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angeltrapz · 3 years

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oosdkk dude im sorry ur mood dropped too.. i hope u feel better soon <3 but like i wld love 2 hear more abt ur thoughts on Art in general bc Boy Is He Interesting, and also a lil more abt Daniel coming out as nonbinary to his dad (whether he knows Eric is trans or not at that moment skjdfhdskf)! + if ur feelin it just more abt Mallick in general ESP cuz we agree that Brit doesn't make it thru V

djhfjdks thank u sm <3

okay Art first. I genuinely wonder abt him so much, something in specific I think abt is that aside frm Amanda (+ Eric, obviously, but talkin abt disciples) Art is one of the only trap victims EVER 2 be tested twice and it’s like... what’s that abt? Why? as u’ve said b4 it rly depends on how you personally view his character: whether he’s a disciple or not. fr me, both options are equally plausible, n honestly I don’t rly confine myself to either; it sorta depends on what I’m feeling/writing. if we’re talking abt art being a disciple, then the Spinecutter not going off (one of my BIGGEST questions) makes total sense, as Hoffman’s side of the trap was never set up to work either, + Jigsaw disciples have a history (aside from Lawrence) of appearing as victims in other tests/traps. if he were not just another pawn and was in fact a disciple himself, then the Spinecutter was never meant to go off - it was there just to make Eric think it COULD go off/make it look convincing to outsiders. which brings me to ANOTHER question: what does Art know abt Eric? does he know anything? what does he think of Eric?

(lil side note: if Art is a disciple, then I kinda wonder if it’s a lil bit of a Hoffman + Lawrence situation where Hoffman didn’t know abt Art either? just bc he looks so shocked when he sees Art’s face fully fr the first time... that could’ve just been acting on Hoffman’s part but IDK. food fr thought)

personally, I feel like Art probably does know a lil bit abt Eric - at the very least, he’d know tht Eric had been previously tested + failed by John’s rules, but then I feel that he wld also know Eric didn’t rly have a chance in his second test. that is why Art trying so fucking hard to keep Eric alive is interesting 2 me: what is his motivation 2 do that? like he’s been told Eric’s basically just there to get Rigg to participate, he doesn’t have any personal obligation or anything like that. sure, the aim is to keep Eric alive + see if Rigg can pass his “test,” but nobody said anything about grabbing a man you barely know around his ankles to keep him frm hanging himself w a noose made of chains. nobody said anything abt speaking to him so softly, not even raising your voice beyond saying “hey,” and asking him do you understand? when you tell him to keep still and prevent him frm killing his counterpart (which, if Art is a disciple, he knows it won’t, but he still speaks to Eric so softly, so compassionately, doesn’t he?)

nobody said anything abt grabbing him around the waist and steadying him again after being punched by said man. but Art does that. he stabilizes Eric’s feet on the ice as best he can and he keeps his hips straight and he basically says “look, we’re all stuck here, you need to keep it together ‘til that clock counts down if you want us to live, but I’m giving you a choice,” and he presses the gun w the single bullet into Eric’s hands and tells him it’s up to him. nobody said Art had to care but he does, I think, and it’s just like. he really didn’t have to keep Eric alive over the course of Rigg’s test. he didn’t. but he did and I just,, where does it come from? why does he care? this is even going beyond the fact that we’ve talked abt them being together after their test in a scenario where they both survive - I just think that Art at his core is a very stubborn but very compassionate person, whether he wants 2 be or not. like he HAS to know that kind of involvement cld prove to be extremely detrimental but he cares. I feel like that says a lot abt him (even if he does call Eric an asshole a couple times while doing it,,).

plus I also just. I think his reason for being tested (as it seems to be in most cases) is extremely flimsy. he was doing his job. he’s a LAWYER. often times it has nothing 2 do w personal feelings; they’re there to do their job and sometimes, unfortunately, that is defending possibly reprehensible people (in cases like Rex’s & Ivan’s). + John was already upset w him regarding their argument abt the urban renewal group so like it just feels So Very Petty, y’know?? even in the scenario where he IS a disciple, testing him twice seems entirely like John having a personal vendetta against him. Amanda is the only other person to be tested twice aside from Eric, so like. what. is that abt Mr. Kramer.

like I’ve said b4 in dms one could argue that Art is grey morally, bc we never rly see anything of him outside of flashbacks + acting as a test controller in IV, esp given that he... rly doesn’t seem too bothered abt it all? which is fair. but I also feel like the concern he shows towards Eric is smth to be considered as well.

+ YESS NONBINARY DANIEL I know I’ve mentioned it b4 but for reference, I read Daniel as masc nonbinary (he/they)! so I feel like Daniel wld b pretty comfortable w his identity, he’s never rly had a reason not to be (it’s rly anyone’s guess here tho bc we never see Eric + Daniel + Kate... as a family unit, for obvious reasons), so I feel like he’s vry chill abt it? and in the scenario where Eric survives n is dating Adam, I feel like Daniel wld talk 2 him abt it first (Adam is an adult they quickly come to trust + he’s vocal abt being trans himself so there’s that added layer of understanding - other than his mom maybe Adam might b the first person they come out 2). they’re just kinda like “so I wanna tell my dad I’m nonbinary but like I’ve literally never thought abt coming out what do I do” and Adam’s just like. Aha. bc he knows Eric is Also Trans so like, he doesn’t tell Daniel that bc it’s not his info to share, but he’s definitely like “oh it’ll totally be fine. trust me you have no reason to worry” so Daniel’s just like Okay. I Got This

+ I know I mentioned this in dms but Daniel wld absolutely wear those floral ripped hem skirts over jeans, so I feel like on one of his visits to his dad’s, he just. wears that combined w a completely random niche graphic tee he bought when shopping w Adam (I adore this hc n I am Holding Onto It) n is just like. not super open abt it bc he doesn’t know what to expect? he just kinda waits fr Eric to comment on it but when he doesn’t, Daniel gets nervous n is like “do I look okay?” and Eric’s rly chill abt it, like “yeah! it looks vry cool, vry alternative.” n like Daniel is relieved, of course, but also he’s just like God Pls Say Something so he just comes out w it like “okay this is not working. I’m nonbinary.”

and he’s COMPLETELY SHOCKED when Eric is just like “oh why didn’t u say so? do u have a different name u wanna go by? is Daniel still okay?” bc he wasn’t sure how much Eric knew, so he’s just like “uh no Daniel is still good, he/they pronouns though” and Eric’s just like alright cool but internally Daniel’s just like ??????

n THAT is when Eric asks him 2 come sit out on th front steps w him n is just like. “I don’t think I ever told u this but I’m trans. I transitioned during training in my early 20s” n Daniel is nodding while internally he’s like Adam I’m gonna throttle u. he worked himself up fr NOTHING. he just kinda laughs abt it and Eric is like “are u good?” ‘cause he’s a lil worried but then Daniel just smiles and is like “yeah I’m fine! just realizing I had nothing 2 be worried abt” and it’s a rly good moment fr them. they sit out there together talking abt their experiences for quite a while n at some point Adam steps outside 2 find them deep in conversation + he just smiles n goes back inside bc he cares abt them both so much and seeing them talk like that makes him so 💞💞 (Eric is SO PROUD u can see it on his face)

ohhh gosh Mallick,,, I spend a lot of time thinking abt him actually. he’s just one of those characters I feel vry connected to (me 🤝 Mallick: Ambiguous Disorder 💕) n one I got surprisingly attached to? hello (he IS one of my f/os)

I feel like Mallick is a very lonely person at his core. the way he sort of clings to Brit (w out the whole like. adrenaline of being in very very real danger w ppl trying to kill u SEVERAL TIMES) somewhat confirms this fr me. this is someone who has no reason to look out fr him, no reason to keep protecting him when their fellow captives hit him over th head w a club or attempt to push him into a bathtub to ELECTROCUTE him, but she keeps doing it and he’s just. in awe of it a little bit? ‘cause she could just let Charles knock him tf out or let Luba push him in but she fights for him, some1 she has no obligation to n met fr the first time literally when they woke up.

the moment they share b4 they stick their arms into the saws to activate the 10 Pints of Sacrifice is so very vulnerable and maybe even a little tender. yes he calls her a monster, yes she calls him one back, neither of them deny it. it’s an admission and an acceptance. they’re monsters, sure, fine, okay. but they are monsters and they are in this together. Brit tells Mallick it’s okay when he says he can’t do this alone. she says okay, okay, it’s okay, we’ll go together. and they help each other secure their tourniquets and they stick their hands in together bc it’s the two of them, literally hand in hand, fighting for their lives n for each other n they’re in so so much pain but they are doing it TOGETHER. I lose it thinking abt it!!! they even have a head bonk moment!!! I very much feel like it has some cinematic parallels to Adam & Lawrence’s moment in SAW 2004!!!!

