#Mosuo people

[rongzhi]

A bit about Chuanqingren, one of the unofficial ethnic groups in China.

English added by me :)

Full video transcript below the cut:

Simply because these people are so rare, on cellphones and computers, there is no option to choose them. There’s no way to input them as an option.

As a result, often times when they go out, they will be questioned over having a fake ID. They’re not Miao, nor are they Han. And they’re certainly not any of the other 56 ethnic groups. In the 90s, they were designated as an unrecognised ethnic group (official designation). Their group is classified as Other. According to Ming Dynasty historical records, in earlier times, they were called “tu ren” (dirt people), “Li minzi” (～descendants of villagers), and also “xianmin”(羡） or “xianmin”（县） (~county people). Because their traditional clothing tends to be qing* colored (*may describe blue, green, or black), they’ve since been known as “chuanqing ren” (qing-wearing people). Early on, in the 1980s, there was already the write-in option of “qing group”. The first generation of resident IDs have “qingzu” printed on them.

Later, after many years of ethnic group discernment work, it was concluded that for the time being, they did not conform to China’s independent ethnic group determination standards. Therefore, they became recognised as “Chuanqingren”. Chuanqingren are mostly found in the northwest regions of Guizhou province. They use mandrills as their totem and their clothing tends to be qing. The qing color in question is a rather deep blue, one that near black.

There ware several explanations for the origins of Chuanqing people. One saying is that they are indigenous people of Guizhou. Another, more common explanation is that in the early Ming Dynasty, Yunnan’s king of Liang rebelled and Zhu Yuanzhang (Hongwu Emperor) dispatched 300k forces to consolidate the south. Then from south of the Changjiang, many immigrated to Guizhou and settled.

Historically it’s known as “transfer from the north, filling the south”, and Chuanqingren are simply the later generations of these soldiers and officers and immigrants to the south.

Now then the question comes: why are they only Chuanqing “people”, and not qing “ethnic group” or Chuanqing “ethnic group”?

Firstly, each ethnic group in our country has its own cultural/civilisation origins. For example, the Han ethnic group are the descendants of the Yellow Emperor and Flame Emperors. Therefore, they are also called “Yan Huang Zisun”(descendants of the Flame and Yellow Emperor).

Take for example the Miao ethnic group as well: The origins of the Miao ethnic group is that Chiyou led them in the alliance of the 9 Li tribes.

But Chuanqingren can’t find their origins. Most still simply say that they are a branch of the Han ethnic group. None of their special folk styles and customs have been completely preserved, including their language, which fewer and fewer of them are able to speak. Their clothing is even less common, which has led many to think that the clothing of the Tunpu people (another Han branch) of Anshun are that of Chuanqing people. As a result, many have taken Tunpu people as Chuanqing people.

In China, there are a lot of unique communities not within the 56 [official] ethnic groups. For example, the Mosuo people, the Kemu people, the Xia’erba people, the A’ke people, the Deng people, and more. The so-called “unrecognised” ethnic groups aren’t to say that their group’s identity can’t be distinguished. Rather, it’s that they still don’t meet our country’s criteria for judging independent ethnic groups. So, it’s only in order to reflect and affirm these unique communities that they are incorporated under the "not yet recognised” ethnic group.

In the multi-ethnic household of China, no matter which ethnic group, we all have a common name, and that is ”zhonghua minzu” (the people/nation of China). Do you identify with that? (Do you agree?)

[terra-feminarum]

When women weren’t oppressed

Recently I got a private message asking when there was a time in history when women weren't oppressed. So, when was it?*

*I’m not a historian and my knowledge of this subject is far from complete. I welcome additions, corrections and conversation. This is a subject where you will find contradicting interpretations and as far as I’m concerned, attempts to silence anyone who dares to suggest patriarchy isn’t inevitable. Vetting of information isn’t easy without a background in relevant sciences. This is not a comprehensive look into female-friendly cultures as I’m not an expert at all on this subject.

