#although it would be so much more incestuous probably

[darlingpwease]

I wonder if Can you write Yandere Omega Seth (from Ennead) if you okay with it

I'll find you

hide as much as you can // I'll find you

♡ fictional mythology, unhealthy behaviour, lovehate dynamic (love -> lovehate), animalistic behaviour, pet names, power exchange, mention of bloodletting (seth), hints of incestuous relationships?; beta!reader -> alpha!reader, heqet/khnum!reader implied

♡ rough treatment, mild blood kink, mild scent kink, heavy petting, dubious consent -> consensual, unprotected sex / breeding, bondage by sand, power imbalance -> power exchange; word 'womb' used once for Seth

𓂀 Contacting this omega is not the best solution — you realized when you first met him, while coming out of the Nile, the keeper of the floods of which you were.

Of course, it's not that you were obliged to communicate with any of them or even be interested in your distant relatives, who were no more than the seventh water on the jelly, but you needed to come out of the depths of the Nile at least from time to time — and when you finally come out, for the first time you meet an unusually red shade, burning like a torch against the background of burning golden sand and the sky blue as the waters of the Nile.

He was like a creature that was born from the spilled blood of all the fallen warriors who did not find their way home, but took refuge in your waters, sprinkling your waters over and over again until the river turns red like the sunset.

His name was 'SETH', he was the god of war and the desert, his parents were Geb and Nut — and when your gaze first crossed, it was as if you were hit on the head with something; almost a low cry of 'YOU WERE NOTICED' so loud that if you were human, you would turn away and run away, — under the sand, under the ground, under the water, no matter where, — but you are not a human and, even if you were weaker than him, you would not run away.

After all, who is the 'God of War and the Desert' against the Deity who keeps the Nile?

“Don't you dare look at me like that anymore.”

wolf cub.

You can guess that his behavior is probably an attempt to attract, as a fertile young omega provokes a fertile young alpha to get angry and chase after him, showing everything they can, just to prove that they are good enough to fill the womb. You know all this. After all, you were the one who created the figures of people who were illuminated by Ra, and you were more than able to watch these playtimes when the lovers went too far in their games and fell together into the coastal waters after a long chase.

And you more than know the brilliance of those eyes — and react faster than realize, like water, which acts intuitively, not relying on reason, to survive. They say that betas have a stronger intuition with understanding of the world — it's not for nothing that you are one of those gods who prefer maximum detachment, 'spirituality', achieved through refusing to accept the role of omega or alpha.

And you let your instincts dictate.

Before his cheeky mouth has time to say anything, you just have to make a wave so that the waters of the Nile aim at him like a beast that has found prey — and break against a strong, slender figure, without causing severe pain, but forcing him to take steps back, no longer bursting into your space.

SETH'S hair, dripping and darkened from the water, sticks to body — but before he has time to resist you in any way, calling to himself the sands of the desert, submissive to him like a tamed pet, you dissolve into the water, returning to your native current...

“I'll find you!”

... The waters of the Nile easily take you into themselves as a natural part, hiding you from the outside world, dissolving like everything that falls into the water abyss and stays here; it's not for nothing that people say that it was water that gave birth to life, and that water is necessary for life.

And although you are not a water Deity, you are also worth something.

𓂀 You know that this is not Ra — although the method of summoning is the same, Ra would rather strangle herself than summon you, especially so soon after the last arrival. Even if you had a... good relationship, — you both contributed to the appearance of 'humans' — it was obvious that you were still different.

Your clay figurines needed a bright fire to come to life, just as she craved worship and followers — it was an interchange where mortals became what brought you closer and pushed you away from each other.

However, SETH was looking for you for other reasons, quite different from 'worshippers'.

Although you are used to being summoned in other ways, such as sacrifices and festivals, you must admit that you clearly underestimated the son of Nut and Geb, who were no better than any of them — but at least they were smart enough not to try to find out from Ra a way to summon you without having to wait at Nila.

Because more than herself and power, Ra loved only to have fun — and sometimes you wondered if she was looking for power just to have fun.

“... Heh.”

When he looks down at you, like a child who has found a gift hidden from him, his scarlet lips stretch in a cheeky smile.

If most gods and goddesses somehow have more alpha and omega traits, then SETH looks like there are too many of these traits in him, like an omega-like alpha or alpha-like omega than beta.

“It turns out that this is the only way you can be summoned? I thought to the last that she was lying...”

The scarlet spot spreads across the water surface of the unusually calm Nile, dissolving in the streams of water that carry the particles with them, absorbing a new part of itself into its course. If people knew how much Nile water contains particles of their children, parents, friends, spouses, enemies, detractors, traitors — would they drink it?

If they knew that the same water absorbs the blood of the gods they worship, what would they look like, scooping up water like the purest gold — the same as he controls, the God of the Desert, smelling of sand dust, dry grass and heat?

“I don't care. You're here, so it was worth it.”

You don't think that the blood of God should be used for such things, like simply calling you from the river bottom, but don't say anything, giving someone to continue — and SETH continues without hearing an answer.

And although he, in fact, created a trap for you, filling the entire stone floor with his sand to make sure that you don't run away anywhere, you feel more like in the paws of a small puppy than in the cave of a mature wolf.

Wasn't it really an exaggeration to be afraid of him?

... Apparently, you have been under water for so long, absorbing the blood of warriors and animals, that you have become too sensitive to any danger...

“I promised you I'd find you.”

𓂀 SETH smells of freedom — not the freedom that has no limits or restrictions, only dead bodies that float along the Nile can have such freedom, but the freedom that is like the hot breath of the desert during the day and the icy whisper of the desert at night; it smells of heat, dry grass, the blood of soldiers and treasures captured with the help of weapons.

You pretend that you don't notice when treasures fall to the bottom of the Nile, and that, moreover, don't understand who gives you them; but it's hard for you to deny that you don't like the look of them. After all, the Nile is not just a 'river' or 'your home', but your temple and refuge, and the sight of expensive and precious things sheltering the once bare, dreary bottom undoubtedly improves the view and your mood; especially when the current of the river carries you further, and gold, like a lighthouse, shines; sprinkling the dark bottom is like the moon shining on the darkest desert night.

SETH is hot and fervent, like burning blood flowing out of him until you hand an object that can immediately contact you, instead of flooding waters, as if out of spite spending more than really needed, as if the more blood, the faster you will rise to the surface.

(in a sense, it is, but for other reasons...)

You can understand that this relationship is frowned upon, at least by his brother, but there's not much you can do — the waters of the Nile are all-encompassing and almost omnipresent, and the way SETH regularly calls you is almost charming if it wasn't so intense, as if every time he struggles with himself in the desire to devour you or to drag away, but at the same time I have to give up this need, which is close to the human need to drink water. You don't need to ask him about it to know — the way he looks at you, as if wanting to sink his teeth into your skin and take you to his cave, is more than eloquent, and even the way his smell intensifies, silently shouting that he is a strong, healthy and fertile omega, in itself is an obvious sign.

And the fact that you are just as quiet and calm, like serene dark waters, untouched by gusts of sandy wind, only further inflames his burning passion and desire, which he himself cannot describe in any way except as 'mine'.

Mine.

Mine mine mine — you give life, carry life, no matter in a running stream or standing water, watching as the surface is filled with bodies and blood, dirt and tears, bodies entwined in passion and love embraces. It doesn't matter — everything will be dissolved in your current and carried away until it becomes no more than another drop in billions of the same, carrying information that only you know.

SETH, on the other hand, carries with him the smell of something wild, giving life, — but also ruthlessly taking it for himself, strewing everything with the red-hot gold of the desert, which becomes more and more every time you rise, noticing how the waters that used to caress the fertile lands now nourish the sand.

And you know what will happen next — SETH has never been a secretive type, even if his method of hunting was closer to big cats hiding until they get close enough to bite into the throat and gnaw, taking them to their hideout. SETH is the same cat — big, red and strong, smelling of mature omega when he notices that you are more responsive to this fragrance.

SETH is not at all deeply interested in the topic of "let's mate" — are you sure that he is attracted not at all to your physical data or smell, but to how comfortable and safe he is next to you, letting him finally relax, looking for comfort in your waters, and that if he decided that you would be his, then you will be his.

He will always find you.

𓂀 SETH is persistent, stubborn and aggressive. Even if his emotions are a sphere that is easy to push and cause pain, you understand perfectly well that he is the god who will break rather than bend.

But when he asks you what happens to the bodies of those soldiers that he led to war, when they find themselves in the Nile, like bags full of blood, breathing and thinking recently, at first you don't know what to answer — not because you can't share his silent pain, looking like a scorpion that suddenly bared you have a soft vulnerable tummy, but because you have nothing to answer.

What happens to the bodies? The Nile absorbs them — everything that was dumped into the waters finds itself in the stomachs of animals or in water particles, carrying with it such an amount of memory that nothing else can contain.

“... If I die one day, will you promise that my memory will be preserved in your waters?”

You no longer know if you are talking about the waters of the Nile or something else — but you know that you will probably never find SETH like this again.

Unusually fragile, as if really an ordinary omega who just wants to have a family, a common nest and puppies. To have you as an alpha, to be in the same nest with you and to have children together.

What can you say other than consent? No matter what happens, he will always remain in your memory — as a special memory that will never be erased.

“... Thank you. I'll never forget you either. And I won't let go.”

His eyes are burning just like the sunset on the background.

“We'll be together. Always. Because I chose you and I won't let you go.”

𓂀 His power becomes stronger, and when you meet him again, you have nothing to oppose when the sand from the land and the bottom rises to grab you.

Undoubtedly, it wasn't something that you 'didn't expect' — SETH was never the type who tried to hide what intentions he had if he saw that it would affect your attitude, and even if he found comfort in your touches and hugs, covering him like a blanket from the whole world, he never had this safe habit of 'being content with little'. His intentions were obvious from the first meeting and did not change at all — you were perfect, from head to toe, the only one with whom he would like to spend one heat and then make you spend thousands more, finally feeling complete, finished.

He, the god of the Desert and War, with you, Deity of the Nile flood — is not the best couple that can be?

'No'?

... Ha, does someone think that things like "imperfect couple" or "more worthy" or "more accessible" or "morally wrong" or something else will stop him?

Does he need permission? If he wants it — he will get it. And nothing can stop him.

Even if you are a beta, you smell fertile, pleasant, sweet — you smell of life, sex, from which children are born, absorbing the spilled blood and creating from it what brings birth and fertility, and SETH has always been more than gambling and ready to put everything on the line.

And you knew it.

Even if you are safe in the water, once you get out, nothing can save you — especially when you step on the sand, which immediately becomes your cage, locking you in. The waters immediately splash out of the Nile, crushing on him, but now SETH moves only a couple of steps, becoming much more powerful — and when palms grab by the wrists while teeth close on neck, everything inside you starts screaming again that you need to run right now.

Now the sand turns out to be decorated with spots of the deity's blood.

His mark pulsates on never-marked neck — and although it is not the same among deities as among people, you clearly see that for him it was not at all 'just a bite' or a 'mating mark', but a sign of possession, while the pupils in the blood-red iris, the shade of red-hot metal, expand, and a nimble pink tongue licks the blood from scarlet lips.

Red.

RED RED RED.

Nails are no worse than the claws of a wolf, and even fangs look like they can easily tear apart a dozen other people who decide to intervene.

The sand squeezes your feet so tightly that you can't even twitch.

This is all completely wrong.

You cowardly escape into the waters — betas are not capable of mating, are not created for this, closer to 'asexual beings' who do not have a biological task in the form of giving birth, much closer to the primordial asexual matter than to the omegas and alphas giving birth, but for some reason a mark with an imprint burns on his neck which didn't exist before.

Was it you? Or was it the part of you that you denied? You didn't know. It is easier to plunge into the native waters than to try to figure out why for the first time its fragrance was so dizzying, or why you went for something like this. You're not like that at all — not like that at all. It's not normal.

But you'll have to get out soon anyway.

You don't want your omega to get hurt while calling you, right, alpha?

Interlude

“I'm surprised you decided to step in anyway, dear.”

When the sand almost gently wraps around your hands, you realize that the biggest stupidity you can do is to try to escape.

Even if there is water in things like vases in the room, this is too little to create the necessary amount — and even to make sand soft and heavy, such a meager amount is not enough, except to pour it on him and break a vase on this face.

“Wasn't it you who liked to be constantly huddled in your little shell? Hiding there from any danger and thinking that it will help you?”

His hands are not the same as before — slightly rough, wide palms that easily slide over your cool skin, leaving warm traces, slightly scratching with sharp nails, as if hinting that you should not do rash things; if he did not smell like a blooming omega, you would think that he was alpha or alpha-like beta.

“But it turns out that if it's not me, but someone else, then you're ready to help them! No matter how much blood I shed, you didn't come out — but as soon as it was Isis, you immediately got out to help.”

His mark on your neck has not been pulsating for a long time, but when his fingers touch your neck, he freezes for a moment, assessing the scar left, which is almost impossible to notice — and from something, your body again feels this soreness, fettering for a moment from the realization of what happened before the brain began to work feverishly.

Then.

Now you are experiencing phantom pain until you realize that it is not 'phantom' — SETH shamelessly licks your blood from his fingers when he realizes that he scratched the old mark.

“This is wrong.”

Even when blood drips down from the shoulder, you know that's not what you need to worry about — his body is hot as the desert during the day, especially when his hips easily sit on top of yours, taking care that the sand does not let go of your hands.

“I promised you I'd always be there for you; although it was you who avoided me all these years, not appearing even when the corpses filled the entire Nile, while the other gods were terrified of what was happening — but I understand. A lot to do, yes? You've always been busy and strict, ever since our first meeting, when you doused me like some kind of animal.”

The thick scent of omega is so strong that you are not sure if it smells from him or if it is something else — the same thing that made you bite his neck then; your bite is also still burning on his skin, although it looks much more noticeable on him, although you are sure that you bit weaker than him.

The sweet bloody fragrance makes you dizzy.

“And when I saw you, I realized that you didn't live well either; after all, who but me could take care of a hermit like you?”

