#Please don't treat this as a meta I can express my points better and I am still in pajamas

[tonya-the-chicken]

To be fair I feel it's unfair coz what made Muscular the way he is? And how is a simple convo that would go the same with Shiggy enough to convince? Rappa is a good guy coz hes a chaotic neutral trope but he couldn't care less about Eri being tortured but coz he just is a meathead who is implied to have fought with parents and run off to be a fighter he's a good guy suddenly. Also we know Overhaul's tragedy but he's a nobody? And why forget Moonfish, Mustard and the other "good"er Yakuzas?

On one hand, I always felt the manga will go this way. Deku is a better hero than All Might, that's established from the start. A number of themes were raised to show society's flaws like abuse, poverty, and prejudices that pushed people into villainy. It could be guessed that one of the way Deku's time would be different from All Might's is that the approach to fixing society would be more structural and not symbolic. Villain rehabilitation is hinted at here and there. They are not all evil and some of them just ended up in bad circumstances

On the second hand, Hori doesn't go all in with delivering this message. 1) Maybe because the manga is so overfilled with characters and themes or 2) maybe he doesn't want to make stances that would end up too political. Criminal rehabilitation is an actual real-life thing, writing it openly and clearly as a good thing is making a statement. It's a bit softer to talk about "saving" the bad guys and making villains way too sympathetic. 3) It also feels like a lack of knowledge on how exactly such things work. Like he never encountered an absolutely tragic person, who suffered greatly because of their stupid harmful actions and yet refused any help. It's naïve to expect you can save anyone and he tries to put it with Muscular's case but then. The line between who can be saved and who can't is unclear. It's blurry. Why is one character treated this way and another pretty the same differently? This hypocrisy is fine in storytelling (they are just not important as a character) but bad if you want to drive a message across... And 4) showing something as a better solution will require you to criticize the previous solutions. That Horikoshi doesn't do at all. He wants to keep All Might as a symbol of perfection while showcasing all the dirt under the rug. His solution was purely cosmetic, why not say it out loud? It didn't fix anything, it just made people safe for as long as one (1) man is alive and well. The worst security system I have ever seen. In conclusion, Horikoshi doesn't go all out, doesn't apply the "rules" to everyone, and ends up inconsistent, like he doesn't understand how certain thing works, making it all sound unbelievable

On the third hand, is shounen action manga with plenty of violence a place to say violence is bad at all? There are a lot of "rules of the genre" and heroes fighting villains is a classic one, yet Horikoshi ends up making a statement against violence or killing villains. But then they have to kill AFO without any questions. He points out that the thing™ is bad but our heroes were doing the thing™ from the very start and they don't end up overthinking their ways. He questions the rules of the genre without subverting them. It's a one-time thing that doesn't change anything globally so we end up with big major points that lead to anything. It feels like a conflict between what Horikoshi tries to say and what kind of story he writes (probably tied to previous point)

On the fourth hand, I was in a twitter argument about this ones and I really enjoy winning it post factum

Muscular is bad because he is bad, born this way perhaps but Toga is bad (born this way) and we pity her. Muscular is bad because he enjoys suffering but then so does Dabi and he is given more sympathy than ever. They deserve saving because they are the main characters is what I am thinking and Muscular is there to be shown a lesson. I wish it was one of the main cast who could be used for it, that would drive the point better but that would mean having a good nuanced position on something and making a statement and being smart

I would say Rappa is in the gray area, not really a good guy but he plays this role in Vigilantes. Curious. I wished that Shie Hassaikai would join the heroes at the end to showcase the growth perhaps but ugh eh why do this

I need to wrap this whole thing up. I think Hori wanted to write a smart manga with criticism of society but ended up writing some Naruto-style mess where so many things are happening that nothing really matters. You give up trying to find a point but then there are so many hints here and there that fandom arrives at the opposite ideas and fights all day long. LoV are revolutionaries let's go

[knbposting]

reposting a meta i did under someone else's post bc people have been asking me to psychoanalyse aomine or kagami and i think nobody saw this one :( anyway @cemetery14 's original post is here!

jumping on for a second to talk about this bc it's so important to me. i'm not trying to mansplain aomine daiki here but his attitude is one of my fav parts of knb so pls excuse me if i say something obvious HSDHSDJH

just as a preface, i spoke about aomine's sense of security in the people he loves HERE, in the context of my aokaga fics. it's mostly hc because it talks about his parents whom we don't get to see in canon, but i'm fairly confident in this analysis to discuss this angle without referencing to that. i founded the parent hcs on how he acts with momoi.

SO. let's discuss aomine's relationships first and foremost. in the series, aomine refers to THREE people by their first names, and he does it exclusively when he feels comfortable and/or friendly with someone enough that they've earnt it. unlike with some of the other characters, he doesn't do it to get a rise out of anyone by assuming familiarity, and he doesn't do it to make fun.

he calls kuroko tetsu when kuroko proves that not only does he love basketball as much as he does, but that he's a good person and someone aomine feels he can trust. even when they fall out, even when aomine believes that kuroko must hate him, and he wants to hate kuroko for his naive view of basketball, he still calls him tetsu. he doesn't waver at all, not around other people, or shouting his name at the top of his lungs from the back of an arena. kuroko is tetsu. it's a badge of honour.

momoi is his childhood best friend and someone he does not believe will ever leave. she is, and has been for over ten years by the time the show starts, satsuki. in my view, he treats momoi as one would a sister, almost, because he treats her honestly pretty badly with no expectation that she's taking him seriously. he's surprised when he makes her cry (like in the rain when she's suggesting he pull out of a competition due to injury), because yeah he's calling her ugly and telling her to fuck off and all of that, but there's an unbreakable bond underlying his meanness that aomine trusts won't break. he shouldn't treat his friends like this, but i'm just trying to come at this from his perspective. he expresses his love for her quietly, but it's there.

as i said in my linked hc post, aomine does not believe that he has to do anything special in order to earn the love of those he trusts. he does not believe that their love is conditional, he does not think that it's linked to his skill or status as a prodigy. for better or for worse, he feels known by these people, and therefore, he's immature about responsibilities and regularly acts up around the people he loves. he ditches people, he shirks chores, and he genuinely does not care about annoying or bothering people.

and now we come to sakurai. aomine and sakurai have a faaascinating dynamic. they're classmates as well as teammates, but i'd love to know how they started talking. neither of them have the kind of personality to just sit next to the other bc they're in basketball club together. sakurai appears skittish, insecure, wet, pathetic, we love you sakurai but you have a reputation. and it's bullshit. sakurai's "drawback", what makes him look weak in the eyes of those around him, is in his need to please others. he takes it bitterly personally when he does something wrong, or he believes he does something wrong, quickly reducing to tears and the classic "i'm sorry! i'm sorry! i don't want to live! i deserve to die!" spiel he usually descends to. but in clutch mode, in his favourite sport, sakurai can be just as arrogant as the rest of touou. he has the confidence to make threes against strong opponents instead of just passing to the prodigal ace. he wants to score points. he isn't interested in proving himself to anyone, he already knows that he's great.

