#Ismarus

[specialagentartemis]

Events in the Odyssey, ranked by how often they show up in retellings and adaptations

I have read, watched, and listened to many an Odyssey retelling in my day (my day = the last month or so) and I have noticed some Patterns.

Iconic Odyssey Momence™

These are the defining episodes of the Odyssey. Every adaptation of the Odyssey HAS to have:

The lotus-eaters

The Cyclops

Poseidon is Angery

The sirens

Scylla and Charybdis

Mix-n-Match

If there is a little bit more time, a little bit more dedication to faithfulness, or a little bit more mature target audience, these are the important events that fill out the narrative:

Circe

Calypso

the bag of winds

Penelope weaves the shroud

the journey to the underworld

Odysseus returns home and murders the suitors

the Trojan Horse, if the reteller remembers that that story was actually relayed in the Odyssey

Deep Cuts

Really only the completionists include these:

Athena hangs out with Telemachus

Nausicaä

the men eat the sacred cattle of Helios (this is such an important moment in the poem and comes up in adaptations weirdly rarely)

Telemachus dicks around in Sparta

Literally nobody ever includes these

I had no idea these were a thing until I started reading the Odyssey:

raiding the Ciconeans on Ismarus

the Laestrygonians

Telemachus dicks around in Pylos

[epicthemusicalstuff]

POSSIBLE CUT SONG ALBUM?!

(I know I’m a few days late posting this, but we are going to pretend I did this in a timely manner)

JAY POSTED A VIDEO TALKING ABOUT THE POSSIBILITY OF RELEASING CUT SONGS!

Which cut song would you like to hear the most (Ismarus, Man of the House, Olive Tree, Let Me Your Light- I need them all!!!)

[nikoisme]

My bet is that we'll hear Polites in The Underworld after the line "I keep thinking of the infant from that night", because in the cut song Ismarus, Polites approaches Odysseus right after that line

[greekmythcomix]

The essay question most likely to be asked on Odysseus is ‘how good a leader is Odysseus’ or ‘how responsible for his men is Odysseus’ and the answer, based on the text, is *always* ‘not very’

Here is a Basic Essay plan:

~FOR his being a good leader /responsible:

- tries to get them to leave Ismarus after attacking Cicones

- gets his men back from the Lotus-Eaters, using force in their best interests

- makes stops to take on food and water and ensures crews are well fed, so much so they vote him extra in thanks

- saves his remaining men from Polyphemus by clever thinking and action

- always shares food and loot equally with his men

- after several search parties come to sticky ends, he puts himself into the party and draws lots for fairness

- refuses to abandon his crew to Circe’s magic

- follows Hermes’ instructions to ensure his men are saved from being pigs (yes technically this means sleeping with Circe too)

- chooses not to tell his crew about the dangers of Scylla because he thinks it will cause unnecessary panic

- does tell them not to eat Hyperion’s cattle and tries to prevent them all from dying by begging help from the gods

- gives motivational speeches to try and improve morale (“my friends! We are utterly lost!” 😂)

- can carry *really* heavy stags on his own😉

- is such a responsible leader he attempts to stay awake for days on end to steer them home, and his men only make incredibly bad decisions (opening bag of winds, killing Hyperion’s cattle) when he’s not there to stop them

~AGAINST his being a good leader/being responsible:

- even though he tries to get his crews to leave Ismarus, they refuse, essentially mutinying, and he lets them = questionable authority

- puts his men unnecessarily in danger by insisting on exploring Polyphemus’ island even though they’ve already taken on food and water and even though he has ‘a bad feeling about it’, because their *might* be guest gifts, thus kudos, in it for him

- continues to put his crew in danger by revealing their location having escaped from blinded Polyphemus in order to claim kudos from having been the one to blind him

- continues to put his crews in danger by shouting out *again*, after they’ve narrowly escaped being sunk the first time, in order to further insult the cyclops, resulting in a curse that ends all their lives despite his men *begging* him to shut up

- puts his own life in danger by insisting on hearing the sirens, thus endangering his crew by removing their leader and putting them in the difficult position of refusing his orders (when he begs to be untied)

- doesn’t tell them what’s in the bag from Aeolus… although they should probably assume he’d share it with them if it was loot, because he has set a precedent for always doing that, by not telling them he creates confusion, leading to their mistake of opening it

