#and not a character the duffers created to do specific gay things in a specific context

[wakeupthemembersofbylernation]

I think Mike forgot to take into consideration that he was straight when he stared at Will’s lips 😔

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

It's so annoying to see people in the tag comparing Byler to other queer ships that didn't happen like no Byler is unique and wasn't made by bad writers. Idk if you were in one of those fandoms but it would be amazing if you could explain to all those people why Byler was written differently because I am tired of the classic: "they are queerbaiting you,deal with it". I am like :" wow they queerbaited the Lgbt+ community and the heterosexuals too then because a huge majority of the GA audiences who see Byler aren't from the Lgbt+ community". They also made the "main" ship do unlikeable that it lost at least 40% of their supporters between season 3 and season 4.

Well, I can see where they're coming from, even if I don't agree.

I have never been involved in a fandom before, but I have been a fan of shows/movies where I thought "so and so would make a good couple" only for nothing to come of it. I've said it before, and I'll say it again, though. This is the first time I've ever thought it was going to happen, and I've felt that way since season 2. Each season since has left me disappointed, as I don't want it to be a final episode "twist" in order to avoid losing fans, but it's still only become more and more obvious to me that it's inevitable.

I think a lot of fans get caught up in headcanons, particularly between seasons. As a result, they end up forgetting what is actually canon, and they create elaborate predictions that just don't fit the reality.

Yes, queerbaiting is a thing. I'm not familiar with many of the fandoms that this is used with, but I'll give the fans the benefit of the doubt on it. If a show hints at a queer couple, that's not enough for it to be queerbaiting. But if they continually build it up, only for it to go nowhere, then it might be. If they actively use it as a means to market the show, then it definitely is.

Without knowing more about specific fandoms, it's hard for me to make any direct comparisons. I suppose, should, somehow, Byler not be endgame, then I'll probably understand a lot better. However, I will also be extremely confused and will have lost considerable respect for the Duffers as writers.

However, Byler is a unique animals, as far as I can tell. It's something that has had seeds planted to it from the very beginning of the show. It's not some response to fans that the producers felt they could then exploit for marketing/merchandising purposes. It may not have been obvious back in season 1, but the clues were there. There was no retconning done to make Byler fit. There was no sly stoking of the flames in the fandom to get fans excited about it. That all happened organically as more and more people caught on.

I don't think the Duffers are dumb. They built a slowburn same-sex romance between main characters over the course of an entire top-tier series. As much as it annoyed me that it's taken this long, it does make the most sense, both in-universe and as a matter of mass appeal. Both the fans and the characters themselves had to come to terms with teen boys falling in love in the 80s. That's not something to be rushed if it's to be taken seriously.

Will, the one we've been told was gay, has come to terms with his feelings, only to come to the conclusion that it's not meant to be.

Mike, the one we've seen to have more-than-friendly feelings for Will, is still not ready, yet.

Season 5 will be the catalyst for Mike to realize what his deep feelings for Will really mean, so he can show Will that love is something for him to experience.

[will80sbyers]

i think ppl expect mike to have a sexuality storyline similar to will's or robin's. but tbh with the visual framing and textual elements it seems that mike is more like vickie. we didn't exactly get a specific confirmation on vickie's sexuality but we know she had a boyfriend and she also has a thing for robin, so she's coded and portrayed to be bisexual. like, idk. i don't think mike's gonna get an explicit sexuality confirmation, he's put in vickie's position this season and that's like the heaviest parallel we've gotten.

i am open to other interpretations and readings ofc but i am mostly talking about how show is portraying this situation from what Ive seen and Im trying to think from the writers' POV. Like, I think the set up here was to show that not everyone is hetero just bc they're in a hetero relationship, so mike is put in vickie's position bc of that and also implying mike's bisexuality. it also seems like something the duffers would do to me like idk lmao. i think they created vickie to be bisexual bc they already had robin as a lesbian rep. and will has always been their gay rep from the very start, it is even written in his character pitch and description. so like. it makes sense for them to show mike as a bi or code him as such.

totally agree, I think the text of the show is pointing more to the bi coding for Mike and Vickie is there also to serve that purpose, because if you notice if someone starts saying something about byler you can reply using ALL the other straight ships + Vobin to show them how they are wrong like:

"It doesn't make sense that Mike likes Will too, he's straight!"

-> look at Vickie and Robin, bisexuality exists

"It doesn't make sense, Mike liked El!!!"

