#Ochako doesn't know Toga's past

[problemswithbooks]

God can hori be any more heavy handed with the "DONT YOU WANT TO BE NORMAL NORMAL NORMAL" bestie, shes drinking other kids blood, thats not just "not normal". This weird retcon thing is annoying, Idk why hed bother putting her backstory in when he didnt give much of a shit about it 😭

The thing is, I actually don't think trying to say Toga's blood drinking is normal is necessarily bad or something that can't be done well. Quirks are a major part of the world and the story overall--it's not that far fetched that blood drinking might be a normal thing a person with a Quirk would want to do. If people can accept people that can make explosions which could also be dangerous to kids and people (and very much was for Izuku) then it's not a huge stretch to accept that blood drinking for Toga is normal and she should be accepted as such.

The issue is that Hori didn't really make that the issue. I don't think he really sees it himself given how he wrote Mineta, but Toga's main problem and why shes not accepted is a matter of consent not because she's seen as a creep.

This is why her backstory doesn't work very well, besides the fact it's way to late and very short. Yes, her parents freak out about her Quirk and obsession with blood. The problem is that they don't freak out for zero reason and are the only ones who reject her.

No child should be drinking the blood of birds. Whether she killed it or not, birds carry many diseases and parasites harmful to people. Her father shouldn't have hit her (because, I guess he did even though it's poorly conveyed), but the shock given what she's doing is understandable. Especially if they think she killed it (which is weird, and suggests she might have done something they found disturbing before this or were bad parents regardless of her Quirk).

Then they yell at her because she's biting her finger bloody. That's self harm and something you would want to send a child to therapy for. Sure, the counselor didn't help, but it's not like they can give Toga what she wants.

That's hammered home when they yell at her again when she drinks another kids blood. Hori messes up and doesn't show us what happens so we don't know if she hurt this other kid, or if they were scared of her or if they were fine with it.

Just giving us a look at her parents reaction doesn't give us any idea how she was seen by her peers. Because of that it's hard to make the case that she was only rejected for her Quirk alone, rather then her actions. In fact the only time we see other students they say she was popular and well liked until she attacked a boy in the class.

Given how young she looks when her parents yell at her for sucking another kids blood, and the fact she fled school after she attacked her crush, it appears these were separate events. If that was the case people in her school might have already heard about her sucking a kids blood earlier, and clearly not cared. In the very least we have to assume they knew her Quirk involved blood because Hori doesn't make any suggestion that it was hidden.

And that's why the theme of acceptance and Toga being normal because blood drinking is a part of her falls flat. No one ever said shit about her Quirk ever, except for her parents in sparse flashbacks. Ochako never thinks her blood drinking is gross nor do any of the the other Heroes or class 1A students. Hell, Tenya doesn't even bad mouth Stain for drinking blood even though he hated the guy so much he wanted him dead. This doesn't make it seem like the world rejected her for her Quirk.

No, the entire problem is that Toga doesn't understand consent or boundaries. We never see her ever ask anyone, even as a kid if she can drink their blood (that would have been a better scene then her drinking birds blood imho) and get rejected and told off and bullied/ostracized for her desire. Which if that did happen would explain why she never asks again and feels no one will accept her.

And, you could blame her parents and the therapist for this, but I'd just wager Hori doesn't really grasp that consent is the issue here. Mainly because Ochako never addresses it in anyway, even though she does bring up Toga's crimes. She offers her blood to Toga for life, but does not say that difference between Toga drinking her blood as opposed to anyone else's is because she is giving permission.

In the end Toga doesn't learn anything and just gets what she wanted given to her. Maybe Hori will address this next chapter but it really should have been brought up sooner. That or he should have had Toga actually not be accepted what-so-ever and shunned by all her peers for her Quirk even before she attacked her crush.

And this is part of the reason I really don't like the queer reading of the chapter is because by doing so it is suggesting that queer people are dangerous. If we read Toga's blood drinking as the same as kissing--which she seems to say (though her expression while drinking blood suggests something more...problematic) then she has been going around kissing people against their will to fulfill her own needs. If we read this as queer, is the story not saying that repressed gay people will sexually harass people because they can't understand consent when they inevitably snap?

I'm not saying this was or is Hori's intent. I think it's pretty clear he just didn't see how big an issue of consent there was with Toga and her Quirk. He wanted it to be all about how she wasn't accepted as normal, but didn't put in the work of showcasing that well. He has a lousy track record with female characters getting way less attention and with his rush to finish on top of that, Ochako and Toga got screwed with a half baked climax. Unfortunately that's also left it with less then great implications if you think about it for a coupe of minutes.

[haine-kleine]

anyway. the ending was like That because it was Izuku's hero academia. it was his story told from his point of view and it concluded all the plot points he was concerned with, like his relationship with Bakugou, Allmight, the public's opinion on the heroes, what the new generation of heroes is going to be like, how Shouto is perceived by the public, Izuku's general relationship with his former classmates and Aizawa.

he never really cared about Shigaraki outside of their brief confrontation. he didn't really know Shigaraki as a person, and nor was he interested in getting to know him, even when he got the chance to peek into his past, Nana and Allmight had more reason to be interested in who Shigaraki the person was. to Izuku, Shigaraki started as a terrifying villain and ended as a crying boy he was unable to save. this is why, as he joins the rest of his classmates and becomes a pro hero, he imagines the ghost of Shigaraki looking over him, haunting him, reminding him of his failure but also inspiring him to try harder and 'keep reaching out'.

The villains were the ones concerned with their stories. Spinner wrote that book by himself, as Izuku's notes are being written at the point the book has already been published. Izuku never mentions any contents of that book nor Spinner or Mister Compress. Because they do not belong in his story, not really.

