a legitimate son in hand, have still had Laenor murdered in order to marry Rhaenyra? Would Daemon and his son have acted any differently during the course of the Dance? Would Baelon have been sent away with Aegon and Viserys, and if so, would Baelon have been captured like Viserys or flown away like Aegon, or suffered some other fate?)

[gotham-at-nightfall]

Valyrian Couples: Part I

Aegon I Targaryen & Rhaenys Targaryen

Aenys I Targaryen & Alyssa Velaryon

Aegon (son of Aenys) Targaryen & Rhaena Targaryen

Jaehaerys I Targaryen & Alysanne Targaryen

Baelon (son of Jaehaerys) Targaryen & Alyssa Targaryen

Viserys I Targaryen & Aemma Arryn

Rhaenyra Targaryen & Daemon Targaryen

Aegon III Targaryen and Daenaera Velaryon

Viserys II Targaryen and Larra Rogare

Daeron I Targaryen, Daena Targaryen and Baelor I Targaryen

By JotaSaraiva

PART II

[syndrossi]

Re: Jon telling Viserys about the hair dye incidents:

“Why did you not tell me?” “I did not mean to tell him,” Jon said flatly, knuckles sharp as he gripped his inkpot. “He upset me.” Perhaps he should have been angered on his son’s behalf, but instead the answer evoked a swell of relief and commiseration. Viserys overstepping was nearly an expectation, but it had been more upsetting to think that his son had actively sought to confide in him.

[thetinksessays]

The Line Of Succession

….and how it proves Aegon II is the rightful heir.

Introduction

So I was listening to Fire and Blood and there’s a couple of interesting lines in its first few chapters regarding succession.

‘While many still debated whether Prince Maegor or his niece, Rhaena, should have precedence in the order of succession, it seemed beyond question that Aegon would follow his father, Aenys, just as Aenys would follow Aegon.’

Page 56, The Sons of the Dragon, Fire and Blood.

‘Only Grand Maester Gawen dared object. By all the laws of inheritance, laws that the Conqueror himself had affirmed after the conquest, the throne should pass to King Aenys’ son Aegon, the aged maester said.’

Page 74, The Sons of the Dragon, Fire and Blood.

The Initial Line of Succession

The initial succession is clear, and was indicated long before Aegon I affirmed the succession laws. It was when it was decided that Aegon, despite being the middle sibling, would be the main ruler. This set the precedent that male heirs come before female heirs, regardless of birth order.

Aegon’s heir was his eldest son Aenys, and in turn Aenys’ heir was his eldest son Aegon. But while Aenys was the elder of Aegon I’s two children, Aegon was not the eldest of Aenys’ children. Aenys’ first child was his daughter, Rhaena. Again, setting the precedent that sons inherit before elder daughters.

But here’s where it starts getting messy. Because Aegon didn’t inherit the throne; he was usurped by Maegor, Aenys’ younger brother. Interestingly, Maegor named his great niece Aerea his heir. Aerea was Aegon’s daughter, and would have been the rightful heir if Aegon had inherited the throne as the laws dictated.

Maegor, by the way, had very legitimate reasons for usurping. Thanks to Aenys’ insistence on marrying his son and daughter together, the Faith was up in arms and had declared that any children they produced were abominations. There was no way anyone in Westeros would accept Aegon as King, and being as he was only 16 and had no dragon, he had no way of taming the rebellions and riots breaking out across Westeros. Maegor, on the other hand, rode Balerion the Black Dread and wielded Blackfyre. He was easily able to squash the Faith’s armed branches.

None of Maegor’s wives produced any living children, so he had to name someone else his heir. Aenys had five surviving children: Rhaena, Aegon, Viserys, Jaehaerys and Alysanne. Aegon was killed in battle so he couldn’t be Maegor’s heir. Jaehaerys and Alysanne were hidden away and protected by their mother, so Maegor couldn’t name them either.

His options were Rhaena, Viserys or one of Rhaena and Aegon’s twin daughters (it’s unclear who the older twin was) Aerea and Rhaella. Despite Viserys being held as a hostage by Maegor, he chose Aerea. He still decided to follow succession laws even though he didn’t have to.