His hands, in spite of everything, are omeganine soft and pleasant, even if he uses them to look even more wrongly charming, as if he did not sneak into your bedroom — in which you were definitely expecting this meeting — to "talk heart to heart" while his hot wet slippery thighs touch your hips,

obviously.

“I was doing the wrong thing. I gave you the 'right to choose', thinking that this is what lovers should do — but, you know, people around me explained to me what I did wrong. By own example. And I'm ready to show you what I should have done back then, instead of this idiotic thought that you'd think it over and make a nest with me...”

He purrs — deep in his throat, like a big cat, when a strong flexible hand gently rests on your chest while the second one uses the surface behind as a support, rubs against your thighs, leaving sticky wet traces of juice on your bare skin, from touching which your skin burns, and you don't look at him, making sure not to do anything you might regret,

“Look at your omega.”

but it's hard to do when his hand moves from your chest to your throat, not squeezing, but feeling quite threatening, even if you are sure that it will not cause any harm.

“Don't you dare take your eyes off me or I'll scratch them out. You can only look at me and see only me. No one else and nothing else.”

The way he hovers feels almost the same as when he was able to summon you for the first time — his hair hangs down freely, like the flames of candles burning around you, and the same abnormally bright glow burns in his eyes, like the eyes of a cat. Or a wolf.

An abandoned, starved wolf.

“... Like I said, no one cares about you but me — you can fight this idea all you want, but we both know it's true.”

It's wet, wet, hot, sticky, tight between SETH'S thighs — you didn't consider yourself a 'virgin', but when the smell gets stronger and sharper, even you need time to get rid of the veil of excitement that covers eyes in the basest way, looking at his strong thighs while red hair falls over his shoulders, revealing a view of the most handsome omega in your life.

“Therefore...”

His lips are scarlet, thin, beautiful, and when he bends over you, you can't feel the inarticulate delight and the misunderstanding that follows it, associated with the simultaneous desire to pull away from repeated unusual stimulation and the desire to take this stimulation, grab by the hair and breed until it becomes clear that you will need a joint nest, in which he will keep the puppies while you fill him again and again.

Over and over, until his belly is rounded.

This is wrong.

His legs are slender and strong, ideal so that you don't have to do anything while SETH is able to at least move his knees — but you are sure that if you just wrap your hands around his hips and squeeze, you will get much more pleasure and delight, hammering into him with the basest this is wrong in a way.

It's the smell of omega. Definitely the smell of omega.

You yourself can't feel like this for him — for omega, who first marked you, then pursued you for many years and now, finally getting a chance, immediately pounced like an overexcited wolf, to such an extent that you can see the juice flowing down his thighs, although you are sure that even he does not realize it himself, considering it nothing more than a 'punishment'.

“... let me take care of–”

Of course you will.

Everything happens in the blink of an eye — the water, the sand, astonished expression on his face and how it takes you no more than a couple of minutes to find yourself in a deliciously tight heat, from which his claws immediately scratch your hands holding him on his back until it bleed, but nothing in him tries to escape, even if SETH growls mixed with purring, choking on words as you snuggle tighter, allowing something more animal, dirty to take control.

You smell of life, passion, sex — 'the very sex from which children are born', the very life that gave rise to mortals, and you know that you have something to fill this womb with.

When his cheeks are covered with a bright blush, reminiscent of the shade of his eyes and hair; you can't help but reach out to burrow into his neck, not caring about the sand that is wrapped around your ankle — and not caring about the aggressive imperiousness with which SETH squeezes you while sharp fangs bite your lips almost to the point of blood, greedily kissing, almost devouring.

If you leave me again, I'll find you and kill you.

[urmomsspeciallady]

thank my most recent hyperfixation and my need for more fics of him because i hnnnngggg

Random Brett Hand S/O Headcanons

Brett’s the kinda guy to take you on either really classic dates (straight from the movies. ex: a candlelit dinner) or a “weird” date (something you wouldn’t necessarily expect from a man. ex: going shopping at the malls)

He makes a playlist about you as soon as he catches feelings. (he is so me)

He gives the best hugs. Brett just gives the most comfy and secure hugs.

He LOVES holding hands. He’ll do it subconsciously all the time, but he tries to remember to ask first (if it bothers you). He definitely does the thumb thing.

His love language? This is a tough one because I feel like all of them would fit him, but I think it’d be words of affirmations. Although, he does enjoy going out to find you the best gift, or even just making something for you in his free time.

Are you artsy? Great! You two spend some time together just working on your own projects. Him on his puppets or crafts, you on whatever it may be that day. ADHD term is body-doubling, I don’t know if it applies but I feel like it does. Either way, you two are spending quality time together. (i’ve got adhd hah)

You’re not artsy? That’s okay! Brett may try and convince you to make a craft with him, maybe even Legos, but if all this fails, he doesn’t mind. This just means more crafting for him.

Speaking off the last one, you two definitely build Lego sets together.

He’s git the best manners in terms of romantic relationships. He’s holding the door for you, giving you his jacket, buys the meals, etc.

He likes to come up behind you and hug you. Sometimes for no particular reason, he just likes holding you and having you close to him. He knows he’s got you, and you know he’s got you. Just a reminder to you both that he’s/you’re right there.

He tries to impress you a lot.

There are times when he just sits and holds you face in the palms of his hands and just.. Admire you. Smiling. Stroking your cheek

He loves it when you play with his hair! Stroking it, combing your fingers through it, ruffling it, putting braid in it only to brush it out again. He’ll go out of his way to lay his head on your lap or sit closer to you than normal.

NSFW UNDER THIS LINE!!!

Brett is one hundo percent a switch.

If you’re a switch too, you’ll probably swap roles midway through sex. Not out of no where, just kind of like banter. Probably a “taking turns” guy in which you’ll take turns topping or bottoming.

HE KNOWS HOW TO DO THE KNEE THING!! At first, he was already amazing at it but had no clue. He overheard Gigi talking about it and ended up looking it up. Now that he knows he’s doing it, he’s a GOD.

As much as I don’t want to say it.. He has a mommy kink. It’s not an intense mommy kink, just the praise and nicknames. Nothing that would seem.. Incestuous D: Ick.

Canonically, he’s into what you’re into.

PRAISE!! This will bring him to his knees so fast

He also likes teasing. But this isn’t just in sex. He likes playfully teasing you and you tease him back. It’s kinda y’all’s thang.

I feel like he loves soft sex. Like the sweet mushy lovey dovey kind. Where you can just look into eachothers’ eyes. Where you hold hands the whole time. Or where he can just hold you, you can hold him and just be together.

Mans is above average, but not massive.

He had a sexy playlist. You already know it.

He likes casual sex but he cherishes the special nights. One of his favorite’s is when he’s able to clean up the bedroom, buy roses, light candles, all the romantics. But you know, getting head in the broom closet isn’t so bad either.

Even thought Brett is… Brett, you guys have a safe word. You insisted (not cus ur trying to help him learn to speak up for himself whattt nooo…)

Biting, scratching, and hickies. He likes those as well!

tags:

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[ryuichirou]

Replies

A couple of replies.

Anonymous asked:

"She never touches herself down there for any reason other than hygiene, although she probably should."

I agree, Ryuichi, she definitely should. Don't tell a certain Eel that she's never touched herself down there 👀 It won't end good.

(this is related to this hc post from yesterday)

Wink wink, Anon. A certain eel would absolutely be a horrible influence on her! We can’t let that happen! (we absolutely can and we are going to)

Anonymous asked:

do you any headcanons about which twst characters would be brocons/siscons? i mean other then Idia as he’s nearly canonically one lol

This is such a good question, Anon; one of the most important ones I would say lol

Yeah, the fact that Idia was straight-up called a brocon in canon at least once is very telling; even if it doesn’t imply anything incestuous, it’s still funny how people’s first reaction to his relationship with Ortho is “wow that’s… hm”.

I don’t think there is anyone who would be brocon/siscon to the same level as Idia, but let’s get through the list of characters who have siblings very quickly! I hope I don’t forget anyone…

The tweels’ relationship are interesting, but don’t necessarily feel brocon-like; Ace isn’t a brocon, I feel like his relationship with his brother are pretty typical, same goes for Jamil and Najma. Trey and Jack both are just caring older brothers who are a bit parental towards their younger siblings, so it’s also a little different. Rook is a middle child of a big family and never really talks about his relationship with his siblings, so I guess this is also a “no”; Sebek also isn’t overly attached to his siblings…

While Cater absolutely isn’t a siscon, his sisters could be brocons! Yes, they’re pretty mean towards him, but it doesn’t mean that they there isn’t some unhealthy attachments going on lol Maybe even in an incestuous way, who knows? If Cater had a brother though, he himself would be a brocon.

Kalim also isn’t a brocon/siscon, but one of his 30+ siblings could easily be obsessed with him, I can picture that surprisingly easily…

Now, Leona. Leona is a brocon, whether he likes it or not lol He is just in very deep tsundere denial. I choose to think that his own grievances regarding how Falena treats him are a big reason for his overall bitterness/bitchiness.

Could Rollo be considered a brocon? I would love it. I think it’s fair to call him one lol

I also think that if Riddle had an older sibling, he would be a huge brocon/siscon. He just has this vibe… maybe it’s just my wishful thinking.

Anonymous asked:

TWST size anon here!  How long have the others been playing?  I've been playing since almost the Eng server's start and have done almost everything and have a lot of cards.  So the game's a tiny bit more than 13 GB for me.  And I know some people have had to stop playing cause the game got too big for their old phones.  Clearing the cache sadly doesn't do much

Just posting it because I don’t really have anything to add.

Anonymous asked:

Do you know the game That’s Not My Neighbour?

Nope, never heard of it! But seen some spicy fanart floating around.

[edmundhoward]

soo ... about that seymour adaptation...

edward seymour

i adore his whole ‘prodigal son’ vibe; norton repeatedly calls him “the star of the seymour family”. scard recounts his position as the second son as: “the eldest surviving son, john, may have lived until he was about 20 but he appears to have been overshadowed from an early age by his brother edward”. because edward does have a good start to his career, in some ways paralleling anne boleyn: he is selected to be a page of honour to the king’s sister, mary, when he was about fourteen years old. he therefore spent time in france, with scard pointing out that edward was a part of “one of the grandest households in europe”, before being the first recorded seymour to study at oxford.

i think his treatment of his first wife and their children is probably less to do with any kind of quasi-incestuous, patrilineal affair between katherine and his father (although, i am not opposed to that being included in an adaptation — with the stipulation that her youth and john’s position of authority over her be sufficiently acknowledged; i really enjoy the dissonance of two teenagers playing at adulthood, playing house while edward’s father accommodated them) and more to do with a ruthless willingness to take advantage of the system for his own benefit. he would similarly meddle “very craftily” (according to cromwell and audley) and “aggressive[ly]” (according to scard) over land ownership. he was ruthlessly opportunistic, “adept at trying to manipulate legal loopholes for his own benefit”; he would later attempt the same with katherine parr (frustrating her so much that she ranted to his brother that she would have bitten him). one contemporary professed “it is hard trusting to his courtesy, for he hath small conscience”.

likewise, he also aggravated the howards, through being of lower birth and newer money. i do not care for whether or not it is factually accurate, i very much intend to have henry howard, who hated edward, punch him in the face. (also iirc, edward later struck gardiner in the face. fabulous.) i would very much want to keep that element as a throughline in an adaptation; this monstrous class system, with it's horrific wealth divides, and the absurdity of old versus new money — especially given edward’s later complicity in the desperately punitive vagrancy act. the aristocracy of england is monstrous, and the howards and seymour exemplify different facets of it’s monstrosity: the ancient, old feudal monopoly of lands and resources (and that sense of innate superiority to others), and the ruthless drive to bleed resources dry in a constant pursuit of more. i have no interest in shying away from that; the sumptuousness of edward's career was paid for with the toil of the commons. somerset house, the grand and beautiful renaissance residence he built, was built at the same time and nor far from the religious houses edward tore down for building materials: st john of jerusalem (smithfield), was “undermined and overthrown with gunpowder” for it’s stone, st paul’s cloister and charnel house was partially demolished for rubble, the bones of those laid to rest there dumped in finsbury. he was granted and spent thousands on syon abbey. plundering of religious buildings and desecration of human remains was inexorably tied to the wealth and prestige of edward seymour’s (and the howards) career; “if the seymours had drunk innocent blood, then the howards had allowed them to do so” (childs). (“and thus behold my kind, how that we differ far; [...] i can devour no yielding prey, you kill where you subdue. my kind is to desire the honour of the field, and you, with blood to slake your thirst of such as to you yield. [...] and if to light on you my hap so good shall be / i shall be glad to feed on that that would have fed on me.”)

i think his marriage to anne stanhope, would be fabulous as a relationship dynamic. it seems like a successful marriage; the pair are active at court and are, certainly, the centre of the seymour faction at court, in the 1530s. it is the pair who facilitate jane seymour’s courtship with henry viii, for example. under edward vi they occupy the awkward position of functional royalty, with no real claim to it (yet, who is to say they are autocratic power-grabbers when assuming they have no legitimate claim to that power and wealth assumes it is possible to ever have a legitimate claim to that level of power and wealth). they had several children and through his disinheriting his children by katherine filliol, he sought to protect his family with anne, with the same ruthlessness we should come to expect from him.

good wolf imagery with anne stanhope's family emblem being a wolf. thumbs up.

his successful career as a military man, despite his inflexible, abrasive attitude makes me think that his otherwise promising career was handicapped by flaws in his personality rather than his skillset. van der delft recorded that edward was “looked down upon by everybody as a dry, sour, opinionated man”. i feel like he fundamentally failed to co-operate at court, amongst those more attuned to courtly love tropes etc., arguably in-keeping with the idea of the seymours being less chivalrous/romantic, and more practically minded, a la edward’s sisters being educated in bastard script.

