#and more complex than the aerys situation

[ilynpilled]

i know people mostly take note of jaime being associated with the warrior & the maiden because of the whole huge gender extravaganza that is going on with j/c/b but i love how he also seems to be strongly connected to the stranger throughout the text. other than all this, he has the death motif (death of the boy, scythe sword chops hand/rebirth, aerys, ilyn the executioner, the bear, stoneheart, cersei, hooded figures in his dreams, the ghosts etc) along with the dance with death thing. when he refers to himself as “a stranger in my own house,” in the next few chapters he gifts oathkeeper to brienne and aids her in working against his family’s interests, the major color symbolism shift starts: crimson/gold vs white, and frees tyrion which leads to the death of his father and the head of his house (he told the corpse. “The blood on his hands as much as… Tyrion’s.” The blood on his hands as much as mine, he meant to say.) and i think we can all guess what else is coming when it concerns jaime embodying the stranger in the future. i like that cersei “all the time was the stranger” to jaime, and he comes to that epiphany and continues diverging from her, and he “has become” it for cersei, but she is not aware of it, like she doesn’t think he means her death. and i am sure it is meant to be loaded that the character who is the primary deconstruction of knighthood/the kingsguard in the series also embodies the stranger (he certainly fulfills the role of executioner & judgement in some form, and i do like these layers when it comes to the medieval narrative of “it is ‘god’ who shall judge tyrants, not anyone else” which can also serve as a tool for class stratification, and avoiding the precedent of sovereignty being challenged. it is touched on in different ways in the text) but i dont have my thoughts together enough about this lol. we do know george is an agnostic:

"I suppose l'm a lapsed Catholic. You would consider me an atheist or agnostic. I find religion and spirituality fascinating. I would like to believe this isn't the end and there's something more, but I can't convince the rational part of me that that makes any sense whatsoever. [...] And as for the gods, l've never been satisfied by any of the answers that are given. If there really is a benevolent loving god, why is the world full of rape and torture? Why do we even have pain?”

his view is verbatim jaime’s argument: “If there are gods, why is the world so full of pain and injustice?” and the whole conversation parallels brienne’s statement: “Jaime Lannister murdered the rightful king […] Where were the gods then? The gods don’t care about men…”

but george is absolutely not a nihilist in any way, so i think much of it is about placing human agency at the center of all this, and it is some kind of discussion when it comes to karmic or divine intervention. he is half a corpse too. a man is a man, not god. and a man is “whatever he chose.” it is man who acts, not gods.

[silantryoo]

BONUS [ LIKEALOOK ] — you owe me

minjeong's dorm, 12:12 am.

WARNINGS ; blood, mild violence, physical violence, god complex, slut shaming, victim blaming, victim complex (3.6k)

minjeong wasn't mediocre.

as soon as she could form thoughts, minjeong knew that she was worth something more.

yangsan was charming, in a sense. it was littered with people who knew each other, who would attend the same recitals, and talk about the same problems. soon enough, minjeong found herself walking by the same couple of faces daily, waving at the same people and thanking the same adults.

it was monotonous, and there was nothing more annoying than boredom.

minjeong had always wished that her parents had worked harder like she did. she wished that they would've put more effort into pleasing her, even if they would bend their backs to get her whatever she desired.

it wasn't so she could get rewarded for her efforts. it was because she deserved it. it was because she had always done everything right, because she was right.

she was kim minjeong. she needed the best in order to continue to be the best.

soon, she had outgrown yangsan.

minjeong had begged her parents to go to high school in seoul, despite living across the country. her brother, kim minseo, decided to stay behind, not wanting to restart the life he had built, to stay with his girlfriend.

at least, that was what minjeong had said to the girls.

she refused to show the truth, the hardships and tears that her parents went through as a young kim minjeong threatened to run away if she didn't get what she wanted. she refused to relive the berating of her younger brother as he tried to convince her that their parents would nearly go bankrupt if she kept asking for something beyond their reach, or how he decided to stay in yangsan to lessen the burden of taking care of funds (and how he dropped out to work a crappy job to help with the situation).

kim minjeong didn't care, because she always got what she deserved.

being in the capital of south korea was her right. being in one of the SKYS, being with the girl was her right.

kim minjeong would never settle for less.

y/n could hear the door rattling, the hinges shaking at every pound of yuri's fist.

her stomach churned, the thought of seeing her now ex-friend nearly making her sick. she had tagged along despite the gnawing in the back of her head, telling her that seeing minjeong was essentially a death sentence.

in her head, y/n assumed that everything would be fine. she assumed that it would hurt less than jimin, less than wonyoung.

she was wrong.

"unnie..." she clenched her eyes tightly, tugging on the back of yuri's sweater. "i changed my mind."

minjeong broke her, in a way.

it lingered like cheap, store-bought alcohol. it was a deep, unsettling feeling like her chest had been weighed down by something and she wasn't sure what. y/n didn't know what to think except why. why had minjeong - someone she loved so deeply - betrayed her like this?

kim minjeong was her best friend, her sister.

(and despite everything, she didn't want yuri to knock minjeong's tooth out.)

"minju-unnie, do something." y/n looked over to the older kim, face void of emotion. "jiwonnie?" she turned to the younger, finding her expression the exact same.

y/n couldn't help but sigh.

she had always wanted someone in her corner, especially growing up as an only child. y/n wanted someone who she loved unconditionally, and who loved her the same. sure, she had amazing parents, but she had always yearned for the connection that everyone seemed to have.

she could live without romantic love, like the winter could live without snow. but it was different when it came to friendship - to family.

everyone had someone they could call their family. wonyoung had hyunseo, her younger half-sister whom the older jang swore she would protect. yuri had minju (and jiwon by default) who, even though they weren't blood-related, had always spent her holidays with the kims. even jimin had aeri, the two more akin to sisters than friends up until recently.

y/n had minjeong. at least she thought she did.

the door creaked open, letting the warm air blow through the small crevice. minjeong popped her head out, glaring at yuri as her eyes adjusted to the corridor light.

y/n missed when minjeong's presence felt like family.

minjeong opened her mouth to speak, but as she glanced over at y/n, everything seemed to stop.

"y/n?"

jo yuri wasn't strong, not physically. but what minjeong lacked in bite, yuri compensated by tenfold.

she rammed the door wide open, using her entire body weight to send minjeong stumbling back, landing on her rear. yuri fell along with her, nearly landing beside her if it weren't for y/n suddenly holding her steady.

"that hurt like hell." yuri whined, ignoring minju rolling her eyes. the kim would have to scold her later.

"you could've just pushed the door open." jiwon scratched her cheek as the older girl rubbed her shoulder.

y/n looked at minjeong, watching as she looked between all of them. the older girl looked frightened, and it broke her heart to know that she was the cause of it.

"i didn't think about that."

she wondered if minjeong felt the same.

"y/n," the kim's eyes met hers. "she hurt me."

y/n could feel the pain bubbling in her chest. it hurt to see minjeong like this, and it hurt even more that she didn't want to help.

kim minjeong was a stranger.

"i'll do it again!" yuri tried to lunge forward, being held back by y/n as minjeong stood up.

the two were equally versed but y/n was afraid that yuri would end up biting a chunk out of minjeong given the circumstances.

y/n looked at her, hoping that her minjeong - the one she would talk to during her lowest points and the one who she ran to whenever anything happened - was still there.

she wasn't.

(or maybe, she never existed.)

"let's just go, unnie." y/n gripped yuri's shoulder lightly. the sinking in her chest was starting to get too overwhelming.

yuri didn't care, at least not right now. not when y/n seemed more torn up over minjeong than wonyoung (and it took minju convincing her for ten minutes straight to not jump the volleyball player).

minju stared at y/n, watching as tears started to form in her eyes. gently, she rested her hand on yuri's other shoulder, motioning to y/n. she could feel yuri relax.

hurting minjeong would hurt y/n more (for now. but if yuri ever got a chance...)

she turned to y/n, smiling softly. wordlessly, yuri nodded, and y/n finally felt the connection she had so desperately longed for.

y/n knew she would survive.

the girls turned to leave, and minjeong could see that her last chance was nearly out of her grasp. she couldn't let y/n go, not now, not ever.

minjeong whined like a toddler whose toy got taken away. "you're gonna leave me here?"

y/n stopped, looking down as guilt and anger began to wrack her body. jiwon looked at the older girl, furrowing her eyebrows in confusion.

"unnie?"

"i didn't want to do it!" minjeong tried to reason, grasping at anything that would make y/n stay. "you have to believe me!"

yuri inhaled, fighting all the thoughts and urges to rip a clump of hair out of minjeong's (unfortunately) unscathed scalp. she'd find another time to jump the girl, hopefully soon.

y/n turned around, her cheeks wet from the stream of tears cascading down her face. "it didn't look like that."

"y/n." minju faced the girl, shaking her head. "don't talk to her."

"shut up, minju." minjeong snarled. this was her chance. she just needed y/n to listen. "i did it out of love. i knew if you saw how jimin would just fuck any girl then-"

y/n scoffed.

"what is it?" losing someone never got easier, but losing family seemed to hurt the worst. "did she make you fuck her? or did you do it to 'show' me?"

minjeong looked down, void of guilt as she tried to find any excuse to justify her actions. she knew she was in the right, especially since she did everything for y/n, for love.

love conquers all, even logic.

"tell me the truth." y/n could feel her voice starting to break. she could feel herself getting weighed down by the confusion. she could feel herself getting ripped to shreds. "tell me why."

minjeong couldn't help but love the way y/n looked in the dark. she loved how her cheeks flushed, and the way her voice cracked as she begged for her.

she wanted - needed - y/n, every teardrop, and every whine.

"i knew it." y/n ignored jiwon's attempts to get her out of the room, letting her emotions take the better of her. "i trusted you, minjeong. i trusted you with my life. i would've never done this to you... ever."

y/n prayed it was a lie. this couldn't be her minjeong, her best friend who she trusted fully with her life. she prayed that it was some sick joke, like all of this was a prank and a television crew would come out, shoving a camera in her face.

but it was too real. the pain felt too real.

"i don't understand." y/n let a sob slip out, and minjeong couldn't help but note the pain that was caused by her, for her. "i thought you were my best frien-"

y/n loved her. she had to.

"i love you." minjeong stood up, walking closer to y/n. "i loved you since the day i met you, since the day i knew that you were mine."

y/n looked at minjeong.

she could smell the cup noodles that lay empty on minjeong's desk. she could hear the soft hum of her laptop, churning the heat out of its system. she could feel the warm air basking around her, like a soft blanket.

but all y/n could feel was shock.

"...what?"

minjeong needed y/n. she needed to be y/n's everything - her pain, her sorrows, her love, her lust. she needed the pretty girl that you find on screen to be hers and only hers.

y/n was her reward, her trophy for being an outstanding person and and even better lover.

it was written in stone.

"i know you love me back, y/n." minjeong had never been more hopeful in her life. she knew that everything at this moment was because of everything she did right. "this hurts you because you love me back, right? because you and i are meant to be. i'm yours and you're mine."

y/n could feel her ears ringing.

"what the fuck..." yuri covered her mouth, looking at the kims, whose eyes were wide open.

"i've always treated you right. i've always done everything right." she did all the research, all the tips and tricks. she did it all for y/n. "i never said no to you, i let you be happy, i let you do whatever you want. i did everything right, right?"

y/n couldn't breathe.

she felt disgusted, almost violated. she had trusted minjeong with her life, and the entire time, the older girl had ulterior motives.

(and deep down, y/n knew that she was the reason why she had ended up with jimin in the first place.)

minjeong kept her gaze locked on the younger girl. she could feel her heart beating out of her chest.

y/n wanted to see her, despite having her heart broken by her. she chose to be near minjeong. it meant something. it had to.

