#also i started thinking about my attraction to women vs men

[thefawnfallacy]

The way that Hannibal and Will are never referred to as being queer is interesting. It’s not like sexuality never comes up, it does, predominantly with Margot who openly admits to being lesbian and talks about it often as a part of her character but I think that the way sexuality is framed is another mask.

Margot openly wants to kill her brother, so her sexuality is on display, she is a character that the viewer can “see”. The audience knows that Hannibal is queer — he doesn’t say it but it is shown through numerous other characters, predominantly through Will. Will is the filter in which the viewer “sees” Hannibal and so we know and acknowledge that he is a queer character.

Will is the blurriest and this is interesting in a variety of ways to me. Why does the viewer never have a clear sense of sexuality from Will? To start, Will is an unreliable narrator, we cannot explicitly trust the truth of what Will tells us about anything because it’s always just slightly shifted. He doesn’t victimise himself but he does elevate himself, just slightly, based on his current concept of morality. He was guilty when he killed Hobbes so we see him as guilty and unsteady, he was righteous when he killed Tier, so we see him through a lens of righteousness. No-one else can see him clearly and therefore, neither can we. He is not hidden in plain sight the same way as Hannibal and in doing so, makes himself very confusing to properly understand while also being exceedingly easy to pick apart.

Will is multifaceted and shifts the way he’s perceived a number of times throughout the series, while always giving the impression that he is completely unaware of it.

(side note: this doesn’t properly fit but I think it’s worth mentioning the “Will Graham is not a lesbian” line because there’s an undertone of stubborn curiosity there — is Will Graham a lesbian? Hannibal doesn’t know and Margot is quite smug about it, but that’s more gender based than anything).

Because of the ability to “chameleon” himself for any situation, he leaves a lot open to interpretation. Will Graham could be queer, he could be straight, he could a lot of things. It’s also worth noting that Will Graham experiences attraction in very different ways when it comes to men vs women based on the characters we see. With Matthew (and I’m using the definition of attraction very loosely here) as well as Hannibal, he is incredibly manipulative, like he can’t imagine being genuine with these men in the biblical sense but with Alana he is more open to being perceived and received a certain way. Molly is a more hollow imitation of Alana — he acts the way he thinks love should be but it’s hollow.

Hannibal, of course, is a curious show of attraction. He expresses a wide range of emotions towards him but never stereotypical feelings, if anything, he seems to take a sharp left when it comes to Hannibal but at the same time, he is very obviously more gentle and honest with him, like he’s trying to “show”the viewer what’s underneath. (meaning he does carry about Hannibal, we know he does, he simply shows a wrestling with these emotions that often come across as more violent or unrefined).

*this is just my interpretation, please don’t take it as gospel 🙂.

[zainmalik]

.

[olderthannetfic]

https://olderthannetfic.tumblr.com/post/739381076510785536/so-it-seems-our-flag-means-death-has-not-been#notes

I liked OFMD and I'm sad it's not getting renewed, but I agree that the fandom was especially toxic, even by the standards of currently popular slash-heavy fandoms. I wanted to read fic after s1 ended the way it did, and I read a little bit, but along with it having all the tropes that I can't stand in a lot of what is currently big with the MSF crowd (and that I'd been happy to have a reprieve from in my current main M/M fandom), the toxicity of the online fandom discourse made me quickly realize it was one that I was going to discuss among my current-friends-from-other-fandoms who also watched it, and my sister who watches it, and pretty much ignore the rest of the Internet. It was such a perfect storm of everything awful, from people who are overly invested in it to an unhealthy degree (I think I realized I wasn't gonna be active in the larger fandom around a month or so before the s2 renewal announcement, when I saw earnest PSA tweets telling people to "stop threatening suicide in HBO's replies if they don't renew OFMD"), to bombarding and parasocial obsessions with the creators and actors, to all the classic "anti" and purity police crap that plagues anything that gets popular on here.

The fandom it reminds me the most of, honestly, is Yuri on Ice fandom at its peak in early-mid 2017. Again, a show I love, but a fandom I absolutely do not miss. In some ways they are kind of similar shows: ones with canon M/M romances where they were not billed as that, and they were hinted from early on but people didn't trust it due to years of dealing with queerbaiting, where that sort of thing slowly crept up on people and then became the defining feature of how it was discussed everywhere. I wonder if there's a particular level of insanity that that type of thing breeds in its fans - or maybe, more broadly, "canon M/M with a large female fanbase." Like, you don't see this kind of thing in canon M/M stuff that's mostly watched by queer men rather than women, but there are shades of the insanity I also remember from Glee fandom (I was more active on the F/F side of things there, which had its own unhinged drama, but the Klaine vs. anti-Klaine stuff was so explosive that it was hard not to notice it if you were anywhere in that fandom, like a mushroom cloud in the distance). But YOI and OFMD do seem very... singular in the particular kind of obsession that they generate.

And I really wish people would shape the fuck up, because if they're going to act like this over and over again, that's just going to de-incentivize showrunners to make shows like this for that audience.

Driving Con O'Neill off Twitter was one of the worst parts of it, too. There was something so refreshingly earnest about how much he embraced the fandom, even the weirdest parts - saying with regard to NSFW fanart that "art is art" and retweeting stuff like his character in a crop-top that said "babygirl." It was so nice to see an actor who didn't usually have that kind of following embrace it wholeheartedly rather than steering clear. ....And then people had to be awful and creepy and obsessive and he left Twitter. I bet he's going to be a lot more skeptical of dealing with fans in the future!

--

It's not just the canon m/m aspect: it's the wholesomeness.

Yes, yes, they're all evil pirates, I agree, but watching S1 did give me the feeling of something that was supposed to be very progressive and light-hearted in particular ways. I don't think that's bad, but it does tend to attract some very over-sensitive fans with some very rigid expectations.

It's sadly par for the course that one of the random side character actors is the fun one and people are jackasses and desperately want the leads they ship to be the fandomy ones and/or just start creeping on any actor they can get a reaction from.

[kit-williams]

Beauty in the eye

Yandere Emperor's Children

This could be seen as an OC but I'm doing my best with this x reader (please someone tell me if it's working) ((or would it better to switch to you vs she))

tw: Yandere, nudity? body horror? dubious consent? Its slannesh time again, Emperor's children ((Also please let me know if I miss some I'm trying my best to warn ya'll ))

The moans that drifted around the room. The white marble against the gold filigree and royal purple fabrics. As men, women, and everything in between experienced the ecstasy of Slannesh. Palion Hiss ran his tongue against the exposed spine of one of his devotees. Their moans and shrieks of pain fluttered about his gallery as he was searching for a new piece.

Oh how bored he was with all the smooth shapes... the only thing that could stimulate his eyes were the way the silken fabrics would pool and wrinkle... the pulsing bloody forms of peeled flesh. The way thrown paint would chaotically splatter against the wall. It's all because he had gotten a new muse.

He tossed the devotee to the side ignoring the shriek of pain and the way they thrashed in agony. His eyes roamed over the undressed shapes before his muse walked in. Covered in a dark blue robe with a hood and wearing a white porcelain mask. He painted the red lips and applied the delicate blush.

