#aemond is a psycho for reals also

[hauntingblue]

Syrax roaring when rhaenyra finds her son's remains omg......

[nrilliree]

“A son for a son!” oh just you wait, you inbred audacious psycho.

I love Jace, but I can't wait to see Rhaenyra suffer. I hate her so much, she has no brain, no attitude to rule.... what a idiotic character

Team Rotten Cucumber Color thinks they're incredibly funny when they laugh at Jace's death. You know, the Jace who got on his dragon and went into real combat to save his little brothers, and died along with his dragon. But they believe that Daeron, who died crushed by the burning tent, and Aemond, who in terror tried to unfasten himself from the saddle before being pierced by a sword like a shish kebab, died the death of heroes… Those who slaughtered entire cities and burned the realm. To whom Aegon wanted to build great golden monuments while the realm was in war and famine. Because, you know, they have "brains and the ability to rule." Obviously…

And they think the death of these "inbred bastards" is funny, because you know incest, haha ​​hihi, but… I guess they don't know that the children of the niece and uncle are much less "inbred" than the children of siblings 🤔 (Before someone says "Rhaenyra wanted it, Aegon didn't!" let me remind you that Aegon was the heir of absolutely nothing, so he didn't need heirs and didn't have to consummate the marriage… like Daemon and Rhea for example.) Does that mean that since "the children are inbred" and the parents are "audacious psychos" that means we can make fun of their deaths? In that case, the deaths of Jaehaerys, Jaehaery and Maelor should also be hilarious jokes, because they are also "inbred freaks of nature".

Have you seen TB's posts about "You want revenge, not dignity? Oh just you wait, you rapist audacious psycho. You'll get revenge! (Here's a picture of Jaehaera thrown out of the window/Maelor torn apart by the crowd)". Strangely enough, I don't 🤔

[mariuspompom]

Rhaenicent truly gets the golden prize of queerbaiting. If you want to turn two women who hate each other into an unfulfilled love story, fine. Do it goddammit. But are you actually gonna do it? Do you have the guts to back this up in the narrative? If not, it comes across as a half-ass attempt at novelty. Where is Alicent's love for Rhaenyra, the very core of the show (!), in that episode? What, because she prayed for her son? But she doesn't need to be in love with her to pray for her son. Her two-faced pious book counterpart could have easily done exactly the same thing without being in love with Rhaenyra (book!Alicent was actually against Lucery's murder) and imagine how cool it would have been to have book!Alicent, this cold, calculating bitch, still keeping up with her cognitive dissonance and praying for Rhaenyra's dead child like a real psycho, as if she doesn't want that woman and her bastards dead since she was a little girl. You can't deny, this would have been hotter. But oh well. Also a fine specimen of tell not show, "Alicent holds love for Rhaenyra" says Aemond, right, but where? That's why she's fucking Criston every day while not showing one single emotion? Because she's heartbroken for her one true love losing her child?

Rhaenicent may have seemed hot to the writers, but the execution failed. A shift as major as this needs a very solid basis and narrative importance. It needs to hold actual weight in the plot. You can't have characters casually mentioning it whenever it suits the script and then forgetting it 5 seconds later. You can't have Alicent being terrified about the safety of her kids and herself and wanting to take revenge against that family for what she's been through and then "oh by the way she's in love with Rhaenyra bye" that is NOT how this works. The problem is, of course, that with so much going on Rhaenicent just cannot work. Because of logistics. There is literally no place for love and solidarity between those two women in this specific narrative with the stakes so high, with their families and their children involved, you can kick and scream and whine about it but the fact remains. As I've always said, the only way Rhaenicent could work is as a villain origin story for Alicent. Let Alicent hate Rhaenyra's guts out of sheer romantic jealousy, let her be blinded by rage where once there had been only love. Now that holds actual weight in the narrative. That is hot. That gives Alicent a clear purpose, a clear drive. Alicent now is just a lifeless, boneless, odorless shadow, and I say this in the most unbiased way possible. She truly is just a spectator of her life. The drama unwinds around her and she just... nothing. Now we all know people like that in real life. However, in fiction, a character needs to have a purpose. They need a drive, they need an inner logic. They need to do something, they need to strive for something. You can't introduce a character merely for representation. "It is important to show a woman dealing with lack of agency" right but "dealing with lack of agency" is not a character arc. How is she dealing with her lack of agency, what the fuck does she do with that? She's a character, not a concept.

It's a no for me, it will always be a no and it truly and irrevocably ruined this adaptation.

[snowblack-charcoalwhite]

I've said it many times and I'll say it again. I don't understand why so many people claim that Aemond is somehow Ryan's favourite or even self insert. I guess it would be obvious now that he hates him as much as the rest of the greens, but some still insist on this. Like, here is the character that actually was one of the most popular in s1 despite the fact that he barely had any screentime and is tg, yet we are halfway through s2 and look what they've done with him?? 5 minutes of screentime, half of it the unnecessary brothel scenes to show him naked and to destroy his relationship with Aegon for good. Zero interactions with Alicent, Helaena, Otto...No reaction to Jaehaerys (but yes to luke).. And he's somehow Ryan's pet? Yeah, no. I think that Ryan is staunchly tb who loves Rhaenyra and Daemon (and Rhaenys) and just watch him give Daemyra an intense and emotional reunion to confirm Daemon's loyalty to her. All these harrenhal scenes are just devices to make the moment more impact full and to subvert expectations™, I'm 100% certain this will be the case. And what the greens got? Mutual hatred, a nonexistent cause, Aegon who still bullies and humiliates his brother and only sees him as a weapon, Aemond who tries to get rid of his brother in the middle of the battle and is completely detached from his family, Helaena who barely exists and don't even get me started on Alicent and Criston. Therefore, if Ryan, Hess or anyone in the writing team "loves" the greens, they sure have a strange way of showing that lmao.

Anyway, I would love to hear your opinion on this.

Hello!

To be honest, at this point I have trouble telling which HotD characters are actually loved by the writers. I am really tempted to say that none of them are because no writer treats a character they love like Condal&Co treat the majority of HotD folks, even TB ones, the supposed faves. Rhaenyra (post S1E5), the protagonist - meek and boring. Rhaenys a.k.a "the voice of wisdom" - a hypocritical woman (who is also basically a mass murderer). Daemon - I don't even know what to say about him, his characterization has been all over the place.

However, IMO we need to take into account two things: 1) HotD writers apparently have received a commission to create a show with a clear as day feminist agenda to regain the audience's favor lost after Daenerys business in S8 of GoT; 2) the most important - they are fucking incompetent, and so they could ruin the characters they "love" just as effortlessly as they do with those they "hate" (sometimes they even fail with the latter - because they are kind of supposed to ruin them but, once again, are incompetent).

So, I really don't know whether Condal and the rest of HotD team are ruining Aemond on purpose - or are just trying to legit create a compelling arc for him by presenting him as a bullied kid with a fuckton of issues who one day just snapped and fully went into a psycho killer mode. Both options are possible - and actually both of them might be true because (and here goes yet another HotD problem) it really feels like the writers who work on the show have trouble communicating and coordinating their ideas. One pushes for one thing, another - for another, and as a result we have characters who act like they get a personality/brain transplant every episode (Daemon and Alicent in S1 are the prime examples of that).

As for the "Aemond is Condal's self insert" -everything is possible. To comment on that properly I would have to get into speculations about the latter's personality and mental state, and I'd rather not do this. As much as I despise him, he is still a real person; and I am neither a psychologist nor a psychiatrist (neither do I know him personally), so it's not my place to do that.

Thank you for the ask!