Jaehaerys And The Law

However, after Maegor’s death, his nephew Jaehaerys I became King. This was because Aerea was only six years old, and was a rather timid and shy child, so even her mother said she wasn’t a good fit for the throne. But this is going against the succession laws. And it wouldn’t be the last time Jaehaerys did that.

Jaehaerys’ first heir was his eldest son, Aemon. Queen Alysanne wanted their eldest child, Daenerys, to be the heir but Jaehaerys refused. This is the right choice, because the laws are clear that sons inherit before daughters, and not even the King can defy the laws.

Aemon died long before Jaehaerys, and his daughter Rhaenys should have been the next heir, but Jaehaerys instead chose his second son, Baelon. Many people blame this on sexism, but I think it’s more complicated than that. Rhaenys was married to Corlys Velaryon, an ambitious man. Her children weren’t Targaryens; they were Velaryons. Making her the heir meant the throne passing from House Targaryen to House Velaryon. Not to mention, Rhaenys was 16 with no experience while Baelon was 35 and had experience.

It’s unclear if this goes against the succession laws. The quote above regarding Maegor and Rhaena suggests the laws are unclear if a brother comes before a daughter. So it’s uncertain if Rhaenys should have inherited, because she was Aemon’s daughter, or if Baelon was the rightful heir as he was Jaehaerys’ son.

Viserys And The Dance

After Baelon’s death, the Great Council chose Viserys I as the next heir. It is unclear where the laws stand on this. As Baelon’s eldest son, he was unquestionably his heir but, given it was unclear if Baelon was the lawful heir, that may not mean anything. It does, however, set the precedent of male heirs over any female heirs.

Now, here’s where we come to Rhaenyra and Aegon II. There’s some ambiguity when it comes to a brother and a daughter of the king, but not if it’s between a son and a daughter.

There the laws are clear. Aegon II, as Viserys’ eldest trueborn son, is his rightful heir. Rhaenyra has no claim to the throne while Aegon II, Aemond, Daeron, Jaehaerys and Maelor are alive.

After looking over the succession prior to Viserys, we can establish that the Targaryens followed the law of sons before daughters, but there’s some question of if daughters come before uncles. Therefore, succession following his death could go two ways.

It’s either Aegon II, Jaehaerys, Maelor, Jaehaera, Aemond, Daeron, Rhaenyra, Aegon III, Viserys II, Helaena, Daemon or Aegon II, Jaehaerys, Maelor, Aemond, Daeron, Daemon, Aegon III, Viserys II, Daemon, Helaena, Jaehaera.

(As Jacaerys, Lucerys and Joffrey are bastards, they cannot claim the throne and are not in the line of succession).

Regardless, Rhaenyra is not the rightful heir and is actually quite far down the line of succession. She, not Aegon, is the usurper and unlike Maegor, she has no good reasons to usurp the throne.

TLDR: Targaryen Royal succession follows the law, there’s an area of ambiguity over whether a brother or a daughter inherits but no ambiguity regarding sons over daughters, and Rhaenyra is a usurper with no good reason for doing so, making her worse than Maegor in that regard.

[midnight--sadness]

i love the way that a dragon's coloring is sometimes connected to its rider's family.

meraxes had silver scales and was ridden by rhaenys. rhaenys' son aenys had a dragon named quicksilver, and though we don't know her coloring, given her name and her pale white fire, it is probably silver as well. aenys' daughter alysanne had silverwing, described as a silvery dragon.

three generations of rulers who had silver she-dragons.

jaehaerys i rode vermithor, the bronze fury, and his son baelon the brave rode vhagar, who was described as bronze.

aemon and alyssa, brother and sister, both rode red dragons, caraxes and meleys, respectively.

rhaenyra has the yellow-gold syrax, and her son lucerys who rides arrax, described as having yellow fire and gold eyes and crest.