-> look at Nancy, Steve and Jonathan, Nancy liked Steve too but she's more compatible with Jonathan and she fell in love with him

"But Mike was already in a relationship he can't have a crush on Will!!!"

-> look at Joyce, she had a crush on Hopper when she was dating Bob

"Mike and El are the most conventional choice they should let Mike be straight because he would be happier!! It's not realistic they are just going to be miserable because they are gay and will get hate from people!!!"

-> would you say the same thing looking at Max and Lucas? because their relationship would be considered as very difficult to navigate for the time if we were being completely "realistic" because of all the racist people in the 80s

[kaleidoscopic-quiddity]

how likely i think it is for each stranger things character to die in s4 vol.2

the adults:

hopper: impossible. no way they’d go to all that effort of having him bust out of prison only to kill him off again at the end of the season, it just wouldnt make any narrative sense and would feel really cheap considering he’s already ‘died’ once

joyce: highly unlikely but not completely ruled out. on one hand, im like ‘who tf is gonna kill off winona ryder’s character?’ but on the other hand, i can see stranger things pulling a httyd2 and going ‘you got one parent back so now the other one dies’. ultimately though i think joyce is too inconic a character to kill off before like, the s5 finale, if at all

murray: a decent possibility. his character’s in that sweet spot of being important enough that his death would impact both the narrative and the audience, but not so important that the story wouldnt function or be the same without him. i wont be surprised if he dies, i wont be surprised if he survives

brenner: god i fucking hope so. i think it’d be really cathartic for el to kill him and to finally put her past and his abuse behind her, but i also think killing off a character in the same season you brought them back to life is a really cheap writing move so im not wholly convinced. it seems like the nina project lab/bunker gets blown up so i wouldnt be shocked if he gets a ‘redemption’ death where he sacrifices himself for el

owens: fairly unlikely but it could happen. like brenner i can see him having a death where he sacrifices himself for el, but he’s also the link the rest of the cast have to the military which is a useful plot device so killing him off might create more problems for the writers room

the older teens:

nancy: highly unlikely. the trailers certainly make it seem like she’ll survive until the finale and i really don’t see any narrative reason to kill her off other than shock value, so i highly doubt that she’ll die, but i do think that she’ll experience something personally traumatic again

robin: also highly unlikely. same deal as nancy, i see no narrative reason for her to die other than shock value, also i think the duffers are probably aware of the ‘bury your gays’ trope and how potentially bad it could look for them to kill her off 

steve: concerningly likely. hes a fan favourite, his deat would undoubtedly have an impact on the audience and the plot, especially dustin’s character. him dying is also a tidy way of avoiding a full rehashing of the nancy/jonathan/steve love triangle. i can definitely see him confessing his love to nancy and then dying before she gets a chance to respond, overlapping with her trauma surrounding barb’s death and setting up her arc for season 5. however, steve is an iconic character and pretty important to the narrative, so im not wholly convinced that he’ll be killed off either, but it feels more likely than not

eddie: it could go either way. the vol 2 trailers definitely imply that something happens to him, but interviews with joseph quinn and the duffers possibly suggest that he’ll be around for season 5. his death would also have a similar impact on dustin’s character as steve dying would, setting up a potential future emotional arc for him, and it would provide a neat solution to the ‘okay but how do we clear eddie’s name after we defeat vecna?’ problem. his arc this season has been about how he feels guilty for ‘running away’ so i could see him having a hero moment where he sacrifices his life for the rest of the group/dustin specifically. but also, he’s been a total hit with fans and is just genuinely such a fun character that i think it’d be a real waste to kill him off so soon

argyle: pretty unlikely. stranger things does like killing off characters in the same season theyre introduced but i see no narratively satisfying reason for him to be the one to die. i dont necessarily think he’ll be in season 5 but i’d put that down to the byers’ likely moving back to hawkins. i mean he might die, but i’d be surprised

jonathan: highly unlikely but not impossible. it’d add another mark to the will trauma tally, and just like steve dying it would resolve the love triangle plot line, plus it could also create some tension with joyce’s character in season 5 with her being unwilling to accept his death. however, jonathan’s arc this season is about finding himself and accepting that his mom and will can look after themselves, so think having him die would be really unsatisfying. also just like joyce, steve, and nancy, he’s been a major character since season 1 and i just can’t really see him dying without a good death flag establishment period first