[princessbellecerise]

HOTD SEASON TWO THOUGHTS

SPOILERS

JACE AND CREGAN JACE AND CREGAN OMG IM SO GLAD THEY MADE CREGAN YOUNG AND NOT HAVE HIM ACT LIKE HES OLD ASF. He is supposed to be like 20 and I was worried they were gonna try and make him like Ned but NOPE. I liked how they tried to kind of tie in the GOT Stark’s with him but I wish we saw a bit more

WHERE IS VERMAX?? I REALLY WANTED TO SEE HIM THIS SEASON BY BOY GETS NO SCREEN TIME

Lucerys Velaryon my sweet baby boy, I will always remember you. When Corlys said he had that dagger commissioned for Luke I SOBBED. He loved those kids sm don’t you EVER try to tell me he didn’t want Luke to have Driftmark

Ugh, Alyn. Iykyk I was waiting his better half (his brother) to show up

Aemond Targaryen when I FUCKING catch you I swear to GOD. Rhaenyra searching for Luke had me in tears. The way she JUMPED off of Syrax to see if it was true oh god

Speaking of which, her scene with Jace destroyed me. The way he tried to be a good son and heir and tell her about his accomplishments but broke down. Oh my god and the way he reached for her I can’t

The greens had too much fucking screen time. All I heard was them yapping about a war THEY started. Also alicent trying to control her sons is laughable. You raised them to be misogynists and now you’re shocked they don’t value women? Hmmm I wonder why

Speaking of Miss Dowager Hypocrite herself…what happened to honor and decency hmmm? No where to be found I guess. Also Crsipy Cole, for a man that’s been sworn of celibacy you sure do get down alot

Larys Strong is the biggest instigator that’s ever lived and I think we’re about to see him changing loyalties like he does in the books. Hmmm

Luke’s funeral. My god. Jace lifting up Joffery to throw in Luke’s seahorse. Rhaena absolutely sobbing bc that was her betrothed :( . Somebody fucking sedate me

Rhaenys…my girl…what have they DONE to you? They made it seem like she didn’t give a single fuck about Luke’s death. CORLYS GRIEVED MORE THAN SHE DID ARE YOU KIDDING ME. This is not the Rhaenys I know. The Rhaenys that wanted to go to King’s Landing and kill the Greens so bad that DAEMON had to reel her in. Smh STOP WITH THE WISHY-WASHY SHIT. MY GIRL WAS FULLY TEAM BLACK

The writers are cowards and you can tell. B&C was Daemons idea. It was HIS idea for HIS son. Although, much as Team Green talks shit about Daemon, I’m also kinda glad they changed B&C to him ordering Aemond’s death.

And speaking of…sigh. So sigh. B&C was so…underwhelming. If they were trying to spark sympathy for Team Green then they did a horrible job at it because WHAT WAS THAT?? Helaena not even putting up a fight? Just straight selling Jahaerys out like damn girl it’s like that?? AND WHERE was Maelor?

Aegon and Aemond of course can go fuck themselves as usual. Them trying to make it seem like Aegon would’ve been a good king is laughable like be SO fucking for real

Otto Hightower your days are numbered. Just you wait, you’ve given your two psycho grandchildren a taste a power and I’m gonna laugh when it backfires

Overall, I did feel a little bit bad for Helaena but it’s still team black. I hated how they cut out the feast Aegon threw to celebrate Luke’s death. It adds a whole new layer as to why the Greens will never be in the right, if it wasn’t obvious already. ALSO, I cannot wait to see those fuckers realize that most of the realm wants Rhaenyra and not *what did Daemon say?* oh yeah, a drunken usurper cunt of a king

Jason (or was it Tyland) being made a fool had me dying. Like yeah your dumbass wanted him on the throne now what? Now you’re a damn pony. Giddy up fool

Them trying to make it seem like Aegon cares about his son when they haven’t even mentioned he has a son until the plot calls for it…sigh. I love TGC but you can definitely tell it’s HIM smiling and acting all cute towards Jahaerys, not Aegon if that makes sense.

Lastly, Lady Misery has always been Team Black and I wish they’d stop making it seem like nobody was on Rhaenyra’s side. Majority of the fucking realm fought for her it and they’re making it seem like she’s so alone. I also feel like they’re trying to use her grief as a reason she shouldn’t rule while trying to make Aegon seem “good” and I don’t like that

Let’s see what next week’s episode brings but hopefully the rest of the season is more…exciting

[zeciex]

I find it funny how some people think “Rhaenyra wasn’t a good mom” when she raised both Jace and Luke very well: good boys who are nice, caring, patient well-mannered, smart and honorable (Jace would’ve made a fantastic king) unlike Alicent whose 2 brats Aegon and Aemond (I like them both they’re great villains but Aegon is still a drunken rapist and Aemond especially in the books is a psycho) the TG boys are spoiled brats and wackos who are trueborns but act like complete bastards to everyone.

Unfortunately for Daenera she already likely knows her husband Aemond is an ass, but in the future she’ll remember how good her mother was with her and her brothers and make sure her future kids don’t grow up anything like how Aegon and Aemond did, and finally break the cycle.

I think Rhaenyra was a great mom and a very loving and engaged mom that guided more than actively forced her children down a path. Both Luke and Jace are good boys; nice, caring, patient, well-mannered and honorable. But they also had their flaws; especially Jace that exhibited bullying tendencies--went along with Aegon's plans, beat and yelled at Luke when he wasn't as good as him with the sword, actively participated in the shit-slinging during the final supper--but that, I believe, can be boiled down to his own insecurity with being a bastard and being the 'older brother' that feels as though he has to be perfect for everyone so that they might overlook the color of his hair. They grew up with the pressure of being a bastard and it effected them differently--Jace wanting to be perfect and digging in his heels by pretending that they're not, in fact, bastards, Luke being anxious and fretful, also wanting to be perfect, and Daenera self sacrificing and actively disregarding it. None of them are perfect, they're all flawed and we'll for sure explore their relationships and dynamics through S2 (minus Luke lol)

But where Rhaenyra raised her children with love and understanding, Alicent raised her children with fear, judgment and privilege. She continues the generational trauma by instilling the same fear in her children as her father did her--Rhaenyra will kill them all and it will be your fault if you don't do anything--as well as actively abusing them; With Aegon, she was still but a child when she had him and I fully understand her struggle with motherhood as well as the marital rape she suffered--she likely transferred her feelings of anger and regret to Aegon and struggled to bond with him, even if she did love him. She had no real care for Aegon or Helaena when they were children, they were likely passed off onto the nursemaids, which would have strained the bond further. We also saw that Viserys let Aegon drink wine at 2 years old--alcohol at that age is especially damaging. And it likely had an effect.

Alicent obviously tried to mold Aegon into what she though he should be like, which in turn made Aegon feel as though he could never measure up to the expectations placed upon him and so, he gave up--he became the disappointment, both as a way to protect himself and as a 'fuck you' to Alicent. He loves his mother and he wants to be everything she expects of him, he wants her to love him wholly and unconditionally, but she cant, and he resents her for it. There's a lot of punishment in his character--both self-punishment and punishment towards his mother (and brother), and there's certainly a lot of envy and jealousy in him as well. He acts out--the pranks--and worse yet, he is a r*apist. And personally, I think that him r*aping the serving girls is as much an effort to exert control over his own life as much as others--he wants the control, he wants to hold the power, he wants to feel big, he wants make them as miserable as him--and it's also very much about privilege; he's a prince, he thinks 'they should be glad to have caught my eye, I blessed them.' And another layer of this is the fact that his mother has covered up for him, that it's something that is hidden and shrugged off--so it's not so bad, is it?

Alicent allows it--the only reason she's really and truly angry with him in ep 8 is because Rhaenyra was coming! The enemy, the woman she doesn't want to judge her. She was angry at Aegon for the r*ape, yes, but mostly for the optics of it. And it's because she has shrouded herself in this moral superiority and piety. It's only when Aegon's actions threaten their image that she lashes out at him--and STILL she puts the crown on his head.

