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noeggets · 4 months

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Ep 8 of batte netwoek is kinda like really needs to be rewritten

the first problem i have come to rewatching this series is that why are Lan/Megaman's friends around if they don't do anything? like they all keep saying they want to help but never do anything and then are the first people to shout "WE DID IT" when the only person who did anything is Megaman and Lan to some extent Maylu and the other kids but not their Navi's save for Gutsman sometimes

but Ep 8, im using English dub names but im watching the sub, the english names stuck with me so just deal with it

Anyway Mr Match is mad because he wants a rematch with Megaman, so he comes up with a plan to cause problems all over the city to get his attention. In doing so he melts all the icecream at the place it's being created, he heats up the stores so hot the places food are being stored boils like soda, he also makes the fishtanks in the petshop boil so hot it breaks the glass i know maverick activity.

one of the other things he does is he he heats up the salon and it messes up Maylu's hair while she's getting it done. Maylu is embarrassed about her hair but honestly it's really cute so she wears a hat to school to hide it

Lan starts laughing at her and she gets really upset Dex can somewhat hold it in to not laugh at her and tell Lan he's being mean but ultimately he's laughing at her as well but he does a better job at not laughing at her, idk what their laughing at she looks really cute????

So Maylu feeling extremely embarrassed deletes Lan's homework off his computer and walks away.

Part of me is like "lol, he deserved it" cause it was funny but if your thinking of this from another stand point even if she was mad at him she really shouldn't have deleted his homework that was wrong of her. Megaman even says Lan shouldn't have laughed at Maylu and Roll says Maylu shouldn't have deleted Lan's homework cause both of those things were wrong of them

While that's happening Megaman's worried about the fact the salon overheated for some reason and ask Rol if she noticed anything weird happening, Roll says she did not and Megaman says

and she gets mad and says

and Megaman's like "i did not say that" she then brings Gutsman into the fight for no reason and ask him who he thinks is "correct" and Gutsman says Roll is correct cause he's just agreeing with her to agree with her, i don't think he was even listening to the conversation he just doesn't want Roll to be mad at him.

This argument is stupid, Yes Megaman should not have said that like that but he probably just meant "in the end asking her wasn't going to help so that was a waste" and she didn't need to react this way idk what her problem is taking things out of context like that i guess she thought he was making fun of her for reason even though she should know Megaman wouldn't do that

ANYWAY Torchman he's still setting places on fire like the sauna and he also sets Lan's toaster on fire when Lan goes home and burns his toast but he still eats it like nothing is wrong and doesn't notice anything lol, Lan is rightfully upset Maylu deleted his homework and Megaman is like Roll is acting like a blockhead.

Maylu went to the arcade with Dex, Roll and Gutsman have a encounter with Torchman who's looking for Megaman, he gives them a message telling them to meet him somewhere.

Roll doesn't want to deliver the message because she's mad at Megaman so she tells Maylu instead, Maylu says she wants Roll to fight in Megaman's stead cause they can "Handle it on their own" and Dex just goes along with her, Gutsman the only sensible one here tells Megaman cause he's worried about Roll.

my problems with this whole situation is Roll knows she can't fight i honestly dont even think Roll is a fighting Navi Maylu just netbattles her sometimes but i don't think Roll's intended manufactures created her to fight, she probably could be used for fighting but Maylu doesn't train her to fight so she is bad at fighting but she's mad and wants to prove she can fight to i guess.

My next problem is where is the netpolice??? why is nobody calling the police Maylu should call the police instead of give the message to Lan that would be the sensible thing to do, ALSO WHY DOES THE NETPOLICE NOT ALREADY HAVE C HAUD ON THIS CASE???

anyway, Roll, she comes and Torchman's like "Where's Megaman?" and she's like im gonna fight you instead and gets beat up cause we all saw this coming. Megaman comes after she gets thrown around for a bit and they start fighting Torchman together, Roll doesn't move out of the way when he does a flame tower and Megaman saves her and gets hurt, Roll feels like this situation is her fault (It kinda is) and she uses a Aqua tower to propel Gutsman into Torchman and this injuries him greatly so Torchman retreats, Roll aplogizes to Megaman and they just stare at each other and laugh for no reason because i guess the implication is that they like each other but it just comes off looking stupid to me

Lan comes into where Maylu and Dex are and Lan and Maylu have the same moment of "i guess this is supposed to come off as they like eachother" but it's just weird to me and i don't like it and Lan "ruins" it by saying he only came because he had to save Maylu's butt and Maylu gets mad and Roll and Megaman are like "Haha things never change haha

....

I feel like this is how this Ep should have went even though a lot of things could have been avoided if they just called the netpolice or told an adult who knew what they were doing or somehow made this C haud's introduction

I do not think this Ep should have let Roll defeat Torchman cause that means shes winning and she didn't deserve to win anything in this EP because if she won it doesn't help her learn a lesson better if she lost cause Roll is the one who ultimately defeats Torchman in this EP, i also don't think Maylu should go unpunished this EP either because she wont learn anything from this either

I think Roll should have gotten hurt in a way that she needs to heal in the coming EP's, Maylu would be upset that this is all her fault for not delivering the message to Lan and Maylu will feel bad cause she let Roll get hurt, this opens the opportunity to maybe let Maylu have Roll learn to actually fight so she wont be on the battlefield getting her butt kicked and needing help all the time

I think Lan should apologize to Maylu in his own way and say something like "Im sorry for laughing at you but your hair did look really bad" and Maylu be over this so they can move on

EVERYBODY LEARNS SOMETHING HERE

im not hating on Roll i just think she needs better character development because her character doesn't grow in anyway from this and it keeps her as a damsel, if we want her to learn shes going to need moments like this in her life to teach her something, Maylu as well. AGAIN not hating on Roll but i just don't agree with a lot of things that happen in this EP and me personally don't ship Megaman Roll or Lan and Maylu, there could be ways to make them romantically involved in this EP but it's not handled in a way to make me care enough but i don't ship any of these people so i did not include ways to do so THIS IS JUST MY OPNINON. you are free to not agree with me. it sounds like im being hard on Roll but i want her to be more then what she is, she has her faults and her strengths and im complaining because i feel like her character was not done the best in this ep.

#Megaman battle network #maylu sakurai #Roll.exe #Megaman.exe #lan hikari #talkin #i promise i dont hate Roll #i love Maylu i literally draw her all the time

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mikichko · 3 months

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Right, so I have a question with everything that fucking went down

At what point do we draw the line between "I do not think this fits the character/I do not like how the character has been constructed" vs "I hate this character because they're black, or a poc, or a minority"?

Because I've SEEN people in the screenshot post comment that if you do not include gaz, then there's racism in there. But if I do not see the text blurb, or prompt or whatever fit any given character, then is that racism? And if I have to include the character if the opposite is racism, then wouldn't that be more inappropriate? Since I'd be including them out of obligation than a genuine interest/adoration/appropriateness of the character?

Because I'm not really concerned about all this drama that went down. Except maybe for myka being alive. But this has constantly been on my mind. So far I've believed that as long as I remain fair with what I like or dislike in a character, WITHOUT basing it on colour, then that's alright, like that's been my logic, and it made sense for me? But from what a few people have commented, it seems like whenever I do not include gaz (leave apart excluding him from t141 stuff, that's clear cut racism for me, because why include everyone else except a core member of the team when it says tf141) then it becomes racist?

Help me understand this, or atleast let me know who I can send an ask to that explains this.

Hi cariño! Firstly, I want to say thank you for being patient as I got back to you and cooked up this answer!

I also want to say thank you for sending this ask, because it helps me breach a topic I've been unsure on how to approach: nuance.

This'll get long, by my standards, but TLDR is: you have to learn to make that distinction yourself especially if you're a white individual or from a country where these issues aren't prevalent. Because, most likely, it wasn't a learned skill like it was for the rest of us POC.

First, the people commenting that anyone leaving Gaz out is racism by default are wrong. It simply doesn’t work like that. I love Gaz! He’s objectively one of my favorite video game characters and I love his character development in the last two games (we dont talk about MW3 here). But even I don’t include him in every single prompt because my personal characterization of him doesn’t match that. I want to remind you that just because those folks are loud doesn’t mean they’re right.

There is plenty of frustration, rightfully so, with the treatment of Gaz in the fandom. We’ve seen him constantly removed or replaced with other white characters. Black writers have even gotten anons who say they don’t write for Gaz because they “don’t know how to write for your people” (y’all need therapy and to touch grass). We’ve seen plenty of unsavory behavior. What differentiates this behavior and leaving Gaz out, or any character for that matter, based on vibes is nuance.

Let me give you a little context.

The thing about racism nowadays is that it's evolved. It's no longer the loud, brash, in-your-face racism that our parents, grandparents, and great-grandparents experienced. It's a lot quieter or subdued nowadays. It's my coworker saying he prefers light eyes to dark eyes because he finds them "more interesting." It's my friends and I being told that our hair pattern is "distracting" and that we should be presenting ourselves in a more "professional light.” Or my coworker making comments about how English is difficult after he learned that English was not my native language, despite me speaking it for eighteen years.

When you grow up in these circumstances it's really easy, for me at least, to tell when someone is being racist or someone just decided to not include a character based on vibes. There's also an existing hypersensitivity to this fandom because of the racism against Gaz, which is why I can understand why this situation started in the first place. But ultimately being privvy to these micro aggressions and being able to spot them is how you’re able to tell the difference between someone not liking a character at face value and racism.

I saw Myka's (codslut) post a day before I saw Madi's (soapskneebrace) post. Did I think it was racism? Not really. I was surprised to see '09 Soap and Ghost on there but aside from that I didn't think much of it. Kept going about my day. I will admit, I'm someone who takes things at face value on the first go around. I just trust my gut and instincts which have been refined through my experiences. My gut was telling me there was no malicious intent behind the post, just a post centered around more dominant personalities. I moved on.

Someone else made an incorrect assumption about the post, this is normal we all interpret things differently, and it spiraled out of control. I have my own opinions on how the situation should have been handled but ultimately I don't think this situation should leave you scared about not including a character based on vibes. If anything it’s a learning moment for you to come to understand that no matter how you word, phrase, or present things it will never land perfectly with everyone.

You said it yourself love, you operate under logic that is sound to you and it's also sound to me! You are taking the characters at face value, forming an opinion, a characterization, and moving forward based on that. I think it’s safe to say that you’re having objective opinions about this character. However, not everyone will see it that way, which again, is not a bad thing. We cannot control how people digest the information we give them. We can just try our best to make our intents known but after that it’s not on us anymore.

Nuance when it comes to situations like these is incredibly helpful. Because of my experience and learning to identify micro aggressions and dog whistles on posts, I’m able to deduce if something really is racism or not. I can see the subtleties within posts that let me know when someone is actually being hateful. It’s a learned skill that makes you a much better ally in the long run. If we take for example, the people you mentioned who said that Gaz not being included is automatically racism we can see that there is a gap and in turn they become a blind ally.

I don’t think that forcing characters is the right move forward. I also think a lot of people would agree with me. But it is the added context and subtleties of some of the posts and comments creators make on Gaz that really bring to light their hateful feelings towards him. Not because of his character at face value but simply because he is a black character.

I really hope this answered your question. If it didn’t please let me know! I’m more than happy to talk about this some more.

#.usps #.kiko-talks #.discourse #learning to spot micro aggressions amd just oddities will help a ton in knowing if something comes off racist and wrong #i think people have taken a lot of wrong lessons from this situation and this is certainly one of them #but like i said #you post with the right intent and you try your best #it’s a learning process and we’re all human #we’re literally all growing #but pls anon feel free to dm me or come back with any other questions

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hrokkall · 2 years

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Hi hello i would love to hear your hornet nest takes on P03 if you dont mind.... 👀

Three people want to watch me get stung by wasps. Alright, sure.

Disclaimer: I don't actually know just how "unpopular" these are but I know that at least some of it isn't very common opinion.

For starters: P03 is an asshole.

Obviously, this is not an uncommon opinion in the slightest, but it does preface the rest of what I'm about to say here.

My problem doesn't come with P03 in particular. There will always be people who interpret a villain as more of an anti-hero type character and honestly? That doesn't bother me. It can give the character more nuance and also gives a bit more solid ground to some of their actions. Interpreting P03 as morally grey/an "ends justify the means" type of character doesn't bother me in the slightest; I'd actually agree with a lot of it. To me, all four scrybes are sort of a "lawful evil" type of deal (with "law" being concerned with holding themselves to a specific code and "evil" being "putting their own desires above the needs of others even when knowing doing so will cause harm"), but if someone were to interpret them as more neutral entities, that makes sense in the context of the game too, y'know?

