#also yes he is in me and larry's little Sally Face world

[salcommitsarson]

This is Phoenix! They are a ghostie (living name Maxi) who was sacrificed by the cult they were in via drowning

They have a fire core, which contrasted with the cult's following of a water god, so they became a ghost

[bored-storyteller]

Oh my, thank you!  Thanks for bringing this to me, I love Sally Face! It's one of my favorite indie games ever! I really hope it meets your expectations.

NOTES: I imagined the more adult Sal, but beyond that there are no other references to the timeline of the original story, except some canonical episodes mentioned.

34- Sally Face - Sal Fisher x Reader

"You can see me"

With a last glance at the clock, you quickly close the water bottle, at the same time grabbing the full glass in the same hand that you also hold the medicine box.

You're pretty sure you find Sal in his room, probably bent over his guitar. Surely it is for that reason that he has not paid attention to his therapy.

It doesn't happen often, in fact, it rarely happens that you have to rush to his rescue, nor do you really like doing it. You don't know how he really feels about it.

Knowing where he keeps his medicines and knowing when he has to take them doesn't make you two a couple. Not even living under the same roof makes you a couple - especially if you are not alone - nor does sharing the same room often and willingly.

In fact, even though someone often mistakes you for two young lovers, you don't really know what Sal thinks of you. As close as you feel him, you are not sure that he feels as close to you; on the other hand, he doesn't seem to share the same kind of intimacy with you that he shares with Larry or Ashley, or at least that's what you think.

Besides, you've never seen his face.

Yours is a purely selfish thought, and you are ashamed of it, but you cannot command feelings.

You know that the first time Larry saw his best friend's face was an accident, with Ash instead, she was the one who took the initiative. In neither case was Sal's will to make him show himself. Yet, despite this deep down, inside you, something stung excruciatingly.

When your friend had lifted his mask, Sal that time was not angry at the intrusiveness - as perhaps you would have done -, nor had he tried to escape later. It is logically normal that he now has less trouble showing himself around them. Sweet Sal, always so loving, so perfect.

You shouldn't feel offended. You know well that for Sal the prosthesis he wears is in effect his face, so it's not that he wants to hide from you, you are simply already seeing him.

Yet you know that under that face another is hidden, however much it may be disfigured. You can't pretend it isn't.

That slight annoyance you have repeatedly tried to ignore has slowly grown, but only now have you dared to call it by name. Because you like Sal. You really like him. And when you have understood this, when you have found the strength to admit it to yourself, everything is put in the right place; the joys, the jealousies you felt and feel… and also that desire to see him, to see beyond, to really see him.

But you'll never force on him for it. As simple as it would be to lift that mask to him with an excuse, you will never force him to show himself to you, even if you die with the regret of never having seen him. It's not the same, it's not the face you want to see, it's the trust you want him to give you. But you can't expect it, and you know it.

You could live with this obsession that has become so present in recent weeks that you can hardly forget it. Maybe it's just your mind that doesn't want to focus on your duties, and then it always wanders to him, aimlessly.

"What is Sal's face like?"

You asked Larry one day without realizing it. You didn't really know what you were doing with him, you just know that for a moment your brain was shut down, and when you woke up you whispered that question.

The astonished look of your friend had poured into you a flood of emotions so sudden that they almost made you cry for no reason: you felt guilty, selfish, reckless, stupid, meddlesome and terribly fragile.

You immediately lowered your gaze to protect yourself, muttering an "sorry, forget it" but never would have canceled that damn question. You thought Larry might misjudge you for that, but instead his big hand pulled you to him, ruffling your hair affectionately, saying nothing.

He seemed to have understood more than you hoped for, yet ...

You shake your head and your hand tightens on the glass of water. You knock on the door and softly call Sal's name.

"Yes?"

His answer comes a few seconds later and you feel safe in opening the door slowly.

It's not exactly what you imagined; he is sitting on the bed, his legs stretched out on the mattress and his back resting against the headboard. The guitar is stored in the case, but in his hands he holds a book with a dark cover.

His kind gaze meets you beyond that face that is always the same. It's amazing how expressive that guy can be under that stiff mask. That damn mask. That lovely mask.

"You didn't take them, did you?"

You ask softly as you lift the medicines to show them. Your voice is cracked against your will, and you're praying he didn't notice.

"Oh ..." his eyes snap to the clock hanging on the wall "thanks, I was completely forgetting about it."

His voice is soft, almost cheerful. He is not bothered by your gesture, or he is very good at hiding it.

You watch him get up to go to the bedside table where you put what he needed. You don't pay much attention to it, you just sit on the bed, picking up the book he was reading, making sure you keep your thumb between the pages, so as not to lose the mark he left.

You read the title and a few lines of the presentation absently. You're just trying to buy time with him, and you know it.

You hear it as he handles the pill box and plastic, and hear the rattle of the straps as they unfasten to release his mouth.

You don't watch it, you're used to the process and now, despite you insisting on staying there, you don't really want to watch it.

You don't understand much about the book, you just know it's about music.

"Do you like it?"

You ask, trying to give a semblance of normality.

"Enough ... actually I'm just at the beginning."

You just nod, not really being able to continue the conversation. Your head feels too full confused, but extremely empty at the same time, and you don't know why.

"Hey ... is everything okay?"

His voice makes you jump, as if he has stung you with a needle. Such a simple question, but you suddenly feel discovered, as if he has just proved he can read your mind. As if you were obliged to tell him the truth.

"Yup!"

You exclaim immediately, and without realizing your head jerks towards him, as if you wanted to assure him of the truthfulness of your words.

You don't notice it right away. You see only his blue eyes for a moment, he is looking at you with concern, more than he should.

At first you wonder if your attitude really is that troubling, but then you start to focus.

His hand trembles slightly around the glass of water, and out of the corner of your eye you can see his mask lying on his pillow.

He swallows the medicine by throwing his head back slightly, perhaps to take a break from your gaze, or to escape a little from the agitation, the fear he is having.

Sal, Sal's face. You are seeing him, free from his hiding place, while he drinks.

Surely he is disfigured, excruciatingly deformed. It's not just a few scratches, it's more, it's a real pain, yet you don't notice it.

Again, this is Sal. You're really seeing Sal's face, the face you've always loved, beyond the mask, like his mask.

He sits next to you, he's trying to act naturally, you see him, but you still see his fingers shaking against the cardboard as he puts the tablet away in the box. He did it for you.

Emotions explode in your chest and you don't bother holding them back. There is no time for any misunderstandings. You are free with him, you always have been, you don't know how you forgot this.

"Sal ..."

You call him softly, and he turns to you despite the hesitation. A light "tell me" sweet and helpful pronounced by the spoiled and shy lips.

Silently, you curl up against him, your arms glide smoothly around his chest, expressing your need to feel him close.

He welcomes you - he always does.

"Hey ..." is a faint call of him, as you hide against his neck to prevent your happiness from going out too violently.

"Thanks..." This is all you can say in your voice damp with emotion. Long last. You are like a child in front of the much desired Christmas present. You are so happy that you could carry the whole world on your shoulders.

"Thank you!" You repeat him with more conviction, and finally your eyes return to his sky-colored gaze. So beautiful, always so loving even in his placid surprise.

He looks at your wet eyes, so wet with affection for him. Your smile is so warm and true, and his lungs slowly empty of all the accumulated tension.

He didn't think anyone could look at him that way, not without his mask. He did not think that a look could be so full of love in front of his disfigured face, yet it seems that you are seeing an angel.

You look at him with your eyes shining with all the admiration you feel, and not because you can lie by saying that you are seeing a beautiful face, but because Sal is the most beautiful person you know.

"I-" His voice tries to say something, but it is cut off; this time it's up to him to be overwhelmed by emotion.

You approach slowly, and the tip of your nose touches his, practically non-existent, but you don't care. You cannot resist the desire to cuddle him, to touch him, to perceive him in every possible aspect of that intimacy that he has decided to give you.

At first he has a little jerk back, of surprise rather than fear, and soon after he is there again, looking for that touch. He is extremely uncertain, but he still responds to your unspoken requests, slowly letting his forehead rest on yours.

He exhales, as if he is releasing a great weight, but he immediately stiffens when you, without realizing it, are approaching his lips.

You wake up immediately from your numbness, before making a probable mistake, and try to get away, at least as long as his arms allow you.

"Please…"

That prayer from him is so feeble yet so meaningful. His gaze asks you to do it, to continue, because he wants it but he is still afraid of taking the initiative. He is putting the responsibility on you, and rightly so.

He is tense, you see it from his swallow and feel it from his tense muscles around you, but it's okay.