(also arguably a foil to anne boleyn in that idea of two up-and-coming, humanist leaning, reformist courtiers (with slightly controversial betrothal/marriage histories prior to court) whose talent is undermined by their arguably ‘unpalatable’ personalities and their overreaching ambition... could be fun to play on that as edward undermines anne in 1536, especially when he has to carry her motherless (made motherless by his actions) daughter for his nephew’s baptism, and ultimately they wind up buried together.)

tbh the way i envisage edward is summed up nicely by this quote from tudor times: “it may be that his talents fitted him to be a second-in-command, but that the very attention to detail that had made him a successful commander in the field, made him unsuited to the strategic vision and ability to delegate and consult that mark out the true leader. consequently, he became defensive, unwilling to take advice, and quick to take offence”.

primary sources: margaret scard, tudor king in all but name: the life of edward seymour; stephen alford, kingship and politics in the reign of edward vi; diarmaid macculloch, tudor church militant: edward vi and the protestant reformation

henry seymour

kind of obsessed with second sons, the embodiment of ‘the spare’ (henry was born around the same time as henry viii ascended to the throne, so he’s named after another spare).

he entered royal service in 1526, so a few years ahead of jane seymour probably going to court — which is also interesting considering they both joined catherine of aragon's household. i actually would like their relationship explored more — jane’s will bequeathed him “several valuable chains”, and he named his daughter after her.

i actually have zero interest in the idea that henry was the ‘good’ brother… he was clearly very much part of the seymour ‘faction’ of the 1530s — he was willing to pick at the carcass of anne boleyn’s household, as he took mark smeaton’s position after anne boleyn’s fall. likewise, jane rewarded him with several offices and entrusted him with administering her estates as queen. so, whilst he may not have been as ambitious as his brothers, he was clearly an active part of the seymour family’s ambitions, and was adaptive and willing to reap his spoils at court.

in spite of norton describing him as “content to remain in the country”, a man who “never sought the glittering careers of his siblings”, he was at court for a significant time, occupying significant positions. he ultimately did not seek, or at least did not achieve (as we don’t know enough about him to conclude he did not want them) the kind of promotions his brothers achieved, but i don’t honestly think his career was distinctly less ‘glittering’ than thomas’ or his father’s…

and his court career otherwise argues for him to be of more significance than he gets recognised for. the idea that henry “remained in the shadows” (scard) is rather difficult to reconcile with someone who held onto such a ridiculously expensive and coveted position such as queen’s carver under multiple queens. given the prominence of strict hierarchy in carving and serving food, henry would surely have been well-versed in the court dynamics, the politics of meat (to steal the phrase).

his responsibilities and seeming skill as carver also lend itself to imagery of hunting and butchery that goes so well with wolf hall and savernake forest. henry would have been skilled at carving and dismembering animal carcasses for the queen — which would be potent imagery to play with considering the seymour rise (like a phoenix) out of the ashes of anne boleyn, an old, dead bird (falcon); more bluntly with the imagery of carving and meat and picking at the remains of anne boleyn's carcass....

(fabulous wolf imagery continues with him marrying barbara wolfe.)

i think it’s interesting that of all john’s sons, henry’s seems to follow his most closely. he has a decent career at court, and clearly enjoys favour (being made knight of the bath & receiving royal grants of land under edward vi) with some military positions, but never seems to establish himself as a major personality. he ultimately establishes himself more locally, elected the mp for hampshire, and serving as high sheriff of hampshire between 1568-69.

as for family motivations, he may well have been close to his family as he was the sole executor of his mother's will. but when edward seymour asked him to send troops for support, henry supposedly ignored him and did not reply. he also did well under john dudley's administration, showing the same ability to reap the spoils of someone's fall as he did during anne's fall, only this time it was his own brothers.

it must also have been a challenging time for him in the 1560s-1570s; he was with his mother when she died, and had (at this point) lost his father, jane, thomas, edward, and three other siblings. it seems like he had lost a few children of his own at this point, too. his niece, mary seymour, quietly disappears from the record, and probably dies young, removed from her seymour family. he is presumed to be the last seymour child of this generation to die.

therefore, henry seymour (alongside sisters dorothy and elizabeth) becomes witness to the decline of the seymour family that he knew — the family would remain prominent (edward’s children, for example, retained careers and significance at court) — but in many respects the seymour ‘faction’ was obsolete at this point, and because he was at court, i feel like his perspective of this decline is the most significant: he would have seen the highest highs, in ways his sisters would not have.

primary sources: david loades, the seymours of wolf hall; elizabeth norton, jane seymour: henry viii’s true love

thomas seymour

🐀

firstly, i think it’s profoundly significant that thomas seymour would have been at wolf hall when katherine filliol came into his father’s house. he and katherine were around the same age. he would have been about eleven when katherine gave birth to her baby, john, in 1518. i think it’s really worth remembering that thomas seymour may well have witnessed his father groom his teenage ward. the set up for thomas’ relationship with lady elizabeth is there from the beginning.

his first position, under francis bryan, can be dated to the mid 1520s — so there seems to have been a mass exodus of seymour children from the family home to court (as henry and jane also come to court around this time), and in more than one case, probably in connection to francis bryan. which i think makes for fun potential, considering the dormer’s allegedly not wanting to associate with the seymour's on account of scandal, which has been attributed to the vicar of hell’s reputation.

in an adaptation, he’s a fabulous foil to edward: he seems to have been considerably less able, his career far more being credited to the successes of his immediate relatives, his blood carrying him further than any innate talent. throckmorton’s decription of him — “hardy, wise and liberal […] fierce in courage, courtly in fashion, in personage stately, in voice magnificent, but somewhat empty of matter” — creates this fun parallel of thomas having the charisma that edward lacked, but none of his ability; as elizabeth described him, thomas was “a man of much wit, but very little judgement”, or, according to nicholas throckmorton, “somewhat empty of matter”. norton likewise describes him as: “he was not a man of half measures. he entered into everything with gusto and determination, but not always skill or foresight.”

and there is something poignantly frustrating about how impotent and insignificant thomas seymour is, as the youngest seymour son (even if henry arguably had a less distinctive career, it seems considerably more stable, and he was with their mother when she died). his personality was praised, he seems to be popular with members of court, but he seems to fail to achieve much off of that in his own right. his first known role was in the service of his kinsman, described as “servant to sir francis bryan”, so a minor role at court and likely a family affair. he was made a gentleman of the privy chamber in october 1536, almost certainly on account of his sister's marriage to the king, and had the honour of being one of the gentlement who held the canopy over baby prince edward’s canopy at his christening in 1537, and knighted at the same ceremony that saw edward made earl of hertford. numerous grants of lands and titles probably can be attributed to his (and his family’s) friendship with thomas cromwell — “these two are more likely to have come via cromwell's mediation rather than that of the queen”. whilst edward was inducted into the order of the garter in 1541, thomas took longer to get there, despite being nominated every year from 1543 to the year of his eventual induction: 1547.

so there is this strong set up for a resentment and jealousy, not specific to edward, but to this general sense of resistance to his own juvenile status. which is, to some extent, an inevitability within a system that relies of primogeniture: he is the third surviving son, after all. he has no claim to a solid inheritance. but it also smacks of entitlement when you remember how privileged he was, and how many rewards he enjoyed on behalf of his family. we can’t identify these thoughts or feelings in the historical man, and assuming them of him would be an anachronism, but i think it would be interesting to explore in an adaptation.

still, i think he could be interesting as a man desperate to assert himself: loades speculates that presumably thomas was a gentleman volunteer on the king’s ships for some considerable time before his being made captain of the sweepstake in 1537, as such a position would demand experience of which no evidence survives. i do enjoy the idea of this, and would like to carry it through into an adaptation - of thomas throwing himself at opportunities to try and make his mark. clearly, he otherwise must have proved himself, since he did receive rewards in 1532 - his first grant, forester of enfield chase, which he likely did not obtain through his brother or bryan, and certainly not his sister jane. so, it would not be unreasonable that thomas was capable of progressing his career on his own merit. but, i think there’s something significant in the fact that most of his ‘achievements’ were granted by virtue of his blood rather than any personal achievement, both as an indication of how parasitic the court world of tudor nobility was, but also as characterisation of a man who had a lifelong relationship with doing the utmost to climb to the top of said parasitic ladder. thomas was a monster a monstrous system created.

so he's tossed about in marriage negotiations with mary howard, up until around 1540, which he seems enthusiastic about (irrespective of the fact that mary very much is not), and these two families that do not like each other are forcibly trying to force themselves to be tied to each other, all in the name of the prestige of being a little closer to the royal circle.

on that note, it would be interesting to adapt his time as ambassador to the king of hungary in 1542, where he travels to nuremberg with charles howard, both brothers to late queens of england (katherine howard, and jane seymour), especially after thomas seymour was the one to confiscate the queen’s jewels from katherine. fun foreshadowing for the later drama between his wife (katherine parr) and anne stanhope, as well as a play on the timeline of his relationship with katherine parr, as their courtship is interrupted by henry viii’s marrying katherine, in an ironic repetition of recent history as the same seems to have taken place between katherine howard and thomas culpeper.

by 1543, he has met katherine parr, and she later claims that she would have married thomas after latimer died, but it's not known what thomas felt about her. perhaps controversially? i do think he had feelings for her: she was an attractive, resolved and intelligent woman. norton points out that they shared a common interest in religious reform, and arguably one can see a compatibility between them, considering parr’s noted love of finery. and moreso in an adaptation, if we characterise thomas as ambitious and trying to accumulate more wealth, power and prestige for himself, i don’t think parr was enough of a notably, wealthy widow to be that attractive to him without some kind of personal incentive. and i am not interested in characterising thomas (or any of these people) as fundamentally incapable of love.

and i do think thomas, with that constant, entitled sense of juvenile inadequacy, raging against the patriarchal, primogeniture system, while still determined to co-operate within it, and seemingly only able to cope with it if he is able to be at the top of the pecking order he feels he is oppressed by... being in a competition over a woman with henry viii, himself an aberration against the ideal of masculinity (old, obese, his virility thoroughly undermined in both his ability to father sons and his being cuckolded). well, i adore exploring toxic masculinity with sensitivity, but also, it’s fascinating and very funny. it completely exposes the ridiculousness of these systems and structures.

it’s the same with his relationship with edward vi: whilst i don't doubt he may well have felt genuine affection for his nephew (and i did like how the brothers saw edward, in part, as an extension of their dead sister in becoming elizabeth — and i am shamelessly stealing that idea), edward vi is also the embodiment of peak masculinity whilst inherently an inversion of it by virtue of his age.

primary sources: david loades, the seymours of wolf hall; elizabeth norton, catherine parr; elizabeth norton, the temptation of princess elizabeth; stephen alford, kingship and politics in the reign of edward vi

[romanarose]

IYWBW 👀 talk bitch (affectionate)

If You Wanna Be Wild, Santiago Garcia x latina!Reader x Javier Pena

Send me an ask

GOD I LOVE THIS SERIES!!!!

Below the cut is talks of sex, repressed bisexuality, religious trauma (catholic guilt) and emotional incest.

Santiago Garcia. Probably my favorite character in the oscar-verse. Wrote two series with him, Leather and Lace and then Awakening and, i adore him. So much

But young Santi? vunerable santi??? mommy issues Santi??? god. He's soooooo special to me.

The thing I wish i could emphacize better is the contrast between his abilities and his trauma.

I am not good at writting action... so i dont. But I need everyone to understand, Santi is incredibly capable as a soldier and as a DEA agent. He does not need protection, he does not hide behind Javi nor does Javi particularly stress about Santi in the field. He worries durig gunshots or when he hasn't heard from him OFC, bc thats his best friend, the man he loves, but he absolutly does not see Santi as someone he needs to stand in front of or control. He respects him as an equal the way he did Steve. He does not need his hand held and I hope I can do better in future chapters as they do more detective work going after Lorea. He's young, only 25, but a lifetime of being parentified and adult responsibilities had made him capable and smart beyond his years.

And in bed, although Candy takes the lead, through these weeks with Candy Santi has grown far more comfortable and can pleasure her for hours. It's just not shown rn bc in fics I have limited time

It's his emotions though, thats what needs protection.

We'll go more into it in a few chapters but his mom was emotionally incestuous. If you don't know what that means, let me clarify that it does not mean he was molested. It means that she treated him like husband. They Santi was expected to work from age 9 to keep the household afloat, the way his mom allowed him to stay up late with her as she complained about his dad and his sister.

His older sister, Elena, was not super helpful either but seeing as their mom was physically abusive to her and emotionally abusive in different ways, she was a victim too. These sorts of family dynamics are designed to keep siblings apart, to prevent them from banding together. Elena resented Santi a lot for not standing up for her, for their moms special treatment, but as she entered college and learned about feminist theories, she brought a new issue t Santi, even if it was inadvertent. The need to be a better man than their father, a better man than the men who victimized her.

Between his mother and sisters expectations and his strict catholic upbringing, Santi is absolutely CRUSHED by the need to be good, to be perfect, to never slip up ever. He's nto allowed to slip up, and that means repressing his sexuality, repressing his desire for Javi so far down it manifests in constant anxiety. Candy is his only outlet. Candy allows him to feel sexual without feeling like he's harming her, like he was taught sex before marriage would do...

Until A few chapters later, when the bubble bursts and all his guilt comes crashing down... but that's later.

[ryttu3k]

More Dark Urge questions by @daemon-in-my-head ! Previously - set 1 (post also links to previous question sets), sets 2-3.

Here, we have set 4, set 5, set 6, and set 7, because I procrastinated on these for so long that every time I got near the end, another post would appear!!

Content warning for all canon-typical Durge stuff, plus incestuous sexual harassment and mention of pregnancy in set 4, question 6.

Set 4

1. The song that describes you Durge best from your own perspective?

I Want To Live is more Astarion-coded than anything else, but honestly, it works great for a resist!Durge too (and it's a duet, and he's romancing Astarion so it can work for both of them simultaneously!) "There's more to do if we can only live"…

2. OK and now the song that your Durge would actually sing along to because they like it?

Probably something upbeat and bouncy? Pre-tadpole, it'd be the kind of… 'extreme violence set to cheerful/energetic music' vibe. Post-tadpole, it's a lot more genuine and optimistic, haha.