He could see her eyes dart over the sea of bodies and shy away as one thrashing body gets too close. White gloves cover her hands... every inch of skin covered... he knew her feet were bare but the length of the robes.... hid it all from their eyes. Palion bit his bottom lip watching her eyes shy away from the more lurid acts going on in his gallery. It made his tongue tie knots on itself with how shy she would be.

She walked closer to his throne as she held a tray with food for him and drugs. Hmm he's sure he ordered that ages ago... no wonder he was bored he had been out of his muse's light for so long. How he watches, clawed fingers just idly playing with his long silver locks, her move closer and waits. He'd have to train her more... doesn't she realize that she can just walk up to him climb into his lap even he wants her to be his muse. A jerk of his chin as his eyes flick over to a cacophony of sounds for a moment as her voice is nearly drowned out by it. "Forgive my delay my lord... I was... um kept."

Palion felt his jaw tense. Did someone touch something that was his?! She was his muse, would one of his brothers dare even touch her. "Explain now." He said far too gruffly as he watched the tray start to shake.

"I had... I had to take the long way back. I don't know who they were but... they just were harassing me and trying to pull off my mask." Her meek voice sings to him of fear and shame.

"One of my brothers?" He sees her hesitate, his tongue rolls the drug laced food inside of his mouth. His muse experiences far many more luxuries than any of these drugged out devotees or playthings and one such luxury is her being allowed to hesitate, "Pretty little muse... you'll be safe with me. You just have to only move your head yes or no..." He watched her slowly nod. His hand gently grabbed her chin as he placed a chaste kiss on the porcelain forehead leaving a ghost of purple lipstick on the smooth material. "I'll take care of it... and of course you."

-----

Perfect bodies move all around you. Perfect breasts... waists that are attractive... muscles that run over the body... literally everyone in this room is a work of art. All in the throws of pleasure or pain. Perfect flesh being flayed from a body... the perfect face of pleasure as someone else is fucked dumb... even the ones you think have overdosed lay there looking perfect.

Your skin itches and buzzes as you feel so out of place... you're horribly imperfect as you stand besides Master Palion's throne as he eats and drinks with a bored look on his face. He looks so perfect... everything is perfect. You rapidly blink away the tears as you look down at the floor. You're still upset about earlier... about someone trying to touch your mask... trying to see your face. You're too ugly to be here!

"My muse?" You heard Palion's voice as your head snaps up in worry. Did you breathe too loudly? Did you let out a sad whimper? You can't stop the tremor of fear as he looks at you concerned. He has been a good master but he is in the depths of the Prince's embrace... you're use to masters like that being unpredictable... its how you had gotten disfigured.

"Master?" You whisper softly.

"EVERYONE GET THE FUCK OUT!" He suddenly snarls slamming his hands on the marble arms of the throne and you bow as you go to scurry off but he points at you muttering, "Stay."

It's quiet... saved for the dripping of blood and wine as you follow that perfect stride of his. The way his silver hair sways back and forth like a silken furred tail. You hate it here. You hate having Slanneshi masters... it makes you feel so hideous.

You whimper as your feet leave the bare marble floors and you find yourself sinking into a sea of plushness. Yet you know the bed is firm just you have your own little plush space on his bed. You hear the lock of the door as you roll over and hide your face into a pillow.

"My muse. Look at me." You shake your head at that request. You can picture his worried face... he's too pretty to look upset its why you can't look at him. "Why not?"

"I'm so hideous master! Why do you let me look at you!" You finally start to sob. The bed moves as you try to hide your face more but he calls you his little doll for a reason. He pulls your gloves off delicately... your flesh trembling under his touch as he rubs your left hand. You slap his perfect chest and try to get out of his grip. The blessed and damned mask on your face makes getting oxygen in for your temper tantrum hard. Your robes are the next thing to go.

His hands move over your left side no mater how hard you try to slap his hands away as you shriek at him to stop. You sob as he moans and kisses your ruined flesh. His long forked dark purple tongue works its way into the spider web patterning of your burned flesh. You can feel his hard cock against you and being the brat that you feel like right now you kick it hard.

He moans in rapturous delight as the heel of your foot dug into the sensitive flesh. "My beloved muse... let me see your face!" He moans as you just sob and cover your eyes not being able to handle the way he looks at you. You cry more as he crawls over you, rutting against you, "Mmmm feel what you do to me. Let me see your face my muse! I know you've locked away your beauty... I am but a groveling mortal unable to handle basking in your grace all the time... but please let me just gaze upon your beauty. Let my muse grace me with her smile... let her grace me with her beauty!" He sings to you as you sniffle under him.

When you gently press against his chest he moves back watching with such reverence as you sit up and just gently touch your mask. "I can't... I'm so hideous." You sob out.

"Then let me take it off of you my goddess. " He all but moans out as you sit there and nod. The manic reverent look in his eyes makes you squirm as he pulls the mask away. The entire left side of your face... acid and flames burnt your skin... most of your left arm... your left breast... lucky for you your leg was spared but you have been burnt. Your left eyelid droops slightly as you look at the perfect angel... you run a hand over the bald spots on the left half of your scalp and the sad patches of hair that try to grow through the ruined skin.

You avert your gaze feeling embarrassed at the way he goes to touch himself... lewdly moaning as he pleasures himself to you simply sitting there. It doesn't take too long before you feel warmth spray against your skin as he paints patches of your skin white. "Stop... please stop." You sob.

"Why?"

"I'm hideous."

"If you think that... " He says pushing you onto your back as he looms over you and his eyes glow a purplish-pink from this angle. "It means I haven't worshiped you enough recently. Oh my poor little muse no wonder you weren't having fun at the party or trying to distract me. I can tell you're feeling self conscious. Let me worship you. Not anyone gets my cum little muse. And I have so much to give you. So... will you let me worship you?"

You feel your breath shutter at the intensity of his gaze just like the first time you two met... you whimper softly, "Yes." You say and wrap your arms around his neck as he greedily goes for a kiss... and the hours- no days blend together as he worships you.

