#NUMBERS (OFF Fangame)

[daily-dose-of-dopamine]

OFF feat colour based off (hah) HOME, the fangame

I'm particularly partial to the Valerie in the left corner.

[aidenknow]

Making a survey because its been in my head lately on how people find out about Panic in Ballville

Because based from what I noticed, majority of the people found out about PiB through CSRVerse, yet there are people who found out purely through OFF in general, before they knew about CSRVerse

[twilightarcade]

workin on smthn

[directdogman]

Hi, I hope you're having a decent day! I'm sorry if this is an invasive set of questions - feel free not to answer - but do you still actively like DSaF as your own creation, or is it more of a "it was fun while it lasted but i outgrew it and it's for the best to leave it behind" kind of project? Do you ever regret making the games? If you knew they would get so popular, is there anything you would have changed about them? Is there anywhere I could read more of your writing.

It fluctuates a bit. These last couple of years, I've really just been sorta nostalgic for it. I've seen a lot of people discuss those games being a source of comfort during bad times in their lives, people talking about how much the characters mean to them and it's hard not to smile when you see that.

It's a funny thing for close friends of yours to see people WITH fanmade DSaF merch out in the wild, or to watch a random youtube video and being hit with a DSaF reference outta nowhere. It happens from time to time, even today. On a few occasions, I've even had a person reference my work to me in real life and not realize who they were talking to, believe it or not. It's really fun to play dumb and get someone to explain your work to you like you don't know what it is.

I certainly didn't think any of that would happen when I first made the series, or even during development. I think the normal assumption would be to look at DSaF as it exists now and assume its release was a peak for it, but believe it or not, the official discord only had 30 people in it shortly before 3 dropped! The archive listing of the series (reposted to a single page after the series ended) is now sitting at over 1.1 MILLION downloads.

People kinda assume the true heyday of something is when it's new, when it's fresh and novel. For instance, some people look back at when FNaF itself was new and see that time as its peak because it had a lot of internet cultural relevance as big new indie thing on the block. But, raw numbers don't lie. The series has been continually growing since its conception and that growth has similarly bled over to its fan projects. This explains why DSaF, despite not having a new series release in almost 6 years, seems to be inexplicably growing.

Just recently, I saw someone post footage of a scene from DSaF 2 on Twitter, which got over 16k likes. People praised its writing and largely celebrated the scene. The ironic thing about that particular scene is that I remembered being unsure if it was good or not, so I showed it off in one of the FNaF community hubs. The response was broadly lukewarm to negative. Now, it's held up as one of the best scenes in those games. That's kind of the point I'm trying to make, my thoughts on the series have certainly changed with everyone's else with years of hindsight.

Heh. I'm not sure if I've talked about this in a long time, but y'know, the very first scene I implemented in-game was actually the very first Phone Guy scene in DSaF 1, more or less exactly how it appears in-game today. This was before I'd even written the bulk of the game. I was pretty unfamiliar with visual novels as a whole, pretty unsure if something like this would be palatable to a fandom that was really just used to sit 'n' survive stuff that were far more gameplay than text. I mean, there wasn't any FNaF fangames really LIKE DSaF before that point. Closest was FNaFb, a jokey turn based RPG made in the same engine.

The engine I made the game in is also not exactly fit for VNs out of the box either, and I wasn't 100% sure the idea would actually work. But, the very first time I added the image of the prize corner, Phone Guy, the audio of that iconic cheesy stock track and booted up a test screen, I had a little moment where I said "Oh. I think I'm onto something interesting here." I kinda remembering instantly realizing in that single moment how much potential the idea had. Over 8 years later, I still remember that moment like it was yesterday.

I think lately, that's the sort of stuff I think of when I see people coming to me and asking about the series. Yes, it's really rough around the edges, yes, there's jokes that've aged poorly. But, it is a source of comfort for people and entertains tens of thousands of people each month. And that's gotta count for something, right?

[ponett]

ive seen you post about doctor robotnik's ring racers occasionally on twitter and would like to hear your overall thoughts on the game

I'm enjoying it a lot! It plays well, has a ridiculous number of unlockable characters and tracks, and is generally just really polished. This would be impressive even for a paid indie kart racer that cost like $20-$30, but for a freeware fangame that's somehow built off of Doom? It's nuts. So much love and care went into this. I've been having a lot of fun playing through all the Grand Prix cups and clearing out the challenge board, which I've only completed 47% of it even with over 15 hours of playtime logged.

It's absolutely one of the most hardcore kart racers I've ever played, though, and that's gonna turn some people off. While playing solo even easy mode can be difficult, especially thanks to the rival system that gives one CPU buffs over the others. Anything below 150cc is a complete joke for me in Mario Kart, but even playing on the "normal" difficulty in Ring Racers (now renamed "intense" in the 2.2 patch) kicks my ass, and if you place poorly in a Grand Prix race it gives you a game over and makes you redo the race. I can't even imagine touching the higher difficulties at my current skill level.

This is compounded by how technical the game is and how many options are at your disposal. Spin dashing, tricks, fast drops, collecting and spending rings, an item roulette that can be manually stopped, a high risk high reward chargeable melee attack when you have negative rings, the ability to harass and be harassed by other racers while positioning yourself before the start of the race, gates that can only be passed through when you have a high level of boost, lots of items with different quirks that reward skilled play. And of course, perhaps most daunting of all to new players, there's the game's unique slope physics designed to mimic how they work in the 2D Sonic games, which will often require you to either spend rings for a small boost or stop and charge up a spin dash to get up a steep hill.

All of these add a lot of complexity to the game that can be pretty daunting early on, which is why it has an infamously long story-driven tutorial to introduce all of these mechanics. I'm not sure said tutorial actually does the best job introducing how those mechanics will actually be put to use in races, but I can't blame them for thinking the game needed it. (I do have to admit I am annoyed by the game's insistence upon framing everything via Sega Saturn inputs, though. I had to open the settings screen to figure out what buttons the tutorial actually wanted me to press.)

Some of these things have already been addressed in the first couple patches, of course. You can now exit the tutorial way earlier, some unlock requirements have been relaxed, there's an option to let the game automatically use your rings for you, easy mode has been made easier, a handful of problematic courses have been tweaked, etc. And I'm sure they'll continue to refine the game based on player feedback. But it's probably always going to be a fairly hardcore game. It's hard and has a high skill ceiling by design. Nintendo's never gonna make a super technical new Mario Kart for sickos - not on purpose, at least. They need it to be a pick-up-and-play party game that sells 70 million copies. But a freeware fangame not beholden to shareholders can experiment more and try to cater to that more hardcore crowd. Say what you will about Ring Racers, but it absolutely has a specific creative vision of its own beyond "Sonic Mario Kart," and I respect that even if the game sometimes frustrates me

[blazehedgehog]

After watching SAGE's 2024 trailer, you ever get the feeling that most people want to be making indie games instead of fan games nowadays,? Every year there's been less and less fan works there.

This is the first year I've really felt it in any meaningful way.

There have been attempts for more than a decade to rename SAGE to drop the "Sonic" part. I've always pushed back against that and at this point the branding is too strong to give up, I think. People know about and come to SAGE because the brand is strong. Renaming it would be a death sentence.

Taking off my business hat, it's a bummer to see fangames in the minority here. Everybody wants to hop on that indie game gravy train and chase the success of Pizza Tower (seriously, count how many Pizza Tower clones are in the trailer this year) or Freedom Planet or Spark the Electric Jester or whatever.

And it's easy to congratulate people for striking out on their own and making original games. I was one of the many voices urging Sabrina to divorce Freedom Planet from the Sonic franchise and make it into an original game she could sell. So she ran a crowdfunding campaign (multiple, actually), was successful, and now we have two Freedom Planet games. And that's great!

But... does that mean all fangames should go away forever?

The example I lean on the hardest is comic books.

A lot of the guys who created the biggest super heroes aren't around anymore. They gave up control long ago or are straight up dead now. These books are effectively officialized fanfiction now, as are the $300,000,000 movies based on them. An ever-increasing number of people writing, drawing and directing these characters today were not alive when they were originally created.

But people still keep writing Batman stories, officially or otherwise. Because there are some stories you can only tell with Batman. Now, you could break off and make your own character that's similar to Batman, build up this history for him, and then finally tell your original story with that character. And maybe that's satisfying, to have built something of your own like that.