Men want us to believe patriarchy is inevitable

At lot of us take patriarchy for granted. It has always existed. The past was even more horrible to women than the present day, right? The cave-men grabbed women by the hair and dragged them to their caves to rape.

We tend to consider males aspiring towards dominance as inevitable and natural, an inherent part of the behavior of Homo sapiens males.

This view of the past benefits the patriarchy. If we believe women have it better now than ever before, we settle for what we have now. If we believe the patriarchy is the natural social order of Homo sapiens, we might be satisfied with small changes that give us some relative safety and don’t pursue true liberation.

Rape is not inevitable

Rape is one of the main ways men oppress women.

We take rape as inevitable. It’s not.

Among Mosuo people, where women are the heads of the households and inheritance is matrilinear, the concept of rape doesn’t exist. I’m by no means an expert on Mosuo culture, so feel free to correct me. As far as I know, they consider rape an absurd concept – or at least did in the past, as nowadays patriarchal mainstream Chinese culture has started to affect the life of younger generations.

Imagine a life where you can’t imagine rape more than you can imagine someone forcefully stuffing food in your throat, which would be a violent and completely absurd act. I believe countless of women have lived at places and times where rape wasn't a thing.

The past is re-written by men

In the 19th century it was surprisingly commonly believed humans had a matriarchal past, but at some point the idea was ridiculed to oblivion so that it was (is?) basically impossible to study that subject and be taken seriously in the academia.

Later, continuing to present day, signs of matriarchal societies tended to be ignored or explained away. In contrast, rule of men is often assumed in historical findings from very little proof.

This assumption hasn’t been always right. A sizeable amount of prehistoric graves, assumed to be of male rulers or hunters, have now been proved to belong to women. Just lately scientists have realized the whole assumption of only men being hunters in historical hunter-gatherer societies is false. Women hunted too, as much as men.

The problem with researching the past were women weren’t oppressed is that we have centuries worth of interpretations based on the biases of male scientists who saw their own patriarchal worldview reflected everywhere they looked. Their imaginations simply couldn’t (and can’t) stretch to understand anything else.

Minoan culture

Minoan culture is one example of misinterpreted ancient culture.

This Bronze Age civilization based on Crete revolved around women. For a long time, male scientist refused to understand what their discoveries meant. Meanwhile they were completely capable of interpreting similar art and other findings elsewhere as prove of male rulership. But when the findings pointed to female leaders, it was assumed to be symbolic.

An interesting detail from Minoan art is how men are depicted to be very athletic and always wearing very little clothing – a bit like women are today.

It took a long time before men admitted women held high positions in Minoan culture, when it was very obvious from the evidence, had they been able to admit it was possible. Men tend to interpret the evidence to support their idea of a man the provider, man the ruler. And even most women accept it as the truth.

The patriarchal household isn’t inevitable

We often take it for granted that the natural human family structure is a male-led nuclear family. In the recent past and still today in many parts of the world, women move to their husband’s household, therefore ending up lowest in the social hierarchy as they are surrounded with the man’s family. When everyone else is related to the husband, it’s clear they more often than not take his side.

This is hardly the only way to arrange a relationship between a man and a woman. For example, the Mosuo people have a thing called walk-in marriage. Households are organized around a matriarch and her offspring. Both sons and daughters stay with their mother. Men and women of course have relationships, but the men simply stay for the night with their loved ones and then return in the morning to contribute to their mother’s household. Traditionally men haven’t taken care of their own children, but the children of their sisters. This is a practice that’s common in female-centered cultures.

An another alternative is matrilocality, which I understand has been or is practiced within certain Native American people. In a matrilocal system, the husband moves to his wife’s household. I believe this in itself causes a very different dynamic than a woman moving to a man’s family – the whole family now looks after the wife. Would you abuse your wife if you lived in the same longhouse as her whole extended family?

Venus figurines & Kurgan theory

There are signs that at some point in the distant past, Eurasian culture was very woman-centered. Venus figurines, depicting old women, have been found all over Eurasia.

At some point the Venus figurines disappeared.