With Aemond it is different; she was older when she had him, and though I doubt she really sat down with him as a child, he proved to be the more 'reliable' child. He quickly became parentified, he took Viserys's place as her emotional support when Viserys wouldn't do it. This parentified position was solidified when he lost his eye--something Alicent sees both as her own failing AND Viserys's failing, as well as the implication that she can rely on no one to fight for her and how 'entitled' TB is. Aemond assures his mother that he's fine after her outburst, supporting her emotionally when he's the one hurt. And we see how she relies on him in ep 9, even when it goes against his own desires.

Both Aegon and Aemond are entitled little shits, they're both a product of their mother and the circumstances surrounding them--they are the fruit of the poisoned tree. I don't condone their actions, but they make sense and I find them really interesting.

Daenera knows that Aemond is an asshole--she's one too. I've specifically made a point of making her flawed. While she is compassionate and kind, she can be viciously cruel too--and she's calculating, entitled, privileged, and so much else. She, as well, is a product of her surroundings; how she grew up, who she was around, who might have influenced her, events that has happened. She's not without faults and fallacies. And she is quite a bitch when she wants to be.

And, she's a woman trapped in this period of time. She will try to break the cycle, but the patriarchy may strong-arm her into submission at times. If she needs marry her child off to secure power/or a future, she will have to do it. But she will be a loving mother and she'll certainly be better than Alicent. And perhaps, Aemond too, will be better for it.

[l4dy4edd0fc01dh4rt]

Fantasy isn’t reality

Tom Glynn-Carney got threats by psychos online just because he plays Aegon II on HotD. Do some of you not know what acting is anymore? What is wrong with you? It’s a tv show. Westeros isn’t real, dragons don’t exist, there are no “great and noble houses,” magic isn’t real and none of the characters exist.

Some of you act like you’re 5 years old and need to be told “it’s fantasy” at your grown ages? The content warnings are there before the episodes starts-you know the ones that have mature subject matter on them that you can read for a couple of seconds before the show starts? Yes we all know there’s swearing, sex and violence in these shows? Why? Because we’re all adults, it’s a show for adults and these themes exist in real life except we do know for certain that the world and characters we’re watching in this ARE NOT REAL.

Some of my favorite villains in the GoT universe are Aegon II, his brother Aemond, Daemon Targaryen, Otto Hightower, Ramsay Bolton, Tywin Lannister and his daughter Cersei, his grandson Joffrey and many others, I love villainous characters because they’re what pushes the story in different directions. I love to see their plans, their ideas, their bad attitudes and personalities. Not all of them are cool and calculating, but they can also be vengeful, devious, violent and manipulative.

But does that mean in real life, that I would hurt people or commit war crimes? Hell no. Because I know that it’s just tv shows and books and that the people who are playing those roles are just actors playing roles. I know that Tom Glynn, Rhys Ifans, Jack Gleeson and Lena Headey are great actors who are doing a fantastic job at portraying GRRM’s characters. The people who do cosplays of these characters love the outfits and look cool doing it at cons. It doesn’t make them criminals or lunatics for liking a character who is “bad” just like how if you like good characters like Rhaenyra, Ned, Jon, etc doesn’t mean “good person.”

The idea that “you can’t like this character because they’re evil” is something that little kids would do and we don’t need those types of attitudes in an adult fandom. That’d be like going to a con and seeing a Cersei cosplayer and telling her “you know she’s a psychotic and incestuous, shouldn’t dress like that and if you do you’re a bad person.” Or even seeing Aemond and Aegon cosplayers and fans online and telling them “you guys must like killing people” or “you like committing crimes” and threatening to hurt them.

Does anyone see how weird and offputting that is? Can you imagine someone judging and threatening you just because you’re wearing a costume? Or if your pfp is of a character to one of your favorite movies or shows?

Even on the whole fandoms of Team Black and Team Green, it’s perfectly alright to love Daemon, Aemond and Aegon. They’re great and Matt, Ewan and Tom are amazing at playing them and you can tell they love their work. People are allowed to make fanart, cosplay and make fan edits because it’s fun for fandoms and we all just want to see our favorite shows.

Fantasy isn’t reality and the actors are just doing their jobs. If you have issues with a show, don’t watch it. You’re an adult and you can change the channel at anytime. No one’s forcing you to watch a show you don’t like. Don’t make your problems with a show everyone else’s and send threats to actors because you can’t handle it.

[numiolaes]

KINSLAYING : A Treatise or Whatever

" "Tyrion said that?" Jaime had not wanted to believe it. Kinslaying was worse than kingslaying, in the eyes of gods and men. He knew the boy was mine. " -- JAIME VII, ASOS

There are several different faiths in Westeros and many different cultural sensibilities however, KINSLAYING is one of the few consistent taboos across all of them. While we can all comprehend why murder in general would be frowned upon or seen as a major taboo. But similar to how the idea of the sanctity of guest rights can be something that's difficult for some modern viewers/readers to grasp the severity and visceral horror of, kinslaying can be hard to get why it's seen as so heinous that guys like Victarion, an ironborn psycho extraordinaire, won't kill his brother Euron, possibly THE WORST man alive, because of the kinslaying stigma.

One notable custom that the Northmen hold dearer than any other is guest right, the tradition of hospitality by which a man may offer no harm to a guest beneath his roof, nor a guest to his host. The Andals held to something like it as well, but it looms less large in southron minds. [...] Only kinslaying is deemed as sinful as the violations of these laws of hospitality. -- the North, AWOIAF

So like, let's talk about that a bit or whatever. I'm gonna use some dramatic, emotional and inflammatory language and wording in parts of this because I'm trying to incite the kind of emotions in y'all that kinslaying invokes in the Westerosi so like, ya get it.

For starters, this issue with kinslaying seems to be a primarily or exclusively with Westeros and not really an issue with the Essosi. Which we can see in Viserys 2's death and how it's later discussed. Neither Khal Drogo nor Daenerys who are both raised in pretty much exclusively Essosi cultures bat an eye at the prospect of his death or carrying it out. Daenerys doesn't even have a moment of conflict over because of the stigma like Victarion does. The fact that she is party to a kinslaying is not really an issue here for her, neither does the Khal. However later Arianne talks about Viserys 3's death and considers Daeneyrs a possible kinslayer for it.

For the Westerosi person, kinslaying is basically worst thing you could ever do. A rapist will get more respect than a kinslayer. A kinslayer is not just a criminal they are damned by all gods and forces of nature.

"Aye," she said, "but the gods hate kinslayers, even when they kill unknowing. When Lord Stark returned from the battle and his mother saw Bael's head upon his spear, she threw herself from a tower in her grief. Her son did not long outlive her. One o' his lords peeled the skin off him and wore him for a cloak." -- JON VI, ACOK

To get a picture of the kind of visceral horror this incite with people here's the extreme wordage: for a Westerosi, kinslaying is as bad as being a pedophile for us. in fact it might be even worse, like a pedophile who's also a murderer and necrophiliac. like-- it is BAD. it's TOXIC. it's CHERNOBYL LEVELS OF NO GO ZONE. there is NO COMING BACK FROM THIS. If people know you're a kinslayer your reputation will not recover AND given that planetos is a place where magic is real you might be ACTUALLY FOR REAL CURSED.

And this is the issue with both Game of Thrones and House of the Dragon (and the main books imo but that's just me--) they just don't hammer this in enough. Likely in part because of the difference between our sensibilities and the sensibilities of the characters there's just not enough emphasis put before events like the Red Wedding or Lucerys' death to help convey why they're so shocking to people past you know, the murder. People all over Westeros are horrified by Robb's death because of the breaking of guest rights, even people who don't like him. Because of that violation. Aemond goes from mommy's little favorite to Alicent looking at him like he's a serial killer for half of S2 because of this taboo.

