#Luz and Hunter found out About him In hollow mind episode

[sabindark]

Runaway Grimwalker Au

After an unsuccessful attempt by Belos to possess Ben in The Human reality

Belos has awakened in Ben his Demon Shape

(Ben in Demon Shape form is more stable than Belos in his Demon form )

Luz : Wow! Wait a minute. since when can you do that too ?

Ben : about 20 seconds ago

[asherisawkward]

What did you think of Season 3 and its episodes? Also, do you think fans who weren't satisfied with Belos, Caleb, or Wittewife being ungrateful? I saw on Twitter that people who are upset are because Philip, Caleb, and Wittewife got more compared to other characters. Also that we didn't need to see a flashback because we already know from the Hollow Mind portraits what happened. Finally, what do you think of the Wittewife interpretations? How do you interpret her?

Get ready, because you’re in for a doozy of a rant, because Season Three was full of mixed feelings for me.

Thanks To Them:

I loved TTT because it felt incredibly suspenseful and horrifying to watch Luz and Hunter search for Philip. The exploration of Hunter’s personality and interests are heartwarming, and I can completely relate to him about wolves. It’s also interesting to see the ways Hunter grows and reacts to his Grimwalker situation and the similarities between him and Caleb.

Masha was obviously amazing, and I loved their depiction of the Wittebane Brothers’ Tale. I did notice that the local legend supposedly took place about twenty years before Gravesfield was reported to have been founded on the sign. That may be a sign that their story was incorrect, but who knows.

What really interested me was the implications of the story. Philip was an orphan with very little connection to his parents due to losing them when he was very young. Clearly, he was heavily dependent upon Caleb for his sense of safety and security, as well as his stable point to interact with the world. With Caleb leaving with Evelyn, Philip must have been left traumatized and terrified.

And Caleb…If Evelyn truly wasn’t evil, then he abandoned his brother by choice. It doesn’t really matter if he thought he’d be better off. His brother needed him, and he left.

Evelyn shares less of the blame, in my opinion, because Caleb might not have mentioned that he was an older brother or spoken of Philip. I tend to imagine her as a kind but spirited person who likely made Caleb realize there was more to life than the strict rules of Puritan society. She would likely have been a friend before they became lovers.

With that analysis done, I’ll get back to TTT.

During the possession scene, I was pretty conflicted. The animation was beautiful, and the voice acting was amazing. But I feel like it was needlessly cruel to Hunter to possess him, scar him for life, kill his therapy animal, and re-grow his hair so that he looked like his Ortet when his whole arc was about becoming his own person and learning he is not Caleb. Additionally, I’m mildly bothered by the writers making him want to carve palismen like Caleb when he had already demonstrated interest in sewing.

For The Future:

Philip’s travels were so interesting. It was horrific to watch him slowly fall apart as he desperately searched for a new body, even possessing an unfinished grimwalker to try to do the job. Some story boards and behind the scenes content revealed that Caleb and the Golden Guard ghosts were, in fact, hallucinations.

This was extremely impactful to me because it indicates that Philip had some inkling that what he’s doing is wrong, but he has fallen into the sink cost fallacy: the idea that something can’t be wrong because you invested so much time, energy, and resources into it. To put it simply, his guilt is driving him mad, but he has to continue because he knows there is no redemption for him.

New Hexside was okay. It was mildly annoying due to the change in tone feeling forced and disrupting compared to the extremely serious tone of Philip’s section. It was cool to see the way society had turned out for those who survived. I adore that it was an absolute mess, because it’s incredibly accurate for something run by teenagers.

I disliked the bit with Kikimora because it felt like a retcon of her arc in Kings Tide. She had been so obsessed with pleasing and serving someone in the pursuit of approval and greater power that she forgot she was also in danger from her hero’s plans. To restate it a way I’ve heard, “she was so focused on the boot she had on others’ necks that she didn’t notice the one on her own.” It was very gratifying to see her get retribution against Philip and play a part in saving the Isles. So FTF felt like a backslide to her.

Boscha was an interesting parallel to Philip in feeling abandoned by someone she cared about. So she attempted to force that person to stay. However, she is able to move on and accept that things have changed. It’s what would have happened if Philip had been able to let go, and I like that.

Willow’s breakdown was understandable, but not handled the best, and I dislike that she was “saved” when she doesn’t really like that sort of thing. It would have been better if Hunter and Gus had talked to her and let her slowly unload her feelings instead of being “saved” by Hunter.

I also dislike where their arcs end with them holding pinkies. Don’t get me wrong, I think that Huntlow is adorable and has a lot of potential. I just think that should be dealt with after they are more emotionally stable.

King and the Collector’s story was the least interesting to me, though I think the “new” Collector is adorable. I loved the dynamic they had as a somewhat malicious and irreverent being that will poke and prod at anything for some amusement. It really made him feel like a threat, and I liked that.

The new interpretation revealed by the interactions with King was sweet but less compelling to follow. I would have found it much more interesting for King to help him slowly come to understand human/demon/witch morals and the way what they did was wrong.

Philip’s tricking of the Collector felt like a little bit of a stress, but potentially in character as someone who was desperate to regain the power he had likely lost due to Vee. King’s dialogue for that bit felt kind of forced, but I can excuse it.

Watching and Dreaming:

Oh crud, here’s the real doozy. Watching and Dreaming was the biggest let down for me. It was stunning visually, and the animation was fluid as a whole. It looked amazing, and I was thrilled with the episode the first time I watched it. But the more I thought on it, the more issues I’ve found.

I thought the nightmare sequence was going to be far more significant than it was. I was hoping for a deep analysis on the ways that Luz and Philip mimicked each other in their desire to be the hero, protect the people they care about, and escape the unsatisfactory reality that they had previously lived in.

I thought we would see Eda face and potentially live out some of her greatest fears. Maybe she would accidentally hurt King or Luz. It would have been interesting to see her grapple this during an intense battle that would decide the fate of the Isles! It was disappointing for that to be over in fewer than ten minutes without any of the depth. I don’t really have much to say for King’s nightmare sequence.

On a far more minor note, I disliked Philip’s design during this episode. Yeah, Kaiju Philip was interesting looking, but he doesn’t carry any of the same weight or fear that he used to. The lack of detail and speech from him felt off, because he is a character who puts so much weight into words and manipulation, and we never really get to see him.

I also dislike the way that his color scheme changed. I really liked the dark green and glowing blue thing he had going on. It felt like ooze and rot, like the decay and destruction of a person’s very soul until it’s so twisted it’s no longer human. The lighter green feels sickly, and it gives me the same feeling I get when I touch a grainy eraser. I shudder, and I don’t know why. However, that’s about all on Philip’s design, now to the more major concerns and thoughts.

Luz’s death would have been far more effective if she had died more slowly and if people had noticed she was dead. Without anyone else acknowledging it, I just felt kind of hollow for the whole thing.

I thought that Papa Titan was cool, but I really dislike what he did to the narrative. This fight was set up to be horrific and challenging, that it would take every ounce of the characters’ strength. And King’s parent just kind of took that away.

Additionally, she denied all the buildup that was put into Philip’s character. Philip was set up to be tragic and sympathetic. It implied that anyone could become an extremist and hurt others because they got in too deep, and I related to Philip a lot as a character, as well as Hunter. To see him called just plain evil was disrespectful to the rest of the work put in and everything Wittebro fans hoped to see.

Some people believe that the backstory we got was sufficient for Philip’s character. Respectfully, I disagree. The pictures that were in the background of Hollow Mind were exactly that—background. It implied a tragic character that went off the deep end when he lost the only person he loved.

It suggests that, in a better world, Philip could have moved past his biases and the manipulation he experienced the way Boscha and Caleb did. He could have had a happy ending and been the person that Luz thought he was. By saying he was just evil and ignoring his backstory, Papa Titan and Luz do the exact same thing that Philip does: dehumanize the enemy and say that the group/person should be killed without remorse. It also dehumanizes or hurts those that connect with him due to religious trauma or other reasons.

It feels wrong when only a scene ago, Luz was telling the Collector that things weren’t that simple. But now, they magically are.

Papa Titan also breaks all of the themes that were set up earlier: the idea that you have to choose yourself, that there is no divine being that is going to make you special, and that Luz got where she did because she was open minded and hard working. By making the Titan gift her the runes, it discredits all the hard work she did and supports Philip’s comment that the reason he couldn’t get glyphs easily was because the Titan was making it difficult (as opposed to him being a closed minded individual who couldn’t connect to the Isles).

Luz didn’t really have a choice, and it’s never really addressed the way that the found family theme is ignored as a result of her being chosen. It also implied that all the growth she did over the previous two seasons was pointless, because she was the chosen one.

After that, the tone is distinctly more action based and exciting as opposed to the horrific and stressful encounter I was expecting. It felt like the fight wasn’t being taken seriously by the characters or the writers, and it made it hard to stay invested or take the stakes seriously.

The fight could have been the whistle Hexsquad taking on Philip and supporting each other. Hunter could have helped get people out of the way when they were being attacked. Gus could have distracted Philip and help people escape or even left him open to attack. Willow and Amity could have grappled him and harmed him. Camila could have given it her all with the bat. It could have really pushed the theme of community and connection and the way they impact people.

Finally, I want to talk about one last thing: Philip’s death. I laughed at it the first time I saw it. It was amusing and more than a touch satisfying, but it’s not what Philip deserved.

Philip was a tragic, hurt character who sacrificed his health, his morals, and everything about himself in the pursuit of protecting humanity from witches. He was evil and irredeemable, and I do not want him to be redeemed.

I wanted him to learn that it was all for nothing and that his guilt was justified, that he was fed lies by the people he admired and told what he did was right when it wasn’t. I wanted to see him break down at the knowledge of his actions and their consequences, the sins he committed. Then, I wanted him to die.

In later watching, the scene where Raine, Eda, and King stomp him to death feels cruel. I agree that he needed to die, but Philip couldn’t fight back. It doesn’t feel like something that good guys would do. And Luz just watching them do that felt wrong.

Epilogue:

I liked the epilogue as a whole, except for a bit on Hunter. The thing with him and Willow was cute, but he didn’t cut his hair again, and he went on to carve palisman. I feel as if it violates everything previously set up about him choosing to be himself, and that makes me a bit sad.

In Conclusion:

I think that the people who weee unsatisfied with the Wittebane lore have every right to be. It was the most impactful series of events for the future of the Isles. It was built up for ages and never carried through. Obviously, my opinion would change if there was a series or movie on them.

Evelyn was “spring” to Caleb, as she introduced him the first life and light that allowed him to be who he wanted to be.

Season Three had amazing animation and visual depiction, but it fumbled on the themes it had previously established and some of the character development.

I am so sorry for rambling/ranting so much on this. I hope I haven’t scared or upset you. Have a great day!

[flower-boi16]

Lily Orchard’s Takes on Hunter are garbage and here’s why [The Owl House]

I decided to remake this post because there were some things I wanted to add in or change about the original post (and because no one saw the original post lol). So...let’s just get this over with. 

I'm just gonna cut to the chase; The Owl House is a fantastic show and I think LO's takes on one of the characters in the series are poorly thought out or just not true and here's why. For those who (somehow) don't know; Lily Orchard is a youtuber who makes video essays on cartoons, she's also probably the most controversial youtube critic I've seen. I'm not gonna cover much of the drama that Lily's been involved in, but I felt like that was worth mentioning. The Owl House is a show that Lily covers quite a bit on her channel, but she has a very certain dislike of one particular character in it; Hunter. I decided to make this post for two reasons; 1) I don't see many people debunking Lily's arguments about Hunter outside of some asks on LO gossip blogs on Tumblr and 2) I really like Hunter. He's probably my second favorite of the main characters right below Luz for me, and I wanted to make this post after finishing the show because...