They belong with each other, in the League of Villains, as they have proven time and time again how important they are to each other and how far they are willing to go to protect their own. Shigaraki's thoughts before Izuku had killed him were all about the League. Kurogiri's last act was trying to save Shigaraki from AFO and the heroes. What kept Spinner's spirit from crumbling after losing everyone he had cared about was his burning desire to tell their story to others, to let their stories be heard. Touya finds no solace despite getting everything he had ever wanted from his family and being reunited with them - because his place was in the League of villains, the place where he was accepted just as he was, unconditionally.

the conflict of heroes versus the villains led to nothing but devastation and destruction for the villains. even those who were heard out and validated by the other party ended up becoming victims, or martyrs.

after that experience, after having a whole crowd of pro heroes, the people who made it their lives career to save others witness his destruction by the man who stole his body from him and by the boy who swore to save him, why would Shigaraki be interested in keeping in contact with these people, had he survived? why would Kurogiri go out of his way to let Shirakumo's friends know he had survived their students attempt to take his life and the life of the boy he wanted to save, all because they couldn't accept his affection for that boy outweighing their long gone friendship? why would Toga, when the reporters and the heroes saw her body after starting to transfuse all of her blood to Ochako and not even bothered to pick it up, to save her life or even to bury her?

here is how it went: Kurogiri did end up successfully saving Shigaraki, the fact going unnoticed by the heroes because both of their bodies were crumbling. he had also taken Toga, which is why her body wasn't picked up together with Ochako (and why Ochako doesn't have any memories of Toga's dead body, only of her final words to her). and then Kurogiri teleported them far away, where they healed and started planning how to get the remaining three LOV members back, while they are still alive.

they broke Spinner and Compress out of the prisons. In memory of Twice, Hawks had covered it up, as long as they don't resurface as villains.

Shigaraki and Toga had considered letting Touya stay together with his family, up until the news of Endeavor's disgraced villain son being on his deathbed got out. On the very next day, Shigaraki broke the tank Touya was residing in to pieces. Enji and his sidekicks had covered his eldest going missing by holding a funeral ceremony for him (the second one, this time knowing full well it's a fake funeral). Shouto was enraged with his father's decision and Enji used Shouto's just starting pro hero career as an excuse, don't you want to have a clean start, without the weight of mine and Touya's crimes weighting you down? It's not like Shouto has a choice in the matter, just as when he was a kid. The family wonders about the missing one's fate. Sometimes, Shouto gets messages from unknown numbers. He doesn't share them with anyone, except for Natsuo, who is still devastated about not using his one last chance to reconcile with the brother he had been so sorely missing for 8 years.

The ghosts of Toga, Shigaraki and Dabi live on, haunting the heroes who failed to save them. Himiko, Tenko and Touya also live on. They are very different from these ghosts.

[a-sentimental-man]

you know... i really don't think uraraka admitting she has a crush on izuku means that her entire purpose was on her having a crush on a boy... hori likes his characters better than that. ochako was trying to approach himiko on her wavelength.

I'm too lazy to bring manga panels up and i have to go to work, but bare with me for a moment.

himikos been constantly saying "we have a crush on the same boy, let's talk about it together" ever since she was introduced as a character. ochako's the one who's been resisting, partly because togas a villain, and partly because she felt that that she had to clamp these feelings down.

so her finally admitting to having a crush? it was for TOGA. to tell her that she understands, and she isn't going to reject togas feelings like so many other people have done in the past. it wasn't "a boy being a root for ochako's character" - it was her knowing that her feelings for toga was stronger than her feelings for a boy and she doesn't mind admitting a secret she's kept quiet for so long so that she could get closer to a person she desperately wanted to reach out to.

anyways. togachako canon.

[codenamesazanka]

About Deku telling Tenko's story - two things:

1) People might actually already know about Tenko's story, given this panel:

+ All Might finding out Tenko's name, which implies Deku told All Might all the stuff that went down, and I can't think of any reason why Deku wouldn't have told Tsukauchi either, hence the "ongoing investigation".

It's just that people do not care that Shigaraki was a manipulated puppet. Literally the interviewees in the documentary say they don't care, they refuse to care. Shigaraki Tomura is still just a piece of shit monster to them. Hell, I bet they will just blame Shigaraki for not being strong enough to resist the grooming. They blame every other victim for not enduring enough and lashing out, so why not Shigaraki as well?

And like, what purpose would it serve beyond trying to rehabilitate Shigaraki/Tenko's image a bit? That is something that should be done, but the guy's dead. He can be pitied, and the blame shifted into AFO, the remembrance a little softer, but I doubt they'll be naming a park after Tenko like they do for the littlest cancer patients.

(tbh Deku's telling of the story will also just have Shigaraki/Tenko go down in history as the saddest victim ever, an eternal crying five year old who really never had a chance, whose life was probably over before it started, and definitely over when he was given Decay; and frankly idk if that's any better for his legacy. At least Spinner's version will probably remember Shigaraki as someone who cared about his friends and liked games like any other 20-year-old nerd.)

There's no 'lesson', either, because AFO was a unique evil, so him getting defeated is the end of his puppeteering. There is just a very low chance of another Villain popping up who has the time and resources to kidnap a child to raise them into endless rage and hatred in order for them to become a vessel and also destroy society? There are doubtless kids being raised into criminals and Villains by criminals and Villains and gangs or whatnot, but not to the extent Shigaraki went through.

At best what telling Tenko's story can get us is a focus on identifying and rehabilitating groomed and 'faultless' Villains, but we can see from Twice's past being known to Hawks, Dabi's story being known to the public, and Toga's story semi-known to Ochako enough that she has decided to tackle quirk counseling - all stories of Villains being formed out of societal distortions instead of innate evil - that this isn't done for them either. There's just no interest in rehabilitating Villains, and frankly, Deku doesn't seem to have an interest in it either.

2) Telling the story is probably a bad look publicly for Deku, and Heroes, and All Might.