It's a taboo so powerful with such intense cosmic ramifications associated with it it keeps card carrying villains from killing people. When someone intentionally breaks it they're seen as the worst and most dangerous scum alive. There's degrees sure, there are with most things but it's like the difference between a premeditated or accidental murder -- it's still a murder, it's just one's more sad.

And for HOTD this a real issue that no time has really been spent hammer into our brains that kinslaying is mega evil. There's Aemond, sure, but this is a family conflict, multiple people end up killing their own kin. The whole premise of a succession war like this inherently means blood having a hand in the death of blood. Even if Rhaenyra didn't order it and Daemon didn't hold the knife they ARE kinslayers by association and by conspiracy. The Greens are claiming Aegon killed Rhaenys and Meleys, that means MILLIONS of people now think he's a kinslayer and SURE it's in BATTLE but that's not really too much of a different apparently by Westerosi Standards. Bael is killed in battle by his unknowning son and it ends with his mom dead and his ass flayed. Context is largely not important here, it's just always bad.

If they had hammered in more how awful kinslaying is considered then it does a LOT for the narrative and the characters. For Aemond, you get why he's not as keen about being the Good Son anymore -- he's Literally Satan to people now so fuck it! and it makes why people are TERRIFIED of him in the council make a LOT of sense. For Rhaenys people were RAILING against the dragon pit scene and "why didn't she just barbecue them then?!" Easy, didn't wanna have a reputation worse than Hitler's when there was even a SHRED of a chance this could get talked out. It just makes things make more sense and as SO much to drama of the show.

[bohemian-nights]

I'm a not a huge fan of Daemon, for me the only cool things about him are his sword and dragon. A few days ago I tried to read some Daemon x reader fanfics just to see how it is and you know, maybe there is something about him that isn't...messed up. But It was exactly what I thought for the most part. It was mostly just D**myra x reader oneshots or Daemon x niece! reader fics. But I wasn't at all prepared for romantic Daemon x daughter!reader stuff and....that was just beyond weird. I can't describe it. I can't fathom how anyone can write such a thing even if it's fictional. There was also a romantic Daemyra x daughter! reader fic....this fandom is getting worse every day. The fact that it was smut just made me completely lose any interest in his character.

The state of Daemon’s fics is not that great. I had to start creating my own because they by in large just weren’t inclusive🙃(even the ones that aren’t incest, and there is still a way to make incest inclusive, have a white reader in mind, but that’s the case with most fandoms).

That being said, I may rag on this man, and I do love to read other people raging on him, but I do genuinely love Daemon Targaryen(he’s the whole reason I started writing fanfiction), I have written Daemon x niece!reader fanfic, and I’m about to start writing Daemon with one(or both) of his daughters…

As a self-proclaimed Daemon stan, he’s the type of character who you either love or you hate.

He is admittedly a psycho(well his show! counterpart has been shown in not the best light and that’s what most of these fics are based on), but he’s got charisma. He’s charming. He has this dark aura about him and there is something so alluring about that darkness.

I mean think of all the other fictional bad boys that have a large fanbase or massive appeal because of their dark and brooding ways. In recent years you’ve got Draco Malfoy, Prince Zuko, Edward Cullen, The Darkling, Namor, Massimo from 365 Days, and Kylo Ren(and now Daemon and Aemond). Go even further back and you have characters like Mr. Rochester from Jane Eyre and the Beast from Beauty and the Beast.

These guys are not “good guys” by any stretch of the imagination. Most of them are terrible people(or at least unpleasant) who in real life you should probably avoid. However, their darkness is appealing, and at the center of most of these stories is a woman who has captured this beastly man’s attention and love(and has changed him in a way).

Now as far as his “fanbase”(they are by and large Dumbnyra stans which is why I stay on my island 🏝️ now) leaning into the whole incest /blood supremacy theme, yeah a lot of it is low-key creepy. I may be hypocritical saying it, but the way they do it doesn’t seem normal especially when you take into account how they treat certain characters like Nettles(who is the one who changes him in canon, but they dislike her and want to acknowledge her importance to him due to her not looking like them😙).

I’ll leave it off by saying if you dislike Daemon most of his fics aren’t going to make you like him because of the nature of the content. No one is trying to show him in a good light. His appeal is in the fact that he’s this powerful temperamental brute of a man that their chosen self-insert (s) “tames”🤷🏽‍♀️

[ladymorghul]

Aemond can truly be called a villain after he'll execute the Strongs at Harrenhal and burns the Riverlands…until then, I definitely agree that it's way too soon to assign him this label. Maybe so far he would deserve it for killing Luke, but like you said, TB stans refuse to condemn Daemon and call him a villain for his bad deeds and will keep doing so even after B&C, yet we're supposed to do it with Aemond?

I also agree with the other anon that it's some Aegon stans who are often starting this whole Aegon vs Aemond discourse and I also think it's mostly because they are frustrated with how Aegon was treated by the writers vs how Aemond was (I think they did it to prop up Rhaenyra though, not Aemond, so everyone watching the show sides with her claim) but frankly they should direct their complaints at them instead of beefing with Aemond fans and lowkey hoping that Aemond also gets villainized next season by having him act like a psycho who cares about nothing except himself instead of receiving a proper arc with him slowly descending into madness.

That's not to say Aemond stans are innocent in all this. We all know how the Aemondwives act about him, claiming he's this very loyal, dutiful prince, who truly cares about the women in his lives and would never SA a woman (vs Aegon who's a rapist and Daemon who's a pedo -- just pointing out some of them say when they compare the men) and generally someone who'll never do anything, intentionally or not, that puts Aegon's claim or his family into danger…which we know is false and I'm sure they will change their tune once he hooks up with Alys ("hey we never said he's dutiful", "doing his duty did him no good, he still became a kinslayer, now he has every right to choose love this time since Alys is the only one who can love him for himself", etc.) and effectively loses the war for the Greens by abandoning King's Landing and then separating with Criston.

agree with much of this. but also... the more i think of what follows, the more depressed i get lmao

yeah neither aegon nor aemond have completely innocent stans who didn't feed in some way into the discourse. and with aemond stans it's tricky because many of them are not fans of tg characters, just aemond, so i've seen some say they don't care if he leaves them all for alys because they would too. some jokingly some not, it's the same narrative as parentified aemond narrative.

but yeah, i wish everyone would calm down and see the real villains (the writers!)

i'm joking i'm joking... but am i. my baby alicent </3

anyway we'll see what happens next season in the actual show but i'm sure that the great aemond vs aegon fandom war, 2024 ac will come

[aryas-faces]

How to say “I’ve never read the book” without saying “I’ve never read the book”

Rhaenyra IS a selfish person. Anyone who has read the book can tell you that. She consistently puts herself above anyone else. And obviously more than one woman can make sacrifices, what the fuck kind of response is that? No one said that

Rhaenyra WANTED to be the heir. Even ignoring the book, that’s why she is so mad at Aegon’s nameday in 1x03, because she’s afraid he will be named heir. She herself says in 1x08 that she wanted the throne. This rewriting of the show’a history that she never wanted the throne because she tried to convince herself she didn’t want in the premiere before being the named heir is a joke. And her belief that it “must” be her is delusional and makes her a false chosen one by the way

No, Rhaenyra didn’t sacrifice her body. She may have been afraid of childbirth as a child herself, but than she went on to have multiple kids happily with Harwin Strong. Saying that’s the same as Alicent being maritally raped is dishonest at best and just plain rape apology