Lily's arguments about Hunter aren't very good. They are filled with Lily constantly making poorly thought out and false arguments about Hunter that could be easily disproven if you actually watch the show. So I'm gonna cover some of Lily's points about Hunter and why they are false. This post is going to cover some of Lily's major arguments criticizing Hunter and why I disagree with them. Let's begin.

"Hunter Is a Passive Character"

I'll just take this piece of text from a really good article I've found about passive characters right here:

"These characters have goals — from as small as a glass of water to as big as saving the world — and their determination to achieve those goals creates the stakes of the story.  Passive characters are, naturally, the opposite. They wait for things to happen instead of making them happen. They’re reactive, not proactive.  Whereas active characters impact the story, passive characters sit back and experience the story." -WHY YOU SHOULD AVOID WRITING PASSIVE CHARACTERS (& HOW TO MAKE THEM ACTIVE)

As the text says, a passive character is a character that doesn't contribute to the story in any meaningful way and simply sits back, and watches the story as it goes, often waiting for things to happen instead of making them happen. It's important to define what a passive character is to illustrate my point; that being, Hunter is not a passive character, which is what Lily accuses him of being. To take some quotes from Lily's video on Hunter:

"Hunter's character has been passive from his first appearance, even when he had the trash boy Vanitas vibe going for him. He shows up, does nothing, refuses to elaborate and leaves."

"Typically passive characters aren't a good thing to give this kind of screen time to because the majority of that time will be spent watching them hem and haw and drag their feet. This was the problem with Hollow Mind. It doesn't go through much information that's new to the viewer, and indeed that new information is kept to the background paintings. And that's because 90% of the episode is spent watching Hunter cope and seeth which grinds the story to a halt"

"Most of the time when he's actually in an episode, the story grinds to a halt while Hunter sits there and does fucking nothing and you may as well skip to act 3 because its going to go the same way the last few of them went" -Glass of Water Character Potential Doesn't Excuse Lazy Writing

Lily says that in most of the episodes centering around Hunter, he just sits there and does nothing until the episode's third act. However, this simply isn't true. Let's look at four out of the five episodes focusing on Hunter and why the things he does in those episodes don't make him passive.

S2 EP 6: Hunting Palisman: I don't have much to say about Hunter in this one. This episode basically introduces us to Hunter proper where we get to see him grow a slight friendship with Luz and him deciding to let her take the palisman instead of betraying her. Don't have much to say here.

S2 EP9: Eclipse Lake - This is an example of Hunter pushing the plot forward and him not being a passive character. Here, he disguises himself as a coven scout to go to the expedition led by Kikimora searching for Titan blood in eclipse lake so he could prove himself to be useful to Belos after he says that Hunter is "replaceable".  Later in the episode, he gets the Titan blood key and gives it to Belos. This is an example of Hunter being an active character; he pushes the plot forward and contributes to it, which is important because passive characters don't do that; rather, they wait for the plot to happen and react to it rather than actually making the plot happen.

S2 EP 13: Any Sport in a Storm - Now this is where Lily's points about Hunter being "passive" really begin to show their cracks. In this episode, Hunter goes to find recruits for the emperor's coven after being "ordered" by Darius to do, so he could, like in the last episode, prove his worth to the emperor's coven. Here, he joins Willow's flyer derby team and after playing a game he basically kidnaps them and makes them join the emperor's coven against their will. After realizing what he did was fucked he goes to protect them by saying their too weak for the emperor's coven, giving them a chance to escape. Hunter, like in the last episode, is not only an active character by pushing the plot forward, but he also goes through development here as he learns to make connections with people outside of the emperor's coven and is even willing to take a lethal blow from Darius to and sacrifice his status to protect his friends. Hunter, like in his last episode, is not a passive character.

S2 EP16 Hollow Mind - Hey, did you know that Lily thinks Hollow Mind is the worst episode of the show and thinks it's a 1/10? I could cover how bad Lily's takes on this episode are but someone already did make a video on that so I won't touch on her other takes about the episode here, but it's clear from the last quote that Lily misses the point of the episode. In this episode, Hunter gets trapped with Luz inside of Belos's mind and they end up seeing Belos's memories, which challenge Hunter's entire worldview. The episode shows how much Hunter was manipulated by Belos, as he believes that Belos has done nothing wrong and that he is making Hunter do the right thing. As the episode goes on however, and he and Luz begin seeing Belos's memories, Hunter ends up being in denial that Belos is actually evil, making excuses for what he did in those memories, with this line after Hunter and Luz see what the sigils actually do standing out to me;

Luz: You can't deny it now. Belos is trying to hurt people!

Hunter: He was just... perfecting sigil magic! Besides, maybe, he's remembering things wrong. Who knows how mindscapes work?

Luz: I thought you did!

Hunter: Well, maybe I'm an idiot!

Hunter was raised to think that emperor Belos was doing a good thing, and that he loves him. All of that comes crashing down when It's revealed that Belos has killed previous Golden Guards, and the episode ends with breaking from Belos's control and realizing that he was being used and manipulated all along with his whole world turning upside down. This episode has Hunter learn the truth about Belos and shows how much Belos warped his worldview into believing he was doing the right thing. That's the point of Hollow Mind; It's about Hunter realizing that Belos has lied to him this whole time and breaking free from his abusive "uncle". The fact that Lily just labels this episode as another one where he "waffles around about whether to do the right thing again" is just missing the point. Again, he's been lied to his whole life, it's gonna take a lot for him to see the truth.

S2 EP18 Labyrinth Runners - I don't have much to say about this one, but Hunter does still grow as a character here. In the episode, Adrian (The head of the illusionist coven) tries to get the students of Hexside to get sigils for the day of unity, and Gus ends up creating a giant illusion that covers the entire school making many students (and teachers) get lost in the illusion. Before that, It's revealed that after the events of Hollow Mind, Hunter has gone under hiding from Belos and went to Hexside to crash in. Like the previous episodes, this episode has Hunter grow as a character, with him overcoming his trust issues with Gus, but he also saves Gus from Adrian. This is another episode where Hunter grows as a character and actively pushes the plot forward.

So, as we've seen through all of these episodes, Hunter is not a passive character, unlike what Ms Orchard over here would like to tell you. He doesn't spend most of his episodes focusing on him sitting around doing nothing; In all of the episodes he's in he is either actively pushing the plot forward or growing and developing as a character. Lemme take another piece of text from that article I previously mentioned;

These characters have goals — from as small as a glass of water to as big as saving the world — and their determination to achieve those goals creates the stakes of the story. - WHY YOU SHOULD AVOID WRITING PASSIVE CHARACTERS (& HOW TO MAKE THEM ACTIVE)

Hunter starts out as a character that has a goal; that being proving himself worthy to the emperor's coven, and we see him try to work for that goal in S2 EP9 and S2 EP13. So, Hunter is not a passive character, he's a character who either pushes the story forward or is actively growing and developing, unlike what Lily would like to tell you.

And here’s another thing; notice how Lily never sites any examples to her point where she says this:

"Most of the time when he's actually in an episode, the story grinds to a halt while Hunter sits there and does fucking nothing and you may as well skip to act 3 because its going to go the same way the last few of them went" -Glass of Water Character Potential Doesn't Excuse Lazy Writing

“The same as the last few of them went”, Lily, please explain how each of Hunter’s episodes go if you’re going to make this claim. Hunter’s episodes don’t have the same structure copied and pasted throughout, if you actually watch them you would know this. I know Lily watched these episodes, so where is she getting this from?

"Hunter is Stapled onto Other Characters"

This is another common complaint Lily has with Hunter, that being he is "stapled" onto other characters in his episodes and that he often overshadows them. I'm just gonna cut to the chase; wtf does this even mean? Lily doesn't specify what she means by Hunter being "stapled" onto other characters nor why it's a bad thing, if anything all she is describing here is Hunter interacting with other characters in his episodes. However, there is another side to this argument that Lily has, that being that she thinks that Hunter overshadows other characters, mainly Willow and Gus, and that they get pushed to the side for the sake of his arc, and that Hunter takes up too much screen time.

The issue with this point is that Hunter really doesn't overshadow other characters as much as Lily says he does. For Gus in particular in Labyrinth Runners he isn’t pushed to the side in favor of Hunter like how Lily says he is; the episode shows both of them working through their trust issues. Hunter isn’t being “stapled” onto Gus here just so he could overshadow him, both characters support each other’s arcs and help them grow. It really feels like Lily hates Hunter for just...being in an episode, regardless of the reason. As for Willow, I don’t think Hunter overshadowed her much either. That being said, I always found Willow to be an underdeveloped character to begin with so maybe that’s why, but like Gus she also does support Hunter’s arc and helps him grow. 

She even sometimes says that Hunter is just shoved into an episode for no reason other than Dana apparently liking him a lot which...also no, Hunter is not shoved into an episode for no reason, in his episodes he is interacting with other characters and growing because of them.

So yes, Hunter is stapled onto other characters....why is that a bad thing tho? He’s just interacting with other characters in the show, what’s wrong with that? Why is a character interacting with other characters bad? Like, in her TOH season 2 round up video, one of the cons for the episode Hollow Mind is “Golden Guard is stapled onto Luz to inflate his importance”...so she’ll just list Hunter being there or interacting with the characters as something wrong with an episode...ya. If that’s not another really bad point I don’t know what is.

"Hunter is a superfluous character"

This section is going to be shorter than the other two mainly because this was partially responded to in the first section, but it was a big enough criticism for Hunter that Lily has so it's worth giving its own section to. So anyways, Lily often says that Hunter is an unnecessary character and that you could remove him from the story and nothing would change. This, like Lily's other points about Hunter, isn't true. Aside from how, like I mentioned earlier, Hunter has a connection to Belos, the main antagonist of the series, he makes major contributions to the plot outside of that. He's the one to give the titan blood key to Belos, he saves Gus from the illusionist, he discusses what is going to happen on the day of unity with the other students at Hexside, and he's the one to get possessed by Belos. So no, Hunter is not an unnecessary character, he's a character that makes contributions to the plot , and major ones at that.

Conclusion

So, that was my mini-essay on why I disagree with Lily's points on Hunter. I had never made a post as big as this one before, but hey, at least I get satisfaction out of defending one of my favorite characters in a show that I like from someone who clearly misunderstands it. So ya...bye

[imminent-danger-came]

*sets down my folding chair and sits* So, 3x01 of the o/w/l h/ou/se. Fair warning this is a negative rant so I'm putting it under a readmore:

I can not believe the stars were aligned for the PERFECT Hollow Mind parallel, and it DIDN'T HAPPEN. Hunter and Philip trapped in the same body/mind? Hunter fighting for control? Luz coming to terms with the fact that she lead Philip to the collector? Flapjack getting absorbed into Hunter like all those previous palismens were absorbed into Belos? Like that would have been so good it KILLS ME that it didn't happen. Learning how Philip and Caleb found their way to the Boiling Isles would have been way more satisfying coming from Philip himself.

And honestly like...the episode was fine-ish, but I think overall I was disappointed by it. I don't really care for how they handled Hunter and Luz's respective secrets, and I was SUPER disappointed by Luz's reaction to Belos' return. Like there he is, the man who caused about 3/4 of all your trauma, and like....nothing? Like on god running into Belos should have been the culmination of her s2 and 3x01 arc, yet it wasn't.

I also just kinda wish Luz's refusal to tell her friends she helped Phiplip meet the collector was based more in her fear of being a burden rather than the fear of her friends hating her. This isn't to say there weren't good moments in the special, but they were definitely scattered throughout the episode. It all just fell super flat for me. But I guess in general I find The Owl House to be a very mid show.