The archaeologist Marija Gimbutas (1921 -1994), whose work has been ridiculed and largely forgotten, proposed Kurgan theory to explain the prevalence of patriarchy in Eurasia. Kurgan culture originated at the Black Sea and they are assumed to be the first speakers of proto-Indo-European language.

It is assumed Kurgan culture was more violent and patriarchal and violently spread over other cultures that were female-friendly.

Terra Feminarum

A text written in year 1075 describes a Northern European area called Terra Feminarum, Women's Land. Terra Feminarum was described to be located east from the Swedes and west from Russia. It was told the residents were Amazons of the Baltic Sea. "When Emund, the king of the Swedes had sent his son Anud to enlarge his powers, he arrived by sea to Woman Land. The Women immediately mixed poison to spring water and this way killed the king and his army."

It seems likely Terra Feminarum was located in Finland and/or Estonia, where Indo-European languages were never adopted (re: Kurgan theory). Maybe this area was one of the last female-friendly cultures in Europe. This is pure speculation at this point. Our traditional cultures have been disrupted by Christianity and patriarchy.

It might have been Kaarina Kailo – a Finnish scholar in Women’s studies - who I think said something along the lines of her taking some liberties when interpreting our past. That sometimes her interpretations might be speculative to a degree. You know why? That’s what men have been doing the whole time. They take the proof of men’s societal power as granted, even when the evidence is scarce. If the scarce lines written of Terra Feminarum described rule of men, no one would doubt it was true. But now Terra Feminarum is a myth, not history.

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This was only the tiniest scratch to the subject and I hope others have more to add. I don't have time to write a more comprehensive piece.

It's often said patriarchy originated with agriculture and the concept of ownership. Whether that's true or not, patriarchy hasn't been here forever.

[bonefall]

You said the clans had a 'battle culture', and im trying to research different cultures my clans could have but i cant find any cultures named the same way as 'X culture' or put into that sorta group. Do you know of any other cultures named this way or what its called when they're categorizes like that?

By "battle culture" I mean that the Clans have a society that reveres strength and combat prowess. I wasn't classifying them based on like, a sociological category of cultures

I would be very careful with working with existing cultures the way you phrased it-- try not to cut chunks out of existing societies just to Frankenstein them together. Try instead to think about the values you want your Clan to have, and work backward from there so you're inventing your own.

Like if you want them to be ruthless, think about what that looks like as a value. Do they only care for getting their goals accomplished, or is it about being SEEN as strong? If you want them to be vain, why is beauty important? What do they consider visually appealing, what will they do to achieve it?

When I research existing cultures I usually end up there seeking knowledge about something specific, and then try to understand why that culture has that practice and how it evolved.

For example, I was researching matriarchy and general egalitarianism in non-western cultures at one point, and you can probably see what I learned from the Aka people and the Mosuo people in the fiction I write. I also picked up a lot on the concept of an 'uncle-father' from several cultures.

[nichestartrekkie0-0]

Headcanons abt. Aenar culture :)

uh so here’s some Aenar culture headcannons?-

tattoos: ofc.

-These are more sensory reminders for the individual rather than aesthetic. Where they are placed and what pattern they are is indicative of importance and reason. (Eg. back tattoos are for important events while chest/frontal tattoos are for family/loved ones) 

-face tattoos are a thing but only for parents

traditional clothes! (I’ll post an example here soon) 

-dude they live in the tundra. Pls pls pls say they have fun traditional clothes with cool patterns (although not dye probably as they can’t see color(?)) 

matriarchical culture! 

-I think it’d be cool to explore the concept of a communal society/ matriarchy! There are some examples of this still in the world today! (Mosuo/ China and Akan/ Ghana as examples) 

-So, the Aenar would be tight-knit as a society. Kids are everyone’s problem/ and everyone is everyone’s problem. 

-ex. you forgot your train pass? Six people will offer you theirs and even more will offer to walk u home. 