[mikesbasementbeets]

this is gonna be long, but i want to explain why i think mike wheeler is gay

we all know mike is queer, i'm not gonna try to prove that he wants to kiss boys (because duh), i want to look at the things that indicate mike is specifically gay, not bi - the relevant difference being, in mike's case, attraction to women. in my opinion, the show is full of evidence that points to mike's specific brand of queerness being not only attraction to men but also lack of attraction to women. (which is why i'm writing this, i just think there's so much textually in the show that backs it up) i'm mostly going to focus on his dynamic with el, but i want to make it really clear first that i love el, and i believe mike really does love el too, just not in the way he thinks he should. his arc is about realizing that the love he feels for el is not romantic (while the love he feels for will is).

romantic ambivalence towards el

this has been rehashed so much since the season 4 monologue, but the way mike talks about el when they first find her in the woods, about sending her back to the asylum, handing her over to mike's parents, and getting her out of the way so they could focus on will, and then later calling her a weapon and using her to find will... this is not love. obviously

he starts feeling protective over her when she confides in him that she's in real danger - mike is naturally protective, he’s the paladin of the group, and because she's under his care, he feels responsible for her safety, defending her even from dustin and lucas. he develops a bond with her. however... nothing about this is romantic. the duffers compare their relationship dynamic this season to elliot and E.T., but alongside mike, the audience is told (by everyone except mike himself... he can never seem to get the words out. more on that later) that mike likes eleven... so we start to believe it

there are so many analyses of mike being the one targeted by the homophobic bullies (and we know why - mike is queer). but more than that, the very first time the idea of mike and eleven as a romantic pair is introduced in the show, the scene is interrupted by the homophobes. while lucas is imitating mike professing his love to eleven, troy show ups and starts talking about will, using homophobic language to provoke the party, particularly mike, and then tripping mike as he tries to get away from them. it's the juxtaposition of these two ideas: mike being teased by his friends for possibly liking el vs. mike facing homophobic bullying

anyway, before the bullies show up, when Lucas starts teasing mike about the way he's been acting with el, mike doesn't get it (and he continues not to get it throughout the series... this is a theme), and lucas has to spell it out for him. it's so obvious mike, you like her.

a few episodes later though, lucas actually calls bullshit on himself -

"you like that a girl's not grossed out by you."

it's not that either of them actually like each other but, as lucas says, and as is repeated by mike and others several times, "she's like a stray dog." they're both using each other, mike to find will, and el for safety and protection (not that this is necessarily bad on either of their parts, it's just not romantic)

later, almost immediately after finding out about el, nancy asks mike if he likes her. (a boy and a girl? oh, they must like each other.) mike's response is a very adamant "ew, no, gross."

this scene is interesting to me because you could take it several ways: nancy lies about not liking jonathan, so then mike lies about not liking eleven... (which is still fine, he may think he does at this point) but i actually think it's more than that. season 3 shows us a mike that associates growing up with liking girls. and before eleven, mike hasn't ever liked a girl. at this point, he's still in the mindset that it's okay for him to not like girls "yet." and if he tells the truth so vehemently that nancy must think he's lying... he's probably ok with that (lucas is right, he likes that a girl's not grossed out by him... and he likes the idea of other people thinking that too... maybe it makes him feel like he's growing up, or like other people think he's growing up. idk though that's just speculation).

soon after this scene with nancy is the scene where mike tells el that when this is all over, she can move into his house and his parents will take care of her. genuinely... he was imagining his family adopting her... his sister would be her sister, his parents would be her parents, she could even have his old bedroom

and then she asks if that means he would be her brother... and he realizes something's not right (honestly though i don't think he even understands where it went wrong at this point).

he was feeling a protective big brother type of love for this scared, lost kid he found in the woods, but when everyone started assuming he "liked" her, it all started getting confused in his head. he assumes he must like her, because he's been conditioned his whole life to think that's just what happens (it's classic comp het!!!)

you could argue that he did really have a crush on el, but just never fell in love with her, but i think the far more logical, narrative based explanation for it is compulsory heterosexuality and internalized homophobia... he was told by all his friends and family that he must have feelings for this girl, so he believed them and tried to act accordingly.... but here's the thing. he has never ever gotten the hang of it

extreme discomfort with expressing romantic feelings toward el

mike's storyline in season 4 was entirely centered around his inability to have an open, honest conversation with his girlfriend. specifically, a conversation about their feelings toward each other. honestly, it's about time el called mike out for this. ever since their first kiss in season 1, every time he has had a moment alone with el, (except for their makeout scenes in s3 i guess... but he's kissed her to avoid using his words before. their first kiss.) mike has tried, struggled, and ultimately failed to voice his romantic intentions or inclinations toward el. (and if we know one thing about mike..... he hates lying)

it's such a pattern that it seems obvious to me that the nature of mike's feelings toward el have not changed over the course of their relationship. even the first time, when he tries to explain that he wouldn't be like her brother because..... that would be weird. why, mike?

he is talking around telling her that he likes her, which... fair enough, honestly. he's hinting at it and trying to get her to understand, and i mean, it's hard to tell someone you like them. and like, he's 12. this is fine

but it's about the context. and it's about the pattern

mike is constantly trying to explain how he feels about el, but he keeps putting it in a romantic framework, and that's his problem. it isn't romantic. it never has been. so he can never find the right words, because the ones he thinks are supposed to fit don't feel right, and mike doesn't want to lie to el. friends don't lie

this discomfort also extends to other expressions of romance, like kissing

🧍🏻 yes, he makes out with her a lot in season 3, but like... he's in way too deep at that point. this is heteronormativity and comp het at it's peak. el is his girlfriend (and they're months into their relationship atp), he's a 14yo boy with a heterosexual facade to keep up, and like, kissing is a fun way to pass the time... (it's better than spending it idk talking and finally getting to know each other, right?) and there's also that drawing of will behind her and the way he moves her hands away like he doesn't want her to touch him... idk seems kinda gay to me

......and then there's this

just like in the season 1 scene, with lucas' teasing cut short by the bullies, it's about the juxtaposition. mike's scene with will, followed by an intimate jancy moment, and then this. el kissing mike while he stands (eyes open) in front of a closet (in will's room), the light inside it lit up over his head. i really think this scene is a big moment in mike's realization of what he's feeling, and what he has been feeling. (one of many... he is just constantly being struck with how gay he is in season 4) the coding of this scene cannot just be about mike simply not having romantic feelings for el specifically, (or about it having started as a real crush that just didn't develop further or something). his absolute indifference to el, a girl (the girl he supposedly likes), kissing him is what is making him realize his queerness... which means that part of his queer revelation is disinterest in girls. they're showing us with every narrative technique in the book that mike doesn't have romantic feelings toward girls.

speaking of which

truly, what is this about if it's not mike projecting... what else could this mean (yes, sure, it could mean a lot of things, and maybe they really did mean it more like "yet," but they chose this line. it's way too on the nose to not mean this: mike doesn't like girls.)

it's about a lot more than el. she just happens to be the unfortunate one in the role of "mike wheeler's girlfriend" (she truly deserves so much more). throughout season 3 we're shown over and over again mike's romantic ineptitude with el. lucas, still assuming mike's romantic feelings toward her, spends a good amount of time this season literally walking mike through how to interact with his girlfriend. mike simply doesn't get it. still.

it doesn't feel natural to mike to have a girlfriend, he doesn't want to pursue el romantically, so he has no idea how to act.

i fully believe that lucas has been doing this for mike since the beginning of their relationship. he teased mike about being with el before the movie double date, mike presumably having confided in lucas about his relationship, and vice versa. mike has definitely been taking intensive notes from lucas.

and this isn't just mike being romantically inept in general. his relationships with el and will continuously parallel and contrast each other. (their fights and mike's reactions, for example) and in season 4, with no help from anyone, mike flirts so naturally with will. like he can't help it.

but with el, he's been forcing it since day one.