"i'm sorry."

minjeong furrowed her eyebrows.

"i don't love you, minjeong."

minjeong had never been denied anything. she had gotten into all the SKYS, gotten all the scholarships, and gotten all the love from her parents.

it wasn't supposed to be like this.

"what?"

"i've never seen you that way, minjeong." minjeong shook her head furiously, refusing to believe the words coming out of y/n's mouth. "you were always just my friend, maybe a sister at most."

this wasn't right. this wasn't how it was supposed to play out.

"but i did everything you wanted!" she had sacrificed her time, her money. "i even let you fuck whoever you want!"

"she was never yours, minjeong." minju glared at minjeong.

"shut the hell up!" minjeong gritted her teeth. minju had no right to take away what was hers. "you're acting like your girlfriend doesn't fuck bitches on the side."

yuri's eyes widened, trailing over to minju. to her left, jiwon was expressionless.

"what?" chaewon had always hidden her phone until recently. even at the party, it looked like the older girl was actively avoiding someone. "chaewon wouldn't."

she trusted chaewon. minjeong had to be lying.

"ask jimin." minju could feel the air being sucked out of her lungs. "she has videos of everything chaewon does for her."

minju hated crying.

she hated getting her makeup ruined. she hated the way streaks would carve away parts of her foundation, and how her eyes would sting as her mascara mixed with her tears. she hated how weak and vulnerable she felt, like her mask had been stripped away and she was back to being that ten year old holding her sister as they both sobbed at the thought of their family being ripped apart.

minju never cried.

she never cried at her graduation, or her eighteenth birthday. she didn't cry when her grandma died. she didn't even cry when chaewon and her broke up.

but she cried when she found out her parents divorced.

"unnie?"

jiwon hadn't seen her sister cry in years.

"you fucking bitch!" y/n quickly grabbed yuri's waist, pulling her back as she tried to jump at minjeong. making one of them cry was pushing it, but two was too much.

minju couldn't stop the tears anymore. no matter how hard she tried to hold it back, all she could think of was chaewon, of how much she loved her and how much it hurt.

minju wiped her tears quickly, but nothing helped as she stared at her younger sister.

"ji" she was supposed to be stronger for her. "i'm sorry."

jiwon was at her limit.

she could forgive minjeong for leaving her at the party. in fact, she already did. jiwon forgave her, despite the fear she had when yujin and gaeul had left her and an extremely drunk rei alone. she could forgive minjeong for how she never checked up on her after, and how she pretended that jiwon didn't exist outside of the group.

she couldn't forgive this.

"it's not my fault chaewon's a whore." minjeong loved the rush of seeing someone so hurt. "minju's always liked girls she could never ge-"

jiwon was always the stronger kim.

a loud thud echoed through the room, and jiwon could feel her knuckle make contact with minjeong's cheekbone. the force of all the pent up anger (which honestly felt good to release) sent minjeong stumbling back, craddling her cheek.

yuri looked at the younger kim in shock.

"i... i didn't mean to!" jiwon panicked, looking at minjeong's now bleeding face. "i got angry. she, she left me by myself at that party. she made y/n-unnie upset. she's always looked down on me and yuri-unnie. unnie, she made you cry. i swear it was just by accident, i just-"

minju smiled, patting her younger sister's shoulder.

"jiwon. i love you, yeah?" jiwon took a deep breath, smiling awkwardly. "just calm down, okay?"

"okay." she nodded, looking at her now bruised hand. "are you gonna tell mom?"

"no, ji." minju shook her head. "i won't."

jiwon couldn't help but sigh in relief. "okay."

"y/n," minjeong whined again. the pain in her cheek was starting to spread across her face, and the cut was starting to bleed. "she hit me. aren't you gonna help me?"

"you can do it yourself." y/n sighed, not wanting to stay any longer.

she didn't know why she felt more worried about jiwon's hand than the cut on minjeong's cheek. all y/n knew was that she was tired of everything.

she just needed a break.

"that's not fair." minjeong didn't understand why y/n couldn't see it. "it's what i deserve after i treated you right."

"i didn't need you to treat me right." y/n didn't know how else to explain it. "i needed you to treat me like a friend."

"but i love you." minjeong loved the way y/n needed her. "i don't wanna be just your friend. it's not fair."

the world had always been filled with only yes's for minjeong, sakura being a fluke.

she didn't understand why it happened again.

"i don't owe you anything, minjeong."

minjeong frowned. "but you owe wonyoung something?"

maybe jimin was right. maybe the only person standing in the way of her and y/n was wonyoung. it was the girl who had everything, despite being nothing.

minjeong hated jang wonyoung.

"wonyoung has nothing to do with this." y/n said truthfully.

"you love her, don't you?" minjeong always lost to the bad guys. "even after she treated you like shit."

"wonyoung never treated me like shit." y/n countered. the argued at times, like couples always do, but wonyoung had always treated her like royalty. "we disagreed at times but-"

"but i never disagreed with you!" minjeong could feel the cut on her cheek move as she scrunched her face. "i said everything you wanted to hear!"

y/n wanted a lot of things.

"but it was never what i needed."

"you don't know what you need." minjeong reasoned, her cheek now swelling against her hand. "i'm what you need."

"jiwon," yuri looked at the younger kim, fresh cuts on her knuckle. "punch her again."

minju rolled her eyes, shaking her head as jiwon looked at her for permission. "don't."

"let's just go." y/n sighed. the longer they stayed, the more likely jiwon and yuri were gonna get arrested. "jiwon's gonna need to ice her hand."

jiwon looked at her hand and shrugged.

"it's okay! i feel great!" the younger kim smiled, flexing her hand. "i feel like i can jump from the roof right now, like superman."

"i would pay money to see that."

minju sighed. she was happy that yena didn't come, otherwise she was sure to egg yuri on and jiwon would most likely jump off the second-floor balcony.

"oh." a slurred voice entered the room as the smell of weed wafted from behind the girls. "hi?"

they turned around, coming face to face with someone unfamiliar.

her hair was bleached blonde, her body draped in expensive clothing. all of them could tell from her eyes that she was going to have no recollection of their meeting.

y/n had never seen someone so high out of their mind.

"sorry," minju bowed slightly. "we were just leaving."

they looked at each other, walking out quietly before the girl grabbed y/n's arm gently.

"wait." she squinted, y/n taking note of how bloodshot the girl's eyes were. "you're the girlfriend."

y/n looked around. "me and jimin aren't together anymore."

"jimin?" the girl didn't know jimin had a girlfriend. "i was talking about vicky?"

y/n didn't know of a vicky on campus. of course, she didn't know the majority of the people but she assumed that she would've at least heard of her.

sensing her confusion, the girl continued to speak.

"victory?" she let go of y/n's arm as the taller girl looked at her friends who all shrugged. "like vicky jang?"

"wonyoung?" y/n tilted her head.

wonyoung had never been given a title before, and a sense of pride seemed to burst through her chest and into her veins. they had talked about it frequently during first year, and how wonyoung wished she had a title like yoo 'the ace' jimin or hirai 'the machine' momo.

it had a nice ring to it. wonyoung 'vicky (victory)' jang.

the girl tapped her cheek, a blush spreading across her face. "you're saying she's single?"

y/n's face darkened at the thought of girls liking wonyoung. her stomach churned as she realized that wonyoung probably liked said girls back.

she shook her head. now wasn't the time to get jealous over someone that wasn't hers.

"it was nice to finally meet you." y/n said stiffly, frowning as she pushed the girls out. she ignored yuri's teasing stares and tried her best to disregard minjeong pleading her to stay.

the room fell quiet as y/n closed the door behind her.

"unnie? were those your friends?" slowly, the girl turned to minjeong. she gasped, nearly choking as her eyes adjusted to the sight of her face.

"what the hell happened to you?"

minjeong rolled her eyes, searching for something to stop the bleeding.

"do you need ice or something?" the girl asked.

"can you fuck off, yizhuo?"

"whatever." minjeong was in one of her moods again (and not the fun ones).

she placed herself in bed as minjeong rummaged for vaseline. if minjeong was gonna act snarky, then yizhuo could find a different way to entertain herself.

she was glad jimin stayed up so late.

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[melrosing]

no offense to the earlier anon but dany burning jaime is so bad and so boring for both of them it’s like if a poem rhymed but in a very unsophisticated way

literally 'bog rhymes with dog' level analysis. like I just don't know how you read a series like asoiaf, where it's said again and again that punitive violence does not rectify a wrong, and think 'this seems like an appropriate and rewarding conclusion'. the books spell out GRRM's stance on this over and over and over. Jaime is horrified when he hears what Gregor does to Hoat, the man who hacked off his hand. Tyrion is horrified by Joffrey's death, knowing the kid could've ordered his head with his next breath. Theon's suffering makes up some of the most horrific passages in the series.

and we could really go on for days here, but ASOIAF is so much more concerned with growth and rehabilitation for the characters who have done wrong, and where characters aren't the sort to pursue that, instead it asks if we think their suffering pays for their wrongs, and where do we draw the line etc. and where our heroes do kill the villains, it is rarely if ever presented as a moment of true catharsis: Tyrion's low-key traumatised after killing Tywin, Dany seems to have some turmoil over Viserys, too. but if you want a narrative where death and suffering is treated as catharsis - go straight to GOT. that's where you get scenes like that of Arya and the Frey pies, or Sansa having Ramsay eaten alive. dead-eyed GASP moments that leave you feeling hollow inside <3

also, who the hell wants this for Dany lol, she'd want Aerys dead perhaps more than Jaime did if she knew the truth. and, per the emptiness of what GOT did with the Stark sisters above, I think if anything it would just undermine who Dany is as a person, i.e. someone who does try to understand the complexity of people and situations, and does listen, and does not actually get a kick out of violence. having her burn Jaime alive is just brutalising Dany.

[blackjackkent]

Cultist battle report: Bhaal cultists are scary. This has been the cultist battle report.

Hector and co are also scary at this point and Hector basically evaporates people once he manages to get close to them; the scary thing about these cultists, primarily, was that they all got to go first, strike from stealth, and have about 50 attacks each. But once Hector and Karlach are allowed to do the NINE ATTACKS they do between them per round, anyone in the immediate vicinity is toast. Jaheira has also been spending a lot of time in sabertooth tiger form (particularly now while she is very clearly in the mood to rip someone's throat out) which also gets like 2-3 attacks and can cleave off AC levels. Shadowheart is honestly pretty low-key by comparison, but she mostly stands at the back with a bless and a spiritual weapon up and keeps everyone feeling as badass as possible. So we've got a pretty good group going.

(It occurs to me that if I do slot Minsc in for Shadowheart we'll be losing our healer; I think I'm starting to do well enough at this difficulty level that it won't be TOO much of a problem but it will definitely add complexity. Hm. We shall see!)

But eventually we won. Several ambient comments from the thieves/bank employees we saved in the process, of which this was obviously my favorite:

Hell yeah - Jaheira's a badass. ^_^

She's also having a very, very, VERY bad day and showing it.

"I grow tired of these false faces. Every corner we turn, another - and now it is my face they use to turn Minsc against us."

Her voice cracks and she looks away from him towards the floor. "I am sorry," she mutters. "But... I am just... *tired*."

:( :( :(

I really, really wanted Hector to be able to answer something here along the lines of "Oh, gods, me too, you have no idea," but sadly this was one of the points where none of the available options really seemed particularly Hector-ish.

2 is the only one that seems remotely reasonable as an answer, but it's WAY more optimistic than Hector feels about this situation. He suspects at the very least Minsc is tadpoled, and there are a lot of potential worse-case scenarios piled on top of that.

But... he is tired too. Perhaps too tired to try to explain all the ways this could go wrong when Jaheira is no doubt just as aware of them as he is.

"Why?" he says gently. "We know Minsc is alive. Now we just have to find him."