sakurai's actual personality, rather than his perceived one, is probably what draws aomine to him. i can very easily imagine that they're in a game early on, and sakurai looks like he's about to get into trouble with the opposing team who are picking on him a little. but instead of crumbling, he gives them the most disgraceful look of disrespect, and scores an amazing three. it's a moment like that which would make aomine interested, and as he pays more attention, he'd notice other things he also would like. sakurai is kind, he loves basketball, and he is not afraid of aomine. he's not afraid of his skill, however much he is impressed by it, and he doesn't see aomine is someone to prove himself to or compete with. sakurai honestly doesn't seem like he thinks about aomine much at all. which aomine would like. he's also a great cook. again, my idea is that they were eating together, and aomine is looming because he kinda wants to make friends but isn't quite sure yet, and sakurai offers him a little food. you know, like the neighbourhood cat? anyway. once he's had some, he wants to have more, and so, a friendship occurs.

sakurai's food making is one of his more beloved traits in his team, and everyone is comfortable enough with him to snatch and steal etc. like wakamatsu eating all the fucking lemons so aomine wouldn't get any. my fav team. stupid idiots. there are instances were sakurai expresses that he wishes they wouldn't (like the cursed replace novel where aomine eats all sakurai's food he made for the team during a study session to do aomine's homework, without him knowing, and when he discovers an empty fridge, he starts crying and has to be comforted), but overall his protestations are, in my opinion, coming from modesty rather than actual discomfort. sakurai is a strong enough person not to have people walk all over him, he simply doesn't mind being useful to a team he has grown to love and respect.

sakurai is the third person aomine refers to by his first name. sakurai earns this in his basketball skill, he earns it in how he stares fearlessly and disgracefully at nonbelieving opponents. the food definitely helps, but aomine wouldn't have just stolen a stranger's food. he doesn't view sakurai as weak. he doesn't bully him. wakamatsu may think that aomine is bullying him or taking advantage of him, but aomine isn't like that. he doesn't take advantage of the weak, he protects them. like the lady's bag getting snatched. like fighting haizaki when he knew his friends couldn't (not that he thinks they're weak, it's just that their hands were tied). i don't think i've seen him ever take advantage of anyone like that. he certainly takes advantage of friendships as i've mentioned above, but it feels different to me. idk maybe i'm just an aomine excuser at this point. it'll happen again.

for someone who doesn't sincerely smile much, btw, look at how he is in that scene with sakurai:

sakurai: but... this is... aomine: huh? sakurai: sorry, go ahead!

i think this dialogue is less aomine bullying his way into sakurai's bento, and more sakurai realising that the neighbourhood cat is getting more comfortable with him. would he have told him to get lost? probably not. but he doesn't move away when aomine's near, and he isn't flinching or worried about anything bad happening. if anything, his eyes closing when aomine's draped all over him shows, to me, that he's sort of accepting his fate, bc he knows aomine's not gonna do anything but take the good bits of his bento (not a bully. wakamatsu. please calm down). in fact, look at aomine's reaction when wakamatsu tries defending sakurai, whom he believes is getting kinda bullied here:

first, he checks on sakurai. look, he's fine. sakurai cries at everything, he's calm here. he hasn't overstepped any boundaries. but to me, aomine's first words being a reply to wakamatsu's claims that he should be at practise, and not about stealing food, suggests that aomine hasn't actually considered that he could be doing anything wrong enough to rile wakamatsu up this much. it has gotta be about coming to practise. he stops eating sakurai's bento and tries to leave. i think he'd probably be embarrassed by the idea that he could bully anyone. mean as he is, selfish as he is, aomine's good at heart. he'd definitely think his whole team was stupid as fuck if they believed that aomine would bully sakurai, or degrade him in any way. aomine's just showing that he's comfortable with him in the only way he tends to: by being a little shit.

phew! aomine brain dump out of the way. let's discuss haizaki more briefly because haizaki is a lot of fun, but he's not as fun to talk about as aomine.

i think it's a super interesting, deliberate choice to introduce aomine as a nuisance and then haizaki as a nuisance in a similar setting. aomine's food stealing, to me, looks like it's founded on habit and friendship. he doesn't view sakurai as weak and pathetic, and i think already by that point is calling him ryou, so they're solid friends. aomine is a definite loner and doesn't seem to want friends, but ryou is one of them. one of three, as i mentioned, whom he refers to by first name.

haizaki's entrance in the food hall is different because he doesn't have that base level of friendship with kuroko at all. from memory, he calls people by their first names and it makes them uncomfortable. that's likely why he does it. he is big on disrupting the balance of things. i know he hates the generation of miracles, i know he hates team play and friendship dynamics (likely because he finds it difficult to relate to people like that, and to forgive when someone does something that he finds annoying or weak). haizaki does prey on the weak. he's a menace to women walking around at night, he's a menace to kise in their match (his views on kise are super interesting but i don't wanna get into them now, but he does view kise as weak). and he definitely thinks kuroko's weak. it's no surprise that he targets kuroko's plate (this is all from memory so i'm hoping i'm right lmao).

haizaki's food stealing is a power play. look at what i can do, i can take what i want. you can't do shit about it. when called out for it, he says this:

(mido said fuck YOUUUUU aomine) now, i don't think this is actually haizaki believing that aomine is doing it for the same reasons he is. i don't think haizaki gives a shit, and he just sees aomine making a fuss and wants to cause trouble. (side note: aomine's i only take when i'm hungry is so funny. he's saying i'm DYING before i steal from my friends!!! that's so stupid. he's such a pain. but he's never going to say "i only steal from my best friends" because that is crazy talk, this is still aomine, whether he's 12 or whatever.)

murasakibara complains, drawing himself into haizaki's zone of interest, and then haizaki shows he doesn't give a fuck by talking only of the food. i am SURE there are translation issues to be taken into consideration, but haizaki's word choice at face value is: a) your fried chicken looks good too, b) that's mine now. essentially: the fuck are you gonna do about it? he likely doesn't view mura as weak, i think here he's just willing to fight for it. mura plays defence and haizaki loses interest.

haizaki seeks to remind them that he isn't emotionally invested in any of this shit, he just takes what he wants to because he can. it's a power play, and everyone knows it.

the fact that it's aomine putting up a fight about not stealing food is telling to how different they are. it doesn't matter that aomine thinks he only steals when he's hungry so it's alright, if he even does view it like that at all (aomine has a history of talking shit and lying sooo). aomine sets them apart by making it clear that he doesn't have any ulterior motives. haizaki is very quick to announce that he does. he isn't doing it because he has to, he's stealing and being a general menace because he wants to. and he tends to target either those he views as weak, or those he knows will fight him.

i wonder why he didn't take from akashi? i wonder whether it's a testament to nijimura's fighting skills or that haizaki didn't fight back when nijimura beat him up?

anyway. i'm so sorry i wrote an essay on your post. i love this topic obviously and i'm critically insane.

[the-ghost-king]

Interestingly enough the fandom isn't always rational with their criticism. Take Percy and Rachel for instance. A perfectly healthy cute and functional relationship dynamic, but people really hated it because it got in the way of Percy/Annabeth.