in real life, obviously things are wayyyy more complicated: relationships, gender, sexuality, all of it. but this is a fictional show that is telling a specific story, and so when i put together all of the narrative evidence from his entire relationship with el (especially when comparing it to will), it seems clear to me that the story stranger things is telling is not about a bi kid confused about his feelings between a girl he sort of likes and a boy he loves; it's about a boy realizing, through the constant juxtaposition of his relationships with a girl and a boy, both of whom he truly cares about, that he actually likes the boy and not the girl. aka, he's gay.

indifference toward other women

there's so much more in their relationship i could point to (other character/relationship parallels, heavy platonic/familial coding, etc), but i'll move on from el. honestly, i'm almost done though... mike doesn't really even interact with any other girls on the show that aren't adults and/or related to him. unless i missed something, the only other girl mike actually interacts with is max.

and istg they are the most platonic just look at them

but seriously, max's whole introduction into the show was primarily contrasting dustin and lucas' positive reaction to her with mike's negative/indifferent one. mike is a complex character with lots of little feelings, but i agree with most of the analysis i've seen about this: mike resents max's presence initially because it reminds him that he doesn't actually like girls in the way that his friends do, that what he has with el is not the same sort of first crush romance that he wants to pretend it is, the kind his friends are actually experiencing now. he sees max, and he sees the way dustin and lucas look at max and... he doesn't get it.

he doesn't like el (his love interest and girlfriend) he doesn't like max, (the only other girl his age he's even been on screen with), he's never shown interest in talking about, looking at, or pursuing any other girls. but... he is in love with his boy best friend. he did smile incredibly dreamily at eddie in the cafeteria. he does have more than one poster of a buff shirtless man on his bedroom wall.

i don't want to go on a bunch of tangents about minute details so i'll end the actual analysis here. i think those are the most important and relevant points. if you've read this far i appreciate you.

here's a couple more random things i consider gay mike subtext

the way his friends react vs the way mike reacts to a girl almost undressing in front of them

self explanatory

you're seeing this, right?

(should i make a post about all the shots of will over mike's shoulder?)

i know this isn't about mike liking boys but. look at him.

mike wheeler... i know what you are

.........gay

[ot3]

While I see where you're coming from, isn't it a bit dangerous to police queer folks' language to appease possible assaulters? Also, "lesbian" used to simply be a term referring to "women who love other women" until it started being policed by biphobic radical feminists in the 70s-80s. Bisexual women don't have their own words and history separate from homosexual women, and excluding them from the history contained in the words lesbian, dyke, and such feels a bit cruel.

(Feel free to compleyely ignore this, I don't mean to be a bother but this is just a bit important to me)

I'm not going to stop anyone from calling themselves a bi lesbian or anything like that. I don't care if bi women call themselves dykes. At the end of the day I am pretty much wholly unconcerned with what words people use for themselves and it's never gonna be something that causes me to treat someone poorly or disregard their opinion. But that said I don't think it's policing anyone's language to ask them to at the very least think about the larger societal implications of any language shifts they're pushing for.

My personal stance here is that it would be very harmful to no longer have any commonly recognized terminology that women can use to identify themselves as romantically and sexually uninterested in men. A lot of people feel drawn to the lesbian identity specifically because of this exclusion of men. There's already so much pushing from outside the lgbt community to make lesbians sexually available to men. Can you at least understand why I think it might be dangerous for intra-lgbt identity politics to shift the current perception of lesbianism to include hetero attraction? Can you see why the loss of the only word women have to actively exclude men from their romantic and sexual lives would be a setback for feminism?

this comes back to what I was saying last night about political identity vs personal identity. I'm much more concerned with labels in terms of how they allow us to navigate larger society and less interested in what makes any individual person feel right. If you feel good about the words you use for yourself, cool. I'm genuinely happy for you. Once again, a disagreement on terminology is never gonna be my reason for dismissing someone. But the language we use for ourselves does not exist in a vacuum and I at least want people to consider the political implications of the way they choose to use their words.

[bisexualpositivity]

I'm a teen, and I've only had crushes on guys before but recently I think I might have started crushing a little on my online friend, who is a trans girl. I'm sort of panicking about all this, the feelings as well as the real tangible possibility that I'm bi. I'm also worried I possibly, subconsciously see her as a guy, and that that's why I'm crushing on her. do online crushes even count? it's so confusing for me right now

Hey--I want to reassure you that you're not the only one wrestling with these thoughts, feelings and questions. One of the more wholesome stories on reddit tackles a similar issue, I'll link it here for you to read.

As someone who's genderqueer and on the aroace spectrum, I think I'm pretty qualified to say that attraction can be murky sometimes. I've met people who are initially attracted to a stranger, and then lose some or all of that attraction when they find out said stranger isn't one of the genders they'd be interested in dating. I've talked with people who thought they were 100% attracted to only one gender and then met someone of a different gender who completely changed the way they view their orientation. Hell, I know people whose preferences transcend labels entirely.

I also want to point out that there's a difference between finding traits we associate with masculinity (muscles, facial hair, lower pitched voices, etc.) or femininity (curves, long hair, higher pitched voices, etc.) attractive VS finding men or women attractive. A straight man might find himself admiring the elegance of the way a masculine-presenting individual walks, a straight woman might find a butch lesbian's biceps extremely attractive, vice versa for anyone of any sexuality that is more likely to exclude one or more genders. That doesn't invalidate the way they personally identify.

What I'm trying to say is, navigating the world of online crushes as a teen is difficult enough without the added pressure put on questioning people AND a young cis ally's concerns about navigating the transphobia and cissexism they've internalized.

While it's possible that some part of you does think of your friend as a guy, it's clear to me from your language that you're making a conscious effort to respect her identity and encourage others to do the same, and honestly? That matters more than any subconscious biases you might have.

So let me give you a reminder to help stave off those mean little wormy thoughts: you're not hurting anyone by trying to untangle your own identity--and any stereotypes you've been taught about "what makes someone a man/woman"--up in your head, or by reaching out for help and advice.

(I hope this doesn't sound condescending, but I'm genuinely proud of you for putting yourself out there and actively doing the work to make sure you're being kind to others. Please feel free to drop an ask in our inbox anytime 💜)

[kdinjenzen]

The "tasteful pinup of trans women" topic has actually been on my mind a lot lately. How is the best way to define it and what is a good example or a bad example? Does it just come down to "moderate to explicit but not overly sexual depictions of women with ranging male elements (including genitals if said pinups are nsfw in nature)" or is it more complicated than that? What is representation vs outright fetishization on that front? As a trans woman myself, should I feel represented, objectified or just insulted when I see a gorgeous pinup of a character that is not explicitly trans but heavily read to be so (example, a character like Samus) being drawn with a feminine body but the implied or explicit depictions of parts one would associate with a male body? I am not asking to try and disagree with you, I believe you are completely on point with your original statement, this just seems like navigating some clouded waters and I have been having my own struggles navigating it, in that I have seen art I think is good representation, but I could blindingly be accepting despite being Fetishization because there is such a drought for the kind of content hoped for

I understand all of your concerns but here’s the thing…

Do you think the fetishization of trans women (specifically) is going to get worse because trans people (or people in general) start drawing tasteful pinups of trans women?

Because it won’t. It will likely stay exactly the same.