jason: fairly likely. steve’s character was originally an asshole jock who was gonna die in season 1, which i feel like may have been re-written into jason’s character in season 4. we’ve already seen that lucas rocks his shit at the creel house so i dont think its a strech to suggest that he might get vecna’d, i think it would make narrative sense since there seems to be a build up to him getting some ‘karma’ for inciting violence against eddie and the hellfire club, but that karma might just be lucas whooping his ass

the party:

mike: i highly doubt it. despite his supreme assholery the past two season i feel that mike is too much of main character to kill off just like that. especially since i dont think that theres been any particular hints towards him dying this season (or at all) and that his character arc still has too much left for him to do and resolve for him to die now

dustin: not happening. even moreso than mike his death would make absolutely no narrative sense and he’s way too much of a fan favourite and iconic part of the show to ever kill

lucas: no way. just like mike and dustin, hes just too crucial to the core plot and ‘vibe’ of stranger things to kill off. also, killing the only main character of colour would be a bad fuckin look for the duffers and st creatives team and i think they know that

will: super unlikely but not 100% ruled out. will’s the only member of the OG party who i think might just posibly have a tiny chance of dying. but even then i think that chance is like, less than 1%. his character arc still has so much left to do and i think he’s too crucial to the upsidedown lore to have him die in s4 vol 2 or even at all. also i am a total ‘will has powers and has been the main character all along’ truther so i also just really dont want him to die

el: impossible. there wouldnt be a stranger things without her, shes literally the single most iconic part of the franchise. and it wouldn’t make any sense at all to kill her in the resolution of s4′s narrative and then leave a gaping hole in the set up for s5

max: it’s probably more of a possibility than i’d like to admit. on one hand, i think killing her off after having this beautiful, powerful moment of her overcoming her trauma and allowing herself to be vulnerable would be cheap as hell, on the other, i can’t deny that she’s had the most death flags raised out of any party member this season. i think her arc needs to be resolved vis a vi her surviving the vecna ordeal, reconnceting with her friends and opening up to them, and beggining to accept/process her grief, guilt, and resentment surrounding billy, but i do also think that her death could be done in a, not necessarily satisfying way, but an definitely impactful one

bonus round:

erica: almost certainly not. in the nicest way possible, i dont think she’s been important enough this season for her to get killed off. her death would be good for shock value but it’s serve no narrative purpose in my opinon so i can’t see it happening

karen: like maybe?? the trailers suggest that something is going down in hawkins that puts her and holly (and maybe ted?) in danger, and i do think her dying could be interesting for nancy and mike’s dynamic and character arcs, but like erica i just kinda wonder whether she’s important enough to get killed off??

antonov: fairly likely. i definitely dont think he’ll be a major player in s5 so either he dies or runs away from the prison to reunite with his son mikhail. i think he’s grown to be well liked enough by hopper and the audience that his death would be a good tug on the heartstrings, but i also wonder why set up that stuff about him wanting to be a good dad if the plan was always just to have him die?

[kaypeace21]

i’m a survivor too, and i found that certain scenes/stuff will said just really struck me as ‘csa-survivor’-like? i felt a bit uncomfortable about headcanoning it happening to someone else, especially for a fandom as wild as this one, but your metas have really been a comfort to me because they’ve been able to pick out and explain things that i couldn’t necessarily find the words for myself.

and yeah, i would love to have a character like me that is powerful and who finds love and who gets a happy ending. the people who call the theory disgusting always kinda hit wrong with me because although csa is a difficult subject, we shouldn’t be ashamed about sharing it. they sound like they’re trying to say that it’s a bad topic to talk about and implying that it can’t happen to kids, which uhhhhh-

(i’m sure that’s not what they mean, precisely, but it’s still what they sound like, and i wish that they would stop implying that we can’t exist, especially in popular media. we do, and i’m not gonna pretend we don’t, and if they feel uncomfortable with the topic they can just use the block button. we deserve to have some well written representation just as much as anyone else. also, i really really hope that will gets a happy ending.)

anywayyyy i love your theories and i can see your post in the tag so i think you’re fine?? have a good day ❤️❤️❤️

SORRY, this ask took so long to respond to. It always warms my heart to hear other survivors speak and say they found comfort in my theory.

Yes, I think I and a lot of c*a/r*pe victims (subconscious or otherwise) were triggered by some of the symbolism/visuals in s1-3. And s3 made it hard for most of us to ignore the past imagery- since s3 wasn’t as subtle.