3. What was your Durge's dream before everything happened? What did they want to become? Did they want to stay with their family or did they strive to go adventuring?

Tavias is a people pleaser, deeply insecure, and needs to be needed and wanted, and Father Comes Before All, so his dream was honestly 'do whatever Bhaal wants of me'. It was the impetus for him originally pushing away his fairly justifiable horror at the Temple and cult, knowing that if he did well enough, maybe his true father would return and like him, and it continued to motivate him up until Orin's attack. His dream would have been to carry out Bhaal's plan of omnicide, although he did have a secret quiet desire that Gortash would be by his side the whole time, and that Gortash would be the very last life he took before his own.

If we're talking before he killed his foster parents, honestly, his main desire was to find somewhere where he belonged.

4. Did your Durge ever fulfill that dream or did the temple and cult get in the way? Did they simply discard it? Why?

I mean. In a way XD He assumed he had fulfilled his dream by finding the Temple, his ~true~ family. He actually does end up finding a place where he belongs post-tadpole, though - with Astarion, with Halsin, with Jaheira. With people who love him for himself, not his heritage ;_;

5. What does Durge think of family? Describe it with one word.

Messy.

6. Sarevok, what was his relationship with your Durge like? Did they like each other? Was it complicated?

They goddamn loathed each other. From Sarevok's perspective, when Tavias first comes to the Temple in 1472, there are only a few remaining Bhaalspawn - himself and Orin, Abdel, who famously disavowed Bhaal, and Veikang, who's been keeping quiet for all these years. Sarevok sees himself as the head of the Cult of Bhaal, and Orin as his heir (having already pit her against Helena two years earlier, and Orin being the survivor). Now there's this child, an outsider who knows nothing of the cult's ways, who's being positioned as the new leader - and worse, he's far more 'pure' than even Sarevok is, than even Orin, his bespoke Bhaalspawn grand/daughter, is. It was instant resentment.

On Tavias' part, he initially did want Sarevok to like him. Sarevok was kin. His older half-brother. He had always wanted older siblings, and now here was one who knew all about the strange place he had found himself in, only for Sarevok to dislike him? Very crushing. His disgust and dislike started growing as Sarevok made no secret (behind closed doors, of course, had to present themselves as a happy family to the cult!) of his own dislike, and definitely amped up as he learned about Orin's parentage - and Sarevok's plans to create an even more pure Bhaalspawn. Tavias was, at least, treated as a boy from the moment he arrived, but Sarevok was well aware that Tavias had the right anatomy to get pregnant, and pretty much… would try to convince him that the two of them would create the Ultimate Bhaalspawn.

Tavias was 16-17 at this point, more or less leading the cult on a daily basis after his successful murder spree, and, uh, had got very well-accustomed to using violence to solve all his problems. He told Sarevok that if he ever laid a hand on him (or the then-14-15-year-old Orin), Tavias would get revenge so violent and gory that even Bhaal would go, "Hmm, that may be a bit much", and more or less banished Sarevok just to running the Tribunal instead of the entire cult. By 1492, he thinks Sarevok is both washed-up and a disgusting old pervert who would be better off dead, and frankly, he's all too happy to kill his big brother when he finally returns.

7. Does your Durge know of Sarevok's past? What do they think about it?

He learns the 'official' version pretty early on, and all the messy details a few years in. It doesn't do much to improve his view on him, just reinforces the fact that he failed. In 1482, after Abdel and Veikang die and Bhaal returns, Tavias uses the fact that Sarevok's death wasn't required as evidence that his earlier resurrection around the time of the Crisis removed any essence of Bhaal from him; he was no longer relevant. It was just Tavias, and, less importantly, Orin (being only part Bhaalspawn), who would represent Bhaal in the future. Tavias was pureblooded, Tavias was the Slayer, Tavias had the Urge, Tavias was Chosen. Sarevok? He was yesterday's news.

8. Education in the Temple, what did it look like? Did they enjoy it?

Yeah, more or less! He had essentially four streams of education - a general education that any kid in Baldur's Gate would get, because Bhaal's heir would not be an uneducated hick. He was given Bhaal-specific education, about the history of the cult, of Bhaal, of the earlier crisis, and of other things relating to the gods. Technically, should Tavias had wished, he could have 100% qualified as a Cleric of Bhaal instead of a sorcerer. As it was, though, he was a sorcerer, and so learning to use his arcane abilities was the third stream; finally, he (and everyone else in the Temple) was given combat training, with a special focus on assassination and, uh, vivisection. He enjoyed it for the most part, although he's still not a fan of literature studies.

9. Did your Durge ever attend a gathering of High Society with Gortash? Did they fit in, did they charm their way into the upper echelon's heart or were they despised?

Oh yes, and he loved it. Tavias knew how to turn up the charm, even if he came across as… kind of disconcerting; on the other hand, the upper echelon was fairly used to 'disconcerting'. Lots of dirty secrets going around! But yes, he did take a lot of enjoyment in dressing up as the most beautiful person in the room and charming the pants off everyone. And if the occasional back-room murder happened, even better! :D

10. Ketheric Thorm's dream, reviving the dead. What did Durge think of it? Did they consider it a sacrilege as Ketheric wanted to reverse the death Durge so loved to sow, or could they understand the desire of wanting to reclaim a loved one?

He could vaguely understand it in abstract terms, but did not relate. By the time he met Ketheric, he had well and truly pushed aside any sentimentality, had been drinking the Bhaalist Kool-Aid for nearly two decades, and there was no one he thought would be better off alive than dead. His goal at this point was to murder the world, after all, and he genuinely believed the world would be better that way. The timeline is a little unclear on whether Isobel was resurrected before Tavias was attacked or not, but he definitely knew that the desire to bring her back was why Ketheric had turned to Myrkul, and also thought it was a stupid idea and a sign that Ketheric was a weak link in their plans.

Set 5

1. The Gate has more than just one cult dedicated to an evil aligned Deity. What does your Durge think about the Sharran Outpost establishing itself within their turf? Were there any sort of run-ins that escalated?

Honestly he just kind of takes it as a given that there are other cults and the like around the city, and the Sharrans aren't too close to the Temple. He doesn't like Sharrans - removing someone's memories when they could, say, be twisted and put towards murder instead seems like such a waste! - but he tolerates their presence (and, of course, they'll stay out of the Undercity if they know what's good for them :) ). For run-ins, I feel they would probably try to stay out of each other's ways, for the most part.

2. How did your Durge feel seeing the bodies of their brethren being ogled by the general populous in the Hall of Wonders? Disgust, pride, nothing?

A bit of disgust, if only because they're not being presented right, dammit. Museums set up a narrative with their exhibitions, whether intentionally or otherwise. Oh, some definitely try to be impartial, but every museum is going to go, okay, what story are we telling here? And they tell a story of Bhaalists as losers, Bhaalists as failures, Bhaalists as irrelevant, and - no. Bhaalists are very much on the rise again, thank you very much, and those bodies and relics should be displayed with care and pride, not as, "Look at this sad figure!"

3. Nine Fingers has dedicated herself to keeping peace between the warring underworld factions no matter the cost. What price did the Bhaalists require under Durge's leadership?

More or less the same as the Sharrans - try to stay out of each other's way. The Cult are more powerful and are backed by an actual deity (well, quasi-deity), but the Guild are far more numerous, and have their fingers - pun unintended - in far more pies. In a one-on-one conflict, a Bhaalist would win, but en masse, the Guild and their allies could probably do a fair bit of damage to the Temple. So they try and keep things… more or less chill. There's probably a bit of collaboration - if a Bhaalist needs some pressure put on someone in a more 'diplomatic' way than Bhaal would approve of, or if a Guild member needs someone disposed of but without the Guild itself being implicated, they could scratch each other's backs.

4. Speaking of Nine Fingers, what was your Durge's relationship with her like? Was it amicable or did they regularly come for each other's throat?

Yeah, amicable. Keene is a bit older than Tavias, and was a little surprised when he started openly leading the Cult when he was only in his teens, but hell, she was already doing Crimes at his age. So long as he's competent, no issue there.

5. The Zhent may follow Bane, but what did the Bhaalist leader think of them and their operations?

Useful at times. Pretty widespread, good contacts for smuggling in particular. He would let them use cult safehouses as drop spaces at times in exchange for a cut.

6. Mercenaries are a valued resource even for death cults and almost any significant operation in Faerûn. Did Durge ever hire any, and if so, what for?

Oh yeah, and similar to the kind of collaborations done with the Guild or Zhentarim. Sometimes, they'd identify a promising new member, send them on a test mission, and if they passed, they received an offer to join the cult. ('No' was not actually accepted. You become a cult member, or you become a murder victim.)

7. Did Durge have a last name? Why or why not and if they had any, where did they get it from? Was it self made or inherited?

Nope. In his childhood, he'd just use whatever his current foster family used, and after going to the Temple, it kind of… wasn't necessary. "Tavias who?" "…Tavias the HEIR OF MURDER??"

8. Does your Durge have a symbol of their own? What is it?

Ooh man haven't thought about it before but the Bhaal skull with added in dragon horns would be cool as hell.

9. Did your Durge have any familiars? Why or why not, and if yes, what were they?

Not unless Sceleritas counts!

10. Does a portrait of your Durge exist somewhere in Faerûn? How did it come to be?

Oh yes. Sarevok most likely had at least a few commissioned of the kids as they were growing up, and Tavias himself definitely had one commissioned in full regalia after Bhaal's return and being officially named Chosen.

Set 6

1. Durge flayed themselves at least once, why?

Sex, probably. Maybe as a pentinence thing? I feel he was quite willing to try Abdirak's methods because he was used to pain for pentinence and it just sort of… resonated. Alternatively, another way of communing with Bhaal? Taking himself to the brink of death or something.

2. What did they think when they wrote the Prayer down? Why was it so important for them to have a physical copy of it?

Kind of… a desperate attempt to get all his thoughts about Gortash out of his head, he'll do what he's told, he's a good boy, he really is. (It was a massive bit of downplay, saying he 'admired' Gortash. Tavias was in love with him, and if Gortash had asked if they could scrap their plans and leave their masters and make their own story, he would have been tempted.) He never ended up 'officially'. Uh. Submitting it? Praying it? Whatever, he wrote it down intended for Bhaal but had second thoughts and hid it in his room. It shows up in the colony solely because Orin found it there post-stabbing and brought it to Moonrise to taunt Gortash with, and left it in that room in the colony out of a moment of carelessness.

Gortash never ended up seeing it before Tavias found it again, recognised his own handwriting, and promptly had a panic attack at the implications.

3. Balthazar is an infamous necromancer and has extended his 'life' far beyond what should've been. What did Durge think of him?

The man has a sense of style, no doubt there, but Tavias doesn't like him at all personally. Necromancy certainly has its uses, but when it's used to prevent or even reverse death? Yeah that shit's not okay with Bhaal. He also got the impression that Balthazar personally thought little of him, and given how patronising Balth is about Tavias in his notes about Kressa's preoccupation with Tavias, he entirely correct.

4. The Warden hates Durge. Why? What did they do?

Swanned in like he owned the place. Mentioned offhandedly that if she wanted a professional to take care of the prisoners, he would be willing to give her a few pointers. Stared a little too intently at her.

5. The Worgs in Gortash's warehouse, what's the story behind them?

Just security, I think! I don't think Tavias was super involved in all of Gortash's plans, so he may not have even realised they were there.

6. Minsc is quite infamous, did Durge have a hand in the disappearance of his statue? Was it originally their plan or did Orin do something successfully by herself for once? How would your past life Durge react to it?

It was his idea, yeah. Minsc was a known enemy to Bhaalspawn, and he wanted to make sure he could get control of at least one possible obstacle by tadpoling him. If he had been able to find Jaheira, he would have done the same to her. Of course, Jaheira ends up adopting him and Minsc ends up his uncle, so… works out in the end!

7. If your pre-lobotomy Durge could say anything to your post-lobotomy Durge, what would it be?

I think he would be incredulous, but there's enough of the previously sweet kid there that there may also be a bit of envy. He'd openly be angry that post-lobotomy Tavias is rejecting his heritage and his gifts, but there'd be this underlay of, "Why can you do it, and I can't? Do I have to lose myself to be free?"

8. What was Durge's greatest nightmare?

Being cast aside by Bhaal, being told he was irrelevant and useless and unwanted.

9. What do they think of other deities? Especially those of their race or good aligned ones?

Ooh, answered this in an earlier post, will copypaste! "He thinks very little of Bane and Myrkul, considering them the weaker parts of the Dead Three. He has some passing interest in Mystra, although that becomes disgust and loathing after he befriends Gale, is a bit frightened of Lathander, doesn’t have a lot of consideration for Shar other than, “Well, she exists”, although he also ends up pretty disgusted by her after everything with Shadowheart, and is pretty sure Selûne would hate him on instinct but has no negative feelings towards her in return, and is really quite gratified when he’s able to help Aylin." Pre-lobotomy, it's pretty universally a combination of (somewhat performative) disgust and dismissal, and a bit of wariness / fear of those specifically opposed to Bhaal, especially Lathander, Tyr, and Helm.

10. Drizzt is quite famous in Faerûn. Did your Durge have an opinion on the man who betrayed his origins and rose to become a hero?

Drizzt is… a story figure, mostly. Like he knows he exists, but eh, so do a lot of people. Post-lobotomy, I think he'd be a bit more fascinated by him, I can just see him and Astarion starting a mini-bookclub, haha.

11. What would past Durge think of their new companions? Would they like, love, dislike or despise them?

Ooh, don't think he'd like them much XD;; He'd have some passing admiration for Lae'zel's willingness to FIGHT EVERYTHING, but Shadowheart is Suspicious(tm) as a cleric of a different god, Wyll and Karlach both seem too nice and good, and ditto Halsin but with added wariness, since Halsin is an Archdruid and over three hundred years older than him and not to be messed with (whereas he's pretty sure he'd be able to take Wyll and Karlach). He'd be more interested in Gale as a fellow Chosen, but see him more as a cautionary tale on why not to displease your deity or you'll be personally fucked over. I think he'd still find Astarion attractive, but more in a, "I think it would be hot to fuck someone who looks and feels like a corpse" kind of way XD;;

12. What does their handwriting look like?

Generally neat if he's taking time and effort, but when he's stressed, he writes too quickly and often blends letters together. It looks like that on the Prayer.