+ as u mentioned, we both share the thought that Brit likely died since she wasn’t present at Bobby’s meetings, and. I want to touch on how fucking despondent and lost Mallick looks when we see him again in 3D. lights on but no one’s home. I feel like for Mallick, losing Brit was losing the first chance at a real connection he’s had in god knows how long - and for him, that’s just very shattering. he’s been thru hell, he’s watched three people die right in front of him, he sawed his ARM IN HALF, n the person he went through all of that with didn’t make it. but he did. and I feel like for Mallick that’s just like... he doesn’t understand it. but he feels even lonelier than he ever has b4 because the One Person who was there w him thru it all, the one person who could ever possibly understand what happened that night, is gone.

the Mallick we see in V would NEVER sit down n willingly listen to Bobby Dagen’s bullshit abt loving yr scars n taking pride in the fact u survived. he wld hate that man with a passion n I am very much sure of this. the fact that he’s sitting in that chair looking numb and glassy-eyed and silent? Mallick is trying to find some1 to connect to, find a place where maybe he belongs. trying to fill that hole that losing Brit made. why else wld he be sitting there, listening to someone he would ordinarily tell to shove his self-love bullshit up his ass? he’s lost. he’s just trying to keep his head above water and find a way to shore even though everything in him is fighting not to. he’s adrift without her.

+ ALTERNATIVELY, bc the reality of that is just. crushing n maybe not where I needed 2 go, in the scenario where Brit survived + just doesn’t want to put up w Bobby’s bullshit, I imagine them to actually move in together after a lil bit of time getting 2 know each other better w out the pressure of “oh god we’re gonna die.” she kinda helps him build up a sense of self-worth bc GOD it’s practically non-existent n thinking abt possible reasons why makes me sad. she’s definitely just like “no, you do deserve to be cared for and you deserve help when you need it, you deserve good things n to be happy.” she just kinds shuts it down while still making sure to talk 2 him abt WHY he feels that way (she’s not dismissing, but she’s trying to nip it in th bud) n Mallick is just like. huh. bc no one’s really done that fr him before. but it rly does end up helping in the long run, even if it is a very slow pace toward actually getting 2 a place where he recognizes his own worth + realizes he deserves all the things he wants Brit 2 have too. they’re there for each other thru thick n thin and if they made it thru their game, they can make it thru anything.

#saw #art #daniel #eric #adam #mallick #brit #thank u so much I rly appreciated this #n it helped me get my mind off things a little #I'm rly glad my ask helped u too!!! mutual support hours #long post #thoughts separated by dashes bc I had Way More than I thought I did oops #asks

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bi-lesbian · 4 years

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how should I go about being a good ally to bi lesbians? as someone who has also had my identity heavily scrutinized by other queer people it breaks my heart to see people give bi lesbians a hard time, but I find myself at a loss for words when it comes to explaining why people should be allowed to describe their experiences how they please. What would you recommend saying when someone I know is displaying a distaste for bi lesbians?

first off i wanna thank you for wanting to support us by trying to do this sorta thing ♡♡♡ i defintely feel that, its very hard to have an in-the-moment thought on how to explain things to people when theyre against certain identities- and honestly im not even quite sure what to say for you to say to them, bc theres just so much information about the identity to describe all of the specifications and history and why people like the identity... id say the best bet may be to point them to my blog and check out my #explanation tag? bc its full of a lot of posts from me and others explaining all sorts of things about the label, and in detail! but for Some things you could specifically point out:

the lesbian label never always meant women exclusively attracted to women, bi women always belonged under the label and was part of the lesbian community until terfs, biphobes, and political lesbians forced them out of it and tried to erase the shared history between bi women and lesbians. a good post to point to for this would be this one by @star-anise, and it has a lot of sources.

blaming women for mens shitty thoughts and actions towards other women is never okay. bi lesbians can not be blamed for corrective rape of lesbians and the idea that lesbians secretly like men. its harmful to ever take any of the blame away from the men actually doing and thinking these things and put it onto other people, and is just a waste of time and energy. i have some posts talking more about this in my #explanation tag too.

theres a lot of ways the label can be used, and this is one point thatd be good to point them to my explanation tag, or to some specific posts in it (esp for any where i have several example ways listed out). itd also be good to note that:

anybody who can fall under any of the ways people use the label does not have to be a bi lesbian, its simply a label that comes down to preference in how people want to call their own identity. nobody is ever "actually" bi, lesbian, or bi lesbian- its up to the individual to decide for themselves.

bi lesbian doesnt simply mean "bi with a preference to women." it can mean that for some, but theres so many reasons for why people use the label and it absolutely can not be summarized by this.

bi lesbian doesnt mean that lesbian alone doesnt inlude nb people, some lesbians simply are also attached to the bi label as it describes their attraction for liking multiple genders (girls and enbies). anybody with an identity like this can identify as either bi lesbian or just bi or lesbian.

bi lesbian was not created by terfs, bc bi lesbian was a thing that always existed and was actively tried to be erased by terfs. also can source to star-anises post i linked above. and bi lesbian does not mean "liking cis women and trans women" bc thats a thing that terfs made up bc they hate bi lesbianism, they just want to try to ruin the rep of the label to further keep lesbian exclusionary.

i think those would be some good few points to talk about! these address a lot of things people tend to say against the identity, and sorry i dont have many posts linked to go to, i just am a bit exhausted atm! but i hope this helps!! and thank you so so much for backing up bi lesbians, it means so much to me ♡♡♡♡♡ just remember to not push urself too much defending things when you dont have the energy!! ik it can be very draining!

#bi lesbiask #bi lesbian #explanation

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blakelywintersfield · 4 years

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Help! Part one: Backstory- when I was a kid I saw love triangles & thought well why can't they just all date bc i was a kid & didn't understand polyamoury so my parents told me that polyamoury is no longer acceptable in today's society. So I grew up in a monogamous society & believed that polyamoury was non existent. Then I thought it was wrong, or at least unhealthy. Then I believed that triangle romances were ok but not Vs or open relationships but I still disliked polyam as an idea

I disliked polyamoury as an idea & didnt support that lifestyle but if any1 hated on my polyams I would defend em. Now Im ~accepting/supportive of polyam bc if they communicate (like any relationship) then itll turn out fine (if all parties are poly, that is.) example- i had a friend whos strictly mono but he dated a poly guy who was abusive& treated my friend like a sidechick. When they broke up my friend put his mono ass into another poly romance &bc of his trauma & bpd he was toxic & trying to make his bf mono & felt like he was the sidechick again despite his bf treating both of His bfs equally. & he also had a bad experience with polyamoury so he knew how my friend felt. (Communication is important) Present day- so here comes my issue. I think I might be poly. But I suck at communication & I seem to have internalized issues & polyphobia & I'm not sure whether I "believe" in it or not. Idk what to do & I don't think my parents would approve esp since I don't even approve. What if it's just romanticized or fetishized & I'm not actually poly? I don't want to be poly. I wish society didn't frown upon it bc thst might help. So here I am, a 17yo on Tumblr, asking an older queer for help.

Hi hun! Hopefully, I’m not getting back to you too late on this; sorry it took me a minute to respond!

Firstly, I want you to know that no matter what you turn out to be -- monogamous or polyamorous -- that the way you love isn't unhealthy. Neither type of relationship structure is better than the other; it purely depends on how you feel during it. I know it may be hard to accept something that you were raised to see as immoral or wrong; believe it or not, I was raised extremely homophobic and transphobic, and accepting I was queer and trans was a big shift for me. Hell, I just came to terms with being grey-aromatic -- and that one was hard as hell, because well. I do like romantic relationships. I love that closeness, that bond. Accepting that it was rare as hell for me to feel that towards anyone else was really tough, but it was also liberating. I realized, wow, I wasn't broken because I couldn't romantically connect with others that had mutual interest in me; it's just my romantic orientation. The same may go for you -- if you end up being polyamorous, accepting it can really free you of guilt you may have felt in the past for having a crush on two people and wanting to date them both, because there's nothing wrong with wanting that.

I'm personally monogamous. I know I am because of a few reasons -- I'm worn out very easily by social situations, and even friendships are hard for me to manage just because my social battery is really low. I don't think I have the social stamina to keep up with multiple partners, and I would hate to neglect one or more of my partners, or make them feel unwanted / unloved. I'm a solitary person by nature. And that's okay! I also do have issues feeling insecure, and while I am working on that, I don't think it would personally be healthy for me if I had a partner who was polyamorous, because I'd worry they would get bored of me / leave me for the other. Which is unrealistic -- in a healthy polyamorous relationship, this wouldn't be an issue, but I know my anxiety and relationship insecurity is bad enough that it would put a polyamorous partner through too much stress. Being on the aromantic spectrum too, I just don't know how likely it'd be for me to find a partner, let alone multiple, so that's a personal factor for me, but besides that, my reason for being monogamous are based on how I know myself to be in romantic partnerships.

One of my best friends is polyamorous. One of her biggest reasons is because she feels the need for a support system that goes past friendship -- partners that could live with her, help her raise a family, make sure she stays safe (she has some physical and emotional/mental issues). It makes her feel more secure to know she has multiple people looking out for her, and makes her feel like she's not putting too much stress on one person. The distribution of responsibility makes her feel much more comfortable than having one person take it all on. In a sense, the reason I'm monogamous is the same reason she's polyamorous -- a feeling of security.

Regardless of what kind of relationship you have, it should make you feel secure. Obviously we all have our moments -- as someone with BPD, I have times where I'm insecure just about my friendships, and even my relationship with my parents. Sometimes we all feel insecure, but if it's a constant feeling and it can't be taken care of with reassurance, then you may want to reconsider the relationship -- be it monogamous or polyamorous. Think about your expectations from a relationship; what would you want the outcome to be? If you had multiple partners, what would that look like long-term for you? This should be based purely off what you want / need -- not based off what others may think of you or what negative ideas others might get, because at the end of the day, those who don't support a healthy path to happiness don't have opinions you should judge off of.