[eriyu]

26. How do they view and feel about relationships, and how might this manifest in how they handle them, if it does?

between growing up with Keeper culture* and being bi and arospec, Ehryu's not really interested in committed romantic relationships, and is strongly uninterested in monogamy.

for the most part, this means that she likes to fool around a lot, and for the most part, that works out really well for her! she's most often attracted to people who are fine with no romantic commitment anyway — Thancred, V'kebbe, Hilda, Leofard, Sadu...

the biggest challenge she's had to that lifestyle is G'raha. because her feelings for him could maybe be described as alterous, while he's wholly in love with her. so that manifests in a lot of anxiously dancing around each other as she doesn’t want to lead him on and hurt him, and he doesn't want to tie her down or guilt her into anything she doesn’t want. 8')

*Meracydian Keeper culture to be specific — which is super up in the air considering how little canon there is to work off of with even Eorzean Keepers... but I've been working off the idea that the two cultures are not identical but similar, and have matriarchy and non-monogamy in common. i'm loosely basing my ideas off Mosuo culture.

[shinra-makonoid]

"Damn, it looks like both men and women were living through difficult conditions and had things that were pushed upon them for survival."

See, this argument doesn't somehow imply women were not oppressed, this argument suggests that women were oppressed out of necessity for survival (if we are arguing within the context of an imperialistic society that encourages women to pump out babies against our will).

I also need to clarify some definitions before I begin. In sociology, there are five pillars of society: government, economics, family, religion, and education. All societies have these five elements woven together to hold it up.

Patriarchy is a type of family structure where males are the heads of households and are largely in control of reproduction (female bodies). Matriarchy is the family structure where women are the heads of family and control their own bodies.

Continuing on, men are structurally oppressed, too, but not for being male, they are oppressed for being working class, men are oppressed economically, which is not any different from how women are oppressed, since working class women have always held jobs throughout human history, in addition to being saddled with the burdens of childrearing. Men can escape their oppression by ascending the economic ladder, while women can not escape misogyny by doing so.

This argument you made also ignores the existence of non-imperialistic and non-patriarchal societies, such as the Mosuo, for example, which is a matriarchal society (and there are a few of them still around). What all matriarchal societies have in common is a stable birth rate--their population doesn't grow, it stays about the same. There are very few of these societies left because they are very easily conquered.

The Mosuo society doesn't lack misogyny, either, even though they are matriarchal in terms of family structure. Which leads us to discuss the effects of cultural imperialism from outside patriarchal societies upon them, but that's a whole other topic and I am digressing.

Imperialism is not required for survival, structural misogyny is not required for survival, and even if it was, doing it for survival would not magically stop it from being structural misogyny.

Read a book about a Roman emperor, these guys started wars and conquered people because of selfish desires to create a legacy and be famous.

So you read like the first part of the post and then called it a day? Is that what you're saying? Come back when you read the whole post, and I'll answer to your reply then. Discussion works both ways (and also the things I talk about in the post really fragilise your points but you'd know that, had you read it).

[yuna-writes]

I just saw a documentary about the Mosuo people and I can’t decide whether the matriarchy is a utopian or dystopian culture. To me, feels like a utopia, but a lot of men in the comments stated that there’s a reason why matriarchy doesn’t work and why the patriarchy exists and is more global around the world. They started making fun of the Mosuo people for living in villages made of out wood and mud. They don’t have much technological influence in their civilization and then blame it by stating “this is what happens when you have women with power and influence over men. You live in mud villages.”

I have a different perspective about it. I live near one of the most powerful and influential cities in the world. It’s one of the leading cities that strives for innovation and technological advances. Yet, the crimes against women are frequent and it exist. Of all my time spent in the city, I’ve seen a woman being pushed unto the train tracks and killed by a man. I saw a woman being raped in broad daylight by a man. And I also saw a woman being chased by a man while she was walking to her apartment. Most of the crimes are from men. The city has about 36,000 cops, and yet crimes against women continue to exist. What’s the purpose where men have created fancy cars and fancy skyscrapers if they cannot protect women. We don’t really need all these technologies. It just makes society lazier and less dependent on human connection. 