Since typing this post in my drafts I've also watched 3x02 and honestly, I feel the same way I did watching the first episode. The writers tried to give every character their own new mini arc instead of focusing on what had already been established previously. Which would be fine, except... this is the penultimate episode. We should be building off of everyone's series long arcs (of which Luz only really has, and I guess Hunter too since he was only around for season 2. Kind of Belos? They've just like, abandoned writing him).

Genuinely disappointed they took away all of the fucked-upedness from the Collector and just made him a lonely kid, rather than a child with the powers of a god and no regard for others or morals. His debut in "Hollow Mind" made him out to be someone who truly relished in chaos, and now he's just like...a child playing make-believe. I think an angle like this could have worked with a different approach, but the episode as is isn't really my thing.

Both these specials feel like "these are all the ideas we had for season 3, let's shove them into these specials" rather than effectively using the time they had. Like...the human world and hexside shenanigans are fun, sure, but focusing on the like...everything else you now don't have time to pay off is way more important.

[theprinceandthewitch]

I cannot stress this enough: I don't like the sibling bullshit going on - not because it "get's in the way of my ship" or whatever idiotic nonsense rage-baiters want to spout. I am way too old for that dumbass shit and I consume media differently than most people do.

I'm training myself to analyze story structures so I can pick apart media I like. I enjoy figuring out how they work (or don't work) so that I can better write my own stories and then maybe become an editor down the line.

So this isn't, "Oh I'm upset my ship isn't canon". It's more like "It makes no sense to "siblingfy" the type of boy the main character likes and would have got together with him if circumstances were different. It also doesn't make sense for Hunter to become Camilla's kid and not Darius's. It also doesn't make sense for Hunter to stay in the human realm with Camilla given his position as the literal prince of TBI."

Most people don't realize that shows take literal years to produce.

So the people who work on it are going to have certain details slip from their mind. This is especially true if you're not on the writing team. Voice actors have daily obligations to attend to on top of doing other projects. Would YOU call two characters siblings if you remembered:

They had a fake-out kiss moment (in Hunting Palismen). This was a call back to a sleeping prince needing to be awoken with a kiss from the proof of concept video.

Luz is into angsty warrior prince types with tragic backstories and animal sidekicks... just like Hunter. Hunter at this point is nearly identical to Nevareth - you know, that dude Luz was drooling all over in the second episode of the series. Literally the only differences between these two is body type. (There's a chance Hunter could also lose an eye but I'm not going to get into that now.)

That drawing of Luz kissing a prince that looks like Beta Hunter in "Sense and Insensitivity"

Saw Luz saying she hopes see meets a "hot yet vulnerable upperclassman" in "First Day"

Saw how Hunter and Luz parallel Evelyn and Caleb. Luz and Hunter have romantic undertones because of this. Evelyn and Caleb were lovers, this was apparent in Hollow Mind. In one of the paintings you can SEE that she's pregnant. It's the one where they're running away together. This isn't a tale about "two very good friends" or "two siblings" - they were LOVERS. Luz and Hunter cannot escape this just because they never get together or become actual siblings. Now, do you see how the latter is the worst direction you can go?

How could anyone not think it'd be weird to "siblingfy" Luz and Hunter knowing all this? Another thing people seem to forget is that voice actors who are not writers are allowed to like headcanons.

This was really rampant in the Voltron (2016) crew. Writers AND VA were supporting Shiro/Keith as a romantic pairing DESPITE the age gap and that Shiro met Keith when he was a child. And that they, you know, never ended up together.

I also want to point out it just doesn't make sense for Hunter to live with Camilla in the human realm. You all have to remember that he didn't want to go back to the demon realm because he is the literal prince who helped Belos with his plans.

Besides Separate Tides and Hollow Mind, we never get to see Hunter on the missions Belos sends him on. But do you seriously think Hunter never caused harm to people? He's afraid he'll be recognized - and he has been recognized by his voice before. You don't think the people are going to want reparations from a member of the monarchy that attempted genocide on them? You don't think someone might try to harm him if they found out who he is? Of COURSE he's reluctant to go back to the demon realm.

Hunter may be a teenager, but he isn't above the consequences of his actions. He still needs to make it up to the people he ruled over. He needs to make up for the hurt he caused before The Day of Unity. He needs to be the one who cleans up the mess his "uncle" caused.

It was so obvious he wasn't going to get his little happily ever after in the human realm because he was never going to get the opportunity to run away from accountability.

That's why it makes the most sense for him to stay in the demon realm with Darius. Darius can help him repair the damage caused by Belo's reign and maybe even dissolve the monarchy entirely. Which by the way, WOULDN'T be a quick fix. Do you really think you can undo 50 years of pain in an afternoon? Do you really think that Hunter would just be able to get on everyone's good side even if he killed Belos and stopped The Collector?

Also it just doesn't make sense for the writers to set-up this connection between Hunter and Darius if they were just gonna drop it entirely. Darius isn't some rando adult in his life - he has ties to the Golden Guard who came before him - he has ties to Hunters "family". He can give him a connection to his "family" that Camilla cant give him. While Darius and Hunter's relationship wasn't the best pre-Day of Unity - Darius did display some affection for Hunter. He is obviously going to reconcile with Hunter down the line.

And another thing... It literally makes no sense for Darius and Camilla to get hitched. Why should Camilla and Luz help in cleaning up a mess the literal puritanical white man caused to that degree? Why would Camilla and Luz even take on that responsibility? It's not their mess to clean up.

It's Hunter's mess to clean up - whether he likes it or not. He can't stay in the human realm with Camilla because doing so gives Hunter the opportunity to dodge accountability. That's why Flapjack had to die - it had to be something that devastating to give him a reason to return home and take accountability for his actions and his "uncles" actions.

[platinumgigi]

hey since in my last post i vaguely mentioned that i like Lunter, why don't i ramble about it a little bit because i really like Lunter

i've honestly really liked them as a pairing ever since Hunting Palismen, and my descent into absolute brain-rotting madness for them was very much assisted by the actual personal attack on me that was Hollow Mind because, wow, okay, just put some of my most favorite character dynamic/relationship tropes into an episode while simultaneously ripping my heart out and then kicking me while i'm down with the knowledge that Luz is in a relationship with someone else during almost the entire time of even knowing Hunter. yeah okay cool cool, i have totally chill and normal thoughts and feelings about them like a regular person. i'm good.

but one thing i absolutely adore about them, especially, is the parallels they have to Caleb & Evelyn. and while i would absolutely go on a 72-paragraph thesis of a tangent on why i'm so in love with ships that reference or directly parallel being like a previous romantic relationship and subtly or explicitly stating that they were fated or destined to be together, i will hold back on that for now to instead write a thesis of a tangent on another reason why i love that they parallel Caleb and Evelyn: they parallel them better than any other relationship in the show.

i have seen a fair bit of people try to argue for the potential parallels and symbolisms between other characters' relationships and Caleb & Evelyn's, such as with Luz and Amity or with Hunter and Willow (hell i think i saw one post somewhere trying to connect Caleb & Evelyn to Eda & Raine and honestly? i respect that tenacity) and i don't think that drawing some similarities between Caleb & Evelyn's relationship to the different ones Luz and Hunter have in their lives is bad or wrong in any way; i do think that the good ol' Owl House crew were deliberately trying to make some connections there, especially since they seem pretty adamant about Luz & Amity and Hunter & Willow being endgame. but the thing about it for me, though, is that none of those other ships parallel Caleb & Evelyn as thoroughly and believably as Luz and Hunter do.

like, let's take a step back and just look at the structures of both Caleb & Evelyn's lives and incentives and Luz and Hunter's:

For Caleb and Evelyn, they obviously were from two completely different walks of life, both figuratively and literally: Evelyn was a witch, likely born and bred from the Boiling Isles itself and possibly found herself stuck in the human realm (potentially on accident too), and was most definitely hated, feared, and utterly rebuked from human society for just being who and what she was. And then there was Caleb, a human who had assimilated to a lifestyle of murdering/supporting the murder of people like Evelyn in order to fit in with good ol' 1613 society, likely just to find a life where he and his younger brother could be safe, happy, healthy, and accepted.

When Caleb and Evelyn met, there was obviously some kind of spark or bond between them, regardless of however it may have initially presented itself, that was strong enough for Caleb to end up retreating with Evelyn into the demon realm and learning more about the world and its magic, over staying with and protecting his younger brother Philip, as he seemed to have done all his life up until meeting Evelyn.

For Hunter and Luz, they also come from very different walks of life: Hunter is a magically bio-engineered clone of Caleb made by Belos/Philip for the purpose of "rebirthing" his older brother as his loyal right hand man that would never leave or betray him ever again. Hunter was never able to truly be his own person even before he found out that he was a Grimwalker, and never got to gain any of the life experiences that a normal person could (i.e. biologically being able to perform magic, learning about the worlds and realms, uncovering and studying true history that Belos had banned or covered up). He knew nothing of socializing with people his age and rarely ever got to leave the Emperor's castle as it was, and his only reason for being alive was secretly just a sick and twisted way for Philip Wittebane to live out the fantasy life he'd always wanted; one without witches, and one where his brother would finally stay with him.

And then there's Luz, a human girl who, while having the full opportunity of learning new things and making friends, never got to do so, as she was a social outcast for all her life because her own interests and quirks didn't align with that of her peers, or most of anyone who knew her. Thus she was drawn to the many mediums of art, and the genres of fantasy and fiction, where she could immerse herself in a story and imagine herself as the hero who goes on epic quests and makes a bunch of friends along the way. And when she found herself in a world where all of that could become true, she discovered that despite being physically and biologically different from everyone around her, she was so much more at home with the people who were once, in human history, considered to be vile, evil monsters.

When Luz and Hunter met, there was obviously some kind of spark or bond between them, regardless of their initial tension and hostility towards each other, that was strong enough for Hunter to go against the orders of Emperor Belos for Luz, and then eventually betray and flee from Belos altogether with her, over staying with and defending the man who had (quite literally) given him life and a home, as he had done all his life up until meeting Luz.

Like, on this pretty basic story level, you can obviously see that these two pairings mirror each other almost perfectly. Of course there are some differences between them, and some places where one character might parallel the opposite one in the relationship (i.e. Luz and Caleb both being humans, Evelyn being a witch and Hunter technically being one too). But overall, just from this level, you can just see how well they all reflect and complement each other, how aspects of their characters beautifully contrast one another as well as the antagonists of the story, and how both their relationships, despite the adversity they face for being who and what they are and the type of lives they'd lived growing up, manage to find each other, and be the catalyst for one of them to finally take the plunge and go after what they truly wants rather than staying in their normal lives and continue doing what they were demanded of.

For a relationship that the fandom (and possibly even the show itself too) really try to push as only being that of siblings or familial love, Luz and Hunter sure do have a fuck ton of natural romantic coding, down to the parallels with Caleb & Evelyn (aka the true power couple of The Owl House as they're pretty much the entire reason for present-day story happening) to their witty yet childish banter and arguments, to their literal enemies-to-friends-to-something-more set up, and their overall organic chemistry and fun and intriguing ways they play off of each other and ALSO their relationship's narrative relevance that actively moves the plot forward and heavily impacts it—

Yeah, suffice it to say, while I definitely understand and respect those who just see Hunter and Luz as siblings or just good friends or just overall prefer them in different relationships, I just can't get over the gold mine of romantic potential these two have, regardless of what the Owl House crew were planning their relationship to be like from the very beginning.

And honestly, if they truly did always intend for Hunter and Luz to have something more akin to a sibling relationship than anything remotely romantic, all I can say to that is: LMAO. Cause like, bro, if you really wanted that to be the case, you kinda accidentally fucked up and gave them way too many parallels and similarities to the most romantic relationship in all of the show. Just sayin'. 🤣🤣

[sepublic]

Post-Hoot for Edge of the World AND Labyrinth Runners!