What irks me is when people will use this to excuse/dampen P03's actions and then... not apply that to other characters in the same work.

Magnificus is an excellent case-in point here.

Obviously I'm not going to excuse his actions. He tortured a bunch of college students to turn them into playing cards. That's fucked up. Doesn't matter how cool the abilities they end up with are; the means of that do not justify the end result.

But... P03 does the same damn thing. And I mean, almost identically the same thing. During the challenger's time at the Temple of Technology in act 2, you have to kill two of his three worker bots in order to proceed, after which they're inscrybed and used in his boss fight. "But they chose to do that" it actively tells you right at the beginning that they are to throw themselves on the line if they can't amp up the upkeep which—as they're not in charge of making specific bots come off the assembly line/making up new cards entirely; only P03, as the Scrybe, can do that—is therefore a necessity.

The worker bots are unwaveringly loyal to their Scrybe, yes, but... so are the wizard pupils. And the Woodsmen. And the Ghouls. The Ghouls never had to deal with Grimora doing fucked up shit (at least, not that we know of) but the Woodsmen certainly did! The Woodcarver says it herself:

He was controlling them, not the other way around. Not to inscrybe them, but still very much using the masks to hijack their personalities and put them in the game. But no one seems to really touch upon that.

The concept of inscryption is a whole different topic too but I'll keep it short: it's not a super black-and-white thing like how we see it (i.e. "Why the fuck would you want to be a card; that sounds miserable"). To the denizens of Inscryption, it's a pretty damn high honor to be a part of the game that governs everything around them. Even Lonely Wizard, who is the only underling to defect from their scrybe, doesn't seem to particularly mind the fact that they're inscrybed (and are willing to stay in such a state as long as they're in anyone else's deck), the part that they're (rightfully) pissed about is the fact that they went through years of sensory deprivation only to be inscrybed by someone completely different whose method was so much less painful comparatively. Full body scan with your entire body being rearranged into something inorganic has got to be painful, but not as drawn-out as being stuck in the dark for years.

The only reasons why the Scrybes are so miserable about their fates is:

They're not even in their proper bodies, they got changed into low-level beast cards.

They're used to being on the other side of the table; they're supposed to be the ones running the story and they don't like being strung along.

But I've gotten off track.

My point is, I like P03. I like people's interpretations of it as more neutral than outright evil. I'd prefer if people didn't completely ignore the shit it pulls in canon (not a big fan of some of the borderline woobification I've seen but, again, that's pretty unavoidable in fanbases and ultimately people can do whatever they want; have fun guys. Plus it tends to be pretty few and far in-between).

I like it when the Scrybes are all portrayed as straight up villains as well. Woodcarver says that too: the scrybes don't seem to care for human life as a whole (with maybe Grimora as an exception). Maybe an individual person, yes, but not the whole of it, especially if it puts their world in jeopardy. They'd all much rather prefer to keep existing for the most part and only really see Challengers as entertainment. When people lean into that, that's completely fine too!

But villainizing one villain in a group of villains disproportionately just... isn't the way to go about it. I just really don't see the point in doing that when you could just as easily have four different brands of morally-grey people that clash in a variety of different ways and that's so much more interesting to me than giving one/a couple of them the opportunity for "redemption" then just tossing the rest into the super mega hell pit for Also doing fucked up shit. I'd much rather see Four Different breeds of Mega Asshole than one who is actually secretly an angel and the rest are completely irredeemable, y'know? And maybe P03 WAS nice at one point, but given what we see in canon? Not anymore.

TL;DR I don't like it when people excuse the actions of one scrybe then piss on the others when they've done similarly bad shit. P03 is just my example here because I've seen quite a bit of content where people depict it as secretly nice/G0lly-like whereas the others have no redeeming qualities.

Also unrelated to the rest of this ramble but while I'm already getting stung by hornets I may as well add that I don't really like the Uberbots. A lot of people make full-blown AUs where they're all separate entities and vasty different personalities and all and—as fun as that is (genuinely I love reading other people's stuff about them)—it's just really not my thing. They are just P03's cringe ass ocs to me; with maybe the exception being G0lly. Though seeing her as an old self-insert is equally funny.

#Stoat Speak #Re: Inbox #lhassinu #Re: Anon #Obviously everyone is free to disagree with this #I firmly believe that if there *aren't* different interpretations of a character a fanbase will stagnate and die #But this is my take/why I don't like (some of) the more popular takes #Tried to keep this short‚ not sure if I succeeded #But enjoy... whatever this is. Again‚ just my take and I don't expect everyone to agree

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captains-simp · 3 years

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hiii can you please do a 1) Angst with Nat where shes the one saying 'please dont go' because she pushed u away out of fear of either unreciprocated feelings or fear of her feelings for u?? and then there's a happy ending???

"Please don't go."

Warnings: oral, fingering, thigh grinding, hints at overstimulation, rejection, violence and some majorrrr angst

6.8k words

[ masterlist ]

Buy me a coffee ☕

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Natasha Romanoff was the thing of many people's nightmares. Cunning, stealthy, ruthless. Those were just a few of the things that came to mind when describing Natasha in the field. It was what had earned her the Black Widow name, and rightfully so.

But behind that front was someone very different. It took a long time to find that person. It was hard to gain the trust of an assassin, much less the friendship. You had gotten there eventually, what you found was entirely worth every second of the wait.

Natasha had been your closest friend for as long as you could remember. You trusted her above everyone else and knew the feeling was mutual. A lot of things were with you two.

You came to the same conclusions in missions, spare of the moment and planned. You knew the best ways to comfort one another. You could even read each other like your favourite book when it was impossible for others.

It seemed almost predictable that your feelings for Natasha had been growing for a long time.

She was fiercely protective of the ones she loved. The relationships she developed were ones she held close to her heart and would do anything for. She never said it because she didn't have to.

While not being one for comforting words, Natasha would appear at your side in an instant if she thought you had been hurt in a mission or even training. Everything from checking in on you genuinely from time to time to let you rant about whatever was going on in your head to memorising your order from every kind of take out place made you feel cared for more than she could ever understand.

Maybe that was why you had fallen inlove with her.

"You are single handedly the best partner I have ever had." Natasha sighed as she laid back on her bed with her eyes trained on you. Oh how you wished she meant that in a different context.

"Likewise." You grinned as you poured some more wine into your glass and took a tentative sip.

"You usually work on a team." Natasha pointed out. "You haven't had your fair share of God awful partners yet."

"I can still recognise a good partner." You reminded and glanced down at the glass resting on your crossed legs.

Saying Natasha was good was the understatement of the year. No matter what she seemed to think the redhead was the reason for your success on the mission. All you had done was follow her instructions and reenact everything you had trained.

"Still, that was one of the best missions I've ever been on."

"You make it sound like you enjoyed it." You teased.

"I love my job." Natasha smirked as she took her glass from the bedside table and swirled the liquid around.

"I bet you do, must be easy when you're one of the best." You complimented more easily with the help of the alcohol.

"I like a challenge every now and then." She said as she sat up and tucked her legs under her. She downed the contents of her glass in a second and went to pour some more. Your eyes widened slightly but you accepted when she held the bottle out for you and poured a little more than you would have, finishing the bottle.

"You can challenge yourself in safer ways you know." Even if Natasha was one of the most feared agents on the planet she was still human. You worried about her a lot and tried to voice your opinions on mission files to ensure she did things the safest ways. She was always more set on doing things the most efficient way.

"Like what?" She enquired.

"I don't know, get a hobby." You laughed, hardly joking. A hobby was something everyone on the team needed, there was hardly ever the time.

"A hobby." Nat repeated, playing around with the thought as she said it. "I don't think I have time for that." You hummed understandably. "Do you want one?" She asked as she watched you.

"I barely have time for socialising." You scoffed and sipped on the alcohol.

"You live with us." The redhead pointed out, clearly missing your point.

"For work. When was the last time we had a movie night?" You asked. Natasha thought back to try and pinpoint a date but you kept going. "All of the parties are basically part of the job. Our schedules are all off so we rarely eat dinner together. We never really hang out anymore." You reflected with a pang of sadness.

"We're hanging out now." Natasha pointed out.

"We are." You couldn't help the smile that crept onto your face.

"So let's make the most of it." She said as she reached under her bed to retrieve another bottle. You barely questioned why it was there.

She poured more of the drink into each of your glasses and you clinched them together. You took a sip of yours and Natasha watched you as she raised the glass to her lips then paused for a second.

Her eyes trailed to your lips as you licked them to wipe away the traces of the drink. Your cheeks heated up under her far from subtle gaze and a lazy smirk played across Natasha's lips in her signature way.

It wasn't uncommon for Nat to flirt and tease you, she did it with everyone after all, but that night it seemed like a genuine interest, you just didn't want to fool yourself into thinking that.

You stretched your legs out infront of you simply to do something with yourself as Natasha continued to watch you mirror her position. You were startled when you felt on of her hands grip your calf and pull you up the bed towards her.

She silently took your glass from your hands and placed her glass down on the table with yours.

"What are you doing?" You asked with a smile as you tried to ignore your rapidly beating heart from having her hand on your calf and having the strength to pull you with the one hand just a second ago.

"Making the most of our time together." Natasha said simply as her hand dropped back down to your leg. Her fingers lightly ghosted up your calf again as a small smirk continued to stay on her lips.

You gulped, your mouth suddenly feeling very dry as you watched Natasha's slender fingers wander in a seemingly innocent way.

As if your dumbfounded and blank expression wasn't enough for her, Natasha suddenly sat up more and slowly lifted her leg over yours as she gave you some of the most intense eye contact you had ever experienced and straddled your lap.

You searched her face for anything and all you got was a mischievous smirk; nothing past that, no implication as to what was really happening.

"Cat got your tongue?" She teased as she ran her hands down your bare arms making you visibly shiver.

"I..." You whispered, having no idea what to say in response. Natasha lowered her head to the side of your neck and breathed lightly against the exposed skin, curtsey of the loose bun she had done for you.

"Maybe I should try steal it back." Her lips grazed your sensitive skin as she spoke. All sense escaped you when her lips pressed ever so lightly against your neck.

Her hands moved to your waist to hold you as she planted soft kisses along your neck that started to become less light. Her teeth nipped at your skin making you yelp slightly in surprise. Natasha grinned against you as her hands moved round to your stomach and pushed you down flat on your back on the mattress.

Seeing her straddling your stomach above you with an illegally attractive smirk made something undeniable go straight to your core. You clenched your thighs together subconsciously, not realising how telling the gesture was to Natasha.

She slowly leant down and hovered her face inches above yours as her hands trailed up to your own and pinned them above your head. Your breath was shaky and you just knew your friend could tell from your close proximity.

A million things buzzed around your head. Until you caught sight of an especially bright spec of green in Natasha's eyes and found yourself haulting all your questions. That was when you pushed all of your worries and questions to the side to focus on what was infront of you. Or rather who was ontop of you.

You closed your eyes and lifted your head, finally reciprocating in the way you had wanted to a while. Her lips met yours in an instant and felt even softer against your own than you had ever imagined. Your lips moved in perfect sync that you found yourself getting lost in as well as the taste of Natasha that you thought might stay with you forever.

You gasped and parted your lips when she pinched your inner thigh unexpectedly and was quietened when Natasha's tongue met yours. She sucked on it for a brief moment and grinned into you when she felt you moan.

Her lips left yours and started to kiss across your jaw before you could protest then dipped down to your neck. You tilted your head back to give her further access as you held onto her back and tried to steady your breathing.

While one hand held your waist the other stroked along your bare thigh under your dress. You closed your eyes as you struggled to competly focus on any one of the movements. You especially failed when Nat placed one of her muscular thighs between yours, forcing them apart and pressing down on a sensitive area.

You gasped as you felt her apply pressure to your aching clit with her thigh and bucked your hips against her. She chuckled lowly into your ear and held down your thigh and waist with strength that only feuled your growing arousal.

"Tasha." You moaned when the redhead bit down on your neck. Simultaneously, her hand wandered further up your thigh to explore the wanton part between your legs. She sighed deeply into your neck when her fingers brushed against wet spot on your panties.

You whined lowly when she withdrew her fingers only to flip you onto your front and straddle your back. Her slim fingers held the zip on the back of your dress dress swiftly pulled it down along with the rest of your dress.