There's also different types of polyamorous relationships, and from what I know, most polyamorous people tend to have a relationship set they prefer -- for example, you mentioned open relationships. That's a type of polyamory where, usually, a couple may have another partner / multiple partners, and their position could be anything from a partner to a friend with benefits; the couple usually sets the boundaries on what they expect (i.e. "you can sleep with other people, but I want us to stay the main couple") and then they explain those boundaries to anyone they may wish to engage with. It may seem strange that a couple committed to each other would sleep with other people, but there's a variety of reasons, ranging from kinks to sexual needs to libido (i.e. a couple with a sex-replused asexual who is comfortable with their partner having responsible / safe sex with other people to satisfy their sexual needs). Some people who have needs like my best friend may benefit from Vs; where one person has two partners, but those partners don't date each other. That doesn't mean they're not aware of each other -- that's NOT polyamory, that's cheating. As you said, polyamory takes communication, and without that, it's not healthy polyamory. There's also Triads (three people all dating each other), Fluid Chains (these tend to end up being two people already in polyamorous couples that start dating each other), and much more! I'd say the judgement of you needs and expectations in a relationship should help you decide what type of relationship you'd want.

As you brought up, there's always a risk of getting into a polyamorous relationship that ends up toxic, but that risk is just as likely as ending up in a toxic monogamous relationship -- neither relationship type is "more prone" to toxicity. I'm very sorry your friend dealt with it firsthand, especially because the first experience being a toxic one can make it very hard to get past that trauma. Getting out of any kind of toxic relatinship can leave you with some trust issues and things to work out; it's just as toxic to force a polyamorous person to be monogamous as it is for a monogamous person to be polyamorous. If you're not comfortable with a certain relationship style, you shouldn't force yourself to comform to someone else's, and vice versa.

I know in the recent years, with polyamory starting to become more talked about, understood, and accepted, that it may seem like it really is the perfect way to date. And for some, it is! For others, not so much. I really recommend making a list of your expectations out of a relationship (as I said before), because that may help you clear up whether or not it's just been romanticized to you, or if you may actually be polyamorous yourself. If possible, maybe try finding some local polyamory support groups / meetups, and seeing if you can find other people who are also questioning whether they're mono or poly -- sometimes what helps is talking to others who have questions, because they may also have answers. It may also end up benefitting you because if you end up dating someone else who isn't sure but is open to trying, you can both safely explore that type of relationship without risking the other not being open to polyamory. Since you are 17, I would highly suggest finding groups geared towards those under 21, because regardless of relationship orientation, an older person persuing you is not okay. Anyone involved in your relationship should be around your age, even if you're not directly dating them.

Sorry if this was a little mixed around, if you need to ask for clarifications on anything, or have any other questions, please feel free to ask! Good luck hun! <3

#long post #anon

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spockandawe · 7 years

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So you’ve heard Spock is the actual literal devil

Have you heard that I’m a terrible person? A plagiarist? Have you been told that I’m only into transformers at all because I wanted to make this one random guy unhappy? If you’ve been told that, you’ve probably also been told that a year and a half later, I’m still making fanworks just to upset him. You might have even heard that shhhh, don’t disagree with Spock on anything, or they’ll hunt you down and harass you.

Right, okay. This is one hell of a saga that I will attempt to tell in as compressed a form as possible. It’s a lot. Years ago, back in HS, there was this one guy who policed the hell out of one of the character tags. I’m going to call him C. He’d pressure people not to make the content they were making, decry the hateful people reading with a malicious eye who thought the character would ever do anything bad (the character was a creep). And because being obnoxious wasn’t bad enough, if you didn’t cave to his demands, he just might do things like start whisper campaigns about how you support rape, casually out you as a survivor, cute little things like that.

This is not a story about that guy.

This is a story about C’s one-time attack dog, eventual boyfriend, and current ex. We’ll go ahead and call him R. I’ve tried real hard to avoid namedropping on my blog before, but could people find him from this? Probably. Have I stopped caring? Absolutely.

TL;DR, unsubstantiated accusations of serial harassment are a little questionable when they’re coming from someone with a years-long, extensively documented history of serial harassment and a personal grudge against me.

Cut for length.

Edit 7/2/2017: R has posted that he regrets making these posts about me, and admits that he said things that were out of line. And he’s stated that he’s going to try to do better in the future. I genuinely, truly appreciate that. I’m leaving this post up because there have been lies about me floating around for a while and I reserve the right to defend myself, but I really do appreciate that.

Oh balls, none of this makes sense without backstory (I’m so sorry)

If you think I suck or my work sucks, that’s fine! You do you, go enjoy the things that make you happy.

If you think I’m the devil because this one guy told you about my evil, evil past and all my terrible misdeeds, without anything at all to back up his words? You can ask me. I don’t bite, and oh lordy do I have receipts.

To be clear, R is totally allowed to hate me! I don't care. I don't care if he hates my writing, I don't care if he hates me as a person. But now he's escalated to spreading lies about me, and people are believing him, and I’m not enough of a doormat to let that just stand.

And I’m going to cheat a little. Here’s a memo with the cliffs notes version (not the original memo, I made a copy with C’s urls cropped out since he hasn’t attacked anyone in a long while). Warning, digging any distance into this turns up violent fantasies, violent sexual fantasies, creepy interactions with a minor, and lots more, it’s all really, really unpleasant. Evidence is thoroughly documented, please tread with care.

You would not believe how truncated that is compared to the reality.

Now, the worst of this came via C. Who has calmed down a lot these days, and I’m really happy that’s the case. Good for him. I hope his life continues in a direction where he doesn’t find it necessary to do this stuff.

Lucky for me, R was standing by to pick up the slack.

It doesn’t show up as much in the memo, which is mostly C-focused, but R was standing by C this whole time, defending his right to spread around private information about someone’s abuse history, sending nasty messages on the other guy’s behalf, and much,much more. it’s long, it’s awful, it’s unpleasant. R personally hurt people in some significant ways that I don’t want to link directly, for their sake. He expressed deep remorse a few times, but it never stuck.

Here’s my personal favorite quote from R. He’s speaking to the CSA survivor that C casually outed (with information given to him in confidence), and who they’d been running a long, long whisper campaign against, and who was understandably a bit upset over the whole thing:

oh go wank to your own tears [name]

#and get your sympathizers to help #nasty fucking people #maybe if you cry enough youll be able to go into second grade in the fall #ooc

Said, again, to a CSA survivor they outed and harassed. That person is such a sweetheart, and this screencap still infuriates me.

The first time I saw C pick a fight he had lots of friends. Shockingly, as he did things like loudly fantasize about how he wants to mutilate people and rant about how autistic people should die, those friends mostly drifted away. I know one person had a friend even help them stage a faux relationship-ending fight, so they could be sure they’d be able to completely cut and run from C. R stuck with him, though. Eventually they even started dating.

‘Spock followed R into transformers to harass him and stalks his favorite characters just to harass him more’

Then, transformers. Here, let me show you the first post (by R) that ever brought MTMTE to my attention. I spent years being aggressively uninterested in transformers, but this caught my eye

and honestly, ppl (adults too!!!) shipping someone who has the mentality of a child and is quite glaringly lacking a world of experiences and general understanding of things outside of ‘good’ and ‘bad’, with an adult, is just. very alarming and gross to me.

and honestly, the fact that there is a large portion of people who want him to become romantically (and sexually!!!) involved with either one of two fucking adults in canon, and hell, esp those defending it with ‘hes an adult too tho!!’ is really gross.

you can pretend all you want that hes ‘an adult’ because his body is, but theres no way jro didnt intent to code him as a child. stop fetishizing children lmao,

#pedophilia -/-/- #cygate -/-/- #if someone comes at me screaming ‘rule 38′ im gonna shove them in a locker

I didn’t know transformers, but I was pretty sure this was some straight-up bullshit.

(but don’t worry, he ships it now! no hypocrisy here, no sir)

It’s “really gross” to ship this adult with other adults. Mm. Given the reasonableness of the claims these guys have made in the past, and given their extensive history of harassing people over those claims, I hopped to the wiki to check it out. I read a bit about the comic and the plot, and all of it sounded so fascinating that I just had to give the comic a try.

Reader, I married it.

I shotgunned MTMTE 1-47 in two days, started doing fanworks right out of the gate, and I’ve never looked back. A lot of my art was cygate, because come on, the comic wants you to ship it so bad, my first readthrough ended with issue 47, and that was the first ship I’d ever read about for the series, even before I dove in.

Now, both these characters punch me right in the heart, in some painfully personal ways. Tailgate’s the more relevant one here, but I don’t even know if I could do justice to the emotions both of them give me.

I’m still not a fan of how R’s lies about me have edged me into needing to say this in public, but okay. I’m developmentally delayed. It’s been a rough ride. And Tailgate hits me in some of those spots so hard it just takes my breath away. I’ve got a lot of baggage over not being a real adult, and not in the funny oh-no-how-do-taxes-work way, more like an extended months-long meltdown my first year of college because I can tell that my friends are years ahead of me and I don’t know how to even start catching up, and just existing, as myself, is humiliating.

All of my relationship milestones have come painfully, painfully late. The whole thing is still one awful emotional bruise. I hate it, and I hate how easy it is to convince myself that yeah, of course you don’t actually deserve to be treated as an adult and you never will. Just look at you. So then it is unbelievably important to me that I can see someone someone who is like me, being treated as a legitimate adult, and being able to have an adult relationship.

