a list of timestamps, for no reason :)
thesis statement : No, what blue did tonight and what red did the last two nights are not the same.
disclaimer: this is not a judgement of right / wrong, this is a glorified compare and contrast paper.
a TL;DR is available at the top, immediately following the keep reading link (which i hope, for your sake, is still there).
for each vod i have compiled the time stamps first, and then under the heading "notably" have compiled and compared them.
this is the most toxic i will allow myself to be.
TL;DR:
Blue team on Day 4 took 2 seconds from first task claimed to last. Red team on Day 2 took 5 minutes 14 seconds from first task claimed to last, and on Day 3 took 42 seconds.
Blue team on Day 4 was vulnerable in the area for 2 seconds before claiming their last task. Red team on Day 2 was vulnerable in the area for 8 minutes 31 seconds, and on Day 3 was vulnerable for 12 minutes 10 seconds.
The time blue team spent getting situated before logging out in global is not counted in this as being vulnerable because it is not a viable strategy for an entertainer to waste 4 hours of their limited time camping global to ensure no one is logging out.
Red team claimed their first global task on Day 3 with 13 minutes until the server closed. On Day 4, Etoiles and Roier arrived to stop blue team from applying the same strategy with 15 minutes until the server closed.
Blue team's actions on Day 4 did not leave them open to any reasonable retaliation efforts once Tubbo logged out. The moment he logged back in, the tasks were as good as complete. Unless another content creator metagamed, they would not be able to stop him.
Red team's actions on Day 2 and Day 3 did leave them open to retaliation. They were not fast, they often did not have the items they needed crafted in advance and spent time in sight of the global task dome crafting the items. If a team had been waiting for them to try this at the global task dome as Etoiles and Roier did for Blue team, that team could entirely have succeeded in killing them or ruining their plans.
The global tasks on Day 4 were already functionally blue's 4 hours before they were claimed. Even if the disaster hadn't affected global, the way it was supposed to, the only thing left would have been revenge. There was no preventing it once Tubbo logged out.
The global tasks on Day 2 were open to reclamation for an hour after red team claimed them. By Day 3 blue team was aware of red's strategy and had a full 12 minutes (at a predictable time! see below) in which they could have attacked red and stopped them.
What blue and red team did was not the same.
Below are the time stamps I used to get this data and draw these conclusions. I've included links to vods for verification purposes. These links are not future proofed.
November 7th, 2023: Day 4 of Purgatory
TubboLIVE's VOD:
1:47:20 : Tubbo logs out of the server, behind the blue "contracts" NPC. He has 15 minutes 32 seconds of server time remaining.
5:50:23 : It is 3:48:52 am in Tubbo's time zone. Tubbo shows the clock on his screen. There are 11 minutes and 8 seconds until the server closes.
5:50:49 : Tubbo loads in, behind the blue "contracts" NPC. It is 3:49:41 am. This is the first moment the game is visible on his screen. He has 15 minutes 03 seconds of server time remaining.
5:50:50 : Tubbo claims the first of the global tasks.
5:50:51 : Tubbo claims the last of the global tasks. It is 3:49:43 am.
Notably:
Functionally, tubbo was standing behind the blue NPC, invincible, for 4 hours 3 minutes and 3 seconds
There is a 29 second period of server time that I can't account for.
The total time it took for tubbo to claim every global task after loading in is 2 seconds.
The cooldown for every global task before it can be reclaimed is 10 minutes. In this case these ten minutes started at 3:49:42 and 3:49:43 am. The first moment any of these claimed global tasks can be reclaimed is 3:59:42 am, with 18 seconds until the server closes.
Etoiles's VOD:
4:56:08 : With some leniency, this is the first clear view of the blue "contracts" NPC and the spot Tubbo is "standing" shown on Etoiles's stream.
*(the blue NPC comes into view at 4:56:06 but whether Etoiles would have seen Tubbo there is dubious enough that I have opted for a later time stamp)
4:56:12 : Etoiles and Roier enter the global task dome. They are standing directly to the left of the red NPC; on the opposite side as the blue NPC. The spot Tubbo is "standing" is clearly visible on Etoiles's stream. Etoiles has 10 minutes 40 seconds of server time remaining. There are roughly 15 minutes and 30 seconds until the server closes*.
*(Time calculated roughly using Tubbo's log in message; this is not exact)
4:56:17 : Roier is standing in front of the blue "contracts" NPC.