Her hands ran along your bare back and she unfastened your bra with ease, throwing it somewhere neither of you cared about. She brought her hands back to you and caressed the exposed skin on your sides and leant down flat against you as her hands cupped your breasts. She kissed your shoulder blades as she started to pinch your strained buds. As much as you enjoyed the way she handled you, you needed attention lower down and was becoming impatient, resorting to rocking yourself against the bed in search of something.

"You're a needy thing, aren't you?" She husked, noticing your actions in an instant.

You whimpered into the bed and was suddenly moved onto your back again and stared up at the redheaded beauty who was taking in the sight of your bare breasts.

"You've got me all worked up too, baby." She said as she pulled her own dress down and flung it across the room. Unlike you, she wasn't wearing a bra under her dress giving you the sight of her perfect set. Your own eyes lowered and your breath hitched at the sight of her bare pussy. For a moment you questioned if she had it all planned, but she was straddling your face before you could think about it anymore.

She certainly wasn't lying when she said she was worked up, she was soaked.

With a burst of confidence, you grabbed the back of her thighs and lowered herself onto your tongue that swiped through her folds. You hummed at the initial taste that enveloped your senses and sucked momentarily on her throbbing clit.

"Fuck." Natasha moaned as she pulled on some loose strands of your hair. You pushed your tongue into her awaiting cunt as far as you could go and retracted it to repeat the motion, all while your best friend grinded down on your face.

"Such a good mouth." She praised as you focused your tongue on her soaking channel.

You brought one of your hands up and rubbed Natasha's clit with your thumb as your tongue started to increase it's pace. The redhead's inner walls started to clamp down on your muscle and you took this with a new vigor.

It didn't take long for her thighs to tighten around your head and for Natasha to ride out her orgasm in desperation as you eagerly lapped up all of her cum until she got off you.

"Suck." She instructed only slightly breathlessly as she held her fingers infront of your mouth. You opened in an instant and licked up the length of her fingers before taking them in your mouth as you kept your eyes trained on Natasha.

"Good girl." She praised with a smirk when she withdrew her fingers. She straddled one of your thighs as her fingers danced down to where you needed them the most.

Her fingers slipped inside your pussy with ease. They slowly edged further until they curled against your sweet spot that made your head drop back against the bed. Natasha repeated the come here motion everytime her fingers returned but her pace remained slow and teasing.

You whined in protest but was shushed by the redhead when she pressed herself into your thigh. You gasped as you felt her slick along your thigh and the small rotations of her hips to grind herself against you.

As the pace of her hips increased so did her fingers that were returning to you at twice the pace. You moaned together as everytime Natasha's fingers hit your special spot she angled herself to brush her clit up against your muscle.

The Russian started to dig herself deeper against you and her movements became much more frantic. Her fingers became rougher and faster, never failing to make your head spin when she angled them perfectly.

"Fuck, Nat!" You moaned as your bucked your hips up against her hand.

Her movements became less coordinated as she chased her release and consequently managed to extend her fingers deeper within you making your walls clamp down harshly.

"You feel so good against my pussy." Nat moaned until she came undone on your thigh soon followed by you.

She spread her arousal across your thigh as she rode out her orgasm and kept her fingers deep inside you making you squirm under her.

Her eyes were still glazed over when she looked back down at you and saw you unsuccessfully trying to move away. An evil glint appeared in her eyes as a smirk played on her lips and she leaned down to hover over you again.

"Oh, malysh, we are no where near done."

You woke up to a stream of sunlight flowing into the bedroom and onto the bed. You instinctively went to shield your eyes and turn over but when you did you noticed the body laying peacefully next to you.

You let your eyes adjust and brain start to kick in until you saw the mess of red hair on the pillow next to you. You smiled widely when the memories of the night before began to come back to you.

You were both laying naked in bed with the duvet barely covering you. Natasha had her back to you so you reached out and gently stroked a finger across her shoulder blades. Her shoulders tensed slightly as she gradually woke up and you were reminded of how much you pushed your bodies to the limit. You were feeling kind of sore too.

"Good morning." You greetee with a tired continuous smile and scooched over closer to her only for her to sit up without looking at you.

"Morning." She replied stiffly. You frowned a little in confusion and glanced over at her alarm clock to see how late it is and go to get up too. You had a team meeting that morning that you definetly couldn't miss.

You didn't really know what to say to her when you were finding your clothes. She didn't say anything either but the silence didn't feel right. Not awkward, just not right.

You kept glancing over at her but she never faced you when she was quickly getting changed into clean clothes.

You looked over at the clock again nervously. Half an hour until the meeting. Need to have a shower, clean clothes, breakfast? No, no time. Talk to Natasha?

You really had no clue what to say to the redhead you had spent the night in and it definelty didn't help that your brain hadn't fully kicked in yet.

"So I'll...see you later then?" Smooth, y/n.

"Yeah." Nat said back as she searched for something in her drawers. You nodded and awkwardly pointed to the door and practically ran towards it. The moment you were on the other side of the door you smacked yourself on forehead and started to think about what to say to your best friend.

Throughout the whole of the team meeting Natasha didn't look at you once. Even in the most important meetings she would shoot you a smile every so often or kick you lightly if she knew you weren't paying attention. But she never even acknowledged you in that one.

Granted, the mission brief was one of the most important ones the team had ever had while you had been there. It wasn't for a couple of weeks because an operation like that one required a lot of planning, preparing and paperwork to fill out before it had even started.

It was the single biggest Hydra base there was. It was the heart of all Hydra operations and that meant there was a lot to do. All Hydra agents needed to be captured or killed, all data and information they had needed to be taken and the place needed to be destroyed.

The meeting dragged on for a long time and eventually you were all told to leave and continue as normal until the mission. You planned to walk out with Natasha but she had disappeared before you got the chance.

It was like that for the rest of the day. You never saw your friend and everytime you asked someone where she was she was never where they said. It felt like you were going on a wild goose chase for her between training and eating.

Eventually though, you finally found her in the kitchen late in the evening making herself a peanut butter and jelly sandwich. She saw you approaching and tensed up without you noticing as you nervously approached, practising what had decided to say to her over in your head.

"Hey." You smiled, eyes trailing to the snack she had prepared as you remembered the time you lectured her on doing it wrong and corrected her. She had insisted you couldn't make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich wrong, but always did it your way after that.

"Hi." She said as she cut the sandwich in half and went to make a swift leave.

"I've been looking for you all day." You half laughed as you moved to stand infront of her.

"I've been busy." She replied and went to move around you.

"Yeah." You laughed nervously again as you followed her.

You had never really been one to shoot your shot or make the first move. It was awkward and uncomfortable even if you ended up lucky. You had never wanted to risk screwing everything up.

You could manage the bottled up feelings most of the time. You always chose that over some form of confrontation. Those were just small, passing crushes. Natasha Romanoff was far from that. And given everything that had happened the night before, you were sure you had a chance - more than a chance.

"So last night was great. More than great actually." You corrected as you managed to keep up with her fast strides.

"I'n glad you enjoyed it." She said simply.

"Did...did you?"

"Yes."

"Cool, so um I was thinking- well I was wondering if you would want to go out sometime." You started as you fiddled with your fingers. "I know you're busy so it doesn't have to be right away- or at all of course! Totally up to you, we could just get a drink or a meal." You rambled, going completly off script. You could feel your heart beating rapidly in your chest as you caught sight of Natasha's room. She stayed silent for a while and you started to suspect you should have kept your mouth shut.

"Look, y/n." Oh God. "Last night wasn't...we were drunk." She started.

"No we weren't." You instantly said and winced at your frantic reply. "I mean we were tipsy at the very most." You corrected and hoped it overruled your desperate comment prior.

"Right, but it wasn't anything serious." Oh fuck. "We were just messing around and celebrating." She said slowly as she reached her door and grabbed the handle, clearly wanting to leave the awkward convosation.

"Oh...yeah of course. I knew that." You lied. "I just thought...yeah never mind- sorry." You rambled again and scratched the back of your neck.

"It's alright." She said looking at her door longingly. "See you tomorrow, y/n." She finally said.

"Yeah, goodnight, Nat." You said back and heard the door shut as soon as you turned around.

Fuck!

Natasha was a generally very mature person. That meant she could put aside personal differences for her job and move past disagreements and resolve tension for the sake of the friendships she developed and treasured. It seemed that didn't apply to you.

You understood that the redhead would want space for a few days. Time was the best thing you could give to allow yourself to pick up the pieces of your heart to reassemble eventually and for Natasha move past what you said.

A week past and Natasha still avoided you like the plague.

That drastic change was one you had never prepared yourself to adjust to. You had been so confident that Natasha felt the same way, it was the one time you didn't plan for rejection. That made it even harder. One moment you and Natasha were practically joint at the hip and the next you were rarely in the same room.

Everytime she went into a room and saw you there she made some excuse about forgetting something and didn't return. If it was you who arrived in a room she was already in she would mutter something about being busy and having things to do.

That meant Nat started doing things like training in the evenings or early night just to avoid you. It was a miracle if she ate a meal with the others too. Her whole schedule changed drastically.

The others noticed pretty quickly. All of it. Natasha's strange routine was just as clear as her separation from you. No one really wanted to say anything, thinking that any issues you and Natasha had could be solved by yourselves. But with the mission fast approaching and there being no signs of things returning to normal, Steve decided to talk to you.

You knew it was Steve at your door by the softness of his knock. Everyone on the team could determine who was outside their door by their knock, it didn't seem possible but it was your equivalent of knowing which family member was coming up the stairs.

"Come in, Steve." You called as you flicked through Netflix. It was late in the evening and you were trying to unwind before bed but you were still haunted by the memories of screwing up your friendship with Natasha.

"You alright?" He asked as he closed the door and joined you on the bed that sunk a little under his weight.

"Never better." You said sarcastically before smiling a little at him, you knew he meant well.

"What's going on with you and Nat?" He asked. You paused you mindless scrolling through the TV as you felt the pain in your chest return.

"I messed it up, Steve. I messed it all up." You admitted as you started to shake.

"Hey." He comforted as he saw tears form in your eyes. He put his arms around you and let you lean into him and rest you head on his shoulder.

"I don't know how to fix it." You babbled.

"Fix what?"

"Us. I think she hates me."

"Nat could never hate you." He assured making you cry a little harder.

"She won't go near me." You argued

"What happened?" He asked again patiently.

"She knows. She knows I like her." Steve chuckled softly and continued to hold you.

"Y/n we all know. It doesn't take a spy to work it out." You sniffed with a smile and wiped the tears away as you leant away from him to look at the blonde.

"I asked her out." You said.

"That was a brave thing to do." He defended despite clearly knowing how it turned out for you. You decided to leave out the reason you worked up the balls to do it.

"I don't think she thinks so." Steve sighed as he looked at the TV in consideration.

"Maybe, but she will eventually."

"How long will that be?"

"It's hard to say with Nat, but eventually. You could try talk to her again?" He suggested.

"Have you been missing how she avoids me like I'm her worst nightmare." You deadpanned.

"You let her know you care about her a lot, you're not far off." You thought for a moment about how right Steve was. Nat never did like intimacy, but she never had a problem with it if it was you. "And she may be a spy by we have a security room." He pointed out and you smiled again.

"Okay." You agreed. "Tomorrow." You decided, knowing there was a lot higher chance of you actually going through with it if you had already told Steve you would.

"Okay." He smiled back and stood up from the bed and went to leave.

"Have you talked to her?" You suddenly asked.

"Seems like she's avoiding everyone."

You surprised even yourself when you found yourself in the security room the next day in the late evening. It didn't take you long to flick through all the cameras and spot Natasha training with the holograms.

You made your way down to her quickly, trying to figure out at least the outline of what you could say to her. Nothing really came to mind when you tried to piece it together.

When you arrived she was focused on throwing an onslaught of punches at a punching bag that honestly looked like it was on the verge of being torn in half. It made you strongly consider backing out when you saw her like that. You just hoped that state of mind wouldn't come across in your convosation.

"Hey." You croaked making the redhead spin around with her guard still up. "Sorry! I didn't mean to scare you." You assured as you took a tentative step towards her.

"You didn't scare me." She defied, annoyance present in her voice.

"I guess if you can be pranked by Clint that many times and not be scared nothing will scare you." You joked in a futile attempt to lighten the mood. It didn't work.

The redhead stayed silent as she adjusted the straps on her gloves. You thought she would pack up her things and leave but she went back to the punching bag and blanked you.

"Are you gonna ignore me forever?" You sighed. She paused her punches for a second before turning to look at you for the first time in over a week.