The Mosuo people might live in a simpler life without fancy buildings or fancy cars, but I bet they probably have never experienced these crimes against women. They don’t even have real cops, because the idea that a woman can be raped, or experience violence is an inconceivable concept to them. It doesn’t exist in their world because they genuinely value women. I don’t think the debate is really who is the superior sex in the discussion, but their culture does give a glimpse if women did hold more power and influence, what kind of society comes out of it? A lot of men have fears if women hold more power and influence over men, it would be the end of society, but the current culture where men reign over women does nothing to protect women. 

[nopingitoutme]

About Damian found out about Martha, Thomas and Alfred .... I think he would be ok because he is arab chinese and in some groups cultures polygamy is something normalized, like in china there are the mosuos (called Na people) is normal a woman has more than one partner, both men and women have more than one partner. This can be a shock to others because the occidental people are monogamy but to Damian? That boy just chills with it

honestly the post wasn't about Damian finding out about polyamory, it was more about the difference between Alfred's position and the Wayne's. like technically Alfred is "the help" as he is the Butler and it's kind of a stereotype that wealthy men sleep with their employees especially the ones who work in the domestic sphere. I mean when you read historical fiction, theres always some lord who carries on an affair with a maid and then casts her out when she becomes pregnant.

tldr: it was a joke babes, it wasn't that deep haha

[jeanjauthor]

Writers...when you're creating cultures, don't forget that you don't have to follow "traditional family structure."

Remember that "traditional families" look VERY different from culture to culture and generation to generation. 100 years ago, it was still very common for families to live together in multi-generational households, but just three decades later the "nuclear family" was touted as "the traditional family"...despite literally being invented for marketing purposes in the post WWII economic boom.

This was done to sell more houses, furniture, appliances, etc, by encouraging newly minted adults to get jobs, move out, and occupy more buildings across the land, instead of staying with their families (as had been done for many generations beforehand) until they were both married and financially stable enough to get their own homes. Admittedly, the economic boom (and wages being matched to inflation in a livable manner) did allow more people to move out earlier, but this was a NEW thing, and not the least bit truly traditional.

There are cultures in sub-Saharan Africa where men sleep in one set of homes of a particular shape and women sleep in another set of homes of a different shape. I can't remember which culture it is, but it was said that a nearby volcano erupted, and everything & everyone was covered in ash. In the aftermath, they couldn't tell anyone apart, though they could tell their relative heights, and they could tell the square buildings from the round buildings.

So they pointed and sent the taller people (males) to the square (iirc) buildings to rest and sleep in between the long, hard work of cleaning away the ash from the area, and the shorter people (females & children) to the round houses (could be the other way around, it's been that long since I read the cultural tale).

Things worked out so well this way that even after the disaster ended and they could bathe and see what each other looked like, they just decided to keep living this way, with adult males living in one set of buildings, and females & children living in a different set of buildings. They still work together to take care of the daily life tasks of their culture & village; they just don't have a "traditional nuclear family" structure like Westerners assume everyone "has" to have.

(Whether or not this story was a true event that happened is immaterial. It is culturally cherished lore that explains their preferred living arrangements.)

Just remember that if a place is going to be civilized and not a lawless hot mess, there will still be rules everyone has to obey, even in a seemingly "free love" structure such as the culture in the above video.

(It should also be noted that in the video's culture, girl children are probably much more highly valued than in other locations across China, with its hundreds of local cultures.)

[rongzhi]

A Mosuo (摩梭族) bonfire dance performance in Yunnan near Lugu Lake. The Mosuo people are a small ethnic group that primarily lives in Yunnan and Sichuan province. They are considered part of the Naxi ethnic group (纳西族), one of the 56 official recognised ethnic groups in China.