What WILL change is the fact that seeing those pieces of art will encourage folks to do more things like that, show others that it’s okay to see trans women as “hot” without objectifying them.

You’re not really going to change the minds of any bigots here, it just isn’t gonna happen. But that’s not what this is about at all.

This is about being “allowed to be seen and allowed to view yourself as attractive” when you’re a trans woman.

Because we, collectively, are pushed by society as a whole to feel “evil and gross” with the way that People Who Are Not Trans Women speak about us.

And here’s my bigger suggestion:

Find actual real canon trans characters in media (they EXIST I assure you) and draw THEM instead of drawing a head canon.

Alternatively… make your own characters! OCs are GREAT! And draw them!

Final note:

Trans women can have bulges.

Trans men can have boobs.

There’s so many reasons why these are valid and should be just as visible as trans women without bulges or trans men without boobs.

Also like… body types are different. Not ever person is going to be “super anime skinny” or “ripped like a body builder” - allow yourselves to actually draw other body types because that factors into this too.

[mytvd]

ok, i'm still watching, i've just gotten very ahead of myself and haven't been keeping track of thoughts for every episode. i don't really want to post out of order so everything's in drafts until i feel the holes in.

i was typing thoughts about a much later episode but this bullet point re: stefan vs damon, which turned into "more reasons i like stefan," got super long, so i wanted to post it on its own:

based on my history of engaging with similar media, i should be on the damon train, and stefan should seem really boring to me. but like, he's not that boring!! and a big part of why he chooses to be good (ie, boring) is because of his history of being a murdering psycho (even though even in ripper mode he wasn't really having fun, as evidenced by his corpse reassembly). maybe it's an age thing and maybe if i had watched this as a teen (i mean, impossible because of it when it aired) i would prefer stefan -- i know i found peeta boring in the books/movies at first, because i wasn't going to like teen drama media for like, thoughtful characters and ptsd healing and stuff -- but at this point in time, lol, i just love seeing his consistent patience, gentleness, and general respect for women on a tv show. a popular mainstream tv show!!! like, he treats not just elena with respect, but all of her friends, even before he gets to know them, and he never "objectifies them until he gets to know them better" as happens a lot in other teen media -- he starts out respecting them from the beginning. sooooo much of the time on tv/in movies, women characters have to be considered hot/attractive (particularly by the men characters) first and foremost to have value, and whatever other qualities they possess are secondary and only valued because their hotness means they deserve a closer look or a chance to prove themselves. i mean, there aren't really any non-hot people around (which really destroys the "southern small town" illusion) to observe this with, lol, but at least on this show, a man in the main cast treats all the women with respect, even when there's no concrete benefit for him to do so, even when no one else (ie, his girlfriend) is watching. he sees something worth getting to know in almost anyone he encounters (which is in line with his journaling habit) and he doesn't see people as expendable, even though their lives are so short compared to his, and he can't really rely on people being in his life long-term. i am honestly kind of surprised stefan has remained so consistent in this way, even as the show continues to brutalize women (of all ages, lol, and elena back-to-back-to-back) and kill them off in spades. like, the writing has obviously gotten worse and worse over time, and stefan has had some poorly-written moments for sure that felt like they bent the universe in order to make the plot more convenient instead of digging deeper to make the story make sense, but on the whole, his character is pretty consistent, and he has the ability to evolve/change (like being unable to be in a relationship with elena, but still being in her life [without being a lil bitch about it, like damon is within moments of their breakup], and still caring about all of her friends/the people that are only in his life because of her). i literally haven't seen paul wesley in anything else so i have no handle on his acting abilities outside of this show (although i think he does a great job on this show), but of course the performance adds a lot, but i mean, unless paul wesley is making script changes on set, lol, it's just kind of interesting how consistent the character has been written [most of the time] compared to other parts of the show.

**note: i'm only on season 5 and also outside of really the one vpd youtube video and princess weekes's excellent confederate vampires vid i really have zero idea what like, popular opinions about these characters are, lol, and i'm trying not to read anything until i'm done with the show

**edit: i'm halfway through season 6 and as soon as he was shown lying to ivy i regretted posting this but he had a good run, especially compared to most of the other characters on this show

[xirae]

Tbh I don't like the way the twink archetype is dealt with in gay circles. I feel like it gets dissed on in general in favor of more masc archetypes, under the guise of like fat-positivity or correcting the dominance of -the- gay archetype that allegedly everyone is attracted but without thinking about the effeminacy dynamics at play or the nuances of how thinness works for guys vs women.

Bc tbh I think "thin privilege" as it exists on the internet is a little more tailored for women than men. It addresses how women are pressured into being stick thin through a variety of social and cultural factors (bc even though many women don't get as much testosterone or w/e, they are pressured very far into how thin they can be), but this means it changes a little for men who don't have to be pushed as far. men very much have thin privilege, but in terms of the ideal masculine male archetype, He is not actually as thin a man he could be. Women are pressed to be so thin because at the end of the day, thinness is treated as a feminine trait. This makes thin privilege a bit different for men, who aren't pressured as much to be thin as much as not-fat. Not-fat isn't always good enough for women, but men are masculine, they build a little bit more muscle mass - so it's actually necessary to fill out a little to show this to be the ideal man. Pure thinness is a "lack" of testosterone - it's soy - so thin is a feminine trait whereas muscular is a masculine trait

Men are encouraged to be muscular, not so much as thin, in comparison to women. This does two things: first, the ideal male body type is not so much a thin guy but a lean-muscular guy or toned guy - where notably, fatness is still juxtaposed against muscle as well as thinness (a gym bro is just as ready as an obnoxious twink to call you fat). Second, guys who are thin after a certain point are seen as being feminine or effeminate (gross, frail, weak - waify). When a guy starts to be thin the way a woman culturally should be, they lose their hold on the male archetype and some of the privileges of hegemonic masculinity.

So like overall I find it really suspect twinks are singled out to rally against when there are plenty of other body types that rake in just as much thin privilege, many with the additional benefit of hegemonic masculinity. Like tbh idk if twinks are respected outside of being sex objects, like I almost want to say they experience hot-girl misogyny - yeah, "hot" with a capacity to be total bitches, but also not respected as persons outside of sex. The consequence of a twink not being attractive is she's some sort of a sissy fag who can't be taken seriously, but w/ muscular guys their physique still yields respect for them. But then there's the elephant in the room - twinks aren't the sole dominant body type! I honestly only know a few guys who are openly like "yeah, I prefer twinks." The rest are extremely into lifter physiques and like most every guy I know is working out to get as close to it as he can. Muscle is easily dominant ime. I don't think twinks struggle sexually, but that shouldn't be the sole rubric for whether an archetype is respected or not. Ppl single it out bc it's not thinness they care about, but rather rejecting effeminacy.