13. If they could have one modern thing in Faerûn, somehow through magical means or something, what would it be? Luxury toilet paper, a smartphone (no, charger or internet is not included), a history book for research perhaps?

Anxiolytic medication. :)

14. Shoes on or off in the temple? After all it is their home, so what’s their rule? Did they enforce it on others too?

Generally 'on' is advisable for most, given that it's… kind of gory underfoot. Heh. He does occasionally slip off his boots just to, er, enjoy the experience!

15. If they could rewind time to any moment of their choosing once, would they do it? And which moment would it be?

Ooh man rewinding is always a bitch. I feel he'd want to redo his first meeting with Bhaal and compose himself a bit better instead of getting a bit panicky and overwhelmed XD;; Post-lobotomy, obviously, he'd go back and make sure he never killed his foster parents…

Set 7

1. What is the worth of a single mortal life from the perspective of their former self?

"Only the value which snuffing it out gives to Father."

2. How does Durge actually view death? Is it a mercy, a gift, or perhaps just nature's course?

Bhaal's mandate. Something that people should embrace and welcome (be grateful when he murders you, dangit!), because the world is a shitshow and it'd be better off if everyone was dead, him included. Probably… probably fair to say that his views on death are a bit warped XD;;

3. What languages does Durge speak?

Mostly just the Baldurian dialect of Common, little bits of ritualistic Infernal, and a bit of Draconic. He can read and write in Espruar, although his pronunciation of Elvish is woeful (post-adventure, Astarion and Halsin help him out with it, and much to his delight, Halsin is also teaching him Wild Elvish).

4. How old are they when the game begins? Did their age affect them or how they view the other Chosen in any way?

31, although he looks more like early 20s due to his half-elven background. He's definitely the youngest of the Chosen - while Gortash is a reasonable 10-15 years older than him, he sees Ketheric as well and truly over the hill and an old relic who's no longer relevant.

5. What was their greatest display of self-control?

All the times over the last twenty years he hasn't killed Sarevok.

Seriously, if Bhaal had ever given him permission, Sarevok would have been a smear on the ground.

6. Did they ever lose control and what happened when they did?

Aside from one very specific time where he lost control and it ended up with him being eleven years old, holding a kitchen knife, and covered in his foster family's blood? XD;; Oooh yeah, several times. It usually ended with, well, a lot of smears on the ground. He more or less tried to 'ride the wave' and let Bhaal take the wheel, although he didn't absolutely love losing control. It was mostly a begrudging acceptance of, "Well, might as well happen."

7. Being divine and all that might have it side effects. Which one did your Durge have to endure? Did their immunity to poisons perhaps also meant they couldn't use potions or did they have a certain effect on people?

Pluses, +4 charisma modifier. Downsides, -1 strength modifier. Also if he had stayed Bhaal's Chosen he would have been functionally immortal.

8. If they could critique one thing about their father and get away scot-free, what would it be?

He has a few things to say about the downstairs anatomy he had been born with!! Also tbh he isn't entirely sure everything has to end in blood and murder. Like. Like can he maybe keep enough of a supply chain going for cinnamon rolls? Can he just kill, like, 99% of the world? Can he keep Enver alive?

9. Did Durge use utensils to eat or did they decide to embrace the old fashioned way Bhaal intended?

He has perfectly good manners when necessary! As a general rule, he only prefers being covered in the blood and viscera of his enemies, not, like, grease and crumbs from his dinner, y'know?

10. Speaking off, what's their diet like? Do they actually exclusively do the cannibalism bit or can they be convinced to eat normal food?

lmao definitely not exclusively cannibalism. He generally does eat like a normal person! Just that you have to ask pretty delicately just what meat is being served XD;; Has a definite sweet tooth. His favourite drink is Amnian dessert wine, his favourite foods are cinnamon rolls, and he loves fresh fruit, especially grapes. If you're having dessert with him, you're probably good to go!

[zmediaoutlet]

would you ever consider writing wincestiel again? because i ship it the same way you do (wincest + castiel) and it's so hard to find that dynamic, even though it's objectively the hottest (and most canon compliant, cough)

Man, I don't know! There are only a veeeeery few places I find that version (our version) (best version) particularly possible. I also really hate writing threesomes, lol. Too many legs flailing around.

But you're right, it's very very hard to find anyone who's interested. I mean, most people are either firm on wincest or destiel, and of those people it feels like most of them are very annoyingly rigid and downright hostile to other possibilities. I mean, a lot of destiel people truly are in their own universe, so I get why they just shed Sam as an inconvenience -- and they are allowed, so... may they have fun with it I guess -- and a lot of wincest people seem like they've been fandom poisoned so even the idea of Cas/Dean or even Dean being queer in any way outside of Sam-sexual is a 5-alarm threat. [nb, I have zero interest in sastiel -- I can see how one would build out chemistry there if one were inclined, but I don't see it in the show, so this is very much a relationship I think about with Dean as the center.]

But if you're free of both of those concerns, like -- man! Pining!Cas is very much a possibility granted by the text, as is queer!Dean, and even if wincest is canon (at least in the emotionally incestuous gencest place) you can make space for these recombinations to occur and for them to feel entirely possible within canon characterizations and canon moments. It's just... people would have to want to, and of course there's the rub.

For me, Sam's the biggest obstacle to wincestiel. Sometimes because of jealousy -- I think I wrote about this recently...? Oh yeah, this. More often because I think he's very aware of the actual stakes and scenario and is too kind to give false hope. Dean, too, although he may not articulate it that way. There are also some times that Cas wouldn't go for it, because -- much like Benny -- he actually does respect the wincest uber alles thing that Sam and Dean have going on. He knows what the hierarchy is, here.

So, all that said: the most likely way for me to write it would probably be still separated out into twosomes, e.g. Sam knows that Cas and Dean fucked in the past and is sort of okay with it, but also knows that he 'won' and doesn't want to rub it in Cas's face even though Cas is sitting silent in their library waiting for Dean to get back; or, it's early s9 and Sam's full of Gadreel and Dean's so goddamn guilty and scared and human!Cas is nervy and happy to see him and they fall into bed, one way or another, but Dean's got to get back to Sam and Cas knows that, and watches him go. etc.

I am never interested in 'equal' OT3s or perfect polyamory, unforch. I always need someone to be left wanting. Cas, with that crack in his chassis, is a very good candidate. Sorry, Cas.

[klondiketales]

1. Rocky dates a really nice man and they really have a good time, but Rocky has only Freckle on his mind, he thinks about what Freckle said or did during the date, and Rocky reluctantly compares Freckle to his new boyfriend, and Rocky understands that his boyfriend ... does not understand him, as Freckle did, there is no such understanding, and a feeling of kinship, besides blood, and despite the fact that Freckle did not mind that Rocky had sex on dates, but Rocky couldn’t do it, he had some kind of block in his head that prevented him from having sex with other people except Freckle, so it was just a date without sex, at the end of the date, the boyfriend kissed Rocky, the kiss was pleasant, but it wasn’t the same Freckle did everything differently, he would have made it much more pleasant, Freckle knew how to kiss Rocky correctly ... in general, the date was nice, but as you guessed, a failure, after which Rocky returns home to Freckle, who asks how the date went, but Rocky doesn’t let him finish, and kisses him passionately, thereby erasing the stranger’s kiss from his lips, to which Freckle groans, but immediately answers him, and yes, that’s what Rocky needed, sweet kisses from his cousin, Nina wasn’t there today at home, so they made love on the bed, something like that, and here is the second version

2. This is like the first version, but with the difference that at the end of the date Rocky has sex with his boyfriend, although it feels somehow wrong, but in the end, they have sex, and ... everything is wrong again, Freckle is the only one who has time behind Rocky's pace, and he even matches it, but the boyfriend doesn't keep up with Rocky's pace, the boyfriend fucks Rocky wrong, Freckle pushes in another way, slides this way, or kisses in another place, in the end, the boyfriend cums early, and he can't go for the 2 round, thereby leaving Rocky unsatisfied, after the date, everything goes as in the first option, but there is much wilder sex, because Rocky really remained unsatisfied, but Freckle knows how to soothe the itch of her cousin ... with he big dick, they go for a few rounds before they collapse, luckily Nina decided to stay late talking to her friend from church so our boys were able to get themselves organized before Nina returned

In general, even if Rocky had found a partner who could keep up with his pace, it would still not be the same, they were not Freckle, something about Freckle made him irreplaceable among other people, perhaps it was due to their similar experience of violence that made their connection even deeper, and more unique, something like this, I decided that it would be right to provide options for Rocky, so that he chooses who to meet, with his cousin, or with another person, well, I think the choice is obvious, and also, the first option is canonical option than, something like this

I disagree, here, too, although I respect your ideas. I think Rocky would have fun with a strange man. He would probably be fine not thinking about Freckle for a night. It would allow him to forget the guilt and shame of being in an incestuous relationship; he could pretend, just for a little while, that he’s a normal person, just like everyone else. He would be able to feel accepted and ordinary. The man he’s with won’t know anything about his tragic past or the abuse he went through, so he could pretend it never happened to him. He could make up an entirely different past to the one he actually has. He can lie and say he has a family who loves him and a nice, safe home, and the man would never suspect the sad truth. And I do think that a partner would be able to satisfy Rocky sexually. If they can’t, he would just pick someone else. But he’s good at picking the right ones. He can just sense them. He knows how to find the guy who will show him a good time.

Freckle might feel lonely when Rocky isn’t home, but he’ll be happy as long as Rocky is happy, and as long as Rocky does come back to him eventually. Freckle probably won’t feel as though he deserves to ask for more, since he still has feelings of guilt and shame too. I agree that Rocky is irreplaceable to Freckle, and vice versa, but I think Rocky would be able to have fun with other poeple now and then.

[darkdoverpseeker]

Heya! I'm an experienced 21+ aspiring writer seeking adult roleplay partners. I range from semi-lit to literate (1-5 paragraphs), and I occasionally write longer starters (up to 8 paragraphs) for practice. You don't have to match my word count on those starters, of course. I can provide one long starter daily and typically manage at least five short replies or three long ones per day.

I’m looking for an Undertale Multiverse (UTMV) roleplay, and am most interested in Cherryberry or Killermare, but I’m open to other ships too. My version of Cherryberry is already neck-deep in headcanons, so there would probably be a lot to discuss beforehand. I’m more picky with which pairings get a lot of focus and development, and there’s a lot of newer characters I’m not super familiar with, but that doesn’t mean I’m not open to new ideas!

For Cherryberry, I can play either Red or Blue, and for Killermare, I’d prefer to play Killer. I enjoy juggling multiple characters in the story, not just the central pairing; it would be great if you could handle a few side characters, too, but I'm comfortable managing most of them. Also, I LOVE seeing non-Sans-template OCs, Undyne- and Alphys-templates especially, so if you have any of those, let me know! They could be really useful as side characters!

I have a lot of plot ideas for Cherryberry, including one after a Reset and some fun tropey scenarios like a pirate AU. For Killermare, though… On that one, I’m interested in a more canon-adjacent scenario, focused on character development. If you have more plot ideas, I’m all ears! Fluff is good, but it can’t be the whole story; there’s gotta be some sour to balance the sweet. Oh, and NSFW is welcome, especially in lighter plots.

I like angst, as well as horror - it’s my favorite genre - so we could be getting into some pretty dark stuff. (Putting the 🕊️ here, just in case, although it's pretty light.) Violence and mild gore don’t faze me much, and I’m not opposed to major character death, as long as it’s planned and discussed ahead of time. Really, my only hard limits are that I will not roleplay any incestuous pairings, I will not write anything explicit with underage characters, and I will not pair a minor character with an adult one. I also will not be writing out scenes of sexual assault or abuse, but these topics can be brought up as long as they’re discussed first.

Oh boy, that ended up really long. Anyway, interact with this post and I’ll send you my Discord username!

interact if interested!

[eolewyn1010]

Interesting stuff and stuff I'd like to believe too! Frankenstein's not the only story that has incest, one of them she wrote pretty much a self insert who had an incestuous relationship with dad, and she sent it to her dad (who hated it lol), and she lost her virginity on her mom's grave... so I can't help but wonder

O...kay then?

See, you can believe about Mary Shelley whatever you like, and it'll probably be better informed than what I believe, seeing as I don't know all that much about her, biographically speaking. But I do have to wonder why you keep coming back to me about a point I have already said I don't care much for.

In the name of good faith, I'll discuss this to my best knowledge (which is, as mentioned, not much). Trigger warning for mention of child abuse, so I'll set a cut this time. Will be for the best anyway since this essay is longer. tl;dr - still no.

I looked up the story you mentioned, and I found Mathilda. I haven't read it, and it sounds way too dreary for me to invest money in it, so I'll work with what I've gathered from articles. Please note that I am obviously not completely informed.

Mathilda doesn't feature an incestuous relationship between the father and daughter. It features the father confessing his desire for his daughter, and then promptly committing suicide. As it was with Victor Frankenstein and Elizabeth, the incest itself doesn't take place; the "pair" is parted by death before consummation.

I think the evidence for Mathilda being Mary Shelley's self-insert is pretty thin. She's a depressed young woman dealing (or rather, failing to deal) with loss, fair enough, and her mother died shortly after her birth. So yeah, that sounds like a good case for autobiographical elements - but the crucial relationship doesn't qualify. Mathilda is raised away from her father and they only meet when she is already 16, and off we go with the unholy desires. Mary Shelley was very much a daddy's girl, was raised exclusively by him for the first several years even. We have a very different emotional situation here. So no, this doesn't convince me of Mary Shelley's incest fetish.