Deku reveals Shigaraki as an entirely coerced victim, a life-long manipulated puppet who never had agency and never made a choice of his own... and he failed to save the guy. In fact, he killed the guy. Essentially Shigaraki was a hostage held by AFO, and Deku took out the the perp along with the hostage. That at least should guarantee some criticism. (art imitating irl fandom wank)

Other questions: how could Heroes not have known this earlier? Why didn't Heroes put a plan in place to save Shigaraki? Couldn't they have dealt with him non-lethally? All Might was involved in his tragedy - why didn't he do something earlier? Why did he never check up on the Shimuras?

Deku can't really tell Tenko's story without drawing blame on himself and the Heroes, and that might be too risky for a post-war society.

[girlatrocity]

i see ur a momo and toga friends/knew e/o in middle school fan too….. do u have any Thoughts on postcanon redeemed toga (w/ ochako. Ofc. yuri wins.) meeting momo again….

I actually think about Ochako introducing Toga to her friends (specifically the 1-A girls) a LOT lol

so firstly! I don't think Toga and Momo were bffs or anything in middle school, kinda just like friends-in-law? Plus, their families were acquainted. The middle school toga friendship circle looks like this in my head:

tho they definitely giggled together at lunch enough times that when Toga attacked their classmate and became a villain, Momo was shook abt the whole thing.

so Momo NEVER talks about knowing Toga to her friends (except to Jirou ofc yuri wins.) and Ochako literally has no idea until she sees an old photo of them together and starts to make her evil plan.

Ochako invites them both over for something (maybe a mall trip idk) and when Momo shows up, Ochako is ready w her former terrorist girlfriend :D

AND IT'S SO AWKWARD LIKE IT'S THE WORSE THING EVER bc Momo has been experiencing so many weird and complicated feelings about the whole thing and Toga still doesn't really wanna confront things about her past.

Toga is cordial for Ochako's sake and Momo is cordial for her sanity's sake, but it's still super tense and Ochako decides to abandon the two for half an hour so they can sort it all out.

the confrontation goes from weird air, no words spoken → steadily more passive aggressive remarks → full out arguing and fighting in the middle of the mall

I'd imagine Toga says something about how Momo would never know what it's like being someone like her (perfect, pretty, honorable, likable, normal girl) and that makes Momo pause for second and she begins to ACTUALLY think about how Toga acted when they went to school together + how her parents treated her.

Then they start to open up and have a good long convo about everything (Toga's family, Momo's insecurity, being "normal", etc) and maybe Momo even tells Toga what's going on w the rest of her old friends.

Ochako comes back to retrieve her ankle monitor girlfriend and Jirou comes to drive Momo back home and idk maybe they hug it out or smth.

just know at the end of things, they're nearly friends and definitely have a better understanding of each other than they did in middle school ♥️

[villainsandvictimsalliance]

I love that every time Ochako and Deku talked about saving Toga and Tomura, they explicitly said that they couldn't forgive them for hurting so many people, including their friends.

But they still wanted to save them.

They had a whole conversation about how it was super weird. Shouldn't they want them dead? It was paralleled with Shouto saying he wanted to know what Touya's favorite food was, with Iida and Bakugo contributing to it.

The kids feeling a bit guilty because they want to help people in need, no matter what. It all being right before the reveal that Aoyama was the UA traitor, when class 1A decides that they wanted a future with Aoyama in it even after all he did. The kids slowly realizing that the answer to live a good life is to defuse those situations and find a way for everyone to live and heal on their own time.

When Deku explains that maybe the key is in trying to understand why the villains are doing what they are doing. When Ochako says that she never considered how Toga saw the world or how it could affect the way she attacked; not everyone saw the world like them, which means that not everyone could reach the same conclusions.

When Shouto asked Touya why he never came home and Touya was able to finally tell his story. When the Todorokis reunited to talk together about their family, their past and future. When Rei showed she knew that Touya only wanted to be seen and considered by his dad. When Ochako understood that it was all Toga wanted to, to be considered a person, not a monster. When they all realized that it's not that the League refused to see as much as they couldn't. Their hurt and their trauma kept them anchored in the past, blind to their surroundings, lashing out like a wounded animal to anyone.

Deku explained to the vestiges that he tried to connect with other villains and couldn't because they did not want to. Not everyone wants to be saved, they say. There's a possibility that Tomura doesn't want to be saved. Would you kill him if that's true? And Deku doesn't want to because his powers are not to kill, but to save. He says that he will figure it out if that's the case, but he reaaaally wants to save that crying kid.

From then to now.

To the vestiges sacrificing themselves to open a path to Deku to reach Tenko. To Hawks thinking about what Ochako said about wanting to see everybody smile. To the Todorokis joining forces to stop Touya because it's their responsibility, not only Shouto's.

From a world ruled by assumptions and apathy and misconceptions and violence, to a world that is based on understanding, communication and responsibility.

I love what it all means.

[doodlegirl1998]

your response literally made me realize that they need Izuku more than he needs them despite what Hori wants us to think.

Because think about it, nobody ever acknowledges Izuku unless he does something that benefits THEM! And fuck whatever he needs or wants!

They even make fun of his interests as if he’s the inpy one who does that sort of thing! So again, how am I supposed to believe they actually give a shit about him and his wellbeing?

Hi @theloganator101 👋

All of this. 👆

Now I like the idea of Izuku having friends, I like the idea of Izuku having ride or dies (such as Shoto.)

However, canon has left all of Izuku's friendships with the 'DekuSquad' and Class 1A as a whole to rot or actively does it a disservice in the name of 'comedy', for Bakugou's benefit or because Hori gives no care to them.

Class 1A, we know, never stand up for Izuku against Bakugou, so Hori's golden boy doesn't look bad. However, by consequence, it also looks like they don't care for Izuku apart from some key members like Tokoyami who never stand for Bakugou's shit. (Bless you, Tokoyami!)

However, with Izuku's main friendships in the 'Deku Squad', we have:

Izuku & Ochako - a friendship/budding relationship that is left to rot and actively done a disservice for 'comedy' and Bakugou's benefit.