But for one: that's a lot of work. Batman is interesting because he has decades (almost a century now) of history behind him to play off of and work with. There are people out there who will tell you to just start writing your dream story and forget about building up to it first, but that's more about motivation and confidence than the idea that stories don't need historical context.

And two: that's already been done.

There's a good chance you know who Rob Liefeld is from his, uh, "distinctive" art style. He also created Deadpool, a katana-wielding mercenary assassin that dresses in red and black, whose real name is Wade Wilson. But before Deadpool, he created Deathstroke, a katana-wielding mercenary assassin that dresses in orange and black, whose real name is Slade Wilson.

Here is a guy who has built a career on copying his own work (and the work of others) over and over and over again.

Did it make Rob Liefeld rich and famous? Technically yes, but he kind of got rich because other people made better work using his characters, and he's famous for being kind of a hack.

So which is better?

Creative output you can do right here, right now, today, but is considered "fanfiction" or "fanart" or a "fangame", which may or may not lead to you being the person handling the official thing at some point down the road...

Or spending years of your life toiling to bring an original concept to life, and even if you struggle through all of the boredom and hardship of getting your original product out the door, it gets lost in the noise of now-million other creators trying to do the exact same thing. And then, at the end of your launch, after 2, 3, even 5 years of working and working and working, you've only made enough money to cover rent on your apartment for a month and a half.

Or, to put it another way:

Are you ditching fangame development because you have a legitimately great story you want to tell, or are you just doing it because you can't make money on a fangame?

Are you just creating another Bloodstrike?

As someone who has struggled to justify putting lots of hard work into a fangame myself, and have both made very popular fangames and some not-so-great original games, I don't know if I have a definitive answer for you. But I do wish there were more fangames at the fangaming event, and I will say, as always, if I could get paid a livable wage for making fangames, I would drop everything and do it in a heartbeat.

[acerikus]

G o d. All gekkos' outertale posting makes me wanna talk more in depth about the characterisation and plot issues in this game and why they bother me...

(readmore bc holy fuck this got long, it's probably like 5k words. It's also pretty much all salt, categorised by character)

Toriel

Why. Why is she like this. Kinda feels like the creator of the game hates her and if they don't, they have a weird way of showing it. She's treated as overdramatic and unjustified in her anger at asgore despite the fact that he DID declare war on humanity and he DID willingly let the people believe he was killing human children to harvest their souls. Even if he didn't do it for real in this game, she has every right to be angry and to not trust him, and it CERTAINLY doesn't make her undeserving to be a mother or whatever. Idk about you, but I don't think wanting kids to stay away from a man yelling about wanting to kill every child that crosses him makes you a bad parent, even if it turns out he didn't really hurt anyone y'know?

They also REALLY zoned in on 'mother' with her in a way that doesn't really make sense here. I could maybe see her feeling guilty for making a snap judgement but how would that call her motherhood into question?

Sans saying isolation messed with her makes no sense too!!!! The outerlands or whatever they called the ruins isn't sealed off in this game, other monsters seem way less intimidated by her in this game than in undertale (she has friends! She knows sans by name and goes to napstablook's shows and even has their phone number!), and we outright get told she takes the taxi to get her groceries... Meaning she headed off to the rest of the outpost and probably does that often enough.

All things considered, Toriel seems fairly well adjusted in outertale, at least by outertale standards. Kinda then makes it feel like everyone's just trying to convince her she's hysterical and that... Sucks.

Also the fact that they added an ending where you stay with her and framed it as a bad ending that doomed everyone is... Really mean? It sucked ass I'm sorry :/

Sans

... Why is he like this. This take on Sans is absolutely infuriating tbh. The only positive I really have here is that his puns are kinda good, I've seen fangames that fuck up this element massively and it was kinda fun to see his interactions in starton.

Okay, back to salt. His whole 'i became a sentry to help humans' thing is trash. He didn't care about that in ut! He didn't care about that at all! The only reason he looks out for frisk is because he made a promise to toriel, and he hates breaking promises. He didn't want to let down his friend.

...Huh. realising this is yet another case of Toriel disrespect somehow. Yet another thing they took from her, that they then just... Handed over to sans instead. :/

His lack of backstory. Look, I get wanting something silly, but they took almost everything that makes sans interesting away. Not hyperfocusing on sans like certain aus do is nice, but it feels like in a lot of situations in this game they overcompensated by a long shot.

No mysterious past/origins. We know he worked with alphys I guess but???? Honestly I have a LOT to rant about for that part so I'll leave it for twinkly's section. And yet despite all this, Sans inexplicably bleeds in tpe when not even undertale has that happen? Make up your mind!

His role in non Asriel chaotic also... Sucks ass. I'm in a pretty awesome corner of the fandom in terms of the people I follow and the takes I see as a result, so if I'm honest, when I saw all those posts about 2024 fanon sans being indifferent to his brother's murder, I kinda just figured they were vaguing about this game. You're telling me that sans of all people just shrugs off you killing everyone and complains a little bit before letting you pass?! He should know alphys already ran off. He should know the only person left to stop you is asgore, and that it's obvious he won't. Part of this could be connected to how frisk is written perhaps, and much like the twinkly situation, I'll have much more to say on that further down.

I understand the creator didn't wanna have a sans fight in their game - however, if that's the case... Maybe come up with a reason for him to NOT show up in the last corridor, then? Have him busy helping with evacuations or something, or already dead like in the first chaotic ending... This was just sloppy.

Papyrus

Honestly he wasn't... Terrible. The phonecalls were fun even if most were cheap references (though they can be fun in fangames sometimes so I'm not mad at this lol). Him being extremely talented at making spaghetti is just one symptom of one of this game's biggest flaws, however. I really don't like how nobody's really allowed to be bad at anything or have any real struggles in this game - especially when spaghetti in undertale is used to demonstrate his relationship with undyne and the similar wavelength they're on when humans aren't involved. She's the one who started teaching him to cook it, it's deeply intertwined with his desire to be a royal guard, and it's something they suck at together. Him just inexplicably being good at it is... Weird, and feels really disconnected from their friendship and her reluctance to let him in the guard yknow?

Also: his boss final phase. Having the dog NOT take his special attack away this time was really funny admittedly but... Idk? Not only is the fight really unfair for pacifist/neutral and those who aren't as good at the game (ut never gets this hard outside of geno), it feels way too on the nose in terms of insisting he's strong and has powerful attacks. Undertale didn't need to overcompensate to get across that papyrus is strong and disciplined and the way you have to infer that in undertale is way cooler. I might just be nitpicking with this point tbh but it's whatever. Letting myself be a hater for once.

And don't get me started on him getting together with Mettaton. It seemed to come out of absolutely nowhere, the idea that they were already friends in this was glossed over really quickly and no time was really put into developing the relationship save for papyrus commenting on finding him attractive every few minutes.

Gotta be honest, I've never been a fan of this ship nor understood its popularity. Papyrus very briefly mentions thinking he's attractive in undertale, but it doesn't really go anywhere and I'm not even sure mettaton knows he exists. It feels like it was just kinda added because it's a popular ship and that's it, not sure it really contributes much to either of their arcs. It was a light-hearted celebrity crush in canon and never really tried to be more.

Oh, oops. Had more to say here than I thought.

Undyne

Not much to say here... I think she was okay, there's nothing super bad with her. I do think the way gerson kinda downplays her/lacks faith in her in the chaotic route kinda sucks and I think choosing to make her non-undying chaotic bossfight harder sure was A Choice, but it's whatever. Undying was weirdly easy in a way that didn't do her much justice. Honestly they didn't do enough with her for me to have a wall of complaints and I can't tell if that's a good thing or not. Her relationship with alphys didn't really amount to much and her lack of understanding of human culture doesn't really hit as hard when she's just talking about random sci-fi things that we have no way of knowing are real or not in this game's idea of the 2600s ourselves, y'know? Her love of anime (that she mistakenly thinks is human history) is pretty absent here except to validate her relationship with alphys in a very shallow way.

The Ghost Family

Hoo boy... Was gonna make this the mettaton section, but I wanted to talk about napstablook at the same time, so I'm just gonna lump them all together.

What. What the hell was this plotline.