The theme of suicide is as present in Mathilda as is that of incest - more so, perhaps, because while the father's desire seems to be one-sided, both he and the daughter wish to take their own lives at some point; he does so successfully, she dies another way. If I had to take Mathilda the autobiographical way, this is what would jump out at me, hinting at a severe depression Mary Shelley might have had after the death of her children. The incestuous element may have been the trigger, but the tragedy discussed is loss - it might even be guilt, seeing as Mary Shelley's relationship with Percy Shelley resulted in the suicide of the latter's first wife.

Incest in literature was kind of a Thing in Regency. Jane Austen dealt with it before Shelley, Emily Brontë dealt with it after Shelley, and especially Gothic literature features it a lot. Percy Shelley had it occuring in Laon and Cythna, Lord Byron strongly implied it in Manfred (although he actually had a direct autobiographical reference for that), Edgar Allen Poe had The Fall of the House of Usher. It seems to me like that was just the shortcut for Romance Doomed To Fail back in the day; compare today's dead horse trope in YA literature - the goddamn love triangle wherein our heroine tragically has to choose between two equally attractive, equally bland love interests. Incest was Regency literature's go-to for a tragic romance subplot, and frankly, it can be just as cheap.

Then there's the angle of doomed to fail, of never consummated. Comparable to the medieval idea of courtly love, incest as Mary Shelley depicts it is a desire never to be fulfilled. Elizabeth dies a virgin, Mathilda's father rather kills himself than touch her. This plays into the argument I've already made before - that, at least when it comes to Frankenstein, the entire incestuous relationship is weirdly de-sexualized. Even if Shelley's interest in this subject were singular in Regency literature, I still wouldn't read it as fetish material. There are no overt sexual fantasies in it; the relationships are tragic and leave one party seriously bitter and broken.

Compare this with Flowers in the Attic. Or, worse, compare it with basically all Marion Zimmer Bradley has ever written. And the latter sexually abused her own children - if anyone can safely be said to have had an incest fetish, it's her. These days, I'm incapable of looking at her writing without getting nauseous, because she used to milk incest for all the titillation she could get out of it. The way she wrote it, that was fetish material. It was sexually explicit, it was apologetic, it was even glorifying. Mary Shelley writes about incest as a tragedy, as a cruelty of fate, not as a big opportunity for smut.

And finally, the anecdote about her losing her virginity on her mother's grave. Uhm. Sure? That seems to be a thing? Couldn't find more than anecdotal reference to it; I don't have sources. If I wanna be petty, I can say that the references went on about the churchyard, not the grave, but that's a moot point bc I wouldn't know either way. It sure is a weird thing to do, although the relationship consummated here is still that of Mary and Percy Shelley, who is about as far removed from either of her parents as can be. Her mother was a nonentity in Mary Shelley's life. No idea if she fantasized about her, but it was not as if there was any real relationship to build upon. She had an actual and pretty complicated relationship with her father, but the fact that he hated her choice of a partner and advised her not to publish Mathilda doesn't convince me that there was anything incestuous between them.

[abcdosaka]

I’ve been on a huge manga kick recently if it wasn’t obvious. I recently read searching for my perfect brother. Genuinely I did not expect it to be so good. I read the fan tl last night and then I reread it today (the official). like authors barely disguised fetish aside, it was really really well made and written. and genuinely I don’t even feel I can judge the incestuous aspects of whatever the hell their relationship turned out to be bc it’s not like it wasn’t even acknowledged how fucked it is like it was literally the last line in the manga (aside from the letter). “What does a perfect family look like? I never knew that to begin with.” Like what a gut punch. Despite just how weird both rize and kairi turned out I felt so bad for them like I’m glad they got away with it.

Tbh really similar vibes to fire punch (incest bc of terrible upbringing), oyasumi punpun and killing stalking (murder and strange toxic relationship. I guess fire punch has this too). although I think rize and kairis relationship didn’t end up thaaat toxic in comparison? Like kairi is, imho, really not that bad of a guy. rize is also not that bad of a person either. neither of them really did much that I would consider crossing some sort of line. but that probably says more about me than them lmao. it’s not that I don’t think murder is morally wrong, but killing a rapist POS does not really matter to me in the slightest. Because why not get rid of a guy like him? What does he even do that’s good? Like could Masaki be “redeemed” even though he shows no remorse and has damaged so many lives? if he did show remorse then would it even matter? that might even be how he thought like “I’m so deep in acting like a POS there’s no way I could become a happy member of society that contributes to collective good” not that I would know but if I were him that’s how I’d think. I mean even before he died he seemed like he was just fucked for good no matter what. Idk maybe if they put him in the clockwork orange he’d have a chance

It’s funny though like I’m saying I can’t judge the incest kink aspect bc I get how they got to that point but I can judge masaki for being scum even though I also get how he got to that point? I guess another thing is

1. the incest shit isn’t really hurting anyone (other than maybe themselves like mentally) bc it’s not like they’re actually related whereas masaki hurt so many ppl. Well idk it might hurt their future kids. Mentally.

2. It kinda felt like masaki was making excuses for himself acting like shit whereas rize and kairi just accept that they are strange but if it gets them to be happy and live “righteous” lives then it’s a net positive?

3. I would consider myself against the death penalty or punitive measures in general but I’m totally brushing off kairi murdering him. But overall what reason do I have to say hey that guy shouldn’t have been killed? I guess since my own values kind of inform my response then someone else having different values would also be able to brush off a different crime bc what makes my opinion more important than theirs?

idk. Anyway it was really well done fun to think about and the tension was sustained really well thru the entire thing. It’s great that it was so succinct too

[awsok]

i know you are a wolfwren enjoyer (me too!) and see baylan and shin through the lens of a father/daughter dynamic (which is so interesting and factual!) however, knowing that you enjoyed hotd too and its themes and postulating that star wars can be interpreted really darkly/in a gothic way, have you ever considered the relationship between baylan and shin being something /more/? i’m not even like a full shipper or anything but i just think that it can make sense in the world they are inhabiting after Order66

i'm not going to stop anyone from having that perspective, but it really doesn't click for me. and for me that mostly comes down to my interpretation of baylan where i just can't really concieve of him ever seeing shin in that way. and the fact that i assume (although of course this is just my perspective) that they met when shin was probably quite young (if not a child then definitely a teenager) squicks me out a lot.

you brought up hotd so i assume we're mostly talking about daemon and rhaenyra here? they feel like the closest parallel to what you're getting at in terms of older man/much younger woman and the psuedo-incestuous vibe (though of course it's literal in hotd). i feel like i should state for the record that daemyra is not something that i ship, but is a dynamic that is 1. compelling and 2. an integral element of the show. i think what's interesting about them is that the power dynamic is so confused; by all rights daemon should hold the power as rhaenyra's uncle, and as a man in such a patriarchal context. yet rhaenyra is the heir, and is favoured by viserys in a way daemon is intensely jealous of. and the one moment where daemon tries to act on his power over rhaenyra (choking her in episode 10) is the moment where he discovers aegon's dream, which rhaenyra knew and he didn't: ultimate proof that rhaenyra was chosen and trusted by viserys as heir in a way daemon never was (despite being heir for maybe as long a period as rhaenyra was). and rhaenyra ends up with a barely bruised throat and the crown still on her head and reassurance (finally) that her father loved her. and daemon gains nothing.

anyway. what was i saying. the reason why i can stomach daemyra and enjoy analysing them over being grossed out is that their dynamic is so confused and layered. it's about so much more than just them and there's many more aspects to it than just predatory groomer uncle and victim niece. that definitely is what is happening. but it isn't the only thing going on. a major aspect is that they seem to want to be each other to an extent. (remember when emma d'arcy described them as conjoined twins separated at birth trying to get as close as possible? yeah.) plus there's the fact that their relationship is canonically romantic. it's not a reading i'm choosing to put on them, it's their canonical status, and if i'm going to engage with these characters and their dynamics i've no interest in denying that.

sorry i'm really rambling here. the point is (there is a point here somewhere) that i don't really see why baylan would be attracted to shin (beyond the fact that she's an attractive woman etc.) i just really don't see that kind of control appealing to him. i think it does to daemon because he feels he's been cheated out of things that were rightfully his (being heir, his brother's love, having a targaryen wife), and seducing/grooming/marrying rhaenyra is a way of grasping at all three of those. daemon is trying to shape rhaenyra in his image/shape himself in her image/shape them both into the relationship he could have had with his brother etc.

whereas baylan is grappling with the loss of what he did have, not just what he wanted. both are scrambling for control but baylan's way of doing it is focusing on the jedi and trying to end the cycle. i don't think having a romantic or sexual relationship with shin would help baylan feel he has reclaimed the jedi or made peace with his past in any way, so i don't think he would want it. (if anything, i think it would make him feel even more distanced from the jedi, and not in a way he wants)

there's also the fact that despite what he says, baylan CLEARLY misses the jedi, respects them and their history, and honours many of their beliefs. he seems to retained most of their values (aside from like. killing and using the dark side etc.) as indicated by his judgment of ahsoka when she initiated a fight in 1x04. whether he has remained celibate is anyone's guess, but i strongly doubt he would go so far as to predate on a much younger woman (sorry if that's overdramatic, but the power imbalance between him and shin does make any kind of sexual/romantic intention on his part feel predatory to me). all of baylan's immoral acts so far seem to be in service (or at least he could convince himself that they are in service) of his mysterious mission for the "greater good". but having that sort of relationship with shin would not be in service of that at all.

(it has just occurred to me that i'm coming at this from a pretty logical angle and that attraction isn't really a logical thing. unless baylan was made to be canonically gay there's no reason why he couldn't potentially be wildly attracted to shin or whatever i guess. but i really don't get the impression that he is from the show.)

okay, okay, elephant in the room time. (this is so fucking long already i'm so sorry). i've only talked about baylan's feelings so far; so what about shin? and like. not the vibe i get from her at all but shin being interested in baylan that way feels vaguely plausible i guess? like in the sense that it's not uncommon for young women to be attracted to men who are significantly older and in inappropriate positions of power. but again, not the vibe i get from the show (plus my headcanon is that shin is a lesbian i think. but that's purely subjective).

i do reckon that when shin and baylan first met that shin was pretty wary of his intentions. my headcanon has always been that shin was probably like. a preteen or young teen? and had been surviving on her own for a while. so a much older man taking a sudden interest in her would probably ring alarm bells. but if anything, that kind of first impression would surely make shin less inclined to see baylan in a romantic/sexual light, and to only trust him when she is assured that he doesn't feel attracted to her.

okay wow this was so long i'm so sorry. basically tl;dr not only is that not the vibe i get from these characters but i also don't think it would be consistent with the characterisation we've been presented with, particularly on baylan's part.

that said i am interested in what drew you to that interpretation of these characters! i don't think anything you could say would convince me to ship them, but i'm genuinely curious (and not in a judgy, can't-wait-to-tear-it-apart way) about what it is you see in these characters that makes you interpret them in that way. feel free to send an ask expanding on it if you want!

i hope it's clear that no part of this post was intended as a judgment or as aggressive, i just wanted to discuss my interpretation and ended up writing an essay lol. thanks for sending this ask, i really enjoyed getting my thoughts in order and figuring out exactly why baylan and shin feel so platonic to me beyond initial vibes!

[alphabetsoup-blogposts]

Did I ever want the job? No. Did I ever apply for it? Yes.

So, I asked [𐑡] for suggestions to escape from [my job] and, ideally, the City of London. [S] was still on the [same] premises when I asked, which had set me off—back then I don’t think I felt able to approach [S] directly then (although at one point in 2017, I think, I did tell him that [he had] my ideal job and he said it wasn’t as ideal as I might think). I think I hoped that [𐑡] would say “oh [my friend] knows [S], why don’t we make an approach to him…” But, equally, I was losing confidence, I’d kind of given up thinking I was good enough for the “overseas” bit and I’d sort of decided that I needed to do it in two stages--out of [my job] and then out of the country. So, although I was probably hoping “at best” that [𐑡] would speak to [S] or ask [his friend] to do so (and I remember that quite clearly), I might have presented my request to [𐑡] less specifically, less in the manner of a direct request--or I might have said “could you or [your friend] have a word…”, it’s certainly possible.  Anyway, he said “can I send you details of this new programme to recruit [women] with different kinds of experience and expertise?” and right on the spot I expressed ambivalence.

...

So, [𐑡] sent me the application forms at [my address] and I filled them out while [the Boy] and I were on holiday in Guernsey that year. I can’t begin to describe how heavy, slow and unwilling I felt about it all.  I sent them to [him] to ask if he had feedback and he sent them back saying they weren’t really good enough and would “benefit from as much time as you can spend on them, Jo” (more stuff like .—.-not so much the feedback as the fact of the need to give a wholesale performance review that makes you feel bad about yourself before you even begin).  As I plugged away at the forms, I became more and more depressed just thinking that being a judge would be a kind of living death.  I was also beginning to worry very seriously that it would bring me into greater proximity to [𐑡] and [his friend].  It may have been around this time or a bit later that i said to [my neighbour] that I’d become kind of paralysed about applying for any jobs--even a dream job [overseas]—.-because I was worried that if I did any kind of work in the small incestuous world of financial markets law, [he] and [his friend] would just “pop up in a corridor” and try and tell me how to do my job.  I was also becoming aware that I hadn’t really managed to find referees that weren’t influenced by [him] and [his friend]. My old CV still had [my Boss] and [him] on it.  I told [him], too, that I wanted to work overseas and was occasionally depressed. The trouble is I had the sense that he was talking to [my Boss] about me on the basis of his mistaken assumption that we were somehow “special friends”.  I was using “depression” as a way of telling people that the external stimuli in my life were really out of kilter and I needed a change in order to manage my mental health and prevent it deteriorating --I still do--but I wonder if [he] was telling someone like [my Boss] that what I really needed was more protective avuncular watching by [him] to safeguard my mental health.  That’s how horror films work, right?  The victims’ fears and complaints are just used to bring her into closer proximity with the thing she fears.  I don’t know. That could just be the fact that once you get to a certain point of fearing someone, you become irrational about it.