"I'm not ignoring you."

"We haven't talked in a while." You said, choosing not to argue over the fact that yes she definetly had been ignoring you.

"I've been busy." Her expression was stoic as she looked at you and it made you uncomfortable.

"I'm sorry for making things weird. But we can move past it. I can so you definitely should. Just because you don't want to date me doesn't mean you get to treat me like this, it's not fair on me and its not fair on the team." You breathed deeply when you finished and averted your eyes as you grew more uncomfortable from the confrontation.

"That's just the thing, y/n." Natasha said as she started to take her gloves off. "You're not going to move past it. I know you, and I know you're not going to be over it in a week." You frowned at her blunt response and took a few more steps towards her.

"Get over yourself, Nat." You sighed in frustration. "It's not like I declared that I was inlove with you. And don't forget that you came onto me that night."

"Exactly, y/n. It was one fucking night. It didn't mean anything but you decided to make a big deal out of it." You struggled to push aside the ache that came from her words and the bitter way she delivered them.

"You're never intimate with anyone. So yes when you fucked me and let me fuck you I thought there might be something more to it. It's not a crime to want something more."

Nat's jaw clenched at your words. You had brought in something personal about her and she was inevitably about to put up her walls in the most hurtful way she could. You knew that, but it didn't help you prepare.

"Why can't you accept that you were just a good fuck?" She spat as she glared at you. "Definitely one that I regret." You gulped as you took in the harsh reality of her words.

"Regret?" You whispered.

"Yes, y/n. I regret it. It was a mistake, every fucking bit of it." A mistake?

You didn't say anything in response to that. You were sure that even if you could think of something it would just come out as a squeak. Nat continued to glare at you in a way you couldn't hold. You glanced down at the floor, then the walls, then the punching pad and nodded quickly. You turned around and wandered aimlessly out the room as tears fell silently down your cheeks.

Needless to say things didn't get any better after that encounter. The only difference was that you were mutually avoiding each other. It hurt. A lot. You never thought you would avoid Natasha like you were. You never thought she would break your heart either.

The day of the mission didn't change anything. You and Natasha were sat as far away from each other as possible.

Only the anxiety over the mission was able to overpower the tension in the plane.

Steve had gone over the brief once more in full detail on the plane and you replayed all the information in your head until you landed. Once the quinjet had engaged its cloaking tech it landed in an open area in the surrounding forest.

You all left the quinjet in a concentrated silence as you surveyed your surroundings. It didn't take long to find the first patrolling agents in the forest that were swiftly taken out as to not alert anyone else.

The whole team was scattered across the forest from four planes in a circular layout that advanced towards the Hydra base. Even some of the best S.H.I.E.L.D agents had been brought in to assist. Steve was the first to infiltrate the base and in the least subtle way. You could hear the glass smashing and loud grunts in your coms that made you wish, not for the first time, that you could adjust the volume on those things.

You knew your route. You had it memorized clearly in your head and you also knew that some of it overlapped with Natasha's. You spotted her in your peripheral as you turned a corner to shoot at two charging agents. You leant back against the wall to reload and glanced to your left to see Natasha advancing. Stay focused. You reminded yourself.

You took a quick glance behind the corner again before looking back at Natasha who had her gun raised at you with a flightly fearing expression. Your eyes widened and you went to shout at her to stop messing around but she had already fired the gun. You heard a loud grunt and a body collapse to the floor tight behind you. You swivelled around to see a Hydra agent laying in a pool of his own blood with a handgun next to him.

"Thanks." You breathed out and started around the corner. Natasha had to take another left to the supposed data room where she could collect as much as much as could. You had to keep going but felt the sudden urge to ensure that she was safe. You looked over your shoulder as she opened the door and fired two shots before swiftly entering the room with her gun still raised.

You listened out for any more shots and heard none. She's fine. She knows what she's doing. You assured yourself as you went on.

Half an hour later the building had been cleared of all Hydra agents. Many had been captured and were had many hours of interrogation ahead of them while others hadn't been so lucky. It always weighed on you for a while when you killed as many people as you did on that mission. It was hard but it was necessary. It was the job.

The price of freedom is high. You reminded yourself. The price of freedom is high. The price of freedom is h- "Agent Romanoff is down."

"What?!" You spun around to face the building to see the room Natasha was in. It was in the center of the left side because of course you remembered exactly where she was meant to be.

You instinctively started sprinting back to the building when there was a sudden bright orange and yellow light followed by a deafening boom from the exact room Natasha was meant to be in. The explosion was quick but you got a chance to get an estimate of the scale of it and if Natasha was still in there...oh God.

"Has anyone got eyes on Romanoff?!" You demanded as you stared up at the building, finding yourself rooted to the spot.

"I got her." Steve coughed painfully. "I need a medic." He announced as he ran through the building and out the nearest exit with Natasha unconscious in his arms.

Everything else faded into the background when you saw her. The building still needed to be destroyed but you couldn't care less about the mission.

You stayed at Steve's side as he carried the readhead to the plane and laid her down gently on the bench. A medic was already there waiting and was checking Nat's vitals in an instant.

You dropped down to your knees next to her and watched her face for any signs of consciousness. When you couldn't find any you gently took ahold of her hand and laced your fingers together. You took a great deal of comfort in how warm they were and how warm you were determined for them to remain. You would kill Nat if she died on you.

Yes, she had hurt you. But you were pretty sure you were inlove with her.

You didn't let go of Natasha's hand for a long time. You held onto it tightly throughout the entirety of the flight home. You kept your fingers laced together when she was being taken to the medical wing. You held her hand for a while when they had finally settled her into a bed. She looked so peaceful in that state, you hoped it felt like that for her. She was still so beautiful too, even when she had dirt and smoke all over her before you had cleaned it all off.

You only let go when Steve practically dragged you out of the room to get some proper sleep in your bed.

You had been assured by multiple people that Natasha would be fine.

She had already been unconcious when Steve found her and was able to get her out the room before the bomb went off. It still had an impact and threw them both against a wall, but they were okay. She was okay.

You visited the redhead often but never stayed for long. As much as you wanted to, you knew she wouldn't want you there when she woke up. She had made it clear before that you had lost what you had with her, you were sure the mission hadn't changed that.

One day when you approached her room you peered around the door and saw that she was already sat up and looking around. She spotted you at the door instantly.

"Sorry." You apologised and went make a swift leave but stopped in your tracks when she spoke.

"Please don't go." She called out. You slowly turned around to face her and saw a pleading look across her face that you had never seen in her before.

You hesitated for a moment until you timidly made your way to the chair next to her bed. She watched you do so silently and anxiously, like she expected you to run out any second. You honestly thought about it, thinking another lecture was coming.

"You've been out a few days." You told her without meeting her eyes. "I was worried." You mentally scolded yourself for saying it as soon as you did, thinking that wasn't what she wanted to hear.

"I'm sorry." She surprised you by saying.

"It's not your fault, you didn't throw the bomb at yourself." You smiled nervously.

"Not about that." Nat said quietly. "About everything else. I treated you so badly." The regret couldn't have been more clear in her voice. "I was just scared- and that's not an excuse! It's just the truth." She explained nervously. You listened intently as you stared at her duvet.

"I lied when I said it was a mistake. I lied when I said I regretted it. I lied when I said it didn't mean anything. It meant everything to me, y/n." She explained wholeheartedly as tears started to form in her eyes.

For a moment you couldn't quite comprehend what you're seeing or hearing. Natasha was letting down her walls competly. She was being vulnerable to you.

"I care about you so much. More than I've ever let myself care about anyone. I pushed it aside and tried to ignore it for the longest time but that night I caved and I...I don't know I wasn't thinking about anything other than how much I wanted to show you I cared for you. And when I thought I finally figured out a way to do it I couldn't face it after.

"You never did anything wrong, y/n. It was all me. I couldn't face my feelings but I can't stand not being with you. Is there..." She gulped as her hands trembled notably. "Is there any possibility of a second chance?" She whispered almost fearfully. You finally looked up at her and saw the tears running down her cheeks as she gazed at you like you were the only thing of any importance in the world.

You took her shaking hand in both of yours to steady it and yourself as you spoke. "No more running off?" You asked.

"No more running off." She confirmed.

"No more lying to me?"

"No more lying."

"No more being a pussy." You half joked.

"Definelty no more being a pussy." She laughed weakly.

"Okay then. Natasha, would you like to go on a date with me?" You asked with a smile you couldn't hold back.

"It would be my pleasure, y/n." You grinned and leaned forward to plant a soft kiss on her lips as you kept ahold of her hands. She smiled against you and when you moved back you saw the glint of happiness in her eyes.

Sure, you had done things in the completly wrong order. And yes, the journey to get there had been far from easy. But you swore that day that you would make sure everything after it was done perfectly.

It was a few weeks later on the night you shared your first 'I love you' that she confessed she had sworn the same thing. And it worked.

#natasha romanoff imagines #natasha romanoff imagine #natasha romanoff x reader #natasha romanoff smut #natasha romanoff #black widow imagine #black widow #natasha romanoff fluff #natasha romanoff angst

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lpsgirl109 · 3 years

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I don't think we talk about how horrible Evan and Kitty were to Kurt in s3 enough. The ENTIRE TOWN is against mutants and won't hesitate to commit literal hate crimes towards them, meanwhile Kitty's all butthurt that Kurt won't hang out with her at school and Evan flat out shames Kurt for having his image-inducer.

I would understand Kitty being upset that Kurt didn't want to be around them if they LITERALLY DIDN'T LIVE TOGETHER. JUST DO SHIT AT HOME. It's not even like he's contributing to the bullying to try and fit in or something. The only negative thing he says about the mutants is that he "used to be friends with them," and that was because he was put on the spot by people who honestly looked hostile. Not to mention, it's the first day at school since they got exposed, and Kitty's already getting pissed at Kurt for genuinely trying to hide his identity. Cause you know, hanging out with the mutants would be super suspicious. If she cared that much, she could've talked about it with him at home and sorted things out. But instead, she just sees him not hanging out with her, hears him say he's not friends with them completely out of context, and assumes he's being a bad friend.

Evan essentially shames Kurt for being able to hide himself. It seemed like he was just jealous that Kurt was safe and he wasn't, be even so, you can tell much this hurt him. The fact that his home had suddenly become a hostile environment, and not even his closest friends had his back, simply because he wasn't exposed. To me, Evan was so fucking selfish in this scene. He basically gets mad because Kurt chose not to suffer with everyone else.

I also find it even more selfish that Kitty and Evan get pissed at Kurt for not outing himself when THE VERY FIRST DAY they got to school after being exposed, Scott was attacked for being a mutant. So we've established that the kids at school won't hesitate to be physically violent towards mutants, but Kurt wanting to hide is still a problem? It's also kinda implied that Bitchface Kelly isn't doing anything about these attacks because he hates mutants just as much as everyone else, so Kurt basically has no protection. If he tries to fight back, he'd probably get expelled. He's fucked. Not to mention how much worse it would be for him since his mutation is physical. That's not to invalidate everyone else's experiences, since they all still have it bad, but could you imagine how many people would try to hurt, or even KILL Kurt, for looking the way he does? The amount of bullying he'd receive would be so fucking absurd. It's also entirely possible that Kelly would just expel him on the spot for thinking he's a demon or something, but there'sno guarantee that would've happened. My point is, if Kurt were to be exposed to Bayville High, he would be attacked and ridiculed left and right, and he shouldn't be subjected to that just because Kitty and Evan are sad.

The whole ordeal reminds of me of real life situations where gay people are pressured to out themselves, or just forcefully outed. I don't know if the writers intentionally queer coded Kurt, but he's queer coded to me so fuck off /hj. Kurt is being pressured to come out in a hostile environment because his friends are upset that he isn't getting the same horrible treatment as them, which is so fucked up. If they genuinely cared about him, they would've wanted him to stay hidden for his own safety. This type of shit happens in real life, and it puts people's lives in danger. Kurt would have definitely been in danger if he was outed. And I know there was that one episode where he got outed to a cruise ship and they were just kinda mean to him, but those were adults who probably knew better than attack literal children. The students are already chill with attacking Scott the second they find out he's a mutant, who's to say they wouldn't start shit with Kurt every chance they got?