Hearing that shipping someone like me is essentially pedophilia is the opposite of that.

But he ships it now, so everything is fine :)

Yeah, you know what? Another fucking receipt.

uGHGH im so tired of all the rabid cy// /gat// //e fans like even cy’s giving em a look like ‘leave my fucking child alone’

#i just #im hoping jro has some taste tho and doesnt make an adult date a child #and if not im hoping the outcome blows over soon bc im so tired of seeing people defend pedophilia #pedophilia -/-/-

Parental.

This continued even after JRO explicitly confirmed Tailgate was an adult.

Bonus ableism: shipping Whirl (another character who hits me way too hard) isn’t okay either. Even though there isn’t the excuse of ‘but he only lived three years--’ No, at that point, you’re saying that an adult who fails to adult correctly does not count, and isn’t allowed to have romantic relationships. It makes my skin crawl, and it is an issue which is very personally and directly important to me.

So some of my cygate was porn from the start (it’s what I write. it’s what I draw.), and some of the porn was made because I was upset over discourse that says someone like me needs to be treated as a child. I played with cywhirlgate too, because omg how could I not, and some of that was porn as well. It was ages ago, so I don’t remember the details for every little thing I made. But when I saw someone saying that Cyclonus and Tailgate had a parental relationship, I’m sure that helped nudge me in that direction. Maybe R thinks I should have channeled my emotions by starting a whisper campaign to exclude him from fandom spaces. But I think my way of working through bad emotions might have been a little healthier than that.

So when R accuses me of making cygate content to spite him? Half true. Just true enough to be real fucking dishonest. R spent a nice long time insisting that cygate was pedophilia. I channeled my outrage over that ableism into fan creations.

I didn’t attack him. I talked about him some – on a private forum, with people who’d already been aware of him and had been watching him and C hurt people for years, plural. I haven’t told people on tumblr any real details about him until now. And R still is happy to talk about how it was his toxic ex’s right to post torture/rape/murder porn vent fic about actual people.

Tell me, how exactly am I in the wrong?

Bonus pettiness: I posted some cywhirlgate porn. The next day, R vaguely whined about robot pedophilia and turned around and wrote some obviously-a-response cywhirlgate. Where it was super platonic and the text explicitly said it was super platonic and it even had platonic thigh nuzzling. With two “children” involved. Of course I turned around and wrote more fic of my own, because jesus h christ that made my skin crawl. You want to play this game? I guarantee I can write faster than you, let’s do this. (he did not follow through on that)

I’d also like to say that forgetting inconvenient little details like this is a thing with R. Hard to call me terrible for writing spitefic when you write it yourself.

A history of Spock’s personal involvement

Let’s backtrack a tiny bit. You may notice I am up to my elbows in this nonsense for no clear reason.

I was friends with some of the people C was taking shots at, and I was unfortunate enough to believe his original smear campaign about that one artist (I’m still ashamed about that). I cared about a number of people C was trying to hurt. I think one or two fanworks of mine upset him, but he already had loads of targets. I kept tabs on him and R, because anxiety is the gift that just keeps giving.

Eventually, C fantasized about wanting to put my former datemate’s hand through a meat grinder (ey wrote a fic that portrayed his fave in a negative light). And R defended his right to do that.

The person he posted about is still feeling the effects of that incident. I’m still feeling the effects of that. And it wasn’t even directed at me, just someone I care deeply about.

R has recently posted that ‘oh my goodness, C sure was awful, remember when he posted this thing about a meat grinder and how unreasonable it was?’ Thanks buddy, glad you noticed, now just go ahead and keep on blaming me for the aftereffects of what your boyfriend did, and what you defended.

After that, it was months before I could properly look away from either of their blogs.

C posted extensively about trying to track down the street address of his ~enemies~ (including the one whose genitals he fantasized about mutilating). He posted about how autistics should die. He had skype chats about wanting to do amateur brain surgery on people. All while posting very often about finding real addresses.

Yeah, it’s more than a year later, and every so often I get a stab of anxiety and have to head off to double check on what these two are up to.

I will repeat that C has been pretty chill lately. He’s got a career he’s aiming for. Good for him, go find success, please don’t slip back into being an internet bully. It’s sad and upsetting to see R echoing some of the early patterns of his ex, and it’s so strange to see me labeled as his own personal enemy.

‘Spock will totally come harass you too’ and/or various accusations of ableism

So there are some things I did in the mix in this history that I regret. Occasionally, I went out and flipped through the blogs of C and R’s friends, seeing if maybe they’d had said something in their notes, did they have any vagueblogs C liked, did they post about— It got unreasonable. I admit that. Anxiety was at the root of it, but it absolutely got unreasonable. And also it is a massive time sink, and I can’t remember the last time I bothered with it. I enjoy life much more when anxiety and paranoia issues don’t have their claws in me. This hasn’t been an issue in a very long time.

I came down hard on some of the kinfeels and system stuff too, which I do walk back a bit. C’s approach was… hahaha. It was something. And he was my intro to the kin and system paradigms. I saw R talking about C’s approach being unreasonable too, pretty recently. So that was an unfortunate bit of poison in how I processed the next people I met who did that sort of thing. I don’t do kin stuff, but I get it. And DID may not strictly apply to all systems, by the formal diagnostic criteria, but I’ve learned there are plenty of other dissociative disorders out there. And I met people who were multiples and who did kin things that weren’t these two guys. Which helped a LOT.

But the big one, hmmm. C wrote a fic. The idea was interesting, but the execution frustrated me. Everyone but the main lead felt so… flat. Everyone was constantly cruel to the main, for no reason. I saw a way to riff on the original text while staying true to its shape, and writing my bad emotions out is also a major, major thing I do to cope. Now, my big thing is that I should have asked before I remixed. I’d been thinking in terms of, y’know, transformative fanworks. Even with authors like Anne McCaffrey and Anne Rice, who fought against fandom, people have still felt that it should be allowed, even against their wishes. So I wrote the remix. I gave full credit on ao3 in the ‘inspired by’ box, linked to the original with positive words, the whole shebang.

The guy was still furious, and… that’s fair. I thought I’d written a thing on self-sabotage that was pretty sympathetic and compelling, and the self-sabotage actually drew a lot on my own personal history. But I gave the main flaws he strongly disagreed with, and I didn’t ask for permission. I get why he was/is angry over it.

I’ve been a fixture on their shitlists ever since :P

It’s remarkable, even while R posts now about ‘oh my god, remember how C wrote the creepiest things?’, I’m still the one who’s the the actual worst, for being skeeved out by the creepy things and finding a constructive way to deal with it. R’s controlling ex gets full freedom when it comes to vent fic, even when it’s about wallowing in torturing, raping, and murdering an avatar for a real person (the original one they harassed!), or punching someone in the face until they agree to be your friend (another artist these guys targeted). But R’s position seems to be that only C is allowed to vent (even if it’s genital mutilation fantasies), and I’m definitely not.

Oh, and R has now expanded this remix into me totally having a consistent pattern of stealing ideas and plagiarism and so many remixes that are obviously done as revenge on anyone who pisses me off. So that’s nice.

So R hates your writing. Is that seriously why this post exists?

Ha, no. Let’s look at the concrete things R is saying. Here, let me post a little sampling of evidence.

These aren’t just things he’s shouting into the void, people have responded saying wow, I never knew that! These are lies that people are believing about me. And then yesterday, June 30, 2017, he warned a friend not to disagree with my meta, or I’d come harass them. A friend I’m aggressively leaving out of this, just as I’m leaving out other responses, because these people don’t deserve to be dragged into R’s bullshit.

Let’s have bullet points. Some of these are the silly spock-is-bad-at-writing complaints. Those are here because this whole mess is pretty fucking depressing and the ridiculous claims make me laugh, but these are all things he says.

Spock is evil – You know what, he’s not calling people pedophiles, which is a step up. I’ll take it.

Spock is a plagiarist – I remixed one fic with full credit, said only good things about the original, and linked to it in extra places so that people would have extra opportunities to click through and check it out. I arguably remixed inappropriately, but that’s not the same thing. Words have definitions. If I’m a plagiarist, so is everyone who’s ever written a fanfic.

Spock is something something mean when people disagree – I don’t even know, man. I’m actually shockingly conflict-averse. Is this because I make walls of text and explain why I hold opinions at great length? I enjoy talking about a thing I love. I’m autistic, I’m hyperverbal, and this is my special interest, so is it that I talk a lot? That’s the best I can do. I’ve talked about things I disagree with on a private forum, in which case mister pot has had a lot of fun in public on twitter, not only talking shit, but also spreading outright untruths. Maybe he wants to rethink this one.

Spock will come harass you if you disagree – You need to back the heck down, pal.

Spock’s meta/fic/characterization is bad and they should feel bad – Hahaha, fite me. He won’t, because I can articulately defend myself at significant length, and his criticisms seem to stop at ‘spock sucks’, but hey.

Spock used ableist language about Whirl - I... what? This one confuses me and makes me laugh so it stays here. Also, holy double standards, batman.

Spock is only into transformers to harass R – I checked out transformers because I was pretty sure R was being disgustingly ableist (he was). I stayed in transformers because I adore it. I had to adore it a lot to make me willing to share fandom space with these two. My god, I have better things to do with my life than spend all my time on something that bores me just to annoy one asshole on the other side of the internet. I’d ask if he thinks I spent dozens of painstaking hours cross-stitching Starscream just to bother him, but….. yep, pretty sure he does.