I think it can also come down to the fact that not all situations are exactly equal if that makes sense. If you have a character dynamic in couple A, that often playfully bully of fight with eachother that's a different dynamic than relationship B, where one person has trauma resulting from bullying and the other parter behaves in roughly the same way as couple A do. In that case the behavior may be seen as inappropriate. Not that this example has anything to do with the ships at hand, but I think a long form meta examining the different paralleling issues from both relationships and their validity would be easier.

Also I haven't seen anything about about Nico/Will being called toxic. Yikes, what are people saying exactly, because I don't doubt a lot of people might be projecting unconcious bias.

Oh absolutely, I may seem young but I remember the Rachel vs Annabeth ship wars all too well... I do not want to go back 😅

The rest is under a read more though, I got a little carried away talking! Also this isn't my best post on the issue by far so please feel free to check out the tags I mention later on!

(AN: I use nblm alongside mlm in this post because some nblm individuals will consider their attraction to men as gay, or queer, while others will not and those individuals are often closely connected to mlm experiences and they also deserve to talk about their thoughts and feelings if they wish. I am aware nonbinary people are not a monolith and not all nonbinary people will categorize themselves or their attraction this way, it's up to nonbinary individuals reading this to determine where they fall on what)

As for Solangelo being toxic some of the conversations revolve around the ableist nature of the ship, this is definitely most obviously a dynamic in BoO, and it's a more than fair point about the ship I don't have anything negative to say there in the slightest!

(The above parallels with the idea that Will is introduced as a "healer character" for the "sad gay kid", which is a fair criticism as well but one that's often left rather one sided, because while that is true- if it's a way Nico likes being treated (watched closely for injuries and cared for) then it's not wrong, and in ToN Will is seen overstepping Nico's boundaries which causes a healthy argument about Will doing so and he stops, so if Nico doesn't tell Will "no" or some variation he's obviously not horribly uncomfortable with the situation, or from the way it would be interpreted alongside previous text, there's fair reason to think he likes it)

The thing with Solangelo I see often is "Nico is still processing trauma, and internalized homophobia and isn't ready for a relationship" which is a huge misunderstanding on how trauma and internalized homophobia work as a whole, because the experiences can be different for everyone. You can absolutely date someone while processing internalized homophobia, you may struggle with certain things but it is absolutely doable for some people. And trauma is such a varied thing, and it's not like he's solely relying on Will either, he is seeing Dionysus for therapy and getting the help he needs! Your life doesn't have to go on hold for therapy no matter how much trauma you are sorting through! (Not disclosing my medical history or anything but I have struggled with both things and my life didn't stop for me to deal with them, I made new friends, went on dates, etc- it is possible depending on the person so the very narrow view of "this is unhealthy" and "this is impossible" rubs me wrong when it's treated as fact over opinion, because it's an opinion).

There's also constant discussions about how fandom (in current) fetishizes both Nico and Will, which I, and other mlm and nblm have spoken our own thoughts on multiple times to be largely ignored by the biggest perpetrators of this "they're overly fetishized narrative". There's also fairly consistent discussion of how fandom treats Nico and reduces him to uwu small gay boy, which more often than not seems to mean "effeminate" rather than actually harmful stereotyping (yes queer men are allowed to be "girly" especially considering there is some canon text that could be interpreted with that meaning, if there wasn't a plausible way to determine canon that way I wouldn't care if people were going after others feminizing Nico a bit- but the issue is again, fact and feeling aren't the same and fandom seem to conflate the two rather often).

(Some of that ties into nonbinary Nico head canons which are common as of current, and that argument quickly becomes transphobic is people don't watch themselves... Even without bringing nonbinary Nico into the equation, headcanoning Nico as femme isn't bad or wrong, and to say otherwise becomes gender policing which is bad).

There's also this weird obsession with there being a "correct way" to ship mlm ships (specifically solangelo), which when considering it's not mlm or nblm saying those things, it becomes really uncomfortable. Especially because the wording of some posts is less "hey this is homophobic" and comes off more like people are more upset at seeing an mlm couple than at the fact that they're being shipped poorly.

All of this in combination with the constant, talking over of queer guys (specifically mlm and nblm) comes off really messed up, and yeah homophobic.

It's not something that can be pinned down to one specific thing but rather a series of smaller microagressions (which in sure most of are intended in good faith but are being filled with subconscious bias) that build up over time- which is why my concern is that solangelo is facing harsher criticism/different treatment that percabeth simply for being a queer ship.

I can't be 100% sure on that like I said, because that's something that is hard to gain tangible evidence for, or maybe even impossible :/

If there wasn't so many other small things going on alongside the harsher criticism of solangelo, I would honestly just ignore it... But the weird policing of "how to ship solangelo" while proclaiming it's "overly fetishized" all while speaking over a not insignificant number of mlm and nblm who have agreed with certain opinions, or taken time to write their own (+ some of the rhetoric that can be found on he blogs of people commonly expressing these opinions) is super uncomfortable and definitely homophobic... Even if they were treating the ship kind of weird, but treating the queer guys talking about it well and actually listening (because the current solangelo fandom probably has the highest proportion of queer guys in comparison to any other fandom I've been in with an mlm ship as of right now) I wouldn't be so bothered... But sadly that's not the case..

(I'd also like to note out of my posts criticizing the current conversations happening around the issue my post saying "listen to mlm voices" got a lot more notes than some of the other ones, which I can't say is specifically anything, because like solangelo perhaps being treated unfairly to percabeth, I am willing to acknowledge there might not be an issue- but it's weird how often mlm and nblm's posts on "listen to us" will be uplifted but never any actual criticism... Just a thought)

I detail things a little closer and in more detail in some of my posts tagged #fandom homophobia, #mlm fetishism, and #gender policing in fandom, it's not a full or comprehensive list (I've only really started speaking up in the last month or so), and it is largely solangelo specific. However I am always interested in listening to the voices of other queer guys about the issues and hearing out their thoughts as well (people aren't a monolith and I'm interested in trying to be as nuanced as possible!) and I acknowledge that although I am mlm and am going to be a little better at recognizing issues and calling them out (although I like every person am not perfect of course)

So yeah! That's a bit of the current ongoings, again not a full comprehensive list, and definitely not my best explanation ever but I think the point gets across well enough? Definitely check out my other tags if you're interested in more, there's also definitely more posts I need to make on some of the things I've seen (maybe not all of them so solangelo fandom specific, and maybe some of them even more solangelo fandom specific) but it's rather slow work in progress!

[samanthalightning]

She's Got A Date-EoWells X Allen!reader- Part VI

*The GIF is not mine. All rights to the owner*

Part V

Summary: You went to the hospital to tell Joe and your Brother about your relationship. But it seems you weren't the only one with the same idea.

Warnings: Make out sesh?

***

You did not have the best idea, you knew that. Your adoptive father is in the hospital after he almost died and now, you decided you will give him a heart attack.

Wells made it very clear that there is a time to do this, specifically after Joe gets discharged. Much to his dismay, you pleaded the man non-stop. He gave in eventually.

Now, walking down the busy hallway of the hospital to go to Joe's room, it became more and more evident that you were really going to regret this. The nervousness you felt was nauseating. Your hands were cold and sweating like crazy. You felt bad for Wells; he was holding your hands the entire time.