You approach again, slowly, gradually lowering your eyelids, a little by instinct and a little in the hope of putting him more at ease.

Kissing him is a special experience, and you like it - you wanted it so much -.

You are not intrusive, it is just a delicate touch, but it persists, leaving him time for him.

When he reciprocates, he does it slowly, unsure of how to proceed, probably troubled by the feelings he can give you or maybe just agitated by the situation. Yet, slowly, you feel it melt against you.

Slightly open your eyes to see that he too has closed them, and then you allow yourself to return to enjoy that moment, more peaceful and serene.

You huddle more, between yourselves, and let the desire flow through you, without going too far, simply enjoying the presence of each other, in your breaths that merge.

When you separate you do it only with your lips, but your gaze remains affectionate and aware.

In the end, that is nothing more than the confirmation of everything: of your knowing what time he should take his medicines and of his letting you know, of his knowing your favorite drink and which shower gel you always use, of cooking one by one. other, of looking so much like a couple for a long time already - and some of it is also the result of Larry's long tongue letting out a few too many words with his best friend.

You watch him as he puts his mask back on, and now you don't care anymore, because you know what's under it, and if that's his face then you've seen his soul.

Suddenly all your happiness is back. You are so happy that not even the bickering between Larry and Todd coming from the kitchen can upset you.

It must be something about the finished milk.

"I'm going to get it!"

You hum loud enough for the two to hear it, as you jump three steps at the same time, happily landing down the stairs.

Sal's laughter reaches you, and you turn to look at him. You like to see him happy, whatever the nature of that happiness.

"I come with you."

He tells you coming to you, reaching out his hand so that you can take it.

You're pretty sure you won't be able to stop smiling all night long.

*The image above is an old drawing of mine

[dadusty-chair]

A Good Enough Reason.

Larry Johnson (Sally Face) x GN!Reader

Genre: ANGSTY, kinda fluffy.

Reader depiction: soft spoken, kindhearted, sympathetic.

Warnings: suicide, character death, self doubt, reader is a ghost, suicide by overdose.

Note: this was all a dream I had last night so don't attack me 🥲

—----

(Y/n)

Being a ghost, you learn how terrible humanity is. You learn that the world likes to be so, so unfair to people who are already in awful situations. You learn that sometimes, those people need help.

I wish I wasn't bound to this awful place.

I had died hoping to go somewhere, anywhere but stay here. I don't know if I made the right choice now. I don't want to be dead anymore…I just wanted to get away from the life I was living. And now, I can't ever leave. So I'll prevent people from making the same mistake.

A few things to mention, as a ghost, yes, I can go through walls, haunt people and create illusions. Though, strangely enough, I can also physically interact with living people.

Which is probably how I was noticed by them.

Sal, Ash, Larry, Todd, the whole group. All because I forget that I can't go through the living sometimes. I was just hovering along with no thoughts when I bumped into someone a little too hard for how slow I was going. Letting out a sound of surprise, I looked over to see a girl in a purple shirt stumble slightly forward. Helping her regain balance, I mutter a small apology, when a strange device is pointed in my direction. "Ash, look!" A boy with long blue hair said, astonished. The girl runs over, looking excitedly at the device. "Woah…" she gushes, suddenly looking at me. They all gaze in my direction, and I take a moment to look each one over. The boy with the device had strange blue hair, wore a black shirt, red pants, and wore what I assume is a prosthetic face. A boy behind him was tall, with long brown hair, notably dark bags under his eyes, he wore a yellow shirt that had "SF" on it, and he was clearly bothered. The girl I bumped into has a shorter haircut, wore a purple shirt, and was noticably pretty. A boy with scarlet curly hair, glasses, and a green and white shirt stood beside her. "Uhm…hi." I say, slightly uncomfortable. The blue haired boy's eyes begin to sparkle, "hi!" He says, clearly enthusiastic. "How were you able to push ash over? How are you able to physically interact with her?" He pushes, getting too close. "I take it you're very excitable over this topic, though I assure you that I can't answer that question for myself either. My apologies for bumping into you by the way." I say, looking over to the 'Ash' girl. "Oh it's okay.." she says nervously.

And that's how it all started.

These people, they became my family. There was only one problem, Larry was always bothered and tired.

Fast forward a few years,I have tried my best to figure out what bothers Larry all the time to no avail. The best I can do is try to make him happy with some physical affection, late conversation, and to hang out around him as much as I can, because I fear he will make the same mistake I made by taking my own life. So, I guess one could say I'm trying to be a good enough reason for him to live. Maybe then I can put him and myself at peace.

The year 1999 was possibly worse than being stuck in my state.

I couldn't stop it.

I couldn't help.

I couldn't make him happy.

I couldn't be good enough.

I'm not a good enough reason to live.

I could've stopped him if I was paying attention, if I hadn't been practicing illusions, if I had been there telling him it'll get better, because it could've. It could've gotten so, so much better if we stayed.

2 months later

We float up to the top floor of the apartment complex, finding a room with my old belongings, at least the ones that I could preserve. "Why have I never seen this room before?" Larry asked, confused. "I'm an illusionist, Larry. I try to use it to my advantage. But there's one thing in her I want you to see." I tell him, looking down. I walk over to a large chest in the far corner to us. "Larry…you see this red ring around my neck?" I say, looking up. He stares for a moment. I open the chest and pull out a noose. "I made this mistake so long ago, and I knew something was bothering you. I tried to stop you, to make you know that everything would get better.. I tried to be a reason for you to live through it so we wouldn't end up in the same boat… now all we have left is what manifested from our regrets." I say. Looking back down. He doesn't know what to say, should he tell you that you are a perfectly good reason to live? But he already died…he's not sure how to console you. "I'm so sorry I couldn't stop you from making the same mistake."

[bileshroom]

how do you feel about the new sally face chapter?

Im glad you asked! under a read more for spoilers for chapter 5

Myself and Fox are giving our opinions in this post so it will be very long

There were things i really liked and things i really didnt like

for example, the swapping dimensions and the changing art styles were very neat! i liked some more than others, like the rubber hose style for sal could of been a bit different in my opinion, @shinysnek did an edit/drawing and tweeked the tiniest thing and made the design alot more palatable 

and the minigames were… really repetitive and sometimes very confusing ? esp todds door, the plus’s were almost impossible to notice! slightly darker grey against light grey just makes it look like part of the door :/ and the 3d bits were a bit hard to control during the later part of the game

and the writing,, it felt super rushed as if he just wanted to saddle alot of the damage onto native americans??? that completely came out of the blue, like he couldnt come up with some sort of cop out for why the cult is doing what they do

and still with the weird queer baiting with larry? like he made them brothers but is still pushing it, if steve wanted sal’s love interest to be ash why not have moments like ‘that’ with her instead?? it feels very uncomfortable in my opinion especially with him saying he was still,,comfortable with the ship which REALLY rubs me the wrong way

and the ending,,, dont even,, TALK to me about the ending, it honestly made me so upset?? like, and the epilogue to go with it,,, like okay cool the worlds still fucked over and todds still corrupt and larrys just gone??? for no real reason???????? hes just gone :| okay 

gnome larry was funny tho, didnt really explain why Larry got super old while megan stayed a 7 year old, i suppose you can explain it with like when ghosts arent bound to a place they can wither and age? i dunno whatever chapter 5 sucked and it felt like steve just didnt want to do it anymore

—

my turn! alright im going to be typing my opinion from a fellow writer and programmer’s POV.

the beginning of the game kinda drops you in which was a little surprising, considering the other chapters were very rich with exposition which is one of the things i loved about SF. 

It had this way of bringing you in even though you didnt know what the heck was going on. It made you want to learn more and it felt like you were THERE with sal. 

But this opening with just… ash tossed in fell a little… flat. yeah… graveyard… lets toss in some epitaphs as a reminder of who died, ok… cool. 

next lets talk a little about the general story. im not going to lie, this felt like a TOTALLY different game to me and I played them all in succession again to remind myself of the other chapters. 

It was so… plain. It didnt have the eerie-ness of the bologna incident, it didnt have the intriguing mystery of the first chapter where it started you off in the hospital as a little boy with your face hidden, it didnt have that heart wrenching storyline of the 4th chapter.

it was just…. “i need to end this game quick”. 

there was just a unique feeling to the other chapters, something that made you feel gritty and floaty, like you were a dirty teenager hunting for ghosts.

Saddling the natives on the unexplained reason as well… BIG YIKES, steve. the silent hill movies pulled this crap too, and we can all see how flat that fell in comparison to the actual silent hill 3 game. 

There are so so many things you could do instead of that tired (and lets face it) racist stereotype. 