"It is some defect of the mind, I think," Jaheira snaps bitterly, "to stubbornly insist you are following the light, even as you blunder through the darkness."

(It is, perhaps, a defensive reaction, a cry of pain for those she has lost - so many who brought the light wherever they walked. Caden, of course - the boy from Candlekeep who carried Bhaal in his blood but Selune in his soul, who opened his heart to everyone without reservation even when times were darkest. And Rasaad, whose faith wavered but whose striving for the light never did, who stood at her side and held her hand and searched for purpose along with her when all direction seemed to have faded.

Imoen, always quick with a joke, never phased even by the things that faced them in the most horrible corners of the world. Aerie - young, innocent, a beacon of kindness that smoothed some of the rough edges Jaheira would have presented in her worst moments. And Minsc himself, always joyous in combat and out of it, gleeful always as long as he was among friends and on the path of right.

And farther back still, Khalid who she carries always deepest in her heart, his light voice always a counterpoint to her caution, brave and ferocious in defense of the good but always finding the softer note to strike even when all seemed lost.

What good, she wonders, to carry such light on my own, when all those who carried it with me have slipped beyond my reach?

But they are not all gone. She has new companions now - this new monk of Selune with his pale, sad eyes, who has shouldered her burden alongside her without regret or question - who stands looking at her now and offers an optimism that carries echoes of those who came before him.

The light may be hard to come by. But she is not alone in the dark, if she has the courage to face what is lurking there...)

"Or perhaps the defect is mine," she goes on quietly after a short pause. She swallows, draws a shaky breath and lets it out heavily. "When I left Minsc to this fate... I believed I had no choice. I believe it still; we were ignorant of our enemy, unarmed against the cult. I made the right decision. But I do not like how easily I made it."

Her voice has grown flat, wearier than Hector has ever heard it, full of grief and regret. This is, he realizes, a moment of trust; she is taking him as a confidante, speaking of all that has weighed on her. And so he remains silent and very still, as if any movement might break the fragile moment.

"Minsc would never have left me behind," Jaheira goes on heavily. "No matter what happened." A pause, and then her eyes flash with muted frustration. "That is his problem entire. The past century left Minsc unchanged. And so he believes the world has never changed - that *I* have not. You saw the fool... hanging on the doppelganger's every word, for no other reason than that it wears my face."

He hears the anxious catch in her voice, the note of guilt, and the urgency to explain herself, as if it could push the feelings away from her physically. He shakes his head.

"You don't have to explain, Jaheira," he says gently. "You're worried for your friend. It's not a crime."

She looks at him for a moment steadily, and then a slight smile tugs her lips. He can see the visible shift that he is all too familiar with in himself - putting the feelings aside to be dealt with later, or ideally left behind entirely. "No," she says with sudden briskness. "But snotting into my sleeve while there is still work to do is." She turns away, looking out over the blood-smeared vault. "Come, then. We need a lead. And bullying this banker ought to make me feel better."

[xhxnne]

rest, sender rests their head on receiver's shoulder. ( Christian and Aeri )

rest, sender rests their head on receiver's shoulder.

Just as Christian had suspected, they ended up drinking more than a couple of glasses of wine with dinner. The conversation flowed effortlessly, and it wasn’t until she mentioned feeling a little dizzy that he realized they might have overindulged. Thankfully, his alcohol tolerance was high, so he could handle making sure she got home safely, even though he hadn’t brought his car that evening—anticipating a situation like that. It wasn’t the first time she’d stayed over at his place, and after a brief discussion, they agreed to head to one place instead of two, deciding to share a taxi back to his apartment.

As they rode, she leaned her head against his shoulder, and Christian instinctively shifted closer to her. They still had a few more minutes before reaching his apartment complex, so he wrapped his arm around her shoulders, making sure she was comfortable. The silence between them was soft and easy, a quiet moment shared after a long night of laughter and wine.

@pillowxtalk

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Do you think Daemon Blackfyre really loved Daenerys? Idk he seemed happy enough with Rohanne of Tyrosh. Was Daenerys a motivation for his rebellion?

I’ve spoken about this a few times, and my opinion hasn’t really changed. Yandel casting doubt on the relationship isn’t enough when pretty much everyone else in the story from both sides of the conflict—Eustace Osgrey, Barristan Selmy, Doran Martell—that mentions Dænerys I says she and Daemon were in love. GRRM said they were in love in an interview. However, due to the implied character of both of them, I believe any romance would’ve ended once Daemon wed in 184, when he and Dænerys were 14 and 12 (hence any romance was probably a chaste kid-crush later seized on by both sides to suit their narrative). He probably was happy with Rohanne—the couple has parallels to Davos/Marya with their 7 tragic sons and Jaehaerys/Alysanne with their many children, both generally happy marriages—but as a Tyroshi woman in the historically anti-Essosi Westeros (where even the Valyrian-descended Rogares faced coups, exile, and mutilation, and Rohanne wasn’t Valyrian), it was convenient to erase her from the story.

Dænerys wasn’t a motivation for “his rebellion”, because the inciting incident of said rebellion was Da3ron II ordering his arrest based on rumors Bl00draven had told him. She doesn’t enter the picture there (and considering I doubt they had much contact after their marriages, hadn’t for a while), because getting arrested possibly without cause—and, knowing Bl00draven, would’ve rightfully feared for the lives of his family had the arrest succeeded—was more than enough reason. The First Blackfyre romance plots have some similarities to those in Robert’s Rebellion, where it’s said that Robert rebelled to get Lyanna back from the prince who kidnapped her (or Rhaegar and Lyanna eloped without telling anyone, if you’re a royalist); however, we all know that the inciting incident was Aerys II demanding of Jon Arryn the heads of his young wards after brutally murdering Brandon&Rickard Stark et al. It takes the focus away from Aerys’ brutality and tyranny to paint Rhaegar and Robert as romantic figures fighting over a woman; so I think the Daemon/Dænerys story (though having a kernel of truth due to a childhood romance) was used to shift away from the injustice of Da3ron to paint Daemon as a romantic spurned lover. We know Red propaganda was involved post-Redgrass via “The Hammer and the Anvil” in which the credit for the victory was given to Maekar/Baelor’s military tactics rather than Bl00draven having Daemon and his sons shot with arrows while Daemon was trying to save the life of an enemy…so it’s not exactly a stretch that more romanticism is involved to try to hide a complex political situation that makes the ruling family look awful.

[tweedfrog]

Was Rhaegar hoping for Elia to die giving birth to Aegon? I mean he crowned Lyanna while Elia was still pregnant and before he learned she couldn't have any more children.

I dont think Rhaegar was hoping for Elia to die giving birth for a couple of reasons

1 - He could have just tried killing her in an easier way by making her have a 3rd child and then marrying Lyanna after an appropriate mourning period if thats what he wanted. I cant remember whether it was that the maester said Elia just couldnt have more children (as in couldnt concieve) or whether it was that Elia couldnt have more children safely (as in her and the child would live past the birth). There was quite a gap between when he crowned Lyanna and when he ran off with her and he seems to have run off with her after Aegon was born. This means that he knew Elia possibly wouldnt live past a third pregnancy when he decided to take off with Lyanna. The timeline around Roberts Rebellion is quite fuzzy though so this is hard to piece together. If he ran off with Lyanna before Ageon was born then maybe???

2 - His fixation on the prophecy - the things he is doing with his children (trying to have 3, using the naming scheme of the conquerors, Having Aegon be conceived during the time of the comet etc) stem from a desire to fulfill the prophecy and create the prince that was promised. I know fandom argues about how much him taking off with Lyanna was based on "love" for her vs seeing her as a vessel to bring forth his third child but from his actions during the war we can at least see he isnt actively plotting Elia's death. He kept Elia and Rhaenys and Aegon on dragonstone until Aerys recalled them to KL to use as hostages for Dornish loyalty.

3 - Finally characterisation as a reason he wouldnt do this. In the books Rhaegar isn't portrayed (or thought of by anyone except Robert) as an evil person. Hoping your wife kicks the bucket giving birth to your second kid is Craster level evil and i dont think GRRM set up Rhaegar to be characterized this way. I think he's just selfish/has enough of a messiah complex to simply not care about the way his actions are affecting his first wife. "Of course she'd be happy to be the mother of 2 heroes they're going to save westeros from the long night and shes lucky to be part of that" etc etc.

Also just from an outsiders perspective he seems to be either consciously or subconsciously trying to replicate the original trio of Aegon/Rhaenys/Visenya with himself as Aegon Lyanna as Visenya and Elia as Rhaenys. Snd with his own 3 children as the 3 conquerors. This would require Elia to live and be cast in the role of one of the wives.

Of course the thing is despite not actively hoping for Elia to die his political stupidity and actions cause her death and the deaths of their children anyway. That's one of the things i find so interesting about the situation - hes ostensibly this gentle clever handsome prince who at every turn makes the WORST decision possible.

He probably didnt set out to hurt Elia's feelings during the Tourney of Harrenhal! He probably didn't want to have sex with Elia so soon after her bedrest ended after her 1st pregnancy but you see he has to because the comet is here! He probably wants her on Dragonstone away from his clearly insane father but it's really just easier to leave her in KL and he promises he'll somehow fix all this in some way during an unspecified time during the future!

His moitivations mattered less than the result of his actions because functionally nothing changes if he hoped Elia died. He got her killed anyway. Hes like a bad person but not because hes evil deep down it's because he consistantly makes choices that hurt almost everyone close to him to serve a prophecy. And what makes it even worse is that he seems to realize these are the wrong choices but he goes ahead and makes them anyways because he thinks its for the greater good or its just easier for him personally.

[archivesofwysteria]

Resonance

The driving force behind magic within Wysteria is a substance known as Resonance. In large concentrations, it takes the form of a wispy, iridescent vapor; however, such dense Resonance levels do not occur naturally. Resonance seems to have a sort of magnetic pull towards sentient creatures, creating magical auras around them. Resonance is the material that makes up a soul; therefore, the greatest concentrations of Resonance are found within soul-possessing creatures.

This Resonance aura that exists around most creatures is what allows people to perform magic. Resonance is the force that upholds the laws of reality, and through manipulation of Resonance, one can learn to manipulate reality. As one grows in power, their pull on the Resonance around them will grow, allowing them to perform more complex feats of magic. Due to the natural variability of souls, some creatures are born with greater magical pulls than others. Sorcerers, for example, often have highly abnormal Resonance concentrations around them from birth, granting them a natural affinity to magic.

Resonance can be manipulated in a variety of ways, resulting in the creation of three distinct classes of magic: Primal Magic, Classical Magic, and Second Magic. Primal magic is the most base form of Resonance manipulation, often used by fae, sorcerers, and druids. It is notably more chaotic than the other classes of magic, often being far harder to control. Primal magic is the origin of most curses, being heavily affected by the phases of Lunis, the moon. This is because Lunis’ arrival on Wysteria led to the discovery of magic, as Lunis is the single most Resonance-dense being in this reality. Primal magic is far more likely to destabilize and cause Resonance Toxicity than other forms of magic, which is why Wild Magic Sorcerers often experience this destabilization firsthand. Classical magic is often used by demons, celestials, and their followers. It is a more refined form of magic, often taking on the “themes” of the creatures who cast it. This is why worshippers of different entities who cast the same spells will often end up creating different effects. Finally, Second Magic was a humanoid invention, being used by Wizards, Artificers, and other scholars. Second Magic is the calculated manipulation of Resonance to achieve highly specific effects. This makes it the most stable form of Resonance manipulation, but also the hardest to learn.