It feels like they tried to go for 'smalltime farmer chases passion for stardom after feeling unfulfilled at home' and as I've seen someone else say, 'shy business owner struggles to talk to their cousin outside of work'. This would've been fine tbh, but... There's a lot of things in the execution of this that kinda grossed me out if I'm honest. I don't think they were intentional, but I think it could've been thought through a lot better to avoid some unfortunate implications - or even lean into them in a respectful way.

Firstly, the ghost family intervention was pretty long, awkward, and didn't feel like it really added much - especially when most people playing would already know mettaton's backstory anyway (and his house is still accessible like in undertale!!!!! What was the point?)

Mettaton airing out his family issues on live TV feels very ooc - he keeps that stuff very close to his chest and I doubt he'd like it getting out. Him entertaining any of that out in the open seems... Weird.

Speaking of the intervention, his cousins' treatment of him was horrifying! Part of it seems intentional and it's nice that there's at least one part in the game where characters are allowed to have flaws and do bad things but... There's also elements that feel like you're meant to agree with them? Their insistence that mettaton just come home and everything they did in the past with constantly badgering him to come and help out on the farm were rightfully treated as something that hurt mettaton's feelings and that gave napstablook and the others pause. That's (mostly, we'll come back to it later) fine. He called them out for it and they reflected on it, cool. The way his ghost form was utilised makes me extremely uncomfortable, however.

Napstablook talks about hearing 'the real [mettaton]' in the recording, right to his face, 'the real mettaton' in this scenario alluding to his ghost form. Considering mettaton is a trans allegory, this feels... Kinda gross? In a similar vein, when passing mettaton's quiz barriers, one of the questions is 'what is mettaton's true identity' and you have the option to deadname him (using a name papyrus literally just made up in undertale rather than having any kind of creativity ofc) Alphys' reaction is simply to ask how you know that which... Doesn't feel great. The correct answer is 'mettaton' ofc thankfully, but everything around this particular plot point feels weird. Maybe don't do that w the most prevalent trans allegory character..?

And ofc, they keep insisting he just come home, go back to working on the farm, go back to his family... Idk, gives me vibes of someone abandoning their shitty transphobic family and then insisting they want to see 'the real [deadname] again' and for them to abandon their new life and just go back to the way things were before. Not good.

All of this would still be okay for the most part since the ghost family are painted as being unfair to mettaton... But in true pacifist, he goes back to helping out with the farm anyway and talks about how he thinks he was probably just being dramatic after all, and how 'blooky didn't do anything that bad'

... What?

It takes me right back to Toriel's treatment. Napstablook, Maddie and lurksalot gave no real thought to mettaton's feelings, made it all about them and showed pretty much no support for his transition nor his career! Fuck those guys! It's funny - mettaton is pretty consistently a pompous asshole (affectionate) in undertale but here, I think all his feelings towards his family were COMPLETELY valid. Mettaton outertale didn't do anything wrong.

Lurksalot didn't feel like they contributed much to the story either, save to be yet another character treating mettaton like shit with zero consequences nor narrative judgement. They just made every ghost family event even more drawn out.

And then ofc!!!! Mettaton and Alphys' friendship is so bland in this game! They're two people who kinda know each other and she says some nice things about him in a letter in chaotic but that's about it. Their friendship and the subsequent conflict frisk's arrival brings to it in undertale is the heart of hotland and the core, but here it's just replaced with unnecessary, hard to watch, boring family drama. The two of them have no issues to work out. She doesn't ask too much of him. There's no funny quips and barely any chemistry at all. God forbid either of them have any real flaws.

One last thing: I'm glad maddie gets her mew mew body, it's nice. Wish it was an on-screen moment or something alluded to more though. Some of that time dragging out the family drama could've been used on that instead, y'know? Especially with napstablook getting the mew mew doll... Genuinely thought they were gonna show it to her when they first got hold of it, rather than dragging Frisk into their intervention. She should've gotten to be more mad, too. Kinda a big part of her identity.

Oh, and mettaton's no-asriel chaotic fight was bullshit. It was a nice spamton reference and the first phase was cool, but the second was utter bullshit and dragged out the fight way too long. Attacking him after snapping all the wires should've killed him im sorry. It's even more of a shame bc I genuinely really liked this game's mettaton neo fight - it was fun and creative and felt possible.

Holding myself back from adding any more to this bc I could go on and on, ugh.

Alphys

Alphys. For a game that tries to make her the star of it, it's actually kinda impressive how much they managed to take away from her and just how uninteresting she is in this game.

At the surface level she's awesome, powerful, and the star of the show. In my first playthrough I was actually pretty happy to see her thriving like this! The more routes I played and the more I thought about it though they just kinda... Declawed her. Took away all her flaws. Made her 'perfect' in a way that I don't think works at all.

The amalgamates never happened. None of her experiments went wrong. She never hid away from her mistakes, or lied to anyone (save for keeping Asgore's secret, which she has no negative feelings about), nor did she over engineer any situations to make herself seem cooler. She doesn't argue with Mettaton! She's confident and assertive! She's Asgore's right hand woman and next in line for the throne! And ofc, the badass final boss! What's not to love?

...But none of this is Alphys, is it?

Her anxiety isnt just because of the determination experiments, it's pretty clear she's always been a pretty shy and nervous person. In fact, based on her entries they were one of the things she was more confident in before it all went wrong. People are hard, but she knows science, y'know?

She doesn't get to be flawed or interesting - despite her presence, she's just a generic cool scientist who's suave with the ladies, I guess..?

She isn't particularly dorky, shes overly confident, she has zero issues to work through. Her relationship with undyne is perfect (derogatory) and her infodumping about anime just before the archive feels very forced, like they remembered last minute that she does that and thought it should be included somehow.

Depicting what she'd be like in a scenario where the determination experiments never happened is a fun and interesting idea! But deltarune demonstrates how to do that well, and I think they completely missed the mark. The way she talks, her body language, the way she acts around others in general... These things are universal constants and yet in outertale, she's basically a different person entirely.

Outertale alphys isn't allowed to lie (save to cover for asgore Secretly Being A Good Person), she isn't allowed to miscalculate, she isn't allowed to mis-speak or make mistakes or do anything she'd regret. She feels like an alphys written by someone who hates her in canon and thinks all her flaws make her terrible and unlikable. I doubt this is the case since I don't think a person like that would've given her such prevalence, but that's the level of love and attention I feel was given to her writing here. It makes me sad.

And, of course... The DT experiments and her fight.

... Why did she have vials of determination if all the humans are alive? Did she take it from them? If so, was this before or after they went into stasis? We know she's not been the royal scientist for long in relation to how long humans have been falling, so did ROMAN take the determination? How much of this did she even DO?

Why did she and sans even DO anything with determination? It... Doesn't really make sense.

Speaking of determination, why did she melt at the end of her fight? I'd assume she's injected herself with determination as one of the vials in her lab is mentioned to be partially used, but I'm pretty sure it's also like this on pacifist. Was that overlooked? Are we just meant to assume it's MORE depleted? Does she just have natural determination now because She's So Cool And Badass? This isn't even really a complaint about the fight, more just how poorly that part of her lab is handled lmao

But getting into her fight... Idk, it didn't really feel like her. A lot of it was just random bullshit that was hard for the sake of being hard, that didn't really seem to be tied to her identity very well at all. People complain a lot about the Zenith Martlet fight in undertale yellow but that's done far better than this, imo. It clearly reflects martlet's character, personality and canonical bullet patterns (we see Alphys' in ut tpe!), there's a genuine feeling of progression in the fight and the act you're given to help with the fight feels more effective - you can still damage her on her turn, so taking a turn to heal act doesn't feel like a waste. The Asriel acts though... They just don't last long enough to feel that worth it? Sure they're okay, but in general, you get a lot less time to breathe. Martlet's fight lets you retry from phase 2 if you die. Sans' in undertale gives you as many turns as you need to heal while he's sparing you. Alphys' fight just feels like it's made to feel un-fun and painful throughout in a way that just isn't worth it, and doesn't really feel like it fits her personality either, y'know? The fight was just a slog and like many others, I had zero motivation to finish it legit. I don't think it helps that the undyne and mettaton fights in this route are fairly easy and simple in comparison.

Tldr: they took away everything that makes alphys endearing, fun and interesting. This isn't alphys at all.

Asgore

A huge chunk of this essay accidentally got deleted, including my first attempt at writing this section. In it, I mentioned that the Asgore apologism went way too far.