I thought it was going to have a deeper meaning, like… people have had cults for decades that didnt have to do with the natives. hell, he could have even kept with the weird alien theme he was going for. calling an ancient alien creature? that would be pretty badass.

The ending… fell disappointingly flat. ok… everyones dead? so you tortured sal and his pals for literally no reason? granted i didnt press the c4 button so im not sure how that path goes, but i doubt its any more satisfying. 

not to mention the constant queerbaiting that, at this point, makes me so uncomfortable.

yes we get it, steve. you think adopted brothers can fuck, and yeah, theres nothing TECHNICALLY wrong with it (and im using technically by definition, its still wrong in my eyes), but come on. can any of you tell me that wouldnt make you intensely uncomfortable? Its not ok what he did imo and i know its his characters, but steve? either dont make them brothers or stop fucking pushing their romantic interactions.

oh and lets talk about the only other canonly gay couple with any screen time! he killed the black one.

yep… just… let that sink in for a second. did he need to? absolutely not. at least not in such a pointless way.

didnt even give neil any character development tbh, just… token black gay man that needed to be there to be the motivator to search for todd. ok thanks, steve.

and travis (another not white character. no do not argue that hes “blonde”, sal has fucking blue hair and i WILL color pick travis if i have to). he was the other gay character who… yep, lemme look at my notes… died.

he didnt even get much of a redemption tbh, yeah he was secretly helping them, but… wow. toss him in the hole! we dont want to write gays!!! (unless we’re taunting people to get them to play under the guise of “lgbt representation”)

also larrys a gnome and is just… gone forever. just say you hate larry, steve. you didnt have to do him so dirty man.

now then, lets talk about the gameplay.

i was playing with an xbox controller so im going to be from that POV.

the controls were… ok for the most part. the 3d part was a bit hard to see and i got stuck trying to walk past the trees a lot. 

to be honest, the 3d is my only complaint with controls. the mini game later on where youre 3d and shooting tentacles was very hard to control, half the time it wouldnt move fast enough and the other half it would zip past the diagonals. i DID beat it, but i am a very good gamer. to other people who might not play games constantly, might have a bit more trouble and get frustrated.

the puzzles were bland and repetitive. im a horror puzzle game writer and i would NEVER do something this blasphemous in a horror style game. it removes you from the game to think “wow…. THIS puzzle AGAIN?”. it makes you feel like its insulting your intelligence, like “oh here you go you fucking baby, move the shape to match the other shape”

and one of the only other puzzles was that fucking door number puzzle. he made the pluses almost impossible to see for starts, and i KNOW other people had trouble with this. Wanna know how to fix this? make the pluses easier to see and make it so the input pad can only except the number of numbers that the code it. dont make me sit there like a jackass, typing in every conceivable way to order the numbers given.

all in all though, the gameplay was plain, the storyline was bland, the puzzles were mediocre and the only reason to play the chapter is to close up the story and to find out what happened to sal and his mom (which tbh was the only good part because i was actually surprised and excited that it was that that injured him)

i hope in steves next projects he actually figures out how to write an ending and doesnt rush it (and please keep in mind this was rushed even though he had multiple people helping him)

-fox

[aforgottenballad]

Feelings on Sally Face Episode 5

Under a read more for obvious reasons, includes heavy spoilers and potentially triggering subjects. 

Disclaimer: I might miss-remember some parts of the story or have missed a piece of lore that would settle minor complaints. I am however disappointed in the ending as a whole and in some of the very harmful tropes included in it. But I’m also just some dude online with an opinion, and you can stop reading at any time. 

Rant under cut. 

Alright ya’ll. I’ve had a couple days to digest the ending to Sally Face.  While playing, I genuinely enjoyed some elements of the game. The chapter started on a dark but nearly hopeful note. Neil and Ash were still working to bring the cult down. It seemed likely Sal would be resurrected. Todd had apparently escaped the hospital, and that had potential to be either a very very good or very very bad thing. Maple was possessed by whatever fucked up the souls of the other apartment tenants, but hey! At least her and Neil weren’t in on the cult like so many fans predicted. Unfortunately, this series has a way of getting darker and darker as it progresses.  First thing that bugged me was the lore drop about how the cult was founded.  A Native American tribe. Right. Because why wouldn’t Indigenous peoples be in a story without being part of some mystical occult backstory, portrayed as mysterious historical props who worshiped something dark and evil instead of being portrayed as human beings. 

But I continued. I really enjoyed playing as Ashley and getting some insight into her character. I enjoyed the task of planting the C4 in the temple... catacomb... thing. We get to see Travis again! I was excited that a lot of us were right about him being indoctrinated but also working to fight the cult from the inside. We knew he had some good in him after all. 

When Ash tries to resurrect Sal, we get even more insight into her character, and unfortunately a lot of it is “Grieving, distraught, and full of self-blame”. I want to hug her.  Sal’s spirit is apparently revived by those pyramids, and he can dimension warp. We meet Jim, or what’s left of him, and he doesn’t give a fuck about anything anymore but agrees to help Sal anyway. This is, narratively speaking, weird as hell. His entire character arc for four episodes was “Loved his family so much he sacrificed himself to save them”, and suddenly he’s just some glowy dude attached to Magic Spirit Tubes who doesn’t give half a shit. I guess it makes sense as a way to wrap up why he’s been able to drift between worlds but... if he doesn’t care about any of that anymore why help Sal? And what about Rosenberg? Is she like Jim, or do we just have to assume she’s magical because her family helped found the cult? (Explained in an easter egg later on, because this game doesn’t just drop its lore. Not even the CRUCIAL lore. You have to achievement hunt for it.) Sal can enter various doors in the House In The Void to step into alternate realities, and this was my favorite aspect of the game. Each door has a different art style, and I really liked seeing these alternate realities. Steve probably worked the hardest and longest on drawing out and coding these scenes. I genuinely applaud the man for the work put into this endeavor I’m assuming all by himself. 

Meanwhile, Ash tries to unbind Larry’s soul from the tree house he died in, which doesn’t work. Did we ever find out why his body was never found? No? Ok that seems important.

After each puzzle, Sal’s body is restored a little bit at a time, but even after turning on all the pyramids and solving the mysteries behind all three doors, he can’t make it back to the “real” world. So Ashley kills herself. Or tries to. Because apparently that’s the only way to complete the ritual, and also because she feels really bad about not unbinding Larry’s soul and about not fixing Sal. Again, I want to hug her, but I have to watch her hurt herself instead, cause Steve doesn’t let us have nice things.

Okay, so this is a gorey game. We know. But one of the BIGGEST no-nos suicide prevention networks will tell you when consulting them about mental illness and suicide in media is NOT to show a graphic suicide in progress. Steve is aware a lot of his fans are A) Young teens to young adults B) Struggling with mental illness. 

His main character suffers from depression and anxiety and this fact has resonated with hundreds of fans. It’s irresponsible to purposefully include a graphic suicide attempt, but he did it last chapter, showing a gunshot suicide’s aftermath, then he did it again with Ashley. Call me a wiener if you like, point out the graphic scenes from earlier in the game and call me a hypocrite for not being upset by that, but you have to admit the Spongebob-close-up-shot look to those scenes have a totally different feel. Speaking as someone who actually has a pretty thick skin, but is concerned about the fans who might be in a worse place or who could be as young as 12, that was fucked up. 

Anyway, Ash’s attempt doesn’t take, because she’s struck by magic lightning, which infuses Sal’s soul into her. Now her arm is one of those stretchy sticky hands, but with bio luminescence and the ability to kick cultist ass. I actually thought this part was really cool, and was super ready to go on a cultist smacking spree. But again, we can’t have nice things and before we get to do anything badass we have to look at gruesome imagery again. 

You get to see Void Larry, who is now old and a wizard or something, but first...

Surprise! Maple and Neil are dead! Not just dead, but hung up from hooks covered in blood! And naked! 

Hey?? Hey Steve????? You know how they’re both POC?? And that lynching imagery is EXTREMELY NOT GOOD?!!????

“Two white people are hung up with them” YEAH? WELL WE’VE NEVER SEEN THOSE CHARACTERS BEFORE. THEY’RE JUST RANDOM PEOPLE.

I’ve seen people arguing “The white characters go through terrible things too” but it’s still really fucked up that by the end of the game, every. Single. Person of color. In the game. Has died. Gruesomely. It’s a gorey, dark, bleak game, and white characters die as well, gruesomely; but not all of them. None of them that are named are shown strung up, naked. That’s fucked up. That isn’t okay. 