Spock goes after all of R’s favorite characters to upset him – R latches on to just about every interesting and/or sympathetic character that shows up. When he was dating C, they covered most of the cast between them. I don’t care who R likes best because I don’t agree with his opinions. I tend to stay away from his opinions because I don’t like reading things that bother me. This is asnine. I’m only allowed to like the characters R despises, I guess.

Spock makes fanworks for things R likes just to make him see them – Oh my god, I don’t caaaaaare. I write about things that interest me, unless I’m venting. Say, venting about the way R and his ex have deliberately hurt a shockingly high number of people I care about. ‘Spock made rodistar because I liked it--’ I made it because I wrote a thing about their parallels, and shipping was the obvious next step. R isn’t that important to me. Promise.

This is just exhausting, man. The anxiety bugs had been dying down, and it had been ages since I checked out this guy’s anything. C, who drove the whole initial blowup that led to this, has been quiet and chill on tumblr. But R has learned from his ex’s old example and has been having fun spreading lies about me.

In conclusion

Some fun history.

R was 18 when he told a CSA survivor upset about being outed and harassed to wank using their tears for lube.

He was older than that when he defended C’s right to post about wanting to mutilate someone’s genitals (for the crime of saying C’s logic didn’t make sense).

He was older than that when he complained about that person’s spouse being ‘vicious’ for reacting badly to C’s genital mutilation fantasy.

He was older than that when he nodded along as C called autistic people retards and said they should die.

He was older than that when he talked about being happy that someone he disliked was triggered, and nodded along when C fantasized about that person drinking bleach.

And he was older than that when he defended C, his twenty-something boyfriend, against the thirteen-year-old that C had been having incredibly inappropriate conversations with, despite skype log proof and everything.

And despite all this, I’m still the bad guy, because I didn’t think what they were doing was okay. I’m the bad guy for being upset by C's actions, even though... R is now upset by C’s actions. The ways I responded to C were inexcusable. My only motivation is to hurt people. Every thing I did that ever upset them still means I’m terrible, even though R is saying this while he’s busy posting about how awful C is. And this all means that he needs to warn his friends not to catch my attention, or I’ll come harass them.

So, I’m tired.

I’m very tired.

I’m glad he’s trying to grow past that history. Good. Maybe he can do that without making up a story about how I’m unrepentant villain who lives for villainy and who only takes joy in causing him pain. I’m sure it helps him, because it’s a story that brushes aside the shit he did that he regrets, and makes his past less painful to think about. But that doesn’t mean I’m okay with him telling lies about me.

I don’t know why I’m the one boogeyman he has left (I kid, it’s because I’m in transformers, and because he thinks I’m popular. he harps on it a lot, and it’s weird for everyone). I mean, whatever. I’ve aggressively avoided publishing drama details on here for a very long time. But there are two blog tags, miscellaneous other untagged blog content, three forum threads, and hundreds of pages of skype logs with hard evidence of this bullshit.

I’m pretty sure that if he tries to defend himself, one, he’ll place some blame on his ex. That’s fair. C was pretty darn controlling and demanding. But R is still absolutely responsible for his own actions, and is especially responsible for the harm he personally caused. He’ll talk about how it’s bullshit to pull up all these receipts from so very long ago. In that case, his receipts for me (whatever he even has) are equally old, so aren’t they null and void? No, because Spock is the devil. And it’s not so much bullshit if he’s clearly learned nothing, and has gone back to spreading outright falsehoods about people.

To be clear, a lot of the lies he told about me were told a while back. Weeks to a few months to a year. I was letting it sit, because I’d really, really hoped this was over. Yesterday, June 30, 2017, he warned a friend not to publicly disagree with my meta or I’d come and harass them.

It’s been three years since I first saw him doing this. I’ve watched him hurt a lot of people, and I’ve watched him admit, multiple times, that he has hurt people. I thought he’d learned to stop following these toxic patterns. Apparently he has not.

Edit 7/2/2017: To repeat the edit up above, R has said he regrets posting these things about me, and that he's going to try to avoid slipping into this in the future. I very much appreciate that.

#drama tag #abusaa tag #tw: all #i can't list them all it's too many #just tread with care

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youseriousjayse · 7 years

Text

Oh shit. I wanna fuck my boss. This is...not good.

I stg I barely caught myself from just walking over and kissing them while they were saying something ridiculous after the shop was closed. Oh fuck oh fuck. THis is bad. They’re married and have kids and they seem like a good person but sometimes…I definitely think they’ve flirted w me before. And I seem to be a favourite for no apparent reason. They talk about their spouse and their personal life all the time to me (esp their spouse), but I’ve only ever heard them mention their spouse like twice to other workers. And they compare me to their spouse all the time. Always saying I sound just like them or I do this or that just like them. ANd I would definitely go for it if it was an option which prob makes me a horrible person, but that’s okay I already knew that.

Idk how they manage to be both “ur really hot” and “ur the cutest thing I’ve ever seen.” It’s maddening. And they’re so fucking funny and that’s my weakness and they’re always trying to make me laugh. idek how old they are. in their twenties im 96% certain. Im horrid at guessing age. there’s def at the v least 5 yrs b/t us. but idrk. I don’t even hypothetically want anything serious. I literally just wanna be able to fuck them and feel mushy about them on the side and end it when I leave next july. Obv this isn’t ever going to happen but thinking about it hypotheticlly helps me short my shit out. idk. idk. i really like thm and they seem to like me. And the thing is it’s not even just about wanting to fuck them. I care about their kids and that means a lot bc i fucking hate kids and one of theirs is an attention whore and i rlly hate that type of kid. but i like them bc they are my boss’s kids and my boss loves them. And I love hearing more about them (even tho it’s always p sad shit about them acting up in school and always being upset bc my boss is never home)

Just…..wow. if anyone needed more proof im fucked up. have at it.

Seriously tho on the seeming interested in me and showing favouritism front, they are…so protective of me. Like they are Never like this with the other employees, and it’s definitely not like I can’t defend myself. The most marked example would be the guy who runs the bodega across the street.

He came in one day, screaming about how my manager had accused his son of stealing. So they were like, I’m not sure what you’re talking about but I’m sorry if there was some sort of miscommunication. And he just kept screaming at them and calling them a little bitch and a f*ggot repeatedly, and threatening to bash their fucking head in. And they were just taking it all very calmly and professionally and saying ‘I don’t recall this happening, I’m sorry if you heard differently’ even though he was physically pushing them and still threatening them and calling them all sorts of things. Then he finally left, but not twenty minutes later he came back, just as angry, shouting the same stuff and hurling around slurs and threats and pushing my manager around. Again, they kept very calm and responded reasonably and evenly the same stuff they had before.

Again he eventually left. But then he decided he had apparently still not had enough so he came back a third time. Just as angry as before, just as hostile and antagonising. The assistant manager on duty had come up front the last time to see what was happening, but had not intervened. However this time she tried to help, also calmly saying the same things as the manager. She had been working the day before and seen the guy’s kid come in and nothing like that had happened, so he started calling her a lying fucking bitch and saying he was gonna kill both of them, and kept more and more violently shoving my manager, which they continued to just calmly take.

Eventually the guy was just was repeatedly calling them a f*ggot again and again and again. And I, also calmly, asked if he could just please stop saying that word and he fucking rounded on me and started really laying in calling me a little bitch and all sorts of things, which I didn’t react to at all, because I have an excellent poker face. But I have Never seen my manager angry at all. Not even a little bit. But they were fucking furious, and they shoved him roughly back to the door (mind you he’s a big fuckin guy) And got right up in his face and fucking snarled Get The FUCK Out Of My Store (I did Not know actual snarling words was a thing, I thought it was just smth writers said to make the angry words more emphatic, but it is a Thing™) and shoved him straight through the door. And then they just took a deep breath and turned back around calmly as ever and was like ‘sorry about that’ to the other customers and started rearranging the counter like usual.

And that whole situation has come up twice since then when we were talking (it was months ago), and both times they were like yeah it was whatever, but when he started yelling at You I fucking snapped. And I’m like. Yeahhh how do I take this. Because I am not defenseless and I don’t look like it and I’m not tiny or fragile looking, we have several other employees more likely to feel the impulse to protect but,,,they never do? It never even seems to occur to them?

Just the other day I had a lady come in who was clearly spoiling for a fight. Rude and aggressive as fuck, but I treated her calmly and professionally bc that’s what I do, but she just kept saying dumb shit, so I kept responding, not in any offensive or upset way, just repeating the facts in a calm manner. She really started yelling and was like 'I don’t like ur fuckin attitude you keep talking back you’re getting all smart with me.’ And I (again. Very calmly.) Explained that I was simply answering the questions she asked. And she was like Where’s your fuckin manager bc you’re being rude as fuck you just keep talking back.

So my manager was at the register next to(?) mine(the counter is like an L shape and has registersat either side of the corner). And they turned around and said 'I don’t hear anything unprofessional or rude’ but she kept yelling over them and talking about how rude I was, so they kept saying I wasn’t doing anything wrong, so they were like 'Okay you can go now. Please leave the store’ and gave her the corporate number when she asked for it angrily, saying she was gonna complain about us (like so??? Fine. Here’s my name and the store # idgaf).