I get why people have reservations about the theory. But the debates to the contrary are usually just plain offensive. Or people trying to be respectful but being the opposite. There’s the obvious bad-apples . I got many anons after part 1 of my DID theory saying it “ruined/tainted byler”, and “if that happened to Will i’ll stop shipping byler” , or that it  “ruins the best gay character” ,  and to “remove the post immediately”. And this was when I was open about being a gay c*a victim. I obviously blocked them. Many survivors don’t come forward because they’re afraid people will see them as “tainted”, “ruined”, “ just their trauma”, or blame them for what happened. So yeah, it pisses me off when people say similar stuff about Will (and thus other c*a victims). Not even diving into the messed up psychology about byler/mileven shippers (knowing i was a lesbian c*a victim) but purposely spreading bs rumors about me being a p*do that was into Will/Noah-all because of the theory. -_-

Then there’s the people who try to be “respectful” but literally do the opposite.

I’ve heard numerous times it’s somehow “less offensive” to just use r*pe imagery to make monsters scary. Rather than have  the monsters have that imagery cause Will created the monsters from his memory/imagination-and st is a story of Will healing from that trauma. SORRY- I disagree. Using the worst experiences of peoples’ lives (and triggering their trauma) for no real purpose- except to make their monsters scarier to the normal/general audience who haven’t gone through it so won’t be triggered like us - is MORE OFFENSIVE to victims! NOT LESS! At least to me.

Then there’s the people who say “c*a should never be talked about (in stories).” Which I disagree with. V*ctims have already been told by ab*ser’s  and enablers of the ab*ser- to never talk about what happened to us  . So it rubs A LOT of us the wrong way when people say this.  Because (subconscious or not) you remind some of us of the people who used to hurt/silence us. People say this -simply for their convenience (like ab*sers) and cause deep down they’re uncomfortable with our existence and equate the despicable act to us the innocent v*ctim ...or just want to deny the horrible reality of the situation (like many enablers who deny the truth and hurt us because they don’t want to accept reality) . And 1) It brings us back to a time where they told us to NEVER talk about it- and makes us feel like we did something wrong when we didn’t! 2) Every psych professional says with-holding/keeping the ab*se a secret is detrimental to our mental health.

Plus, there’s a HUGE difference between sugarcoating/minimizing trauma or WORSE glamorizing, condoning, or romanticizing C*A in stories (ex: pretty little liars) VS showing how the action is wrong, causes trauma, but showing recovery and happiness is still possible for v*ctims.  if the story shows how accurately traumatizing it is (instead of minimizing/glamorizing it)- it’s incredibly rare for that character to get a happy ending. Having a story about recovering from that type of trauma and finding happiness despite such hardships would be amazing for US survivors! We rarely get stories with a happy ending-  it’s more harmful to us survivors to never see ourselves get happy endings in tv/film/books. How can some survivors (in a dark place) think there’s a light at the end of the tunnel- if it’s never shown?Also if Will has DID too- it’s good mental health rep, along with queer rep (and survivor’s rep.) All 3 groups rarely are treated well or get happy endings in media. A lot of people may feel more heard, seen, and a bit more hopeful for the future - If Will (and other characters) get a happy ending.

And even though st has many themes- like say homophobia. To try and hand-wave all the disturbing  r*pe imagery away  as ‘Will is just gay so the monsters are like that”. IS SOOOOOO offensive. Trigger warning for examples. I’m sorry what part of Max saying when Billy had c*nsensual s*x it’s “good screams” but when possessed by the mf he causes Heather to do “bad screams” read as gay???! Having the possessed ch*ke/dr*g people before throwing them in trunks (like it’s implied Lonnie did to Will -since Jonathan checked Lonnie’s trunk for Will in s1)?Tying their arms and legs up/ g*ging  them and  getting on top of them and saying “stay VERY still it’ll all be over soon”-before a monster shoves it’s tentacle into someone’s mouth and inserts a goo - just gay??? Similar to the sentient vine/shadow monster forcing itself down Will’s throat. Let alone Will saying things like “he made me do it”, “i felt it everywhere”, or being tied to a bed and screaming “help! stop! it hurts! let me go!” While Jonathan is the only one who’s visibly triggered by this and has to literally turn away and hug someone . Or barb, billy, and El spiting up a white liquid from their mouth (similar to will spitting up a slug and lying to his mother about it ).El/billy touching a suspicious looking slime with their hand and looking at the substance confused . El drawing Papa with 3 legs (the middle one being shorter) ,  trying to undress in front of the boys , and Benny saying “I think she’s been ab*sed or something”.The theme of ab*sive dads- brenner , Lonnie, and Neil . Even when the demogorgan (called in d&d the “deep father”/ in the show “a man without a face”) attacked Barb it’s chopped up with scenes of Nancy having c*nsensual sex (the monsters are doing the opposite symbolically). There’s way more examples but NO- to try and hand wave /equate ALL OF THIS to just “gay imagery” or an “a*ds metaphor” is WAY more problematic. And just offensive (specifically to gay people) than just admitting what it may actually represent. R*pe imagery and gay imagery is NOT THE SAME THING!