I saw this one guy say something like "I post my ass and get no attention (he got attention) but a twink will post his and get way more likes than me" and it's like ok maybe true I don't want to deny your experience but it's like where is this ire for muscle rats or twunks????? It's bc he identified with muscle and masculinity, and at the end of the day that's what's going on. Gay MEN are going to identify with MASCULINITY, and therefore they go to bat for the muscle against Team Twink. it's not rocket science, it's not malicious, and I often wonder if I'm like internally homophobic for being so critical of gay men and their attractions. They just really seem like the least liberated from sexuality individuals I have ever seen and have no awareness of larger social dynamics and fall for every hot muscular guy they see. But at the same time, it's the same for everyone - when someone identifies with a gay man, it's usually with normal guys or bears (somewhat justified bc they're often fat, but there's a lot of "but's" for another time); it's with the masc groups before the sissies. We live in a world of hegemonic masculinity, it's just what's respected and identified with in general!

[outrunningthedark]

Forgot about the “gay vs. bi” Buddie ~discourse

You mean…the discourse you yourself started up in the fandom not even a week ago? By randomly going on and on about how Tim is definitely going to have Buck be revealed as bi and date Tommy? And now that other people are talking about it and saying yes to it and also discussing the rest of buddie (Eddie) and sexuality your suddenly all Pshhhh couldn’t be me. They aren’t real characters. Their sexuality doesn’t matter. Oof.

Do we have another newbie? This is getting sad.

You know why I call him Bi Buck?

Because people reaaaally don’t like it when you talk about the characters as if they’re not sexually attracted to women (as evidenced by the many years of “Eddie OBVIOUSLY liked sex with Shannon!1!1) and it’s one less thing to delete from my inbox 😛 If anyone thinks he could be gay, that works, too. No one is more “right” in this scenario when the show has (so far) left it open to interpretation.

I don’t give a fuck what either guy is canonically “labeled” in the event that they get in relationships with men (if not each other). I’m willing to bet labels are the least of Tim’s concerns, actually.

[hoyatype]

does anyone else feel insane when they come across women/shaving/feminism discourse? in particular, when any assertion that having to shave one’s legs, pubic hair, etc is an unnecessary beauty standard and women should be FREE of this (my position btw)—

is immediately met w at least one woman saying: no, but i like it and i do it for me. statements like this don’t account for my particular situation where it’s not oppressive, it’s actually joyful! and i’m like…congratulations, you took a systemic analysis and narrowed it to your individual experience in an attempt to delegitimize it…thanks? it’s also deeply suspect that there are just so many women who have all independently and individually articulated a personal preference that conforms to what is normatively encouraged…starts to feel more like an enforced preference than an autonomously chosen one…

oh—and sometimes obscurely urgent reasons (it’s for sensory reasons and deeply important for this person’s neuroatypical existence) are brought into the discussion. i am sure this is sometimes true. but in many cases i also think people are uncomfortable with really facing their personal preferences and realizing that they’re not in alignment with their political inclinations, or uncomfortable having to own up to: well, i don’t have a defensible reason for this! so very often i suspect people are trying to invoke a Good reason that can elide critique…bc it’s uncomfortable to be questioned and reassuring to have a defense that forces people to drop any further questioning…

i genuinely would rather people be honest w themselves and say: i am doing this because i’m afraid of being socially and romantically and sexually penalized. it would feel more candid than having to obscure these behaviors as a personal preference.

and then we could have a real conversation about whether not shaving means that they won’t get the love they want.

personally: i’m not hardcore about this, i shave my legs when i wear shorts and skirts in the summer, but i just don’t agonize about my hair growing out a bit. it’s leg hair, everyone has it! and i’ve never ever ever shaved my pubic hair (sorry to burden anyone following me w this knowledge…) and i really haven’t had issues w this in multiple encounters and relationships with straight men. i am positive it DOES disqualify me for some straight men, but i don’t want to make a good impression on everyone, just an accurate impression of who i am and what my preferences and beliefs are. those guys are free to date women who are committed to spending $$$/month on waxing…i will never be that person and i am happy that no one i’ve loved expected me to be that person.

it’s not a terrible thing for someone to find you unattractive. it’s not the end of the world. it’s not a woman’s purpose to be attractive. and it is truly amazing and heartening that so many people fall in love with others who are not conventionally attractive! who are not dogmatically conforming to all beauty standards! “ugly” people can be loved and respected and cherished and i think that now, in an age of looksmaxxing femcel plastic surgery etc, we should remember this…

it’s funny how much i care about the Shaving Question bc in the grand scheme of things it’s a very small rebellion against beauty norms, but it is one i feel very passionate about and i really don’t understand why so many women are choosing to submit to it, spending significant time and money and effort plucking away all these hairs…especially when so many of these women, from my experience, are also constantly railing against the terrible chokehold that beauty norms and the male gaze have on them. (going to preemptively defuse a common objection here—that it’s different to defy a standard if you’re already very conventionally hot vs not—and note that the women i’ve been most perplexed by in this regard are cis white women who are fairly thin…they’re soooo close to hegemonic feminine beauty already and horribly afraid of losing out on any of it. i do think there’s some argument here that women who are already seen as ugly and unfeminine risk MORE by not conforming to beauty norms. but weirdly it’s woc, fat women, etc who are more likely ime to be the women who intentionally defect and choose their defections carefully. it’s almost like being on the wrong side of beauty standards encourages more criticality of it…)

it is just surprising and maddening to me. like. just don’t shave for 2 more days. or 2 more weeks. genuinely a lot of men do not notice and the ones that hold it against you are providing you with tremendously important insight into their expectations of women. and obviously a lot of women don’t care at all and you can be serenely unshaven together ❤️

i think it’s so important for women to defy feminine beauty/grooming standards sometimes, just for fun, just for practice—and when i say practice i mean it in the highest and most respectful sense: as a way of continually asserting your own agency against the onslaught of expectations for what it means to be a woman, to be “good enough”, to be “beautiful” (not to a specific person but in society’s eyes). i really do think women need to practice resisting beauty standards so that it becomes something possible and natural and even habitual. there is so much suffering present when you can’t escape these norms, and any act of defiance is a way of strengthening you against them imo

[jonesyjonesyjonesy]

ok so this is weird but i felt like you would maybe understand me and i needed to rant. so i'm in my 20s, and i've always been attracted to older men, old rockstars, fictional characters, famous people, you know the stuff. when i was younger it was more normal cause why would i crush on a 16 yr old boy right? i've had a relationship and a few flirts but nothing actually real happened. fast forward to my 20s, i start to actually have feeling for people in my age group. but anytime i have the massive crush on someone i can never get them to crush on me back. and i'm like, social, have hobbies - you know, i'm not like i'm isolating myself from people. i don't know how to say this without sounding weird but i don't think i'm particularly unattractive either. i mean i'm no VS model but you don't need to be that to experience love, right? each time i get my hopes high up about finally my crush/s liking me back it never happens, i get over them and go back to my old ways - obsessively crushing on rockstars and famous people. making playlists and pinterest boards for people i'll probably never even meet in real life. and it makes me feel like such a loser because i'm a grown ass adult. people my age get married and have babies. and i'm not one of those people who believe fandoms are for teens only but at this point it's not even that much about the art for me anymore, it's purely romantic and sexual. i'm pretty certain it's a coping mechanism for the lack of intimacy and sexuality in my life. i've basically wasted my young years without experiencing teenage love and turns out my 20s aren't different either. i feel like i'm the only person in the world who's in this situation and at this point i feel like i'm just not meant to experience romance of any kind. i'll just spend my life yearning for people i'll only get to touch in my dreams and that's it. sorry i just needed to get this off my chest, i hope you're having a good day x

Oh my dear...the 20s are a truly horrible time. I'm in late stage twenties and i'm only starting to really love life. 27 was my turning point.