This time though, I don't think I'd even call it that. Reflecting on it, it feels less like an attempt to defend him and more like a way to hate on and spite Toriel.

Seriously. So much of his character basically just feels like someone going 'fuck you toriel. I'm giving EVERYTHING to asgore.'

It's... Really weird?

Asgore having a way out of killing humans is an interesting concept! Outertale takes place 500 years in the future compared to undertale, so the idea that they have the resources and technology to do that is kinda cool and in theory, exploring this idea sounds really fun. In practice though, it feels like it was mostly done to make Toriel out to be an asshole for no reason and to laugh at her for ever assuming he would've really killed anyone (despite... Y'know. Telling everyone that's what he was doing.)

He just. Completely moved on from Toriel without a second thought seemingly, and doesn't even look that affected by seeing her turn up again - meanwhile SHE'S got crumpled up tea recipes in the trash and all the Sad Divorced Energy - it doesn't really fit either of them! Toriel wasn't really given a reason to miss him like that, and I think even if he DID fully move on, he'd be way happier to see her than that.

All his leading statements on how she must feel in LV1 pacifist sucked ass also, especially with the way she kinda just agreed that yeah, she feels like shit for not trusting that he'd suddenly do a 180 and not hurt anyone (AGAIN. AFTER HE CONTINUED TO LET EVERYONE BELIEVE THIS) and that she must feel unworthy of being a mother. She hadn't even said half of this in front of him yet! He put words in her mouth! That in itself would be fine (social blunders are pretty normal for asgore after all) but it... Wasn't treated like that. It was handled as if this was a sweet and compassionate thing for him to say which... Yikes.

And ofc he gets to adopt frisk, and monster kid, and get to have Asriel live with him! His fatherhood is never called to question in undertale, but ofc Toriel's motherhood has to be here. Hell, despite their divorced status, if you talk to gerson in tpe it's highly implied frisk asks if asgore would start aging again if he became their dad! Idk, all of this part just reeked of Toriel hate and nothing more. Asgore is just yet another character to get sanded down and de-clawed and it sucks. So much of what makes him interesting is his mistakes and flaws and how they impact him, y'know?

Twinkly

I wanna start this by saying I don't think his writing is too bad. It's not amazing by any means but by outertale standards, he's one of the better written characters. That being said, Flowey is my favourite character of all time so I'm still gonna be critical.

So they did save the goat. Save the goat aus really aren't my thing nowadays - I feel like so often people act like he's a separate person to Flowey entirely and act like the alarm clock app dialogue doesn't exist. Asriel didn't end the story as a doomed tragedy fated to fade away! Flowey ended the story as someone who finally got closure on the loss of his best friend, and can finally learn to move on, even if it takes him a while to adjust. I don't think he needs to be a goat again for that.

That being said, I know these kinda aus are a big wish fulfilment thing for a lot of the fandom that aren't even necessarily something people want to be canon as much as they just wanna explore the idea and see him truly happy, so I won't judge that element too harshly. People are allowed to have fun, and I think save the goat can be fine if it respects him as flowey rather than separating them.

I really like that they allow Asriel to be fucked up and an asshole rather than him soft rebooting into some Sweet Perfect Little Prince once he returns to his old form, like so many other save the goat takes. Even in lv0's ending he struggles to bite back insults and mean comments aimed at Monster Kid which is... Admittedly kinda refreshing! There's definitely some flowey (or I guess in this case, twinkly) behaviour that still comes through here and I'm glad. This carried over to chaotic, too. While his characterisation wasn't perfect, this at least felt like twinkly obtaining a few form and continuing to play with the world, rather than your standard Asriel take. I also really liked that he remembers and acknowledges chaotic if done before pacifist, that was neat and adds to his character (as far as this game goes) I think.

However, onto the biggest, glaring issue I have with him.

Why. Why does he exist.

No, seriously.

In its attempt to make the world perfect, a world that blatantly only exists so the creator could make a save the goat ending, mind, there's no reason for the goat to need to be saved at all. Nor for him to exist after dying back when Chara lived with the dreemurrs.

Asgore isn't killing humans, so the souls don't need to be absorbed by anyone. Frisk can just enter the archive and lend their power to destroy the forcefield themselves, so there's no ultimatum like there is in undertale - there's no implied tradeoff of Frisk's life for the freedom of monsters without twinkly's intervention. In undertale, flowey's messing around opened up an ending that would've otherwise been impossible, something that worked for everyone.

Without him existing at all here, frisk could've broken the barrier just fine. All it really added to pacifist was a couple extra boss fights and asgore being dead for two minutes. And him being saved I guess but again, there's no real story justification for him being here EXCEPT to pat yourself on the back for saving him.

Why was he created? In undertale it's pretty clear - they wanted a vessel to hold all the souls in for now during the true lab experiments. He exists because Alphys selected the first flower to ever grow in the garden and injected it with determination that she extracted from the human souls.

... But all the humans are... Alive and well in outertale? They don't need a vessel to contain their souls. They don't need to extract any determination from anyone. Again, why do they HAVE vials of determination? And why did she inject one into a flower?

AND THAT'S THE OTHER BIG THING. It's established she and sans injected a starling flower for... Whatever reason. SO WHY THE HELL IS TWINKLY A CARTOON STAR?!

This point makes absolutely no sense at all. He looks absolutely nothing like a starling flower nor does he behave like a flower at all, which is confusing if that's what he started as. Honestly, I think it would've made more sense to just keep him as Flowey if they were gonna include him at all, and just have his appearance reflect a starling flower instead of a golden flower.

This applies to his fight too. Mechanically I think it's AWESOME, but the visuals are... Just very very boring. A huge part of why his fight in the original is so good it's the bizarre and chaotic nature of it, the horror elements, and the way so much of flowey's trauma in terms of how he was created and the things he finds scary was put on blast for all to see. The combination of mechanical and organic elements, all the plants and insects... Idk, just going 'hmm he's a star. Let's have him go through a star life cycle' is boring, there's no visual appeal.

If his creation is so vague and wishy washy, this would've been a great opportunity to flesh it out more. How was he created? What kinds of technology and machinery did alphys use to put all this together? How did she (or roman????? unclear) get the determination? What does twinkly remember?

That leads me onto a tangentially related topic - his trauma. I... Don't think this was shown very well. He talks a bit about BEING traumatised from the lab, but telling isn't the same as showing and canon flowey is terrible at hiding it, whereas I'd just as easily believe outertale Asriel made it up for sympathy points. He never really projects, he doesn't force anyone else to experience anything like he did, nothing like that. He's just a cocky asshole who likes killing, and who eventually decides to start being nice.

This game constantly seemed to be speedrunning ways to get him from being twinkly to being Asriel as quickly as possible in almost every single route which... Huh???? It's weird. Would've been nice to let him be a star more rather than just Asriel...

(final amendment bc I lost a huge chunk of this essay originally and had to rewrite it, and I'm realising I didn't manage to fit this in this time... How does a single monster soul let him get his Asriel form again? Sure he's still treated as if soulless and it doesn't make him a good person, but if he was 'so tired of being a star', why hadn't he tried doing this sooner? It makes no sense...)

For a game that exists to give him a good ending, it's so ironic how little he needs to exist at all in this world. Just goes to show what it looks like when you go too far with 'fixing' things or removing stuff you seem 'too problematic' for the sake of being wholesome or whatever.

Chara

Speaking of which... Look I'm just gonna say it. This version of Chara sucks so bad.

Chara is one of my favourite characters - they're really interesting, morally grey, and a fascinating way for undertale as a game to interface with us as players.

They're a child who likely saw the worst of humanity, then found themselves in a home with family who genuinely loved them once they fell down and met the monsters. Their intense saviour complex made them feel like the best way to help their family was to sacrifice their own life to get enough souls to break them free (and once they realised they had control, get payback against the humans while they were at it). They could be mean-spirited and a prankster. They valued efficiency HIGHLY. Their favourite number was nine because it's the limit, the absolute, a way to stop hurting and to stop others hurting.

And by doing geno, you can push this fixation on stats further. Max out all your stats. Gain power. Get stronger. Become invincible. Nobody can hurt any more if the world is gone. And ofc, they stand as the final arbiter of consequences for the player. Your punishment for killing everyone and for pushing them into believing it needs to be completed. Chara both IS is and is separate from us in a way that can't really be fully disentangled and it's really, really cool.