"Are you sure you want to do this?" He asked for a tenth time that night.

"Yeah totally. I mean— he's already in the hospital— what could go wrong?" You chuckled nervously.

He grimaced and pressed his lips in a thin line. That says it all. Bad idea.

Approaching the room, you let his hand go. You don't give it away and be able to explain properly.

You took a deep breath, preparing yourself. You stepped inside to find Iris there with Eddie by her side. She was saying something and hugging a bedridden Joe. They look like they just arrived as well.

These two are rarely in the same room with Joe around, and you have a feeling that they might be both here for the same reason as you do. But hopefully, they don't, because in this situation two is definitely not better than one.

"Got more room for one?" All heads turned to you. You walked towards Joe and went in for a tight hug. "You gave us a scare there, old man."

"Can't get rid of me that easy," he chuckled heartily, as you let go.

"What are you doing here, Dr. Wells?" Barry's brows furrowed.

Wells gave him a small shrug. "Just want to wish Joe a speedy recovery."

Among other things.

"Thank you, Doctor,"

The whole room shifted. You even started fiddling with the hem of your coat. Tense, awkward. You all had turned quiet as you exchanged nervous glances, uncertain how to break it to the man on the bed without him going ballistic.

Barry, knowing what Iris and Eddie are here to do, cleared his throat. "I'll let you guys talk." He turned to leave, not before signaling to you to do the same thing.

"No. Stay, Barry," Barry shot you a strange look, but stayed nonetheless, putting his hands in his pockets, shifting on this leg awkwardly.

A jolt of fear rushes through your body. If it felt so bad earlier, right now it's even scarier. You sucked in a breath, glancing over to Wells for support and approval. He nodded sternly, eyes staring back ever so assuring. This is really it. You turned back to Joe, letting go of your breath and spoke,

"Dad, we have something—"

"Joe, we have something—"

Both of your heads whipped, sharing a look.

"You go first," she gestured to you.

You shook your head rapidly. "No, you go first,"

"No-"

"Okay," Joe grunted, sitting up. "I know y'all dating."

Your heads quickly whipped to Joe froze. You were both mortified.

"I know,"

"You do?" Iris blinked, stunned. Everyone was.

He rolled his eyes in disappointment for no one in this room giving him enough credit. "I'm a detective, remember? You are lousy liars." You all laughed, knowing it's true. He looked at Wells, finger pointing to him accusingly. "And you, Wells. You think I didn't see those hickeys? You showed up with them and my baby girl was limping— you think I wouldn't put two and two together?"

You groaned, burying your face in your hands to hide your blush. You were not just embarrassed, but deeply guilty.

"So, you're not mad?" Eddie inquired.

"Oh, I'm mad. If the doctor hadn't confiscated my gun, we'd be having an entirely different conversation," Joe told him.

The poor man paled, the smile wearing off his face. He gave Iris a nod, and turned to leave. You knew it's time for a family meeting.

"Hey babe, meet me in the car?" You turned to Wells, eyes hinting what's about to go down. He quickly got the gist, and excused himself.

When both men are out of earshot, Barry and Iris gave you an incredulous look. "Wells?!" They both exclaimed.

"What?"

Joe was shaking his head, eyes looking on you and Iris, clearly displeased. But obviously not hell bent. "You girls and your taste in men will be the death of me."

You moved to his side, you placed your head on his shoulder, hugging him. Iris did the same thing. Not that he was very willing to admit it, but you and Iris have him wrapped around your fingers, and you know how to always convince him.

"Please don't be mad," you cooed to him, nuzzling to him and holding his hand.

"But I am. A cop and the man who blew a hole in the city," he sighed heavily.

"It's not so bad," Iris appealed.

"Yeah right," he scoffed.

You both try to make him feel better about the situation, but it occurred to you that this one will definitely take time to get accustomed to. You both went behind his back, and that's something.

You have to leave since Wells is waiting for you in the car. Barry offered to walk you, and you know there's an underlying agenda to that. But he hasn't said anything since you entered the elevator, didn't even dare look at you. He's walking on eggshells, always been.

"So, are you mad?" You broke the silence, fiddling with the sleeve of your coat.

"No. Just surprised." You thought that was perfectly understandable. Then he turned to you and snapped. "I mean, Wells? How? When?" He bombarded you with questions with his hands in the air.

"When you were in a coma. 6 months ago,"

"6 months?! Why didn't you tell me?!" He exclaimed. Your face scrunched up.

"In case you forgot, you just woke up from a coma, and the last thing I want to give you is another reason to be in one again," you explained. "You got powers, and meta-humans appeared."

He sighed, nodding. He put his hand inside his pocket, before asking, "Does he want kids? Can he have th—"

Your cheeks went warm, blushing red. "We haven't had that talk yet," you interrupted.

"Right." Barry mumbled, realizing how awkward his questions were. "Do you love him?"

You nodded, a small smile formed on your lips, cheeks warming up. "Yes."

Barry didn't say anything anymore. You know he's still trying to take it all in. His baby sister is dating his mentor, who is almost the same age as their Dad. It's quite a shock.

"Is it weird?" You cocked an eyebrow.

Barry snorted. "Yeah." You bursted out laughing.

The elevator dings, reaching the underground parking area. The door slides open and you step out. When you got to your car, Wells was waiting there for you.

Barry stood there, he and Wells were having a stare off or something. For a second, you panicked. He's not a totally violent person, but it doesn't mean he can't get angry.

But Barry just stifled a curt nod at Wells. "Take care of her," he said.

"I will,"

He turned and walked away, back to the elevator. You helped Wells get in the car, before climbing in yourself. You started the engine and drove out of the hospital's parking lot.

"Should I drop you off at the lab?" You asked him.

He shook his head. "No. I think a night in with you tonight would be very nice,"

You looked over to him and shot him a smile.

"Okay." You muttered.

Despite the fact that Barry was the one who kicked Nimbus' ass, but your muscles were sore and tense. In your defense though, it was one hell of a day. You just want to sleep and cuddle with Wells. You are so glad that you have the rest of the weekend to doze off.

You came out of the bathroom and stepped inside of your bedroom after a warm, relaxing, well-needed shower.

Wells was already sitting on the bed, tucked in, already halfway through a book. You love how he can lose himself while having a read. His brows furrowed slightly, eyes focused solely on a certain page, then quickly moved quickly to the other page. He reads a book faster than anyone you know, aside from Barry.

You slipped in the sheets, sitting up beside him. You peeked at what he was reading to see which one of literature and philosophy finest books has captured his attention again. Your eyebrows scrunched up, puzzled at what you are reading; it's written in Latin.

"What are you reading?"

"Julius Caesar," he replied, flipping to the next page.

"I thought you read that already?" Your tone changes, subtly hinting him that it's time for bed.

"I did," he answered, not even taking his eyes off it.

You glared at him in disbelief and huffed. Perhaps it was too subtle.

"So, maybe you can ditch that and let's go to bed?" You inquired with the same tone.

He glanced over to you, not showing any sign of expression at all. He stared at you and you know this means to let him finish the book he read over a hundred times before. So you stood your ground, and hardened your stare.

He sighed in defeat. "Fine." He closed the book shut, took his glasses and set it on your nightstand.