Large concentrations of Resonance can be found permeating highly magical areas. The Feywild, for example, is so magically-dense that one can actually see Resonance throughout it. These Resonance-dense areas allow for people to cats magic more freely. Having so much unfocused Resonance in one place, however, is exceedingly dangerous. Too much ambient primal magic can form a corrupting influence on nearby souls, making subtle alterations to their very being. These alterations can add up, eventually leading to an entirely different creature.

Case 1 of Resonance Toxicity: Aeris Veridia (Original name: Tavis Veridhalt)

Situation: Only child of the Veridhalt family, Aeris was a brass Dragonborn who, at 6 years old, became lost in the feywild for 8 years.

Alterations: Lost all non-essential memories before the age of 6, including his birth name. Extreme physical alteration, becoming the first example of a “Faerie Dragonborn”. Physical changes include major decrease in height, growing wings similar to that of a fairy, smoothing of scales, major changes to chemical structure of the fundamentum, resulting in the ability to create a gaseous, psychoactive substance known as Euphoria Gas, two pairs of three tentacle-like appendages around the sides of the head, and a pink and blue coloration that, unlike that of actual faerie dragons, does not vary with age. Subject also exhibited behavioral changes, taking on a more “chaotic” personality. Subject is notably more energetic than usual, demonstrating a lack of foresight or focus.

At 21 years of age, Aeris Veridia is currently captain of the Bluetide Coastal Guard. Despite major amnesia, subject is content with their current life. His parents, Vesuvius Veridhalt and Artemis Veridhalt, haven’t seen their son since he disappeared, and likely never will.

[foxstens]

hnfhgnfg gonna talk about rain world some more

i'm listening to this guided tour video about downpour and i'm not liking the opinions in there therefore i must talk.

apparently the crafting tutorial ruins the game bc it shows that gourmand has knowledge you don't. and then the ending does the same bc it's not a surprise to him but it is to you. uhhhhh okay? but you can't really compare gourmand's campaign or personality with survivor since they're completely different therefore they of course have different goals and different knowledge

gourmand is a grown slugcat i guess, he came on an adventure from journey's end, with the intention of going back, but it's not like he's suddenly born in shaded citadel when you start his campaign lol. he probably learned crafting back home or on his way to shaded, but yea. we don't start at the start of his journey

whereas we survivor we kind of do. presumably they get washed down through facility roots and then end up in that room in outskirts, so they have no idea wtf is going on or where they are or what's waiting for them - kinda the opposite of gourmand's situation. i'd argue even the survivor has more knowledge than the player does since they probably know what they can eat due to, you know, having lived in this world until now. which the player doesn't know until the game tells you. but whatever.

anyway the point of gourmand's campaign is to be kind of a sequel to hunter and a prequel to survivor and monk, to show more of the slugcats - where they came from, how they live and all that, and to show gourmand, one of two characters in the entire story who refute the idea of ascension - the other being best boy undegrowth echo. i can see why you'd dislike that if youre so attached to the base game's message but i like seeing more sides represented in the story. in that case you should also dislike hunter's campaign since it does the same thing but eh.

i'm also expecting this person to dislike arti, spearmaster, and rivulet as well since they, too, have a completely different purpose, but i personally don't agree. like would you rather have 5 additional campaigns with the same message and same structure rather than what we actually got, which imo adds so much more to the lore and makes the message so so so so much more complex.

as a sidenote i 100% think that gourmand - spearmaster - rivulet - saint is the best order to play the downpour slugcats, with arti wherever but preferably after all of them. this is bc playing arti before spearmaster spoils most of the world changes except for moon but playing the two back to back can get a lil stale world-wise. gourmand forces you to learn so much about the game and can be a great intro to more combat-focused slugcats if you didn't play hunter previously, whereas arti might be a bit too difficult to play as the first downpour slugcat. the order above probably makes spearmaster the best experience it can be while also being a very interesting experience lore-wise especially on your first playthrough since you can't and shouldn't do them chronologically. also doing riv after spearmaster makes submerged superstructure and even bitter aerie much more poignant imo.

this person keeps going on about immersion and currently about how arti has different motivations than the player, which. okay. if you want the exact same experience as survivor then just play that jfc. it's the freaking self-insert vs full-fledged protagonist argument but with different words and im not here for it. survivor was one experience the other scugs are completely different, get the fuck over it ugh. personally as memorable as my first survivor run was it was only that because of the world, the lore, the creatures, but not at all bc of the scug since survivor is as bland as you can get

whereas the downpour scugs i can actually rank based on how much i like them personality/movement/motivations-wise, and i very much appreciate that. but that might be partly bc i hate self-inserting and because i was more interested in the lore and the overarching story as opposed to the survival-sim from the very beginning.

aaaaaaand now they say the campaigns feel the same, like the worlds as arti or gourmand aren't different enough. i'm not even gonna say anything, i just 1000000% disagree.

on a sidenote why do people not go to moon first??? sure in survivor there might not be much of a point to doing that and as hunter it's no the most optimal path but to me that's the best path. go to moon, then to pebbles, then go back to moon or ascend depending on who you're playing as. as riv making the trekk from shaded to pebbles is an amazing experience, and if you're smart and went to moon first, you can just passage back there after you get the cell. as spearmaster you'll be missing out on a lot of things if you don't go to moon first, and once again if you're smart you can just passage there. as saint the routing can be a bit more flexible but it goes very smoothly like this. oh i keep forgetting that a lot of people hate going through underhang and five pebbles... and then they wonder if they're missing out on stuff, especially on a first playthrough.... oh well, their loss :')

and now they say - bitter aerie is difficult to access as other characters and doesn't connect to other regions, therefore it ends up feeling like a story section. which apparently is bad, for some reason. okay? but it's fun. and the same could be said submerged superstructure aka one of the best area in the entire game, so should that not exist bc of this or what? this could be said for so many regions and subregions i really don't get it lmao.

oh my god while i respect this video for the effort put into it so much of it sees the game through such a game and gameplay-focused lens which imo is the wrong mindset. idk how they ended up liking survivor with this mindset but eh whatever.

hahahaha the radio broadcasts are bad bc they pause the game and 'tell' you things :) i have nothing to saaaaaaaay hearing other opinions should be fun but this isn't when i so vehemently disagree, and not just on a conceptual level but because the things this person doesn't like made the game so much more fun and emotional for me. i cried the most during spearmaster despite having been spoiled about everything previously. and now they're shitting on my favourite food aka the gooieducks. this video was made to piss me off wasn't it lmao.

well, at the very least it seems they liked saint. but did not figure out that the tongue is much better than a grapple worm hah. OH AND NOW APPARENTLY THE BEST ECHO IS ALSO A HYPOCRITE. i mean this person did say they're not one to speculate on the lore which explains some things but not all ancients ascended successfully or willingly, it says so somewhere so like.

'rain world was a machine built for survivor's journey' what the fuck is this. where the fuck does hunter fit into that. where does monk fit into that. what the heck. the lore existed way before downpour wtf is thissssssss lmao i've never heard a worse take. IF YOU LIKE SURVIVOR THAT MUCH JUST PLAY THAT UGHHHHHHH.

but like i keep saying and preaching and saying, this game is a sad post-utopic sci-fi story with buddhist elements masquerading as a rat in manhattan sim, not the other way around. oh but they don't even mention buddhism in this 2 hr long video so idk what im expecting. and its not like you have to be an expert in buddhism to see it, i know barely anything about it and even i saw it. oh. but according to this person the lore has no inherent value. me and this person are on actually opposing wavelengths lmao. anyway i guess there's people out there with these opinions. cool. i am now tired.

now for some positive closing thoughts, i wanna make a tier list of the slugcats. i've been thinking about it for a long time and i think i have a definitive list, at least for now.

s tier: spearmaster, gourmand

a tier: rivulet, saint

b tier: survivor

c tier: artificer,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, hunter

you'd think riv would also be s tier but i just love gourmand os much and with riv i'm zooming all over the place which is extremely fun and riv is extremely adorable and i love her but... the chonk is so powerful... idk i just love playing as gourmand i love his story i love his mechanics i love love love him

yea i know i said survivor is the blandest but they were still my introduction and they're probably the best to play as for a lot of general stuff, and i just like them more than the other two eh.

as for arti, i really like her story i really really like it and metropolis is hnfhgnf but i don't like explosives and i don't like fighting scavs, therefore im gonna have to use a mod to even get through her campaign. as for hunter, i like the lore and i love pebbles in their campaign but so hard. and honestly the most boring combat scug...

[hellsbellschime]

The Myth That Catelyn Stark Is Jon Snow's Wicked Stepmother

There are plenty of nearly universally accepted perspectives in the fandom of A Song of Ice and Fire, but one of the most interesting and seemingly over-simplified perceptions of the story is that Catelyn Stark somehow occupies the role of the classic fairy tale wicked stepmother to Jon Snow.

This particular point of view is a bit perplexing though, both because the textual support around this idea largely isn't strong enough to treat it like irrefutable fact, but more importantly, because the idea that Cat is Jon's abusive stepparent seemingly takes a very modern idea of what blended families should look like and ascribes it to a situation where it does not even remotely apply.

To get it out of the way, Cat telling Jon that "It should have been you" after Bran's fall is an utterly horrific and inappropriate thing to say. It was an unusual circumstance, Cat is clearly not coping with what has happened to Bran very well, and based on her behavior towards Maester Luwin a bit later, she seems to be cruelly lashing out at everyone. But as an adult, it was undeniably Catelyn's responsibility to not take her pain and frustration out on a completely innocent child. Her behavior in this situation is utterly unforgivable.

But aside from this instance, their relationship seems to be almost entirely nonexistent. And the dynamic between Catelyn and Jon was incredibly complex, complex in a way that a child like Jon would be incapable of fully understand and in a way that Ned went out of his way to completely ignore to the detriment of everyone. And ultimately, many fans seem to entirely blame Catelyn for a situation that she didn't want to be in and was objectively in danger as a result of, despite the fact that Cat had absolutely no power or even any other options when she was put in this position.

One of the most informative and interesting passages regarding Jon and Catelyn's relationship and hints at all of the endless influencing factors to it comes relatively early on in A Game of Thrones. In Catelyn II, Ned and Cat have this exchange:

Many men fathered bastards. Catelyn had grown up with that knowledge. It came as no surprise to her, in the first year of her marriage, to learn that Ned had fathered a child on some girl chance met on campaign. He had a man’s needs, after all, and they had spent that year apart, Ned off at war in the south while she remained safe in her father’s castle at Riverrun. Her thoughts were more of Robb, the infant at her breast, than of the husband she scarcely knew. He was welcome to whatever solace he might find between battles. And if his seed quickened, she expected he would see to the child’s needs.

He did more than that. The Starks were not like other men. Ned brought his bastard home with him, and called him “son” for all the north to see. When the wars were over at last, and Catelyn rode to Winterfell, Jon and his wet nurse had already taken up residence.

That cut deep. Ned would not speak of the mother, not so much as a word, but a castle has no secrets, and Catelyn heard her maids repeating tales they heard from the lips of her husband’s soldiers. They whispered of Ser Arthur Dayne, the Sword of the Morning, deadliest of the seven knights of Aerys’s Kingsguard, and of how their young lord had slain him in single combat. And they told how afterward Ned had carried Ser Arthur’s sword back to the beautiful young sister who awaited him in a castle called Starfall on the shores of the Summer Sea. The Lady Ashara Dayne, tall and fair, with haunting violet eyes. It had taken her a fortnight to marshal her courage, but finally, in bed one night, Catelyn had asked her husband the truth of it, asked him to his face.

That was the only time in all their years that Ned had ever frightened her. “Never ask me about Jon,” he said, cold as ice. “He is my blood, and that is all you need to know. And now I will learn where you heard that name, my lady.” She had pledged to obey; she told him; and from that day on, the whispering had stopped, and Ashara Dayne’s name was never heard in Winterfell again.