There are also a total of three gay characters in this game. One is Todd, who goes through the standard “bad bad stuff” the game is used to, is the white one, and he survives. One is Neil, one of the aforementioned people of color who died horribly and who only really existed to be Todd’s boyfriend and therefore a source of angst for Todd when he dies. The third is Travis, another man of color, and an abuse victim, who dies to fulfill his character arc as an abuse victim, which is also really shitty to see over and over again as an abuse survivor. 

Look, I know Steve pulled a lot of inspiration from old TV shows and horror series that probably weren’t all “politically correct”. I know it’s always been kind of an edgy and dark game. I know Steve probably didn’t think about the repercussions of all his narrative choices. But I also know he actively ignored some people offering to educate him on issues he has no experience with. I know he worked hard on this game, by himself, but we as fans have paid him and waited for years and it isn’t selfish or ungrateful to be hurt and disappointed. He knows his audience is diverse, he knows a lot of us were attracted to the game because of a gender nonconforming main character, a main character who struggles with mental illness, a cast that isn’t 100% white and conventionally attractive. Of course he didn’t need to change the plot for us! It’s his game, his vision, but the least he could have done is research how to not actively hurt and alienate a good portion of us.  I don’t think anyone is bad or racist for still finding solace in the characters and in what the story was before this, I’m not attacking you personally, whoever is reading this. I, personally, still have loads of Sally Face art in my queue, I still have active role plays going on, my Sal wig is sitting like 8 feet away waiting for the next time my friends want to take cosplay pictures. I still enjoyed playing the game for the most part. Without this game I wouldn’t even know most of my current friends. It’s just really shitty how it ended like this, and a lot of people I talk to daily either feel too sick to even talk about the game anymore after seeing people like them treated like trash by the narrative or try to focus on the good things they got out of just being part of the fandom but don’t feel comfortable supporting the developer anymore. 

Even if there wasn’t all these hurtful tropes packed into the game, and yes, even after unlocking the epilogue, the game just feels cold. It feels rushed, probably because of how much time went into the alternate dimension gimmick. I wish Steve had at least consulted people over the script. It felt like not only did he pour all his work into experimenting with the mixed media, he also just took whatever expectations the fans had and went somewhere completely different just to have his story be “unpredictable”. That isn’t always a good thing. Plot twists, downer endings, dark and scary imagery, all of these things can be done beautifully, but in this case it felt like he just wanted the series to end. The game didn’t subvert expectations, it fed into the harmful stereotypes and tropes all the fans were so hopeful it wouldn’t. 

...On top of not making any sense unless you’re able to 100% all the puzzles. And even when you do, it feels like all the bad stuff happened for no reason. The ending doesn’t conclude anything. Even when you unlock the epilogue, all it tells you is that a third of the world has died and that the main cast haven’t accomplished much besides “Trying to help”. Sal and Todd have powers now, but that isn’t elaborated on much. Larry’s spirit is missing, if he even exists in any plane at all anymore. It doesn’t even mention what’s going on with Ash.  It just feels like nothing mattered. 

[0livec0w]

How was Sally Face chapter 5?

HJDGTVFH OKAY IT’S TIME TO YELL

(insane chapter 5 sf spoilers below. I’m gonna spoil the shit out of it)

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okay so all in all. IT’S ACTUALLY KIND OF AN EH FOR ME. I feel like it kinda got a bit of the fnaf treatment meaning that a once cool and dark plotline got too complicated for its own good. I would have loved for all of the cult stuff to have just been in Sal’s twisted mind and for him to have actually been off the shits. It would’ve been great seeing him so certain he’s correct, that he’s not mad, that he HAD to kill all those people, and watching that all crumble once he realized he had made it all up. I feel like Travis wasn’t explored enough. His character did a 180 degree switch in two seconds. We barely know anything about him. The first four chapters did an INCREDIBLE job with the pacing and the slow burn, but it feels like a million things got crammed as tightly as they could into this chapter. The first four chapters seriously were astounding at character development. I grew to love every single character and I feel like this chapter kinda brushed it off. Sal seemed generic. A hollow husk that you move around with no personality. One thing I thought was cool was the different style changes throughout the game. It was a little out of nowhere but I really enjoyed it! And the hexagon puzzles are my fav. OH. PUZZLES. CAN WE TALK ABOUT HOW THAT TEMPLE PUZZLE TOOK ONE AND A HALF HOURS TO COMPLETE??? IT WAS BULLSHIT AND MADE ME ANGRY. all the rest were fine after that. I enjoyed the puzzles for the most part ^^ OKAY THE FINAL BATTLE SCENE. It was crazy, don’t get me wrong. But it didn’t feel like it carried any weight at all. The guitar battle at the end of chapter 4 was AWESOME. AND IT WAS ACTUALLY CHALLENGING! I had to try hard to win and the victory carried weight. This one felt rushed and hollow. Everything in this chapter felt rushed and hollow. The final battle lasted half a second and was too simple. I enjoyed the chaos of fighting through the other worlds, but it was too fast. (ALSO CAN WE TALK ABOUT LARRY FGDHTREGVDHS WIZARD LOOKIN MF DFGVHTREAW AHAHAHA HE LOOKED REDICULOUS) I thought that Larry’s dad’s plotline fell flat on its face. It had a lot of good stuff going for it but LArry didn’t even get to see him! WTF??? seriously dude. He shows up, says a million cryptic things, then we never see him again. I loved the ominous feel of Sal’s afterlife and how his model looked. It was a great atmosphere and design. The first time we see Sal in chapter 5 was probably my favorite part. The build-up was good at the beginning of the chapter but it quickly gains too much momentum and loses you. Also, Ashley’s arm? that was never really explained. It was kinda like “lmao Sal did you do this?” “yes.” “okay makes sense” NO IT DOESN’T. WHY DO YOU HAVE ALL THESE NOTES? HOW DID TODD FIGURE THIS OUT?? I would’ve loved to play through that note gathering phase and learn more about the ghost and cult on your own. speaking of the ghosts, where tf did they all go. They just all disappeared at the beginning of the 4th chapter. wack. I miss Megan. So all in all, did I have fun? yes. Did I have as much fun as the other four chapters? ehhhhh. I still adore Sal and everyone, don’t get me wrong. I’ll probably make a shit ton of fanart anyways even if this ending was a little underwhelming. I can’t pretend like the last chapter ruined the other four. They’re still as incredible as always. Thank you Steve! I’m sorry I ripped apart this chapter but you truly have made an impressive and spectacular game. I will cherish it for many years to come.

[dappercritter]

You have been granted the oppurtunity to recast your favorite animated movie! The only catch is that each of the characters in said movie are animated characters from different shows/movies (X from show/movie is Bob, X from show/movie is Larry, ect.)

Hoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo boi. You have no idea what you’ve just unleashed, my friend!

Once long ago, before the Cringe Ages, I loved recasting my favourite and sometimes least favourite movies with characters from my favourite shows. But then I started taking storytelling more seriously and sentimentally and… art-y, and I started acting as if I was above the stuff somehow. To this day, I still don’t know whether to blame the masses or my own hubris.

But now! Now, the floodgates of my childish, innocent mind are open once more! And I have just the idea: The Nightmare Before Christmas but with Villainous and Batman* characters! (With a few CN villains on the side.) So, I guess you could call it…

The Villainous Nightmare Before Batman! 

(No, wait. Uhhhhh…)

The Dark Knight Before Villainous!

Ok, yeah, that should do.

Now you’re probably asking yourself, “Dapper Critter, what are you doing this? Sure, Batman meets Villainous could work, but why are you bringing The Nightmare Before Christmas into this? It’s not even Halloween or Christmas! What are you thinking?!” Well, first of all, Christmas and Halloween aren’t just holidays, they’re states-of-mind. Second, I think it’s time you guys learned something important: I’m a big ol’ lowkey goth baby, baby! If it’s spooky or gothic, I’ll soak it up like a sponge in sink full of soapy water. And nothing says gothic like the hero of a city literally called “Gotham,” a show with a grotesque monster hiding behind the guise of a well-dressed man, and the classic story of Jack Skellington himself! What’s more, all three of these hold a special place in my heart, as they all played a huge part in helping me develop and realize my interest in gothic culture. Lastly, I can see the worlds of these three stories coming together quite easily. Behold, this plot pitch I just made!