Also ST has never been a kid show- maybe rewatch the show and see the rating of tv-14 . Goodness sake- s1 has a st*ged su*icde, k*dnappings, m*rder, discussions of physics, h*mophobia, and s*x (with stancy in s1 & jancy in s2-s3). S2/3 discuss at their finalies recovering from tra*ma . S2 had gra*ic de*ths,  a man causing a women br*in damage/ and faking her m*scarriage, and a gang of vigalantes k*lling criminals. s3 had critiques on capitalism /media/s*xism, many d*eaths, and questionable imagery like the prior seasons. The Duffers constantly reference  movies & events from the 80s (capitalizing on 80s nostalgia /subverting 80s motifs that middle age people  from that time remember)! Those people were their intended age demographic . Most 80s centric refs go over most kids’ heads (heck a lot went over my head too since I wasn’t alive in the 80s XD).The Duffers even said in the book “worlds turned upsidedown”  “it’s not a kid’s show despite having kids”. And maybe it’s a coincidence but when Lucas in s3 hands Will the “devil’s baby” firework (a hint about Lonnie) he says “18 and over only.” Which idk is a weird/random af line unless it’s foreshadowing that the show will get darker about various themes- and maybe even change ratings.

I get people wishing nothing bad ever happened to Will or Jonathan. And being apprehensive and not trusting the Duffers to do such a story justice (cause it’s difficult to do). But personally i trust them to do so tastefully with tact and not be exp*itative, (overly gr*fic) or offensive to v*ctims. You can disagree and think the show is about something else (or not trust the Duffers)- but it’d be great if people could stop using these other messed up talking points. While trying to appear ‘(fake) woke’ and like they care for victims- cause we see through it that you really don’t.

Have a lovely day anon ❤️ ❤️ ❤️

Update- I just really agreed with and appreciate the tags in this reblog

[strangertheory]

We can't know what we don't know.

The value of skepticism in fandom discourse

I worry that the Stranger Things fandom often allows the development of fan-canons and false absolutes in between seasons that might be destructive to certain fans' long-term enjoyment and appreciation of the series.

We can't know what we don't know.

And if we forget this and begin to construct expectations for what might happen next in the story that are too deeply rooted in our hearts: we are setting ourselves up for disappointment and this is not the fault of the Duffer Brothers or the writing team. This is our fault as individuals and as a community.

Stranger Things has three completed seasons, a fourth season currently in production, and an intended fifth and final season.

We are only a little beyond the halfway point in this larger story.

The halfway point.

A lot can happen in the span of two final seasons.

The writing team probably intends to maintain thematic and narrative intentions across all five seasons. The Duffer Brothers have spoken of having an ending in mind for the story for a long time. (”We’ve known the ending for a while.” - Matt Duffer) But we, the fans, cannot truly know what those plans are until the credits roll on the final episode of the final season.

And yet there is a stubborn certainty that many fans engage in between seasons and that I worry has been growing and spreading worse than usual during season 4′s production delays.

In spite of having only just surpassed the middle point of a story arc that’s being told over the span of five seasons, many fans declare that they "definitely know" that certain relationships between characters won't change. That certain characters will "definitely" survive. That certain rumored future story arcs (based on audition tapes, fan speculation, interviews with the cast) will "definitely happen." That certain characters are "definitely straight" or that certain characters are “definitely gay.”