-According to Bosook Coburn (face and namesake for Bo), they were sitting on the fact of King being a Titan “for so long” and noticed how people predicted it really early too, and they were just like “…Well COOL, sure… We’re just gonna let that lie… We’re gonna- We will confirm that eventually.” Not to brag, but I was one of those people who guessed it from the very beginning, one of the first...!

-As director of the episode, it was “interesting” because they were still figuring out a lot of the lore (I presume Bo means the animators, not the writers), so there was a lot of working with new material as they were given it. They got to design the Titan Trapper island, the general setting; Bo noted that with this episode and Hollow Mind before, they were getting into “darker territory” and thus needed to “handle it as delicately as possible”. Bo boarded the scene where King hugs Luz’s leg at the end; As she explains, “When moments like that happen, it’s such a rare thing in animation because we have so much that we’re trying to fit in, that it’s hard to get a quiet moment like that, so when you do you just want to milk it, take it for all its worth.”

-King Pecora worked on the parts where they met Tarak, entered the town and saw the different Titan Trappers, as well as the ritual with the Collector.

-Bo thinks they left this episode like over a YEAR ago (This Post-Hoot was released just before O Titan, Where Art Thou).

-Bo met Dana while working on Tangled.

-Rebecca did confirm here that they ARE on King’s dad, the Boiling Isles is his father, without a doubt.

 -Luz Batista (AKA Luz Noceda’s real-world namesake and inspiration) had her first writing credit for Labyrinth Runners. She came onto TOH as a storyboard revisionist, she was a story consultant from the very beginning because of “cultural stuff” and using “references”, just input and background. From there she got to sit in the writer’s room once or twice and was nervous because she was being perceived. She eventually became a story artist and was asked to help write an episode, hence LR.

-Luz (Batista) met Dana at school, they both used to work in “the animation cage”, they would talk about what real life was like, how to prepare themselves for it. Dana would talk to students from other schools, so they can figure out what they’re learning and how this prepares them, only to realize nobody has a goddamn clue.

-Luz Batista was “not gonna say” if the Sailor Moon pose between Amity and Willow was her idea; She legitimately couldn’t remember. According to her, their work on Labyrinth Runners was in November and December of 2020.

-Cissy admits that her superpower is forgetting sessions, because she didn’t remember doing the scene where Lilith kicks the door in and says she came as soon as she heard (in Edge of the World). Similarly, Sarah has issues remembering quotes, and Bo recalls how Dana early on would sometimes ask her if she remembered a thing that would happen; Bo would give a confused no to Dana’s surprise, given it was from Bo’s episode.

-Bo explained that the glowing eyes of Willow and Gus are an “emotional response”, heightened by their emotions. As Luz Batista puts it, “You see how he deals with his anxiety, how in that moment fear, all these projections come out and he’s still not grounded yet, until later when Hunter finally grounds him down.” As someone mercilessly picked on in high school, Cissy identified with Gus’ moments so bigly.

-Bo thinks Alex Hirsch came up with “WEH” for King, “it became something that was so deeply ingrained in King’s character, like we would just add it in wherever we could, in boards, and in the script, and all that stuff,” and that just led to them deciding it was a Titan trait. 

-Cissy admitted she found Bump with his hair out “hot” and Sarah agreed “He was kind of a baddie”, Luz Batista concurred “You gotta love a good adult.” 

-Luz Batista confirmed Boscha wasn’t present because of animation budget, “Not everyone can be on-screen sometimes”. As she continues, “I feel like we’ve had a lot of time with Boscha before, where, it was time to kind of show where- how the other characters interplay with each other and, uh, how she also doesn’t have to dominate a moment.” Sarah adds, “No one needed her negative energy,” which Luz confirms. Cissy does reiterate that it’s really expensive to animate a face, with its blinking eyes and mouth. Bo does love Boscha, her VA Eden Riegel is so funny and sweet, which makes it so surreal to see such meanness come out of her, but that’s also part of the fun for Bo and Sarah too.

-Sarah liked that Willow “owned it,” “she knew she was a badass”. Gus “really sees her”. As Luz Batista explains, “That was something we kept in mind, when writing this episode, how Gus fits into everything, and how he feels, and what his world is like, and it was nice to kind of explore that with him, I really enjoyed Gus.” Sarah agreed, she wanted to know so much more about his illusions and needed that episode. Illusions and Oracle are Luz Batista’s favorite tracks.

-When discussing how it’s difficult to remember and keep track of so many different storylines, Luz ALMOST mentioned a spoiler, but Sarah stopped her in time.

-Luz said she can’t answer if Gus can see the memories of people he casts under his spell; But with Graye’s mirror… (Note: I feel this is relevant with S3 impending and Hunter’s anxiety over being a Grimwalker, when we saw the episode prior how Gus inflicted Belos’ memories on him and possibly got a glimpse of the creation process.)

-Rebecca confirmed, alas, that the Illusion Coven Teacher doesn’t have a name.

-If they had to pick a track; For King Pecora it was beast-keeping, because he likes spiders, and has a spider tattoo on his neck. He has pet tarantulas, Sarah has a sister-in-law who’s also fond of them; This fact has made Sarah rethink her “Everything but beastkeeping” stance. Bo would have a mix between the Plant and Healing covens. She comes from a family of doctors, which is why the character named after her is in the Healing Track. As Bo says “We got to pick our own incidentals’ tracks.” Cissy reiterates “most of the members of the crew have a character that is kind of loosely based on them in the show,” and Bo added “Especially like the people who worked on Season 1, just because that’s when we were in the very beginning of making all these incidental characters.” She said we’ll see more crew incidentals in the future!!!

-Rebecca would go for beastkeeping because animals and creatures are cool, as well as abominations because of what Amity and Darius have recently done. She also considered Oracle, “it’s like ghosts and stuff”.

-Sarah would be a wild witch, she doesn’t have the discipline to choose.

-Luz Batista reiterated her choice of Illusion and Oracle, and would totally go to school first and THEN break away.

-Bo said they’re not allowed to explain how long it takes for a Titan to grow. She also said that they had to fight to keep the scene revealing that King’s siblings had been murdered, as Disney found it too dark. Sarah retorted that she saw the new Doctor Strange that day and doesn’t want to hear anything from Disney, bewildered that “they came for US?!” Bo confirmed that yes, all those skulls belonged to Titan BABIES, the implications of a lot of these episodes are ‘kinda’ dark.

-When asked why the Collector is called the Grand Huntsman by the Titan Trappers, Bo replied “Yeah I think that’s mostly having to do with their lore and how the Collector presented themselves to them, but y’know- A lot of it has to do with Bill, and Bill, y’know…”

-Luz doesn’t want to know Eberwolf’s age and prefers to think of them as some ageless creature. Everyone at the Post-Hoot didn’t know Eberwolf’s pronouns (but we are told by Dana in another Post-Hoot).

-Bo boarded the scene where the EC surrounded the Owl House. She wouldn’t answer if King had a mother. She was on for the entire run of the show, from the first episode to the end of Season 3; Bo started working in 2017, the year before TOH was first announced. According to Bo, it took over four years to make the show. Cissy’s first audition was in 2018, and she only got called back the next year.

-King (Pecora)’s favorite thing that he personally boarded –that he could remember- was the baby King bits; It was one of his first episodes of the show, King boarded the flashback of when Eda found King. He looks really fondly back at the Raine and Eda fight too, as he doesn’t do action really often well; King really likes Raine and Eda. In general, his second-favorite moment of the show was the stuff in Hollow Mind; His favorite overall is in Season 3.

-Bo tends to board a lot of the emotions, one of her favorite scenes she boarded was the scene between Luz and Amity under the Grom tree, when they talk about Luz’s dad; It was a really personal thing they wanted to add in, so Bo was trying to do it justice. She also loved Ben’s boards for the Reaching Out fight montage (Bo explained they don’t know the titles of episodes, just production codes). She let Ben do his thing, and he did what he did best.

-Rebecca’s favorite moments are from Season 3; Bo mentioned their answers would likely be very different if they could mention S3, it was very fresh in their minds according to Sarah. That said, one of her favorite moments was when Luz, Eda, and King are looking at the Boiling Isles as a whole in Episode 2, and Eda explains to Luz how she needs to take her chance to be a chosen one by making it for herself. Bo noted the lesson was a core theme of the show. Rebecca also liked Luz and Amity’s moment in Covention where Luz reveals her light glyph; Bo boarded the cheek kiss from Through the Looking Glass Ruins, and in response to Rebecca’s confirmation of this, changed her answer to include that moment.

-Luz (Batista) confirmed that “Batata” (sweet potato) was not her idea; In fact, she didn’t know what batata was, because she’d never asked for sweet potatoes in Spanish before. Sarah also didn’t recognize the word. Luz Batista also has favorite moments from S3.

-Rebecca liked Hollow Mind, liked how the Grom tree went full circle in Reaching Out.

-Sarah liked the flashbacks and soft Eda moments of Eda’s Requiem, such as when King announced his Clawthorne adoption. She loved all of Vee’s stuff and her scenes of being out in the world and making friends. Sarah loved the “not-literal” reflection idea, Luz hyping up the human world as the worst, only for Vee to be so happy. She also liked when Camila asked if Luz’s life was so bad here, as it “exposed so many flaws”. Bo boarded that ending scene; Sarah “secretly, selfishly” loves it because it was so sad. She was very excited for Yesterday’s Lie when reading it.

-Bo said Yesterday’s Lie was the first episode they did in quarantine

-Bo said she feels Camila gets a bad rep, she loves Camila so much. “It is one of those things of like yeah we’re mostly following Eda and a few adults, but we really are in the perspective of these young adolescents, so then kind of getting the outside view of like, ‘Oh, how would an adult in our realm actually react to this’, and it was difficult. This prompted Cissy to mention the scene where Eda breaks down in Edge of the World over how Luz and King are just children; Dawn boarded that scene. As Cissy describes it, Eda looked at Lilith and looked so much like a child and she reacted “Oh, baby!”; Bo notes that Eda “IS the younger sister, she’s looking to her older sister for some comfort.”

-Luz Batista’s favorite moment of working on the show was Labyrinth Runners, it’s the happiest moment of her career so far; Boarding AND writing for an episode. She loved seeing the soft side of Hunter. Sarah praised the episode, “I liked seeing them all outside of Luz’s perspective right, because like there’s that sidekick vibe that you can be like ‘What are they really all like’, and I just feel like, we just get such round, like full characters out of all of them, and we just got so much more out of Gus especially, because he’s been Old Faithful, he’s always been there,” Cissy added “there with a joke and like, the Good Old Boi, and to have him really bare his soul was just gorgeous.”

-Bo: “I think genuinely Gus is the person who understands each of them the most”, Luz: “He’s emotionally very present, and keeping up with everyone and noticing, and aware”. Luz Batista wanted to see people talk about their feelings, she makes her friends do it all the time.

-Sarah: “That’s my mark of a true friend, if we can fight about it. Because if we can’t fight, we don’t care enough, if we can really fight –and not like a nasty way, right, I mean sometimes fights get ugly-  but like yeah, if you can say ‘What was THAT’ like y’know”

-Bo: “Like you care enough to communicate, because like if you didn’t care you would just like, let it go”

-Sarah: “You have to be able to fight and be like ‘Oh you know what, I’m sorry actually’, when [Hunter] said that ‘I was horrible and I shouldn’t have done that’ it was really beautiful.”

-Sarah said god bless Hunter for finding the wherewithal to be a good friend, because he’s had NO modeling for that, no good relationships for that. Luz Batista added how it was without Luz’s help at the moment as well, “Luz is such a catalyst for everyone to change, where, these people all existed before she got there, you know and, they got around, they made friends, so this is nice that he’s able to find a community to kind of feel safe in.” Sarah liked to see Hunter get his strength back for a moment when he called out Severine as a fake Willow.