“Another Halloween has come and gone in CN City, and another cheerful Christmas is on its way. Black Hat, unofficial master of all that is dark and evil, is thoroughly disgusted that the multiverse will soon be returning to it’s obnoxiously cheerful and wholesome state. He morosely tears a hole through time and space to talk a walk through reality, miserable that he’s stuck living in such a wonderful place. That is until he stumbles upon the city of Gotham, where no matter what time of year it is, the streets are filled with misery and malicious mayhem. Delighted, he sets out to celebrate Christmas his own way: by taking a certain caped-crusader out of the picture and making Gotham his very own holiday vacation home! Little does he know, there’s one special girl who thinks he can celebrate right where he is, as well as a certain clown who’s got his own sinister Christmas party in mind…”

So now that I’ve convinced you, I think it’s time we got down to the actual recasting! Let’s begin, my darling children of the Hot Topic night…

Black Hat as Jack Skellington: This couldn’t have been easier—they’re both creepy gentlemen with excellent taste in fashion. Yes, I know Black Hat is a lot less nice than our dear Pumpkin King, but let’s just say this story takes the odd liberty here and there. Not to mention, Black Hat could easily match Jack’s enthusiasm, intelligence, style, and obsessive inquisitions. Plus, he could totally pull off an evil Santa suit. (Though to be honest, I’m not sure if his snarling, slimy, cockney-accented voice could match Danny Elfman’s melodious singing.)

Demencia as Sally: A devoted, mildly ghoulish, and totally cute fangirl who’s always pining after their darling idol, and who may or may not have been made in a lab? It’s like this fancast is writing itself! Demencia might be a bit more proactive—and scary—in the plot, but I can see her a lot Sally’s dilemma in her as she tries to get Black Hat to notice her and not to abandon them in pursuit of a crazy dream. (Well, that I’m filthy Lizardhat trash.)

Dr. Flug as Dr. Finklestein: Flug, being the only mad scientist who’s employed by Black Hat, as well as the only to survive this, seems like a good pick. Sure, he’s not in a wheelchair and, no, he’s not as creepy as the bugger, but he could still work as our horrid hero’s right-hand man. Plus, since a big part of his canon character is putting up with Demencia’s BS (tell my family that means “baloney-sandwich”), he’d also do great as the one trying to keep the free-spirited love interest under control. Only here, it would be because he’s trying to keep Dem out of trouble so she doesn’t make his boss mad and try to kill him, as opposed to… whatever Finklestein’s problem is. And of course, he can still be menacing if need be. (Just watch the Lost Cases of Townsville and The Tree House…)

5.0.5. as Zero: A cute animal sidekick is a cute animal sidekick, I always say! And 5.0.5. was basically designed to be the ultimate cutesy animal sidekick. Therefore, he can be basically do anything Zero did. Try to cheer up Black Hat? Check. Pull Black Hate’s sleigh? Why couldn’t he? Yeah, he can’t be a flying ghost dog with a glowing nose, but I could just throw bedsheet on him (it was just after Halloween after all) and maybe say he swallowed that anti-gravity device.

Batman as Santa Claus: For Santa Clause, I needed someone who could be the absolute good guy in a world filled with bad guys and weirdos, much like Santa was in the movie. Likewise, since Jack kidnapped Santa to take over Christmas, Black Hat would need to kidnap the guy in charge of Gotham in order to take it for himself. So, of course he’s going to go after it’s #1 protector. I can also see Batman being the voice of reason in this madcap story. Not to mention that he could pull off a Santa suit even better than Black Hat! (In fact…)

The Joker as Oogie Boogie: This one I had some trouble with. I kept asking myself stuff like, “who would be brave enough to usurp Black Hat?,” “who could match Oogie’s siz—er, presence?” or “who would want to kidnap Santa Claus?,” and “Who would be into gambling and crazy funhouse stuff?” And then it came to me: The Joker. I mean, he’s got charisma, a sense of menace, he’s a cutthroat who loves to play with his enemies, and almost always has a big ol’ amusement park deathtrap on hand. Sure, he wouldn’t have the creepy demise like Oogie, but he could get a good beating and traumatizing from Black Hat and/or Demencia (who’d really hate being a damsel in distress, I imagine).

The Delightful Children from Down the Lane as Lock, Shock, and Barrel: At first, I thought of using other Batman villains or Shannon, Darrell, and Ernesto from OK K.O.!, but then I thought it would make more sense to have child villains from a CN show who could do bad things for slime-balls like Black Hat and Joker with pleasure. I instantly thought of these scheming, little monsters from Codename: Kids Next Door (an old favourite of mine). Although they’re usually talk and act in unison, they could have some comical bickering now and then. (After all, “Lenny is an idiot.”) Likewise, I can see Black Hat using Batman’s affinity for young people to get him while his guard’s down. They could make for great trick r’ treaters as well!

Lord Boxman as The Mayor: The mayor wasn’t a very important character, but he was definitely a memorable one, and the first character I thought of who could match his dual personality was Lord Boxman from OK K.O.! They both act like leaders but are really terrible at their jobs, suck up to better villains, and throw a whimpering tantrum like nobody else. (Also, I get to imagine Jim Cummings singing lines from The Nightmare Before Christmas songs, so that’s nice.)

Various CN Villains as The Citizens of Halloween Town: Like with The Mayor and the Trick R’ Treaters, I like to think that the various CN villains who cameoed in the Villainous Orientation series would show up as the denizens of the seedier side of CN City which—as you probably guessed—would be standing in for Halloween Town. Unfortunately, I do not have an encylcopediac knowledge of either Halloween Town residents, nor CN villains, so I’ll just list the ones I can remember and am the most proud of without offering any real justification.

Nohyas as Mr. Hyde: I couldn’t think of anyone besides Black Hat with a fancy hat or smaller versions of himself. Nohyas just so happens to have a suitable villain’s hat, and Handre (his hand puppet) could work in place of tiny clones living under his hats. (And yes, I like Mighty Magiswords. Deal with it.)

Zombozo as Clown with the Tear-Away Face: I don’t believe all creepy clowns look the same, but a ghoulish clown could easily stand in for another. Plus, I used to be a big Ben 10 fan, so I thought I ought to work something in.

Donny as Behemoth: This grass ogre from Adventure Time was more of an outright jerk than Behemoth, but he has a softer side so that would make him a great candidate for a resident gentle giant.

Loony Toons’ Dracula, Billy and Mandy’s Dracula, and Count Spankula as The Vampire Brothers: Do I really need to explain this one?

The Red Guy as Devil: I sure don’t need to elaborate on this one.

The Gangreen Gang as the Zombie Band: The Gangreens were basically based off edgy bands of the late 90’s, and thanks to Gorillaz, we know Ace can play the bass like a boss. Also, I can totally hear Ace saying, “Nice work, bone-daddy.”

Earl (AKA Dopey Black Hat) as Igor: Earl doesn’t get enough to do, inside or outside of Villainous canon.

The Beast as The Hanging Tree: Yeah, I know, I’m messed-up.

HIM as Harlequin Demon: Seriously, this one cast itself!

The Queen of the Black Puddle as Undersea Gal: I don’t watch Courage the Cowardly Dog much, but I remember seeing this villainess once before and I instantly thought she’d be a dead-ringer!

Morbidia and Gateaux as The Witches: Another natural casting derived from my soft spot for Mighty Magiswords. Although Gateaux is a male and a tall one at that, he’s perfect for being a huge suck-up. (I originally considered Miss Endive from Chowder and Duchess from Fosters’ Home for Imaginary Friends, but then I remembered that no matter what they dressed-up as, they’d be unlikeable.)

Monstrous Black Hat as The Monster Under the Bed: Like Earl and the other Black Hat clones, he doesn’t get enough love. (Though this may be a good thing, since he seems too nasty to receive or return it…)

Rob as The Melting Man: There aren’t a lot of CN villains who are melting, per se, but I figured this poor bad guy from Amazing World of Gumball and his unique media-mixed malformity could work.

Biowolf as The Wolfman: Because they’re both well designed wolfmen and I refuse to forget Generator Rex.

The Robins, Batgirl, and Alfred as the Elves: If Batman’s going to be Santa, then his support staff/family might as well be his helpers. Not to mention, they’d look great in cute little elf outfits happily working on Batman’s gadgets in preparation for the big Christmas crime wave.

The Justice League as The Army: Someone needs to show up to shoot-down Black Hat and his idea of Christmas at the end, and since he’s kidnapped Batman, I think it only makes sense that the Justice League would retaliate and come to clean up Black Hat’s mess. He’d also get a reminder that he isn’t just in Gotham City, he’s in the DC universe.

Unikitty as The Easter Bunny: I have my reasons. Them being, Unikitty is good at being sweet and innocent, the episode “Batkitty,” and her world is one of the few Black Hat has interacted with so far. I like to think that’s because he’s too repulsed by her cuteness to touch it. So imagine his reaction when the Delightful Children bring him to her by accident while she’s cosplaying as LEGO Batman or something.