(could even connect this to aegon ii's sunfyre, who is golden and has pink membranes, matching to rhaenys' meleys and rhaena's morning, who is fully pink.)

helaena and daeron, also brother and sister, rode dreamfyre and tessarion, both blue dragons (although in different shades).

although we dont know his coloring, stormcloud, based on his name, was probably (dark) grey, which would match with the (light) grey color of seasmoke, who belonged to laenor, aegon iii's stepfather.

and of course, there is the connection between the conquerors' dragons balerion, meraxes and vhagar with dany's children drogon, viserion and rhaegal.

[viihe]

“it's a pity, don't you think, that you never knew your mother?”

[acewithapencil]

Lucerys meeting his loved ones in the afterlife ❤️🥲

[translannisters]

Look the AO3/Tumblr brain trust did shape my perception of this and I'm not going to pretend it didn't. But also as generally unenthusiastic about Fire & Blood as I am I do think understanding whatever the fuck Baelon and Alyssa had going on is crucial to understanding what the fuck Daemon had going on with regards to his brother and his niece. You are NOT going to get a normal conceptualization of yourself and your family relationships when you grow up being considered the Boy Version of your mother whose relationship with your father seems to have gone down in the popular consciousness as the absolute pinnacle of idealized Targaryen incest. There's a chilling dissonance to F&B's recounting of Alyssa's story not least in that we'll never know how she actually felt about her brother beyond the anecdotes specifically told to justify their arranged marriage - but we have a much better idea of how Daemon felt about his brother and what it led to (and not to extrapolate too much but. I think we also have a decent idea of what it did to Daemon to be unable to fulfill the - horrific - duty prescribed to the mother he took after because of his gender! And certainly of what it did to Viserys to grow up with "sisterwife who happily dies for you in the birthing bed because she can't die for you on the battlefield" as the romantic duty owed to him as his birthright!)

[sarcasticsweetlara]

I'm curious, why do you think Rhaenyra would name one of her kids "Baelon"? She has five male children and doesn't. Not even a variation is considered, even with Visenya. The name was taken by her dead younger brother. It's in use (sort of) by Baela - we've got no clue what Rhaenyra's relationship was like with her grandfather. What made you come to this conclusion? ☺️

Hi!

I'm glad to see someone took this interest.

Well, I think Rhaenyra sadly in what her first marriage to Laenor was Rhaenyra sadly didn't have the opportunity to name her children. Corlys gave her first two sons Velaryon names to emphasize their identity and due to them looking the way they did as they were not Laenor's sons Rhaenyra had to give in because she could not afford her children being seen as nothing less.

When it came to Joffrey V's birth we see nothing about Rhaenyra's opinion in the book, again because of how Joffrey looked and the one who got his way was Laenor because Corlys only saw him as a spare, neither the heir to the Iron Throne nor the Driftwood Throne, and Laenor named him after the love of his life Joffrey Lonmmouth who had been tragically murdered.

I believe that if not for Laenor already having chosen to name one of the children after his deceased lover then Rhaenyra would have been finally able to have a say about the names of her children. Show!Rhaenyra expressed her displeasure at not being able to name her own children (it was among the only things the show did well).

In the tale of The Princess And The Queen and in asoiaf as a whole we see how important than names are especially when they are connected to a loved one.

Baela is named after her paternal grandfather, and Rhaena is like a mix of Rhaenyra and Laena who were mentioned having been incredibly close (❤️); if it would have been to honor her maternal grandmother then it would have been Rhaenys (and I take the example of Rhaena TQITW/E whose name had to be neutral for her grandmother and great-aunt to calm down Visenya over Maegor not having a Valyrian wife and being displaced as heir), and Laena's son would probably have been named after his great-grandfather Aemon the Pale Prince; if Joffrey Lonmouth had not died then Joffrey would have received a Velaryon name (out of love for Laena) or a Targaryen name.

Rhaenyra was finally able to name her children when it was her children with Daemon, and in this case Rhaenyra gives them names important to her: Aegon the Younger was named after her uncle Aegon, for Aegon the Uncrowned, and to reclaim the name for Team Black; then Rhaenyra names her second son with Daemon after her father, yes, Viserys I may have failed her a lot of times but Viserys I was still her father and Rhaenyra loved him with all her heart.