- doesn’t stop the rest of the ships from entering the harbour at Telepylos, even though he moors outside = again questionable authority

- abandons 11 ships to the Laestrygonians because he cannot save them (ok he didn’t know they were monster cannibals but still, responsibility)

- chooses a more dangerous route when given a choice by Circe, because Jason’s already ‘done’ the Clashing Rocks and Scylla & Charybdis are unclaimed = more kudos for him again, adding to his personal kleos

- fails to prepare his crew for the dangers of Scylla & Charybdis instead choosing to sacrifice some of their lives for his and the rest of the crew’s (return to in Evaluation)

- absents himself at the crucial moment of their desperation in Hyperion’s island, ostensibly to pray for help, but knowing what Eurylochus is likely to do ie: go against his orders and kill the forbidden cattle

(If I’ve missed out some points I may add more later)

~EVALUATION

- although he can’t possibly be expected to know what’s coming (eg: Laestrygonians being monster cannibals), perhaps he should have taken more stock of the way things were going

- arguably, sacrificing some lives for the majority is one of those horribly difficult decisions of leadership, so this might even be admirable (?)

- he does question every decision he makes in order to choose what he considers to be the best course of action…

- …unless if it involves his own kudos, which is his priority

~CONCLUSION

- although he is not without leadership ability, Odysseus arguably makes too many decisions in his own favour, and is directly responsible for the loss of (12 ships x c.50crew each) c.600men, plus uncounted enslaved people from Troy

- and whereas some decisions made by his crew/men can be blamed for events (not leaving Ismarus, opening Aeolus’ bag, killing Hyperion’s cattle), that Odysseus doesn’t/can’t stop them suggests a lack of leadership on his part and/or a lack of trust in him from his men, and, on these events, we *only have Odysseus’s word for it*, as the sole survivor and narrator of these books, which are being narrated for the dual purpose of entertaining the Phaeacians and gaining sympathy from them so that they will help him get home and this is potentially an unreliable source that, like Odysseus himself*, simply cannot be trusted.

*due to his portrayal in every other literary text containing him as a character

I should end this by saying I LOVE Odysseus as a character. He is ‘meaty’, meaning there’s so much that can be discussed when it comes to him. If anything, he’s an annoyingly enjoyable antihero, like Milton’s Satan, or Shakespeare’s Richard III. Though he’s not a tragic hero and is only a ‘hero’ by Ancient Greek terms, *not* modern:

https://youtu.be/rXTecz3PN18

[friendlyneighborhoodtrickster]

not me spiraling over the fact that Jorge brought back lyrics from Ismarus for the Underworld it's not like that wasn't painful enough in the early draft version already

this is... fine (:

[yoshiintheweb]

With special regards to @fantasyfunsstuff who I promised this.

A Full List of songs that doesn't made it to the concept album of Epic the Musical.

Ismarus [there's the cool back and thought between Odysseus and Eurymachus] - Cut entirely

Your Light [you know that one everyone know that one]- Replaced with Open Arms

Man of the House [a backstory of Odysseus that was supposed to be the final of act I, the WHERE IS HE WHERE'S THE MAN WHO WAS LARGER THEN LIFE one] - Replaced with Monster

"Suffering" [a duet between Odysseus and Penelope i actually don't know if it was the final title] - ??? Probably cut out entirely i don't know any song that this might be replaced with and don't know where it could fit, there's a chance it might be a part of one of the songs from Ithaca saga but honestly I have no idea, I found only one tiktok about if from 2021 so

"Lotus Eaters song" - cut out entirely, partially replaces by Open Arms [tho the music itself didn't get used, and the lyrics where never posted]

Sneak peek of a song without known title [in which Odysseus lies to Calypso about being in love with her, There's other ways melody plays in soft giture] - cut out or might used to be a part of other song from Calypso bit and be rewritten into something else

The Boy and The Boar - rewritten into Warrior of the Mind (?) Or at least parts of it were used to make Warrior of the Mind, since parts of the final version of the song predates the reveal of the name

The Cyclops - cut out or rewritten into one of the songs from Cyclops Saga

Monster - Used to be 8th song, part of the Cyclops Saga. I don't know if there's any connections to the current Monster (20th song). There's a chance it was reused and moved later into the show but idk Note: The Cyclops and Monster used to be between The Boy and the Boar and My Goodbye, which means they covered the evens of: Polyphemus, Survive and Remember Them, covering all of the events on Polyphemus's island, so there's a chance some of thier lyrics ended up in those. Jorge in his draft 1 video on tiktok explains that they both sounded like they belong to totally a different musical, tho. This might mean the final "Monster" is actually an independent song