After she left and we took care of the couple of customers left they turned to me and were like 'wow she was really spoiling for a fight.’ And I was 'yeah I mean I saw it when she came in and was super aggressive right off the bat. She was so angry for no reason. Like…chill lol’ and they gave me a sort of look and were like 'I don’t know how you deal with that (((which, mind you, every employee, and Definitely them, deals w shit like that without going off))) I feel like it bothers me a lot more when they get like that to you, than it actually bothers you’. I just shrugged, but again……they dont,,,,do that for other employees. They always stick their neck out for me or get angry (I mean as close as they get to angry, excepting the thing w the bodega owner) on my behalf. It’s…what am I supposed to make of that?

Literally if they’re around and a customer tells me to lighten up or smile or smth (bc my face is just really unexpressive unless I put a lot of effort in) they’ll just smoothly come over and be like 'I’ve got the smile for ya’ or if someone is being aggressive or harrasing about it, they won’t even pretend to be cheerful and nice, they’ll just be like 'My employees don’t get paid to smile.’ Which,,,I’m not the only one who never smiles. Actually it’s just my manager and one of the assistant managers that always smile. The rest of us are p brusque and more obviously dead inside and dislike interacting with people. But again, they’ve never done that or said anything for another employee (that I know of, obv I’m not always around, but I’m around enough to feel like I practically live there).

And just. Bloody hell, they will talk about aggressive customers and tell me the customer got in their face and will be like 'seriously, like this’ and move their face so we’re barely not touching. Like. ???!?!?!????? And they get real close to me and brush by me a lot. Mind you, they do not do this to other employees (esp the face thing), but they’ll like lean over my shoulder to look at my paperwork or make fun of me (not like in a mean way just something stupid) or they’ll come over to put their numbers in (bc we need higher clearance on the computers for like,,,almost everything it’s so stupid) and they’ll like get right up next to me or squeeze in front of me. Which again, they do not do to others, and no other employee does that to me or anyone else.

If this was a book ppl would be pissed about the slow burn like Okay Why Aren’t Things Happening Already??! But unfortunately real life and an actual human being is more complicated than that. And I don’t know what to do with it.

~update: they just turned thirty. Fuck. I’m just barely twenty.

Edit: New jeans. very nice new jeans. dammit please stop rearranging the shelves in front of me while i’m trying to work, your ass is distracting. And a new tight tight jacket too and they wear it with the sleeves pushed up right below the elbow and that’s just. Always hot. The fucking jeans together with that stupid cursed jacket makes it incredibly difficult to look away. They’re just hhhhhhhhh I can’t. This is. So much.

YEAH I could prolly go on about them forever, but I know this is super obnoxiously long. I don’t know who I’m apologising to tho bc literally nobody reads this. Which is prolly why I overshare but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

#personal #serious fucking angst

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whatyousaiddotcom-blog · 7 years

Text

SOME CORRESPONDENCE OF SC

Correspondence between SC and JM (a member of the accountability panel), November 2014

SC 11/29/14 to JM

Dear JM,

it was nice to see you other other day at the demo....im not exactly sure how to start this email but our exchange keeps repeating on me...so i thought i would write to you... i was a bit irrked that you seemed surprised that I said I was feeling quite shit and when you asked me whats up etc

I'm starting to think you have no idea what the impact the bloomsbury ten stuff has had on me... i wanted to write to you so you had some type of idea...

as Im sure your aware everything sparked up again recently ( it actually sparked up (intensely) again a few weeks before K’s piece of writing but i wont go into that here ). and there is now a name and shame blog doxing me and the others and accusing us of various crimes.

I know you have not partaken in this and even tried to calm thing down on fb at one point.... but it doesnt help and things are really bad.

there are a BUNCH of people who read our intervention letter who have grossly and purposely falsified what we originally wrote - you know many of these people - ( ie NBa, RA-D, P, STA, etc many others ) and im sure you have seen this stuff circulating recently and over the last few years.

they accuse us of at least these things:

- victim blaming

-denying it happened

-calling her a liar

- asking for more evidence

- asking about her sexual history

-bullying and harassing her

-saying it was her fault.

yet anyone who read / reads the original letter and who has basic comprehension skills can clearly see that none of these things happened. these are projections onto what we wrote and not our words at all. obviously we cannot even defend ourselves publicly to refute these malicious claims without picking over detail and i think no one thinks it would be appropriate or right to do this as both the first email and our response have details of …. This has left space for others to twist and turn and lie about what we originally wrote.

Im not saying you should agree with what we wrote or our intervention but seriously these lies about what happened are more than malicious and completely untrue. equally as for the claims that we were were hiding behind anonymity - we went to BOTH follow up meetings after we wrote the letter and everyone knew who we were - we also agreed to go to a third meeting but that never happened .... the only reason people have my name now is because i went to a meeting and made myself known like everyone else. i hardly think this is hiding ...

---

i want you to understand the effect this has had on me not just in the last month or so but over the last few years as well.

firstly i had so much self doubt to the point that i felt that i WAS a victim blaming rape apologist and that what we had written was of that effect. I had to read and re read what we wrote over a couple of hundred times ( and that is not an exaggeration ) - i have read it over and over to try and understand peoples accusations...finally in desperation I showed it privately to (redacted) who were not part of writing the original statement - from (redacted) to (redacted) - i showed it to very smart and honest people- EVERYBODY was fucking shocked at the way what we wrote had been interpreted. It is only with the most decontextualised and ungenerous reading of about one line that you could move to a victim blaming reading...... this response / projection is complete gas lighting and really hurtful and dangerous. ( esp for me as i have pretty serious mental health issues)

over the last weeks, basically after K wrote her piece, i repeatedly felt suicidal and got very very ill... al had to take time off to stay with me and look after me. I couldnt walk i couldnt eat and i couldnt sleep. i was completely haunted by the trial by social media ( i actually still am). and the very malicious smears against me and the others. I basically had a complete breakdown and had to be put in touch with a crisis mental health team and was very close to hospitalization.... and although i am on the mend now i am very far from being well and am dosed up to the eyeballs on meds and still have very low days. this has had an extreme impact on me.

Im not sure if you know this but i lost my father at the beginning on this year.... its really been the year from hell. I was just starting to recover from his death and then this stuff comes up and was the final straw and knocked me sideways...

many people of twiiter who tweet about this like its a fucking sport know not only that i lost my dad this year but that i have stress triggered mental health problems... this doesnt seem to stop them from massively false and malicious tweets. I have had PERSONAL abuse from R and there are a lot of men who have taken a delight in taking a stand against me ( victim blaming rape appologist ) and think its fine to stick my name on a blog and spread lies about me ( obviously i deserve it).....

to get proof of who was saying what I literally had to witness my own online abuse in real time as a live twitter feed - i had to screen grab the lot before people could deny or delete what they were saying or block me - please try to imagine what its like to photograph your own abuse as spectacle on twitter. ....

anyway i have proof of a lot of what and who has been saying what now...

----

to be honest im not even telling you the half of what has gone on , on the impact this has had on me and others and of how upset i am by the sheer dishonesty, cruelty and sadistic abuse that has happened. ontop of that no one says anything and people like RA-D, M and NBa and P go on as if nothing has happened.

---

i know you havent joined in in any of this and you didnt ask for it to happen. I have to be honest with you though - neither you , JB, SB, or MC [the accountability panel] have ever said anything and this really hurts. you were all part of the original group who wrote the letter and tried to sort things out.... no one has said anything and it has spiralled to the point that it has.... you all have been able to walk away.... it was very hard to have you bounce up to me at the demo and be surprised that i was not ok or ask why i was not ok.....

i am basically known on twitter as a rape appologist for things i haven’t done and haven’t said. have another look at what was written - we never disputed what [REDACTED] said once - we criticised the process as we said we didn’t think things were being dealt with in a serious or appropriate way - we NEVER disputed what she said or said it was her fault and we always said that it needed to be dealt with... its written in the statement which im sure you still have..

i dont really know why im writing this... i know you disagree with what we wrote - i disagree with what was originally written - but never did i think you were coming from a bad place - i know you were trying to do the right thing.... i feel like people assumed the very very worst of me and others and that it is grossly ungenerous and now is dishonest and cruel.

i dont know what to say really - im still not ok about any of this and now every time i go on social media or to a demo I must wonder if i must see people like RA-D. NBa etc acting like nothing bad has happened, acting like they are not abusive and dishonest and that there will be no repercussion for how they have treated me and others.

— ( screen grabs sent including death threat screen grab)

i have plenty more screen grabs that just a very very small selection..

(redacted)

if you think about it " pls remind me who im missing out"

he purposely left my name out ( he knew i was part of b10 ) then asked people to remind him of my name in the separate next tweet ... please run that around in your head and think about what that means and why he did that... he takes a massive pleasure in being purposely abusive to me personally... its a fucking sport to him..... and no body said anything.

———

sorry to keep emailing - only to say i probably have left my flat less than 15 times in the past two months / two and half months since this has kicked off.... im basically non functional and i spent about a month uncontrollably weeping for most of the time i was awake... quite literally - u can ask anyone from a to DG or MH to the crisis team or my dr - who took it in turns looking after me during the worst parts of it.

that i have to put up with abusive men like RA-D or women like NBa and P ( because i deserve it for being a rape apologist ) is beyond a joke.

you know very little about my life and nor does anyone else - i have NOT had an easy life , the statistical chances of me being relatively sane , functional and with a good post grad education are much less than 1 percent.

and now i have to put up with a bunch of very well educated privileged student activists who I know to have high comprehension and reading skills fucking lying about what i/others have written and done is a fucking joke.

and that they purport to do this in the name of countering gendered structural violence is a fucking disgrace.