The great thing about our blorbos is that they'll always love us back even if they don't actually know us. It's the Almost Famous of it all.

The truth is, these obsessions can coexist with our irl romantic life. But I understand the pain of wanting to have that chance at romance and it not feeling like it loves you back.

You're doing great. I bet you're beautiful. And people who are already getting married and having kids, that's their journey. I sometimes get jealous, particularly of women who already have kids because I want to be a mother so badly but I also know I'm not ready.

I'm sure there are people who look at you and think, wow what I would do with all that freedom.

i'm pretty certain it's a coping mechanism for the lack of intimacy and sexuality in my life. i've basically wasted my young years without experiencing teenage love and turns out my 20s aren't different either. i feel like i'm the only person in the world who's in this situation and at this point i feel like i'm just not meant to experience romance of any kind.

I can guarantee you're not the only one feeling this way. There's actually a sociological thing happening where people are avoiding relationships, especially women because now we aren't going to fucking settle for emotionally unintelligent men (assuming you're looking to be in a het relationship).

I am sure people will see this post and be like damn yeah that's me too. I wasn't in my first relationship until I was 22 and that was only a year and a half. I've dated so fucking much on dating apps and been miserable over. I've just gotten into my first relationship in almost five years because I just couldn't suffer fools.

You're stronger than you know. I know how isolating it can feel.

The joke about dating and crushes is you can't use the notion that "insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result". You have to keep that hope alive, have to keep showing up and having an open heart.

I've been rejected so many times. But I've learned over the years actually it's not a me problem. It's a them problem. You are wonderful in so many ways, anon (I just know it). You just haven't found the person that is ready for that. All it takes is one.

Don't give up. My asks are always open. Sweet bean, I love you!

[weirdnaturalscience]

The one time you can find an "evolution of man" poster that depicts a woman it's most likely about that woman becoming a bimbo, and it puts her in heels and all sorts of suggestive and sexual positions. Thanks, google! Love that for us as a species which prides itself on doing ""serious science."" Love that I can't just look for such an innocuous thing (evolution of woman!) without being bombarded with reminders of misogyny. Could people like, pretend to view women as people, or pretend to at least understand that women evolved alongside men and are not just sexual objects? Anyway. Now you're going to hear my rant on this idea of "the dumb slut."

Alright! The phrase "dumb slut" is of course highly misogynistic but it's also fascinating to me. Here's why: with weird accuracy it communicates this belief about human abilities that was popular around the heyday of scientific racism. The extremely racist jist of this belief system is that physicality and intelligence lie on opposite ends of a spectrum. Now, what we know about intelligence nowadays is that it's nothing like this whatsoever and this is bonkers and unscientific in so many ways, but racists dont care about facts and never will, so. Anyway. They held that Black people were too far on the physical end of the spectrum and Asian people were too far on the intellectual end of the spectrum. You see this reflected in racist stereotypes today about Asian men lacking sexuality and the myriad stereotypes that overly sexualize Black women and men, deeming especially Black men as sexually threatening. In this racist worldview, or course, white people are in the middle where everything is just right. How convenient and disgusting.

So where does this leave women? White women, that is, because we're talking about violent racists here. Well, they've gotta underline that these white women are still inferior to white men, so they view them as more animalistic than men. Less evolved, you could even say. The complete lack of a woman on the evolution poster emerging from the mists of time I'm all her homo sapiens glory starts to be a bit more maddening. Women are unimportant, we are reminded. Less intelligent than men. "Dumb."

(Blackwell, a woman and contemporary of Darwin, wrote to him that while his theory of evolution was nice and all, he had forgotten that the females evolved too, alongside the males, or this whole survival of the fittest thing wouldn't work, and isn't that important? ....He assumed she was a man. Also he was too sexist to consider female animals as important.)

So anyway, women have to be sexual but not TOO sexual because a woman in charge of her sexuality is scary and bad. Remember that physicality vs intellect thing? It seems very related to the idea of women on a spectrum from dumb, hot and sexual to smart, unattractive and frigid. I see this stereotype around me constantly, this idea that sexual women are dumber and less attractive women are smarter. It's INSANE! This is insanity! How is this shit still circulating?

Some of it just feels like patriarchal wish fulfillment, also. Smart women can think for themselves and may resist male control. Therefore, let's hope all women interested in sex are not smart!

Question to sexist men: if all the women interested in you are dumb, for the sake of argument, what does that say about you, exactly?

I'd also like to talk about the word slut for a minute. See, here's the thing. Some people want to reclaim the word slut and that's valid but here's my take:

Sluts don't exist. Slut is a word to refer to a woman who likes sex and that's bad. No such woman exists. File not found. Sorry. Like, no. Women who love sex exist. Women who hate sex exist. Women who want to have sex with multiple partners exist. Women who masturbate exist. Women who love sex and that's bad? They don't exist. Why? Because women being sexual isn't bad and never was. I'm so done with this bullshit. I swear to God if I have to even hear the phrase dumb slut ever again... and don't come at me with the whole "no a slut is a woman who cheats" thing. Men will call a woman a slut if she's a FAITHFUL AND WAS JUST A VIRGIN BEFORE HER ONE RELATIONSHIP. OKAY? Cheating is an entirely separate issue, and men who cheat.....not called sluts.

Leaving the discussion of homo sapiens for a minute, females primates love sex, by the way. Female primates maaaaaaaaaay love sex more than male primates at times. Female bonobos rub their clitorises together on average every TWO HOURS. Okay???????? Two HOURS! Are you hearing this? We are very closely related to these animals! Hello! They are having like.... OLYMPIC levels of sex! It's actually really impressive.

I'm sick of this idea that women wanting sex is bad or even rare! The only reason people think women have lower sex drives than men is the SHAME WE ATTACH TO FEMALE SEXUALITY! Add a dash of the threat of considerable violence against women in many cultures across the world and the pervasive lack of birth control options and here we are. Meanwhile our close female primate relatives are perfectly happy initiating sex, having gay sex, rubbing their clitorises on males, screaming until they attract male attention...you name it, they've done it and honestly, you go girls.

Female primates get oral sex from males. Female BATS get oral sex from males, but that's less relevant.

Sluts don't exist. Dumb sluts doubly so. If being a slut were even possible it would definitely not be a dumb course of action, you dumb mother FUCKERS. Listen: compared to other primates homo sapiens have like INSANE amounts of sex. Like our time would have been better spent foraging for food. EXCEPT there were reasons for this insane amount of sex: inciting male-male competition (this is public sex need I remind you), sex as courtship, a way of females to assess male fitness directly (stamina), female access to males, not to mention more complex social and hierarchical reasons, because primates are nothing if not constantly creating complex social systems to compete within.