-Luz Batista boarded the bit where Hunter and Gus just sit down and talk, the intro of Labyrinth Runners, “Aah my head”, and the counting scene (Batista has to do the counting herself at times).

-Batista discussed how it was an important skill to learn to open up about feelings, not everyone has a Gus around the corner; A lot of people are like Amity with repressed feelings, Bo adds. Sarah quoted Shrek’s onion quote when mentioning how she thinks that a lot of people don’t really know that they’re repressing; A friend can help people realize those feelings.

-Luz Batista is working on Moon Girl and Devil Dinosaur!

-This fact is self-indulgent for me, but on the day of this Post-Hoot the Evil Dead game came out, which is a dream come true for Cissy; Army of Darkness is one of her favorite movies, so to be a part of that game and universe is heaven for her.

[httyddragonfox]

Caleb Wittebane and what the Hexsquad knows.

So...we didn't get further elaboration on Caleb, we didn't even get a shot of him in the finale. Everyone is saying no one really knows who Caleb was, or if he was evil or not. Of course, they may know more than we think. Let's break down the information the hexsquad has gathered about Caleb in comparison to what we have gathered about Caleb.

First indication for the audience: the grimwalker notes in Eclipse Lake. People looked up what an ortet is, and found out that 'bone of ortet' means bone of the original. The pictures in the book looked a lot like Hunter, we therefore deduced that Hunter is a clone. Before that we thought he was an artificial being meant to be in some ritual of some sort. Even after deducing he was a clone, we rationalized he the original had a purpose to serve which Hunter being a clone could accomplish.

The second indication: Yesterday's Lie. As Vee is walking around town, she passes a statue of someone who looks like Hunter. I'm not sure when people started theorizing that Belos was Phillip, but this made it stronger, so they believed that when Belos came to the isles he had a brother whom he missed and tried to bring back.

Later in the episode we get the FIRST indication of the main characters finding out about him: Jacob's research. "...tragedy struck! Two brothers met a witch and were lured into the Demon Realm, never to be seen again." The second brother is holding a glyph while the first brother has a cardinal on his shoulder, maybe a certain cardinal that Hunter has. This is where the audience learns, that if Belos is Phillip, he had a brother who he must have lost tragically (maybe at eclipse lake?) and he brought him back. The main characters would probably overlook this as a crazy conspiricist talking. So, while they learn about the fact, they probably don't remember it.

In Hunter's palisman observations, another audience tidbit, it is revealed the palisman's name is Flapjack, and Hunter does not know what that is, yet Belos does. Witches do not know flapjacks or pancakes, and Belos does. This hints that Belos is human, and so Hunter is a clone of that Human brother, and Flapjack was his palisman. Flapjack doesn't like talking about it, so he must have died tragically. Hunter knows nothing about Caleb about this point, but we know a good amount. For one, the brother must've been a friendly guy if he had a palisman, named after pancakes no less.

Elsewhere and Elsewhen: We find out that Belos is Phillip from 400 years ago. Hunter is definitely a clone of that brother, especially when Luz discovers a small drawing of him which Phillip won't talk about. We still assume he died at eclipse lake, and at the end of the episode he has all he needs to make a grimwalker. Luz was slightly curious about this other figure in the picture, as Phillip never mentioned a companion in his journal. Of course, she drops it when he claims it's private. Doesn't think about it for a while.

Any sport in a storm: we find out the symbol of Gravesfield is the sigil of the Golden guard. Belos came from there, and associates his grimwalker's allegiance to be there as well. Also Flapjack gives the name Caleb to Hunter, so we can guess that the brother's name was Caleb.

So far, the protagonists know nothing except small hints that don't focus on.

Now onto reveals for the cast, and heavy ones for us.

Hollow Mind: The memory portraits spoke for themselves, screaming about how amazing Caleb was and how Belos is a monster. Some people were not sure if they were related yet, as Belos called him an old friend. They were friends as children at least, Caleb being slightly older, them rejoicing the witch hunting and playing witch hunter. Then Caleb met the witch, happily, and ended up in the boiling ilses, eventually Phillip followed, and found Caleb had fallen in love, and started a family with a witch. Some people assumed they both went there at the same time, but got separated. Everyone just jumped on the wittewife is a clawthorne theory for how similar she looks to the clawthorne ladies. Not to mention the portal being right behind the clawthorne house. Anyways, Phillip was furious, and despite everything (including Caleb accepting his condition, willing to live peacefully with him) Phillip couldn't stand it. It's debated whether he wished to kill Caleb or Evelyn, but the brothers ended up fighting to the death. Wittewife was furious, and blasted magic at him. Phillip eventually turned into Belos, making TONS of grimwalkers. This went beyond what we originally thought, where Hunter was the only one. Oh no, Belos wanted his brother back so much, he made him several times over, "destroying them" whenever they "betray him." More hints that Caleb was a good person, as Belos is evil and they all betrayed him. He calls them all a singular "he," which he is trying to remake someone who "betrayed" him, someone whose betrayals "hurt him." Luz asks Belos what Hunter is supposed to be, and Belos says "he's a better version of an old friend." He also says Hunter "Looks the most like him."

So the audience was wrong about Hunter being an ingredient, just someone Belos wants around. Also, this isn't his first rodeo, not in a long shot. Belos made and killed his brother several times.

What can Luz and Hunter gather from this? They didn't look at the portraits, but the golden guards sounded like Hunter, Belos says they all betrayed him, Hunter looks the most like him, and he's a better version of an old friend. They know what this guy sounded like, what he looks like, that he was close with Belos, but they had a falling out.

That's a brass tacks summary of Caleb. They also learned Belos is a witch hunter. Hunter will process that in his own time, Luz is dealing with her guilt of helping the one that's alive.

In labyrinth runners, Hunter did his research on Grimwalkers while on the lamb. He knows he's probably the only one to exist at the moment, and probably learns how they're made. Bone of ortet, he learns therefore he is a clone, made from the original's bones.

Clouds on the Horizon: Hunter details to Luz what he knows about himself. He's not sure if he's witch or human, but he knows he's a copy of someone (who was human), and considering Belos killed all the other grimwalkers for betrayal he probably killed the original too for the same reason. Hunter probably just doesn't know how the betrayal happened.

King's Tide: When confronted by Belos, Belos sees Flapjack and screams out Caleb's name. This confirms for us that the brother's name was Caleb. Also confirms for us that Flapjack did in fact belong to him. Of course, in the chaos of the moment, they probably didn't register the name, it was very garbled. On the other hand, Gus got a peek into Belos' mind and worst memories, he sees the memory portraits. In Labyrinth runners, it shows his spells play the memories like videos, so Gus probably got the flashback episode we wanted. The memories he sees: Phillip going to attack the couple, the fight, Caleb being dead, and the creation of the first Grimwalker. He probably learned that Caleb was swell (not wanting to fight his brother and being married to a witch), and Phillip killed him due to his bigotry. Yet he loved his brother, so he made the grimwalkers. Gus would probably feel very sorry for Hunter, mainly because of the purpose of his existence piled onto his hard life under Belos. Gus may have caught the name, who knows?

Thanks to Them: This is the closest we get to Wittebane lore. Hunter tells Luz he believes his original was a witch hunter like Belos, who hunted witches with him. Hunter probably assumed the betrayal happened but they were both evil. Hunter does his research on the Witch Hunters to try to find out what he can about his original. He probably finds out Caleb's name and relation to Belos, but the book probably described them hunting witches. He sees Caleb in a reflection (not sure how that happened, maybe Caleb was checking up on him, maybe there was a drawing in the book?) We see him sad, forlorn, and gaunt. Maybe the struggle of living in old Gravesfield had a toll on him that Belos didn't choose to remember. Flapjack finds a box under the floorboards of the shack, which confirms for us that the Wittebanes lived there. Of course, they probably wouldn't put together how Flapjack knew it was there, and Flapjack won't tell Hunter anything. Gus and Willow see the statue that looks like Hunter, and Gus confirms later he knew that was the statue of his original. Later the kids hear the historical legend of the Wittebanes. Caleb was the older brother, they became witch hunters to fit in with the town. The older brother was spirited away by a witch, after being dazzled by magic and another world and journeying between the two worlds a few times, (Puppet drops his pitchfork), Phillip ran off to save him and kill the witch, but never returned. Masha summs it up as Caleb getting a hot witch girlfriend and Phillip getting upset about it. Hunter puts it together that the rebus they found belonged to Caleb and Evelyn, as "the code the guide mentioned, it's a rebus. We found one in the shack." Hunter may have also put together that while Caleb was a witch hunter, he gave it up when he met Evelyn; he went to live with her, and Belos saw that as a betrayal and killed him. So he probably knows now that Caleb is not terrible, but he was still a Witch hunter. When confronting Belos, Belos implaes Flapjack after calling him Evelyn, that and the cardinal in the puppet show, the group might put together that Flapjack knew that couple from hundreds of years ago. Yet, they were also in shock from what was happening, so they might have had trouble processing it.

Not much more lore is explored, except for showing us that he feels guilty about killing Caleb and the Grimwalkers but we already knew that.

So Gus probably knows the most out of the entire group, and they can assume that Caleb wasn't evil, and who Hunter is supposed to be a copy of. Yet it doesn't matter, as Hunter is Hunter.

TL;DR Based on everything gathered, the hexsquad do know about Caleb and the fallout between him and Belos. They only thing they don't know is much about Evelyn. Just upset we didn't get that in flashback form. Yet we already knew about it too.

[thousand-winters]

For the toh asks, 3, 6, 7, 12!!

Hey there 💕

3. Favorite episode? Why? Ramble as much as you'd like.

Man, this one's really hard because TOH has SUCH good episodes, but I'm going to have to go with what I believe is ultimately the popular answer and say Hollow Mind.

It's just so well done, it's been said again and again but the way they make the reveal of past foreshadowing (Belos being Philip Wittebane, Hunter being a grimwalker) is SO good. Even if you knew or strongly suspected, the way they do it makes it so the impact is perfect, both on the plot going forward and the emotional impact it has on the characters as well (like even if Luz doesn't immediately crumble like Hunter does, you can tell it gets to her and it starts building up overtime until it gets to her being full of guilt and straight up suicidal which... uh oh).

The way they make use of established lore with the mindscape, the foreshadowing and more lore we get for the future (wooo for Wittebanes lore but rip for Flapjack) is just so damn cool. Even while filled with dread while watching, the episode is just so engaging to watch that you can get pretty much focused on it during rewatches as well.

Plus, when it comes to more self-indulgent feelings, Hunter finally getting out from the castle and away from Belos + the papa wold Dadrius moment are just too good for me not to enjoy it. Oh! And on that note, Hunter straight up having a panic attack when they got out of the mindscape also was 10/10 for me, because I'm just not used to media addressing how traumatizing some situations can be for the characters, ngl, I was SO happy to see it and even happier when it continued in Labyrinth Runners, as weird as it sounds.

6. A character you didn't expect to love? What made you start liking them?

Not in a dislike sense at all, but definitely Darius lmao.

I vaguely remember seeing him for the first time and thinking "oh, he's so fun, he has such a cool design as well, and his voice is pretty, it's a shame he's a villain. Anyway-" and just continuing being invested in the Raeda disaster happening right there.

Truly I also found his abomination transformation the coolest thing I've ever seen, but in my mind it was like "we're surely not seeing much of him, oh, well" (which is sadly true, but not in the way I thought), so with such an "unimportant" character, there was no way for me to get invested or love him, right?

WRONG. Dadrius attack.

Listen. Listen. I liked him as a character but not so much as a person, I suppose, though again I never hated him because there was just so little of him for that to happen. But then Any Sport in a Storm happened and watching him doing the Head Chop™️ to Hunter was like "god, I hope this doesn't awaken anything in me".