JM 11/29/14 to SC

Hey S,

I had no idea it had gotten this bad and that it was ongoing.

DG mentioned some of this to me a few weeks ago but but then I had only seen a small amount of the backlash on M's facebook wall, which is what I responded to. It seemed like it had flared up around K's post but was beginning to die down. I don't use twitter that much, partly because of the irritating dogmatism and pernicious attitudes it seems to produce (case in point), so I hadn't seen any of the stuff on there. I either don't follow, don't know, or have stopped following the people you mentioned and have generally distanced myself from a lot of the left-crowd in the past year for a number of reasons - but partly because I find the language and mentality which seems to have developed so off-putting that I no longer feel a part of the same discourse - the result is that I'm perhaps more out of the loop than you were aware.

Whatever type of anarchism it is that justifies this kind of behaviour I don't want any part of, and can't think of anything more willfully destructive than posting people's names on the internet or threatening people with violence. I can understand why [REDACTED] is angry about what happened but I can't for the life of me understand how this will help anything beyond a misplaced desire for arbitrary retribution.

You know my feelings about what was written, but as far as I'm concerned it is in the past. I'm sure that if we could go back in time everybody would have gone about things differently on all sides. What matters to me is where people's heart is - I have no doubt whatsoever that people like yourself and MH are good people with the best intentions. I wouldn't maintain the fondness I hold for both of you if I didn't. JBR and some of the others I'm less sure about - there are some good parts to him, but I don't trust him enough to be as close as I once was; being polemic or 'critical' often seems more important to him than generosity of spirit, and he can consequently be quite nasty to people with very little reason. He is far better at sowing division than anything else. I think RB is a good man but sometimes lets his friendship with JB cloud his judgement, as it did mine at points in the past. I certainly don't harbour ill will towards him, even if I felt initially hurt by him, and I'm sad we're not as close to each other because of all this stuff - I feel like I lost an important friend. I haven't come across RL in the past few years but I'd like to hope we'd be able to clear the air one day if we did cross paths. I've never had any reason to doubt she's a lovely person who got caught up in an extremely difficult situation and any hostility she expressed was an understandable product of that.

As for now, I don't think anybody has any answers to this stuff and if we're going to come up with anything of meaning or value it will require thinking through the kind of criticisms K made in her post, many of which are inarguable. At the same time we can't just ignore issues when they arise for the sake of convenience. Unfortunately the political climate seems completely anathema to learning anything productive from what has happened and looks to bully people (how much easier) on social media instead - hence my increasing sense of frustration with the 'scene' and my desire to become more distant from it.

I haven't been staying silent because I'm okay with what's happening - I simply haven't encountered it except on M’s facebook wall, where I intervened accordingly. If this starts to happen again send me a message and I will offer whatever weight I have as someone who criticised the original statement. I'm wary of putting something up out of the blue lest it simply stir the whole thing up again, but if others are doing that anyway let me know.

I hope you're doing okay. if you want to have a drink and chat about any of this or life generally just drop me a line.

J x

Correspondence between SC and JM (a member of the accountability panel), April 2015

to JM

and are any other accountability group members coming to the meeting?

JM 4/26/15 to sc

Yep that's fine for me - as to the others I don't know, I prodded them the other week but no one replied. I think I'm right in saying that no one was opposed to talking on principle but that there were reservations about it being a larger meeting, what the objective was, how it might be framed etc. If we're going with the 6th then I'll send a message and see what they say.

SC 4/26/15 to JM

no one is going to frame anything .i have always been open with you about my thoughts on this...i think its better for all of us that other people, who are wise and have good politics esp gender politics... are there to advise us all.... i would like people to stop abusing me for stuff i havent done, written , said thought, think etc.. i dont think its a big ask for the group to come considering they were at the heart of the process. i know none of them have been abusive towards me... however they were intitated a process that has become way out of control...i think people need to face up to what has and is happening in an honest way. as i have said many times i have evidence of people smearing me and abuseing me online. there is a very male core to alot of this abuse. i need to make this stop. my endurance for this has run out and its making me exreamly ill. please communicate to the the seriousness of this situation.

and apart from myself i ( unlike all the liars say) worry a great deal about [REDACTED]..I am totally unable to approach her to try and get aid with resolution for her, which she clearly needs.

basically JM i am not despite what many people write about me online , some type of evil bastard and neither is anyone else. the way we have been and are being treated is unjustifiable and it needs to stop, be confronted and people need to take responsibilty for their actions. i am sick of being hounded online and being villified to a large invisible audience. i am sick of people justifying their abuse cos they think i deserve it. - that actually is victim blaming and it needs to stop.

SC 4/26/15 to JM

i have a folder with 6 months worth of abuse - which is about 300 tweets, thats is just a tiny tiny percentage of what has been going on. within this folder i have a sub folder of people joking about putting me in a black bin liner, stabbing me, glassing me and saying that i should be killed. when are people going to wake up?? i am a real person, this has a real imapct on me. i suffer real mental health issues, which are classed as a severe disability. do u understand that if i have a sever breakdown i have zero garentee of " coming out" of a psycotic state? have you any idea what it is like to live with that thought?

how can i get this into peoples heads here??? i have STRESS TRIGGERED PSYCOSIS. - i cant really understand how this cannot at least move people to take some kind of action? or is it that they think that cos i am a " victim blamer" ( which i am not ) that i should just suffer the abuse that i am receiving?

do they need doctors notes? i have access to 18 years worth. i am not making my health problems up....

SC 4/26/15 to JM

do u realise that this is not going to go away? i cant live like this.

they cant justify their abuse. because thats what it is.

SC 4/26/15 to JM

i hope that all of you in the accountability group will stop not see this as an attack on you all and start to face up to what is actually going on here. i incuded people like np, tz and dg on the list becuase i am hopeing that you might talk with them and listen to them about this, you all clearly have zero respect for me and dont believe me.. but myabe you will listen to them? some other perspectives?

JM 4/27/15 to SC

I don't think I've given you any reason to feel I have zero respect for you, Sophie, or the others. I'm coming to the meeting - I'm just relating as best I can what other people feel. I understand their caution, and I can't force them to do anything. I will say that I worry about seeing me or the others as the solution to this - ultimately it isn't coming from us, and none of us share personal relationships or even a political outlook any more with the people involved. To me this is exactly the problem with abandoning the notion of being part of a community with obligations to each other, and what happens if there's no process in place that can bring closure to a problem - which takes us back to the original disagreements I suppose. This was an issue whether anyone wanted to address it or not.

SC 4/27/15 to JM

No one expects any forcing. Some of those in the accountability group are pretty close to some extremely abuseive people. I find it abhorrent. Maybe JB MC Sb etc might well talk to them off social media? I don't know really. It seems odd that a group of people who used to be my friends and who profess to want to deal with gendered violence just shrug their shoulders and say this is a consequence of what u wrote. Or something similar. I have pointed out a number of times how what we wrote has been undeniably and maliciously distorted - and then this distortion used as a pretext for abuse. I m not the only person who think this, I have shown the text to NP, MV, TZ, DG and other people I trust and asked them to read it for the things that we all have been accused of, (redacted) and said that I would apologies if it had blamed her, I lost complete trust in my own capacity to have faith in my own motivations and actions. That is actually gas lighting. Ikon wits not coming from u ( well I actually have at least one horrible grab from SB) but a lot of it is coming fro. People who were on that list or went to the meetings. Plenty people are making excuses for all this is more than shocking... It's like some bastard of Lord of the flies and the Salam witch trails on acid. I have men beating up on me online for things they know I haven't said. And even if I had said them it would still be unjustifiable.

SC 4/27/15 to JM

JM I'm sorry I'm a 35 year old working class woman with severe mental health problems. I was (redacted) and had (redacted). Before I went to university, at 25 my life was spent in (redacted) institutions and women's (redacted). Against statistical odds of probably less than one percent I have a post grad and had hoped to do a PhD. My life was for the first time on 30 years starting to settle. This is ruining me. It's making me ill. I have these disgusting middle class pricks hounding me online for sport and cred. I'm not MH and I'm not JBR and this b10 stuff does not play out in an equal way for us all. For me it is extreeamly traumatic due to who I am and the life that I have lived. As I told you it's making me ill, I am extreeamly lucky I haven't ended up in hospital. Please take time to get educate yourself about schizo effective effective disorder and its relationship to stress.

I hope that the other accountability group people will come to the meeting and stop being complicit and cowardly.

SC 4/27/15 to JM

I am hoping for some type of collective process or intervention. If this doesn't happen I am forced to take matters into my own hands alone to stop people abuseing me.

JM 4/27/15 to SC

I think it's best I just relate the things you're saying to me directly to the others because, as I've said, I'm coming to the meeting.

Are you alright with that, and if so, is there anything from this thread you'd want me not to pass on?

JM 4/27/15 to SC

to be clear I mean just c/ping the above so they can hear it themselves and decide accordingly. I don't think I can be any more use as a go-between now

SC 4/27/15 to JM

If you think it will help I suppose you should. Please do not copy sections but the whole exchange. I feel angry that I am I a position where I must disclose the shit life I have lived. And which still makes me feel a great deal of shame. At least maybe I won't have to go over it in A meeting publicly.