Izuku & Iida - a friendship that is left to rot and actively done a disservice for 'comedy' and Bakugou's benefit.

Izuku & Shoto - a friendship that is actively done a disservice for 'comedy' and for Bakugou's benefit.

Izuku & Tsuyu - left to rot and done a disservice for Bakugou's benefit.

Izuku & Aoyama - left to rot.

How are we meant to buy that Ochako cares for and 'loves' Izuku when she calls him 'plain' and is so set on hiding her feelings?

When she doesn't stand up for him when he's being abused by Bakugou and when she looks freaked out whenever Izuku is shown to enjoy his hobbies?

Or when she 'who loves Izuku' barely spends any time with him?

From what we see in canon, we can't.

How are we meant to buy Iida cares for Izuku when he barely appears with him now?

How are we meant to buy Iida is Izuku's "best friend" yet when he is so quick to call Izuku "Mr House Arrest" and take Aizawa's side without hearing out Izuku?

Or when Iida is so quick to hit him* after Izuku getting out of the hospital?

Logically, we can't. *Yes, Iida apologised for doing this. However, this moment does rub me wrong, and even if this punch is nullified by the apology, the other criticisms still stand.

How are we meant to buy Shoto cares for Izuku when he thinks nothing of Bakugou verbally and physically berating Izuku now*?

*Yes, Shoto is an abuse victim, and some become desensitised to this behaviour as a result - however Shoto did not begin the series acting this way, so what conclusion can we draw?

How are we meant to buy that Shoto is a close friend of Izuku when he is chasing after Bakugou's friendship (Bakugou, who is openly hateful of Izuku?)

It looks like, through Hori trying to glorify Bakugou, that Shoto doesn't care as much for Izuku as we would like to think.

Tsuyu and Aoyama are barely even there anymore, let alone bond with Izuku.

Tsuyu used to stand up to Bakugou and his bullshit openly - now? Not a peep. She's only here to be an accessory to Toga vs. Ochako and Ochako as a whole. Izuku, who?

Aoyama has strong parallels with Izuku due to both starting the series quirkless and being given a quirk by AFO and AM, respectively. Yet this friendship is barely given any focus by Hori. Hori doesn't want Izuku to think about his own past during Aoyama's backstory, so he fails to give Izuku any introspection and fails to deepen their connection and Izuku's character as a result.

Class 1A as a whole are also done a disservice by Hori having them all gang up on Izuku with Bakugou leading the charge.

To conclude - Hori hates Izuku and it is clear looking at just how dirty he does all his connections in 1A and major friendships.

[aashi-heartfilia]

BnHA 392: Ochako gets stabbed. No she's not dying.

Yeah so what if she got stabbed? With stabby pants Toga around this was bound to happen.

Doesn't mean that she is gonna die!

And even if it looks serious, I don't think it will have a serious consequence or anything. She might as well get a cool scar like All Might at most.

And I don't even wanna talk about that grab scene on the next page. I think it's a mistake that will be corrected during the volume publish, remember how inking on Ochako and Toga wasn't on point either in the last chapter.

With Hori's declining health, I think it's a very likely case.

Anyways, we'll have to wait now for two weeks to see if our babygirl is all right or not.

Contrary to popular belief, I think she's fine. Great infact, because now she'll fight more seriously.

Remember how in her battle vs Bakugo during SF, when even her friends underestimated her and thought she needed help?

But she proved to everyone that she's more than capable of handling herself when the time calls for it?

And this is a battle she cannot afford to lose, we have lives on the line. Not just her fellow heroes but Toga herself is also in danger and Uravity is a hero who wants to see everyone smile.

I think this is bound to come sooner or later. Like what kind of hero Uravity will be?

Like Ingenium is a hero who guides lost children to their home, Uravity will find a way to save Toga and the entire battlefield that is dealing with Sad Man's Death Parade.

Now, it's more important than ever because we've seen that Pixie Bob is down for the count. She was the main person containing the clones but now that she is down and Toga has created multiple doppelgangers of our beloved heroes, everyone is at a risk of getting stabbed.

Since the last two chapters were about Toga, I think the next chapter will be about Ochako.

Personally I would love an Ochako Uraraka: Origins chapter and then a Rising Chapter following it!

This will be one of the biggest moments of the series where a character gets an Origin and a rising chapter simultaneously.

A chapter that shows us Ochako's life before she joined UA.

Just like Toga, we only had a glimpse of Ochako's past. Bonus material suggests that she used to sleep to save money and bear the heat in summers because her parents could not afford an AC. But that's not all.

Horikoshi has been hinting at this dynamic for a long time. So I feel like there has been something about Ochako that has been hidden from us, as readers.

It was always hidden in plain sight, just like how those postcards were a foreshadowing for Ochako getting stabbed in the stomach.

The author said that there is a scene between TOGACHAKO that he is itching to draw.

Personally I don't know what scene it is. It could be Toga stabbing Ochako in the recent chapter, or it could be something entirely different. We won't know for sure until this arc concludes.

As for this arc, I think this fated battle will last for at least 3-4 more chapters.

Everything is in complete chaos and it will take time to wrap this up. Even if a miracle were to happen, I don't see a direct solution to TOGA's Sad Man Parade unlike Dabi where Shouto just reaching on time was everything.

Not only Ochako will need to convince Toga to stop her Parade but also deal with the existing ones that are running rampant around the battlefield.

Also, can I just say how much I loved Ochako just casually flying over the entire parade?

Also her jet boosters are finally coming in handy!

Also I just loved how much control she has over gravity now. She literally pulled both Toga and Tsu out like it was nothing! Plus the Twice clones surrounding her!!

Toga using the blood from the battlefield totally caught me off-guard. She really is playing 5D chess now.

Guess, it goes to show you how smart she actually was up until now.

Ochako and Toga are two faces of a coin. Of course, they're both smart.