Ever notice how we NEVER linguistically associate sexuality with stupidity in men? Yeah because we don't. We praise sexuality in men and associate wit with attributes like drive and determination, even creativity. We're never like look at that dumb slut trying to talk to women at the bar. Look at that dumb slut, he wants to get laid, after which he will become even dumber. Yet it feels like everywhere is this narrative of the hot woman with the "empty head," even the idea that fucking is going to make women stupider!!!!!! (Do you guys have brain damage? Are you for REAL right now? Do you believe like some medieval peasant who never bathes that the thoughts are being sucked straight out of a woman's brain through her clitoris? Please stop immediately and never speak again.)

The take home message is this!!!!!!! Not to discount that asexuality exists and is 100% normal and natural, our species BY AND LARGE is kind of nymphomaniac and that's okay too. We've somehow convinced everyone that human women are less sexual than human men???? and then when women protest because they want to get laid we're like YOU HORRIBLE SLUT! Just to add insult to injury we call back into play this idea that sexuality and intelligence oppose each other. Which, again, has no basis in fact, but does have a basis in soundly debunked racist dog shit.

Sluts don't exist. "Dumb slut" is a phrase that makes misogynistic ideas all too apparent in their ugliness: lies about female inferiority, lies about female sexuality, sexist mens' wish-fulfillment about a sexual but controllable woman.

You know what women did not evolve for? This shit.

[inchidentally]

some of my trickier asks or things I want to keep out of the tags

[link was a twitter post saying they wanted to get rid of Oscar to have car|ando back together at McLaren]

AFASFGHLASHFL babe even as a car|ando person I have to let you vent that out because that is possibly the most cringe thing I have seen since maybe 2016. I am fully expecting DTS to do another segment on car|ando and frame it so that McLaren and Lando want Oscar to leave because he doesn't touch Lando enough on camera or use nonstop gay innuendo. forget teammates valuing respect for each other and piling up McLaren's hardware cabinet, why oh why won't Oscar tackle Lando to the ground or talk about dicks and balls with him for fancams 😭

sorry anon I'm just cutting off that last part bc I don't want to attract any discourse about it to my blog <3 but yeah I honestly find it baffling that car|ando ended up being the larry ship for F1 fandom when Carlos of his own volition chose to leave after one season?? if they were real life a couple and wanting sex all the time surely staying on the same team would make sense and that he wouldn't go to Ferrari and immediately start acting more like a besotted, handsy husband with Charles than he ever did with Lando yet no one thinks they're secretly married. why didn't he do like Daniel and stick it out with McLaren even during bad times to stay with Lando if real life couple

and straight up they're not only disregarding everything that Oscar has brought to McLaren and promises for the future ! they're deciding that Pato is disposable too. I say this as a semi fake fan but even I wouldn't base my predictions about contract negotiations on rpf.

<3 thankfully it isn't all of us car|ando people who go too far but it feels like the other side are getting louder and louder

honestly I can boil my two main issues with the car|andoisreal brigade to three points:

misogyny and publicly targeted hate toward their real life girlfriends who they actually do have sex with/have romantic feelings for and who they openly choose to be around at the exclusion of their sports bromance friend

this particular brand of car|ando revolving entirely around Lando being conveniently stripped of a personality apart from giggling so he can be handy insert for women desperate to have Carlos for themselves

bringing 1D shipping into yet another new fandom and basically rinse and repeat with Carlos and Lando's names inserted in the [namexname] box

I know that a lot of us car|ando folks are nothing to do w this garbage and the good thing is that usually these people take themselves out either by pissing off the men involved in the ship or getting bored waiting for their fake ship to "become canon" finding a new rpf ship to latch onto.

oh and I do know that the person who made the office meme about Lando saying the podium thing intended it solely as a joke but it found the Other Side real fast and they genuinely put it in their dossiers of car|ando vs |andoscar. which I don't get for many reasons but also if they think Carlos and Lando are in a secret gay relationship and Lando doesn't even like Oscar then why the need to keep going seeee seeeeee he loves Carlos not Oscarrrrr aslfhsalfhslahf jesus christ why am I even trying to rationalize this

thing is I don't want any more of this on my blog or in our part of fandom so I'm going to limit how much of any asks I'll answer about it. I don't at all mind if people need to vent but jsyk I might not always post it publicly.

I'd recommend blocking and not engaging with it to everyone else too. I might curb how much car|ando is on my blog for a while just because it's so embarrassing to be associated with the grown ass women stalking Rebecca/Carlos content and flooding it with car|ando comments.

[quinloki]

Aaaaaaa our self ships?!?!?

I ship with Buggy and Shanks, because how could I not be head over heels for them? And I just love the height difference, me 5'5, Buggy 6'3, Shanks 6'6.... They're giants compared to the tiny powerhouse that is my s/i.

And Addie Santine, my most beloved s/i. She's free spirited, doing what she wants when she wants, who grew up with a whole lot of trauma before heading out to become a pirate at the ripe old age of 12. And as an adult is infamous, known as the Siren for being able to lure men (and certain women) with seduction and flirtation for her own personal goals. But also not to be taken lightly because she's known for a reason, and feared as dangerous and will go from being fun loving to willing to attack at a pin drop if someone presses her buttons (much more often occurring in my ship with Buggy).

With Buggy the two of them met with her saving his life (because he's Buggy) from another crew that was getting close to killing him wanting to join his crew, because with the two of their reputations they could stand to get whatever they wanted. And I mean, hot, deadly pirate lady wants to join him? Buggy's in. They don't get together for a while though once she has, instead they're pining for each other (completely obvious to everyone else) with Addie due to her past trauma with relationships and men, and Buggy thinking they couldn't possibly be interested in him with his rock bottom self esteem. But once they do my god, they're the Destruction Duo. And Addie? Don't you dare lay a hand on the clown.

And Shanks? Dashing, handsome, kind hearted Shanks? The two of them are instantly attracted to each other and often run into each other, flirting outrageously and having a deep respect for each other despite their differing views on handling conflict, with Shanks understanding Addie does what she does for her survival, and the fact that she's a much more reasonable person when she's around him. He loves her for her wildness, her love for freedom and that under the coldness and violence she's loving and kind. And Addie fell for him because he's the first person who was able to see her for who she is, and when she realises she likes being soft and gentler because he helps her be the person she wants to be. Though it still takes a whole lot of time with the flirting building up for Addie to accept her feelings for him and the fact that he returns them thinking that she doesn't deserve it because of the things she's done. But once they do get together omg, power couple!

Thank you for sharing! I love the subtle differences between how things go with Buggy vs how they go with Shanks. I love the gremlin vibes and the flirting and the explosions XD

Sometimes we just need someone to actually SEE us and that's enough for us to start to see ourselves, and there's a vibe of that in this I really like. ^_^ And like, YOU get to be the pirate, a little scourge of the high seas, for yourself, as a treat \o/

It's fantastic! I read this a couple times before I could even reply to it cause you just painted such a great picture =3 the passion's there!

Do you have anything written or drawn for Addie? I'd love to read up on her or see her ☆*: .｡. o(≧▽≦)o .｡.:*☆

Tell me about your self-ships!