I think from that moment I started toying with the possibility of him adopting Hunter because I was desperate so it was half joking, half serious and as such, I started thinking more about him as well, which eventually ended up with me and my thousand headcanons and theories about him, his backstory and such. As it happens when you're a Darius fan, it's rough out here.

7. Has the show ever made you cry? What scene(s)?

I cry. so much.

So TOH absolutely got to me. I think the first scene that got to me was the one that gets to everyone, Eda thanking Luz for being in her life and telling her goodbye before transforming into the Owl Beast.

And then you know, Season 2 is life ruining /lh.

So I cried in Separate Tides in the same part Luz wants to cry lmao, I cried in Eda's Requiem, I cried in Reaching Out, I cried in O Titan, I cried in King's Tide.

Shoutout to me crying also at Hunter talking about being unable to trust himself in Labyrinth Runners, and I still can't watch Keeping Up A-fear-ances without crying, that one's hitting a little too close to home for comfort, frankly lmao.

I think the rest is also very predictable, Thanks to Them when Flapjack died, For the Future during Camila and Luz's conversation and Watching and Dreaming when Luz dies and pretty much the whole scene with the Owl Trio fighting together, plus the ending. Like I said, I cry a lot.

12. What do you consider the most memorable scene? Why?

Another hard one.

Objectively speaking, I feel like there are two super memorable scenes: The repetition of Luz's speech about "I'm the good witch!" through the show and the way it gets recontextualized each time, from it being just kinda silly and about her using it as escapism a little bit, to her using it to reclaim her belonging to the two worlds she chose for herself and her identity as part of them with all the people she loves.

I would call that one probably the most memorable one. I think the other that everyone remembers, which is why I would say it's memorable as well, is Eda telling Luz the whole thing about how everyone was to be chosen, but if one just waited for that, they'd die waiting, that you have to choose yourself. Even more memorable since it came back during Watching and Dreaming.

Personally, definitely less sweet and less overall plot important, but a scene that haunts me forever and ever is the palisman souls in Belos' Mind finally reaching Luz and Hunter and the reveal that they're palisman souls in the first place: It's so damn chilling when they start talking with the whole "danger! get away from him! run!". Just... holy shit. Okay, that makes me one to cry too, we have established I'm a crybaby ajsfjsdg

I'm just... the amount of compassion for them to be suffering like that and to go "this happened to us, he killed us, please, get away, we don't want him to kill you too, we don't want you to suffer too", especially considering that Hunter had accidentally contributed in some of those deaths. I'm gonna go cry some more, actually, bye asfhsdg

Thanks for the questions 💗

From this ask meme

[pandoratheprocrasticreator]

i rewatched hollow mind for the 928342398402394th time and a thought came to me: did luz still think hunter was one of “the bad guys” in the first half of the episode?

bc, like, the first time she ever met hunter, he threatened to drown king and tried to coerce her into killing a cute animal. the second time she meets him, he stole a bunch of palismen for belos to eat, tied her up, and chased her through latissa even after she saved him. sure, they have a heart to heart and ended up making a pretty good team. hunter even saves her from kikimora at the end. but from luz’s expression as she escapes, and her “bad but sad boy” description after the fact, she very much understands where hunter’s loyalties lie.

when she asks hunter why he “decided to join the emperor’s coven,” his answer implies he did so out of thanks for belos taking him in - aka, joining the coven was his own choice. we the audience know at that point that belos is hunter’s uncle and can therefore infer that this isn’t the case, but luz doesn’t know that. for all she knows, hunter had as much of a choice to join the coven as lilith did - knowing all the shady things that belos did and deciding to work for him anyway.

luz is way too forgiving of others to blame hunter for it, especially after he saved her from kikimora. and after she’s endeared herself to hunter, she also knows he’s not as big of a threat to her as before. so she texts hunter to ask him for dirt on belos. she tackles him in an alleyway to do the same. but judging by how she, and in extension eda and king, treat him, they still think he’s a villain. a less threatening, kind of funny, and redeemable villain, but a villain at the moment nonetheless. a villain who knows what he’s doing is wrong and can stop working for belos at any time, but keeps doing it regardless.

and honestly, hunter’s actions before hollow mind don’t do him any favors. he attacks amity, even when she was trying to help him. he threatens luz’s safety to steal the titan blood. he tried to kidnap willow and gus’s entire flyer derby team. luz probably heard about his heart to heart with amity, his mental breakdown at eclipse lake, and how he saved the flyer derby team at the end, but that’s in line with what she already knows. he’s capable of becoming friends with her and the gang, but he’s still too dangerous and too loyal to belos to trust and work with. and all of this is, in luz’s mind, still hunter’s choice.

and then at the start of hollow mind, hunter explains a little about his backstory. but crucially, he doesn’t tell luz, or any of her friends before this point, his relationship with belos. he says “wild magic destroyed our family,” but keeps it vague enough and still addresses belos by name. the audience knows that hunter means “him and belos’s family” when he says “our family,” but luz has no reason to think hunter and belos are related. to her, hunter could just mean “me and my other relatives who died.”

in belos’s memories, hunter and the other golden guards also never refer to belos as “uncle,” so luz still doesn’t find out about the familial relation. what she does find out about are belos’s crimes throughout the centures. and she found out that the past golden guards not only knew about belos’s cruelty, but actively helped him hurt people. hunter trying to justify belos’s actions further confirmed luz’s view that hunter was okay with belos’s cruelty and probably did horrible things similar to the other guards. then hunter revealed that he helped belos build a new portal, cementing the idea that he wasn’t on luz’s side. by the point they see the collector, luz automatically assumes hunter also knows about it - the golden guard knew about every awful thing that belos did, after all, and helped him regardless.

but hunter doesn’t know about the collector. and then luz gets to see how belos actually treats hunter behind the scenes. the collector says that belos “created” hunter, and while luz doesn’t know what that means, she understands that hunter is in danger. he wasn’t voluntarily helping belos with all his misdeeds. hunter is being abused and threatened into doing whatever belos wants. all of his past actions - how he repeatedly befriended and worked with luz and her friends but backstabbed them to complete a mission for belos - he didn’t do that just out of loyalty to belos. he did that because he was scared of what belos would do to him if he failed.

luz just saw the aftermath of eclipse lake. hunter basically won that confrontation. he got the portal key, but because amity broke the key, belos almost tried to hurt him anyway. if that’s how belos treated hunter in a semi successful mission, then how did he treat him when luz took the palismen? what happened when willow and gus left him with a - for all they know - angry, scythe-wielding coven head after hunter directly went against him? hunter told luz the first time they met that “the emperor is not a merciful man,” but she never thought that that would extend to hunter himself.

and then she sees the memories of the previous golden guards’ deaths. when hunter talks to belos, he refers to the other golden guards as “our family.” and it’s only then that luz realizes that belos and hunter are related. no wonder hunter worked for belos all this time despite everything - belos is hunter’s family. he’s supposed to protect him. and yet hunter is terrified out of his mind of his uncle. for good reason - because belos almost kills him right in front of luz. then he even nonchalantly talks about making another one, like hunter didn’t even matter.

it’s after luz sees hunter and belos’s dynamic that she asks hunter to stay in the owl house. and after they leave belos’s mind, luz becomes noticeably gentler to him. she “bullied” him before, which the fandom attributes to the cain instinct but also luz seems to feel justified in lightly ribbing a “bad guy” who works for belos. but after hollow mind, she completely shifts from teasing him to worrying about his well being every time she sees him.

she tries to go after hunter when he has a panic attack and bolts after getting out of belos’s mind. she tries to tell her friends what happened and tells them not to “scare [hunter] away.” when she sees hunter again in clouds on the horizon, the first thing she does is to ask if he’s okay. then when kikimora threatens him, she defends him and even takes his place as her prisoner, because now luz knows what belos does to disloyal golden guards. what he was about to do to hunter in his mind. in season 3, we can see this eventually made hunter trust luz enough to overshare ALL of his baggage with her, instead of just a little before lol.

idk what the point of writing all this was but i think it’s interesting how hollow mind changed luz’s view on both belos AND hunter. she doesn’t just feel more sorry for him now that she knows about his relationship with belos, she was actively wary of him before that. and before seeing belos’s memory of the collector, she was becoming more and more distrustful of hunter as they went through belos’s mind. but the last memory they saw not only showed luz that hunter needed her help, but that he wasn’t fully complicit in belos’s crimes out of choice, as she would have reasonably concluded previously. that, in addition to his other encounters with her and her friends, probably came a long way in improving their trust in each other post-hollow mind.

[sabindark]

Runaway Grimwalker Au

”You say that Belos is dead..„

”- But why do I still get the feeling that this is not true?„

[asherisawkward]

Before "For the Future" came out, I came up with an idea for AU. Even then I suspected that Belos would be given a stupid death, so I came up with an alternative ending in advance. I suddenly remembered this and decided to ask what you think about it.

So, Belos is defeated. But a piece of him falls into the time pool and ends up in the past, before Day of Unity. A piece of Belos crawls to the castle and merges with Belos from the past.

Knowing how it will end, Belos decides to speed things up. As far as I remember, I was thinking that he was destroying the entire population of the Boiling Island with his own hands, but now I think the option where Day of Unity goes according to plan from beginning to end looks much more logical.

He keeps the Collector’s tablet with him until the very end to make sure that no one frees the Collector. He petrifies Luz and then kills the HexSquad. He leaves King alive, because he knows that he is a Titan. He needs a source of Titan's blood.

After making sure that all the witches who were in the covens are dead, Phillip uses the Abomatons to finish what he started. This is how children and teenagers die. After that, he throws away the Collector’s tablet and goes to the human realm, where he kills Vee and Camilla.

Standing in the middle of the blood-soaked living room, Philip thinks about what to do next. He has achieved his goal, the last victim of the witches and almost the last magical creature are now dead, their bodies are lying on the floor. The last magical creature, King, is now sleeping in his bag, drugged by magic.

He begins to explore the house and the things in it. He quickly understands how to use a computer and begins to look for the information he is interested in. He quickly learns that the witch hunt ended three centuries ago, no one believes that magic and witches are real, and witch hunters are considered bloodthirsty maniacs.

Philip doesn't know what to do. After a couple of days of living in the human realm, after reading a lot of interesting information, he returns to the demon realm and finds a time pool. He returns to the past, without King, and finds his version from this time to fuse again.

And so, the whole idea is that Philip returns to the past several times, merges with himself to avoid time paradoxes, and lives in an attempt to figure out what to do. After he found out that his goals are meaningless, he reluctantly decides that ruling the devil's spawn was more pleasant than being nobody in a world where your deeds are considered a terrible evil.

So, returning to the past once again, he cancels Day of Unity, saying that the witches upset the Titan. I don't really remember exactly what time Philip got there. Perhaps he came before the events of the Hollow Mind. Since Unity Day is canceled, this episode just doesn't happen. Hunter is still loyal to Belos.

I don't remember exactly how many times Philip goes to the past, and what exactly he does there, but the idea is that he is gradually changing, because he knows how the human realm has changed. He tries to study every possible situation, like Flowey from Undertale.

I remember for sure that one time he got into the past before Manny Noseda died. Philip cured him, because at that time he knew that Camilla is a wonderful person, and Noseda's family moved to the Boiling Isles.

Another idea is that Philip was once in Gravity Falls. And the third idea is that eventually Philip will get tired of this chronofantastic. He decides that he will not go back to the past anymore. However, Luz and Amity die, and he decides to rethink his decision. He makes grimwalkers out of their bones, seven grimwalkers out of Luz's bones, and seven grimwalkers out of Amity's bones. He plans to go back in time, erase his memory of time travel and live everything like the very first time. And the grimwalkers will have to make sure that he dies, and does not go back to the past. He uses the memory gun he took from Gravity Falls.