Plus I think Toga is still not using her full power, as the Curious vestige suggested. She's still hiding her true self.

And maybe that's the answer to everything. Ochako will try to appeal to whatever goodness is left of her.

Ochako knows that Quirks are nature and just like Toga, she's been hiding her true feelings all along. And I think the feeling that she's been hiding is envy.

She was jealous of how 'normal' everyone else is and how they get to express their love and she doesn't. It is not a form that society will accept.

But in the world of MHA, how do you even decide what is normal and what isn't?

Her parents literally denied her humanity.

I also loved what Tsuyu said here about Heroes following the rules. If killing was the only way, Ochako and the heroes were more than capable of doing that.

But it's not about killing or arresting her anymore but rather about confronting a little girl who has been rejected her entire life, even by her own parents.

It's about a young girl with a big dream who wants to see everyone smile and yes that includes Toga too.

It was never a story about killing people because violence leads to even more violence, it's about understanding and sympathy, care and compassion and this is how true heroes are born.

Cheers! Sunshine!

~Thanks for reading

[angy-grrr]

idk about translations or anything like that -but the attempt for Ochako explaining her pain after Himiko died feels so... analytical in English. It feels anticlimactic in comparison to the fan translation by Pikahlua, and it kind of makes a reference to her feelings for Izuku? Which doesnt have to be a bad thing, but it is weird to me to change it like that -idk if the official English translator was thinking about "preparing" the audience or something??

Idk if im just looking into things but when I read it it felt bad to me, so I checked the official Spanish translation to see if it also made a reference to past actions:

Fan translation: That's why... I'll put away even this wound that hurts all the time.

Official English translation: That's why... just like before, I'm dealing with this lasting pain... by shutting it all away.

Official Spanish translation: That's why... I've been repressing it... this wound and its pain...

Im guessing my problem comes from the over explanation that shifts the focus into, what I think is, the wrong thing: the official EN makes you focus on how she shut down her feelings for Izuku and how she is doing it again, while the fan translation and the SP are more about her repressing/pushing away specifically her pain for Himiko represented by her wound.

EDIT: I know she does have more moments where she cries when she's alone or with her parents only, I know, but lets be real, that paired with the shutting it away + Izuku appearing in the end makes you think more of that scene instead.

We understand then that the stab makes her unable to forget her, and thinks about a crying and smiling Toga during her sacrifice, while the official EN kind of forgets about it? It feels less powerful to me by skipping a mention of the wound, and by adding "just like before" it makes it look like her putting away her feelings for Izuku left a "lasting pain" at the same level of Himiko Toga dying, which. That's just wild to me?? As if her not confessing was causing her a lasting pain???? IN THE SAME LEVEL AS GRIEVING??

Im the only one reading it like that?

Under the cut im going to ramble a little more about the meaning of the stab wound:

When Himiko stabbed her, she fundamentally rejected Ochako.She claimed they were built different, and while ppl like her are able to live blessed lives happily, their rules dont allow ppl like Toga to even be close to that, and just get pitied instead. She did it angered and with flashing images of all the people who rejected her and pitied her existence going thru her mind; in that moment she cant see her caring for her genuinely, or even loving her as she "already" rejected her when she didnt understand her phrase "what do you wanna do to me?",too.

Even tho it was an action to get her away and to push her feelings down -her own love for Ochako, and instead focus on a villain like goal even tho all she has wanted is be herself happily- Ochako doesn't see it that way.

So, Himiko stabs her screaming to not be pitied, and Ochako keeps pushing it, going against what she thinks in order to be honest with her own feelings. Ochako's fear and sadness from before is revealed then to be related to not understanding Himiko's genuinely happiness. She finds inspiration in her and, I argue probably also Izuku, to then declare what she loves with her whole face: her lovely smile, and how much she wishes to be able to be like that too. Free like her.

What is that stab for her, when she sees the sacrificing Himiko? Because in that part she explains about loving someone to the point of giving herself her blood instead of taking it, I believe this is the face of pure reciprocal love. I wondered while reading the leaks why not choosing the "you think im cute?" face instead where she has the biggest smile, so my idea is that it represents something different. That moment was about Himiko being loved by Ochako, and the other about Ochako being loved by Himiko, using each other's languages -Ochako offers her blood not because Himiko needs it to survive literally, but because that's the way she can get closer to the other person; when she tells her she is the cutest in the world Himiko finds for the first time the love she always looked for without even asking for it.

Himiko gives her blood because she can't live in a world without her, but also because for Ochako sacrificing yourself for someone else its what she admires and loves. The best part about this is how they both arent doing it because they "have" to, their hearts already wish this and to do something for the other. It's genuine, it's heartwarming, and so bittersweet.

When Ochako feels that pain, she doesn't see an angry Himiko, or a sad Himiko, she sees Himiko doing an act of love for her. And that just hurts even more.

[mikeellee]

Hi 👋

You said horikoshi made ochako act worse towards izuku in the later arcs and while I do actually agree with you that hori did sacrifice the friendship between izuku and ochako for the sake of togaocha can you please go into more detail as in to why you think that and how?

Ok, hi @bibibbon

So lets start with this: Hori hates his mc. This is not exaggerating of a fan. This is a fact now.

1) Ochako when meeting Izu and "befriend" him calls him deku. Now. I count her some slack as she thought it was dekiru. But she heard BK not only trying to kill Izu...but calling him deku...and she thought nothing of it. NO, EVEN WHEN I WAS IZUOCHA FAN I DIDNT LIKE IZU AGREED WITH THE NAME DEKU BC OF HER. HE KNOWS HER FOR A DAY AND EVEN IF SHE IS FULL OF GOOD INTENTIONS...IZU SHOULD HATE THE NAME.

2) She calls him plain. Now sure it may not be out of malice (not how many actions of class A1 towards Izu fall into this category) but is an odd comment to make. No, she doesnt need to go "oh my god he is so hot🤤" but call him plain seems....mean. yes Izu was called much worse but here the thing, it doesnt make her comment better.