Whoever Jon’s mother had been, Ned must have loved her fiercely, for nothing Catelyn said would persuade him to send the boy away. It was the one thing she could never forgive him. She had come to love her husband with all her heart, but she had never found it in her to love Jon. She might have overlooked a dozen bastards for Ned’s sake, so long as they were out of sight. Jon was never out of sight, and as he grew, he looked more like Ned than any of the trueborn sons she bore him. Somehow that made it worse. “Jon must go,” she said now.

“He and Robb are close,” Ned said. “I had hoped …”

“He cannot stay here,” Catelyn said, cutting him off. “He is your son, not mine. I will not have him.” It was hard, she knew, but no less the truth. Ned would do the boy no kindness by leaving him here at Winterfell.

The look Ned gave her was anguished. “You know I cannot take him south. There will be no place for him at court. A boy with a bastard’s name … you know what they will say of him. He will be shunned.”

Catelyn armored her heart against the mute appeal in her husband’s eyes. “They say your friend Robert has fathered a dozen bastards himself.”

“And none of them has ever been seen at court!” Ned blazed. “The Lannister woman has seen to that. How can you be so damnably cruel, Catelyn? He is only a boy. He—”

His fury was on him. He might have said more, and worse, but Maester Luwin cut in. “Another solution presents itself,” he said, his voice quiet. “Your brother Benjen came to me about Jon a few days ago. It seems the boy aspires to take the black.”

Ned looked shocked. “He asked to join the Night’s Watch?”

Catelyn said nothing. Let Ned work it out in his own mind; her voice would not be welcome now. Yet gladly would she have kissed the maester just then. His was the perfect solution. Benjen Stark was a Sworn Brother. Jon would be a son to him, the child he would never have. And in time the boy would take the oath as well. He would father no sons who might someday contest with Catelyn’s own grandchildren for Winterfell.

It's a long passage, but it explains nearly everything important about Catelyn and her feelings towards Jon. She outright states that, although being with another woman is an objective betrayal, and although Catelyn clearly could never be with another man despite the fact that she owed Ned no loyalty either, Ned cheating on her in the early days of their marriage was to be expected and she's not even angry about it.

She also directly states that she would have expected Ned to care for any illegitimate children, and she seems to have no negative feelings towards that either. What upsets her is that Ned brings Jon to Winterfell before Catelyn and Robb have even arrived, and acknowledges Jon as his son for the entire world to see.

In a normal contemporary society, Catelyn being upset about her husband's illegitimate son is far less reasonable, and it seems like many fans seem to look at her behavior and decisions through this lens. But she very directly explains why this is a problem, and frankly, she's right.

Ned treating Jon as an equal to all of his children puts all of them in an extremely dangerous and precarious position, and it puts Catelyn in potentially mortal danger at some point in her life as well. However, because Catelyn is a woman and Ned is her husband, she has to go along with whatever he wants and she can't do anything about it.

In the real world, if a woman didn't want to be with someone who already had a child, they would be able to decide not to marry that person. And if a woman was put in a position that was uncomfortable or even dangerous for them after being married, they would have the option to leave. But Catelyn doesn't have those choices, and Ned takes complete advantage of the fact that he can simply tell Cat what to do and she has to do it regardless of whether or not she wants to.

And that really leads into another interesting aspect of this notion that Cat was Jon's wicked stepmother. Because very early on in Ned and Cat's marriage, she inquires about Jon's parentage and the rumors surrounding it, it's the only time in their relationship that Ned ever truly frightened her, and Ned commands her to never ask about Jon's mother again and tell him who started the rumors about Ashara Dayne.

But, one particularly vital aspect of this whole exchange is that Cat does what Ned tells her to do when it comes to Jon. So, if Cat is supposed to be abusive to Jon, then that would logically mean that Ned was aware that Cat was abusing Jon and never told her not to, which makes absolutely no sense.

Interestingly, Ned also says that he can't take Jon from Winterfell to King's Landing because he would be shunned. And although he's angry at Catelyn for being what he characterizes as cruel, he is also blatantly acknowledging that regardless of Cat's lack of relationship with Jon, he is literally more comfortable leaving Jon in Cat's hands alone at Winterfell than he is taking him south among the other lords and ladies who will apparently treat him much more poorly than he thinks Cat will. So again, the notion that Catelyn was abusive to him, and even the notion that she didn't treat him considerably better than Westerosi society would expect him to be treated, doesn't seem to be backed up from Ned's own point of view.

Ned acknowledges that Robb and Jon have a good relationship, but Jon's relationship with all of his siblings seems to be pretty great, or rather, he at least doesn't seem to be treated much differently than any of the other Stark children. At different points, they all acknowledge that Jon is a bastard, but that doesn't seemingly affect the way that he is treated among his siblings. Which again, hints that Catelyn isn't particularly hateful of him, at least outwardly, because she very easily could have poisoned the well against him with all of her kids and she very clearly hasn't done that.

But, one of the most interesting and telling thoughts that Catelyn ever has in relation to Jon is this: "He would father no sons who might someday contest with Catelyn’s own grandchildren for Winterfell."

This is the very obvious problem that everyone likes to ignore or blame Catelyn for outright. Because Catelyn's rejection of Jon isn't just an emotional reaction, it's a political necessity.

Ned isn't a particularly politically savvy individual, and given that he is one of the most powerful and autonomous people in Westeros, he doesn't really have to be. He is the person who is in complete control of his own world, so in his mind, he can treat Jon just like he'd treat a trueborn son and it's fine because what Ned wants is what happens. However, he is very willfully ignoring the societal structure that he lives in, to the detriment of Catelyn, all of their children, and even Jon.

The expectation that a woman should perform a maternal role for any child aside from their own regardless of circumstance is a pretty sexist point of view to begin with, but when it comes to Catelyn specifically, asking her to accept Jon is basically directly asking her to put herself and all of her own children in danger.

Clearly, the rules of Westeros are incredibly unfavorable to all but a few of the people who live within their society. However, the highborn women who are essentially property that is transferred from their fathers to their husbands have very few silver linings in this system that keeps them almost completely disempowered. But one of those silver linings is supposed to be that their children's future is secured purely through the rules of legitimacy and primogeniture. And Jon's very presence in Winterfell is a massive threat to that insurance.

Based on the fact that Catelyn is specifically worried that Jon's sons might contest her own grandchildren's claim to Winterfell, it seems obvious that Cat doesn't question Jon's integrity as a person and doesn't believe that he'd attempt to take her children's inheritance for himself. However, something that a politically savvy person like Cat would likely be aware of is that Jon doesn't even necessarily have to be a manipulative traitor in order to pose a danger to the future of House Stark or to Catelyn's children specifically.

Cat is an intelligent person who understands and more importantly accepts the political complications of Westeros in a way that Ned simply does not. That should come as no great surprise though, as she spent a significant amount of time being raised as Hoster Tully's potential heir and she's a daughter of the Riverlands, a region that has been particularly affected by rebellious bastards. She undoubtedly grew up hearing tales of her uncle Brynden's exploits during the War of the Ninepenny Kings, so she'd be keenly aware of what a dangerous illegitimate child or that child's future bloodline can do.

And that's largely only looking at the Blackfyre rebels, illegitimate Targaryens who largely had no connection to Westeros or the Iron Throne. If the Blackfyres could cause that much war and chaos in the Seven Kingdoms, imagine what kind of effect a northern-looking bastard who is believed to be the son of a highborn woman and has been raised with a lord's education in Winterfell could do to the political situation in the North.

Ned legitimized Jon's position in the North as much as he possibly could have, and Catelyn embracing him or raising him as her own only would have further endangered everyone. Ned obviously has a strong desire to have a happy and united family, but what he refuses to recognize is that ultimately, Jon's character or his love for his family might not even matter all that much in the end.

Jon notices that Catelyn is upset every time he outshines Robb in some manner, but that is only because, unlike Ned, she actually accepts that the more competent Jon seems to be, the bigger danger he could potentially pose. Because Jon doesn't necessarily need to have an independent desire for Winterfell. The lords of the North could throw their support behind him or point him out as a better option if they're ever unhappy with Robb for any reason. Even if Jon outright rejects it, the very fact that Jon offers up another possibility in a world where primogeniture would at least ensure that Cat's children couldn't really be pitted against one another in any kind of succession crisis means that Jon's presence destabilizes the political situation of the kingdom by very nature of his existence.

And, as Cat clearly understands, the threat doesn't end with Jon unless Jon has no children. It's an impossibly cruel situation for Jon to be in, but Catelyn didn't create that situation. It is almost entirely Ned's fault.

Ned clearly feels a lot of responsibility for the near-destruction of his family, but in certain ways, he essentially uses Jon as a means of punishing and publicly shaming himself in the way that he thinks that he deserves. However, Jon and the entire Stark family would have been much better off if Ned had made another decision, and it was entirely his choice to make.

Ned is far too reliant on his own political position and power, and he suffers massive consequences for his belief that his position in society will keep him and the rest of his family safe. He claims Jon as his own son both because of his promise to Lyanna and largely because he's traumatized and afraid of what will happen if Jon is ever discovered, but the cover story that he comes up with actually causes a lot of unnecessary suffering and threats of danger for everyone.

Because unlike Catelyn and the rest of the world, Ned knows that Jon is not his son. Ned has essentially put an enormous amount of pressure on Catelyn, has forced Jon to be isolated and rejected, and has put the political state of the North at great risk because he feels really bad that his sister died and he wants to punish himself for not saving her. But he didn't have to do that, and Jon and the rest of the Starks would have been far safer if he had simply come up with another lie.

Because it really could have been as simple as Ned passing Jon off as Benjen's bastard son instead of his own. He could have raised him like his own son, raised him among the rest of the Starks, and he actually wouldn't have doomed Jon to a position where he would essentially have to forsake every possible future for his own family in order to prevent a potentially catastrophic succession crisis. Plus, obviously Catelyn wouldn't have been nearly as resentful or felt remotely threatened by Jon's presence. But Ned failed to think ahead or plan for Jon's future, and Ned failed to think ahead or even plan for any possible scenario where he wasn't the one who had control of the North and Winterfell, and that choice had terrible consequences for everyone.

It's obvious that the vast majority of Catelyn's behavior towards Jon was driven by the fear of what would happen if he ever posed a threat to the future of her own children, and ironically, those fears have already been proven to be founded, as Jon has literally already been offered legitimacy and Lordship over Winterfell to prevent Sansa and the Lannisters from inheriting it.

Unsurprisingly, he has turned that offer down despite the fact that he genuinely wants it, but Catelyn's instincts regarding what could happen as a result of Jon's existence seem to have been dead on. If the situation had been only slightly different and Jon had made another choice, then Sansa would have become a nearly valueless hostage of House Lannister, and although they were likely planning on getting rid of her once she had given Tyrion children anyway, Stannis' offer of legitimizing Jon could have posed a mortal threat to Sansa despite the fact that as far as the world knew, she was the legal heir to Winterfell.

Obviously, Catelyn's behavior towards Jon hasn't been unimpeachable, and it understandably had an effect on Jon himself. But she had no control over the situation whatsoever, so castigating her for being put in an entirely unfair position and then not standing up to volunteer as a surrogate mother to a child that not only wasn't hers, but could pose a serious threat to the future of her entire family, is ridiculous.

According to the actual text of A Song of Ice and Fire, it seems like the fan perception of Cat's hatred towards Jon is massively overstated as well. And, although Cersei Lannister should obviously never be the standard-bearer for anything, it's worth acknowledging that if Ned had married Cersei instead, Jon would have been dead within a fortnight. Frankly, if he had been wed to any politically motivated and particularly cold woman, then Ned openly claiming Jon as his own bastard son probably would have gotten Jon killed very early on anyway.