At some point between the conversation at Cafe ,,, and the Dinner at the ..., I became convinced that [he] and [his friend] were managing everything, that they were invested in having people beholden to them and/or negatively incentivised by them (carrot and stick): that [he] and [his friend] might not have a view on the definitional boundary of Spot FX but if anything key was being decided, like [geopolitical engagement], they would pop up and find a way to say how you should do it. Perhaps that was neurosis, I don’t know, it’s how I felt.

I submitted the forms and told [him] I’d done that and he invited me for coffee at Natural Kitchen. I’d got to the point where I believed this to be the only option on offer and I’d realised I still didn’t want to do it.  I explained it to [him] in terms of “it’s just not me--I haven’t enjoyed being a barrister, this won’t make it better, I don’t find myself in sympathy with judges most of the time and one of the things about [where I work now] is that I say that with the benefit of quite a great deal of knowledge”.  I mean, just on a basic calculation whatever people think they know about me--and [some] used to say “you’d make a great judge”--is wrong. I’m irreverent, restless, impatient, easily irritated by waffle or BS, put off by pomp and circumstance, and motivated exclusively by [the chance to explore] the changing the big picture, the trillions, the political corruption and “wrongness” of the world, [to see administrations] creating new things, new rules, new regimes out of thin air.  None of that is any part of judging. And anyway I don’t even need to use my pre-frontal cortex and the power of reasoning to know that being a judge would be a living death--that’s a base amygdala kinda thing.  I said it to [E], for example, for years before that.  He wanted to become a judge, it was a kind of life dream despite all his success as a [lawyer], we had several difficult conversations when I had to explain that I didn’t see the world that way, wouldn’t be interested in following in his footsteps, didn’t want a closer association like he did with judges (including [𐑡])--back in the day [E] seemed to need my approval or admiration, or at least to want it quite badly. Anyway, as I’ve said, [𐑡] was very angry but in that suppressed way he has.  One thing he said during that conversation was that he’d been appointed as a kind of mentor.  He didn’t actually say, I think, that he was assigned to me--because that would be odd, given his insistence on “friendship”--but at the same time he strongly implied it.  And perhaps he didn’t even say that he’d been appointed, maybe he just said something like “I’ve invited you to coffee because [someone influential] has been concerned to invite qualified [people] to act as mentors to this programme” or something.  I had the sense of his hedging what he was saying and I was confused... In contrast at some point--it may have been then or on the phone later—I recollect that he dropped in that this was really an application for a taster opportunity. I’m trying to think about why I was confused about that, having filled out the forms. Looking back I still don’t know (on that sole point) exactly who said what, what the forms said or what I understood.  I think possibly that [he] sort of sold this as a possible alternative route...  I did understand most of that from the beginning but there was nonetheless a kind of shift--from the idea that it was an application for the first stage of a long and highly competitive process to the idea that it was an application for a taster session to see if you might want to embark on a long process.  Anyway, another reason (if I needed one) for my ambivalence was indeed this idea that all I was doing was embarking on some kind of long evaluative process (at best) and I really felt not only that I didn’t want to make it over the finish line at all but also that it was a distraction from the urgency of my needing to escape.  In other words, even had I wanted to be a judge, at that stage I would have preferred an instant low key job outside the City of London and legal environs rather than a more prestigious but deferred job within it.

[tmisaccidentreportbook]

MAG030, Killing Floor

Case #0130111, David Laylow Release date: August 3rd, 2016 First listen: 5th November, on the walk home. I remember walking past the Rushy Lake wall as the statement was starting.

In which I sat down to start writing, pulled up the episode, saw the title, and walked away to go make dinner early… I’m also going over my messages with dodgylogic at the time of the first listen and this one is in her Top 3 episodes.

- So I’ve done a little looking and I was somewhat shocked to see that Dalston is actually in London. Now, disclaimer, country bumpkin here, but it’s within the A406 ring road so as far as I’m concerned, it’s London. And the fact that I’m shocked, is exactly what I think this statement is going for; the fact that this sort of work is going on so close to major populations. Ok, now, I’m probably going to fumble this, but I don’t think it had computed in my brain, I’ve just always envisioned abattoirs out in the countryside, close to farms and with plenty of room. Or alternatively, the whole process handled by a butcher, because, yes, I grew up in a the sort of village you’d expect to see on the front of a biscuit tin and we have a traditional family butchers. They did damn good work during the pandemic, chased out folks who’d driven in to buy up their stock when they have an ageing an immobile population that depend on them. Taylor's Family Butchers, big respect. Anyway, I’m examining this now because historically, yeah, the animals would be driven into town to be butchered and processed in the community they were going to be sold. Makes sense. So I think it may be quiet telling that my brain had just glossed the concept over. Bit embarrassing and stupid really, my university town had an abattoir site until it was torn down in 2014. I think it’s a Premier Inn now.

- ‘I won’t say which one.’ I get that fear. There’s been so much I want to write about, about my work. Exciting things, entertaining things, things that need to be muttered into the ears of law makers with all the threat of King Claudius’ poison. But I haven’t and when I do, I keep it vague, although the discerning could probably work it out. Because my employer hasn’t the clearest guide lines on social media use and such and it became a whole lot easier just to not. Which made it all the more galling when the social media teams did put up stuff and got it wrong. It’s not like they had the experts to ask a few offices away, or failing that, the internet to ask, but I will leave that rant for the foot soldiers being kept from saying their piece for another time. But yeah, saw folk higher up the chain posting whatever they want and I was there in the knowledge if I put anything up, it would come down on me like a tonne of bricks, so forget it. Also, my industry is pretty niche and fairly incestuous, and I’ve seen stuff come round to bite folks in the arse.

- ‘I never did (get a weird vibe)… Maybe that says something about me, though.’ I work with animals. Have done for near a decade now. And people always ask me how I take the deaths, because there are a lot of them. I’m not sure if I’ve hardened or if my mentality of ‘Every day is a knife fight with God’ has solidified, but in most cases, it elicits a sigh and a small swear before I start the process of preparing for our vets to perform a post mortem. Not often does an animal’s death impact me to the point I where I grieve, it has happened, but not often. These aren’t pets of mine, they’re more like strange little work colleagues, that have a natural life expectancy much shorter than my own.

- ‘…every damn animal in that place knew exactly why they were there.’ I can believe. It doesn’t matter how well it’s cleaned, but cattle alarm pheromones will stick around and induce fear and stress to other cows. You spook one, you spook the herd. And the herd that comes after that. And the one after that. That’s before we even talk about the stress of a new environment, noise, travel etc.

- Hearing David talk about the ‘casual human brutality’ is difficult. Really difficult. Because you know it happens, not just the abuse itself, but the fact that the observer can become so numb to it. Can disassociate what is happening given time and practise. I’m thankful to say I’ve never witness what I’d consider ‘human brutality’ to animals, but I have seen ‘unnecessary carelessness’ which has often had me gritting my teeth and saying something. It’s typically down to a difference in husbandry practises. And I try and be civil. And if I couldn’t be civil I’d go get our vet, who is a woman who takes exactly zero shit and has no problem telling the collection manager exactly where he can stick it if he refuses to wear gloves despite me asking him, twice.

- ‘… just noisy meat.’ prolonged pained conflicted noises

- ‘…you start to kind of see people as meat too.’ I wonder if that’s the case in other professions too. Probably not to such a severe level of disassociation maybe, but do morticians look at people and measure them for a coffin? Do forensic pathologists try and see what would be cited as the cause of death? Do surgeons think about how much pressure they’d need to apply for the first incision?

- ‘…it’s hard to believe in any special spark that makes us humans any different.’ Mood. The only thing that makes us special is that we figured out agriculture and domestication of other species. All goes down hill from there.

- ‘…we could turn into a lifeless carcass just as easily.’ The human body is so fucking ridiculous. I am saying this as someone with a first aid level of medical training, I am very much a layman here, but the fact that we can lose limbs, multiple limbs, and pull through is incredible and wild. But you roll over funny and you can say good bye to walking or you hit you head just wrong and it’s lights out. Humans are so squishy. We make no sense.

- ‘I only worked it for a few months, and now I can’t work on any killing floor anywhere.’ Very sensible, good working practise and all, but this is a terrible jump for my brain to make and I can’t decide if it’s terribly disrespectful or poignant or both, but I recently learnt about the Sonderkommandos that worked the crematoria of Nazi death camps and how teams were liquidated at random intervals and… yeah.

- Yeah, I need a mug of tea now.

- ‘Of the people who’d worked the killing floor for over ten years, do you know what percentage went on to commit murder? One hundred percent.’ I’d like a citation of this study please. I would like to read it. But I’ve also done a quick search of more recent studies, and I realise that it’s too long since I’ve needed to read any scientific paper with anything more than surface level understanding. And while study David references would have been carried out in the 50s, there are still concerns to this day. A 2021 study, drawing data from U.S., Australia, South Africa, Turkey, Brazil, Denmark, and Ireland, found that there is a higher prevalence rate of mental health issues, depression and anxiety in particular, those affected tended to employ a variety of both adaptive and maladaptive strategies to cope, and there is some evidence that slaughterhouse work is associated with increased crime levels. Worrying, as the U.K. slaughterhouse industry has a 70% migrant workforce, people already vulnerable.

- ‘They call it “stunning”, but that’s never sat quite right with me.’ Yeah, that’s… that’s just lobotomising. more concerned distressed noises

- ‘The Bleed Crew’ is at once a horrifying concept and a baller band name.

- Tom Haan. Interesting, complicated one. The fact that he is from China and doesn’t appear to speak much English is a good representation of how the U.K.’s slaughterhouse industry relies on an immigrant work force who may otherwise be short on options for employment and are, unfortunately, easy to take advantage of. On the other hand… yikes. I have ague memories of this being discussed and Jonny unintentionally feeding back into some unfortunate stereotypes. I don’t know what prompted him to make Tom Haan Chinese, whether it was an honest desire to have more cultural variation in his characters, but he accidentality walked face first into the wall of racist stereotypes.

- ‘…but in practice no-one asks to be moved (from the killing floor). It shows a weakness that most of the people working there aren’t comfortable with.’ Iiiiii’m gonna go out on a limb here and say ‘most of the people working there’ are under the influence of toxic masculinity and a protestant work ethic amongst other things.

- ‘My feelings weren’t really working back then.’ (Hears this.) Concerned noises. (Remembers my darker days of late 2020.) Concerned noises at half an octave higher.

- ‘… in perfect English, ‘You cannot stop slaughter by closing the door’.’ Sinister in many ways; the actual words, the supposedly hidden grasp of English, and also, ok he doesn’t specify the accent, but if it IS in perfect BBC English… look, we’re the bad guys in movies for a damn good reason. And considering the British Empire’s historical relationships with mainland Asia… yikes.

- I’ve done some jobs where I was able to just switch my brain onto idle and go through the motions. I would find it therapeutic, especially one volunteer role I had at a foodbank processing stock takes. And it was wonderful because it was like reverse retail therapy, I had some semblance of control over something for 2½hrs on a Monday morning because I put the cans where they went on the shelves, and the background was a lovely group of recent retirees and stay at home dads who were happy to be a listening ear to a twitchy early 30s lass who was just trying to get her bearings. The point is, it worked because that trance like state made me very receptive, and thankfully what I was receiving was good vibes, kind advice, and tea with slightly stale biscuits. David is receptive to a circle of hell in that state.

- ‘It was the silence that finally brought me back to myself.’ The troupe of ‘it’s quiet… too quiet.’ is one of the most unnerving ones for me. Especially when there’s meant to be animal noises about; livestock, bid song etc. Because they’ll know things before we ever could.

- ‘There was no clock in that room.’ Is that typical? Or safe? Or is this just for spooks?

- ‘I surprised myself a bit with how quickly I accepted this situation.’ Another example of someone accepting the situation and dealing and processing it. I wonder if there’s a part of the psyche that realises that realises that what’s being experienced is something eldritch and unknowable and so shuts down logic and reasoning and instead concentrates on survival.

- Ok, so we’ve got a labyrinthine complex, our lone hero, and we’ve had cows coming through… Theseus and the Minotaur anyone? Also, sidebar, did you know the Minotaur of legend actually had a name? Asterius or Asterion, meaning ‘child of stars’.

- ‘These rails would never normally follow the passages of the slaughterhouse like this, and that fact bothered me, though I’m not quite sure why.’ Some little animal part of the brain still screaming ‘WRONG, NOPE, BAD’. I’ll do that, I mean, you’ve seen how I try to make the timelines behave when it can so easily be explained with ‘eldritch fuckery’. But I think I remember getting real bogged down in the delicacies of the heart surgery in Iron Man 3 that the science of the Extremis procedure completely washed on by.

- ‘Meat-bone separators, splitting saws, scald tanks.’ Delightful names.

- ‘… I don’t know how long I wandered. It felt like hours, though.’ Wibbly wobbly ooky spooky timey wimey.

- ‘The sky was a dull pink – the colour of blood being washed into a drain.’ … Yikes.

- ‘… and I began to cry. It was like something numb within me had shattered, and I couldn’t… I just couldn’t.’ I think it’s clear that David had been struggling with his mental well being before the incident took place, struggling and aware as he asked to be removed from the killing floor team. But this emotional and mental self awareness is refreshing in these statements. Especially from a man in an industry as rife with toxic masculine ideals as this.

- ‘(The scent of blood) had a strange sort of comfort to it, as it was the smell of the slaughterhouse as I had known it.’ I think the underlying horror of this other place, this abattoir in waiting is exactly that, it’s waiting. The threat is there and it hasn’t been actioned yet, it’s just waiting.

- ‘Pigs, cattle, sheep, I think I even saw a few humans in the pile, though without heads or limbs it’s hard to tell the difference between them and pigs.’ YUP. There a reason pig carcasses get used in forensic science to demonstrate the changes a cadaver goes through.

- ‘But (Tom Haan) didn’t make me fire it. I did that myself.’ Ooof, buddy.

- ‘I wish I felt bad about his death, but I don’t. I don’t feel anything at all.’ Good grief, please seek professional help.