Also, this may just be me, but the amount of times people try to fuck with Kurt's image-inducer pisses me off. Kitty practically grabs it after they save the assembly from the Brotherhood, telling him to turn it off (which he rightfully gets pissed at her for). Evan straight up turns it off to shame him. Granted, this happened at the Institute where no one could see it except other mutants, but it's still a fucked up thing for him to do. Amanda is also guilty of this, albeit in a less fucked up way than the others. She just says she wants her parents to see Kurt's true form and turns the thing off. But my problem with this is that she does this IN PUBLIC, where someone could've seen Kurt or tried to hurt him. And I dont think Amanda did this maliciously. She's definitely the least problematic one in this situation. She only wants Kurt to be proud of himself for who he is, and only brought up him outing himself once or twice. And once he tells her he's uncomfortable outing himself, she drops the subject. But she's still very ignorant to the weight of the situation. Messing with Kurt's image-inducer in public could've put him in danger; they're lucky that no one was around to see them. Nobody should be putting their hands on the image-inducer in general. It's Kurt's and Kurt's alone. The only time he's ever let someone else touch it is when he gave it Charles because he broke it. Other than that, unless he gives someone explicit permission to use it, nobody should be touching it.

I know this plot point was kinda forgotten immediately, but it still irks me. Mainly because they never give it a proper resolution. Kitty and Evan are never held accountable for their behavior. Kurt just moves on and continues being friend with them despite how horrible they were to him. And I still like Kitty and Evan, but I'll never be able to forget that they shamed Kurt for not wanting to out himself. If there had been a moment of them realizing what they did was wrong and apologizing to Kurt, I dont think I would have that much of an issue with this, but they never apologize. Nobody mentions, "Hey, maybe dont say that?" Hell, not even Kurt does anything about it. He just lets them bully him for protecting himself. Kurt genuinely deserved so much better in s3. He was scared of what could happen if he came out, and Kitty and Evan just made it a whole lot worse.

#should I have gone off on such a tangent?#probably not #oh well I hope Kitty and Evan step on legos #x men #x men evolution #nightcrawler #kurt wagner #kitty pryde #shadowcat #evan daniels #spyke

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zekhromss · 4 years

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i think it’s interesting how we as a Society treat masochism very differently than say, sadism, despite them being nearly the same thing. also this isnt about kinky shit this is about physically doing harm to yourself/others.

and in part, i know it’s because masochism can manifest in any way, youre not always capable of seeing someone being particularly masochistic. but i think we should, because it’s not a mindset thats productive for oneself or...anyone.

when we see someone doing any kind of harm to themselves, the immediate response is never “you need to stop”, even if it’s of equal or greater intensity than the harm someone would perform on someone else in the pursuit of sadism. we think it’s different because this person would know their own limits, would know when enough is enough. and since theyre doing it to themselves, is it our place to tell them to stop?

but since it’s a subconscious response, is the person in question aware of what theyre doing? obviously if you saw someone physically cutting themselves, physically causing mutilation like that, youd tell them to stop, or encourage them to do so. but that’s an action that has direct repercussions; the person in question can see what theyve done and in many cases, regret their decision.

but what about less extreme masochism? what about the little things, like intentionally cutting off circulation because they enjoy the feeling of “sleep limbs”? what about drinking too much caffeine because you enjoy the feeling of your heart racing and the sound of blood in your ears? what about intentionally depriving yourself of sleep, what about intentionally depriving oneself of nourishment (not in excess)?

these things, as theyre not directly causing harm, arent things we ever take seriously. drinking excessive caffeine is seen as harmless fun (we all need caffeine, dont we?), everyone does sleepless nights, everyone has some kind of issue where we skip meals. so is it masochism, or is it simply being human? are all humans predisposed to self-torture? why? is it the rush of adrenaline the body gives us when it’s in danger, is it an abuse of your bodys natural response to pain? are masochists therefore more likely to abuse substances because theyve become dependent on the rush of euphoria that follows temporary inconvenience? this could be true, as we see people who willingly put themselves into extremely stressful situations and workplaces where denying yourself the pleasures of life in pursuit of monetary gain typically fall onto harder drugs, like cocaine or heroin (speaking specifically on office workers, who are encouraged to outdo everyone else for personal gain).

has society encouraged the rise of casual masochism, which then in turn puts more people at risk? have we created a world where there’s no other stimulus, and most people arent willing to become sadistic to get out their need for some kind of pain response? is that why we view these tiny acts of self-harm as admirable or necessary?

human beings are empathetic and kind beings; we have a sense of community and morality which tells us Hurting Others is bad. if you intentionally cause harm to others, youre rightfully shamed from society (excluding CEOs, etc. because theyve long since revoked the title of human imo, also going into propaganda, etc is just gonna bring me off-topic).

but what if we viewed the Self as a separate being? you are unaware of your subconscious mind, you dont know what it wants, you arent aware of what it’s doing. most “borderline” masochistic tendencies (even so far as nail-biting until it causes pain), arent conscious actions. you dont choose to do them; your brain sends an encrypted signal and you just...do it. so then, is masochism a primitive response? do we have control over what we do to ourselves? is sadism, by extension, the same thing? do they choose to want to harm others? why is masochism seen as admirable and level-headed, and sadism seen as a conscious decision? is it just because we know hurting others is morally wrong, and we dont consider ourselves to be counted as an Other to be hurting?

the real answer, obviously, is our impression of empathy. the existence of consent. you shouldnt burn someone else, thats a whole other person who doesnt deserve to be put through what youve decided you want to do to them. you can burn yourself (though you shouldnt), because you have decided that thats...what you want to do.

the reality of the situation is that, comparing masochism to sadism is impossible. sure, they may be rooted in the mind’s desire for pain, but they are fundamentally different, because one is choosing for others and one is choosing for yourself. but they should be considered one and the same in spite of this.

people who are, for lack of a better term, “normal” (rather, neurotypical), would typically never do either. they dont understand why youd want to hurt somebody else, and they dont understand why youd want to hurt yourself. sadistic and masochistic tendencies are likely caused by some form of neurodivergence that separates you from your own subconscious mind. you dont get a rush from normal activities, you need to take out your frustration and feelings of “lack of personhood” to remind yourself youre human, or someone else is human (for masochism and sadism, respectively).

this isnt to say if youre neurodivergent, it’s alright to do either one (because it isnt). it’s also not to say if you are neurodivergent, youre absolutely going to be inclined to take one of the two paths (or both!). i suffer from sado-masochistic tendencies, but the only reason i possess either one is...because i either:

1) decide “i” have done something that requires punishment (violence on “other”)

2) decide “i” have a requirement to be punished (violence on “self”),

and this is determined by “who i am” at the time. it should be noted that since i am still “the same person”, both of these mental decisions could be considered masochistic in nature, regardless of if i feel like i’m doing harm to myself in some cases.

fact of the matter is, we are all prone to masochism. we do not view it as violence (before it gets excessive and physically mutilating in nature), we view it as discipline. we view it as self-help (wrongfully). we dont view it as real harm, because we view it as “they are in control. they know what theyre doing to themselves”.

but i believe we should all consider ourselves as Others. if you wouldnt deprive another human of nourishment, if you wouldnt deprive someone of sleep, if you wouldnt file down someones nails until they bled, if you wouldnt junk someone up on caffeine to see what it does to them, what any of it does to them, you should keep an eye open for you doing it to yourself. because you are still a human, you are still a person, you can have a higher tolerance for pain and still not feel it necessary to provoke that. you have to be aware of what youre truly craving, and replace the pain response with that.

masochism is merely sadism. you are sadistic with yourself. you torture yourself. you knowingly cause yourself stress and pain, and why? because you do not feel as though it has repercussions. but then youre no different from an “actual” sadist who tortures others because they believe it has no repercussions. you have to view yourself as a person, as someone capable of being severely harmed. you have to look on your actions and think “would this traumatize someone”, because then youre traumatizing yourself. nobody even has to do anything; youre triggering a panic response and causing psychological harm. now you cant trust yourself because youd do something so violent and vile. but youve done it to yourself, so who’s to blame? would your brain really make you do something that would cause so much harm? if your brain does it, then is it really that bad if someone else were to do it to you? and then rinse and repeat until youre potentially looking for someone else to do it to you, so you can test your own hypothesis.

in conclusion, masochism and sadism are not held to the same terms on account of the context. but that isnt to say they arent two sides of the same coin; they cannot be rightfully compared, but that does not make them inherently mutually exclusive. by taking advantage of potential neurodivergence, and acknowledging what a “lack of Self” can do to your brain to make you a target of your own latent abusive tendencies, you can take steps to eliminate that response to panic (inclusive of rage, depression, apathy, dissociation, etc.) and instead focus on what you would do if you had to face yourself as a separate person. instead of keeping yourself awake for nights on end because “i havent finished this, im too stressed, i deserve to be harmed because i didnt complete this task”, consider the fact that doing that to yourself will have no differing results than if you tortured a colleague and friend with sleeplessness; it will not work, it will only make them less inclined and capable of performing whatever task they (you) didnt initially complete to provoke that reaction. be kind to yourself.

#personal #long post #hi i just hosted an entire ted talk just really sat down and banged this out huh #amazing #also this is almost...entirely anecdotal this isnt like a professional study and there are no resources except me myself and i #but i had fun questioning myself

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draw-you-coward · 5 years

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Hi! How is everyone? I wanted to talk about the Scions. Specifically, the Archons. Major spoilers for Shadowbringers!

I think what really helped me come to these conclusions was seeing all of them actively work together. specifically, seeing urianger in a context where he’s an actual character and not a deus ex machina! (side note: he’s honestly amazing in this expansion and i. love him??) I hope they keep this dynamic whenever it’s realistically possible!

So mostly, I want to talk about how the scions individually react to possibly groundbreaking events that have the possibility of changing their worldview. im speaking mostly about emet-selch’s “hydaelyn and zodiark were the first beings akin to primals” revelation. or more specifically, their separate reactions to that revelation. i think it’s very telling on how they each individually digest information. we, the players, may arrive to our own conclusions at our own pace, but we have to remember that for these characters, this is their world. their world view, being shattered. they all, to some degree, react negatively. they just show it differently, even if it’s not all that obvious.

i think that shadowbringers overall did a very good job of establishing their individual character dynamics, or more importantly, the idea that their major strength is also their major weakness.

let’s start with thancred. right away, his major flaw is apparent. in fact, a lot of people have gotten (rightfully) mad at him for it, although i think when he gets over himself and turns it around, it’s a lot more subtle. but i digress. with thancred, what he does with information he doesnt like is look at it, says “okay, i dont like that,” shoves it to the back of his mind to not think about, and tries to focus on whatever he wants to focus on in the immediate present. of course, it manages to bleed through regardless, and that’s where his doubts come from. and because he refuses to confront them head-on to deal with them, he has a very difficult time letting them go.

the actual first time when this comes to mind for me isn’t with ryne, it’s with the word of the mother in 3.X. (yes, it’s there with lahabrea too, but executed in a less clean manner, and people have already talked about that to death.) what he first sees is minfilia, the girl he’s attempted to look after primarily because of a sense of guilt, the girl who means the world to him, and whom he feels like, we know now, that he has never been sufficient enough for. (that theme of him feeling like he isn’t good enough is repeated multiple times with him, and it makes me wonder if it’s because of his manner of thinking.) but minfilia’s different now, in a strange and new and maybe not altogether comfortable way, and she’s drifting away from him now, and he can’t catch up to her to make up for all his regrets. he realizes this, realizes what’s going on, very, very quickly. in fact, i’d say that out of all of them, thancred is the one who is the quickest on the uptake. but he shoves his logical side away, and reacts emotionally, because he doesn’t want to acknowledge what he knows is true. in shadowbringers he does the same thing; he acknowledges minfilia’s words, and it is clear that he dwells on them despite himself, but he wants to react emotionally, in the moment. he is a very, despite his apparent distance, emotional person.

when he finally begins to get over himself accept the situation, it is in the tone of someone who is moving on from the loss of a loved one. he talks about how they met, how she grew up, what she liked. this is because he’s finally coming to terms with what he knew this entire time: that the real minfilia, his minfilia, died in that tunnel. the version of her that he is clinging onto in heavensward, in shadowbringers, is not her and all she used to be. it is not the “word of the mother” or the “oracle of light” or whatever she has turned into. it is but “minfilia,” but a memory, and he’s finally let it go enough to see it as such.

woo! okay. so moving on to how this works out for him in the best. honestly i dont think people acknowledge this enough, but he displays it time and time again? thancred is the one that is best equipped to deal with the present. to confront problems head-on without worrying about what may or may not happen, and without getting lost in the possibility of failure. he is by far the scion with the best ability to keep a level head. this is most apparent, to me, in aumarot. everyone one else is confused and lowkey freaking out or what have you, and thancred is the only one who has decided that no, what they really need at the moment is not to panic. what they need is calm, and confidence. and he is that. and you know what? he was right. and i think for me at least, he’s the biggest reason why I calmed down some at that point in the story.