Ned's desire to do what he believes is honorable can be admirable, but realistically speaking, he is often willfully ignorant of the realities of the world to the point where it endangers everyone around him. Ultimately, his commitment to honor even when it so clearly conflicts with common sense is what literally got him killed.

However, blaming Cat for not 100% committing to Ned's delusional fantasies of what he wanted the world to look like is absurd, and does not take into account that in the end, Ned had absolute power over Catelyn to the point that he could force her into a life-threatening situation and she had no other choice but to follow his commands.

Cat didn't play the part of mother to Jon, but she didn't have to, because he's not her child. It's not abuse for a woman to not parent a child that isn't hers, and the notion that she's a terrible person because she didn't enthusiastically embrace Jon as her own and instead simply tolerated the position that Ned forced her into is a completely unfair characterization.

Ultimately, neither Jon nor Cat bears any responsibility for what happened to them, and they both suffered as a result of Ned's desire to publicly self-flagellate as some sort of roundabout punishment for failing Lyanna. Although unfortunately, by making the choices that he does, Ned seemingly makes the same mistake that he made with Lyanna all over again. Lyanna wasn't comfortable with marrying a man who fathered bastards or wasn't loyal to her, making her standards surrounding illegitimate children considerably stricter than Catelyn's. However, Ned didn't want to face the reality of the problem, and that resulted in an absolute catastrophe for the North and the Starks.

Ironically, hardly anyone in the A Song of Ice and Fire fandom drags Lyanna for literally fleeing her home in secret because she didn't want to marry a man who had already been disloyal to her and fathered bastard children, a decision that ultimately resulted in a civil war that nearly destroyed House Stark. But for some reason, Catelyn isn't offered that same inherent agency as a person in the eyes of many readers, who apparently believe that instead of being able to have some actual input in a life-altering choice for her, she should have just devoted herself to her husband's desires and ignored her own feelings and self-interests.

In terms of the fictional world of Westeros, Ned is obviously just about as good as a man can be, but he's certainly not without flaw. He's in a position of near-absolute power over his entire family, and he often makes decisions that are what he wants personally rather than what is in their actual best interest. Cat had no right to lash out at Jon after Bran's fall, but frankly, Ned shouldn't have ever put her in the position she was in to begin with, and the notion that she is a wicked stepmother because she lashed out once after suffering indignity and insult in front of the entire world for a decade and a half is ridiculously unfair.

[agentrouka-blog]

1)I think that grrm is straight up writing a love story calling rhaegar love struck, him saying lyanna his last word, calling that loveshack tower of joy etc I don't think there's anything to read b/w the lines. Him crowning her qol&b was a political move to show Brandon that he was aware of southron ambitions & to back off with the alliance. I am sure there was mutual attraction b/w R & L and he crowned her for admiration too. But I don't think they fell in love nor do I believe they had any pl

2) plans to elope. I think he rescues her from kings's guards & keeps her hostage/leverage against southron alliance. He wanted to break L's engagement to Bobby to destroy STAB alliance. He also comes to know that brandon went along with his wedding to cat despite his warning at harrenhal. They fall in love during their journey to dorne wherein he comes to know that Elia & kids are hostage. Martells will ask him to give up lyanna. So they hide to protect her from aerys, Robert & martells.

Hi anon!

I actually like the first part of your ask because it adds a modicum of depth to Rhaegar's moves at Harrenhal, and acknowledges the way the Stark-Tully-Arryn-Baratheon Alliance formed an unsubtly threatening block against the Targs by literally encircling the Crownlands. (Though a better explanation is an attempt to acknowledge, rather than threaten, Rickard's and Jon's and Hoster's scheme.)

Where I think it is less solid is a couple of other points.

1) It erases the role of the prophecy that more than one source describes as very important to not just Rhaegar but the Targ monarchy as a whole ever since Jenny of Oldstones. Rhaegar and Aemon were exchanging letters about it as late as after Aegon’s birth, i.e. when Rhaegar was readying to abandon Elia after she almost died in childbirth.

Rhaegar, I thought . . . the smoke was from the fire that devoured Summerhall on the day of his birth, the salt from the tears shed for those who died. He shared my belief when he was young, but later he became persuaded that it was his own son who fulfilled the prophecy, for a comet had been seen above King's Landing on the night Aegon was conceived, and Rhaegar was certain the bleeding star had to be a comet. (AFFC, Samwell IV)

2) It's a terrible plan in its conception and even worse in its execution. There’s a four-kingdom conspiracy going on, and Daddy Aerys just managed to piss off a fifth by snatching Jaime, and Rhaegar’s bright move with the flower crown is doing everything to convince the entire Realm that he is slightly unhinged himself.

As far as messages go, it’s completely ambiguious. Handing Lyanna the crown means.. he wants to kidnap her if Brandon marries Catelyn? Did he send him a secret letter to go with the gesture, or was Brandon supposed to read that between the lines?

Plus, “threatening” the heir Brandon is pretty pointless when it’s the father generation pulling the strings. The only relevant “head of a House” there present was Robert, his cousin, whom he had just succeeded in deeply angering. Not to mention confusing a sixth kingdom he depends on (Dorne). It doesn't break the alliance, it solidifies it. 

(Also, why on earth doesn’t House Stark properly protect Lyanna after this threat?)

Worse, when this fool-proof threat doesn’t have the desired effect, he does kidnap Lyanna to make her a hostage to force the Alliance to comply - except not only does he fail to tell her family, or to take her to KL, where she would be a “guest” of the official crown, he makes her his personal prisoner (once more proving he is as unhinged as Aerys) and drags her to... Dorne? Without telling anyone about it? And doesn’t rear his head again for months while the situation devolves into a Rebellion because obviously the kidnapped girl caused an uproar and he left Aerys to deal with it?

3) Rhaegar’s reason for suddenly abandoning his terrible but complex, time-sensitive and high-stakes plan is a sudden case of “in mutual love” with his teenaged kidnap victim? He just drops all of it in order to shack up with a fifteen-year-old in the middle of nowhere? He is scared House Martell will take his widdle mistress away while the kingdom is going up in flames? Really?

4) It makes Lyanna an absolute imbecile. Why would she fall in love with her kidnapper, who has a wife and children? She's 14/15 and he's eight years older and has demonstrated his gross lack of respect for her family and her values. What? This is not a “love story” at all. It’s two imbeciles absolutely out of touch with reality for no reason at all.

5) There's an easier explanation for GRRM describing him as love-struck: he can't say anything else without inviting questions. RLJ is still supposedly a secret, and there is no logical explanation for Rhaegar kidnapping a girl and then hiding her. The illogical explanations are "love", or the explicit secret intention of creating that third head of the dragon. Love is one of the un-universe explanations, and the easiest obfuscating answer GRRM can give. Plus, for all we know, Rhaegar himself did develop a creepy attraction to Lyanna. Something must have motivated him to choose her. But we don’t even know which name he whispered while he died. It’s implied but never explicitly stated that it was Lyanna. For all we know it was something entirely else.

This theory makes Rhaegar look even worse than the concept of his prophecy obsession. That one is, at least, consistent with itself, while this theory hinges on him being dumb as rocks and both so zealous as to start this confrontation and then so disinterested as to drop it entirely and achieve the exact opposite of his original intention, until he half-heartedly rides forth to fight and die at the Trident. (Why not just run off with Lyanna if he didn’t care abut any of it?)

There is no internal logic, and no motivation for this “love” that supposedly makes it a “love story”. So... no, I don’t think this makes any sense.

[ilynpilled]

idk if my ask got swallowed by beast that is tumblr or you ignored it so i'll just ask again: do you think ser waymar royce in the prologue is a jaime parallel? he's a commander, young and handsome, cocky and snarky, and a son to a lord, who takes a final stand against the dark and dies bravely fighting an Other with no one else but the reader knowing of his deed.

nah imo. these parallels are pretty surface level. as for the these themes present in the prologue it is not exclusive to a single pov (especially would not say jaime) like this it just permeates the series as a whole. im going from memory here but waymar royce’s whole deal to me is mostly about class/feudalism/meritocracy (more like the lack of), westerosi primogeniture, and the tragedy of young men trying to put meaning to their existence in ‘war’ when there is no place else for them, see the NW also functioning as a place to shove the many knights, lords, criminals, smallfolk etc. with no land/income/resources because nothing is distributed in a sensible way in this feudal society. courage/cowardice/gallantry is significant in the chapter too (what is brave? what is practical? what is selfish and egodriven? is dying for nothing but some personal triumph of overcoming fear like this anything but tragic? is the inherent meaning within that action enough? is it more admirable to try to live to tell the significant tale which would actually save lives? and so on)

these themes r not exclusive to jaime (he likely was not even fully realized as a character by this point anyway), and i dont even think he deals with them in the same way. i do like the idea of jaime’s heroism not being known in whatever form that takes when it concerns endgame because it is poignant with him and his story, and if you want jaime’s story to end thematically on true bravery (i pretty much want the same) then for him imo it wouldnt really be about some gallant fight and ‘dignity’ in the face of death. like even if he falls against the others, at a deeper level it wouldnt really be about that. the text frames bravery as something that can only exist when one is afraid. jaime doesnt fear death. it is reinforced by his actions as well as two clear and sincere statements. especially death in battle. jaime does not want to live that bad, he is consumed by despair enough to not fear losing his life. jaime repeatedly being referred to as courageous by other characters is therefore deconstructed (gets overt especially when he is called craven by brienne during a very important scene), because he isn’t truly brave yet. jaime is afraid to “live.” more specifically standing up and facing despair and the horrors and contradictions of the world. that is what he keeps running away from, and why he stagnated so hard post aerys. he is terrified in the dream. and he is not terrified of powerful figures coming at him with swords, but them coming at him with contradicting oaths, his guilt, and complex truths. he is scared of loss and abandonment. his own darkness. and it is that terror of his light going out when confronted with these things and that truly leaving him in darkness that really scares him. that would mean all purpose being destroyed, and existence being rendered meaningless. “why would the stars want to look down on such as me?” is emblematic of that feeling. it would be the final push into complete nihilism. “choices”, the thesis of his arc, becoming meaningless. this is a big part of him never confessing the aerys situation, because if the result of the confession is like the one in the dream, then that is what will happen. it is deeper than ned, u see him expecting him to come out, but it is not him “it was never him.”everything would become meaningless if that choice of his, in its full context, would be rejected by his ‘heroes’. the whole thing is symbolic of an idealist burning out with his “flame” literally being withered by the complicated reality of what feels like a fundamentally unjust world.

which is why it is so meaningful that he jumps into the pit willingly and kills the beast. it mirrors the abyss that he is shoved into screaming in the dream. if you are not in the pit, you will never confront what you fear most. accepting the horrors of the world and and refusing to fight it under the guise of cynicism and nihilism is cowardice on his part. if you dare to have hope be reignited, it might result in the flame dying out for eternity. and there is no greater risk than that. that is what reconstructing “the brave knight” is about. this is also why he is only really afraid, and tyrion (who says he has never seen jaime afraid like this when talking about the similarities between his and joffrey’s eyes during the latter’s death, as well as repeatedly noting jaime’s bravery) notices it and is taken off guard by it, when he is confessing the tysha situation. imo, him being truly brave is confronting truth, confronting the darkness, and being brave enough to not let the light go out, just like the example brienne shows, and allowing hope to exist. allowing yourself to still care despite the horrors that rendered you so cynical. not letting that flame be withered and destroyed by them (is that flame your humanity, hope, or whatever else of the sort? i think the symbolism is ambiguous enough to allow and encourage interpretation, but i read it as deeper than just literal ‘life’. it is purpose to existence) as far as dying is concerned, i dont really care atp. it is kinda open still with cersei saying “you will die when the flames die” and brienne’s still burns, so there is light in “his darkness.” but i can see his arc potentially building up to some kind of tragedy/death. i just hope to see him believe in and understand true heroism by the end of his story, and know that his choices hold meaning despite the contradictions and that the horrors can and should be fought, no matter the cost, personal pride and fear and despair be damned. no more going away inside.

feast makes it clear that the vows cannot compromise, so it is time to choose. brienne is the key representation of that for him. and there is a reason her sword keeps burning. there is a reason he dreamed of her. a reason he dares to dream again. there is a reason he comes back.

and i think all that can still exist in a ‘tragic’ or a bittersweet ending.