Failed Confession - Cut out, used to be between Ruthlesness and Puppeteer

Important note: Back in being in he Middle od Writing the First Draft Jorge posted a video that mentioned "many songs being cutted out" which might imply existence of more songs that didn't even make it to the first draft. Also, at some point he also mentioned that he might release a "cut out songs" album (for which i hope for, bc i need Man of The House in my life).

That's all, feel free to add to it if I missed something.

[jarondont]

Waiting for Love (part 2)

[The journey did not go as planned...]

Part 2: Circe

Things went downhill quickly. It all seemed like a blur to Odysseus — Ismarus, the lotus eaters, Polyphemus, Athena’s departure —

Polites. Odysseus’s eyes moistened at the thought of him.

And on top of all that, Poseidon was after him.

When would this nightmare end?

Odysseus wiped his eyes and sighed, gazing out over the wine-dark sea. He still couldn’t believe what had happened. Ithaca had been right there. His kingdom had been right there.

Penelope had been right there, just a few days ago.

He had been so close to a peaceful life. But his crew just had to open the bag of winds. Now he was once again so far away from home, this time with no idea of how to get back.

But he would try. Even if it would take an eternity.

He silently requested Penelope to hold out for some more, then followed Eurylochus to land.

•••

Odysseus was used to close calls with death. But this one … this one felt different. Sure, Circe had turned out to be helpful in the end, but for a little while, Odysseus had been scared.

Really scared.

But not for his life. He was afraid she’d force him to do the unthinkable — turn his back on Penelope and give in to Circe’s pleasure.

He had made it out in one piece, but he felt as if someone had picked him up, shook him violently, and then slammed him back down on the ground. His senses were on high alert all during their journey to the Underworld.

“Get some rest, Captain,” Eurylochus would advise him.

But Odysseus refused. “You know what happened the last time I failed to keep my eyes open.”

So Odysseus thought of something else to do — something he should have been doing a lot more over his journey.

He opened a drawer back in his quarters, and picking up a blank sheet, he started to write.

Dearest love of mine, Forgive me for taking this much time to get home. I should have heeded the wind god’s warnings and kept a closer eye on the bag. Indeed, I tried to, but sleep won me over. I will not give up yet, however. I will see you again. But that is not what I need to tell you about. See, after escaping the god of tides, we washed up on the island of Aeaea, home of the witch Circe and her nymphs. After Eurylochus went with some of the crew to take a look around the island, only he returned. He explained that Circe had turned the crew into pigs. Although he begged me to do otherwise, I felt it necessary to go save them. After what had happened with Polyphemus, I couldn’t afford to have any more blood on my hands. So I confronted Circe; asked her to release them. But she had other plans in mind. As much as it pains me to say this, my love, I cannot hide it from you. She wanted me to make love with her. I tried to fight her, but even with Hermes on my side, there was so much power. She almost won. Then, at the last second, I thought of your love. Of your wisdom. Of you, and how in my darkest days, you are my power; my drive. I begged Circe to let us leave, to let me get back to you. At last, she agreed. It was a close call, my love. I promise it will never happen again. Now we are headed to the Underworld, sent by Circe to consult a prophet who, she claims, can help us get home. I pray to the gods that our journey will be over soon so I can hold you in my arms once again. I will make it home, my Penelope. I promise. Wait for me.

Previous (1) || Current (2) || Next (3)

[winterfable]

Micenic greeks were pirates

It was only during a war that the household-owners acted together. The wars they engaged in were probably not fought for the acquisition of land, but rather to gain metals, precious or otherwise. Some people think that the greeks warred with Troy to gain their iron. The greeks themselves saw no difference between war and a pirate raid. Indeed, Odysseus saw nothing wrong with interrupting his journey home to sack the city of Ismarus, taking all the booty and wives his crew could carry.

--Tomado de "Study Guide to the Iliad by Homer" de Bright notes

[morgansrandomart]

My version of Ismarus' swordlady drawing <3 It's been a long time since I had any inspiration to draw something, so I feel quite pleased. ^^ Made in ink and colored in Photoshop.