next: y’shtola! I have less to say about the other scions, mostly because i wasn’t following their character arcs as closely or at all, but I do love them still!

y’shtola is the one who most visibly is struggling to handle emet-selch’s revelation. (you can talk to her now, at the time of the quest, or check your quest journal for confirmation of this). where thancred realizes things in a far more round-about manner--that is to say, figures them out, shoves them to the back of his mind, and tries not to think about them--she takes them by the horns and tries to confront them head-on. this gives her, in a way, tunnel vision. she is the loudest about her opinion, and the most direct. when emet-selch makes them by association question hydaelyn, she is the one who speaks up to defend her and their belief system. she is stubborn. it takes her a while to eat through something enough to 100% accept it.

but because of this, her conviction and belief in anything is strong. when she truly believes in something, she believes in it the most. she is the strength when the storm is finally over and she’s had time to build herself up. she isn’t afraid to force other characters to see the flaws in the way they are viewing things, or confront them when she knows she is in the right. yes, she can be harsh sometimes, but she is sorely needed. someone has to be sure of something here! in this way, she too is comforting. when thancred is calm, you know something is bad. when yshtola is calm, you know that whatever you have to worry about is surmountable.

urianger! my poor often-shafted elf giraffe man. he’s the one i had the most trouble puzzling out, so i may be completely wrong! but i’ll try my best :>

urianger is the one who has had this constant theme of showing up at the last moment to present something that he has thoroughly and completely thought about so he can be entirely certain of it. urianger’s way of dealing with things is to listen, listen some more, maybe go digging, and finally, only come to a conclusion when he knows every bit of information he can. he’s willing to work with ascians, he’s willing to go double-dipping in terms of sides, he’s willing to risk his friends’ trust. he is willing to take a long, long time to achieve a goal and know things only in full, and he has the patience to do so. he has the patience to deal with thancred in shadowbringers, to listen to what the exarch tells him to do, to bear with the whole plan, even as he sees things objectively keep getting worse. he’s not easy to rile up, he sees things as a whole instead of in parts... all of this really makes him a good teacher! it makes him a kind man. but.

he waits a little too long. what happens when you finally kill vauthry and emet-selch ruins everything? urianger’s carefully-laid plans go awry. suddenly, everything has gone wrong and he has no backup, because he never thought to make one. he has such conviction that his passivity is for the best that he stands by, barely intervenes, and decides to let things run their course even when warning signs are flashing in front of him. when things go wrong he fumbles, and doesn’t know what to do, because he isn’t used to that happening. up until shb, he’s taught himself that the path of inaction and support is the best one to take, and i am glad that he is finally being confronted with the realities of that. even with thancred and ryne; he can clearly see that their initial dynamic isn’t healthy, but he does absolutely nothing active about it. in the end, it is his very opposite force--entropy, chance--that fixes things with them. it’s interesting he became an astrologian, i think, because divination is something so abstract and vague that it allows him to stay in his comfort zone of not doing much to change things. fate is a fickle mistress, yes, but he leans a little too heavily on how things should be that he fails to see that everything in the present is in flux; that it is, in fact, dependent on the uncertain.

okay, that’s it! i think the three of them complement each other nicely with their respective strengths and weaknesses, and that’s why i hope they’ll keep that dynamic in the future! of course, if you disagree or want to correct me, please feel free; this is purely my own opinion, and i am very much putting myself in a position to be (respectfully) disagreed with by posting this. on the other hand, if you want to elaborate on something or add something, please also feel free! i’d love to hear your thoughts.

nae

#ffxiv #urianger augurelt #thancred waters #y'shtola rhul #urianger #thancred #y'shtola #shadowbringers spoilers #hhhhhhhh #discussion

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rustdream · 5 years

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@joeyydrawss

This is based off of one line about the dark clone gang being villains in cragtworld.

First, as a writing warm up, a shart drabble)

"But, why DO we have have names like that?" The pale Cyclops spoke up, as she tightened the ropes around Sack thing. Her question was met with an awkward silence, before Dark!Rain wandered. "What do you mean? What's wrong with 'fe names, Ima?" Her cracked eye met the her colleague's leaking black ones, a small feeling of confusion placed in her mind. After all, she hadn't anticipated having to explain her question. She had only snapped out of her thoughts as she tried to walk towards the brown cloaked girl, before noticing that she had tied her hands to the ropes. How embarrassing. The two others in the room didn't seem to judge though, as their hostage was rightfully afraid. Why their leader suggested this was beyond her. "Well, I mean, it seems weird to call ourselves. Well, now that I say it it sounds like something to tell Joey about." She finally got free, though her hands hurt from tugging on the ropes so hard. Before DRain could speak up, DIma continued, "C-cause, it's understandable that YOU would calk yourself Rain, cause you ARE her!" DRain nodded in agreement, a smug smirk worming its way into her face. "And me, Ima is technically my name, all that I remember from my legal name. But what about Joey? He utterly HATES his other self, so it seems weird."

"Well...ah, ya got me here. If ya want, we can go ask him."

"What if he gets angry?"

"Ill take tha fall for it. Even then it's just a question. How bad can that be?"

And so the two left the room, as Sack thing noticed that the ropes have become looser from the tugging. Now all they had to do was plan an escape.

Real story under here/

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

|another random one: context, what if ADITLOF was affect by the dark clone crew|

The gang could only stare in confusion as Rain and Ima struggled to get out of the guards grasp, while Newton was talking to strange man with some fish on his head. Bill almost chuckled at hearing Wheatley comment on this. "Well, this trip could have gone better." "I don't see how it can. I'd love to hear Rain use her 'freindly charm' on this." He was shot a mean glare, which was meet with an eye roll. He decided to look away from Rain desperately explaining herself, as he overheard Mewton's conversation with the man.

"I can't believe you've associated with criminals now, first the titans now this-."

"I-its not like that. Papa! I-"

"Well the way you've avoided us I doubt you was bringing them in."

"Because they haven't done anything wrong, they don't deserve prison!"

"While I can't say the same about the rest of them, THOSE two," He shot a horrid glare directly at Ima, how got as close to Rain as she could, who was speaking, while tearing something off her shirt," are wanted criminals. Thousands of crimes are on their hands, Newton. How can you defend them?"

"Rain and Ima, they would never do this! They're my friends, Papa, a-at least let them prove that they didn't do anythin-"

"THE ONE EYED ONE HAS A WEAPON!" The two guards bellowed, pulling everyone's attention to Ima, who had a pin in her hand. "T-this isn't a weapon, just a pin that was picking my skin! Also," she put it in her pocket, a look of what Bill could only place as offended unamesment. "why are we being accused of something that we didn't even do, if this is our first time coming here?" Rain added on, "Not to mention...what DID we do?" A long pause, as Newton gestures, a brief look of triumph in his eyes. Until he saw the stern, angered look in his father's face. The older sackperson slowly walked towards the girl, the guards letting her go. "Oh, I'm sorry, but you've been here before." Rain backed away, Ima still standing there, silent.

Compared to her, he was really tall. To tell you the truth, Ima sort of regretted saying that now. "Ima, is it? Let's see, you've destroyed many, many cities and towns in Craftworld, terrorized Bunkum, KIDNAPPED and endangered a CREATIR CURATOR, and that's only before you've meet you ACCOMPLICE Rain. Who is the reason Manglewood is stuck in a large area of tar, endangered MILLIONS in the act- MAY I GO ON!?" His tone reached a new level that Newton hadn't though of before. In fact, he even had to be held back by the younger man to prevent him from pummeling the girl into the ground. The two girls were taken aback- the whole group was. Rain, a villain? She's a hero, the kindest person ever! Even if it annoyed Bill to no end. And Ima... actually, Both Bill and Ima seemed to consider the notion that she might have done those things before. It was nigh improbable, but still.

"but, we didn't do those things." Was all Rain could muster, still shocked at the man sudden change in behavior. Newton was pushed away as the two guards were attempted to pull him back as Newton had. "DO YOU REALLY THINK," The two friends now where close together, unsure of why this was happening, they haven't done anything wrong, "I'M STUPID ENOUGH TO ACTUALLY BELIEVE ANY WORD YOU SA-" Suddenly, an explosion could be heard, as a piece of debris came between the man and the two girls, causing him to stop, and the group to panic. Almost stumbling to the ground, Bill managed to get a glance at the three people through the smoke. The first thing he could notice, where how two of them had an almost likeness to Rain and Ima, the only differences were Tue Rain clones black eyes and brown jacket, and the how the air around the other clone seemed off. Dark, suffocating cold. As it would sometimes become when Ima entered. Though her skin was a sickly pale, and her screen was cracked. Before he could even look at the third one, they closed in, the other Rain holding the odd man by the throat with a black liquid, and another one, a person he had never seen before, pinning him against a wall, with weapons threatening another group of people.

That only left the third one, who seems to have closed off all entrances and exits, before staying the the middle of the building, keeping an eye on every panicked person. The man struggled, as his son screamed. "Papa no-" thrown into a wall by the other Ima. "Listen up you fucking shits," the boy, who held his weapons tight, his red eyes scanning the room, started, "This. Is a holdup. And from now on, you're staying here until those hero twats come to rescue you. And if you try to leave, my freinds over there will kill you." He gestured to the two, who had tied most of the people in tar, with the other Ima looking over the rest, before Rain spoke up. "Wait a minute, bad language aside, WHI ARE YOU?" The boy threw a knife at Rain, cutting her cheek in the process, and cracking the glass floor it landing in. Storm seems to become uncomfortable in her reflection, as the cracks ran a little. The boy smirked. "I guess an introduction is only complimentary. I'm Joey. Or Dark Joey of you prefer, I dont really care." Joey smirked as he pointed at the other two. "The one with the tar is Dark Rain, and the other is Ima."

Rain immediately answered. "Hey wait a minute, you. Is your name Rain N Thirteen?" The clone frowned. "Yeah, why ya askin'?"

"Cause that's MY name."

"Wot?" The clone looked rain up and down, her frown only growing. "Huh, I didn't know I had a fan, a little tip lady. I ditched tha blue coat long ago. Got real bloody."

"No, you don't understand. My legal name 's Rain. So what your saying isn't true."

"O ho! Look Joey, A've got meself a faker, just like tha blue spiked dork."

"If anything your the faker."

"No, you."

Joey scoffed at his comrades stupid quarrel with this weirdo. Though, something about her reflection, the black soulless stare in them. It intrigued him. As he stomped on the yellow hair dweeb's chest to stop him from moving, he looked at Ima. "And what about You? Next ill be hearing that 'yoir the real Ima!'" The girl stood a few feet from her double, who seemed to be almost crestfallen when their eyes locked. Almost as if she was remembering something. Suddenly, the double started to glitch in and out of reality, as it started to attempt to attack her. At least until a sharp object almost hit her square in the head. "Get your head in the fucking game. Come on, I'm holding these people at gunpoint here. Stop your childish squabbling and tie the rest up!"

After a good hour of fighting and bruises, they actually did it. What mad it harder was that Rain fakers apparent ability in fighting, and that other girl's freakish body manipulation. Seriously, seeing her body contrite under her skin, to grow two more grotesque arms, seeing her muscle tissue stretch and bleed to make weapons,, it was going to give Dark Rain nightmares! And not to mention Ima seemed to get more emotional in the presence of that other Ima, more evident in the way she flung her around while tied up. How she occasional kicked the other just for talking. Though, she couldn't blame her, she tied up her copy's mouth for god sake. As Joey was making his grand hammy speech as always, Rain put a hand on Ima's shoulder as she kicked the pink wearing double. "Ay. You alright there?" The other twitched as she turned to her, almost crying now. "I just want to tear her apart, she's not me, she can't be, he said that there wasn't any other-" Muffled by a hug, Rain's other arm shrugged. "Ay know, but she could be a faker, ah mean, we've got a faker over there." The clones muffled complaints went unheard. "Yeah..yeah! Y-you're right Rain! Your right. A faker..." The glitches girl was patted on the back. "Exactly! Come one, we've got a show to but on."

The two left the room, not noticing the claws breaking through the one eyed clones restraint. The duo walked out onto a platform, Joey making his evil hammy speech to his own faker, and the gang of Craftworld's hero's. "...And we will be victorious. For we are the Dark Heart Gang!"