And there you have it! I had a lot of fun making this recast. It was a great way to step out of my comfort zone and to have some fun. Not to mention, I had an excuse to listen to the Nightmare Before Christmas soundtrack early. I sincerely hope you like it as much as I do, @good-guy-is-alive!

Now I just need to make sure Black Hat himself doesn’t see this, or else he might find me and—

Oh no.

No, please, Mister Black Hat, sir, you don’t understand. I just was doing this for fun. I wasn’t trying to make you look—

OH NO.

NO!

NOOOOOOOOOOjglkajgflkjdshGH;LJF’W abfklghlfuGFARGTADS!!!#%RQ#@!

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*Since DC changes their Batman shows like people change their socks, we’ll just say that this is your standard DCAU/Bruce Timmverse Batman.

[bluewatsons]

Jon Savage, Meek by name, wild by nature, The Guardian (November 11, 2006)

The extraordinary producer Joe Meek recorded British pop's first out and out gay classic, and within six months had shot himself dead. Jon Savage traces the impact of sexuality on Meek's life in the Sixties when persecution and criminal prosecution were very real threats

On 12 August, 1966, the Tornados released their last ever record with Joe Meek. Beginning with the sound of waves and seagulls, 'Is That a Ship I Hear?' bore all its producer's hallmarks: the boot-stomping drums, the extraterrestrial keyboard sound, and fierce, fierce compression. Like its predecessor, 'Pop-Art Goes Mozart', it was constructed around a gimmick. Meek hoped that the title and the ocean effects would convince the DJs on the pirate stations - Radio Caroline, Radio London, Radio City et al - to put his new record on heavy rotation. Just when the pirates' influence on the British charts was at its height, it seemed like a good angle.

However, this was not the Tornados' time. On 12 August, Revolver was on its first week in the British record shops. Blonde on Blonde was issued on the same day as 'Is That a Ship I Hear?'. While the Dylan album got detailed track by track rundowns in the British music press, the Tornados got short shrift: 'a whistleable little melody of promise'; 'good of its kind and doubtless a hit three years ago, but not for today's market'. It had been a long slow fall since 'Telstar', number one in the UK for five weeks in autumn 1962: the group hadn't had a hit since late 1963 and there were none of the original members left.

Yet while 'Is That a Ship I Hear?' was a shameless attempt to ride the pirate wave, the flip was something quite different. 'Do You Come Here Often?' begins as a flouncy organ-drenched instrumental and stays that way for over two minutes. By that time, most people - had they even bothered to even turn the record over - would have switched off. Had they remained they would have heard two sibilant, obviously homosexual voices bitching, well, just like two queens will.

The scenario is the toilet in a London gay club, possibly the Apollo or Le Duce. The organist is still pumping away, but that's only background, as the sound dims and the bar atmosphere comes in.

'Do you come here often?'

'Only when the pirate ships go off air.'

'Me too.' (giggles)

'Well, I see pyjama styled shirts are in, then.'

'Well, pyjamas are OUT, as far as I'm concerned anyway.'

'Who cares?'

'Well, I know of a few people who do.'

'Yes, you would.'

'WOW! These two, coming now. What do you think?'

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'Mmmmmm. Mine's all right, but I don't like the look of yours.'

(A sniffy pause)

'Well, I must be off.'

'Yes, you're not looking so good.'

'Cheerio. I'll see you down the 'Dilly.'

'Not if I see you first, you won't.'

Exeunt, to swelling organ.

This brief but diverting exchange has the ring of authenticity. Its bickering is not just beastliness but the most important component of the camping which, as English academic Richard Dyer writes, is 'the only style, language and culture that is distinctively and unambiguously gay male'. In its social mode, camp privileges a caustic wit, best expressed by the quick-fire verbal retort, partly as a form of aggression, partly as a form of self-mockery, partly as a form of self-defence. It's an insider code that completely baffles the heterosexual majority, as it's meant to. (Why are they being so horrible to each other? Because it's good sport, and good practice for when you really need it.)

Like the Negro 'dirty dozens' - the ritualised insults of the Twenties and Thirties that have become embedded in rap - the camping spotlighted on 'Do You Come Here Often?' represents a complicated response to a hostile world. Its poisoned psychological arrows can help to control and neutralise the threat of homophobic violence: many bullies are right to fear the queen's forked tongue. Camping can provide a bulwark from which the gay man can sally forth into the world at large: it freezes the typecasting of homosexuals as effeminate, internalises it, and then throws it back in the face of the straight world as a kind of revenge.

However, that long 'mmmmmm', reverberating right through the diaphragm down to the male G-spot, gets to the heart of the matter. Meek's queen bitches are briefly united by an unstable mixture of camaraderie and competitiveness. Ever hopeful, ever alert, the gay man in cruising mode is relentless in pursuit of cock: the usual social rules go right out of the window. Sex drives the gay scene, its iconography, its economy, its inner and outer life. Meek's scenario highlights that heart-stopping instant, that highwire walk between acceptance and rejection that every gay man knows: when the Adonis turns into a Troll - not just the object of your desire but your own self.

'Do You Come Here Often?' was an extraordinary achievement: the first record on a UK major label - Columbia, part of the massive EMI empire - to deliver a slice of queer life so true that you can hear its cut-and-thrust in any gay bar today. Before 1966, homosexuality had been hinted at in odd mainstream records like Donovan's 'I'll Try For the Sun' or the Kinks' 'See My Friends', indeed had saturated Meek epics like 'Johnny Remember Me', but the allusions had been veiled. They didn't offer an insider viewpoint, just a mood or a stray word that seemed to briefly open a door usually locked and barred.

Since the early Sixties, there had been a trickle of products aimed at a market that was so off- the map as to be beyond marginal. Apart from Rod McKuen's vague but signifying spoken-word albums such as In Search of Eros , all of them were on tiny, fly-by-night labels. They took two different forms. Some took the Rod McKuen path: the sad young men, fated to wander through the twilight world of the third sex, condemned, like Peter Pan, to always be on the outside looking in. Their sensitive meditations on lust and loneliness were dramatised by covers of show tunes.

While these tragic figures, in accepting their exiled status, took care to be non-specific, the period's other archetypes were far more feisty. Unlike their more sober compatriots, drag queens could not pass, and so camping was honed into a corrosive chatter that could strip paint at 10 paces. Dovetailing into the market for outrageous adult albums by the likes of Rusty Warren ( Banned in Boston! ), nitroglycerin queens like Rae Bourbon, Mr Jean Fredericks and Jose from the Black Cat offered frank meditations on queer life: 'Nobody Loves a Fairy When She's 40', 'Sailor Boy', et al. Too real and too ghettoised, none had a hope of finding any wider distribution.

There were firm reasons for this state of affairs.

Although the law that would decriminalise it was passing through Parliament during 1966, homosexuality was still illegal in the UK, as it was in the US: punishable by prison and social ostracism. However, laws do not always reflect contemporary realities, and gay people continued to conduct their illegal sexual and social lives. For older men like Joe Meek, pleasure might have been irrevocably stained by guilt but, for the upcoming generation of 20 year olds, the Criminal Law Amendment Act 1885 was an anachronistic irrelevance. Fuck Lily Law and her evil twin, Laura Norder.

In fact, Joe Meek was unusually privileged, if only he had been able to take some comfort from that realisation. The music industry was one of the few places where gay men could be themselves, and indulge their sexual predilections in a way that was economically viable. Forty years ago, it was far from being the respectable career option that it is today, and indeed derived much of its energy from its outcast status. This was a natural consequence of its roots in showbusiness and theatre, but even more basic was the way in which the sexual and social aesthetic of genuine innovators such as Larry Parnes alchemised the raw material of working-class adolescents into hit parade gold. From 1957 on, Parnes bossed British rock'n'roll, and transformed all his Reginalds and Ronalds into a new Olympus peopled by emotional deities-cum-archetypes like Billy Fury, Dickie Pride, Vince Eager, Georgie Fame. His sensibility, and that of many who followed him, transmuted gay lust into the erotic longing that excited the passions of the young women who pushed these idols into the charts.

Meek arrived as the period's foremost independent producer with John Leyton's summer 1961 smash, 'Johnny Remember Me', an eldritch spasm that epitomised the heightened melodrama of teenage emotions. (Meek used to speed up all his records to achieve that very effect.) It also acted as a metaphor, for those who chose to hear, for the sense of loss and disassociation that many gay men then felt. 'Telstar' confirmed his elite sta tus and, although superseded by the Beat Boom, he was able to pull out huge hits such as 'Have I the Right?' by the Honeycombs, a summer 1964 number one and an oblique comment on his own blocked right to sexual and emotional fulfilment.