4:58:03 : Without leaving global spawn, Etoiles disconnects to get a buffer on his time limit. Remembering that there is a disaster coming, he immediately re-logs to avoid the combat logging penalty. Roier does not disconnect during this time.
4:58:18 : The first frame of the game is visible after Etoiles relogs. Etoiles has 8 minutes 53 seconds of server time remaining.
4:58:45 : The quicksand disaster starts, affecting global spawn despite admins having informed Etoiles previously that disasters did not affect global spawn.
5:00:08 : The disaster ends.
5:01:17 : Tubbo logs in. There are roughly 10 minutes 11 seconds until the server closes.
Notably:
Roier is standing three blocks away from Tubbo's log-in point (effectively, three blocks away from Tubbo) at 5 minutes before Tubbo logs in.
Were Tubbo logged in, waiting physically at spawn, Etoiles and Roier would have been able to initiate combat 5 minutes and 5 seconds earlier. Both had plenty of time on their server counters to participate in this combat, albeit Etoiles would have been kicked before server close. Roier would not be (source: Slime's vod, 2:45:05 and on. There is no disconnect message for Roier before the server is closed at roughly 2:45:08).
Were Tubbo logged in, waiting physically at spawn when Etoiles and Roier arrived (at roughly 3:44:37 am in Tubbo's time zone, 15 minutes and 23 seconds before the server closed), and had claimed all global missions at that time rather than risk dying in combat, the missions would have been able to be reclaimed at roughly 3:54:37 am, with about 5 minutes and 23 seconds before the server closed. This is 5 minutes and 5 seconds more than the actual time.
November 5th, 2023 : Day 2 of Purgatory
This is the first day red has used this strategy.
Cellbit's VOD:
6:52:27 : Cellbit arrives at the plaza outside the global task dome (Carre is already here; he wasn't streaming so I don't know when he arrived).
6:52:49 : Cellbit enters the global task dome. He backtracks to the right of the global task dome, and sets up a crafting area to craft items for the tasks somewhat out of sight of the dome. He is 96 meters away from the dome.
6:55:34 : Cellbit re-enters the global task dome.
6:55:44 : Cellbit claims the first global task for red team (electrolytes). The cooldown is 10 minutes 41 seconds.
6:55:49 : Cellbit claims one global task for red team (radiation medicine).
6:55:55 : Cellbit claims one global task for red team (campfires).
6:56:04 : Cellbit leaves the global task dome and sets up a second crafting area to the right of the dome after losing the first. This area is in full view of the dome, and is roughly 61 meters away.
6:57:40 : Cellbit dumps every item in his inventory except for iron and minecarts and a shield into a chest (he is functionally defenseless).
6:58:18 : Cellbit re-enters the global task dome.
6:58:23 : Cellbit claims one global task for red team (minecarts).
6:59:12 : Cellbit claims one global task for red team (diamonds).
6:59:49 : Cellbit gets his sword out of the chest (he is no longer defenseless).
7:00:58 : Jaiden claims the last global task for red team (rails). The bananas task remains unclaimed.
7:01:01 : ElQuackity is visible outside the dome on Cellbit's stream for the first time. Cellbit chases him.
7:04:34 : Cellbit kills ElQuackity, putting red team in the lead.
7:48:07 : The server closes.
Notably:
Red team is physically present, visible, and murderable / stoppable at the global tasks area for 8 minutes 31 seconds.
Red team takes 5 minutes 14 seconds to claim their global tasks.
The cooldown on these global tasks leaves at minimum 36 minutes 28 seconds to reclaim, maximum 41 minutes 42 seconds to reclaim before server close.
If a team were to have come up to the dome during the 8 minute 31 second period, they would have seen the team and could have attacked or stopped them.
There is a 2 minute 9 second period where Cellbit literally does not have a weapon in his inventory.
If a team were to have come up to the dome while the red team was still crafting the global quest items, they could have attacked and prevented the team from crafting the items and forced them to retreat without claiming those goals.
November 6th, 2023 : Day 3 of Purgatory
This is the second day red has used this strategy.
Cellbit's VOD:
3:39:11 : Cellbit sees Bagi on the bridge to global. There are 24 minutes and 2 seconds until the server closes.
3:39:49 : Cellbit enters the global dome, standing just to the right of where the red NPC is on November 7th.
3:40:24 : Cellbit exits the global dome to craft the water bottles needed for the global task.