"Thank you,"

You were ready to lay down and sleep for the next 24 hours, but he spoke suddenly.

"I booked us a table tomorrow night to this fantastic restaurant midtown,"

Your head snapped to him, a surprised look immediately etched in your face. He said so nonchalantly. "Wha—" you were speechless, sputtering words, your mind processing what he just said. You try to form coherent words, but all that came out from your mouth was a laugh, bewildered. "A-are you taking me out on a date?"

He grinned, clearly amused with your reaction. "Yes. It's time we have some decent steaks, don't you think?" You swatted his chest, shooting him daggers, while he laughed. You swore to God if you perfected cooking steak, it'll be the death of him.

"I mean it." He ceased laughing, taking a hold of your hand. "I have a lot to make up for. And I'm gonna start by treating you like a queen. My queen." He planted a kiss on your knuckles.

You cupped his cheek, narrowing your eyes at him. "You're lucky I love you," you murmured, leaning into him.

"Oh, I know." He chuckled.

You giggled, capturing his lips, and kissed him sweetly. He deepened the kiss, slowly getting passionate. His tongue roamed inside your mouth, you tried to fight for dominance, but surrender to him eventually.

His hands moved up and down your body, then settled on your boyshorts clad bum. He caressed it with his long fingers and squeezed it tightly, before he slapped it, the smacking noise resounded in your room, startling you a bit. You couldn't help but moan, you feel pleasure alighting in the pit of your stomach. Your hand palmed his chest, bunching up his shirt tightly. You were getting carried away, and he as well. You pulled away gently, catching your breath.

"I just wanna cuddle and sleep tonight," You murmured, running the pads of your thumb across his cheek.

"Is that why you didn't wear pyjamas, Miss Allen?" He teased and squeezed your bum once more.

"What? They're comfy," you grinned.

"Right," he chuckled. "Okay." He gave you a last peck on the lips, before turning off your lamp.

You both lay down, he wrapped his arms around, protectively. Your tense and tired body relaxed, as you snuggled up against him. Like a small child, you felt in his arms; a sense of security and the feeling of home washed over you.

You looked up to him and saw that he was in some sort of daze, caught up in his own world and yet aware of his surroundings. His eyes were gazing up to your ceiling. There isn't really anything special on the ceiling, except mold. You pondered what he was thinking about. Perhaps how much of a rollercoaster ride the last 24 hours was?

"I am so glad we worked everything out today," you began. "I don't know if I can sleep tonight if we didn't talk,"

"Me too," he replied, rubbing his thumb against the skin of your shoulder, absentmindedly, didn't even glance up to you.

"I was scared, you know, I thought I was actually gonna lose you," you added in a whispered voice.

He exhaled. "So did I. I'm sorry I made you feel that way,"

"S'okay. I'm sorry I snapped at you." You couldn't take it anymore, your eyes were feeling heavy and they fluttered close.

"It's alright. I understand,"

You nuzzled your head on his chest, hearing his faint heartbeat and the rise and fall of his chest, slowly lulling you to sleep.

He kissed your hair softly, then murmured. "Good night,"

"Good night,"

You can feel yourself falling deep into sleep in a matter of seconds.

You both slept in until 11 am, and you were more than glad that you were able to get him to stay. You didn't even have to plead.

It wasn't until you were having brunch— he cooked, which was for the best. Apparently, he saw you cook eggs before— that it occurred to you that it's really happening. You're going on a date. Tonight. An actual date. You repeatedly told yourself a hundred times today, still not able to wrap your head around it.

You were nervous. Although, you played it off.

You didn't want him to know you were nervous more than you were excited in fear that he'd cancel. And you didn't want to miss out on a highly possibly great date with a great man. You literally fought for this. You can't chicken out.

It's just that your experiences with dates were, well, not so much—the men you went out with were not so much. They tend to turn out pretty boring, pointless and often self-centered. They ditch you or you ditch them. It was a restless cycle and it exhausted you. So, you just never go to one. And it's not like you're going out with some random dude. It's Harrison freaking Wells!

So as soon as he left your apartment after brunch to go home, you panicked for a certain amount of time, then called someone who could help you.

You stood in front of the mirror, staring at your reflection, while holding a dress over your frame. You tilted your body left and right, face scrunched up, obviously not pleased with the dress. It's too skimpy, too tight, too short for your liking. You don't even remember buying this dress.

You huffed loudly. "I look like a stripper." You threw the dress on top of a pile of clothes on your bed. You and Iris have gone through your entire wardrobe collection, and no perfect dress is turning up.

"How about this?" Iris walked to you with a bunch of hangers in her hand, showing you a particularly bright red dress. The last thing you want was Wells to look like he's your sugar daddy.

You shook your head. "Too bold." She threw the dress. Underneath the red dress was a long, ruffled sleeves dress, which you knew you only bought from a thrift shop, because it was so cheap. The color faded, at some point you were convinced that it was from the 1940s, although it's still pretty decent

"Yeah, if I want to look like Grandma Esther," you snickered.

She sighed exasperated as yet another piece of clothing was added to the pile. Iris held out what seemed to be the final dress she had. She raised an eyebrow, eyes were basically pleading you to choose it. You can't blame her. You are one picky girl.

It was beautiful. Your eyes lit up at the sight of itl; beige, knee-length and made of silk— with frills. Exaggerated as this may sound, but as if on cue, the angels sang with their angelic voices the moment you laid eyes on it.

"Perfect," you mumbled.

"Oh thank God," Iris groaned. She picked up a pair of heels by the edge of the bed. "I picked out these shoes for you; they'll match with that," she added, handing it both to you.

You dashed off to the bathroom to put on your outfit. As soon as you came out, you checked yourself out in the mirror. You were right; it suited you so well. You still feel sexy wearing it, but it wasn't screaming at your face. You still retain a respectable, elegant demeanor.

From the side of your mirror, you saw Iris standing behind you, arms folded, watching you fondly.

"What?" You broke her out of her reverie.

She smiled softly. "Nothing. You look amazing,"

"Anything else?" You raised your eyebrows, looking at her through the mirror, knowing there's more to it than she says.

She shrugged, shaking her head. "I just can't believe it— you're dating Harrison Wells," she sounded as shocked as she was yesterday.

If you were being honest, you can't quite believe it as well.

"Yup. Much to Joe's dismay," you chuckled, although you couldn't help to frown. Iris quickly saw it.

She walked to you, wrapped her arms around you from behind and rested her chin on your shoulder.

"Ignore him. He'll get it over it,"

He will, you are certain of it. But it doesn't mean it wouldn't be nice if he was fully supporting it. He didn't say anything to discourage it, he probably isn't going to say anything about it ever, but you know he's not a fan of it.

"Yeah. Hopefully soon," you murmured.

"Although, it is Harrison Wells," she started. You rolled your eyes and groaned internally. "I'm not even done— I just mean, it's something that's going to take time for people to warm up about this. He blew up a hole in the city and he's much older than you,"

"I know that, Iris," you exhaled audibly. You didn't need a reminder of that. You tell yourself that everyday for the last 6 months.