[liquorlunch1]

Pandawas Villas Main Feature Text Benedictus Rio Images Bagus Tri Laksono

Content

Concept Designer

Tsemrinpoche

Renovasi Gompa Kechara House

Cara Menuliskan Blog Pribadi Di Instagram

Environment Artist

Thangka served as important teaching tools depicting the life of the Buddha. The scroll paintings are framed with colour stain ,an art form with unique features in Tibetan culture. Wow in one of the thangkas he even described the mythical kingdom related with the Kalachakra Tantra and its divine kings. This mandala offering is the symbolic offering of the prosperity of the whole universe. Mandala offering is a powerful method for accumulating extensive merit if we do it with proper visualization. Doing it this way we dedicate the merit from each offering for the sentient beings as it is performed.

To complete TAKE BACK GIAN'S LIFE mode, you need to clear all available routes for each characters 2 times. After that, you'll unlock Gian's special route titled and unlock the SLOW LIFE mode as well as ALBUM section in EXTRA screen. Complete board will be shown on SLOW LIFE mode. The first two modes will take place in certain part of board which differs for each routes and characters.

Concept Designer

We create a lot of positive potential or merit just by giving. The mandala offering is training us to develop the mind that takes delight and joy in making other people happy. Gaya Desain Dinding Kamar Anak of HH Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche and HH Kyabje Zong Rinpoche had lunch together in their previous lives. Well amazingly now in this life they meet again and having lunch together.

This guide is made by recording routes taken in TAKE BACK GIAN'S LIFE for our four main characters. I use the STOP spots as my basis to determine the way. You may follow them to help you record a certain route of certain character and play it in your ALBUM. Since you have no opponent, you can take it easy and hit all the spots you meet.

Tsemrinpoche

To the Mosuo people whom are a small ethnic group living in Yunnan and Sichuan provinces in China, the Goddess Gemu is their main Protector. Mosuo people are an ancient tribal community of Tibetan Buddhists, accepting this Protector for over 1,000 years. The Mosuo are believed to be descendants of the ancient Qiang, a people from the Tibetan plateau . Where here women are treated as equal, have led families for centuries. According to legend, the history of the Mountain of the Goddess Gemu, is closely linked to that of Lake Lugu. The sacred Gemu Mountain graces the edge of the pristine, deep azure blue Lugu Lake.

Each characters has their own abilities which will affect the game. Finishing all possible routes for a character means 'rescuing' him and he will be able to join you in clearing other routes. However, you cannot take the characters with you if you are doing their routes. The speciality for a character is represented by a TRAP spot in the board game. Remember that in this mode, the BLANK spots can be replaced by these TRAP spots. There is no specific guide to this mode since you can finish the game pretty easily.

Renovasi Gompa Kechara House

A beautiful country to visit with many attractions such as Temple of the Golden Abode of Buddha, Pagoda Seven Days, Buddhist Temple Syakusn-Sume and so forth. are synonymous with Tibetan culture and religion.The tradition of thangka painting which is also known as scroll painting came to Tibet from India. It was largely influenced by the art form developed in Nepal. Tucci, highly literate in Sanskrit and Tibetan as well as fluent in many Himalayan languages, was the first western scholar to travel widely through the Tibet and India. This is a place where families and individuals will find peace, nourishment and inspiration in a natural forest environment. At Kechara Forest Retreat, we are committed to give back to society through instilling the next generation with universal positive values such as kindness and compassion. Here is the latest news and pictorial updates, as it happens, of our upcoming forest retreat project. Please be advised that anyone who contravenes these guidelines may be banned from the chatroom. Banning is at the complete discretion of the administrator of this blog.

In addition, there is also a bale on the side for spa and massage treatments. It is truly a perfect sanctuary to escape the hustle and bustle of everyday life in the city. Please take a note that the second completation won't count before you clear all routes for each characters once. When you clear a route for the first time, the title will be colored and a crown will appear next to it. After all the title for all characters are colored/crowned for the first time, the second completation can be done. After you clear a route for the second time, a star will appear next to crown in title. I am not translating these, so just skip it if you don't really understand. I am not sure, but if those 'normal' CGs meaned to be a 'canon route' for each character, then you just need to follow that certain route in this game. desain dinding kamar ini buat kamarmu anti mainstream That's why I recorded all possible routes and their obtained ending. In addition we interpreted the vows of the Pandawa brothers not to go hunting for food and instead only eat the food which is freshly prepared and healthy.