Rhaenyra leaving for Dragonstone isn’t a sacrifice because as you yourself say, she is the princess of Dragonstone, that’s where the heir lives, aka not a sacrifice. And Alicent didn’t “torment” her; she called Rhaenyra’s obvious bastards bastards. That’s not torment, and by the way, Rhaenyra trying to pass off bastards and Heirs to Driftmark is literally treason. And calling out passing off bastards as heirs is treason is literally what Ned Stark dies for in the OG game of thrones, but you probably want to rewrite history on that too

How did Rhaenyra lose her daughter due to Aegon being crowned? It was a stillbirth; would’ve happened anyway. And son, yes. That was the Greens fault. I’m not defending them for that. But it Aemond’s actions ALONE. If you want to blame ALL the Greens for that, then I’m gonna blame Rhaenyra for Blood and Cheese too. Rhaenyra being ready to sacrifice the throne for her family is a show invention that exists only to whitewash Rhaenyra: not canon

“Rhaenyra offered her peace,” also a show invention designed to whitewash Rhaenyra. In the book, it is ONLY ever the Greens that try for peace. Rhaenyra wants all her enemies heads on spikes, only considering sparing her siblings for a short time and ONLY because if her fear if kinslaying. No other reason

And no, Aegon isn’t a psycho in canon, the show made him one to make people like you Team Black superficially. And they gave Aegon’s motivation (protecting his family) to Rhaenyra. That alone should tell you the writers jealousy of Aegon in the book, and we’re not even REALLY getting into that topic. And yes, Aegon was forced to the throne, but it was because Rhaenyra was a LEGITIMATE THREAT TO HIM AND HIS FAMILY

Rhaenyra sacrificing people to dragons IS evil. It’s not up for debate. And no, it’s not the same Alicent “starting” a war she tried to prevent from trying for peace

Aemond DOES deserve to be punished for kinslaying but again, I never said he didn’t. You’re arguing with points you’ve made up in your head

“Rhaenyra lost Harwin” and didn’t shed a single tear about it and was fucking her uncle the next day. And yeah, Larys should’ve been punished but again, this isn’t a sacrifice in the same way Rhaenyra sacrificing innocents is. Rhaenyra knew what she was doing, Alicent had no idea that would happen. If you don’t see the difference, I don’t know what to tell you

And to your last point: I love Rhaenyra. I just love BOOK Rhaenyra, the REAL Rhaenyra. The cold, cruel, Cersei/Mad King mashup who is an incredible villain. Not this innocent, sanitized, fanfic version of her

Is this a fucking joke?!

ALICENT has never sacrificed anything?!

Alicent has sacrificed EVERYTHING

She sacrificed her choices and happiness for Otto by marrying the King. She sacrificed her friendship with Rhaenyra. She sacrificed her bodily autonomy to give the king a male heir. She sacrificed her own safety for the safety of her children. She was prepared to die by dragonfire for Aegon, sacrificing her own life for his

But no. She has never sacrificed anything. Everything has been handed to her on a silver platter according to these writers

Meanwhile wtf has Rhaenyra sacrificed? A random knight so she could marry Daemon? A ton of innocent people for more dragons? Those aren’t personal sacrifices the way Alicent’s are. She’s sacrificing other people for herself

Not the same at all

And everything she has, she has been handed on a silver platter. Daddy named her heir, despite her treason in passing off bastards as heirs to Driftmark. She fucked off to Dragonstone and still was heir. She got the Riverlands because of Daemon, not anything she did. She got the dragons through evil means. Alicent offers her everything she wants

It it’s Alicent who has never sacrificed anything?

And now she’s being forced by the writers to sacrifice her son; the person she did all this to protect. Now she’s choosing Rhaenyra because this is redemption to the writers instead of the character assassination that it is

At least Olivia tries to save what she can by making Alicent have a panic attack

[darkestspring]

Aemond being so heavily delusional with outlandered reader, thinking she’s this perfect, simple thing that needs to be guided. Meanwhile she’s just confused and trying not to get fucking murdered.

She didn’t understand. She was so pure and simple. The gods had given him the perfect woman. One that would understand, that could never betray him. Someone beautiful and innocent.

"I..." she hid her panic, sensing that giving her real name was perhaps not the best idea "Daisy. My name is Daisy" she gave her best smile, innocent eyes widened, in a way that the man across from her would never suspect

“Daisy. My beautiful lady Daisy.” He said her name reverentially, slowly, softly, almost in a whisper. “Daisy… what an exquisite name my lady.” He was smitten. She was perfect. She was to be his. He looked her up and down, making no attempt to hide it because there was no need to. He looked into her eyes and smiled slightly, his best innocent smile. The gods must be looking down on him with favour today. He would marry her, he would make her his, she would be his, forever and always. His innocent little flower

"I... thank you?" she stuttered, heart pounding in terror, though all Aemond saw was her flushing the prettiest of pinks "If you don't mind my asking my prince, what do you intend to do with me?"

He didn’t even have to think twice. The gods had made him want her, they made his heart race thinking about her, and now, they had allowed him to come upon her and he claim his gift. It all happened so naturally. As he looked at her, his heart pounded. She was his. That is what the gods had intended. The gods had gifted him the woman I wished for.

“You are mine, my lady Daisy.” He said to her, his voice still soft, full of wonder at his discovery. “You are mine now.”

"...yours?" she furrowed her brow, trying not to hyperventilate from the intensity of the man in front of her

“Yes my lady,” he said, a wide grin on his face as he stared into her gem-like eyes. “I will keep you safe from harm. You will be… my wife, my love, my lady, forever. This is what the gods have willed. And I will do as they command. I have no need for any other woman. You are the one”

Aemond let the words soak in for a moment. “My lady Daisy… will you… will you marry me?”

Outlandered reader obviously initially realises how psycho Aemond is but has also watched enough crime shows to know to not piss him off and just play along for now, only to fall genuinely head over heels for her psychotic now husband. Because what other man would kill for her? Would worship the ground she walked on?

(NOT ME WRITING A WHOLE ASS FUCKING FIC IN YOUR ASKS)

KAT STOP MAKING ME OBSESS OVER THIS. I'VE NEVER EVEN SEEN OUTLANDER SHUT UP!!!!!

I think aemond would absolutely just straight up marry her, whether its in the valyrian tradition or in the faith of the seven doesn't really matter but he wants to marry reader so badly. he's convinced that its the gods will in his eyes, they have given him you so he'll marry you as soon as possible, so protect you from danger.

aemond is both obsessive and extremely protective. he wants to protect you from every danger. he knows that with vhagar, you'll be safe from all harm but he's also incredibly obsessed with you. he doesn't like being away from you for long periods of time and wants to be around you all the time.

i think he'd also want to introduce you to his mother and sister so he'd take great care to teach you the rules and mannerisms of that time period. he would absolutely dress you in either targaryen colors or green.

[raparopa]

a/n: you won't believe who's still alive

a/n 2: I remind you that my English is still bad

a/n 3: PLEASE write if you want to see beautiful women from this series too (yes i write femslash)

warnings: murders? (?not romantic guys?)

jealousy

daemon targaryen

-good. daemon targryen psycho (my opinion, you know). if he has real feelings for you, then his jealousy, well, how to say ... he will not say this directly, rather he will mockingly hint to you that he is dissatisfied with this or that action of another person.

-I think he will actually react with ridicule. first he will humiliate the one who dared to disturb your peace of mind, this, of course, will attract the attention of everyone

-if the guy realizes that it's time to leave, the daemon will throw a couple of barbs at you after all this. if not...then god forbid someone meet with an annoyed daemon.

-do you remember the scene with velaryon? repeat it in your head with double brutality and ten times

-daemon - a man with an eternal sword in his hands. so I doubt that if someone knows about your connection with the targaryen, he will climb to you)))))

criston cole

- in my head criston cole-yandere. and do what you want with me ok? he is not a reserved person. he is a walking bomb that will explode from a small spark. he attaches too much to those he loves, and this attachment is not entirely healthy

-everything can make him jealous. EVERYTHING. did someone look at you for more than two seconds? did someone touch you? someone complimented you and you smiled? killing machine mode enabled.