Returning to the events of For the Future, Luz stumbles upon a group of witches in cloaks who catch Belos. She follows them. These witches were grimwalkers mentioned above, who did not dare to let Belos die. They restore his memories and he is not happy. And Luz is in shock.

I don't remember how or why, but Belos and Luz go to another world. Due to the fact that Philip merged with his versions from the past, he did not change the past, but created new timelines. A bunch of worlds came into existence thanks to him, and time in them goes synchronously.  Like, "For the Future" is happening in all these worlds, and there are even Philips there. If I remember correctly, in the finale, Philip somehow forced all these timelines to come together into one, like in Rick and Morty.

What do you think about this concept?

I think it’s absolutely brilliant! The idea of Philip learning the futility and brutality of his own goals through their success is tragic and horrific! Combine that with his slow descent into madness as he tries to control all the variables and get the “good” ending where everyone survives, and it’s absolutely fascinating!

There are almost limitless ways this could be explored or worked upon. He could go back and try to stop himself from killing Caleb or undo the Coven System entirely! I adore the idea that he eventually becomes fond of the Hexsquad due to their position in both his downfall and his growth. It’s because of them that he does and learns the error of his ways. And, the human who has been so insistent that he’s wrong about things has turned out to be right.

He would be devastated when he started losing people and kept having to try to make things perfect again. Philip’s mental state would be so fascinating to study and monitor over this time, and I’d be mesmerized by the way that he changes as he lives through various timelines!

I mean, he’s get to grow and develop, change and live, learn, and forgive. He’d get the opportunity to make better choices, but he’s still incredibly human and makes mistakes. It would also be fascinating to watch him track what Time Pools go to where and at what time/place they are in.

And Philip wanting to settle down somewhere peaceful and forget about what happened with his time travel powers would be deeply sad. He’d be forgetting g the cause and journey that led to his growth in the first place, and it’d be a shame.

Luz would be incredibly confused by the whole situation and the vastly different lives that Philip has lived. This is a man who has done horrible things and attempted to (and, in some cases, succeeded) commit genocide. Worlds where he is good or less of an awful person wouldn’t make a lot of sense. Still, I think she’d be a bit disappointed when they had to fix the timeline. After all, he’s changed so much that he hardly seems like the man she knew before.

This is such an incredible, creative idea, Anon!!!! Thank you for sharing it with me!

[lampmanliveblogs]

I love how even though he had his artificial magic staff with him, he still reflexively summons Little Rascal instead. It’s a great subtle way to show how used he is to it now and how naturally it comes to him.

Oh, and aI heard the distinctive noise of glass shattering as Hunter stepped on the vial. Time for a journey into Philip Wittebane’s lateral ventricles.

(g-get it? because the lateral ventricles are hollow parts of the brain and the episode is called hollow mind. please think i’m smart)

Soooo… Luz, are you going to acknowledge that Hunter called Belos his uncle any time soon, or…? No? Just checking. I kinda felt like it should warrant a bit more of a reaction, but whatever.

Oh, you never found out what happened to the previous Golden Guard? And in just a second, you’ll mention that Darius looks sad in the painting. And the previous Golden Guard was Darius mentor… so I’d venture to guess that whatever fate befell the previous Golden Guard  was not a happy one. Perhaps he learned too much and had to be, ah… relieved of duty. By which I mean ”killed.”

That could definitely be one of the reasons Darius turned traitor, if his mentor that he had a great deal of respect and admiration for was killed or petrified.

We got a better look at some of the paintings and learned some more stuff.

Hunter says that he ”inherited” his staff, implying that the previous Golden Guard had the same artificial magic staff. Which further implies that the previous Golden Guard couldn’t use magic either. Unless the staff just gave him a boost or whatever. But if the previous GG couldn’t use magic, then that adds some interesting context to what Darius was talking about in Any Sport In A Storm.

Hunter also says that [his and Belos’] family was destroyed by wild magic gone out of control and that that’s why Belos created the Coven system, in addition to it pleasing the Titan (how convenient!). It’s interesting though that he says that the coven sigils protect [witches] from themselves. So they exist to keep magic in check so that it doesn’t go out of control and hurt someone. Which sounds reasonable enough that one could justify it as being a necessary evil. Sacrificing a bit of freedom for security. That’s worth it, right?

Hello, uh… tiny purple child. What the heck are you supposed to be? Inner Belos/Philip? Some remnant of his humanity trapped within the twisted corridors of his corrupted mind?

Here’s a better look. We can see that what I’m tentatively going to call Philip as a child is wearing a mask carved out of wood. The general shape and the horns attached make it look like a primitive version of Belos' mask. He is also carrying a tiny wooden toy sword. That in particular makes me think that this might be a memory of some game Philip played with his brother as a kid. The mask might’ve been part of it, he’s dressing up as a monster or something. So I suppose it’s only fitting that the adult version of him, who became a monster, would put on a similar mask.

[emeraldart]

2, 9, 18 from this ask game

2. Labyrinth Runners! This is honestly a pretty random episode but I’m obsessed with it for many many reasons. Mostly being Gus characterization. We get it in other episodes (Looking Glass Ruins, Something Ventured Someone Framed) but I didn’t really relate it as much? (I was the youngest in all my classes, which Gus mentions in SVSF but just due to a late birthday, I didn’t actually skip a grade.) But OH MY GOD, Gus’s whole thing on worrying about friends with ulterior motives got to me. He’s so me fr. Plus, Hunter got a found family! They have Luz, Amity, and Willow! My babies have a support system! Also, the whole Amity and Willow subplot was nice because I could tell they wanted to talk about it more but they made it work with the shortening. They made Amity like the perfect mix of her condescension we see when she’s introduced along with her desire to change. Also, there’s so many little ship crumbs within a found family friendship episode so it’s very fluffy and nice and sweet. I did miss Luz but I kinda love “what’s up with the other guys” episodes in shows. 9. There’s some pretty clear indication Hunter would’ve stayed at the Owl House, so I think we would’ve got that. There’s a few subplots I think they’d touch on, like with the Bat Queen’s whistle and the Galderstones. Probably a lot more silly bonding episodes to work on character dynamics. I think there’d be at least one subplot (other than the Hollow Mind one) of Raine Darius and Eber. 18. Mostly the redeemed antagonists. Here’s a little list:

Amity: She just seemed like she was there to add drama but by Covention I had a feeling there was more to her. I didn’t see her becoming a love interest at first but discovering the mean girl was actually a disaster lesbian won me over. Lilith: I was pretty suspicious of her but I didn’t think she cursed Eda at first. When I found out she did, I wasn’t really that mad because I felt we’d get an explanation soon. I was just kind of annoyed at her for picking fights with kids a lot. I think around Keeping Up A-fear-Ances, when we see that most of her rudeness and childishness isn’t actually from a place of malice and she does care for King and Luz I liked her. Hunter: Kind of a more basic story. I kind of expected another Kikimora but then he wasn’t another Kikimora. Yay. Mattholomule: I honestly still don’t like him. It’s just an affectionate hatred now. Little weasel rat man. Skara: Idk why I didn’t like her at first but I didn’t. Maybe she was mean to Willow? At some random point I saw art with her or something and decided she was just a silly little guy.

[universeskies]

The Owl House - Thanks To Them: Luz's Healing and Internal Guilt

So, I wanted to talk about something really interesting and something that I also enjoy with how the episode, "Thanks to Them" really adresses and adresses it quite beautifully well and such. So lets start about what the main talk will be about this one.

And that is about Luz's Healing, and Her Internal Guilt which in a way I've seen people talking about per say how Luz in a sense, is having trust issues with the Hexsquad and keeping secrets to not only them, but also Her Love ones such as Her Mom and Awesome Girlfriend. Now then, with that... I wanna say that in a sense, saying that Luz shouldn't do that, that Luz should've told Them immediately or at the very least be honest with Them and that isn't fair for either Amity or Hexsquad to keep it a secret. I've seen this, and I just wanna say that isn't Fair of asking that to Luz or making it seem like the picture is all black or white. Not everything goes One-Side. And I wanna talk about this per Say and ramble about it per say too hehe.

Lets go back into Season 2's Episode "Hollow Mind" where Belos reveals the truth to Luz about Everything and how He got to meet the Collector and everything that We see come into fruit. That alone, should really tell that Luz, alongside everyone in a sense, where Victims of Belos' Manipulation. How basically Belos manipulated and tricked Her into helping Him get the Round Boi to get contact within The Collector.

From this alone, I feel that is clear that Luz already feels quite horrible about hearing such horrifying truth. She can't even truly express it until around two days later perhaps as We see in "Edge of the World".

This.

This face alone, tells Everything. And Eda's quote of "Luz is finally ready to speak." shows that of course Eda, King and Hooty wanted to know what really happen in Belos' Mind but Luz couldn't talk. She couldn't say anything. We see how absolutely mortified She is and the thing is. She is Scared. She is scared to even tell what happen with Her words because in Her mind, She helped a WITCH HUNTER. She helped Belos get what He wanted and She doesn't know how Eda, King or Hooty would react. From this scene alone where Everyone is HORRIFIED to know the Truth, Luz doesn't speak, and You can see that everything was explained through drawings. She can't or doesn't want to say those words. Luz is expecting a bad reaction because of Everything that Belos has done, and Eda herself even explains that is Too much to process. And it is True. After that truth revealed, where basically the Ruler and supposed Witch Emperor of all Boiling Isles turns out to be a Genocidal Witch Hunter close to finally complete His goal on Finishing ALL that is in the Demon Realm, I wouldn't know how to react at that info.

And Luz knows this. Luz expected a bad reaction, and thankfully the most She got was just a very scared reaction from Them, but soon enough composed Themselves to give Luz the care and Love and Comfort that She so much needed after a Huge Terrible experience. And that is...where it begins the process of Her healing. Luz slowly is healing, but also She is having what is a Self-reproach. A sense of guilt and Blames Herself. Which honestly, She is 14 or 15 Years Old. Like Eda said, She isn't suppose to go through or deal witha nything of that.

She feels responsable for everything that has been going on in the Day of Unity, that She has a personal responsability or a goal to amend or atone for Her "Sins" per say. She is still young and has gone through a lot in Her life even before Season 2 or 1. The girl went through so much pain and grief and yet even then, found Herself smiling and enjoying life once again. She heals, but is it truly over? No. Because those moments are stuck there and despite sometimes wanting that to just ease from existing, its about Keep Moving Forward and look into the Future. Which "Thanks to Them" so much BEAUTIFULLY captures great!

Luz is still healing, but She enjoys the little calms and small breaks that Life blesses upon Her and Her Love Ones. They deserve a moment to unwind and enjoy Their lives. And honestly, The Hexsquad going on to just FULLY Support Luz and immediately knowing well that none of what happen is Her Fault is just done SO GREAT and Beautiful that is really Heartwarming to see. Amity Loves Her so much. She Loves Her and Luz Loves Her dearly so much back and They both will defend Each Other. But not only them of course, Willow, Gus, and Hunter absolutely will support Luz with Their lives too and vice-versa. What is Great is also How Luz did plan to tell Them about the truth in Her due and comfort time. One could say that She still held the secret to Amity, Willow and Gus alongside Camila and Vee. When She told both Eda, King, and Hooty and Hunter knew of course, but even then, We go back with the the Reproach and the Fears. Luz is scared. She isn't sure what reactions could be and the Fear and Trauma, She went through can really be damaging. Can You really blame Her for that? I feel that Luz having that flaw is what makes Her so much Human and such a Great character, because even through fears, We all can do hasty decisions, because We're scared. It can happen, and its Okie-Dokie. Through the end of the Day, We all can Grow and get Stronger and always go through the worst moments with Our Love ones. No matter what.