3) In Sports Festival. "You wont fight quirkless right?" No. I dont believe in quirkless discrimantion but its a bad line here. Does Ochako thinks Izu's quirk is storng and he should use more? Even if his bones break? She never show much consideration on this aspect of his quirk (to be fair, no one in UA does expect blame him) but is a bad comment to make and shows to me how Izu doesn't trust or cant trust fully on her. If he did...he could have shared more of his past. Note how he never talks about his past to anyone.

4) Ochako then gets quirkless fightinf style. This is on Hori to shit on Izu as "girlboss" moment for Ochako...is unwarranted. She never express desire to want to fight quirkless ...Izu would benefit more if he was there...why not make them intern together? Could Ochako have asked if Izu could join? Not blaming her for this...maybe Gunhead would have said no. But is a waste of bonding moment for them.

5) Ochako decides to remain silent on her feelings bc.....it may prevent her from being a hero. Again, this is only with Izu. If a girl was in love with Shoto...it wouldn't be a problem even if the girl is poor.

6) On the fall out of bk vs Izu. She does treat as he is in the wrong (same for Iida. Again....this asshole tried to kill a man) and to me, it cements how Izu may not fully trust her with his pain or just convinced 100% his pain is non important

7) dark Izu era. She doesnt look happy to see him and doesnt respect his wishes at all. She is being guided by bk who is having the time of his life. No one looks happy to see Izu. And they force him to return.

8) She says to Toga, who she had no contact until now, she will be her blood bank. Izu? She doesnt even know the name of his mother.

Izuocha to me is dead even as friendship. Ochako did nothing and what she did for Izu was not great.

[haine-kleine]

fix-it but make it horrible: in that brief period of time before the second war All For One sees the loyalty the League has for Shigaraki and decides to break it from the inside, so that by the time he steals Shigaraki's body none of them are too affected and remain by the new host's side.

He starts with Spinner, the one closest to Shigaraki, and the most loyal one to him. He breaks his mind with the overload of quirks, puts him down until the start of the war. By the time the war begins he has a dumb but obedient puppet, unable to think for himself, unable to even notice that Shigaraki is gone.

The second one is Dabi. He doesn't hide it anymore how his main objective is to die in a confrontation with his father. All For One likes his subordinates loyal and obedient to him, and as Touya's quirk has always been of great interest to him, he refuses to let him go on his own. He wants Dabi by his side for this war, protecting him with the power of his flames, so using one of his many quirks he alters Dabi's memory, erasing every part of Touya Todoroki. Dabi is Shigaraki's right hand man and he will stay by his side and destroy anyone who sets out to harm Shigaraki Tomura, that's all he needs to know.

Toga is left alone and she is terrified. She knows All For One is going to kill her. She was so busy thinking about the heroes killing her, like they killed Jin, she forgot that being a villain means always watching her own back. Moreover, she was so busy hurting and lashing out at the world for taking Jin away from her, she had failed to do anything to protect Shigaraki, Spinner and Dabi. With her dear friends turned mindless puppets for literal Satan, once again taken from her, like Twice, Mister Compress, Magne and Kurogiri were taken, she is breathless with terror, anguish, guilt.

She runs to the ashes of her childhood home that Dabi had burned for her, doesn't allow herself to cry or escape into the memories of the past, and pushes forward. She runs to the heroes, finds Ochako, Izuku, Tsuyu, Allmight, Eraserhead, any hero she had once been able to allow herself to trust, and begs them for their help. She will give herself up, she will go to prison, she will give them intel for the war against All For One (Shigaraki), she will put Twice's quirk to use one last time if it means honoring his memory and protecting the people she loves. She will do anything, just please, help her save her friends from that monster?

[dira333]

Congrats on finishing Passing Peonies! As you could probably tell from my tags, I'm completely enthralled with it!

I was wondering if you'd considered what Shigaraki would be doing post war? This isn't necessarily a request for the follower milestone (though I do plan on sending in a request or two after I've gathered my thoughts). I was just curious if you'd had any plans regarding him in that universe.

Thank you for asking! I do know what Shigaraki is doing in the Passing Peonies world but I didn't want to convolute the story with too many people to focus on. So glad that I get to talk about it!

Deku managed to defeat All for One and Shigaraki by doing what he does best - get through to Shigaraki and convince him of the power of Friendship. Without Deku's example, Shouto might not have been so successful with Touya.

Not everyone from the League of Villains wanted to change, because not all of them wanted to be heard and understood in the first place.

The Public demanded harsh punishments but Allmight, coupled with Deku "the world-saver" and his friends, demanded a change in the system. Touya, Toga, Shigaraki, Spinner, Kurogiri... They were taken in for physical and psychological therapy. But, and that was important... They were not allowed to meet each other at first. They could ask questions about each other if they wanted to, but people were afraid that it would pull them down and hinder their healing if they were confronted with people from their past.

That did not work as well as they thought they would. Kurogiri almost broke out of the hospital he was in because no one would tell him where Shigaraki was held and if he was still alive.

Toga's mental health improved significantly once she had regular contact with Touya and Spinner was moved to the same hospital as Kurogiri and Shigaraki in an attempt to benefit Shigaraki's recovery.

Touya is the first to actually enter the rehabilitation program of all the villains, because he has the biggest support system: his whole family, plus Hawks.

Toga is second, because she has Touya to rely on, as well as Ochako who never misses their weekly trips to get coffee or try on cute clothes.

Kurogiri could have been the first but he will not leave Shigaraki's side. Him, Spinner and Shigaraki are living in a remodeled three bedroom apartment in a hospital wing.

Spinner is retaking highschool classes and is thinking about working for a mechanic as soon as he's allowed to start rehabilitation - his therapist is still a bit concerned with his obsession with Stain.