- It got discussed in one of the Q&As that for an Avatar to… ascend shall we say, that a death was typically involved, or at least a metaphorical death. With some Avatars, the deaths have been of others; Peter Lukas’ with Jon becoming the Archivit, Jude Perry with her banking colleague, Agnes Montague with her own mother. Tom Haan’s death seems to be his own chrysalis, if this is indeed the point at which he ascended from agent to Avatar. Seems fitting, that it should be the case for The Flesh.

- I did a surface level google and couldn’t find an Aver Meats in Dalston, but there’s reason to believe that this London is not Our London, so I might leave it there. It might be Jonny has had to invent a business, it might be that if there is an abattoir in the area, they have a discreet web presence that I’m missing.

- ‘…which I would say are symptoms of PTSD, but he has strongly declined to seek treatment.’ Oh buddy, no, seek help. David was aware that he wasn’t well mentally and he’s emotional state was declining. If anything, he’s well on the way to the mental state that was so often referred to in the studies done on slaughterhouse work and crime.

- ‘… he had been renting a house in Clarence Road for almost a decade, and it was in quite a state of disrepair when he left.’ Between this and MAG018 The Flesh really seem to be murder on property, don’t they? Dread to think what the fridge looked like.

- ‘Immigration authorities are somewhat useless…. No official effort has been made to locate him, and the police were reluctant to open a new case, so we didn’t push it.’ Well… doesn’t that just make you feel fucking warm and fuzzy on the inside. Oh what? That’s rage? Oh no, yeah, that tracks.

- ‘… having trouble retaining builders, four of which have already quit.’ Interesting, considering it’s another male dominated field. I wonder if that was indeed Tom Haan’s ascension and the transformation has left a permanent scar on the site having it ‘already seemed to be way too big’.

- And I think there’s some very important discussion to be had about the industrialised meat industry. It has gotten monstrously big, and faceless, and removed, and wasteful. That image of carcasses just falling off conveyor belts and into a pit for presumably grinding up, is a terrible, wasteful image, of animal and human life and of the meat as a resource itself. I don’t know enough about butchery to know what sort of percentage of an animal goes to waste when processed for meat these days. I don’t know, I know small scale butchers will work differently but small scale and specialist butchers are harder to find and can be more expensive to buy from. I will buy local from suppliers I trust as best I can, but I’ve got the privilege of living in a market town in a rural area. And while I have the resources now, between working for a charity and the cost of living crisis, I’m having to think carefully, And I have the resources, a lot of folks may not. It grinds my gears how, like with fossil fuel burning and global warming, the ethical guilt of meat, egg and diary production is foisted onto the individual consumer who may have limited access and financial freedoms to chose, when really animal welfare and husbandry should be protected and held to a higher standard legislatively and support offered and research done properly. I know they try but I’ve heard some DEFRA horror stories and a few bad apples, whole barrel, you know the drill. Still not over the hell they put us through during the 2020 AI outbreak. Ok, I’m getting off the soap box, it’s gone midnight, I’m ranting with no receipts.

- I’ve done a little bit of butchering in my time. I’ve been part of keeper teams that’s tended tigers and lions. I’ve butchered what I think was horse meat, delivered in blue plastic barrels and thawed overnight. I’ve worn the butcher’s gauntlet, got 2 as curios on my bookcase Mum found at a car boot for me. I’ve plucked more quail and gutted more rats than I care to remember. But I’ve only ever had to kill a handful of animals, and that was always as humane euthanasia after veterinary training. Still fucking sucks.

[vivacissimx]

hmm my thing about the Rhaegar & Cersei what-ifs is that any actual Rhaegar/Cersei would undo a very well-executed layer of Cersei's characterization, that is, her unfulfilled grooming to be a Targaryen bride.

There is so much targ proximity in Cersei specifically, how from a young age she expected to marry Rhaegar when the person who would usually expect to marry a targ man would be... his sister / that she grew up in the Red Keep (but not quite in Maegor's Holdfast, just the Tower of the Hand), so her father isn't a King but the next best thing, making her the next best thing to a princess / that she's not averse to but enthusiastic about her incestuous relationship / that the ACOK comet in the sky is somehow both Lannister and Targaryen red / her attraction to wildfire, the knockoff dragonfire

In particular there's a callback to two Targ queens with Cersei, first with Alysanne, who Cersei pretends she is in her drawing of her and Rhaegar:

When she was just a little girl, her father had promised her that she would marry Rhaegar. She could not have been more than six or seven. [...] once she had drawn a picture of herself flying behind Rhaegar on a dragon, her arms wrapped tight about his chest. When Jaime had discovered it she told him it was Queen Alysanne and King Jaehaerys.

-AFFC, Cersei V

It's interesting because Alysanne never rode behind Jaehaerys. She had a dragon of her own! The gender of Targaryen women is not one of power in their own right although neither is it one of accessing power via their brother-husband's alone. Third space baybee. One of Alysanne & Jaehaerys' greatest victories was subduing the Faith by disbanding the Faith Militant, creating the Rule of Exceptionalism, and taking an active role in choosing the High Septon. Cersei specifically unravels that by allowing the Faith Militant to reform after having the High Septon who was hand-selected by Tyrion for being amenable to bribery killed

And then the next High Septon arrests her for, among other things: incest! Truly poetic cinema. The Targaryen legacy is something Cersei can fantasize about and touch but she can't sustain it, or it fails her, however you'd like to slice it.

The other queen Cersei is placed in coversation with is Naerys, wife to an insatiable king famous for misrule, rumored to have slept with/been in love with her Kingsguard brother. Aemon the Dragonknight is a legendary fighter who crowned Naerys QoLaB. There are songs sung about them

That whole narrative is pretty clearly meant to mimic the Robert-Cersei-Jaime dynamic, it's the same story but nobody is singing any songs about Cersei/Jaime and in fact those twincest rumors are met with disgust. Joffrey certainly isn't another Daeron the Good (although they're both mistrusted by their fathers), and while Myrcella is sent to Dorne to make peace just like Daenerys Lateborn was, she's far less successful. Where we have Naerys, romanticized and for all purposes passive, the opposite is true for Cersei, who often alludes that power would be better placed in her hands and has never been known as a friend to the commons. Probably no songs being sung about them, then.

We do talk about Cersei's dysphoria wrt gender, the way she's twisted and forced into the person she is and how she copes with the trauma of Robert's abuse through a gendered escapism. Looping this into my point about her gender as proximally Targaryen: Rhaegar Targaryen's memory is a bulwark in her defense arsenal too. Cersei telling herself "the wrong man came back from the Trident" while Robert assaults her, that she "would close her eyes and pretend that he was Rhaegar," is NOT her trying to make the experience a good one or live out a romantic fantasy! It's actively coping with a gendered violence she can't escape by invoking the memory of a man who wouldn't treat her that way. It's imagining herself a world where she isn't stripped of her agency, a world Rhaegar is a tool for, in the same way "in the darkness I would eat your heirs" is a reclamation.

When she wears a dress evocative of Rhaegar's armor at Robert's funeral, she's both armoring herself & armoring herself in Targaryen regalia. It's euphoria & it's telling.

If I were a man I would be Jaime, the queen thought. If I were a man I could rule this realm in my own name in place of Tommen's.

-AFFC, Cersei VIII

That boy had wanted to be Ser Arthur Dayne, but someplace along the way he had become the Smiling Knight instead.

-ASOS, Jaime VIII

If she had only married Rhaegar as the gods intended, he would never have looked twice at the wolf girl. Rhaegar would be our king today and I would be his queen, the mother of his sons.

-AFFC, Cersei V

There's also this! The twins Cersei and Jaime; the dreaming of themselves in a world where they're celebrated and good people, the people they first imagined themselves to be. The person they still could be, it's not their fault, they tried, why can't people see? A fantasy to be sure, but such a well-woven one and so consistent across the Lannister twins. If Cersei had married Rhaegar she would be queen, a queen as good as Alysanne on the back of a dragon; if the ball hadn't begun rolling when Jaime swore himself to Aerys, he could have been as righteous and honorable as Arthur Dayne. But from the outside as readers we have to question: wouldn't you still be you? And what really defines that?

The queen regarded him coolly. "I had not thought you so niggardly. The king I'd thought to wed would have laid a wolfskin across my bed before the sun went down."

-AGOT, Eddard III

The king Cersei thought to wed was Rhaegar, and he (probably) wouldn't have killed the direwolf either. Yet in every timeline, Cersei would. Rhaegar's memory is her armor, and her armor, like Jaime's unstained knighthood or her own perceived higher suiting to masculine power, is not reconciled with the expectations of the world around her.

Rhaegar as Cersei's fantasy is interesting also because it's fruitless. Really he would have only disappointed her and it would be another cold marriage with nothing new to tell us. As is, however, we get this incredible trauma narrative of Cersei's marked separation from Targaryen women, we get her wearing the Targ black & red gown that made her look half a corpse just like Jaime!, we get the incredible foil relationship between her and Daenerys (who is also compared to Rhaegar, to Aegon, to Alysanne as queen of the smallfolk, to Naerys who she looks like; meanwhile Cersei is contrasted against all of these). It's so rich!!!! That she didn't marry Rhaegar, that she was never even close despite being molded for the role, is part of what makes Cersei so satisfying as a character despite being unsatisfied as a person.

It's a pillar of her dysphoria. There are other gender dysphoric asoiaf characters, but I'll just say it: none of them approach it quite like Cersei Lannister.

[edoro]

If Philip couldn't bare to have his brother find love and a life elsewhere without him being part of it, then could it be possible that how he treats the Grimwalkers (although definitely changed over the years) was how he always wanted to treat his brother?

(The only reason why Philip wasn't able to treat his brother that way (or at least not as intensely) was because he was older. So the Grimwalkers could possibly also have an aspect of wish fulfillment for Philip because now he can have his brother and not have to share, and if he leaves? He can just get another one)

seesawing hand motion

i think the answer is yes and no here.

i do think that like... i think Philip's feelings towards Caleb were, to say the very absolute least, incredibly unhealthy, possessive, and controlling. to what degree their actual relationship allowed him to express that is a matter of speculation at this point. (i would argue that "trying to murder your wife and then you" does not spring fully formed out of nowhere, so, it was probably fucked up in other ways before that.)

(my personal headcanon is that the two of them were in fact embroiled in a deeply toxic codependent incestuous clusterfuck for most of their lives, a dynamic they both played into in various ways, and that Philip very much did deploy the same suite of emotional manipulation against Caleb that we see him doing later on in the show.

for a significant period in their lives, they genuinely were each other's only source of comfort, kindness, care, or safety; they understood and knew each other on a level no one else did or could, and they had only each other to rely on. this suited Philip perfectly well, because he had Caleb all to himself, and it made it very easy to do that sort of "you can't leave me, i need you" kind of thing he likes to do.

of course, then when they ended up in the Boiling Isles, it was very culturally different, and Caleb embraced that and started meeting people who actually were safe to get to know, who did understand and accept both of them, and Philip could not fucking stand that, because suddenly he wasn't the single most important person in Caleb's life and none of his manipulation about how he needs Caleb more than anybody or how no one else will ever understand or love Caleb the way he does worked anymore, and he flipped.)

but yeah like the dynamic between them is interesting to consider, especially with Caleb being older. that could have protected Caleb to some degree - it meant Caleb was less helpless than a dependent child who Philip was a parent/guardian to, for sure, and meant that until they were both adults, Caleb had a physical advantage over Philip, but it also offers Philip a very handy avenue of control that i mentioned up there - you can't leave me, i need you, you have to take care of me.

being older or bigger and stronger doesn't necessarily make a person immune to abuse or manipulation, after all!

i do think that like... he's really a very childish person, he's an interesting foil to Luz in that way, where he's essentially just been recreating his childhood game of make-believe on a grand scale for hundreds of years, making brother-things to play with him, etc - he tells Luz that her sense of reality has been warped by the Boiling Isles, but he's the one who refuses to see what's actually going on in front of him.

so that comes out with Caleb. he remembers his playmate, his protector, his caretaker - Caleb seems to be significantly older and have spent a lot of time with him, and we don't see anything of their parents, and the fact that we see him put Hunter into a caretaking role suggests to me that's how he saw Caleb.

and yeah like you said, he doesn't want to share. he wants Caleb to just be his and focus on him and love him and agree with him, forever. he wants to be the most important person in Caleb's life. not being the most important person in Caleb's life feels like a deep personal betrayal.

so there's, yeah, that core foundational sense of Caleb belonging to him. and i think that very much is the same with the grimwalkers. moreso, even - he made them. they only exist because of him and therefore they only exist for him. even more than Caleb, i think he sees the grimwalkers as just toys. they are literal objects for his entertainment and consumption.

i do think that the grimwalkers were significantly more dehumanized in his eyes than Caleb, because, well, they weren't human. they were just crude facsimiles of a human. and Philip played along with his own fantasy of them as replacements for Caleb, yes, but they were ultimately still just things he made out of corpse parts and demonic ingredients, things born from the very materials of this infernal realm he's found himself in, things that bore Caleb's face but also were fundamentally wicked.

his treatment also stemmed from his anger at Caleb, but i don't think that saying "he was angry at Caleb's perceived betrayal and also processing his own grief and guilt by displacing it all onto Caleb and making it Caleb's fault" is quite the same as saying "he ALWAYS wanted to treat Caleb this way"

and then of course the fact that their dynamic was incredibly different, that rather than them being his guardian and caretaker, he was their guardian and caretaker, really changed it too. it meant that he had power, and he could do whatever he wanted.

so i think his treatment of the grimwalkers came from, ultimately, a very similar place. they were stand-ins for Caleb in a variety of ways. if his and Caleb's positions had been reversed and he'd been the older one and in a position of responsibility over Caleb, he might well have treated them very similarly. but i do also think that a lot of things were different enough that we can't necessarily say "this is how he always WANTED to treat Caleb but couldn't," but more like, "the way he treats the grimwalkers is a pretty natural and logical extension of his manipulative and possessive behaviors towards people he wants or needs something from when enacted on someone who he has complete and total control over and access to"