"Thanks to Them" represents that So GREAT and it comes full circle in "For the Future" with Luz coming into terms about that. She felt understood, and She realizes that nothing has to be faced alone or that situations out of Our Control, means its automatically Our Fault. What is to take of all this? That is okay and excusable to lie? To hide secrets? Nope! What is to take About this is That even When situations are really rough and tough, There Will always be Someone That Will be there for You. Perhaps you may Not feel it, But There Will be. And That through The worse, They Will stick with You and That is Best to see what goes on and what could be happening. Cause The act of Support, no matter How small it is, it's always quite helpful and life-saving.

I Love this Show So Much.

[al-n-cartoons]

Let's talk about season three of The Owl House, shall we?

Hi, I’m Wakerrife, and I have thoughts about season three of The Owl House. Here I shall discuss how episode three could have been so much better.

There are a lot of issues with the writing this season, and I mean that in a very particular way: the serious events is good, but the focus on characters (thus the emotions) rather sucks. It’s clear that, given the shortened run time, the show has increasingly been cramping its story tighter and tighter so as to cover as much as it can and that’s a problem. The character beats ring hollow.

For the Future just bounces from different plots for different characters the entire time, each person being some degree of miserable, the tone is saturated (more on that later). With the time restrictions in mind, the show’s priorities should have been re-evaluated and subsequently dealt with.

Take Hunter for example. What happens to him at the end of Thanks to Them is atrocious and it’s barely story relevant. He certainly acts the part for what’s happened to him (being restless, irritable, and teary) but it’s peripheral at best. Honestly, I would have preferred Thanks to Them be the last episode he plays a pivotal role in because (1) you do not kill someone’s closest loved one and then have that not be central focus and (2) in spite being many people’s favourite character (myself included), he was introduced to the show far later than the others, thus his story should be allowed to wrap up before the show ends so as to allow focus to be given to the characters built into the show (Luz, Willow, Gus, King, and Eda).

There are inklings in For the Future of an amazing story idea for Hunter where him having Flapjack’s magic is a show that one’s loved ones will always be with them, but because it’s barely a part of the story we get, it should have been cut.

Keep the fight scene in Thanks to Them, keep Hunter being paranoid and lashing out, keep the possession, keep Belos going after Flapjack– all of that could work and was great to see), but have Flapjack be injured or have Hunter fight off Belos the moment Flapjack gets put in harm's way.

Actually, heck, move the fight scene to be earlier in the episode, maybe about midway through. Why would we do that, you might ask? Simple, make the fight and Flapjack getting hurt not be the climax but the catalyst. What’s the point of this episode? It’s titled “Thanks to Them”. Really think of it for a second: Thanks. To. Them. Willow has things to be thankful for regarding the Boiling Isles, as do Gus, Luz, and Amity. Hunter has only pain, isolation, scorn, and fear to associate with the Isles (save for maybe near the very end when Willow and Gus adopt this sassy stray). The human world thus far has been a place of peace for him, take the scene in which Hunter talks about sewing and wolves. Take Gus’ response of being disheartened to what he has lost (his father and home). There is a split in priorities, use it.

In the human realm, Hunter seems to have settled into a far more domestic role. He enjoys passive activities (sewing) that keep him productive and allow for him to relax. Make then the threat of combat horrifying; a source of anxiety and a trigger for his trauma. He just escaped that life, would he really want to go back to it? Would his friends really want him to? Luz says that she needs to keep Hunter safe in that one (amazing and sweet) scene, could that not build into the idea that the best thing for Hunter is to remain in the human realm if that is what he so chooses? He’d act like he wants to go back and help them all return to their families, and they’d certainly want him to come along, but could he go?

This is why the events with Belos should remain. Hunter has found a respite in the human realm, Belos threatens that, and panic begins to claw its way through once things have settled. If Flapjack is hurt, Hunter takes to attending him. Let’s say that Belos escaped and that they’re all still looking for the last bit that allows them to return to the isles. Hunter begins to creep out of the story’s focus, his plot giving way to that of the other characters who are still looking for the door. Have Hunter be with Vee, who might know how to treat wounds caused by having magic drained from you given what she is and her history.

Contrasts are very important for any medium. As aforesaid, the tone is saturated; muddled. This is why Hunter’s story should be sidelined in the second half of the episode; the audience needs a chance to breathe. Luz should not have been written to mope given that she is who carries the show’s tone. Have Amity or Gus be the moping one, or have all of the friends (homesick and missing their families) be the ones struggling emotionally. Luz has mounted her father’s death, managed her neurodiversity, and always responded to trauma proactively. Keep her missing Eda and King but have her be more… optimistic? Reminiscing? Have her still be making drawings of them and of glyphs, but make sure that her energy is always positive (angry at Belos and/or the Collector rather than sad and resentful of her actions).

If the moping and sadness is omnipresent or near constant, it loses weight. That is why a whimsical or cozy tone makes the emotional beats that much better; the contrast. Seeing a very sad person cry is a continuation of previous behavior; having a peppy or outgoing person cry is an escalation.

So Luz, Gus, Amity, and Willow are all running around on the search, the tone gradually getting more and more jovial as this lead turning into a genuine hope; they are going home. They can rejoin their families. Of course, Luz still has school and it might take a while to get there, so the search goes on over the course of a few days. Include some scenes of Hunter, Vee, and Flapjack together (with Flapjack recovering)-- maybe have a scene in which they all run around town exploring (that one zoo scene). Make it clear that Hunter loves this new home and that the others are making the best of it, everyone besides Hunter running off for the search once Luz gets off from school.

Then they find the portal. How, you might ask? Well, probably from spotting Belos who has also been on the hunt. Maybe have someone message Camila, Hunter, and Vee (those who had not been on the hunt) telling them to come fast (just before anyone spots Belos). Have this be after the possession attack, have it be that everyone else arrives just as Luz and co. chase down Belos. Have Hunter just manage to see Belos and panic. Camila and Vee try to get him out of his panic attack, meanwhile Willow, Gus, Luz, and Amity are on the move, attacking. Belos manages to open the portal and leaves, whomever has the most to reclaim bounds after the portal (probably Willow), and is stopped by someone else (maybe Gus), made to realize that Hunter is on the ground… He can’t slow down his breathing and Camila has gotten him to put his head between his knees. Hunter, unable to control himself, admits to them all that he can’t go back and that Flapjack might get hurt again. This is the climax, this is when the title “Thanks to Them” best applies. Thanks to his previous life, Hunter is scarred. He wants to be there for his friends, but– Willow assures him that they’ll be fine and that they all love him, they all get a moment, and Hunter and Vee stay behind in the human world. Boom, a careful use of one’s time and resources that tells a good story (and still gets the plot to where the writers want it; with Luz and co. going through the portal).

Okay, great, but I did pretense this with my discussion being about the newest episode. How does any of this affect it? Well, it makes the message more positive, acts as a conclusive story to one of the characters so that more time and focus can be spent more economically, and would allow for the main, main, main characters to play out their stories.

Let’s keep For the Future about Luz and Willow, and let’s keep both of their plotlines/themes: Willow’s trying to be brave and supportive (and is slowly drowning in her own anguish), Luz is stressing about her palismen and the decision to never return to the Boiling Isles once they’re done. Good? Good. Camila, Gus, and Amity (love me some cute romance and sapphic adorableness) are all on point, so keep them as they are. Let’s go.

Remember, we want to keep the tone fairly whimsical or else the heavier moments ring hollow. They’re good scenes to watch clips of, but not great when put into a story, at least not nearly as good as it can be and that’s my problem.

How do we keep the theme but maintain a good tone? Well, first off, either make Luz’s plan on never returning either a niggling voice in the back of her head (not a literal voice, but make it clear that she’s considering it) or make the decision one that creeps in as the Collector’s effects on the land and people become more apparent. The Collector is playing a game as the role of Luz (sort of), use that as a sort of guilt. “King wouldn’t have sacrificed himself if he hadn’t needed to protect me”, that sort of thing.

As for Willow’s story, it's mostly fine as is. Since Hunter is no longer around (I’m too maternal for this, hiss) the role of snapping Willow out of her distress goes to someone else. An important line to keep in the story is the bit where Willow is told to never call herself “half a witch” again, but Gus is used to her self-deprecating and used to her calling herself that, so he’s out. He’s still being comforted by Willow and follows after her when she goes to repress her emotions, but the line goes to someone else (Put a pin in that). Instead, have Gus say or do something that conveys the message “you’ve always been my shoulder to lean on, but you need shoulders, too”. Obviously Gus-afy it, but that’s besides the point.

Let’s have these two plotlines merge, shall we? Luz isn’t as used to Willow calling herself “half a witch” and would be much more unlikely to be okay with it. Let’s have Luz reiterate what Camila tells her about mistakes being a part of life (thus Luz accidentally tricking herself into internalizing the message) and have Gus join in (with the shoulders thing). Have Gus and Luz be cheering Willow on as she goes off, venting and crying about everything she’s lost (like she does in the show) (I think Amity is off doing the side plot still?).

Prior to this, with Luz, Luz has been mulling over what Amity tells her regarding how she managed to bond with Ghost via discovering what drives her. Luz concludes that (1) she needs a staff so as to better help make things better (as carrying around and tending to an egg is more of a liability) and (2) if she wants this egg to hatch, she needs to figure out what drives her. Luz goes on to repeatedly verbalize the different things she thinks drives her (diegetically allowing for the thought of her own guilt and the possibility of staying in the human realm to slip out). It would help with the tone, too, per how naturally silly it is for someone to run around in the apocalypse shouting affirmations at everyone. I’m just imagining Luz shouting that she wants to reunite with Eda and King, to which those littler kids to shout back the bit where tey long to feed on the blood of their enemies.

Willow having her vent (and maybe Gus and Luz joining in, talking about what all they miss and wish they had) could be how Luz comes to say the whole “I wish to be understood and accepted” thing. Maybe precede it with Willow wishing that Hunter had come with them and Gus wishing that Hunter had told them about being a grimwalker. Use their acceptance of Hunter as he is and of his decisions bleed into acceptance of Luz (being not a witch) and her decisions/actions. They might not have said that acceptance because why would they think there to be a need? They’ve always accepted Luz; their unconditional acceptance of Hunter is simply a catalyst for Luz to internalize their acceptance of her. Also, Willow and Gus love her, sure, but wasn’t Willow technically keeping them out by refusing to be vulnerable with them? Wouldn’t them all having this talk be a new level of acceptance?

Also, tone down the reveal for String Bean. the slowly cracking, massive glowing thing didn’t really do it for me, probably because Luz’s self discovery was practically breeze through in this episode? There was technically set up for it, but also it kind of just… happened? It felt less like a character beat and more like “Achievement Reached” popping up on a screen. Showing us the cracking and glowing kind of distracts from the message and emotional impact. Have the sound of cracking included, but make it unintrusive. Let there be a comfortable lull in the friend’s venting and screaming (Luz’s admission of wanting to be accepted and realizing that she is being a more subdued, more heartwarming. In the quiet, the light shifts and the reveal of String Bean comes to compliment the scene rather than supersede it. The group cheers, Luz cries, they all hug, and the tone begins to shift into something near comedic as String Bean runs about shapeshifting and being precious. The group wipes their tears, grins at each other, and returns to the fight. Let them be epic and ready for what is to come, as they are in the scene.

Side note: Is the stuff with the Collector really… necessary? Might be better to focus on King and have his scenes be about him when the Collector isn’t around. I do think we should keep the reading scene…. Hm….. Less Collector lets Eda actually play a role and could have them actually do something (like planning what to do, trying to test the potion for Eda, or try to figure out how to free the doll people. Just saying.

This got loooong. I need you to know that I paused at one point to go eat ice cream, and I want you to try and find the point at which I ventured off. Happy hunting [Runs away].