[jackoshadows]

Since this fandom makes such a big deal out of Jaime saving the city during Aerys' reign, I guess my question is what do you think triggered Jaime the most? Was it Aerys threatening to have Tywin executed? Because most of the times when I see people bring this up to defend Jaime they usually mention dialogue from the show, but none of that heroic "i did it to protect the women and children, THE INNOCENTS!!!" is in the book dialogue.

And is it even that altruistic to choose not to have yourself along with millions of people burned to death? I think most people wouldn't think twice if they had the chance. + I can't even understand why Aerys' pyromaster would align with that plan to be honest...

I do think that Jaime killed Aerys to protect the city - partly because he wanted to prevent a massacre, partly because he, his father, his father's men/army were all in KL at that time. It's part survival and part wanting to save everyone from an insane king.

Though, I think that anyone would have done the same. I don't see why Jaime is exalted for doing the bare minimum. His pity party - that no one appreciated him saving the city and Ned did not shake his hand and give him hugs - is what's more obnoxious. How is anyone supposed to know why he killed Aerys if he doesn't tell them what happened? Plus, this is guy running around trying to murder children - sit down and shut up!

The other Kingsguard are often brought up as being sticklers for rules who ignored Aerys' brutality, but we don't know the whole story there or how they would have reacted in the same situation. We only have Jaime's pov on them, but GRRM had this to say:

Q: Arthur Dayne has been presented as the quintessential chivalrous knight. How could he support the atrocities of Aerys, that even Jaime was horrified by?

A: Well... keep reading.

GRRM SSM, 2012

Plus, Jaime talks about being disillusioned by the KG and their oaths, when the reason he even joins the KG in the first place is to shag his twin sister and commit adultery.

Like I said, Jaime as a character, is someone I just don't get. His character motivations don't make sense to me. It's like GRRM reached book 3 and decided to give the character some grey morality - but his poor little rich boy act just doesn't resonate for me - unlike more complex, deeper characters like Tyrion and Theon. Even Cersei's internalized misogyny, anger and bitterness at being a woman in a man's world makes more sense than golden boy Jaime's self pity act.

I would have truly appreciated Jaime, if after killing Aerys he immediately left to protect Elia and her babies from his father's men - as his oaths demanded - rather than sitting on the Iron Throne waiting for Ned to get there so he could get all angry about not being properly appreciated.

So yeah, Jaime did take down Aerys to protect the people of KL, himself, his father and his father's men. I think any sensible person in that situation would have done the same. The problem is that Jaime, for some reason, kept silent about the whole thing, and then hated on others for not appreciating his awesomeness.

[melrosing]

IMO, distracting Jaime with Stoneheart is GRRM's way of extricating Jaime morally from the Cersei/High Sparrow situation until such a time when Jaime's response will be different from how it was in ADWD. In GRRM's masterplan - as show by the weirwood dream - Jaime's primary conflict is over dead children and breaking his oaths. *That* is the trauma that GRRM is getting Jaime to face through the Stoneheart saga, and it will be felt really acutely by Jaime because of Brienne's own conflict with oaths in the same period, and maybe even the fate of Pod, a child Brienne is desperately trying to save. How will a Jaime who has seen all that respond to a Cersei that has perhaps killed Margaery and had a hand in Tommen and/or Myrcella's deaths? Very differently to how ADWD would respond, I'd imagine.

Jaime finding out what has happened to Cersei after she has begun to behave an awful lot like the tyrannical Aerys and has maybe even had a hand in the death of one of their children will result in a more complex response than the desire to cut her out of his life he exhibits in ADWD, or even just straight forward anger at the misogynistic Sparrows that he might have felt had he got the full details in ADWD. It is *that* feeling that will push him into being valonqar, IMO, or cut her off for good.

ya I'd say this is roughly my line of thinking re. valonqar Jaime. I've never liked the idea of him being the one to fulfil the prophecy, because I think it'll come with some uncomfortable connotations regardless of how it's done - we'll have to wait till we have the scene to judge the full extent of that. But there's a reason both Jaime and the narrative have been repeatedly comparing Cersei to Aerys, and why Jaime's primary traumas are all that he couldn't prevent Aerys from doing. The 'moonboy' diatribe is a conclusion to their ASOS/AFFC arc, not their entire story together.

[lucyskywalker]

I may be a Arya stan; but Dany is my second favorite character, so I am here to defend her and I got fucking tired of this hipocrisy. Warning: If there are mistakes on it, I'm sorry, because Im not a specialisty on Dany's arc. This is just me wanting to get some frustration out of my chest.

I'm getting tired to open Twitter, Quora and Reddit with all the ASoIaF "intelectuals" calling Dany a tyrant, when it is clear that they don't even know what the word means. Calling her a slaver. Calling her a monster. Also, there are uncountable that points out she would be nothing without Viserys. You guys know who I'm talking about, right? The one who abused his little sister emocionally, phisically and sexually. Sold his little sister as a slave/let clear that would not raise a hand if all the khalaser raped her, because he needed an army. This Viserys is the only one Im talking about.

"Poor Viserys. He didn't deserve it."

"Poor slaver, mad Danielle destroyed the economy."

"Poor masters crucified. They only have grown in this community. They are not wrong. This fucking white savior is."

Those people have the audacity to say it, and after that, the same profiles change all Sansa's storyline, says Sansa deserves the dragons, what she could do with dragons, and I'm damm sure they are the ones who writes and read fanfics where they put their dear redhead on Dany's place.

The audacity of some people is something infuriating. You know what? Dany is NOT a fucking TYRANT, much less a slaver. How can you point it out, when Dany was a SLAVE herself?! She was SOLD to the dothraki! Why this needs to be said?!

Because she liked the dothraki?

Dany was a pre-teen that was mentally, phisically and sexually abused during her all life, and this is OBVIOUSLY include her childhood.

She just started liking the dothraki after she accepts and takes "control" of her sexual life; or better, just accepts being raped by Drogo as a part of her life, in exchange of it she is respected by the whole khalasar and is gifted with "love" and "care". This is disgusting. It is more disgusting people calling her a bitch because of it! DAENERYS WAS THIRTEEN YEARS OLD! GIVE A THIRTEEN YEARS OLD CHILD WHO WAS ALWAYS ABUSED AND HARESSAD BY HER OWN BROTHER A BIT OF CARE AND " SICK LOVE" THIS CHILD WILL LOVE THEM BACK! THIS IS THE BASIC OF PSICHOLOGY WHEN YOU DEAL WITH AN ABUSE SURVIVOR! THIS IS WHY VICTIMS OF ABUSIVE RELATIONSHIPS TENDS TO DEFEND THEIR ABUSERS! THAT'S THE REASON DANY STILL REMEMBERS OF DROGO AND VISERYS FOUNDLY EVEN IN ADWD!

The dragons? Dany LOVES her dragons! The mother of dragons is not only a nicknam, much less a title. For Dany they are her children! But she is afraid, she was afraid because she finally saw her loved children were dangerous creatures to others. This is why she locks them. It hurts her, but the safety of her people comes first. She choose to make this sacrifice.

Also for all the crazy people who says Dany would be nothing without her dragons and it was given to her, I say "shut up". Dany was presented with eggs. Who've read Fire & Blood or payed a fucking attention in ASoIaF knows that having dragon eggs means nothing! The eggs were stone! Dead to everyone! In centuries, since the Dance with Dragons there were no dragons. Targaryens loose their life trying to hatch them. Dany is special. She entered into the fire, without knowing she would survive, and the dragons hatched. She was the first kalheesi ever to lead a khalasar. The khalasar just follow the strong ones.

About the tyranny? I can write a fucking whole essay about her called "tyranny". Dany is harsh, this is true. She is vengeful. But you know what more she is? Daenerys is just!

She was an outsider who saw a whole community that enslaved people, children, men and women, and saw that it was fucking wrong!

More than that. Dany saw it was wrong, but she also saw she could change it. She had the power to make it better. So she did.

In centuries, westerosi people and anothers have seen slavery, some despised but didn't do anything to change the situation. Dany was the only one in centuries to see it by what it was and try to change the disgusting slaver culture in slaver's bay.

She could have taken only the unsullied and sailed to Westeros, but no. She choose to stay and make things right. She decided to fight for freedom.

More than that, as queen of Meereen she tries her best to be the best ruler she can be. She wants her people to love her, and she works for it intead of being passive as someone we know damm well. She hears her councillors. Would a tyrant do that? No. Aerys was a tyrant. He would kill anyone who speaks against his will. Dany is not that person. She is not her father. This is her writing. She is a Targaryen through and through, but a tyrant? Never. This is thesis of her arc ass it can be stated by Barristan Selmy who served the Mad King.

Was it wrong to end slavery? I don't think so. Dany tought it was only ending slavery, but she finally saw the political consequence of it, and what I love about her? She is not running away from it. She is facing the consequences bravely. She decided to marry again to please the meereen people and the called "sons of the harpy", because she wanted peace! She wanted her people to stop suffering. This was her wish. More than the iron throne.

The iron throne? Is it wrong for her to want justice and blood from the ones she believes betrayed a good King? To want what is hers by birthright? Because this is what Daenerys knew about her father. Aerys was a good king, betrayed by the Lannister, Baratheon and Starks because the usurpers wanted the throne. Viserys told it to her since she was a young child. It was a fact. How is Dany supposed to know every damn thing? Just recently she is learning the truth of how mad Aerys was.

Also, if people get mad if Dany rides Drogon in the next book, I say fuck you. It's a war she is fighting. Her enemies would be glad to see her head on a spike. If Dany fights back, I will congrelute her.

Dany is incredible complex, with flaws and a lot of redeem qualities. Her arc is awesome to read. If you can't stand that war, death, and that there are no perfect hero, you are at the wrong fandom. ASoIaF is not for you. Get out of here.

And for the stansas and jonsas, because these disgusting people who claim those things can just be part of darling redhead. What your "favorite" have done untill now in the books? Betrayed her family? Survived? Killing her cousin what you claim she is too dumb for noticing? Wow. How spacial. It is easy to "love" such a great incredible cough* passive classicist*cough character. 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

I know damm well who I stan.

I stan Daenerys of House Targaryen

I stan Arya of House Stark.

I accept their flaws and qualities equally. And I love them for being such incredible grey complexes characters.

For the ones that still say "poor Viserys", and "poor slavers" and "poor masters", I just say one thing:

[khaleesirin]

Hi, khaleesirin! I’ve read your “Daenerys Targaryen is the Great Other” analysis, I thought it was particularly amazing (because the standard is high as it is), it gave me a new lens to look at and analyze Daenerys’ story and it propelled me to reflect further about her arc and themes in relation to the other characters’. I’d like to know your opinion about my musings.

So, I think it’s obvious that the show - at least in its final episodes - had double standards when it came to Daenerys in order to paint her in a bad light. However, I wonder if that won’t also be the case in the books, to a lesser extent.

One of the major themes permeating FeastDance as a whole is false peace, which you can see with the Lannisters and the Tyrells squabbling over Tommen; the several factions in the Night’s Watch; the Freys in the Riverlands; the Boltons and the former Stark vassals (especially the Manderlys); Dorne’s supposed allegiance to the Iron Throne (and also Arianne’s years-long resentment); the situation in the Vale with Littlefinger as Lord Protector; Team Aegon out of public sight (for the most part); and, of course, Daenerys’ campaign in Slaver’s Bay. In all of these plots, people are trying to resolve their disagreements in vain: sometimes war is inevitable.