Anyway, enough gushing about undertale Chara. What's outertale Chara in comparison?

... Nothing.

They're nothing.

Outertale Chara narrates occasionally. They're a ghost that follows frisk around, but aren't confined to that, and have been actively wandering the underground since their death. They also still have a SOUL for some reason? This part doesn't really make sense at all.

Other than sacrificing themself and maybe wanting to take out a few humans after Asriel absorbs them, they don't do anything that could be considered bad ever. The most devious thing they ever do is snatch Asriel's diary to leave a silly comment in there when they first arrive at the outpost (sans does this with Toriel's phone in undertale tpe for comparison lmao). Despite what Asriel seems to believe, Chara is completely absent from the chaotic route - never getting corrupted, never caring about our stats, never wanting to hurt anyone, never even trying to make us face any consequences. They're just... Not here. For a character so prevalent in the murder based route of undertale this is fucking wild.

They all but vanish if you so much as say something slightly mean to someone, too! It's strange, makes no sense, and just like with sans, it feels like they overcompensated waaaaaaay too much for the people who insist they're evil. On top of that, if you do chaotic before lv0, they don't even remember chaotic happening! They'd may as well have just been a member of the ghost family who likes following Frisk around when they're especially nice. Like Asgore and alphys, they've been sanded down and de-clawed to be 'wholesome' and 'perfect', and it just results in a bland, boring character who loses anything that made them interesting, nuanced and fun.

'Chara wasn't the greatest person'... Why, though? They don't have enough substance in this game for that line to really have as much impact.

Frisk

I'm gonna be honest - I actually ADORED their frisk at first, and I think that's because I started with a neutral run and ended up drawing them a lot. They felt silly and mischievous and interesting, and this continued into chaotic. They seem pretty chill with what's going on but then take that even further by being hilariously affectionate with Asriel and still doing silly things like being up for picking up the electrodampening fluid or drinking directly out of the fountain. They felt like a funny little mini-kris (save for being okay with all the murder ofc).

Then uhhhhhhh... That's when I experienced the second chaotic ending, the one without Asriel, as well as lv0. I feel like they definitely DID try to lean on the Kris angle on purpose in terms of their feelings on being controlled and stuff but it???? Just doesn't work very well? There's no ambiguity to this version of frisk once you've seen all the routes. Just like EVERYONE ELSE, they're just a perfect little angel who would never do anything wrong and anything past lv0 is just the eeeeeevil player influence or whatever. Come on, we have deltarune for that kinda approach to control 😭 (though even then, Kris is a layered and interesting character who isn't goodness and innocence personalised, and that's why they're cool)

In undertale, we have no idea what frisk is like as a person. WOULD they spare everyone without our influence? Would they kill? Would they be a scared child lashing out in self defense? Would they run from everything, then give up and let themselves die permanently somewhere? We just don't know! We're not supposed to know! It feels like it went back to the very early fandom interpretation where frisk is Good And Sweet and Innocent while Chara is evil incarnate - except this time they're BOTH the former.

It's a contradiction too! Why in the Asriel chaotic route are they so down to follow him, and pet him, and hug him every chance they get if they don't like all the stuff we're making them so? The player has no influence over Twinkly. Every single thing he did, he chose to do, and yet even if the only time frisk has seen him was him destroying their mercy button and forcing them to kill for him, they seem to love him to pieces and go along with whatever he says happily. What.

I feel like they didn't know what to do with Frisk here at all and it shows.

Other characters

This has been ridiculously long, but to quickly go over non-major characters... They did very few things to make Roman seem interesting, the amount of stuff hes implied to have helped Asgore with just reduces even further any influence or impact alphys had, and (a smaller nitpick)... Why didn't he use times new roman as a font when we DID see him speak in the archive/on the signal stars? It's such a missed opportunity...

Burgerpants was fun... Kinda. Developing him like this feels like something that should've happened DURING the actual game rather than before it though because it made him feel like a whole other person entirely? The poisoned food was very funny though.

Why is Snowy now Stardrake when his dad hasn't changed at all and Crystal looks like any other snowdrake? That was bizarre.

I actually really liked the humans! Establishing them as actual characters was really fun, and I especially like justice. Justice, at least in my opinion, is probably the most interesting character in this whole game tbh - someone who tried to do good but ultimately caused more harm than good, while NOT downplaying it, showing the consequences directly, and showing them work to try to make things better. The way we don't grab their item like the others in the twinkly fight nor go through an area for them in the archive (and just talk to them instead) really adds to their intrigue - what are they like? Who did they know? Is there something they don't want us to see? How are they strong enough to not need us to grab their weapon at all to lend their help? I think it's get funny that the only character I'm fully praising is the clover-adjacent one. Justice outertale they could never make me hate you

(that being said... seeing the way this game is clearly just supposed to be a 'fix' for undertale does sour my thoughts on the humans a little. did they only do this bc they thought them NOT being full characters in ut was bad/a problem with it? 🥴 This applies to the additional monster kid story focus too).

Speaking of monster kid... Them being an orphan was clearly just a plot device to give asgore more kids and therefore feel like he won more than Toriel. Monster kid in undertale seems like they probably did have real and loving parents, and they have a sister too!!!! Would've been nice if they'd at least done something with their sister :(

This got... Way longer than I expected, so I'll stop here. But outertale definitely gave me an even bigger appreciation for other ut fangames. My gripes with deltatraveler section 3 feel much smaller in comparison now, if tsus misses the mark on Flowey later down the line they've at least already done most characters so much more justice, and it really puts into perspective all the heart and soul that went into kissy cutie, as well as its genuine love got the source material and characters.

Sorry outertale, you weren't for me. That being said, if anyone disagrees with any of this then that's fine! These are all just my opinions and feelings on it after going through all the routes and talking about it with friends. Media is always gonna resonate with different people in different ways and that's a good thing! If your perspective on any of this is different and if you had way more fun with it, I'm glad you did and I genuinely wish I could've felt the same. I feel like at the very least, making it has probably been a great learning experience for the devs and I really hope they carry on making games and improving their skills. Hope y'all are thriving and having fun regardless 💙

[modeus-the-unbound]

I think this is where my Shonen anime, Fight-o Fight-o time! nerd is gonna show. But the chicanery your rival in Pokemon Pathways pulled on day 1 of being in the A-Class has made him go from rolling my eyes at his angsty dialogue, to respecting him as my number 1 hater.

This whiney, shit talking, Jabroni! Was so pissed off that instead of graduating to the next class alone, I showed up to it with him. Side by side, that he throws a full blown temper tantrum. He screams at you in class until the teacher intervenes, one-shots her pokemon. (Which would normally make me roll my eyes, and it did the first time it happened.) But then he demands you fight him next. And wether or not you win or lose, that isn't enough. He STARTS A TURN BASED FIST FIGHT! IN A POKEMON GAME! He hates me so much, he NEEDS to box me....I can respect that. Esrever is now my favorite Romhack/Fangame Rival.

[kurenai-works]

Hello everyone, today is my 29th birthday.

With that in mind, I figured it would be the best time to talk about this, so I'm proud to present to all of you 東方雷秘儀 ～ Strike in the Holy Apex, my very first Touhou Project fangame!

The game's story will be centered around a mysterious thunderstorm that's raiding the entirety of Gensokyo, so it's up to a group of heroines to investigate the situation and save the day.

As some of you may know, around November of last year, GameMaker has become free to use for everyone, which prompted me to take the opportunity to create an engine that looks roughly similar to ZUN's original Touhou Project games. I showcased it in greater detail on YouTube sometime around late February and I was very pleased by the generally positive feedback it got.

Taking that into account, I continued to expand the work I've done and it has grown a lot during the past four months; menus function properly, game settings can be modified, controller support has been added, several gameplay tweaks have been implemented, and so on. There's still a number of things that need to be ironed out by the time I'm writing this post, but considering the progress I have done on it so far, I have faith that a trial version for the game will be ready for release soon. This has to be the biggest project I've worked on... by a country mile. Speaking of the trial version's release date, that will be disclosed at the very end of this post.

GameMaker being free to use has given me a joy I genuinely can't describe, and I bet my inner child would’ve been happy too by hearing those news. After all, I've had experiences with GameMaker for well over 15 years, basically almost half of my entire life!

So, what should you expect by the time the trial version is released? First things first, it'll obviously consist of only three stages.