And when it came to baby Visenya, we all know Rhaenyra always admired Queen Visenya and that she always wanted a daughter of her own.

And if Rhaenyra kept having children then eventually one would have been named Baelon after both her baby brother and her grandfather, and now that the political names of kings and a queen had been used, she could name a son after both Baelon the Brave and Baelon her full-blooded brother.

[maegalkarven]

The "They used to tease me because I was different" genuinely made me laugh bc like.

Aemond...sweetie. You were not different. Your brother was a twat and exposed your insecurities, dragging others into it, but you were NOT different.

Viserys claimed a dragon. (who then died I believe solely from embarrassment bc...Duh. it's Viserys we're talking about)

Rhaenys CLAIMED a dragon. Daemon CLAIMED a dragon. Laena CLAIMED a dragon. Shit, even Helaena ends up CLAIMING a dragon.

And you know what it means???That in their youth they DID NOT have a dragon. They did not have a dragon egg or the egg did not hatch. Aemond, you were NOT different.

And I blame mostly Viserys because how hard was that to explain it to a child?!

[allyriadayne]

i understand aegon and viserys's existence is a threat to jace just based on the fact they're legitimitet and he isn't but i find all the discourse around the fandom about there inevitably being a succession war/crisis between them a bit silly since we know aegon and viserys weren't interested in being king. aegon was famously a very reluctant king only getting the throne as a child because there was literally nobody else and viserys was perfectly content rulling as hand without the title. i'm just not getting usurper vibes from them either in a scenario where jace succeeds rhaenyra after a peaceful reign or in a jace survives the dance scenario. the next generation after them however is a different disscusion.

i agree with you. it doesn't seen likely aegon and viserys would raise banners to usurp jace, esp in an scenario where they are the only surviving sons of rhaenyra after the dance. if anything it'll make them closer. i also think jace seeing all the threats to his crown would do something to curtail the influence his brothers might have in court, he can trust /them/ but not greedy advisors whispering in their ears. it's honestly a tricky situation where there is no winner because he either forces his brothers into celibate orders or insults them by marrying them into very minor houses without much power. and /those/ children will be assimilated into the main line asap.

and the next generation....assuming viserys marries larra and has aegon/naerys/aemon. tricky! esp if you consider the theory 4egon poisoned viserys and that the rogares might want more control and influence in court.

[asongofgoldenfireandblackblood]

A year into the reign of Westeros’ first Ruling-Queen, New alliances are forged in a nascent golden age against the rising winter winds, The future belongs to those with the vision to shape it...what will be your legacy in the age to come?

We are a No-Dance!Fire and Blood and House of The Dragon AU and politics, family, and court-drama focused RP. Baelon is especially wanted by his older brother, Prince Joffrey Velaryon, and best friend and betrothed, Myranda “Minnie” Lannister, as well as by Queen Rhaenyra, King-Consort Daemon, Crown Prince Jacaerys, Crown Princess Baela, Prince Lucerys Velaryon, Princess Rhaena, Prince Aegon III, Prince Viserys II, Princess Visenya, Princess Rhaenys Targaryen-Velaryon, Lord-Commander Steffon Darklyn, Lady Rowena Grafton, and Ser Harrold “Harry” Penrose

Read Baelon's Biography and explore House Targaryen of King's Landing, check out our Main Site, our Most Wanted page, and our Connections, DM us with any questions, then send A Raven to Apply, and join our Discord!!

Nav — Plot — Wanted — Houses — Apply — Discord

[gotham-at-nightfall]

Daemon meets Caraxes

By Acker

[thetinksessays]

In Defense Of Jaehaerys I

Note: I know this will be controversial. I simply ask that responses remain civil. Any insults or other nastiness will be met with a block.

Introduction

The common fandom interpretation of Jaehaerys I is that while he was a good king, he was a pretty bad father and a misogynist who refused to allow any women to sit the Iron Throne. I disagree. I don’t think Jaehaerys was any more misogynistic than any other Westerosi, and actually was somewhat less misogynistic and more progressive than most. Allow me to explain before you crucify me.