What makes me uncomfortable is that, as far as I’m aware, Daenerys is the only character whose choice of war (or, more precisely, Fire and Blood) is possibly being framed negatively. I say “possibly” because we don’t have TWOW in our hands to be sure, but you can see that’s a possibility considering how a significant part of the fandom has come to the conclusion that she just can’t be a peacetime queen, she has shown her “true colors”. This opinion never sat well with me because, as I said, lots of characters are heading towards this direction, and Daenerys herself only arrived at that place after having made many efforts to make amends, but they weren’t meant to last because some wars need to be fought on. It is a specific situation that will likely bring out her more violent impulses, yet it doesn’t define her character as a whole. I’ve read arguments about how the peace was worth it in Meereen and how Daenerys is now going backwards, but I simply disagree with them and, considering the pattern in the narrative and the anti-slavery ideas in Fevre Dream, I lean towards GRRM disagreeing as well (I’d really like to know if his main inspiration for Daenerys’ storyline was the American Civil War or the Iraq war, because knowing that would really clarify what he is trying to convey with her storyline). In any case, again, why is she the only character whose decision to fight the just (and inevitable) war is being framed as a step too far, a turn to the darkness?

a) In this case, I think it’s worth considering the Doylist viewpoint. ASOIAF was supposed to be a trilogy of books about Westeros first and foremost. Daenerys was supposed to live among the Dothraki, birth her dragons, get an army and get to Westeros in the beginning of the third book. As we know, GRRM is a “gardener”, so, as he had more ideas for the characters in Westeros, he had to create more stories for Daenerys as well, and one of them was her ruling in Meereen. This brings me back to your essay about her: being the fire of the song of ice and fire, why isn’t her anti-slavery war in Essos given as much importance as the War for the Dawn? Why should it be a mid-point for the character to realize that her endgame is Westeros? If Jon’s struggles against the Others represent the battle against the supernatural form of slavery and the ice part of the story, why shouldn’t Daenerys’ narrative be the battle against the human form of slavery and the fire part of the story? I’d argue both are just wars, though the WftD is an easier, more black-and-white, standard fantasy conflict, while the war in Slaver’s Bay has more nuance (one may argue that the characters revolving Daenerys are not fleshed out enough or dumbed down military speaking or one may point out the racist aspects of Daenerys’ story, but the socioeconomic situation is indeed complex) and is more controversial, which only reinforces the need to continue developing this story and, most importantly, Daenerys’ political career (which I’ll get to later).

These questions show that GRRM also has his architect side. Daenerys’ endgame is Westeros because he’s already said his story is about Westeros. Therefore, he needs to transition her to a mindset that’ll propel her to finally leave, but I don’t think he’s considered (or cared enough about) certain negative implications that I laid out above (and it’s not exhaustive, other writers have talked a lot more about it).

b) We also need to consider how the show factors into those speculations and how we look at the story, because, like it or not, GRRM still told the ending to D&D, even if in a very simplified manner. Before season eight aired, I was fine with the idea that all of the six main characters were going through the darkest phases of their journeys, but that Daenerys’ in particular would cause more collateral damage as a natural consequence of the power she wields. After season eight, however, I started to reflect if GRRM may have double standards against Daenerys as well. In any case, the show has made it very likely that her fire and blood phase will culminate with her burning of King’s Landing. On the one hand, this could be dramatically interesting, but on the other hand, it could amplify those very double standards against her. I’ll explain:

b1) As of ADWD, Daenerys hasn’t yet been exposed to the atrocities her father has committed (in part because she refuses to do so). What better (if deeply tragic) way to do so than have her directly confronting the legacy he’s left behind - namely, the wildfire caches all over the city? It would shatter her sense of purpose in life and lead her to question herself and her sanity. It would lead her to be critical of the Targaryen legacy and how she wants to engage with it and how she uses it to define herself. It would make her feel more lonely and isolated than ever, especially since one of her core wishes is to belong somewhere, to have a place to call home… And no one would embrace her if they think she did it on purpose. I can see this being dramatically really interesting.

b2) But I have my reservations about this: 1) If this happens, Daenerys will be in need for redemption and this doesn’t feel right to me (similar to how I feel about Arya). 1.1) She is not and has never been morally flawed as characters like Jaime or Theon or even Tyrion and Sandor. As of ADWD, she’s only committed two morally ambiguous acts (ie crucifying the 163 masters and torturing the wineseller’s daughters). She’s always had her heart in the right place and, if this tragedy happened, it wouldn’t necessarily turn her darker, she’d be a victim of circumstance (and I say so because I don’t see how her actions are any different than the other leaders fighting in the Wot5K, again the double standards…). I dislike how this would frame her outcome in such a moralistic way, especially considering how her character and arc have been paralleled with Jon’s and I’ve yet to see any theories of his character taking a dark turn. 1.2) She’s one of the characters who better embody the books’ idea that you have to do the right thing even if you don’t get anything in return. And yet, not only her war in Essos will be given less narrative importance compared to the WftD (because it will be treated as a middle stage to her fire and blood phase), but when she arrives in the protagonist-centered Westeros, she will be committing war crimes (even if accidentally in the case of the burning of KL)? I’m not a fan of this scenario because it strengthens the idea that she can’t be a peacetime queen because her choice in her final ADWD chapter was fire and blood (which as I’ve said ignores all the time she spent trying to make peace). 2) Also, I’ve noticed a tendency of fandom also demonizing the Targaryen dynasty as a whole, the dragons and the Iron Throne (which to them serves the same thematic purpose as the Ring of LoTR) and I don’t buy their interpretation either because we’ve already seen previous kings who did right by Westeros sitting on the Iron Throne and using their dragons. Having Daenerys fail so spectacularly to restore her family’s dynasty and destroy its most important symbol (the Iron Throne) does not say much about the dynasty’s nature or even the corrupting nature of power as they’d like to believe, it mainly creates sexist implications (that I’ll discuss below). Of course, this depends on how it’s framed: if the dynasty’s end is meant to be a tragedy because of Aerys II’s actions, then I’d buy it; if the dynasty’s end is meant to be a better course of action for Westeros, then it does not work. I wonder why the Targaryens are so vilified when every other house is also working under the parameters of feudalism. Feudalism as a whole should be criticized. Why are the North or Dorne in any better conditions under the governments of House Stark and House Martell? And if GRRM wanted to make an statement about how it’s bad for one individual to accumulate so much power under a centralized government, he really failed, because the Targaryen dynasty is made of successes as much as failures. 3) I’d still expect Daenerys to choose a diplomatic course of action before ultimately deciding to use her dragons on Team Aegon. Heck, it’s still mind-blowing to me to know how the Yunkish masters have burned a lot more things in ADWD than Daenerys and then envision a scenario where she decides to go fire and blood and then accidentally burns everything. GRRM will have to be careful with how he executes this plot if this happens, precisely because it doesn’t gel that well with her previous characterization.

b3) If Daenerys burning KL comes to pass (and the show made it seem very likely that it will), then Daenerys is most likely another queen who failed, which is another tired plot point as well. Anyone who’s read F&B knows that Aerea and Rhaella Targaryen, Rhaena Targaryen, Rhaenys Targaryen, Rhaenyra Targaryen and Daena Targaryen were all considered as queens but were ultimately passed over for their male relatives. It’s a shame that GRRM had so many opportunities to let women rule and chose not to, so why can’t Daenerys be the ultimate change for the dynasty? Related to that point, why can’t she succeed in re-establishing her dynasty when Aegon the Conqueror could? You can’t escape the gender aspect of her potential failure, and having Sansa end as QITN doesn’t fix that, it only makes one question the double standard that plagues House Targaryen and not the others. Finally, in hindsight of the historical (and GRRM’s) pattern of setting female rulers aside and of everything that might happen to Daenerys in the books, having Aegon take the throne and get the love from the smallfolk Daenerys craves for only adds salt to the wounds.

b4) Of course, all I’m supposing that happened in the show and will also happen in the books is that Daenerys will burn King’s Landing. Will she be made a villain and implied mad as well after a lot of stupid foreshadowing in which male characters only told us what the writers wanted the viewers to see, rather than the writers actually showing signs of madness? Will she willingly burn a city full of innocents? Will she be robbed of her perspective by waving away all her actions as “Targaryen madness” (another way of the fandom demonizing the Targaryens, which the text doesn’t really support if you look closely)? Will GRRM not pay attention to how those actions could undermine the book series’ main themes (not that the fucking show has conveyed any themes in a consistent manner, but that’s a bigger issue)? Will he have it happen at a point that’ll leave Daenerys with no chance to redeem herself and end her story with her legacy forever tarnished in-universe, general awareness and pop culture? Will he make Jon Snow look good even after killing her (if that’s how she dies)? Will he make her work within a system that never gave her a chance and have her last appearance be drenched in Nazi symbolism? Because of the double standard that’s also present in the books affecting how Daenerys is perceived, I’m no longer a fan of the theory of her burning King’s Landing. But, if it happens (and it won’t happen without its share of issues), please, GRRM, let her voice be heard, pay attention to her previous characterization, reflect on how those actions will be tied to the book series’ themes and give her a chance to redeem herself and ultimately end on the side of the heroes (because that’s what she is, and that’s important to acknowledge because of her previous acts, the series’ themes and how she compares - or doesn’t - to the actual villains of the story).

Anyway, I agree with you that it was great to see Daenerys rule in Meereen and that it’d a shame if GRRM doesn’t recognize that in the future books. I’m not sure the original Daenerys as he envisioned was going to be as revolutionary as Daenerys is, but, considering the OTL as it is, if their trajectories have changed, then naturally their endgames must be different as well (fitting with GRRM’s gardener identity).

I’d argue that Daenerys’ ending should emphasize her as a political force. Therefore, if one must have her have her dark phase and then burn King’s Landing (and not allow her to continue the Targaryen dynasty, which I would have liked to see), then have Daenerys decide to turn back east with her three dragons to continue the good fight after concluding that Essos has never felt like home, but it was where she did put the effort to build trees, while Westeros was the dream and home of her ancestors, who do not need to wholly define her. It is the end of the Targaryen dynasty, but not with her death. Why I’d choose an ending like this: 1) The circular ending matches show!Jon’s, whose ending I thought would be fitting for book!Jon’s as well; 2) She ends her journey being more critical of external influences and more aware of her needs and actual experiences instead of simply taking on Viserys’ and her ancestors’ dreams to find an ultimately failed sense of belonging. She’s the one in charge of her journey from now on, which is an existential victory of sorts. The continent where she made and can still make a difference is Essos, and she’ll return aware of that, and with a more realistic and resilient sense of purpose; 3) It emphasizes her role as a queen and a revolutionary, not only as a savior (to people who have been in the abstract for her for most of her life); 4) It won’t be a totally happy ending. She’ll be left scarred from the events she witnessed in Westeros, from the burning of King’s Landing to the fight against the Others to the rejection she experiences from the lords and smallfolk alike. She’ll always feel like she needs to atone for her mistakes and she’ll be another Targaryen queen who failed. She still won’t have found a place and people to call her “home”. 5) That being said, she’s alive, in a position of power, more aware of herself and her place in the world and with the possibility of continuing to do good. And she’s also mentally stable and a hero, far from a villain.

So, what did you think? Do you think there are double standards against Daenerys in the books as well, especially in regards to how the inevitability of the wars is framed? What did you think of my observations about the (likely) upcoming burning of King’s Landing? Would you rather have her sit on the Iron Throne, go back to Essos or something else entirely? Please tell me what you think! I really enjoy your posts and they are the reason why I felt the need to gather my thoughts.