[jewishdainix]

So glad they kept the "all i hear are screams" line drspite cutting the song ismarus. It is sooo good

[shiftereris]

Ismarus has to be one of my favorite songs from Epic.

“’If we don’t get that food our lives are lost.’ ‘If you take a life to save a life does it justify the cost?’”

Also the exchange between Odysseus and Eurylochus after Odysseus tells him not to use lethal force when getting the food is amazing.

[specialagentartemis]

Cut for discussion of rape in Greek mythology

People on this website often push back on the idolization/popularity of Odysseus as a character in Greek mythology compared to other kings and heroes of the Trojan War by saying “he did war crimes, too, he did objectively worse things than Agamemnon but he’s more charismatic.” I think the objectivity is questionable—you can argue he did worse things in Agamemnon, false surrender and killing civilians are war crimes now, but who did worse things I don’t think it’s objective—but aside from the general cultural popularity of the Odyssey, a pretty episodic story about a magic journey full of weird magic events and monsters that is appealing to casual Greek mythology enjoyers in a way that the Iliad isn’t— Odysseus does not have a specific rape story associated with him. And I do think that is pretty important for his modern day popularity.

Like the Iliad starts out with an argument between Agamemnon and Achilles over their slaves that they were very explicitly having sex with, Chryesis and Briesis. Agamemnon later takes Cassandra as a concubine/sex slave after the war. Neoptolemus takes Andromache as a concubine/sex slave similarly. Ajax rapes Cassandra in Athena’s temple. Odysseus’s slave prize at the end of the war was Hecuba, and the way I have seen it portrayed has never been sexual—like, it’s because misogyny, Hecuba is an older woman and has had lots of children and so she’s not a sexy virgin, but like, I’ve never seen that portrayed as sexual.

I’m not trying to excuse Odysseus or say it’s okay to make someone your slave as long as you don’t have sex with them—just making an observation that, I am almost positive this is one of the big reasons why Odysseus is so popular. He has a lot of stories about him, and none of them are about raping somebody. (You can definitely draw inferences from some of his mentions, like a line about the women of Ismarus, but like, the Iliad really starts with an argument over ownership of women that Agamemnon and Achilles have been raping.) In fact, he seems to tend to get sympathy for being a victim of rape himself.

When rape is one of the central organizing factors of discussing the morality of various Greek mythological figures—which, especially in a fandomy space like this, it undeniably is—there’s not then hypocrisy here!

(Why people like Achilles so much, though, that I don’t know. I’m biased though I don’t care about him.)

[gmanwhore]

Who would win in a fight? Cargen, SS!Kankri, or Kitaka Ismaru? (Pitting my Au vantases agaisnt each other lol)

Kitaka. I bet he already still trains himself and like. Knowing Taka. He is in good physical shape. Also the other two are just nerds. Taka is an active nerd.

[nikoisme]

Okay so here are my thoughts for the underworld saga:

1. Anticlea. Give me anticlea

2. So we hear odysseus say "circe's instructions were clear". It's probably just referencing some off-screen moments and we most likely won't hear circe but hey. It's fun

3. Just a man motif haunting the entire saga

4. OPEN ARMS REPRISE. or just polites in general. My bet is that it would be after odysseus says "i keep thinking of the infant from that night", because in the cut song "ismarus" that's when polites approaches him

5. Maybe we even hear penelope and telemachus but i doubt that one. Then again i do not trust jay

[cogitokurdu]

Odysseus'un Öyküsü Part-2

Odysseus’un Öyküsü Part-2

İsmaros Şehri Truva’dan 12 gemisiyle ayrıldıktan bir süre sonra Eurylochus, ileride Kikonlara ait bir şehri gördü ve şehri yağmalama fikrini ortaya attı. Kikonlar savaşta Truva’nın tarafında olduğu için fikir Odisseus tarafından kabul edildi. Gelen savaşçıları gören halk şehri boşaltarak dağlara kaçtı. Herhangi bir koruması, kalesi ve suru bulunmayan İsmarus kentine girip yağmaladılar.…

[harvest-guardian]

I've purchased 3 copies of Table Fables and 2 copies of Table Fables II (extra copies for friends) by Madeline Hale (https://tmblr.co/m9w4uWy-agYAbGoMRSk2iYQ). They are worth every penny.