"I know you know that. My point is that this relationship is gonna go through a lot of tribulations, and I just want you to prepare yourself for it. I just don't want you to get hurt, okay?" She sounded so motherly, locking eyes with you.

You frowned, but nodded. You understand her point, you really do. Joe, Barry and the rest of the team, you know they genuinely care for you. But this is your relationship, and you know when it comes to love, it has it's own challenges and pain and it's something you have to deal with.

Abruptly, you heard multiple knocks all the way from the living room.

"He's here," you whispered.

You both quickly shuffled, you grabbed your purse, making sure you got everything you needed inside. Iris fixed your hair, tucking in some strand that stuck out.

Then, there's your pile of clothes on your bed that's not gonna clean itself. You panicked for a second there. Wells was outside, and you're pretty sure you're both gonna crash here after.

"Go! I got this!" Iris ordered you. You hesitated, because you know she's not going to do it. But Wells knocked some more. Much to your surprise, Iris already started hanging the dresses. So you leave it all to fate— and Iris—, and head for the door.

You took a deep breath, taking it all in. This is it. This is really it.

You opened the door, putting on a shaky smile. "Hey," you mumbled.

He cleaned up well. You don't know what it is with a suit minus the tie, but you absolutely love it on your man.

His eyes raked you up and down, mesmerized by you, jaws dropped. He looked at you with those blue orbs, glinting in the way that is so not good. He just never saw get dressed up before. All the time you just wore your normal, often coffee-stained clothes.

"You look absolutely ravishing." The way those words rolled off his tongue made you weak to your knees and you flushed slightly.

"Thanks. You're not so bad yourself," you said shyly.

He helped out his hand to you, lifting an eyebrow. "Let's go?"

You nodded, intertwining your fingers with his.

You closed your door, as you stepped out of your apartment. And as you walked down the hallway, your heart was thundering like crazy, so nervous and excited.

God, you hope this date turns out well.

***

How do you all think the date will turn out? Anyway, I'd appreciate it if you share this and give it some love. Thanks!

Part VII

[rpbetter]

hello! so... i'm mutuals with this person who writes the same muse as i do. they don't roleplay with my version, because i haven't told them about my multimuse, so i don't think they even realize we write the same muse in the first place. lately, i've noticed them calling their muse "my son", and saying things like "i own him now, everyone else go home", and it hurts my feelings. but i don't know how to bring this up without sounding bitter, possessive, or competitive. can you help me?

Oh, no...

First, let me point out the irony of you being concerned about coming off as bitter, possessive, or competitive while they're saying that kind of thing as a RPer.

Because those are all, unfortunately, normalized things to say from fandom, a lot of people who write fic, do art, write a lot of meta, or just really vibe with a character say these things regularly. It can be funny there, but ultimately, it does actually express those things. It is a statement made humorously to convey bitterness about the way a character has been treated in canon, possessiveness because you're so annoyed with canon and/or fandom's treatment of a character that's important to you, and even competitiveness - your take on this character, even feelings about them or similarities to them, is better than the shit that annoys so terribly.

The difference in venue is extremely important, though. All of those things can be pretty damn valid in non-RP fandom, even when they annoy the hell out of us coming from fans we feel are the ones mucking up the character. It's ultimately that it's valid because it's a way of expressing ourselves, and our frustrations, without being nasty to the creators.

But in RP, you're talking about other RPers when you say this, too. Not just canon content creators, not just fans out in fandom who might express the same things. No, other people who are also engaged in portraying this character as their muse. That makes it hostile, no matter how much joking is wrapped around it. Especially with the prevalence of RPers being intolerant of "duplicates."

Secondly, I'd like to assure you that you're not being any of those things! Furthermore, that it's incredibly valid to feel hurt by this. If it was a random RPer you ran across, it might be a non-issue or an eye roll, but when it comes from someone you interact with, it's hurtful. In a way, especially when they do not know you write that muse. If they knew, would they simply feel this way without expressing it? Would they continue to express it? Is their point the usual, normalized behavior and reasons for it, or do they actually have a case of "duplicate anxiety?"

(Which, for the record, I hate both the word "duplicates" and the phrase "duplicate anxiety." No one's muse is a duplicate, they're the same canon character with different portrayals. They're variations on a common theme, not identical sets. I think where actual anxiety over portrayals of the same canon character exists, this sort of thinking helps that along. But my experience with "duplicate anxiety" is hostility, and not just anxiety-born hostility as a defense either. In most cases I've seen and directly experienced with my own canon muses any of the following would be better descriptors: "duplicate jealousy," "duplicate intolerance," "duplicate hatred." However, they're familiar terms, so that's what I used.)

But yes, unfortunately, it is likely to come off as such, particularly as this person does seem pretty possessive of the muse. And I'm not saying that nastily, we're all kind of possessive, in some way or another, most of us have had negative things with our muses' canon or fanon. It's just when you're being nastily possessive and defensive toward other RPers that this is an issue. If they're inclined to be defensive like that, it's very possible that anything you say is going to come off badly.

All you can do is try your best and remember that it isn't actually about you as a person or your portrayal. It's about them. It doesn't say anything real about you. If it happens, please, don't let it make you feel bad about yourself!

Are you writing-mutuals or just mutuals?

If you write together, this is almost certainly going to be easier. There's an established connection with you that is positive. If you are mutuals who do not write together, it might be a little more difficult. I know that I feel positively about my non-writing mutuals, I enjoy them so much on my dash and in OOC conversations, but for some people, there is a sort of distance that exists there.

I think in either case, bringing it up is the most difficult part. I mean that as in...sending a message in general. If you're writing partners, you've already spoken, maybe you even speak fairly regularly, and it's not going to feel fully out of nowhere to come to them with a concern.

If that is the case, try something like:

Hey! I hope this doesn't stress you or anything, and you don't need to rush to get back to me, I just want to talk to you about it whenever you have time. I know you're not meaning it hatefully, but when you say things about owning -muse name- it's kind of hurtful to me because I write him as well on another blog. It's maybe silly, but I think you'll understand because you do love -muse name- so much too!

If you've seen them post specific problems they have with the way the muse was done in canon or addressed by fandom that you agree with, it could be a great idea to add that. You want to show that you understand where they're coming from and do care about the muse, too. Think of it like bonding. It's hard to be irrationally angry with people when we're forced to see the ways that we're similar.

I can feel the same way. Every time I see them being -referred to in a negative way, made wildly OOC in these ways, etc. just be specific- it goes all over me! I'm like, no, no, no, I've kidnapped him, he's mine now! It's just that as someone writing a portrayal of the same muse, it can feel aimed at me.

Either way, revisit the issue and how you feel.

Like I said, I'm sure you're not meaning it like that and you were unaware that I write him too, but I know that I wouldn't want to make someone feel hurt expressing it that way, so, I wanted to talk to you about it. It can make me feel like, if you knew I wrote him as well, you might not want to write with me anymore or would feel negatively about my portrayal. I really enjoy your portrayal and writing with you, obviously, so, it's more hurtful than just some rando out in fandom saying that kind of thing. I hope you understand!

If you don't write together:

Honestly, about the same thing without the familiarity.

Either way, what you're going for here is understanding. You want them to understand that you don't mean this hatefully, you're not trying to tell them what to do or anything, but these things are hurtful to you. Getting them to understand why it is hurtful to you without seeming accusatory.