Secondly, you'll be able to play this adventure as the usual duo; Reimu and Marisa. More playable characters will be available in the full version.

Thirdly, the game's main mechanic. It's called the Brave Gauge, and it has functionality almost similar to the Season Gauge found in Touhou 16: Hidden Star in Four Seasons. It's not the most original idea I've had, but for the record, and coming back to my familiarity with GameMaker ever since my teenage years, this system was taken from a very old draft which dates all the way back to 2014, while making some adjustments to it. Here's a little bit of proof:

I'm going a bit off tangent here, but seeing these filenames kinda makes me feel embarrassed. The game has "Ascii" on the name because all of the graphics in there were made using ASCII characters, which was done during a time when my artistic talents were non-existent, so they looked quite messy and overall made the game have a goofy aura to it, haha.

And lastly, considering that I'd like this game to be played by a wider demographic, it's gonna be available in three different languages: English, Spanish (my native language, hooray!) and Japanese. These can be selected anytime via the options menu.

I don't know any people who are fluent in Japanese, and the few friends that I have don't seem to know much about the language either, so that translation is gonna be handled 100% by myself using tools like DeepL. I know that translating all the stuff in one go can lead to heavily mistranslated results, so I'll be making sure to convert my game's text as meticulously as I can. If there's anyone out there who understands Japanese fluently and is willing to translate the text for me, please hit me up because that'd be really appreciated. In case that happens, I won't be able to reward the translation financially, but I will be adding your name to my game's end credits.

So yeah, I don't have much else to say. The game's trial version will be available on Itch.io this August 30th.

The game has a long way ahead from being completed, so anticipating a release date for the full version is not feasible, at the moment. Regardless, I'll make sure to update on that once I have made abundant progress on it.

Both versions of the game will be released as pay-what-you-want. In simpler words, they'll be available free of charge with the optional choice of depositing a sum, in case you're feeling generous. After all, not to brag, but it goes without saying that I'm handling every detail in the game; not just the programming, but also the art, music and writing. While I have used some code libraries to facilitate the inclusion of certain aspects in my game, most of the heavy lifting is carried out by me, so it'd be really appreciated to have some compensation for the work I have been doing for almost half a year. It's not by any means mandatory, so it's fine if you can't for whatever reason, hahaha.

Anyway, I hope you look forward to this game of mine as much as I do! See you then!!

[n0maku]

Some details from the Undertale Legends of Localization book

271 pages! If the localization of Undertale into Japanese interests you, I suggest getting the book off of Fangamer yourself. Anyhow, here's some details I noted from my reading:

-"mt.ebott is "toby" backwards, inspired by mt. itoi from MOTHER" (translation note from Toby to 8-4). This detail is also mentioned at another point in the book.

-An image of the debug tool that 8-4 developed to quickly jump to points in the game has "No Mercy" as a tab...(?) selector...(?). I don't quite recall what other names have been used for the route 'officially', so found it interesting enough to note. It is also referred to as such a few other times in the book.

-The name they used for the fallen human (shown in their debug tool menu image) is "Rose".

-Toby instructed the translators to keep ICE-E somewhere, even if to keep it funny the wordsearch got changed to something else.

-It has been known by people already, but the book notes how each item has three names! One standard name, one abbreviated for battle menus, and one abbreviated for battle menus during serious scenes. I think I recall some post calling it "Serious Mode"...? For example, the Butterscotch Pie goes in the battle menu from "ButtsPie", to "Pie" in the Toriel fight from "Serious Mode" . (Though, it says they cut the abbreviating for the Japanese translation as there were less space needed for the item names. I guess that means the japanese version didn't get any 'silly' item name variations...?)

Now, this gets pretty long, so I'll just put a readmore here...

-The translation of the Wrong Number Song comes up in the book, and it actually references that the main fan theory for who the "G" is is Gaster! BUT it reveals nothing about it basically. Toby remained mysterious about the "G..." person referenced in the call, with his note on it being "Character's name beginning with "G"... Actually, it might be suitably bizarre if you leave this line completely intact in English." Disappointing, but admittedly expected that this book wouldn't give any more details about it.

Apparently initially the localization team also thought it was meant to be "Gaster" and put a "Ga--" in an early draft, but it got overruled by Toby's decision to keep the call in English.

-A section emphasizes how while Monster Kid's dialogue uses ore, a more masculine pronoun, ". . .Toby designed the character to have no clear gender," and "Monster Kid's gender is never specified in the original script." I personally found it nice how the section asserted Monster Kid's gender neutrality and emphasized the pronoun choices being more purely used to reflect character, and chosen after consultation with Toby. -Onionsan's unclear gender led to the translators choosing for them to use watashi (which the section describes as a "polite, somewhat gender-neutral" pronoun), or simply "Onionsan" (which works to emphasize their childish vibes). -There is nothing about Frisk/their name is never mentioned. A section on Parsnik only notes that Hard Mode is accessed when you "give yourself a certain human's name." -Apparently Toby says Alphys is pronounced "al-feez"

-It is noted that Toby did not mean to reference the "it's over 9000!" meme with the dialogue "OH YES! MTT-BRAND OVENS CAN REACH TEMPERATURES UP TO NINE-THOUSAND DEGREES!" -For the (slightly inaccurate) Kitchen quote CHECK text (two lovers standing over the cauldron of hell...), Toby asked the translators to just translate it directly instead of grabbing the exact lines from the Japanese version of Kitchen. The section emphasizes how Toby was so unattached to it being a reference that he specifically requested the translators to not bother with it.

-There is a section on Entry Number 17 (the wingdings one, not the unused alphys one)! However, it is not referred to as such, merely vaguely talking about it- how most people never see some of the lines in Undertale, and the process of translating the wingdings. (They wrote out the Japanese translation with English spelling, keeping the same wingdings font.)

The image examples they use are images of the wingdings "THE DARKNESS KEEPS GROWING" and it translating to wingdings "YAMIHA NOUDO WA MASHITE YUKU". Funnily enough, the section notes ". . .it almost feels like these messages contain dark secrets. . ." and ". . .the localization team wanted to preserve the 'dark, mysterious, and unreadable' vibe in Japanese too." "Dark" twice... ha ha, these writers, I swear...

Sadly, no mention of Gaster or any other insight on the entry. An example sentence they use for Wingdings is "I EAT BUGS EVERY DAY," so uhhh maybe that's a clue that he's a bug eater? (I'm joking...) -"Asriel Dreemurr" being an anagram of "Serial Murderer" is confirmed to be intentional by Toby. -Toby notes how the "But it refused" line has two meanings: One, that it can mean "refused to die," secondly, that it can mean "'re-fused', referring to how the heart fragments fuse back together again." It's another thing that's been noted by some people, but a neat detail regardless!

Alright, that's what I've got...! There's a lot of other stuff, like how dialogue that was referencing other games was handled, (which is a LOT), but these notes are what I found the most personally interesting and relevant to Undertale.

[cagedcats]

Still thinking of the hypothetical Redux Iterum game in my head

These are what I wanted-

Turnbased RPG as a homage to the Warriors fangame retelling the first, second and third arc.

Custom sprites tho, with custom fighting animation and sprites all the shebang

Capability to join any of the four Clans (or not)

Thunderclan is basic Clan and you’ll always be mentored by the Leader- being mentored by the Leaders in the other Clans opens door to new skills/specialty of that Clan.

- RiverClan - Swimming / WindClan -Tunneling / ShadowClan - …?? Warden? City Runner? Couldn’t figure ShadowClan out

But there would be option in the other three to be mentored by the Deputy maybe, which would just be basic Warriors stuff rather then added things to learn.

Also possibility to be a Seer or Matriarch apprentice 👏 which Seer wouldn’t be a select to be that but rather prove your worth.

Outsider to Clan type story. Or not, could be option to not join the Clan (probably the last story to be added tbh).

Having a “Greypaw,” “Ravenpaw” and a “Sandpaw” / “Dustpaw” in each Clan. At least one of each, though there could be a double. such as two Ravens and a Grey and Sand/Dust, or two Greys and a Raven and so forth, you get the idea.

Each Clan would have its own little issue that would connect it to the higher plot, and choices the player makes would determine the fates of some cats around them.

- this goes for suffixes even for the other apprentices. Doing certain quests with them can determine them receiving certain suffixes or even possibly ranks / which small aside these cats do have “true” names which would just be the name they have if you’re not a part of that Clan.