If I find that anyone had forwarded my email exchange beyond people who were in the accountability group I will be more than angry. Equally if it is subject to gossip or distortion on or off social media and I shall be more than upsset.

Thanks for trying to help.

Correspondence between SC and ZB (who had acted as a representative of [REDACTED] during the accountability meetings), October 2014

HI ZB,

I am writing to you as I have been told by people that we have in common and that i trust that you are solid feminist with good politics. I will try to keep this brief. i am not sure how much you are aware of what has been going on recently and for years. I do not have the energy to go over all of it.

The situation cannot go on as it is. I am getting very ill, I have sever stress triggered schizoaffective disorder. I have lost my father this year too. I have comrades and my partner caring for me, so don't worry about that.

I am worried about [REDACTED]. ( not [person with same initials] the other one )

here are some of her tweets, i have a million more, this is a random selection. I have seen worse.

— ( screen grabs of [REDACTED] and other actors)

there are a lot of lies being peddled here. Of course i would be extremely angry too i if i thought anyone had denied my suffering and my experience, victim blamed and asked me to evidence it. ( actually the position that i am in now )

there are a network of actors here, between me and you and her, who have deliberately falsified what we originally wrote and did and have done since. I think they do this to make a political point and to normalize a certain political practice. They can all read well. Im sure a;lot of them have read the original text that was written ( i have attached it here along with my own writing ).

The ONLY reason myself and others have not defended ourselves in a public way is because we am worried about [REDACTED] safety and sanity . I cannot be a punch bag for these people. they are not her friends/ comrades either and not helping her at all. I feel she needs support but i cannot approach her.

There are a host of people getting a lot of pleasure out of all of this. I have screen grabs of the lot. in amongst them hide some very abusive men. I have hard evidence of men abusing me on twitter and using [REDACTED]’s trauma as an excuse to do so. there are a bunch of women too who have played a very big part in escalating this to the situation as it currently manifests. I have had to witness all abuse play out as a spectacle on twitter. I have ( had to ) screen grabbed the lot.

I am not asking help with anything other than a good support network for her. I feel that she is surrounded by some very dubious people, with bad politics and ethics. People who call themselves feminists and communists, who are so far away from that its unreal.

I am sorry to pull you into this but i am worried that lives are at risk. i know you have just had a baby ( congratulations) and i imagine you are time short and tired. If you can think of any thing that might help please let me know.

Solidarity,

ZB 10/13/14 To SC

Hi S. I will use the form on the tumblr to ask for it to be taken down. I don't know who is running it, I was only aware of it after A told me about it yesterday. I have no reason to think that whoever is behind it will listen to me but I will message them.

I have not seen [REDACTED] for almost a year, nor am I able to spend much time on anything political at present as I'm heavily pregnant. Beyond messaging the blog post there isn't anything else I can do at present.

SC 10/13/14 to ZB

Ok thanks for writting back. I worry for [REDACTED] I really do . Her identity seems very invested in all of this persecution and lies. I don't know how aware she really is in all of this or how much she has been gas lit by others. I am sure you can read and I sure you can see that we never blamed her nor ignored or denied that it happened or her trauma. We disagreed and intervened in all of it that is for sure - we disagreed with how the process was manifesting. but none of us have ever bullied her denied that it happened or asked her for more proof or any of those vicious claims that are currently circulating .

Anyway thanks for your solidarity and for writing to the blog. I wish you luck with your pregnancy. X

Sent with one hand

4. Correspondence with an email list including JM from accountability panel, March 2015. This correspondence took place around DG’s banning from Goldsmiths Occupation. DG was not part of B10.

SC to List

sorry but this is not going away.. - an argument about safer spaces - will NOT sort this out!

this is too much bs, i need some support i want to confront this its a pack of fucking lies i am sick to my teeth of this.. i want to call it...it absolutely needs to stop and be put right.

J M - YOU WERE IN THE ACCOUNTABILITY GROUP WHICH HAS BEEN COMPLETELY QUIET.!!!.... you need to meet with me and others and this needs to stop! im AM SICK of people spreading lies about me and others and abusing ME AND MY COMRADES on the web for things that were not said and done! I do not give 2 fucks about what any1 thinks the b10's intentions were.... i know what we wrote and what was said in the meetings after.. i also have a ton of screen grabs about all the malicious lies been spread about us...

i have cc'd Ad. into this who has been purged from SF. i hope he will help us sort this out. MB and U and J all vouch for him.

i CANNOT HANDLE THIS ANYMORE. IT NEEEDS TO BE PUT TO REST!

MB 3/28/15 to SC, kD, AL, B, AS, D, CB, DG, JM, JBR, AP, Ad.

Fucking right!

Apparently people have walked out of the occupation due to this, it wasn't democratically agreed upon at all. the occupation statement and the people behind it are fucking idiots.

JM [accountability panel] 3/28/15 to SC, kD, AL, B, AS, D, CB, DG, JM, JBR, AP, Ad.

Oh for fucks sake.

Alright, I've replied with this for now.

"I don't know where you have got your information from but as someone who was involved in trying to address the situation you're referring to I want to make it absolutely clear that DG had nothing to do with the B10 statement, and was nothing but helpful to me and others throughout the process. I can't see how suggestions to the contrary can be justified. Banning him or anyone else from giving talks runs counter to everything that was trying to be achieved at that time. For people with no knowledge of what you're referring to it also reads like an extremely serious implication about DG. Please don't put out statements like this without contacting people who actually know about the circumstances, and respect the spirit of their intentions. Get in touch with me or anyone else who was involved if you want to talk about this more, but I strongly suggest you remove this statement and cease implying falsehoods about DG, whether you want him to speak at Goldsmiths or not."

SC - I can only respond to what I see, and have done so when directed to obvious bullshit like this.

AP 3/28/15 to SC, kD, AL, B, AS, D, CB, DG, JM, JBR, AP, Ad.

Authoring the thing 'Bloomsbury 10' was so ridiculously stupid. It just sounds so ominous for anyone who hasn't a clue what this is about. I think those involved who havent come forward and defended themselves in writing should probably reconsider as this obviously isnt going away.

SC 3/28/15 to kD, AL, B, AS, D, CB, DG, JM, JBR, AP, Ad. AK

All, JM,

I really do appreciate that you have made a clarification about DG.. however this for me does not cut it at all as it does NOT address the false claim against b10.

to go over this again, the claims are based on the letter that we wrote to the email list, which i attach again, with my underlined parts.

the claims that are made against us that i have screen grabs of, are :

- we victimed blamed and are rape appologists

- that we harrassed [REDACTED] and made her life hell in the ensuing years

- that we hid under a cloak of anonimity - ( WE WENT TO 2 FOLLOW UP MEETINGS in the following week - making it obvious who we were and what we wrote)

- that was said she was lying / making it up / said it was her fault

PLEASE READ WHAT WAS ACTUALLY WRITTEN ON THE STATEMENT!!!!!! IT IS ATTACHED!!!!!

to make this really clear pls read what i wrote in another p[rivate email to a member of sf earlier this month in regards to this letter:

----

I am prepared to take responsibility and argue over the contents of a letter i help write, discuss what it means, and the impact of it and its context... i am not prepared to accept falsifications of what was written, nor projections onto it by others of any inherent meaning or imagined bad motivation or intention.......

for example, i think a reading that is used to justify a lot of the victim blaming label attached to me ( and others ) in relation to the letter ( which after all started all this off more or less) logically works like this:

the first move is to take a single paragraph out of the context of the whole document ( i mean the paragraph that mentions the accountability panels omission of the discussion of knife play - i think this section is what cause most but not all of the accusations of rape apologia and victim blaming etc)

the second move is then to do two things with the de-contextualized paragraph:

1) make it stand it and negate every other written word on the b10 letter

2) and importantly then make the following argument:

something like ".. any mention of the context of the knife is TANTAMOUNT TO VICTIM BLAMING...." ... the claim is, the context of the knife is both irrelevant and at the same time any mention of it would only (be to) discredit her account...

er hello???? why do THEY think it discredits her account... (this is not what we ever said..we did however write that we fully acknowledge her account, this it needed serious responses which had already started, wanted dialogue and a different way of dealing with / you can read those sections i have highlighted them).. ..... this last move.. ( the context is discrediting) is their ( very troubling) projection onto what was intended, meant written, etc etc

im sure you see my point.

please think about the logic of that move....it is very odd and dubious....

-----

the accountability panel were criticised. NOT [REDACTED]!

when is this going to be put to rest..... THE ACCOUNTABILITY PANEL have said NOTHING.. for 3 years!!!!!! THIS IS TOTALLY UNFAIR.

you and others may disagree with me / b10 questioning and disrupting the process. BUT NOT BY FALSIFYING WHAT WAS WRITTEN>

I have had to put up with 3 YEARS of gaslighting me, having "anarchist" men abusing me personally, of being doxed online. I CANNOT TAKE THIS ANYMORE. THIS HAS TO STOP> THIS IS NOT A SAVE DG’s REP CAMPAIGN>

i want a meeting with you JM JB MCe and SB and TJ [all the members of the original accountability panel] and you were ALL in the process and have said NOTHING ABOUT ANY OF THE FUCKING LIES AND ABUSE BEING LEVELED AT ME AND OTHERS.

i am sick of this its BULLSHIT.

i spent 4 years of my fucking life in a (redacted)l. i have a locked and hidden social media account FOR A REASON. I WANT THIS SORTED OUT AND THE TUMBLR DOWN.

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