This was his last chart-topper, but Meek adapted to the prevailing conditions better than most of his contemporaries. Although identified with Fifties rock'n'roll - Buddy Holly and Eddie Cochran in particular - he was too restless and forward-thinking to get totally trapped in the past. He made a stone freakbeat classic with the Syndicats' 'Crawdaddy Simone', a Brit R'n'B record so frenzied that it put the Yardbirds' rave-ups to shame. His 1966 singles with the Cryin' Shames featured the sinuously menacing garage stomper, 'Come on Back', while the overwrought vocal contortions of 'Please Stay' - Meek's last ever hit - attracted the attention of Brian Epstein.

Although he found it difficult to place many of his productions during 1966, Meek was far from being a spent force: his interest in the possibilities of sound remained vital. He also remained a player among the British music industry's gay mafia. During the brief entente cordiale that followed 'Please Stay', Meek accompanied Brian Epstein to witness Bob Dylan's June 1966 Royal Albert Hall concert from the Beatles' box. When the freezing of all 'Telstar' royalties thanks to a copyright dispute threatened to render him bankrupt later in the year, Meek was thrown a lifeline by the EMI chairman, Sir Joseph Lockwood, who offered him a job as an in-house producer.

'Do You Come Here Often?' also emerged into a more open cultural climate. The playwright Joe Orton had used camp's caustic cadences in his smash 1964 West End success Entertaining Mr Sloane : this was the key weapon in his desired 'mixture of comedy and menace'. The extremely popular BBC radio serial Round the Horne featured two flagrant queens talking in the gay argot of the time. Executed by Hugh Paddick and Kenneth Williams, Julian and Sandy's quickfire Polari - that mixture of gypsy language, cockney backward slang, and thieves' cant - slotted right into the verbal surrealism that the Goons had made the hallmark of British comedy.

At the beginning of the decade, Meek had entitled his futuristic but stillborn space concept album I Hear A New World . Music is always ahead of social institutions, and the new world that Meek had dreamt of became tangible after 1963. The Beatles' unprecedented success marked the death knell of the Fifties hegemony, and during the next few years, the agitation for social and sexual liberation gathered pace throughout the Western world: the civil rights struggle, the women's movement, the campaigns for homosexual equality in America and Britain. The long years of stasis and repression banked up the flood, and it was ready to burst.

The most obvious sign of this uprising was teen fashion's hothouse blooms, as young women went Op and young men squeezed themselves into striped hip-huggers and polka-dot shirts - topped off with Prince Valiant bangs. 1966 saw the full mainstream media recognition of Swinging London and its associated fashion, mod. Trumpeting the 'revolution in men's clothes', Life's 13 May cover showed four young men, making like Brian Jones in front of the Chicago skyline. The cutaway teal corduroy jackets, Rupert Bear check trousers and fruit boots were not standard male gear, and the copy played up the freak-ish angle: 'The Guys Go All Out To Get Gawked At'.

Mod's hint of mint was not entirely in the heads of hostile observers. Peter Burton, who ran London's Le Duce in those years, remembered the crossover between the mods and his young gay clientele: 'both groups paid the same attention to clothes; both groups looked much alike.' Not surprising really, as their clothes came from the same shops - initially Vince in Carnaby Street (whose catalogue of swim- and underwear could almost be classified as an early gay magazine) and eventually from the John Stephen shops in the same street. Both groups took the same drug - basically 'speed', alternatively known as 'purple hearts', 'blues', 'doobs' or 'uppers'.

In February 1966, the Kinks had a huge UK hit with their dissection of this Carnebetian army. They backed up the risque 'Dedicated Follower of Fashion' - 'he pulls his frilly nylon panties right up tight' - with some extraordinary costumes, like the thigh-length leather waders sported with such gusto by Dave Davies. On the flip was one of the period's definitive statements of outsider pride, 'I'm Not Like Everybody Else', to be racked up against other garage band staples like the Yardbirds 'You're a Better Man Than I' and the Who's 'Substitute'. These calls for non-conformity and the acceptance of difference were becoming more and more strident.

This urgency defined pop's cutting edge during the first half of 1966: the unforeseen complexities and demands of 1965's emblematic records were amplified, their abrasion and innovation honed to a razor-sharp point. 1966 was a hot year, crowded with clamour and noise as seven-inch singles were cut to the limits of the then available technology. Hit 45s by the Yardbirds, the Rolling Stones, the Beatles, the Supremes, James Brown, the Byrds, the Who, Junior Walker, Wilson Pickett, and Bob Dylan were smart and mediated, harsh and sophisticated, monomaniacally on the one or, raga-like, right out of Western perception into the eternity of one chord.

A blistering hostility was in the air on 12 August, so much so that you could taste it. That day the Beatles faced the first concert of their third American tour, an event marred by the controversy surrounding John Lennon's comment that the group were 'more popular than Jesus'. The formerly inviolable avatars of youth were suddenly vulnerable as DJs burned Beatles' records and the Ku Klux Klan threatened.

Time magazine's 12 August cover - 'The Psychotic and Society' - featured Charles Whitman, the sniper who installed himself in the clock tower at the University of Texas and, without warning, killed 15 and wounded 31 people. The horror triggered an anguished self-examination: Whitman's 'senseless mayhem' was not an aberration but intimately linked to American society. 'Potential killers are everywhere these days,' a psychiatrist warned; 'they are driving their cars, going to church with you, working with you. And you never know it until they snap'.

Across the Atlantic, 12 August saw 'the worst crime London has known this century'. Around 3pm, three police officers stopped a suspicious looking van near Wormwood Scrubs prison, north of the mod stronghold Shepherd's Bush. All three were gunned down by the vehicle's three occupants. A 10-year-old boy saw the whole thing: 'I saw a man shoot the policemen,' he told the newspapers; 'it was horrible and I was so scared.' Cop-killing was a huge taboo, and the nation recoiled.

'Do You Come Here Often?' partook of that season of violence, as did its author. Its candid dialogue uncovered a deep seam of outcast aggression. Camp's downside is that, unless employed with a light touch and a sure understanding of the game's rules, its ritualised viciousness can reinforce the hostility of the wider society. Peter Bur ton remembered that when he was entering the gay scene in the mid-Sixties, nothing 'was more daunting as an encounter with some acid-tongued bitch whose tongue was so sharp it was likely to cut your throat. These queens, with the savage wit of the self-protective, could be truly alarming to those of us of a slower cast of mind.'

Internalised homophobia fuels the twisted expression of an outcast's low self-esteem: instead of fighting the oppressors, why not fight those nearest to hand? Donald Webster Cory's groundbreaking 1951 survey, 'The Homosexual in America', had clearly identified poor self-esteem as one of the greatest threats to gay men's mental health - infecting every aspect of life - but it was difficult, given society's attitudes, to break the cycle of prejudice and self-hatred. Despite his bravado, Meek felt his homosexuality as a deep source of shame. He was too stubborn to tell it otherwise than it was but, ultimately, 'Do You Come Here Often?' presented gay life as a nitroglycerin nightmare.

Born in April 1929, Meek was sensitive, almost clairvoyant, but highly volatile. Brought up as a girl for the first four years of his life by a mother who had hoped for a daughter, uninterested in most boyish pursuits, Joe was called a sissy and left alone by most of his peers. This difference, coupled with his hair-trigger temper, led to the start of the persecution (both real and imagined) that lasted for the rest of his life.

As soon as he could, Meek fled rural England for London, but in the late Fifties, despite his reputation as one of the best sound engineers in the capital, he remained haunted by the fact that his emotional and sexual orientation was illegal. This laid him open, as it did generations of gay men, to ridicule, arrest, imprisonment, violent attacks and - perhaps worst of all - blackmail. In November 1963, Meek was arrested for cottaging, importuning in a public toilet: the news of his conviction made the front page. His friends were amazed. Joe could have had all the young men he wanted, as they were queuing up to be recorded by him: they concluded that he actually liked the risk.

It didn't help that Meek was spooky: obsessed with other worlds, with graveyards, with spiritualism. He claimed to be in regular contact with Buddy Holly through the spirit world, while the negativity that he experienced clung to him like worn-out, not yet shed skin. Charles Blackwell - who arranged 'Johnny Remember Me' - remembered Joe as scarier than Phil Spector: 'He was a split personality. He believed he was possessed, but had another side that was very polite with a good sense of humour. He was very complicated.' Meek terrified the usually confident Andrew Loog Oldham: 'He looked like a real mean-queen teddy boy and his eyes were riveting'.