Rhaena, Aerea and Rhaella

The first charge of misogyny often laid at Jaehaerys’ feet is his usurpation of his older sister Rhaena and/or her daughters. But there’s more to this than just their gender. To start off with, it is unclear who, exactly, is the rightful heir. Is it Aerea, the elder daughter of Aegon the Uncrowned and named heir of the previous king, Maegor? Or is it Jaehaerys, the only surviving son of the previous legitimate king, Aenys?

Arguments can be made for either.

Then there’s their respective ages. Jaehaerys is fourteen, two years off his majority, whereas Aerea is only six years old and would need a regent for the next ten years. There are many problems that come with a regency- just look at Aegon III’s, which only lasted five years, or Joffrey and Tommen’s regencies currently happening in the main series- therefore the claimant who is only two years away from no longer needing a regent is far more desirable that the one who would need a regent for a decade.

Rhaena argued that her daughter was not fit to rule due to her timid nature. Clearly she did not feel slighted by Jaehaerys taking the throne, at least initially, though she did become bitter later, but clearly Rhaena was not mentally well at the time. It is unfair to use Aerea’s nature against her claiming the throne, as many Kings have had far worse natures, but it is a valid reason.

Alysanne

Jaehaerys is accused of being misogynistic in regards to his relationship with his wife, the Good Queen Alysanne. I find this ludicrous. There are multiple laws and ideas that Alysanne championed that were passed- like abolishing the right of the first night, the widow’s law, drinking fountains for the poor of King’s Landing, giving more land to the Night’s Watch and more- so clearly Jaehaerys listened to her and respected her intelligence and ideas.

Some claim that Jaehaerys mistreated Alysanne by forcing her to have so many babies. Setting aside that the only contraceptive mentioned in the series, moon tea, is unlikely to work one hundred percent of time and is quite dangerous to take (Lysa nearly died from it), there is no indication that Alysanne was forced into any of her pregnancies, or that Jaehaerys is the type of person to force his wife to do just about anything.

Daenerys

Jaehaerys and Alysanne’s first surviving child (they had a son named Aegon who died three days after his birth) was a daughter named Daenerys. She was Jaehaerys’ heir until the birth of Aemon, two years later. Alysanne argued that Daenerys should have remained the heir, as their oldest child. But this ignores the law of succession and established precedent (Aegon the Uncrowned being heir over his older sister Rhaena) and would have made Jaehaerys look very hypocritical, considering he took the throne over his older sister and her daughters.

He planned for Daenerys to be queen anyway, as he intended for her to marry Aemon. Unfortunately, Daenerys died of the Shivers when she was five, ending Alysanne’s issue over heirship, at least for some time.

Daella

Many argue that Jaehaerys was cruel to force Daella to marry when she wasn’t ready for it. Alysanne blamed him for her death in childbirth, saying that she was too young. This is odd, as Daella was five years older than Alysanne was when she was wed and three years older than Alysanne was when she had her first child.

Jaehaerys was impatient with Daella. But I don’t think he was cruel. Remember, every noblewoman is expected to marry; that’s the societal norm, and Jaehaerys comes from a family background of young marriage. He was 16 and Alysanne was 13 when they wed. Aegon the Uncrowned was 15 and Rhaena was 18 when they wed. Aenys and Alyssa were both 15. Maegor was 13 when he wed 23 year old Ceryse Hightower (…yikes.). Aemon was 15 and Jocelyn was 16 when they wed. Baelon was 18 and Alyssa was 15 when they wed.

Yes, Daella was disabled, but it is ridiculous to expect Jaehaerys to understand that. Westeros is a pseudo-medieval society; their understanding of disabilities, especially mental disabilities, is limited.

Considering that Daella was 18 and got to pick who she married, she actually got a much better deal than many other noblewomen.

Saera

This is going to be controversial.

I am not going to argue that there was no misogyny involved in Jaehaerys’ handling of Saera, or that he handled it well. I am, however, going to point out that it was not the one sided, Jaehaerys being abusive, situation so many like to paint it as.