-he will immediately get into a fight. if he doesn’t get into a fight, he will challenge him to a fight. if he doesn’t call for a fight, he will blow his head off, while no one sees.

-you are everything for him that exists. there is nothing else but you. after he has dealt with the threat on the horizon, in the form of someone else near you, he will be angry enough not to speak to you for several days, also suffering from his actions.

-everything you do should be directed towards him and only him. it is not discussed. and it doesn't matter who you are or what you are.

aemond targaryen

- looks at the opponent for a long time and menacingly, making everyone within a mile radius nervous. I think he's poking his knife into the table, making everyone JUST MORE nervous.

-long and absolute destruction of his opponent. such that poor alicent wants to turn into something round and roll away to hell from the king's landing. everyone is silent while the prince speaks. he deliberately ignores you and your presence, your entreaties, your requests. he has one goal - to destroy the one who thought too much of himself.

-I love this guy very much, but let's not deny that he has certain problems with affection and feelings (like all other relatives). he is very painfully worried inside himself that someone can steal you from him. he's so deeply insecure because of his eye...why does the only person he's revealed to prefer someone else?

-when he finishes talking, the person talking to you will be dead. typical outcome.

-and you? a serious conversation awaits you. and you will also get some unpleasant offers. unconscious of course. (followed by the meanest apologies)

aegon targaryen

-he immediately starts pouting like a small child. how DARE you be with someone else instead of him?! how dare someone steal you away from him?! how is that even possible?

-I think he even cries a little. just for a second. and then immediately orders to destroy the person who interfered with his personal happiness.

-he will be offended. and will be convinced that it is you who are to blame for this. you will not be able to find him for several days, and if you meet, he will defiantly pretend that you do not exist.

-yes, you will have to apologize on your own.

-and say that he is the most wonderful in the world. just say the sweetest things about him, hold him in your hand, stroke his hair, comfort him. and only then will you be forgiven.

[gardenofnineveh]

Lucerys is so Princess Diana-coded. Like ever seen that pic of Diana in a blue dress falling asleep days before she announced she was pregnant with Prince William? That’s so Lucerys. Literally the hair, the eyes!

Aemond is also Princess Diana-coded. Behind that tough psycho facade, it’s clear he needs love and help and more love, just Princess Diana did when her marriage with Charles started falling apart.

Engagement -

Media: Are you in love?

Lucerys: Why yes, of course? [blushing and casually showing off his sapphire engagement ring 💍 , yes even the engagement ring is Diana coded 😩]

Aemond: Whatever love may mean… [smiles at Luke cuz my boi mond ain’t a cheater!]

I need the really emotional and real marriage struggles, and Aemond finally going on record after years of staying silent and playing the bad guy in the royal family in the eyes of the public.

Interview -

Interviewer: There were reports of you, your Highness, struggling with self-image and trauma. Is that true?

Aemond: [Think the shy, downturned look from the bts interviews] Hm, yes. Yes, I did. Even though I did not realize at the time, I did. The scar… the missing eye.

Growing up I was not… the most handsome, or pretty, boy around. And people around me made that clear, but the eye situation magnified and intensified every problem I had… with people, family, and friends.

For a while, after the eye, I told myself I didn’t care. I rode Vhagar, the largest dragon in the world. I was doing better in both swordsmanship and my studies than my peers. But there was always something unsettling in my heart. Something I neglected and tried to overcompensate for. Hence, the tours in the Riverlands, the Stepstones. My behavior and so called “acting out” at Storm’s End… It really gets to you when the media always portrays you as the villain because well, I look like one. So I thought, why not let their dreams come true? Why can’t I really embrace being the villain?

It really took years of work and being in a loving relationship and just being recognized for simply who I am for me to really see that. That I was hurting, and I was reaching out for help but not in a way others may understand. That I wanted to have a stable married life and be loved.

Interviewer: How was your relationship with the Queen?

Aemond: Well, there were initially three of us in a marriage, so it was a bit crowded. [classically Diana omo]

She was and has always been a loving and wonderful mother to Luke, and being a father now, I can somewhat see why she was the way she was.

It came down to a choice, between she and me, for Luke. We forced Luke to make a choice. And I, as well as she, knew that I had no chance of winning.

Interviewer: What were your reactions when your separation from Prince Lucerys was announced to the public?

Aemond: Well, we have been living apart for a couple month by then, by the time it was announced on television. We never had an official separation, no. We just thought that living apart would have helped resolve the issues we had with our marriage.

Then the journalists caught wind of it and published photographs of Lucerys attending the Queen’s charity banquet alone, dropping off our children to school alone.

The people, when they saw this… I asked, when it was decided that a statement ought to be made on this matter, that the news is aired before the holidays because that way our children wouldn’t. They were at school, and they were very well-protected at school.

Interviewer: That was the one holiday where you weren’t there with your husband, is that right?

Aemond: Yes, I remember watching the Christmas messages to the country and the morning mass broadcasting on television alone. I didn’t know that Lucerys with 6 months pregnant was our third child. We haven’t seen each other for three, four months at that point.

I remember the red cloak he wore inside the church and really couldn’t hide it from the cameramen when they came outside after service was over. The country was in shock, seeing this live for the first, and I remember being there with them - shocked but a good sort of shock.

(All grown up, communicative Aemond muah)

And Luke would be backstage and be so supportive and proud of Aemond. Lucemond hugs 🤗

[theredpharaoah]

*High Valyrians is my shorthand for the 40 Noble Dragonlord Families of Old Valyria

Do you think the people Daenerys put in charge of guarding the pyramid Viserys and Rhaegal are kept in have a better understanding of them than she does? Or that the people the Stark’s employed to mind their Direwolves had a better understanding of them than they did. The Dragonlords and their Dragons have a supernatural psycho-somatic bond. That’s why I said they are “two halves of one soul”. In the Dragonkeepers’ hands the Dragons are tame, in a Dragonlord’s hands the dragons are domesticated. The dragons only stay in the pit and listen to the Dragonkeepers because the Targaryens tell them to. We see during the Storming of the Pit that they could easily break out of there if they wished. Claiming the Targs have no regard for their safety because they ride them to war is ridiculous. Did the Starks have no regard for the safety of their Direwolves because they took them to war? Do none of the lords have regard for the safety of their family and friends because they have them go to war? Do they have no regard for the beloved horses they’ve spent their whole lives tending to and training because they ride them to war? Or in that same vein - the hunting dogs they’ve spent their entire lives caring for and training because they use them to hunt? The Dragons are actually EXTREMELY unlikely to die in a war unless they’re fighting other dragons. Only one adult dragon has died since the Conquest to a mortal weapon - Meraxes.

The Targaryens have as much regard for the safety of their dragons as they do for themselves. Nearly all the situations you listed saw the death of the dragon AND the rider. Aerea died and her dragon didn’t. Also, Aerea didn’t “hijack” Balerion. Balerion wasn’t claimed by anyone. No one expected her to claim Balerion but she wasn’t disallowed from doing so. Aerea was a very sad little girl who just wanted to travel and have fun. People assume she had no control over Balerion but I think she did. We don’t have any instances of young riders having trouble controlling dragons. Laena and Helaena both claim Vhagar and Dreamfyre respectively at the same age - Vhagar older than Balerion was at the time Aerea claimed him. They had no trouble controlling them. Aemond claims Vhagar when he’s 10. Rhaenyra claims Syrax, who’s about 48 at the time, when she’s 7; I don’t think they had an issue claiming older dragons. Aerea was just being a stupid kid and flew somewhere it wasn’t too wise to fly to. And considering she was gone for an entire year, I’m inclined to think she was fine for most of it and then something went wrong towards the end.