- So for example ThunderClan player could get Pansypaw to the Pansywhisker name, but if you’re in WindClan/RiverClan/ShadowClan, she always is Pansystorm. Pansystorm is her “true” name.

Which quests! You can do tasks for you Clanmates which can open up information, help them out and in general boost your skills, or reputation in the Clan. Or do the aforementioned.

And also special missions which you can take from listening to stories. Where you get to play as someone else in a mythos (One of the Three, Petalfall, etc.). As added bonus, but maybe you could receive rewards from completing these quests (major stat boost or special items?). You can always “pause” these missions tho and return to main game.

And you can do quests for other Clan cats. It won’t change much in their Clan, but like I said, information.

-

Somehow lock appearance to prefix options, which would be the most nitty gritty for me. Also for animals/weather/trees try to work on requirements to earn the -step/-flight/-fin/-fall suffix.

👏 Suffix requirement markers for Skills / Personality 👏 and the appearance portion of it just going off appearance. To earn the Skill / Personality suffix mark though your character’s skill would have to pass a threshold probably.

- So instead of having the highest skill in Fighting, your Fighting Skill would have to pass something like… idk 50? Or something? Not sure about numbers. If it doesn’t pass 50 then Suffix would refer to Personality and then to Appearance.

- inspired by recent ask on the Iterum blog, the threshold for certain skills are probably higher in certain Clans

- which going further appearances itself would have stats!!! 🫠 for the -face suffix! Imagine that. And it could be different depending on the Clan, oh god.

- -step/-flight/-fall/-fin would be be gained from a culmination of Skill / Personality / Appearance stats. And those skills would have to be somehow locked to that specific prefix.

And also locking the Clan specific suffixes to those specific Clans (-Dawn/-dusk and -leaf/-light-/-feather/-stone).

Locking -flower suffix, and locking Seers from receiving it along with -claw, -whisker, and -fang.

Maybe highlighting prefixes that are preferred in each Clan. Such as you pick RiverClan, and the preferred names being Green, so-so names Yellow and names they wouldn’t choose in a million years being Red. Still possible to pick, but you’d stick out with that name.

You can get injured in the game so name changes are possible. Which you can pick whether you’d want this, and if you do then you get the option of name-change-prefix for the suffix correlated with whatever damage your cat has received.

-

Just random things I’d like as well

“Notebook” for notes. This can be used for Clans and locations in that territory. Dens, ranks, or even other Cats. The drawing for the dens and ranks would change depending on the Clan you’re in. (Drawings would be a sketchy style).

Mini-games? Such as swimming mechanics, tunneling, whatever is going on in ShadowClan. But also for the Seers to keep it interesting and for Matriarchs and Wardens (maybe).

- tho a lot of Seers and Matriarchs could be memorizing tbh? Point and Click for Seers? Family tree crafting for Matriarch (baby mama minigame????)? Something! Something to add some spice rather than sit and have character moments.

As for being blessed and assessments… I think they’d go off of current stat distribution among Skills and Personality.

- and for being blessed, I’d imagine whoever the Player is blessed by, it would lead to a chance of 4 unique possible dreams for each. So 12 dream possibilities (maybe dreams depend on relationships). And with a chance of just having no dream at all.

There would probably only be 1 Arc. Probably ends when the cat becomes a Warrior/Seer/Matriarch. But Y’know anything would be possible.

Determining whether you can have kits, or sire them in character creator. Or neither (spay/neuter). Along with that pronoun options (maybe with custom pronouns too? Not sure how Sims did it).

Small idea I had was for coat patterns to be “purchased” similar to Untold Tales. Like pointed pattern, or breed specific coat textures

Beyond that, if there is another Arc maybe possibility of having an apprentice. Which would go off of reputation, and maybe relationship with the apprentice before so. Tho to mentor maybe the player could speak to the Leader or “purchase” the possibility. Just so players aren’t blindsided by sudden apprentice.

-

Beyond that I can’t think of anything else I’d want for my hypothetical game. Without going into plot detail, since this is just mechanics. Leaders are the only ones I really remember. Loststar (my Shadow girl), Lilystar (Thunder) Lionstar (River), and Molestar (Wind) would be the leaders, and the main mentors typically.

Tho I do recall the former ThunderClan would’ve been the demo cat Hollypaw (named Hollystar), and that the deputy was Leopard- something. As ThunderClan would’ve been the first I’d focus on cause it’s the main guy Clan Y’know.

If I have any more thoughts I’ll either add to this or reblog it. But for now take this horrible horrible ramble.

[gunsandaprons]

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Rules and Regulations

While this is an ask blog at times, the ask box will not always be open. When the ask box is closed, do not find creative ways to ask questions (reblogs, replies, etc.). Any questions sent while the box is closed will be ignored.

In addition to the above, when the ask box is open, please follow the theme of questions being asked if an event is in progress. Events will occasionally come about where you will be encouraged to ask questions related to what’s going on in the story. Please follow the theming whenever an event is active.

This blog is PG-13. While swears are okay (in moderation), there will be no sexual or graphic content on this blog. Our protagonists are children, so please refrain from sending them inappropriate questions.

Clover uses They/Them pronouns exclusively while Robin uses She/They pronouns. Please only use these pronouns on the respective characters. Your question may be ignored otherwise. (This is a very easy thing to keep in mind before typing an ask.)

Any asks involving bigotry will be entirely ignored and deleted. This includes Racism, Queerphobia, Ableism, Xenophobia, etc. This isn’t a place for that kind of behavior and you will simply be blocked.

Keep the questions related to the official characters of the blog, the Undertale franchise, and the fangame, Undertale Yellow. It makes answering your questions easier when they’re connected to the story. There will be no focus on AUs outside of the AU of the blog itself to avoid complication of plot and confusion.

This isn’t a roleplay blog. Please do not send messages in hopes of a roleplay conversation outside of your asked questions. This blog is focused entirely on Clover, Robin, and any characters that will make an official appearance.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q. The ask box is closed and I can’t ask a question. Why?

A. If the ask box is closed, we are not accepting more questions at that time. Please be patient and wait for when the ask box is reopened.

Q. My question wasn’t answered with the last batch of questions. Why?

A. There’s a number of reasons why this might have happened. Perhaps your question was one already answered in the past? Or maybe there was no good way to reply to your message? Either way, the moderator is doing their best to answer as many questions as they can muster. If your question isn’t answered, it isn’t the end of the world. Try asking something new and different next time!

Q. I don’t personally agree with this headcanon/theory you’re working with.

A. That’s sad to hear! Well, we’re all entitled to our opinions. Please don’t go out of your way to tell the mod this? It won’t change the blog in any way and will be ignored.

Q. Can I repost your art to other social media sites?

A. Absolutely not! This blog is the only place you will be seeing answers and comics related to the blog! If you see someone on another social media platform reposting art from this blog, it most likely isn’t the blog moderator, RheaKira.

Q. Am I allowed to use any art on this blog as my PFP/blog header?

A. Sure! How flattering! But please be sure to credit the blog or the artist if you plan to do this.

Q. Am I allowed to make fanworks related to this blog?

A. Absolutely! We’re more than happy to get fanworks of any kind! Please be sure to @ the blog so that the moderator can see and reblog it for everyone to see! Please keep the PG-13 rule in mind and do not send anything sexual or graphic. Thank you!

Q. Am I allowed to voice over or make comic dubs of works on the blog?

A. You absolutely may! However, please credit the blog properly if you do so and I politely ask that you do not monetize the video or profit off of it in any way. I’m making this art for free and it would make me uncomfortable to see profit being made off of my work. If this is an issue for you, please simply do not use my works for your videos. If you do use our work for dubs, please let us know!! Thank you!

Q. Can I mention characters from the UTDR AU multiverse on the blog, like Ink Sans or Core Frisk?

A. Nope! We’re not interested in doing anything related to other AUs on this blog, let alone an entire multiverse. Please don’t send messages related to this. They will be ignored.