So what actually happened? Saera had three male suitors, Lord Roy Connington, Ser Jonah Mooton and Ser Braxton Beesbury. Jaehaerys considered all three promising candidates for Saera’s hand, so he clearly paid attention to who she liked and wanted to make sure she married someone she wanted to be with.

Unfortunately, one day the three men were caught tormenting a fool named Tom Turnip- described as a simpleton, therefore likely mentally disabled- in a brothel. Mooton admitted it was Saera’s idea, but none of the three said any more about Saera. Her two best friends, Perianne Moore and Alys Turnberry, were questioned and they admitted that the three girls had practiced kissing together, then had gotten the men to practice kissing with them.

It had, of course, escalated to more than that. Perianne claimed it was Braxton Beesbury who slept with all of them. Alys turned out to be pregnant. When Saera was questioned about this, she started off denying it, then admitted it and worse, saying that all three men believed they had taken her maidenhead but they were ‘silly fools’, implying someone else had taken her maidenhead long before this.

Saera declared that she would be married but couldn’t decide between the three, suggesting she marry all of them and comparing herself to Maegor the Cruel. This infuriated Jaehaerys, who very understandably had a shit ton of trauma about Maegor and did not appreciate him being brought up so flippantly.

Saera was confined to her bedchamber. Jaehaerys was going to reconcile with her, and leave this disagreement there, but she broke out and tried to take a dragon, a very dangerous thing to do. She was confined to a tower cell.

Jaehaerys ordered Ser Braxton be punished by having his tongue and nose cut off and being gelded. Braxton chose a trial by combat and arrogantly asked which old man would fight him. The King replied ‘this old man’ and did indeed fight and kill Braxton.

It is important to note that Braxton fully intended to injure or kill Jaehaerys, so blaming Jaehaerys for killing him is unfair.

Saera was to join her sister in Oldtown for a time, though it is noted that it would not have been permanent- Barth said that Jaehaerys would have relented, a sentiment that is repeated throughout the story of Saera.

But she chose to go to Lys instead.

To sum up: Saera chose to ignore societal expectations and sleep around, despite knowing that both she and her lovers would be punished if caught, when they were caught she initially refused to take responsibility then, instead of being apologetic or accepting that she’d done wrong, she was arrogant and rude and invoked her father’s trauma by bringing up Maegor, something she had to know would hurt and anger him. Then, she kept making the situation worse by attempting to escape her punishment.

Jaehaerys overreacted. But Beesbury and the two other men did sleep with three young women. By today’s standards they did nothing wrong but by Westerosi standards, they ruined the reputations of the three girls, ruined their chances of a decent marriage (except for Saera, who was still a princess) and left Alys Turnberry with a bastard child.

It’s worth noting, by the way, that Jonah Mooton agreed to marry Perianne and therefore wasn’t punished, and Roy Connington had the same opportunity with Alys, but refused as he didn’t believe her child was his, even though the babe had red hair. He was offered two choices: the Wall or exile. He chose exile in Essos.

The harsh judgement against Jaehaerys here is another situation of fans applying modern standards to a pseudo-medieval society with very different standards then criticising characters for behaving in ways that match up to those very different standards but go against modern standards. It’s a large problem in the fandom.

 Rhaenys

We come to the biggest charge of misogyny made against Jaehaerys. His decision to make Baelon his heir over Rhaenys. But was it just because she was a woman? While I don’t deny that likely played a role, I think it was far more complicated than just about gender.

First, there’s the age issue. Rhaenys was sixteen, with very little experience, political, life or otherwise. Baelon was thirty five and had battle experience, life experience and political experience.

Then there’s the Corlys/Velaryon issue. Corlys was an ambitious man and no doubt he would have been the main power behind the throne if Rhaenys was crowned. There is also no doubt that he would have insisted their children retain the Velaryon surname, therefore ending the Targaryen dynasty and beginning the Velaryon dynasty, a situation Jaehaerys would have wished to avoid.