Rhaenys wasn’t arrogant when she flew to battle - if anything Aemond and Aegon were. Rhaenys had been riding Meleys for over 40 years by the time of the dance. She was the most experienced rider in the world and her and Meleys had seen many battles. GRRM wrote this out when he put P&Q in F&B as ppl said he hadn’t told us what battles Meleys was in. Instead of using the battles people suggested he just wrote it out altogether. But the subtext(to me) still heavily implies Rhaenys and Meleys are the most experienced riders and warriors on the Black Council. And he was unable to get rid of that cuz that’s the role he wanted her character to fill in the first place - I digress. When it came down to the Dance, the real factors playing into who would “win” in a Dragon-on-Dragon fight were rider experience and Dragon size. Battle experience didn’t matter because that was only experience having to do with fighting men. And I’d say that could be easily made up for with experience of the rider, as that most likely just means they’re able to keep their dragons from panicking, going to wherever they smell the most blood, and maybe to use their underbellies to block most projectiles so as to minimize the chance of them being hit in the eyes. Dragons aren’t cared for by their parents at all which means their ability to kill and hunt must be purely instinctual. So a dragon being described as fearsome or whatever has more to do with how tolerant they are of humans than how they actually behave in battle. And it most likely has a lot to do with their rider’s personality and their perception by the public. You’ll notice that pretty much all the she-dragons who had primarily female riders are described as “docile” or tolerant whereas all the…he-dragons are described as fearsome and whatnot. But Rhaenys had to face Aemond and Aegon because she couldn’t abandon House Staunton - especially when she was the only person there that stood a chance against these opponents. Meleys had a good chance of beating Vhagar, but Sunfyre fucked it up. And again, What do you think happens if Meleys dies while Rhaenys is on her back? 9 times out of 10, Rhaenys is going to die too. Aegon the Uncrowned’s strategy was as much a suicide mission as Robb riding off to war against commanders with far more experience in swordplay and military strategy as him; they didn’t really have a choice in the matter. Unless they wanted to watch their families die or run off and sell oranges in Essos. They don’t have no regard for the lives of their dragons. They’re living in a world where you go to war and put your life on the line. They have as much regard for the lives of their dragons as they do their own. And the majority of them live and die with their dragons. All the people you listed as not caring for the lives of their dragons died fighting for the lives of themselves and their loved ones(besides Aerea).

The High Valyrians bred dragons for the explicit purpose of going to war against other men, but they enjoyed fighting amongst themselves the most. Dragons fought all the time in Valyria. And just like we saw in the Dance, when a dragon died usually their rider died with them. And from what we see in the series as well, a rider who outlived their dragon most likely never took a new one even though they could. The Targaryens are their dragons. When they died, the Targaryens died. They became just as regular a house as any other. Dany’s story is all about them getting their mojo back. The Dragonpit was 5 times the size of the caves in the Dragonmont and dragons don’t seem to leave their lairs much - if at all - without a rider. Not unless they’re feral. Every Targaryen who claimed a dragon rode them constantly. The dragons died because of the ignorance of the children left after the Dance and Westerosi fear. Maester Bennifer tells Rhaena and Jaehaerys that the stolen eggs aren’t likely to hatch so far away from the heat of Dragonstone. The most likely reason why eggs stopped hatching is because of that. All of the eggs were being hatched in KL, Driftmark, etc. All of the dragons that we see in the pit are brought there when they’re young. They’re either hatched in cradles or they hatch on Dragonstone and are transported there later. People say the Maesters poisoned the dragons but I don’t think so. As Septon Barth says; “Death exits a dragon’s mouth but it does not enter through there”. There’s no poison they could concoct that would survive the heat of the dragons. I think the Maesters just didn’t tell Aegon III, Baela, Rhaena, etc, that the lack of satisfactory heat was what stopped the eggs from hatching. And they wouldn’t have known because they weren’t told. It was probably considered “common sense” in the family, and ask any historian/anthropologist how much of a bane on our existence “common sense” is.

Oh please. The Targaryens’ relationship with their dragons don’t stem from self interest, power, or as symbols of war. They LOVE those dragons. And unlike the Dragonkeepers, they know those dragons in a sense that the Dragonkeepers never will. The Targaryens only even conquered Westeros because of Aegon’s dream. They were content to stay on Dragonstone for 100 years minding their business before that. You’d do well to remember that the High Valyrians never wanted to rule anyone. That’s why it’s a freehold and not an empire. They considered ruling all those people a chore and were only interested in the luxuries that came with it. They didn’t even like fighting other nations because they didn’t consider any of them to be an actual challenge. They’d rush to deal with them so they could return to engaging in actual competition with one another.

The Dragonkeepers are essentially viewed as “people who give me food” by the Dragons. The Dragons listen to them because they’re told to listen to them by the Targaryens. The Dragonkeepers didn’t even exist until Jaehaerys made them. And their primary function was to GUARD the dragons after the Aerea debacle. Which doesn’t really make any sense because Aerea claimed Balerion on Dragonstone and the Pit wasn’t done when she did. Most likely Jaehaerys just wanted to control who got dragons and make sure his children didn’t end up like Aerea.

The Dragonkeepers view the dragons as gods the same way the common folk and some of the lesser lords do. And this again most likely has a lot to do with Jaehaerys and his Targaryen Exceptionalism. The literal words that left the keeper’s mouth goes against your statement. If he thought like you did, he would’ve had a problem with ANYONE riding the dragons. His gripe was that Rhaenyra was letting non Targaryens - non Dragonlords - attempt to claim dragons. They only considers Targaryens as being worthy of claiming dragons, and view it as sacrilegious to attempt to give the power to anyone else. The sacrilegious act isn’t a dragon being ridden, it’s a non-Targaryen doing the riding. Jaehaerys created the dragonkeepers and they’ve been brainwashed by his Doctrine of Exceptionalism. They’re literally the last people you should be using to try and make this argument. “Targaryens are closer to gods than men”, “Targaryens are not like common men, they ride dragons and we’re the only ones to do so since The Doom”, “Targaryens were immune to common illnesses that could kill other men”. Even when the Keepers are expressing their misgivings with Rhaenyra they never disrespect her or express any disdain. Their whole argument is that only legit members of the house should ride dragons because only they’re worthy of doing so. They have disdain for her actions not her.

Edit: Recall that one of the big reasons we even have Dragonseeds, is because the commoners view the Targaryens/Velaryons as gods. Which is why they didn’t really have a problem with the Targs and Velaryons practicing the First Night. Alysanne officially outlawed it, but it had already been very unpopular in most of Westeros by the time of The Conquest.

Oh God, what is this? PEETA for Planetos? The High Valyrians literally are a superior race of beings. They’re GRRM’s elves. GRRM’s take on fantasy is to make it a bit more “realistic” and to humanize everyone involved. The Valyrians are like the Elves or even the Dwemer from Skyrim, or the Orokin from Warframe. They’re not better by nature, but they made themselves better with their magic. They used blood magic to bind dragons to themselves and no one else in the world has managed to do so - other than the ones who taught them to do it. That’s pretty special. Everything humans do in the real world and fiction is “petty”. And the fights that the Dragons died in were not petty. These were fights over who would rule Westeros. Tbh, these were probably the LEAST petty conflicts the dragons were ever used in as they’re only there because of the song of Ice and Fire. They used to fight in Valyria for shits and giggles. And again; petty? They were fighting over who would rule and lead Westeros, not over blankets and the passenger seat in the car. Only some sort of God would see these very human conflicts as “petty”. You’re arguing they’re not any better than regular humans in body and/or mind. So why should they be held to a greater standard than anyone else fighting for what they believe in and going to war?