Q. Why are Clover and Robin so adorable?

A. IDK man. Let’s enjoy them and their friendship together!

[aidenknow]

Decided it is time to share a doodle of Ghost Clone in my style since its been a while + extra doodle of Luke Warmwater (one of my ballclone OCs) & 131

Also it was requested by @chellys-catbox for the GC doodle

[eternal-fractal]

why is every person talking about pokemon romhacks and fangames that i find always like "POKEMON ROMHACKS ARE LEAGUES ABOVE THE MAINLINE GAMES NOW, THE MAINLINE GAMES HAVE GONE TO SHIT WITH TERRIBLE STORY, BUGS, AND ARE TOO EASY. HERE IN MY LIST, I WILL TELL YOU THE BEST POKEMON ROMHACKS OFF ALL TIME THAT WILL ENSURE YOU NEVER PLAY AN OFFICIAL POKEMON GAME AGAIN." "and for my number 3 pick, pokemon snakewood-"

[lilyblackdrawside]

The spellcard contract was established to allow youkai to show off their power and skills without causing too much damage. As such, the weapon to be used in battles under this contract is danmaku, which is designed to be non-lethal. It can damage and hurt you, evident by the post-battle portraits, but it won't kill.

Unless you're a fairy. or Mokou.

Yeah Mokou fucking dies.

Each time you clear one of her spellcards, she explodes as if you had won the battle and performs Resurection (sic) to resume the fight. Let's not worry about the details as to whether or not she actually immediately loses the battle after you clear her first spellcard and kill her and instead think about the themes of this.

For one, it's really funny. She's the frailest non-generic-fairy being that's ever been observed fighting a danmaku battle. Patchouli is sturdier than Mokou.

But it makes sense too. Mokou is immortal, so why care about defense. Just attack, attack, attack and if you die you just revive. She does still feel the pain, but at the point where the only regular danmaku battle is fought against her - Imperishable Night - she is at her absolute lowest. She (thinks she) doesn't have anyone or anything except her deep-seated hatred for Kaguya. She just lives in her run-down shack in the bamboo forest and wastes away, mentally. She can't waste away physically after all.

Like, yeah, if I was a resurrection-based immortal with a narrow-sighted view of the world that only lets me see endless attempts at vengenace, I'd also just fucking die.

Many will probably think of Mokou's self-damaging attacks that she uses in later games, especially the fighters, but in IN she doesn't really do that. She doesn't have any moves where she really goes that aggressive, she just shoots danmaku like anyone else. There aren't any aggressive charges like "Regretful Life - Immortality's Reckless Sacrifice" so it's not like she's "doing anything" with her immortality. She just doesn't give enough of a shit to stay alive. But then later on, she does start giving a shit. She realizes that she does have someone who cares about her (Keine) and gets out more, finds reasons to live other than killing Kaguya so instead of just fucking dying, she makes use of her endless life force to express herself. (by killing herself to kill you)

Thus, I find that only one fangame I've played that features Mokou really "got her right".

Most games have her as a kind of tanky bruiser with high hp, low to middling defenses, probably some kind of hp regeneration. TPDP comes to mind for high hp, low def which works to evoke the image of "you have to input a lot of damage to kill her but she's easy to attack", Labyrinth of Touhou does pretty much the same thing where in 1 she's just really bad struggles to do meaningful damage because of mixed-stat attacks and can't tank well either and in 2 she has a revive, health regen and conditional damage reduction and in Genius of Sappheiros she's one of your dedicated tanks, wearing heavy armor, having high health, being bad at dodging and having the ability to randomly revive at the start of your turn. At 1 hp. She can also do some really nice damage in the lategame.

And then there's Gensou Shoujo Taisen where she has the same body as Reimu but with slightly higher health. She's the same size (M), has the same base mobility (120) and armor (800), leaving her okay at dodging and extremely frail. She will die in two hits. She also has baseline 20% hp regen per turn and a variable number of revives that revive her at low hp (relevant) and give her +5 to all stats (stats =/= body). She also has Level 7/9 Berserk and Instinct Dodge, meaning she gets increasing damage reduction and crit (Berserk) and accuracy and dodge (Instinct Dodge) as her health drops.

This isn't practical, because she'll die in two hits. Initially, anyway. Having her revives already makes her excellent on offense against lategame bosses, because you can just throw her at them and let her die without worry. It's very convenient. Not useful on defense, cause if she dies she can't counter-attack, but it works out.

However, you can invest in her in several ways. Her mobility is good enough to make her meaningfully dodgy. It is the same as Reimu's after all. Her Evasion stat is lower than Reimu's, but that's pretty whatever. Stats don't matter that much in these games, Evasion and Accuracy in particular because you'll just cheat them anyway. So with that you'll wind up with a frail unit who's good at dodging and has fail-saves in the form of revives. Pretty cool, pretty cool. Not getting much out of those innate Berserk and Instinct Dodge skills though.

Other than that, you can also just build her as a tank. Yes, her defensive bases are ass, there's no other way to put it, but she has alright hp (Reimu's hp is ass and Mokou's is just a bit higher) and hp regen. You can outfit her with equipment that raises hp and defense and give her other defensive skills that mostly come in in Ei, but PP skills get reset between You and Ei anyway so that's fine. Now you have a decently tanky Mokou that gets really tanky at low health. If you max out Berserk, the effect is pretty insane. There are bosses that become borderline unkillable if you put them at too low hp% instead of nuking them with a big attack from a higher value. This is pretty good.

However, what I consider to be the best build for her (and for a number of units in general, basically anyone who has hp regen can do it) is a mixed grazing-build. For this you just pick up the Streaming skill that reduces the damage you take from grazed attacks. Grazing is a system unique to GST where you can have any unit enter Focus Mode to gain +10% accuracy, change movement range from their unfocused range to their focused range (these stats are unique to each unit) and ignore the basic effects of danmaku (danmaku is laid out by most enemies and will make you take more damage and reduce your evasion. These penalties are negated by being in focus mode). In focus mode, you also can't dodge anymore. If you successfully dodge an attack in focus mode, you will take damage based on your dodge chance. So if you have 50% dodge chance you either take the hit normally, or you graze it for half damage. This sounds pretty bad, but when your options are being in focus mode to maybe graze for half damage or not being in focus mode, thus having 0% dodge chance and taking +150% damage due to danmaku, you'll gladly go focus mode.

The Streaming skill at level 2 cuts graze damage in half, so in the 50% dodge chance example, the final damage will be 25%.

This pairs really well with the Instinct Dodge and Berserk skills, because Instinct Dodge will ramp up your evasion and Berserk reduces the damage you take as your hp declines, both of which reduces damage from grazed attacks. In focus mode, your hp goes down much more steadily than outside of it, because you're not gambling low-odds dodges while in three layers of danmaku, you're letting yourself take chip damage and gradually grow stronger. Of course, unless Instinct Dodge winds up getting you to 100% dodge chance, you keep taking chip damage until you die but that's where that health regen comes in. It'll keep you in an equilibrium, where enemies keep lowering your health until due to Berserk and Instinct Dodge, they can't deal more than 10% or 20% of your health per turn, whatever amount of regen you may have. (It'll be 10% usually, 20% is uncommon and you have to work for 30%) It's a really nice build, because it also makes all of her attacks pretty much guaranteed to hit between the +10% from Focus Mode and the Instinct Dodge bonus.

The only caveat is that Mokou's base Focus Movement Range is 2. That's the lowest baseline you'll see. It's not unsalvageable, but it does sting a bit. You can just pair her off with someone who has accel or a fast mover who can frontline her into the fray, so it's usually fine. There's a generic PP skill that gives +1 Focus Move and later on there's even gear for it, but Mokou only has two slots and usually wants other stuff to supplement her bad body.

Play Gensou Shoujo Taisen. It's like, the best fangame.

Also play Touhou. The regular games. They're good. Do it. Play on easy mode, there's no shame in it. Danmaku is a hostile genre that wants to break you down.

[ponett]

I am working on a sonic fangame with my brother, and I really want to make it and put it out in the world, but I am insecure about whether anyone even wants it, because it contains a lot of niche ideas and is based around its own continuity. I'm not sure how you could help with this, but you are my number one gamedev inspiration, so I ask you what I should do. it's nowhere near completion, and as such there's no footage to show off, so the only way I can promote is by saying "I have a fangame"

I mean, if that's the game you really want to make then you should just make it for the sake of making it. It doesn't have to blow up and become super popular for it to have been a worthwhile use of your time. No one else is going to make the exact game you have in your head for you.

(also there are plenty of Sonic fangames out there that disregard canon, just submit a demo to SAGE whenever you're ready and see what happens)