Third and finally, there is a lesser issue but one that I would have considered if I was in Jaehaerys’ place. Rhaenys was pregnant when Aemon died and Jaehaerys decided who was to be his heir. There was a decent chance she would die in the birthing bed; what would be the point of naming her heir only for her to die a few months later and heirship to pass to Baelon anyway?

I think that played a role because Jaehaerys was able to decide by himself in 92 AC, but nine years later he couldn’t decide and called the Great Council. The only factor that had changed was that Rhaenys was not pregnant. She and Viserys were only three years apart and were at a similar level of experience. So why, then, if Jaehaerys was such a raving misogynist who didn’t want a woman on the throne, didn’t he just simply pick Viserys? Why call the council?

Because he genuinely couldn’t decide. Rhaenys was still married to Corlys and their children had Velaryon surnames, so that would be the death of the Targaryen dynasty. Viserys was weak willed and indecisive and his heirs at the time were either his violent, impetuous brother or his four year old daughter, neither great options.

Conclusion

I think the perception of Jaehaerys is a big example of what I mentioned earlier in this essay, the tendency of this fandom to judge characters by modern standards that simply don’t apply to the pseudo-medieval world of Westeros.

It irritates me to no end when I see this happening in the fandom, because it’s just plain stupid. Modern standards do not apply to Westeros, end of, and therefore the characters should not be judged by them. They should be judged by Westerosi standards.

Jaehaerys was not a raving misogynist nor was he an abusive father. As much as he had issues with Saera and to a far lesser extent Daella, he is never mentioned to have had any conflict with his other daughters, Alyssa, Viserra (except for agreeing to a betrothal Alysanne proposed that Viserra disliked) , Maegelle and Gael.

There are many Targaryen Kings who were abusive or otherwise bad fathers. Jaehaerys is not one of them.

[midnight--sadness]

im sorry but why did i just realize that jace, luke and joff are the great-grandsons of both aemon AND baelon and alyssa

in the same way that baela and rhaena are the granddaughters of baelon and alyssa AND the great-granddaughters of aemon

[sarcasticsweetlara]

My headcanon is that Joffrey would be named Baelon under these circumstances, and Laena's son would be named Aemon - as he was born after Joff .

Modernau where the Targaryens are a mafia but make it a crime comedy:

Baelon lived became head of the Mafia when Jaehaerys croaked, made both Rhaenys and Viserys his co-heirs. Aemon, Alyssa, Aemma, any Targaryen or family member who died in unclear ways, were all killed by the Hightowers who want to supplant the Targaryens as the Boses of the Mafia. Baelon married Daemon to both Laena and Rhaenyra as both girls are his heirs oldest children, and he wants to keep the power in the family(something he believes his father should have done instead of attempting to marry his youngest children off to other families leading to either their deaths ofmr estrangement, when he became boss he called Saera back), betweenthe three of them they have 9 children(Jace, Luke, Baela, Rhaena, Joffrey, Baelon II, Aegon III, Viserys II, and Visenya). After Aemma's death, Viserys still marries Alicent(despite everyone being against it) and still has four children with her.

Since Viserys went against his orders, Baelon removed him and his children from Alicent from the mafia succecion and gave the position of heir to Rhaenyra. When Baelon eventually retires, it's Rhaenys, Laena, and Rhaenyra who are in charge and decide to continue Baelons's plans for the Hightowers.

They begin by destroying all business deals the Hightowers have, bringing their fortune down as they try their best to keep everything afloat. When realizing that with their businesses are being destroyed, they try to find a way to put one of Alicent's children at the helm of the Mafia by marrying either Baela or Jace. Unfortunately(for the Hightowers, that is), Rhaenyra and Laena had anticipated this, so they betrothed Jace and Baela.

But it wouldn't be me if I didn't add a splash of JaceLuke and Baena, so while Jace and Baela are engaged, they both are having a relationship behind everyone's back with their beloved brother/sister(except Laena, Daemon, Laenor, Baelon, and the R's know;they have walked in on them so many times). They make it game to be as affectinate/inappropriate in front of the Hightowers as they can be, Daemon is so proud.

Ps: if anyone wants to write this let me know