No we don’t. There are absolutely zero consequences to the High Valyrians or Targaryens because there are no gods and morality is subjective. These people ruled without competition for about 5000+ years. And the Targs ruled Westeros for about 3 centuries. The had the addition of magic and dragons but all empires fall and dynasties end all the time. There’s nothing in the text that can be used as evidence to state they were “cursed” by the gods. This whole post reads like some spiel from a Septa or a Westerosi commoner. Honest and deserving work? GRRM states magic is vague and magical in his verse, but our knowledge of Valyria, Rhoyne, the Singers, etc makes it very clear that it works there just like it does in real world traditions: it’s a science and an art. No one did it better than the Valyrians. Their use and development of blood magic was as “honest” as any real life science. GRRM’w world doesn’t even have Karma. The Targaryens have as much stillborn as anyone else in the time period. And the majority of their stillborns aren’t even born with draconic traits. Mushroom says Visenya was born with Draconic traits, but he also explicitly states Rhaenyra cursed her during her birth. And we only see this sort of stillborn in the case of magical interference: Tyana fucked around with the pregnancies of Maegor’s wives. Rhaego was due to Mirri’s blood magic, Laena’s third child. And a lot of times we don’t even know if these children are actually born with scales and whatnot, they’re just described as twisted and malformed. We have all sorts of babies born with horrible deformities in the real world. And the Draconic traits most likely have to do with the “blood of the dragon”. Their babies probably don’t get to finish developing and so certain traits don’t disappear. We grow tails in the womb and they disappear by 8 weeks. The High Valyrians are probably full Zmeu in the womb at some point during development, and as the pregnancy progresses those traits disappear and they settle on their normal traits. They’re just Zmeu stillborns basically. Nothing special(other than the magical component) or “cursed” about it.

Edit: there are gods but not moral ones. R’hllor’s favorite sacrifices are children and beautiful things. And even if you say that’s just Melisandre talking; he’s not punishing her for sacrificing children or taking the powers he gave her away so she can’t do it anymore. The Drowned God literally endorses raiding and raping. The Valyrian and Ghiscari gods most likely endorse slavery. All gods most likely endorse the serfdom of Westeros.

And what about the First Men then? Because it’s heavily implied they did blood magic and human sacrifice too. And it’s even implied that the COTF and the First Men might’ve had relations. They have different versions of the same magic the Valyrians had. Dragon dreams = green dreams, skinchanging = dragon bond, Weirwoods = Dragons, Greenseers/Skinchangers/Warg Kings = Dragonlords Dragonhorns = Horn Winter. A horn to control dragons, and a horn to “wake the sleepers” and walk trees. Both made from bone and inscribed with their respective runes. This is probably why the Valyrians were too scared to attempt conquering Westeros. People think it was the Others, but I think they were worried they’d get their dragons stolen. But anyways: Are the First Men cursed? This beastiality thing is tired and I think some of you guys need therapy with how obsessed with it you all seem to be. There’s no argument you could make for an inherent immorality of beastiality based on actual evidence. It’s disgusting, but there’s no evidence of a universal law saying “don’t do that”. Morals are culturally subjective. I also think most of the shit people say about what the Valyrians did is exaggerated. GRRM loves to play with the idea of how historical societies often drastically exaggerated things out of ignorance and a need for drama. I don’t think they fucked dragons. The logistics of that doesn’t even make sense. I think they just used blood magic. They could literally just do some Son of Rambo blood brother type shit and call it a day. Also, they’re an order of Guards, not a guild. They’re like the Kingsguard for House Targaryen’s dragons.

This Dragonkeeper is speaking like he know more of dragons than her. Which he doesn’t. No one knew the dragons in the pit better than the keepers but they’re not Dragonlords and have never been bound to one. They know theory only. Rhaenyra is a literal dragon. If the dragons are sacred then so is she. Her and Syrax are like two halves of the same soul or some shit. Furthermore; “fuck sacred”. Like their dragons, Targaryens - Valyrians - answered to neither Gods nor Men.

[amethysttide]

Some plot holes created in House of the Dragon so far;

This is not me hating on the show itself or any of the characters btw, I'm enjoying it so far despite the changes but once I started thinking about it I couldn't stop, lol. Reasons to follow the source material fr

SPOILERS FOR THE BOOK LOOK AWAY IF YOU DON'T WANT THEM

1. Leanor's "death". I was actually happy as hell when they let him live and only faked his death because I love Leanor and didn't want that family to suffer more after just losing Laena. Buuut that creates a whole bunch of problems. First, Leanor as a character; he faked his own death to run away right after his parents just lost their daughter, his nieces their mother and his own claimed sons lost their real father. That's lowkey selfish as hell but it can be excused because that's what he wanted for himself, to finally be able to live freely. I can see him making that decision. What can't be excused is him sailing away instead of flying with Seasmoke. Why? Well, to begin with the bond between a dragon and it's rider has been ruined more than once in the show so far and this is one example. Seasmoke knows Leanor is not dead, you can't trick a dragon. Dragons only bond with new riders when they lose their prior ones so Seasmoke won't get a new rider unless Leanor dies off screen wherever he went or they just say fuck it to dragons' loyalty. If Seasmoke doesn't get a new rider, his role in the dance is basically erased and team black loses one rider from their side.

2. The final scene of episode 9, of Rhaenys crashing the coronation. Now this one is a whole bunch of problems and it honestly pisses me off because apparently, someone just decided that it would be badass.

It's a known fact that the townfolk is in favour of the Greens in the book and against Rhaenyra and that scene with Rhaenys gave them all the more reason to be on that side. She killed hundreds, maybe thousands of innocent citizens just to make an entrance.

The entrance of which made no sense btw. Without going into too much detail, later on in the dance the dragon pit will be stormed and the dragons inside will die, some because of the ceiling collapsing on them. Yet, in that scene, Rhaenys flew straight through without her dragon, or herself for that matter how did she not get hurt during that stunt, taking any damage.

There's also the issue about the rest of the dragons that were supposed to be in the pit. Sunfyre, Dreamfyre? Vhagar was surely nearby? And none of these dragons got hurt during the destruction OR EVEN WORSE, CAME TO PROTECT THEIR RIDERS WHO'S LIVES WERE THREATENED?

Then Rhaenys just... Left? Somehow her dragon shrunk in size to get through the doors, LOL. Someone said she didn't kill the noble family because it wasn't her war but like... It is? Her whole family is on that side? Her granddaughters, his son in law, her future grandsons in law, her husband? It IS her war. She did not do anything because that scene never happened in the book and they couldn't fuck up continuity further.

Additionally, in the book, there IS a dragon scene during the coronation. It's between Sunfyre and Aegon. Aegon arguably has the best relationship with his dragon throughout the entire story and they took out any opportunities to show that. Similarly, in the book when Aemond has his eye cut out, Vhagar roars in the distance to show that their new bond is solid.

And again, because of that scene alone, Aemond being a fuck ass and killing Luke in the finale won't be just him being a petty psycho. He'll still be a bitch with no honour for doing it during peace talks, but just before that, Rhaenys would have crashed his brother's coronation and killed so many of his people and threatened his whole family. It makes it seem like team Black hit first instead.

But EVEN THEN, there's another problem with Aemond. Wherein the book, he was loyal as hell to Aegon from beginning to an end, refusing to be called king and only going by regent, he's now envious of his brother and wanting the crown? My god

And don't get me started on taking away majority of Alicent and Rhaenyra's wrongdoings to whitewash them. Alicent doesn't have half the agency in the dance that she originally had, although it turned her into a really interesting character that I enjoy watching (mostly because of the performance. Olivia Cooke I love you FR). Rhaenyra on the other hand, is so whitewashed that it's hard to distinguish wether she's now mature and calm or just bland.

A mess y'all, a mess.