And some really careful phrasing can go a long way. Instead of "you make me feel" make it an impersonal "this/it makes me feel" or even an "I feel." They're not directly being hateful to you by intent, they're just kind of oblivious to how saying things this way could be hurtful to someone else. So, you want to make them aware while not feeling attacked over it.

Do not give them ideas of you being possessive etc. by stating any such words! I know the inclination can be to attempt covering bases by saying things like, "I don't mean this possessively" or "I'm not trying to come off as" or "sorry if this sounds like x, I don't mean it that way or feel like that!" But those inclinations imply the opposite, even if unconsciously so. Don't put the words there to bring up that association.

Keep the tone honest but kind. Let them know how you feel without putting that emotion into what you're saying. Tell them that it is hurtful, you might feel judged or suddenly disliked, without coming off as defensive, angry, or incredibly sad. It's probably better if you stay away from being too descriptive about what "hurt" means to you for this reason, or anything you've done when feeling particularly hurt, like having to avoid your dash on this blog. These things can trigger reactions of defense or guilt.

Things you're not saying are pretty important here. Don't try to give suggestions as to how to resolve it, for example. While that is often a great idea when we discuss problems with each other, in this case, it's going to sound controlling. Don't offer suggestions as to what they could say instead, or even state that they need to stop saying these things. That needs to be the natural take away from you telling them that this is hurtful to you!

If it isn't the natural take away and they continue to do it after this conversation (especially if they've expressed being upset about unintentionally hurting you and a desire to not do so going forward), then, this is not a good partnership. That might be really disappointing and even more hurtful, but if they don't care when you've expressed that something they're doing has hurt you, they're someone you shouldn't keep interacting with. Again, especially if they've said they wouldn't keep doing it and that they cared! That means that they're willing to express care and interest only as far as smoothing over a problem goes while continuing the problem itself, and likely, because they don't feel it's a big deal.

And speaking of that...

If they literally do tell you that it isn't a big deal? This is a good time to terminate the relationship with them, too. Maybe it isn't, but when someone tells you that you've upset them, it's a big deal to them. Coming to someone to tell them that they've hurt you is a big deal, it's not easily done. We all have had something that we genuinely feel is not a big deal that has hurt someone, and you know what? That's fine, things can be a non-issue for us but still hurt someone else...it's how we respond to being told that matters. So, if their response is telling you this (aggressively or passive-aggressively, as in "it's not a big deal but ok if it makes you feel that way") sort of thing, you're seriously better off getting away from them now, not later.

Should that happen, or the conversation otherwise become nasty? It's absolutely alright to say, "Alright, well, I don't think we need to keep discussing this, it isn't benefiting either of us. I'm going to just unfollow, but I hope you keep having a great time in RP!" And do that. Stop the conversation, go unfollow, don't interact anymore.

Just because you brought up an issue does not mean you're obliged to be treated badly until they're done with it. Let them respond, and if it's hateful, you only owe the respect that you've been shown. Try to end it on a polite note for yourself - the way we feel about and engage with our muses is a touchy subject (reasonably), it's not ridiculous to assume that it could cause some drama addressing this, so, don't give them anything that feels like justification to proceed with that kind of thing. You'll at least know that you behaved like a respectful adult person.

I really do not envy you, Anon! This is a tricky situation! But I do applaud your maturity in wanting to talk to them about it. A lot of muns out there would just silently stew in their hurt until it became something aggressive, or would just block them. Though difficult, I think this is the right thing to do, and I wish you all the luck in the world!

Hopefully, they'll be like I would be...a bit mortified that I'd made someone feel hurt with commentary I felt was merely throw away statements.

[thelegendofclarke]

Sorry to bring up The Discourse again but how do you feel about the fact people don't acknowledge that while Sansa's traditional femininity is rewarded in-universe, it is a mark against her on a meta level? Many people decry Sansa as "weak" or "boring" or "stupid" due to her "girly-girl" status and her more traditionally feminine storyline, she is consistently in the bottom of character polls because people have been programmed to devalue or even hate "girly-girls".

Hey Anon!

You’re totally fine :) I really don’t mind discussing or even debating this topic tbh. It’s the condescension, vitriol, and being called an unfeminist asshole ect. ect. that I’m not particularly a fan of haha.

You’re getting into a few different points here and I’m going to attempt to talk about them in a semi -organized, coherent manner. So bear with me… Your first point of “while Sansa’s traditional femininity is rewarded in-universe” touches on one of the (floppity trillion) things that kind of ~grinds my gears~ about how this topic is discussed. 

Its a pretty significant misstatement and misconception to say that any woman is “rewarded in a patriarchy,” especially an incredibly oppressive patriarchy like Westeros. No woman is ever rewarded in a patriarchy. Not being punished is not a reward. Not being mocked or ostracized is not a reward. Being praised for conforming to an arbitrary set of standards aggressively imposed on you by society is not a reward. Not being beaten or otherwise abused is not a reward. Having basic human rights and freedoms is not a reward. Being treated with basic human decency and respect is not a reward. And tbh, thinking that these things are “rewards” is one of the things that allows a patriarchy to function in this manner in the first place. 

It’s one of the most effective tactics of oppressive societies: they shrink the size of your world and the scope of your permissible behavior, punishing you when you cross an invisible line that is perpetually moving, until you are basically stuck on a tiny patch of grass like a dog unwilling to cross an electric fence. So then, when they finally open the gd gate to take you for a walk, you’re supposed to feel grateful and say “thankyouthankyouthankyou” and pee yourself with excitement. And you do; even when you’re owned, even when you’re property. even when you’re still firmly on their leash, they can somehow make it feel like freedom. 

Margaret Atwood has some very good (and creepily accurate/applicable) quotes in The Handmaid’s Tale that really get to the heart of the problem with the idea that freedom in the most basic sense is a “reward”…

“A rat in a maze is free to go anywhere, as long as it stays inside the maze.”

“There is more than one kind of freedom,“… “Freedom to and freedom from. In the days of anarchy, it was freedom to. Now you are being given freedom from. Don’t underrate it.”

And also about the fallacy that women in an oppressive patriarchy are granted any kind of real agency:

“I compose myself. My self is a thing I must now compose, as one composes a speech. What I must present is a made thing, not something born.”

“I have failed once again to fulfill the expectations of others, which have become my own.”

“That was one of the things they do. They force you to kill, within yourself.”

A system of perpetually limited freedom, agency, and self determination doesn’t allow for rewards really, at least not for the oppressed demographics. Everyone is a victim of whatever group is in power (i.e. men in a patriarchy). So then you have to start getting into the area of debating who is a “better victim” or “more of a victim,” and those conversations are alwaysss yikesy. I don’t think there is any fair or objective or comfortable way to answer a question like “whose pain, abuse, and/or oppression is most important?” People like to point out that there is always the option not to engage in patriarchal standards, but the consequences for this can be severe. So then that begs the question, is there really an option? And are we willing to blame people for choosing what ever the “not abuse” option is. Its the concept that’s at the heart of coercion: taking away someone’s choices until they come to believe that the only choice left that isn’t ~terrible~ is the thing that they want.