By mid-1966, Meek's mental state was worsening as his heyday receded into the past. Giving free rein to his instincts with 'Do You Come Here Often?', he gained satisfaction from exposing a reality long suppressed. But this was a small victory, a transient revenge, as the forces ranged against him gathered speed. Jekyll overtook Hyde, as his money troubles and declining fame caused him to up his pill intake and to dabble further in the occult. He was beaten up and his prized Ford Zodiac trashed. He was also threatened by gangsters who wanted to take over the Tornados' management. His paranoia was justified; his loneliness became all-consuming.

Meek's slide into the depths of decline was played out against a minatory pop climate. Disturbance had already hit the US top 10 that summer with Napoleon XIV's banshee 'They're Coming to Take Me Away' and Count Five's 'Psychotic Reaction'. During September and October, the pure punk propulsion of Love's 'Seven and Seven Is', the Yardbirds' 'Happenings Ten Years Time Ago' and the Rolling Stones' 'Have You Seen Your Mother, Baby, Standing in the Shadow?' rode the year's white line fever right off the rails. The last was an amphetamined apocalypse, glossed thus by Andrew Loog Oldham: 'The Shadow is the uncertainty of the future. The uncertainty is whether we slide into a vast depression or universal war.' Later that autumn, David Bowie's 'The London Boys' and the Kinks' 'Big Black Smoke' delivered bleak cautionary tales of speed psychosis. Meek's own productions - the few that were actually released - had already reached new levels of pill-saturated oddity: the bizarre helter-skelter rhythm of Jason Eddy and the Centremen's 'Singing the Blues', the nuclear-winter visions of Glenda Collins's late protest, 'It's Hard to Believe It'.

Like the Marvelettes sang, the hunter gets captured by the game, and, in January 1967, Meek's game was up. While his last ever single, the Riot Squad's 'Gotta Be a First Time', was dismissed as 'a corny bit of beat', he was implicated by association with a gruesome gay crime dubbed 'the Suitcase Murder'. Although the hapless producer had nothing to do with the young victim's dismemberment, the police interest tipped him over the edge. On 2 February, he burst into a friend's house all dressed in black, claiming he was possessed. The next morning, the 18th anniversary of Buddy Holly's death, he blasted his landlady with his shotgun before eating the barrel himself.

Joe Meek's was an extreme pathology, to be sure, with its incredible highs - just listen to the aerated hysteria of John Leyton's 'Wild Wind' - and annihilating lows, but what remains shocking is just how much his suicidal impulse was shared by many gay men of his generation. In his diary for 11 March 1967, Joe Orton wrote about a conversation he had with his friend Kenneth Williams, by then a national figure in the UK for his appearances in Round the Horne and the Carry On film series. Orton found Williams 'a horrible mess' sexually: 'He mentions "guilt" a lot in conversation. "Well, of course there is always a certain amount of guilt attached to homosexuality".'

Williams talked to Orton about a friend who had been caught soliciting: 'Found in a cottage she was,' he said. 'They gave her a choice of gaol or a mental home. She chose the mental home. "Well," she said, "there's all the lovely mental cock. I'll be sucking all the nurses off. I'm sure it'll be very gay." Kenneth said this man went into the mental home and was given some kind of treatment "to stop her thinking like a queen". The man apparently was very depressed after this and committed suicide. Kenneth then spoke of all the people he'd known who killed themselves ... he told all the stories in a way which made them funny, but it was clear that he thinks about death constantly.'

By early 1967, Orton was so successful and well-regarded that he had access to the new elite. He was approached by Brian Epstein to write the screenplay of the Beatles' third movie, which he titled 'Up Against It'. His diary entry for 24 January describes meeting Paul McCartney and listening to a pre-release copy of 'Penny Lane' and 'Strawberry Fields Forever'. As the public avatar of the new, aggressive homosexuality and, in private, an enthusiastic sex hunter - one of his most memorable diary entries concerned an orgy in a public toilet in Holloway Road in north London, just down the road from Meek's studio - Orton totally rejected Williams's sexual guilt as the holdover from a bygone era.

But even he could not escape its shadow, embodied by his older partner, Kenneth Halliwell. As the playwright's star rose, the balance of their 15-year relationship tipped irreversibly. The more that Orton flaunted his promiscuity and revelled in his success, the more depressed and inhibited Halliwell became. On 9 August 1967, he murdered Orton with nine frenzied hammer blows to the head, and then swallowed 22 Nembutals. Their bodies were found side-by-side in their shared bedsit.

Eighteen days later, the body of Brian Epstein was found in the locked bedroom of his Belgravia house. The cause of death was, according to the coroner's report, 'poisoning' by Cabrital - a kind of sleeping pill. Epstein's mental state had deteriorated since August 1966, after the Beatles' stopped touring: he hadn't been able to attend their last ever show at San Francisco's Candlestick Park because his then current boyfriend, a hustler called Diz Gillespie, had robbed him of money and valuable documents. According to his attorney and close friend Nat Weiss, that accounted for 'his first major depression: that was the beginning of his loss of self-confidence.'

The deaths of Meek, Orton and Epstein occurred just at the point when the freedoms of the Sixties were institutionally recognised, in Britain at least. As well as the relaxation of the laws on abortion and divorce, the famous 1885 statute that had done for Oscar Wilde and several successive generations of gay men was finally overhauled. The Sexual Offences Act, which became law right at the end of July 1967, substantially decriminalised homosexuality: allowing for the existence of gay social and sexual relationships, it removed the threat of blackmail and enabled the first, very basic steps to be taken towards the ultimate goal of total parity.

'Hey, you've got to hide your love away,' John Lennon had sung in one of the Beatles' most poignant songs, and, for almost every adult gay man born before the mid-1940s, the strain of having to do so was psychologically disastrous. In far too many cases, the result was alcoholism, drug addiction, compulsive cruising, crippling guilt, an inability to form lasting emotional relationships - a monstrous waste of lives.

Reactions to the new law within the gay underworld were not always positive: a renewed bout of 'queer-spotting' in the media unleashed all the old venom about bestial 'buggers'. The historian Jeffrey Weeks remembered meeting men who were 'actively hostile, nervous that the new legality would ruin their cosily secret double lives'. In the same way that the gay underworld had existed despite, if not in defiance of, the law, then the long fought-for turnaround towards partial acceptance would not easily erase the decades of vitriol and prejudice. 'We'll be free,' Kenneth Halliwell had exclaimed to Joe Orton in late July, but it wasn't that simple.

Nearly four decades on, 'Do You Come Here Often?' remains sad, eerie, funny, and true: you can still hear its vivid vituperation in the gay hardcore dance records of the 21st century. By the same token, it is time-locked, a bulletin from a pivotal point in homosexual history: that moment when an oppressed minority began to claim its rightful place in society. However, that struggle was not without its sacrifices. Like Orton and Epstein, Meek would not live to see the sun, and his August 1966 single remains testament to the lethal power of the homophobia that, once rampant in Western society, is still virulent. Guilty pleasures can kill.

· 'Do You Come Here Often?' is available on Queer Noises, an anthology of gay records from 1960-78 curated by Jon Savage, out now on Trikont. A great collection of Meek's recordings, including most of the other records referred to here, is available on The Alchemist of Pop: Home Made Hits and Rarities 1959-1966 (Sanctuary UK 2xCD). An expanded version of this article originally appeared in Black Clock (California Institute of the Arts) Issue 4: Guilty Pleasures. Thanks to Steve Erickson

Hey Joe

The sixties' space cadet

Since his death, Joe Meek's reputation as a pioneer of space-age pop and an eccentric English Phil Spector has grown apace. But in the early Sixties the record industry hardly knew what to make of the man who made a series of hits from his home studio at 304 Holloway Road in north London.

Born in 1929 in the Forest of Dean, he developed an early obsession with gadgets which he nurtured while working for the Midlands Electricity Board and which found full rein when he started to make records in 1956. The best-known of these - John Leyton's 'Johnny Remember Me', the Tornados' 'Telstar' - sounded like nothing else and, far ahead of George Martin, Meek used the studio as an instrument, taking mixing desks apart, playing tapes backwards and adding washes of sci-fi inspired effects. The fact that in his studio people played guitar in the bathroom while others sang on the stairs only adds to the fun.

Scorned by the mainstream, Meek launched his own label, so becoming an indie pioneer in yet another field. Members of Meek's house bands became huge stars a decade later - Ritchie Blackmore, who played the guitar solo on Heinz's 'Just Like Eddie', went on to form Deep Purple, along with the Syndicats' Roger Glover, whose guitarist, Steve Howe, joined Yes.