3:42:58 : Cellbit crafts the final water bottle needed for the global task.
3:43:28 : Cellbit, Foolish, and Carre re-enter the global dome.
3:44:15 : Cellbit and Carre exit the global dome to inspect Bagi's body. Foolish exits the global dome to use the crafting table.
3:45:36 : Cellbit and Carre re-enter the global dome.
(There's a few more entrances and exits from the dome during the following period, though they stay within the area marked with Bagi's body, the global NPCs, and the crafting table as corners : Never much more than 61 meters away and never out of sight of the dome)
3:49:45 : Cellbit sends the message "hey guys we are about to deliver global tasks you should come!" There are 14 minutes and 18 seconds until the server closes.
3:50:39 : Cellbit claims the first global task for red team (tea leaves). There are 13 minutes and 26 seconds until the server closes.
3:50:59 : Carre claims one global task for red team (gas masks).
3:51:01 : Cellbit claims one global task for red team (hot cocoa).
3:51:09 : Cellbit claims one global task for red team (water bottles).
3:51:12 : Cellbit claims one global task for red team (backpacks).
3:51:21 : Carre claims the last global task for red team (tea). There are 11 minutes and 52 seconds until the server closes.
4:03:13 : The server closes.
notably:
Red team is physically present, visible, and murderable / stoppable at the global tasks area for 11 minutes and 28 seconds before they turn in any global tasks.
Red team takes 42 seconds to turn in all of their global tasks.
The cooldown on the global tasks leaves at maximum 3 minutes 26 seconds of time to reclaim, and at minimum 1 minute and 52 seconds to reclaim.
If a team were to have come up to the dome during the 11 minute and 28 second period, they would have seen and could have attacked red team.
If a team were to have come up to the dome in the 3 minutes 47 seconds between red team arriving at the global dome and red team crafting all the water bottles for the global task, they would have seen and could have attacked red team.
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@zeroabyss replied to your post “@zeroabyss replied to your post “You're not wrong...”:
I definitely say a father telling him he has to do it all on his own and that he can’t even rely on his friends or even their fellow nations, definitely pushed Lyon to take the path that he did. No one can handle something on their own, and so Lyon was tempted to use the one power their texts said had the power to avert disaster.
You can see how this issue was more than likely a flaw when Lyon talks about him to the twins. About how his father took on the burdens all on his throne and barely, if ever rested. The man shouldered everything that it likely played into his worsening health and death, and his final words being to tell Lyon he can’t rely on help from others concerning a natural disaster and that the other countries would leave any Grado refugees to die at the border to protect themselves
Vigarde pushing all of the country's hopes and aspirations on his unprepared son was his mistake, sure, but...
Between Vigarde telling him to deal with Grado's fate alone because relying on Renais is impossible, and Vigarde/Father Mc Gregor/The World telling him not to free Satan to use his powers because Satan nearly destroyed the continent centuries ago, if Lyon had to pick one command to disobey, I suppose he could have picked the "I'm still going to ask for Renais' help" instead of "I'm going to use Fomortiis' powers".
Vigarde might have steered him in the wrong direction - Lyon already playing with Fomortiis' powers (to save a child! and then to predict tempests and save more lives!) was his own thing.
It's SS in a nutshell, good intentions alone cannot justify the worst means used to satisfy/reach them.
Lyon lamented and complained about his perceived weakness, feeling he would never compare to the twins nor would be the kind of ruler Grado will need to save itself... so he doomed Magvel, wanting to be the strong and kind person he wished to be.
I think this is the flashback where it's more or less spelled out :
Lyon:
“Mm… My research isn’t complete yet, but there’s no mistaking the power the Sacred Stones contain. And the Stone of Grado seems especially responsive to my dark magic. I suppose it’s because it contains both sacred and demonic properties. Regardless, if I can just press my studies a little harder… Well, I think I might be able to use it to heal my father’s illness. If that works, there’s no telling how many other people I can help as well.”
Eirika:
“Do you think this is wise? The power contained within the stones is beyond our understanding… My father tells me that the stones possess a power not to be trifled with.”
Lyon:
“Uh-huh… Father MacGregor is also against it. That’s why they still won’t give me direct access to the Stone of Grado. For the time being, I’ve made do with the radiant energies surrounding it. They’re nothing compared to the raw power of the stone itself, but… If I can show Father MacGregor some real progress, perhaps one day…”
(...)