Interesting the folk myths and legends are infused with Tibetan Buddhism elements.

The lemongrass and green tea scented rooms are decked in Sahadewa’s shadow puppet images as well as paintings and lamps in the shape of various musical instruments.

Tucci, highly literate in Sanskrit and Tibetan as well as fluent in many Himalayan languages, was the first western scholar to travel widely through the Tibet and India.

You should be able to understand the basic rules for this game there.

Remember that in this mode, the BLANK spots can be replaced by these TRAP spots.

Each traschcan represents each characters and contains a list of possible routes. Each routes have their own titles and they will be colored once you cleared it. After you clear this mode, you're supposed to have some CGs unlocked for each characters. There is no need to replay the mode, because the rest of the CGs can be unlocked on the next mode. To complete DREAM EATER mode, you need to clear all available routes. This highest of these is to want to reach enlightenment so that you can help others. When you have this motivation you naturally develop transform yourself. Even if you want to transform yourself to become simply a better person, you must have a reason behind this. It could be that you want others to like you more, or for your life to go smoothly, or perhaps there is a spiritual motivation behind it.

[folkfashion]

Mosuo woman, China, by Karolin Klüppel

[yourownpetard]

This progressive, feminist world – or anachronistic matriarchy, as skewed as any patriarchal society, depending on your viewpoint – exists in a lush valley in Yunnan, south-west China, in the far eastern foothills of the Himalayas.

The fact that it could be seen as either one implies there isn’t much difference. There’s also a funny moment later when the author worries that this society where women hold all the power is somehow “actually producing glorified 1950s housewives”

But overall it’s an interesting article about a very unusual society.

[yuna-writes]

The nature vs nurture theory to masculinity and femininity had me thinking more about it. Does nature really exist concretely, and if it does, what exactly is it in translating human behavior? After watching the documentary about Mosuo people, I don’t think there really is a nature. I guess that makes me, leaning toward the feminist idea that gender roles are socially constructed.

The reasoning behind this is that in the western world, men commit more crimes compared to women. Men are incarcerated in prison more than woman. Majority of men commit rape. So there’s a lot of women out there who start to believe it’s men’s nature to be aggressive and violent. This can cause some fear for some women. I don’t think that’s completely true either. Because the Moseo people live in a matriarchal society, so women hold more power and influence over men. Their culture surrounds in prioritizing women as a center to their livelihood and happiness. Therefore, family members would teach boys at a young age to prioritize a girl’s needs over their own. This social conditioning has created a next generation of men who have not raped or committed violence toward Mosuo women. In this case, it does demonstrate it’s definitely social, because if it was truly men’s nature to be violent and aggressive, then the Mosuo people would have the same social problems as the western world. They would keep incarcerating men in prisons, but such an event doesn’t occur in their culture because of early social conditioning. I bet they teach manhood differently in Mosuo culture. 

Then my next question would be who came out with the idea of masculinity and femininity? A lot of conservatives point to our nature. But I also think society constructed them to find value in a person. For example, a man is valuable for conforming to masculinity, and a woman is deemed valuable for conforming to femininity. Our pop culture and western society also reinforce it. But when you see countries that literally live in dirt and rural areas with no modern influences, those concepts aren’t applied consistently. In some cultures, women hold more power and influence over men by taking on more risk and responsibilities. And men aren’t naturally inclined to commit crimes and violence. So the stereotypes we make assumptions about toward men and women are debunked in other cultures. 

[kimludcom]

The Mosuo in China - Where women rule | DW Documentary

[rantingcrocodile]

No, actually, straight woman/straight man are not an equivalent to men of color denying being sexist. There are whole ass societies and countries dominated by men of color that are sexist as hell. Name one het female dominated society that actively oppresses gays. Oh wait, none exist anywhere. Guess your analogy is blown to shreds right there as soon as a hint of critical thinking came in to the picture.