Kurogiri has weekly cooking classes with Present Mic and Aizawa which are doing nothing for his memory but they have gotten close.

And finally, we have Shigaraki.

After two years in therapy - at the end of Passing Peonies - he's doing a lot better. He wears gloves all of the time even though he's wearing quirk cancelling anklets and there are days where Kurogiri has to hang blankets over all the mirrors because Shigaraki doesn't want to see himself but he's doing better.

Kurogiri has taught him how to cook and he's making a fantastic fried rice with egg on top whenever Deku comes over (about once a week). Allmight visits him daily - he's at the hospital anyway, so why not? - and some days they spend by reading books together or Shigaraki explaining Memes to Allmight who has to peer at his phone through reading glasses like the old man he is.

Maybe in a year or so he might be able to start the rehabilitation process himself but he's not thinking about that now. He's just trying to get better, one day after the other, and not think too much about the future ahead.

[kacchanisms]

(spoilers for mha 395)

the final arc of mha is intentionally written to be the most pacifistic. the heroes want to save the core villains, to prove that their hearts have changed, to show that their society is redeemable, that they have a future. toga dying would collapse the whole arc.

it would be an egregious misstep on the author's side to shatter the narrative they spent nearly 400 chapters on. pairings and other nonsense aside, this ending would run directly counter to the ideas of the story.

there's foreshadowing as well. in toga's "final" moments, she refuses to be arrested. for her, it's freedom or death, living freely as a villain or dying before she's captured.

hawks said to twice to turn himself in or die. freedom or death, twice fought and died.

there has to be a third option, where toga can live freely as she is. ochako offered her another path through the promise of giving her blood, by telling her that her authentic self was beautiful, that her love was genuine and worthy of being reciprocated. acceptance.

hawks failed to see another path when he confronted twice. he didn't come to the battlefield with the desire to communicate, he came with his weapons out to arrest twice, no discussion. he had another choice there, you know? to reach out with real friendship. but he didn't.

ochako has done what hawks could not. she's forged a deep emotional connection with toga. now, hawks has to provide the third option, where toga doesn't die, where she can live freely as herself without imprisonment.

i don't know how toga will be saved from death. but hawks... has the potential to give toga a new future. he was once the child of a villain, someone who had no other avenues in life, who was eventually taken captive by the hero institution and trained into a child soldier. ultimately, hawks is a kind soul. all hawks ever held in his heart was the desire to help others, a savior complex, but this was exploited to make him a false hero, a bird in a cage. after his mother left, he saw a way out, but the mentality still remains to go for the kill.

... because he's a "hawk". a name that taught him how to be a predator.

himiko is also a bird. she's associated with sparrow imagery. she has a free love for others; in another world, she would've liked to help them. as she is, she is happy that she lived as she wanted.

since she was young, society has treated her love as predatory, which left a lasting impression on her self-worth. it forced her into a cage, one that was impossible for her to live in, until she finally became a villain so that she could live freely.

hawks and toga are akin to each other. they've both dropped a person from great heights. but they're also not irredeemable.

and hawks killed twice, toga's friend. those two are bound to interact one more time, just for that. this time hawks has the option to spare toga.

hawks and toga are bound by twice's death, a murderer and the best friend of the person he murdered. so hawks has obligations he needs to fulfill towards toga, to even begin to make it up to her. saving her would be the first step. since toga now parallels twice in this situation, hawks is also arriving at his own reckoning, just like how endeavor had to finally engage with touya, reckon with his own actions as a father. like endeavor, he may be tempted to self-destruct alongside his victim, or... he's crucial to saving her.

it's also maybe the only way out of the cage for hawks, too. the way to rid himself of the influence his hero-soldier upbringing had on him. to possibly acknowledge, apologize or atone for his actions.

with his past, hawks might have the chance to give toga another option -- to live freely, either as a rehabilitating civilian or a hero. she would be able to stay by ochako's side, where, like the LoV, ochako would reciprocate her love and provide her acceptance and community.

either way, there's so much set up for a strong ending with toga, building off mha's themes of redemption, acceptance, reaching out not with violence but with care and understanding. killing toga permanently would wreck all the careful work that went into this narrative.

[adventureofthedancinggirl]

BNHA Ch. 416 Thoughts

spoilers below

Izuku looks so feral here. Let's fucking go.

YES. I'm glad rewind isn't just going to be used as an easy out

(sidenote: Ectoplasm's lines being in katakana kept throwing me off at first)

When Eri-chan cries, I cry 😭

Kota calling Izuku, "Midoriya-niichan" 😭

Kota comforting Eri-chan 😭 (him doing this by saying he knows because he's a crybaby too made me laugh though)

Hello, civilian dude...what is your role in this plot? (and where did those undercover AFO underlings go?)

Yaomomo and Kaminari. WTF ARE WE REALLY NOT GONNA SEE ANYTHING ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THEY WERE FIGHTING?? AND MONOMA

Fukidashi's face isn't a speech bubble...he exhausted his quirk 😢

Denki talking about comics and comparing himself and Kirishima to side characters. My heart 💔

Getting a little meta here, pointing out how things usually go down in the shonen genre. Yeah, Yaomomo probably has better things to read since the shonen genre doesn't respect women.

Denki being afraid that his worrying means that he doesn't believe in Izuku. It's okay Denki, we're subverting the usual tropes here, don't worry

Tsuyu crying while she watches Ochako being taken away on the helicopter

OMG, reporter person. Good that you're helping her, but her name is URAVITY

WAIT, WHERE IS TOGA?????

Wait...was Tsuyu even there? The last time we saw her, it was actually a clone, wasn't it? 🤔

Wait...who's sitting next to Ochako? dying for HD scans over here

Hawks remembering Uraraka's speech and calling her by her hero name. (Also, with the way he was lying on the ground, I thought Hawks was All Might at first glance until I saw Tokoyami and Machia)

Lady Nagant & Rock Lock's conversation...I think it's important that she wants to believe in Izuku because unlike him, she lost hope and could only see one way out of being part of the corrupt system.