I can ~kind of~ see where people are coming from when they make the argument that Sansa and women like her are “rewarded in universe.” Sansa does receive a lot of praise in the narrative from other characters for being good at traditionally feminine skills. Definitely far more by a large margin than characters like Brienne and Arya, who don’t comply with prescribed gender roles. The skills Sansa has are more socially acceptable in universe of course; they are much more valuable in terms of cultural currency, and make her much more marketable in a society where women are essentially chattel to be sold or traded. But as I have kind of talked about before, comparing the treatment different types of women are subjected to in a patriarchal society and how it affects them just isn’t that cut and dry. Traditionally feminine women are supposed to be the most “rewarded” group of women, while women who do not act “how a woman should” are meant to be the most disadvantaged or disenfranchised group. But when you really examine the POV’s of women like Cersei and Sansa vs. women like Brienne and Arya, you can see if affects them mentally in very different ways.

Cersei, who outwardly seems to be the epitome of a Good Westerosi Woman in her appearance and her actions, and has the ultimate “reward” (being the Freaking Queen), seems to have the most veraciously negative mentality about her gender and her role in society.

Cersei sniffed. “I should have been born a man. I would have no need of any of you then. None of this would have been allowed to happen. How could Jaime let himself be captured by that boy? And Father, I trusted in him, fool that I am, but where is he now that he’s wanted? What is he doing?”— ACoK

“We were so much alike, I could never understand why they treated us so differently. Jaime learned to fight with sword and lance and mace, while I was taught to smile and sing and please. He was heir to Casterly Rock, while I was to be sold to some stranger like a horse, to be ridden whenever my new owner liked, beaten whenever he liked, and cast aside in time for a younger filly. Jaime’s lot was to be glory and power, while mine was birth and moonblood.”— ACoK

“If the gods had given her the strength they gave Jaime and that swaggering oaf Robert, she could have made her own escape. Oh, for a sword and the skill to wield it. She had a warrior’s heart, but the gods in their blind malice had given her the feeble body of a woman.”— ADwD

Cersei learned how to perpetuate and perform femininity in a socially acceptable way, despite her constant frustration and contempt for its constraints. But it has left her in a state of basically complete self loathing; she is bitter and angry and just so incredibly unhappy.

Brienne on the other hand, couldn’t look or act less like Cersei. She is one of the most “masculine” female characters in appearance and stereotypical behavior. and yes, Brienne does have insecurities from the criticisms and mockery she receives.

Lady Stark had been kind to her, but most women were just as cruel as men. She could not have said which she found most hurtful, the pretty girls with their waspish tongues and brittle laughter or the cold-eyed ladies who hid their disdain behind a mask of courtesy. — ACoK

There is not question she is judged and degraded and treated atrociously. BUT, she doesn’t seem to suffer from the same resentment, self loathing and all consuming anger that Cersei does. She wants to be a knight, but she never tries to pass as a man nor wishes she had been born male. Yes, she recognizes and resents the limitations placed on her because of her gender, but she also actually expresses respect for women as well:

“No, but you have courage. Not a battle courage perhaps but… I don’t know… a kind of woman’s courage.”— ACoK

“[L]adies die in childbed. No one sings songs about them.” — ACoK

So that kind of shows how even The Best Women aren’t really “rewarded” in a system like Westeros’s. There is nothing rewarding about being pigeon holed and forced into a teeny tiny box. There is nothing rewarding about constantly being at the mercy of rigid expectations based on conformity and stereotypes and prescribed gender roles. And there is definitely nothing rewarding about being taught to hate yourself based on your gender.  

Which also relates to your next point about how Sansa’s brand traditional femininity can be a mark against her on a meta level; and how she, and other characters like her, get called “weak” or “boring” or “stupid” due to their “girly-girl” status… This is essentially one of the reasons why people argue that the rise of the Warrior Woman Character can, at times (NOT ALWAYS), be sort of a double edged sword. 

On the one hand it has been amazing for feminism. Its breaking the mold, its fighting the idea that there is only one way to be a Good Woman, its showing that there is no wrong way to be a woman. These types of characters show that sword fighting can be just as feminine as sewing. In fact these characters represent the idea that there really is no such thing as the distinction between “feminine activities” and “masculine activities.” Things do not have a gender. Activities do not have a gender. They can’t actually be male or female. They are actually neutral; their existence or practice doesn’t exclusively depend solely on one gender or the other. There is no difference between sword fighting and dancing; they are both just physical activities people can take part in. There is no difference between pants and dresses; they are both just clothes, pieces of material we use to cover our bodies. The only reason we think of them as masculine or feminine, the only reason we consider them to be gender coded AT ALL, is because we are taught to do so. And the Warrior Woman character defies these stereotypes.

But these types of characters can also be ~warped~ to help perpetuate patriarchal norms just as much as classically feminine characters can, because the fucking patriarchy ruins everything. (Seriously though, it is the reason we can’t have nice things.) That’s one of the hallmarks of a patriarchy, it appropriates something that is supposed to be empowering for disenfranchised or exploited groups and ~twists it~ to their own benefit. The Handmaids Tale has another great example of this with The Republic of Gilead’s perversion of the bible verse Matthew 5:5, “blessed are the meek.” Instead of citing the entire phrase, as the narrator Offred points out, “they never mention the part where ‘the meek will inherit the earth’.” The quotation of scripture is manipulated to support the idea that the Handmaid’s should be submissive,  that it is their duty to acquiesce to their subservient role in society.

So as a result, instead of defying gender coded distinctions, these types of females can be applauded as the “superior” type of female character because they are skilled in areas that are “traditionally masculine.” A woman who is good at sword fighting is “more badass” than a woman who is good at sewing, because being able to sword fight is a more valuable skill than being able to sew. And of course it is, its a traditionally masculine skill; the Bro-er the Better. Then all the big time, toxic patriarchal shit rears its ugly asshole head with the concept that anything feminine or “girly” is bad and that anything masculine or “manly” is good. That femininity is weakness and stupidity while masculinity is superiority and strength; that masculinity is preferential while femininity is, at best, acceptable.

This type of thinking makes the Warrior Woman Character, who is good at combat and sword fighting, stronger and more admirable, and a superior role role model, and just all around Better than the Girly Girl Character who likes sewing and dancing. It takes beautiful, strong, dynamic female characters of both varieties and polarizes them in a really annoying and unnecessary way. It makes a plot/arc/storyline where a female character learns to fight or some other traditionally masculine skill an “upgrade” and a hero story, while a plot/arc/storyline where a female character does something more traditionally feminine is a “down grade” or a ~chick flick~ and not to be taken as seriously. It makes female characters who have many different skills (both traditionally feminine and masculine) into Mary Sue’s and says “she must be bad at something! she must have glaring flaws and obvious weaknesses!” or else she “isn’t believable, isn’t relatable, and isn’t at all lovable.” 

It dictates that characters like Sansa Stark must be weak and stupid, because they are skilled at sewing and not sword fighting and they have to rely on intuition and their intellect instead of fighting and their physicality to protect themselves.

And I mean, honestly… It 👏  Is 👏  So 👏  STUPID! 👏