You are incredibly thick headed. You say shit like "it is about them being straight, not about what they actually do in real life, just by being straight, women deserve the blame for the actions of men in their class! Women deserve 50% of the blame for the murders that the men did!" Don't you realize you are actually just being misogynistic?

I don't understand why you refuse to use critical thinking skills here? "Well by simply being straight, that makes women in the same class as men and responsible for the murdering that the men committed."

You don't actually understand how classes work, it seems like. I am arguing that "straight" isn't even a cohesive class of oppressors, that the oppressors are straight men in specific, and you are saying that straight is a cohesive class, just because you said so. For no reason except a label, as if you think the label matters more than material reality.

Here's a hint: reality matters more than labels. Pragmatics > semantics.

Straight people, as a class, do not face any kind of oppression for their sexuality. That has nothing to do with their sex. That is a privilege over lesbians, gay men and bisexuals immediately.

Patriarchy and sexuality-based oppression is closely intertwined, which is something that I've discussed before. It's much easier for men to oppress women if everyone is heterosexual. That said, straight women will support straight men in sexuality-based oppression because they're straight as well as because of women's oppression and female socialisation. Like everything, it's complicated.

You seem to be suggesting that just on the basis that women are women, there would automatically be no abuse or oppression for LGB people (primarily, of course, the L and the female B).

That falls apart when you're faced with the Mosuo in China, a matriarchal society where anything other than heterosexuality is denied.

The Mosuo claim to be exclusively heterosexual, but they do not seem to have a double sexual standard for women or men who choose to initiate or reject sexual intimacy with as few or many partners as they wish. Their sexual life is their private business because it does not affect the family economically or in any other way. Mosuo society has no divorce, widowhood or singlehood. Everyone has multiple parents, everyone has kin, and their reproductive decisions are unrelated to the economy or to their sexuality. - Judith Stacy

There is no doubt in my mind that there will be LGB people in the Mosuo, but with claims that they're "exclusively heterosexual," there will be oppression of the LGB despite it being a matriarchal society. Otherwise, the LGB in their society would be accepted and allowed to live their lives instead of emphatically denied.

It would be misogynistic to pretend that straight women are "just as bad as" straight men, the ones that primarily murder, attack and abuse, but claiming that straight women are somehow absolved from being homophobic and biphobic is falsely using misogyny as a shield to excuse homophobia and biphobia from straight women.

The difference between women with internalised misogyny upholding the patriarchy and straight women upholding sexuality-based oppression to support men is that the internalised misogyny harms them just as much as the rest of us, whereas they're not the ones being harmed by supporting sexuality-based oppression, they're actively harming others.

I don't think that there is any way on earth that you would attempt to claim that it's misogynistic to accept that white women are part of the white oppressive class, even though we all know that it's white men doing the worst when it comes to racial oppression. To pretend that white women don't uphold that structure would be ridiculous.

You're coming from the point of view that if there's a class where both women and men are grouped, then it's men doing the oppressing and then women are absolved because that's a male crime. No, that isn't how it works. Different structures of oppression exist and it isn't as easy as saying, "Women are fine, it's only men that are the problem, it's misogynistic to point out that women have other labels that make them part of oppressive classes."

That doesn't mean that straight women are born evil for being straight, or are otherwise horrible or deserve to be attacked or abused or anything like that. All it means is for straight women to be aware that they're part of the straight oppressive class, to be mindful and thoughtful of LGB people, to fight against sexuality-based oppression, to unlearn the homophobia and biphobia that they've internalised due to living in a heterosexist world and to be allies to the LGB - primarily the L and female B, as feminists.

When you mention pragmatics vs semantics, do you think that it matters whether the conversion therapist is a man or a woman when the LGB person is being traumatised by them? Because we can discuss the intricacies of oppression all day long and there will always be equal, individual evils that individual women and men do to the LGB that personally traumatise LGB people.

Pretending that those individual situations don't matter to claim that straight women can't be considered "real homophobes/biphobes" is callous and cruel at best.