"Wait a minute, that's a crappy name tho-"

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godblessgilgamesh · 6 years

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mayb ill get over myself one of these days

so i realize most people don’t use this platform like this but uh i havent kept a consistent diary in a long time and all of my old blogs are dead so uh feel free to keep scrolling this is more for me than anyone else.

CW: Abuse

something that i struggle with a lot is the idea that people change over time. sometimes i get a window into someones past and i get upset because they did not act in a way that i know them to act, or maybe they said some things that i disagree with, that i know they have different opinions on now. something thats important fr me to realize is that people can change a lot and the lens through which i view peoples pasts is one dimensional and operates with no context. it’s important to remember that the person you know and care about is the person that you know them as now, not who they were a year ago or before you knew them. you could know someone for years and still barely know 5% of their experiences. sometimes these experiences they dont see as relevant, or maybe they dont want to share them. and most of the time, that’s ok.

(before i go on, i wanted to say that context, however kind, excuses nothing. if someone i know had done something morally reprehensible, then i would call them on it. that kind of thing is not what im addressing here).

i guess what i’m trying to say is that people change, and that i shouldn’t be upset with the old versions of people for not acting the way i expect. people have lives well before i knew them, and i can’t expect them to act in the context of knowing me before they knew me.

i’m really glad that most of my current friends didn’t really know me in 2015-2016, let alone before that. i think everyone i know now would be really disappointed with who i was. i was a whiny, dependent, and honestly beaten down person who was afraid to express themselves or stand up for themselves. i “didn’t really care” about politics, and did not seek to educate myself on things that matter. i was this way before i entered an emotionally and sexually abusive relationship that lasted for over a year, and as a result of that situation all progress stopped. i was absolutely stagnant for a year because i wasn’t allowed to speak up for myself or learn anything. i wasn’t allowed to say no, i existed for someone elses pleasure and support. I was cut off from my friends at the time, and didnt communicate with other people. my relationships with everyone deteriorated. As a result, i didn’t change, i didn’t move forward for a year and a few months. this put me way behind.

Cutting someone off from their friends is the single most harmful thing someone can do to you and is the best way to control people. It’s your friends who help you see shit the way it is, its your friends who help you get better by calling you on your shit. Always keep these people with you.

then again, its always easy to say that after the fact.

i’m sorry to the people i only knew back then, who only knew me that way. i’m a lot better now, i promise, but that’s not something those people will know. unless people are constantly around you, they won’t change with you and they can’t know who you are right now.

im sorry to the people who knew me soon after i left that relationship and for a long while after, when i was a dumbass with self esteem issues who thought he was hot shit because he played in a terrible band in high school and could mansplain music to people. i was the fucking worst. i still am, but for different reasons.

to the people i know now, hey. I’m doing my best to treat others with respect and I think i’m doing a pretty good job of it right now. if im not doing that please let me know. i’m not gonna apologize to y’all because i’m not sure i need to yet. give me a few months

i guess what i’m trying to say is that people change. if people saw what i was like back then, they’d be rightfully really disappointed that their friend was like this. I’m sure if I saw what y’all were like a year or two ago i might not be really happy about it. I think its important to look back at myself and try to remember that people change, and that no one is who they were back then. if i look at it this way, maybe it’ll help me come to terms with the fact that i cant know everybody at every point in their life. if you know me now, this is the best version of me so far, i think.

maybe i’ll get over myself one of these days.

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kaialone · 7 years

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I’m gonna ramble about Ganon(dorf) for a bit

Proceed if you’re interested (I wrote a lot)

Okay so I don’t even know how to start this, I’ll just go.

(note that I’ll mention the timeline in this, please dont think that I dont know that the timeline could be changed at any moment should nintendo feel ike it, I just like semi-going by currently established canon. Also please note that I got no problem with people who dont feel like following the timeline for any reason, to each their own.)

I kinda really like the fact that Ganondorf is said to be a reincarnation of Demise, because, idk, somehow the idea of powerful demons needing to reincarnate into human form for some reason, and then once they have this form and live that life they start having human feelings and emotions and start struggling with what they want to be and maybe end up becoming good guys, is just somethign I really enjoy.

(If that sounds weirdly specific, Great Demon King Piccolo from Dragonball is one character with that kinda arc that I love.)

And then of course, one of the most interesting things about Ganondorf, imo, is how in the three different timeline branches, you got one incarnation of Ganondorf who turns out very different in each branch.

Something I always like is to just kinda, look at the different “last words” Ganondorf has in each timeline branch, and what they really mean for each of them:

"The wind... it is... blowing."

“I am the Evil King, Ganon...”

“The history of light and shadow will be written in blood!”

(though this gets a bit muddled in the Downfall Timeline, as technically Ganon died in ALttP, but was revived in OoX,´, which I see as his true death for now, but then again we dunno if any Ganons after that where him revived or reborn so *shrug*)

But first we should talk about the guy that “grows up” to be these other three.

I mean, personally I think no matter how you look at it, OoT!Ganondorf did lots of bad stuff, and wasnt a good ruler to the Gerudo (I dont mind different interpretations at all though), but I do think his initial intentions were good like we hear him talk about in WW, but lets not get ahead of ourselves here.

OoT!Ganondorf doesn’t really end up helping the Gerudo once he actually takes over Hyrule (all the Gerudo are still over in the desert, cept for maybe Iron Knuckles) and its heavily implied all the Gerudo were brainwashed to some extent (The carpenters note that the Gerudo seem nicer, post-Twinrova’s defeat), and Nabooru, who was very respected among the Gerudo, was explicitly against Ganondorf, but then brainwashed into submission.

Like even if you think Twinrova did all that without him knowing, not noticing your parents brainwashing your people doesnt exactly make you a good leader.

Adding to that, if A Link to the Past’s backstory is to be believed (and the timeline is not said to split until Link falls in the final battle) then, Ganondorf entered the hiding place of the Triforce alongside fellow thieves of his, and ended up killing them all so he could have the Triforce for himself.

Buuut before you think I’m just gonna talk about how bad OoT!Ganondorf is, like, I still think he genuinely wanted to help his people (at first) and that everything WW!Ganondorf says does represent his true feelings, and that at some point, he just really wanted to do something good.

I think its interesting to think about why that presumably changed for a while, wether you think its the usual getting mad with power, getting to close to the “dark side” or whatever with all the dark magic going on, or being groomed into this role by Twinrova, or all of that, or something else entirely.

I mean, he definitely did some bad stuff before that too, but in the context of Ganondorf being a reincarnation of Demise, I wonder if it could be possible that either seeing Link and/or Zelda or laying eyes on the Triforce ended up having some effect on him, like awakening some part of Demise within him so to speak, contributing to him losing sight of his initial goals and getting more about power in general.

Notably post timeskip Ganondorf seems to use a lot more monsters/dmemons to do his bidding than before, but this could easily just be the difficulty spike for the player.

Idk if this sounds cheap to people somehow, but I remember a popular theory being that the Triforce of Power turned him evil so, its not that different imo.

Of course, in the final battle we see OoT!Ganondorf become Ganon, presumably for the very first time, but honestly? The transformation itself isn’t that important to me, as it just feels like a visual representation of the downfall Ganondorf had undergone already anyway.

And then, when he is defeated, he infamously curses Link, and ZELDA, and THE SAGES, vowing to kill their descendants once he breaks free from the seal and all...

...which leads into who is everyone’s favorite Ganondorf, and rightfully so, WW!Ganondorf.

Before going into the present day of WW, there is its backstory, which is very interesting to me, cause you just gotta think, how do we go from a guy like OoT!Ganon to WW!Ganon?

At some point after OoT but before WW, Ganondorf’s threat became reality, he broke out of the seal and tried taking over Hyrule once more.

But I cant help but wonder how it mustve felt for him. I picture him for years, decades, centuries maybe, sealed away, picturing his revenge, imagining how great it’ll feel to get free and eradicate the descendants of Link and Zelda, and finally making Hyrule his.

But when he was freed, he likely found a Hyrule that was different from how he remembered it. Notably, there would be no hero, nor descendants of his for him to exact revenge upon. And while we know that a princess seems to have had existed at the time, who knows if she was “a Zelda”, if you wanna call them that.

I just imagine it wouldve felt a lot less satisfying that he imagined, heck, probably wouldve felt more like he was robbed if his chance to take revenge.

And who knows what even happened to the Gerudo by that point? I know lack of them in Wind Waker doesnt mean they are extinct, but for all we know they couldve left hyrule altogether? (Like they seem to have done between OoT and TP, and mightve done post OoT in the Downfall timeline, if you dont think they went extinct)

Overall I could see what Ganondorf mightve pictured/wanted to be his most glorious moment, his long awaited return, mightve just ended up feeling kinda empty.

Not that I think he wouldve done a complete 180 already because of that, but I could see it leaving him in a bit of a shock.

Adding to that, now just as he is about to conquer Hyrule for real, the gods decide to destroy it, essentially. Or at least, thats how Ganondorf felt about the situation, given how he speaks of it in the game. Its like the gods are playing with him, everytime Hyrule is just within his graps, they take it from him.

The flood mustve felt especially terrible for him, cause the way he saw it, it mustve been something like the goddesses saying “we’d rather just end hyrule and kill all its people than have you be its ruler”. What a slap in the face, to put it lightly.

After that, getting sealed away again, and all the stuff I mentioned above, probably gave him time and opportunity to reflect upon his life so far, and the future too.

I dont think that in WW, Ganondorf was just “going through the motions”, and just trying to finish what he started because he had no choice at this point. I do think he still genuinely wanted to try and conquer Hyrule, its just that he has had some time to think about it, a bit more about why he wanted it, and about what he did wrong before, and regretting those mistakes.

Like for example, he really doesnt seem like he wants to harm Link and Zelda anymore, if he can help it. He could be hating them, still furious for what happened during OoT, but he doesnt seem to be.

One of these days I wanna talk about all the contrasts and parallels WW seems to draw to Zelda games that came before it, especially OoT, but for this bit I just wanna mention this one thing.

How in OoT you confront Ganondorf, who smugly plays his leitmotif on the organ, the sound of which growing louder the further you approach his chamber. His back pointed at the entrance which he knows the hero will emerge from. Zelda, encase in a crytal, hangs above him like a trophy, like the hero bait she is to him at this point.

And then in WW, his leitmotif plays in his final dungeon, but actually grow more quiet the closer you get to him. That already makes you feel like, while it invokes OoTs atmoosphere, it actually turns it on its head. And then, when you do cofront him, “Zelda” is instead peacefully sleeping in a bed, (presumably Ganondorfs bed?) with him calmly sitting by her side, watching over her. He doesn’t face Link directly as he enters, but isnt completely turned away from his either.

Of course this scene still has some creepy atmosphere to it, especially when he starts reading her mind, but maaaan, the contrast to OoT (and games that came before it) just GETS ME everytime I just think about it.

Ahhh, I could go on and on like, you all know this stuff, you all thought about him in this game so much, didnt you?

I really hope nintendo will choose to give another Ganondorf this kinda depth, and maybe even just play with the idea of Ganondorf taking on a different role than “final boss” in a Zelda title. I would love that.

Now, let’s turn the clock wayyy back to when Ganon fought Link, and talk about the timeline that occurs when Link is actually killed by him.

To me, this is kinda of the “original” timeline, for various reasons, but I don’t wanna distract from our main man here too long.

In this version of the events, Ganon manages to actually aquire the full Triforce in the final battle of OoT, and causes quite a bit of misery before the Sages finally manage to seal him away in this version, too. But because he is so powerful with the Triforce and all that, it ends up costing a lot more lives to finally get to that point.

Now from that point on, this Ganon seems to just kinda rule the Dark World, a twisted “evil” version of Hyrule of his own creation. And of course most notably, either because of this worlds properties, or his general state of being, this Ganon seemingly always stays in beast form from that point on.

Sadly this one doesnt talk too much (though he is very much capable of doing so), so we dont get much of a grasp on his character.

To me, ALttP!Ganon feels like somewhere in the middle when it comes to Ganons. Despite his bestial appearance, he doesnt seem as blind with power and rage as TP!Ganondorf, maybe cause he doesnt call himself a god or something. But he of course is nowhere near WW!Ganondorf in terms of reasons and having reflecting upon his past.