I have been waiting forever for this - Izuku seeing Tenko's past and the house where everything started.

Tomura mirroring his father in his final moments...oh boy.

That last panel...Izuku's in his school uniform. 🤔

[villainsandvictimsalliance]

At the risk of talking about things I don't know much about or don't understand yet because I haven't been keeping up with the manga:

It's not surprising to find there's a whole horrifying backstory to AFO and Youvhi origins. Horikoshi has consistently given logical explanations about why the heroes and villains are the way they are: who hurt them when they were just kids, if they have a legacy to carry or shoulder the sins of their parents/families, if it was something to do with the economics or discrimination, etc.

Characters in bnha don't exist in an empty world. The environments conditions them to change and act and they push their context to change too. It's more... realistic, the consequences of their actions feed the world around them and it establishes the background for other characters.

It doesn't mean the situation is the same for every character that shares a "hero" or "villain" title. For example, you can't compare Toga's experience to AFO when considering a sort of redemption. First because their stories are very different: the world AFO grew up in is not the same as the world Toga grew up in, their family experiences are not the same, even things like Toga being a girl or almost graduating from middle school matter. They were both perceived as monsters, but AFO's reality is way more cynical.

There's the age factor, too. Toga has committed many crimes, but at the end of the day she's still a teenager. Ochako offered her a way out, a hand to hold and Toga took it. There's a willingness to be different, to rectify, to heal, to move forward from the hurt and see the world in a new light. On the other hand, AFO is old as fuck. He's not a kid, not a teen, not even an adult. AFO's been persistent in choosing to cause harm, he has ignored every and any chances to change, that man he is now is not only a product of his infancy; he made himself, he decided that for himself. It's not logical to push the narrative that he's ignorant or naive and does not know better. He's not dumb.

That's the problem with dumping all characters in the same category and then not being able to say what the differences are. "Villain" is such a broad term. "Antagonist" even more. You cannot simply decide one future and apply them to every one of them, at least not in bnha. You could do that in Naruto, where the theme and the intention of the story allows you to throw them all into the "they were just hurt but deserved a better life" category, but again, not in bnha.

So, AFO's past is made to give depth to both the character and the narrative, it is also a tool meant to communicate the theme of the story, it's a way of explaining the character actions (not justifying them, explaining them).

He's not the good guy. He's not even the villain you should be rooting for. BUT you should feel bad for his childhood. It's a cautionary tale, it's Greek tragedy shaped, it's how the monster came to be, but don't get confused, the monster is still a monster 'cause he decided to be that, no matter the sorrows of his past.

Or at least that's what I think by the information I have gathered around about the new chapters.

[lady-of-snails]

bae what are ur thoughts on the new bnha chapters and how the ending is looking so far!!! i've been a fan of your fics since the beginning (since "snail has bkdk brainrot" had three parts LOL) and i know you haven't posted fics in a while but would LOVE to here ur interpretation/perspective on the canon events/the trajectory of bkdk's relationship!! i love how you illustrate and characterize their relationship sm and thank u for all the joy you've brought me through ur work the past few years!!

omg an og snail reader hi!! ty for the love <3 and UGH my thoughts about the ending,,, i will put them under the cut to hide spoilers!

honestly? i'm a fan of bkdk's ending!! ik its not the canonization everyone dreamed of but i actually love that there were 0 canon ships by the end :') so often stories feel like shakespeare comedies where absolutely everyone has to get paired up in some way even if that doesn't make sense, and i'm really glad hori didn't do that!! esp with ochako and izuku - I HAVE SO MANY BIG FEELINS ABOUT OCHAKOS ENDING TOO BTW :')) I LOVE HER SO MUCH AND I LOVE THAT SHES CARRYING TOGA WITH HER AND ACTUALLY MAKING AN ACTIVE EFFORT TO CHANGE THE WORLD (even though i HATE that toga died and think that shouldn't have happened,,,).

ok, as for bkdk specifically - QUIRKLESS DEKU GETTING TO STILL BE A HERO??? KATSUKI CANONICALLY DEDICATING YEARS OF HIS LIFE AND MONEY TO MAKING DEKU'S "IMPOSSIBLE" DREAMS COME TRUE BC HE CANT STAND THE IDEA OF IZUKU NOT BEING A HERO BY HIS SIDE?? KATSUKI CANONICALLY DREAMING OF BEING A HERO WITH IZUKU FOR THE REST OF HIS LIFE?? literally what more could i realistically ask for (except for a final hand holding panel,,, hori pls we were so close </3). in my mind that is canon bkdk they love each other so much they're best friends they get to be heroes together, AND we get to see that deku really CAN be a hero without a quirk :') i loved the bait n switch ending where u think it's just gonna be deku saying "at least i can still inspire people" (which is sweet but a lil cliche) and then NOPE,, ur gay ass boyfriend changed his entire belief system just bc of you <3

the development of katsuki throughout the whole thing just means SO much to me,,, he grew up so much and now hes an ADULT and he's so beautiful :')) and the devotion that he and izuku show each other throughout, whether or not it has any specific labels, means SO much to me too (esp as a person who doesn't always feel comfortable with labels of any kind). the fact that hori emphasized that it was KATSUKI who drove the fundraising efforts, but also that all of class 1-A worked together, is just lsdskldklsd izuku is so so loved :'))

and god. i love ochako so much. her moments in the last chapters were so dear to my heart, watching her break down while trying to hold it in behind a smile was so painful and so izuku-like of her and i was so happy when he came over the hill to comfort her because those two are so similar and they are so best friends and their relationships means SO MUCH TO MEEEE. ik im rambling im just,, full of love for these characters.

and they all love each other so much,,, in so many different ways. and that just really strikes a chord with me <33 and pro hero bkdk and support gear deku are CANON!!! lfg