Lyon:
“Thanks, both of you. Hearing those words from you means a lot to me. Actually–and this hasn’t been made public yet–but… I’ve already saved someone using the knowledge I’ve gleaned so far.”
Ephraim:
“You have?”
Lyon:
“Uh-huh… A while back, a fire ravaged Serafew, and a little girl got trapped in the flames. Her burns were terrible: not even healing staves were able to cure her injuries. But just a sliver of the stone’s power restored her life and healed her wounds. We saved that girl’s life, Ephraim! Oh, if you could have seen the tears of joy in her mother’s eyes!
Fado, Ismaire and I'm pretty sure Vigarde himself know it's not wise to triffle/use the SS powers... Father MacGregor is also against it, as the resident "holy man" around - and his words are important, since the Church of Magvel was founded after Latona, who fell herself (but managed to fend him off for some reason ???) to Fomortiis' possession! - but Lyon's reply is... Mockery? Or disinterest?
Father Mac Gregor wanted to prevent him from continuing on this path, and forbade him access to the Stone! But Lyon didn't care and still used what was... available, when he also knows the power he is using has demonic properties, and a will of its own!
Lyon's reasoning isn't "Father Mac Gregor is right maybe I should try to consider that I cannot "use" Fomortiis" but something like "maybe he doesn't believe me when I tell him this power can be used for good! I just have to continue working on it!" completely missing the point...
Or is he?
Sure, Lyon saved the Serafew child... but this hadn't made been public as of yet (2 years before the start of the game), like was this not enough to convince Father Mac Gregor that he could use those powers to do right and good things? Or Lyon himself realised he... "saved" someone who was already dead?
This flashback is even more interesting because we have this, the twins' failure :
Ephraim:
“Using the Sacred Stones to study magic…”
Lyon:
“Ephraim, Eirika, what do you two think? Using the divine power of the Sacred Stones in this way… You don’t think it’s a very good idea, do you?”
Ephraim:
“…It’s just that I know nothing at all of magic. I would that there were some way I could help you, but I simply can’t. But, Lyon, I’ve seen how hard you’ve worked to help others. I know how much you want the power to make others happy. I know these things, and because I know you, I trust your intentions.”
Lyon:
“Ephraim…”
Ephraim:
“If you hope to use the power of the Sacred Stone for good, I trust you can. I’m behind you all the way.”
Eirika:
“I agree with Ephraim entirely. You spend every night in the library, studying cures for your father’s illness. The power of the Sacred Stones is too powerful to be used for personal gain. But you, Lyon… I think you’ll be fine. You’re the kindest person I know.”
It's a double failure on their part, firstly because they give empty reassurances to Lyon claiming to know him, how he wants to use this power because he has the right intentions, or how it's totally not used for his personal gains...
When part of Lyon's desire for power was to help people, sure, but also, to be worth someone in Ephraim and Eirika's eyes!
Secondly...
No, the power of the SS (especially the one housing Fomortiis!) cannot and should not be used, even for "good" or with "good intentions". There are lines that shouldn't be crossed, even if it means not being able to save people/not reach your dreams.
The Epilogue in Eirika's route is very explicit :
Eirika:
“That would be nice… But first we must seal this away… This stone banished the Demon King. With such power… Do you suppose we could bring back Father and Lyon… That everyone who died in this dreadful war could be–“
Ephraim:
“Eirika.”
Eirika:
“I know, I know. Such things would be– I cannot wish for such things. No matter how it hurts, or rather because it hurts, we must learn to accept sorrow. We must take it into our hearts and tame our grief…”
Ephraim:
“Eirika… Tell me, Sister… If Lyon were here with us, what do you think he would want?”
Eirika:
“What he would want?”
Ephraim:
“Yes. You see, I think I know. It was the reason for his studies. It’s why he wanted to know about the Sacred Stones–or rather the Fire Emblem. Let’s take Lyon’s dreams and fulfill them in his stead. We can do that, can’t we? Without relying on any mystic power?”
Eirika:
“You’re right, Brother, we can. Let us fulfill his dreams. As Lyon wanted, as we all want… So we may live in peace and joy.”
Sure this epilogue sort of sucks because Eirika has to be explained things by Eph out of anyone (when we know how he takes the news in his route!), but the point still stands, tempted with the power to achieve the impossible... the heroes refuse and accept to move forward and fulfill their dreams (make the impossible possible?) without relying on mystic powers, especially if it comes from Fomortiis himself!
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