Either way, it is clear that he is not happy with just ruling his very own personal Hyrule, filled with damned people that have become monsters like him, as in ALttP he does attempt to break his seal and go back to the World of Light

This might just be out of greed, but you could also imagine he might simply be unhappy in this demonic world, or even scared? Given how we see that some inhabitants of this land lose their humanity to such an extent that they’re turning into things like trees, maybe even completely losing their sense of self?

One of the more curious things about ALttP!Ganon is his relationship to Agahnim. No one is entirely sure what they are to one another.

In some of the mangas, Agahnim is portrayed as a human who gets possessed or turned by Ganon in some shape or form, and this portrayal is popular from what I’ve seen.

But in the actual game, Agahnim is described as being Ganon’s alter-ego. The term used in the japanese version is “bunshin”, which can mean a lot of things, including alter-ego or even reincarnation, but in the context of the Zelda franchise, there is another part in the series where it is used. In Phantom Hourglass, Oshus is described as being the “bunshin” of the Ocean King. So, if we assume Agahnim works the same way, his consiusness would have to be exactly Ganon’s, right? Of course that doesn’t mean other interpretations can’t exist, I myself am not even sure what to think.

The usage of the word bunshin does imply that to some extent, Agahnim literally was a part, or offshot of Ganon. So froma certain point of view, we could add his character to Ganons, if we wanted to.

Something that intrigues me though is that in the Downfall Timeline, we never see Ganon in human form again. Could this be related to Agahnim? Maybe not exactly literally but symbolIcally?

Did Ganon split the humanity he had left off of himself, because that was the only part of him that could exit the Dark World before the seal was lifted?

If so, did Agahnim dying have any effect on him? Or did whatever Agahnim was in the end just return to him?

So much to think about here, ahh.

Of cours, ALttP!Ganon then gets killed by Link in their battle. Not sealed away, just flat out killed.

Normally this would probably be the end, but of course OoX happened, in which Twinrova tried to revive him, but didnt quite succeed.

Ganon is revived as a seemingly mindless beast, only actualy talking in his final moments, which is the quote from earlier.

In the japanese version, this quote is written entirely in katakana, which can indicate that its pronounced weirdly somehow, in cases like this likely because he had a hard time forming the words at all.

He also refers to himself as a Demon King in japanese, but that term hadn’t caught on in the english versions of the games yet.

Okay so, as I kinda mentioned above, this Ganon’s story gets a bit muddled from this point on.

Sometime after ALttP, but before ALbW, ALbW’s backstory (which is not ALttP) occurs, during which a hero fights a Ganon, who is then sealed away by him, the princess and the sages, but we dont know if this Ganon is the same, just revived again, or an entirely new incarnation.

But you could argue that it hardly matters, cause he barely does anything in the game, essentially acting as a power boost for Yuga...

However, there is a theory that he might do more than that actually.

So, according to this theory, Yuga actually was completely loyal to Hilda, and its only by fusing with Ganon that he starts wanting to betray, due to Ganons influence. The theory is nice in the sense that it makes Yuga more of an opposite of Ganon than he seems if you take the game at face value, and gives Ganon more to do. Depending on your interpretation, Yuga might just be influenced by Ganon, or they literally fuse into a being that is just as much Ganon as it is Yuga.

But of course that is just a minor theory, and you dont have to like it, naturally.

After that we get HF and AoL!Ganon, who is said to be more of a mindless beast as this point, no trace left of the human he used to be.

A rather sad fate.

Again it is unclear if this is the same Ganon, revived yet again, or maybe (anotehr) reincarnation.

But if its the former, you can only assume that, even if you dont think Agahnim dying had any effect on Ganon, just forcing him to ressurect over and over instead of letting him reincarnate properly, must’ve done quite the number on Ganon.

Somehow thinking about this version of Ganon in particular makes me think about the cursed boars in Princess Mononoke, who where lost to their anger. Especially the moment when the Wolf faces the Old Boar, who we have seen slowly lose his self at this point, and she almost pitifully says “Can’t you even speak anymore?” to him.

It almost feels like Downfall Timeline!Ganon is cursed by fate, in a sense. Not really in-universe either, but out of universe too!

History is already written (the first two games are already out) and thus Ganon has to follow the path that is already set for him, become what he will be in the future (what he is in the first two games), a frightening monster that terrorizes this kingdom of Hyrule for the sake of power, with no humanity in him (him having been human wasnt part of his character at the time the first two games where released)

I wonder if the demons failing to get Links blood in 2 will mark the end of this Ganon? (I hope not)

It was kinda nice to see BotW seemingly do somewhat of a modern take on this kinda idea of Ganon, something that has become little more than destruction of Hyrule in pyhsical form. I could see people place BotW as post- AoL for that reason, even.

And well, rolling back time yet again, we go to the last way OoT!Ganondorf turned out, which is TP!Ganondorf...

....who, compared to the others, actually has a bit more of a complicated “set-up” that kickstarts his character.

When Link gets send back in time at the end of OoT, his Tiforce of Courage breaks apart into the pieces we find in WW, presumably because Link was literally removed from that reality as he possessed it?

Then upon his arrival in the new Child Timeline, Link immediately gets the Triforce of Courage of THAT timeline, presumably cause he is in a state of being where he is meant to have a Triforce Piece of Courage?

Well, regardless of what you believe to be the cause, this is what happens, and as a result, the other two Triforce pieces choose Zelda and Ganondorf to bear them and end up residing in them. Thats how the pieces ended up with the three without the Sacred Realm being entered in this version of the events.

Link ends up warning Zelda and the king of the events that will transpire in the future, and thus Ganondorf loses the trust of the king and is unable to set his plan from OoT into motion.

Its a bit vague, but sometime after that Ganondorf starts a direct attack towards Hyrule, but gets captured and put on trial.

And as you know, as he was about to be executed, the Triforce of Power activated and saved him from death.

Now I am not sure if this is true, but I think up until that point, Ganondorf didn’t even know he had it.

But wether he discovered he had it now, or the moment it fist came to him, one thing I am sure of, he mustve felt so great for it. Cause he has no idea that a time travelling Link caused this to happen, right? From his perspective, the power of the gods just came to him like that because he is that great! And then, he cant even die as a result of this? He is literally immortal? Well, he must be the dang chosen one, right?

No wonder he got all god complex in this one!

Something I´m kinda interested in is how this guy spend years, likely centuries, in the Twillight Realm, and if his form in there is any indication, not exactly in physical form either, I mean isnt it implied he HAD to mae use of Zant like that in order to be able to have a physical form like that?

Ultimately TP!Ganondorf just is a lot like OoT!Ganondorf if you think about it, just kinda taken to a more extreme. He is no longer just human, but has transcended humanity much further than OoT!Ganondorf has, and feels superior to everyone because of it.

He is absolute in his own eyes, he is a god, his eventual victory is certain, his battle with the hero just a formality at this point.

And he sticks to that mindset until the very end, even as he is stabbed and fatally wounded by Link. It only makes sense, he couldnt be stopped by this before, why would it stop him now?

Of course the events that follow are rather vague, and people argue about what it means to this day, but I think it ultimately boils down to Ganondorf biting of more than he can chew, overestimating his own power. Or rather, what he thinks is his own power, cause its not even his.

From the moment he was impaled by the sword of the sage, Ganondorf has been a dead man.

He has only been kept alive afterwards through the power of others, the gods, and Zant as well.

This power was not his, and thus it could just leave him just as quick as it came to him.

The imagine of Zant snapping his neck, to me, either just refers to the fact that with Zant dead, who acted as Ganondorf anchor of sorts, Ganondorf himself dies as well, or it refers to the fact that Ganondorf, who saw himself as a god and superior to everything, was ultimately just as much of a mortal and simple being than the very person who worshipped him as a deity the most.

Yes, you could call Zant the very person that made Ganondorf a god in the first place, in more ways than one, so without him, Ganondorf is a god no more. And he dies just like any mortal would.

Ultimately this Ganondorf story feels like a story of hubris.

Simple, but neat.

(Its interesting like, its almost like, TP!Ganondorf was a human who longed to be a god, and WW!Ganondorf was like a god who longed to be human?)

But, do not think it ends here...

We’ve looked at all the people that OoT!Ganondorf grew up to be, but that isn’t all the Ganons there is, the story of Ganon actually continues further down the Child Timeline.

Yes, this brings us to FSA!Ganon, or as I sometimes like to call him, Ganon II.

I understand that most probably never played this game, and I probably won’t blow your minds if I tell you Ganon doesn’t actually do much in this game but, I still like to think about him.

He’s actually a proper reincarnation of TP!Ganondorf, folowing the latter’s death at the end of TP.

From some dialouge in-game we know a little bit about his past. Like his past life, he was a boy born to the Gerudo people, and was named Ganondorf.

Interestingly, in this game, the Gerdudo dont actually say that every 100 years a male child is born, they that every 100 years a “special” child is born, and of course Ganondorf was that special child. They still mention the “only man” part, but it doesnt come up with the “every 100 years” line.

Notably it also doesnt seem that Ganondorf was supposed to be their king, and it doesnt seem like they ever treated him like a king, they only mention he was supposed to be the protector of the Gerudo people and the desert.

This is just speculation, but perhaps, after what happened to the first Ganondorf, the Gerudo people decided it wasnt a good idea to treat the sole male like a king just because.

The Gerudo in the game tell you that the older Ganndorf became, the more twisted and obsessed with power he became, and eventually he started breaking their laws, too.

When he entered the forbidden pyramid, the Gerudo basically considered him banished from their tribe, but also didnt think he would ever survive in there and presumed him to be dead.

The Gerudo in this game really only talk badly about Ganondorf, which probably makes sense if he really just did bad stuff to them, but its a very stark contrast to OoT where the Gerudo seemed to just let Ganondorf get away with everything, kinda.

Something I wonder about if maybe like, Ganondorf wasn’t exactly treated well by the Gerudo, out of fear of him turning out like the old Ganondorf, or if Ganondorf just turned bad all on his own. Or maybe a mixture of both?

What is sorta interesting is the story of how this one came to be Ganon, which is that within the pyramid, he found a certain Trident, which is implied to have caused him to “awake as Ganon”, so to speak, as he picked it up. This is the inscription found with the Trident:

“Seek...you...the world? Seek you...power? Does your...soul...despise peace and...thirst for... more? Does your soul...cry... for...destruction and... conquest? We...grant you...power to ...ruin...the world. The power of...darkness. Evil...spirit of magic trident. You are...the... King of Darkness.“

The trident feels like it has more out of universe meaning than in-universe (though I do headcanon it to be a reincarnated ghirahim somehow, because I can). The trident being a weapon that franchise-wise is heavily associated with Ganon, and notably Ganon only, as Ganondorf is never really seen wielding a literal trident.

This Ganondorf picks up the trident, and with it the legacy of the interpretations of Ganons that came in the games before this one, so to speak.

I´m sorry for this part being so unstructured, but interestingly, Ganondorf is this game is referred to as “ancient demon reborn”, or something like “instrument of evil reborn” in japanese, hinting that even at the time of the game’s release, this Ganon was probably intended to be the reincarnation of a previous evil, likely a previous Ganon, of course.

What I wonder about is how much this Ganon is aware of that, though. When he grew up, becoming more and more twisted, did he know? Did he know he was the reincarnation of a villain that had previously plagued Hyrule? Did he feel his hatred? Did he know whose it was, or did he consider it his own? Or was it simply his own?

And when he picked up the trident, and transformed into a demon beast, did he understand what this meant? What he was? Did he ever obtain any memories of his past self, even?

Something that hints that this /might/ be the case is Shadow Link.

Now Shadow Link is not actually created by the dark mirror from the evil part of Link’s heart as the english localization suggest. Instead its created from the evil part of Ganon’s heart, using the dark mirror. It is said that through the mirror,the hatred and evil of Ganondorf, throughout time, took on the shape of Link. Likely because the hero is a major subject of Ganondorf’s hatred.

The fact that this happened when FSA!Ganon used the mirror, despite himself never having met Link up until that point, hints that he might, at least subconsiously, harbor the memories of his past incarnations?

But really, as usual there is a lot open to interpretation.

I´m just so intrigued, like in this timeline there is a “second Ganon”, a Ganon that came “after”, someone who had to take on this cruel legacy.

And, with that we have now talked about all the Ganon(dorf)s that have existed in the franchise to this day, not counting stuff like BS Zelda and the CDI-Games.

If you stuck around until this point, thank you so much, you’re too kind!

But also thanks to everyone that just skimmed this or looked it over briefly, I hope this wall of text did something for you.

(Sorry for any typos I... type too fast when I get excited about a topic.)

#legend of zelda #ganon #ganondorf

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