I believe that there is value in seeking to understand and predict events in a story. Appreciating the way that skilled storytellers use foreshadowing, symbolism, narrative parallels, metaphor, lighting and camera angles, music, and other creative tools when putting together a show like Stranger Things is thrilling. I love debating the relevance of certain details to an author’s larger intentions and long-term vision for their story and characters. I believe that skilled writers should plant clues throughout the earlier moments in a narrative so that plot twists are surprising and yet also also have us slapping our knees declaring “Oh, look! All the signs were there from the beginning! Well played.” Some writers start off without a particular end-goal in mind and allow the characters to lead them there as they develop, however we know that this is not entirely the case for the Duffer Brothers and that they have an ending in mind that they have been building towards.

Authors can also make poor writing decisions that contradict the internal logic and implications of their own universe. Writers and creative teams are not infallible. Productions have constraints and behind-the-scenes pressures, challenges, and limitations that might sometimes result in a less cohesive narrative. I don't believe that's the case with Stranger Things but this can and does happen.

But I always keep in mind that this story is not mine. I am fully capable of being incorrect in my analysis and predictions regarding what might happen next.

My theories and predictions (that Mike has romantic feelings for Will, and that Stranger Things is perhaps intended to be about a dissociated system and internal worlds etc.) are not shared by the majority of the fan community. 

I question the logic of my thoughts constantly because I am prompted to do so any time I share my unusual theories and ideas with other fans. Because my ideas are strange and less popular I am well aware of my need to provide evidence and logic when offering them to other fans for consideration.

If your ideas regarding what is happening in Stranger Things are shared by the majority of fans: how often do you question your expectations?

Do you think that you question them often enough? Are you allowing yourself to become complacent and to assume that because a large majority of your fandom community agrees with your interpretation of certain plot-points and characters that you absolutely must be correct in your understanding of Stranger Things?

I have seen how emotionally attached many fans are to their own preferred understanding of the story. Many fans greet alternative understandings that conflict with their own ideas with a lot of hostility and protest.

I want to warn all fans against closing their imaginations off to the story taking a different route than what they’ve carved into their hearts.

Fans that like less popular ships or that indulge in the discussion of fringe hypotheticals and unique theories are second-guessing and questioning themselves every day and I think for that reason we are better prepared for disappointment than fans that have allowed themselves to believe in characters, ships, and plot-points being “definite” or “canon” or “endgame” simply because the majority of other fans share (and reinforce) those same assumptions.

I worry when I see large fan-made accounts on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, and Tumblr that post a constant stream of content that reinforces very specific fan-canons that are not yet absolute and yet are still favored and embraced as inevitabilities.

Do fans truly believe that nothing might surprise them in the last half of the story? Do fans believe that we know everything about these characters, their relationships with one another, and this sci fi universe by this point in the show? Does this attitude seem reasonable?

The constant consumption of our favorite fan-cams, fanart, and fan-canons creates echo chambers reinforcing our current assumptions about characters, character relationships, and presumed future plotlines. Just because a fan-run Stranger Things account with over a million followers posts about a specific ship constantly and this is what you are seeing on your phone every morning it doesn’t mean that this account knows what is going to happen in the story any more than you do. We need to be wary of allowing ourselves to lose our objectivity and our awareness that this story is in the hands of the Duffer Brothers and the Stranger Things writing team and that nothing that fans expect (or, god forbid, rudely demand) is guaranteed. The twisted idea that creators are in any way obligated to pander to their current fanbase is absurd to me when you consider that this is their creation, and additionally when you consider that the series will exist for future fans long after the majority of current fans abandon it. 

I want the entire Stranger Things fandom to enjoy the journey, to enjoy uncertainty, and to look forward to finding out what happens next. I don’t want fans setting themselves up for disappointment by stubbornly insisting that their interpretation of what is happening in the story is absolutely correct when the story is not over yet.

If the Stranger Things fan community can allow itself to be open to being wrong I think we will all enjoy the story a lot more and continue enjoying the story no matter what. The creators behind Stranger Things are very talented and I believe they are telling a very well-crafted story. I only hope that the fandom will appreciate it and that we haven’t stubbornly built walls around our own desires that will prevent us from enjoying an excellent story if it contradicts our expectations in the next few seasons.

I know that if I look forward to the thrill of discovering something new about my favorite characters in future seasons that I will rarely be disappointed.

I hope we all continue opening new curiosity doors and try to avoid setting our hearts on specific expectations.

[morkhan]

Will Byers is Gay: The Evidence So Far

With the release of Stranger Things 3, there has been a lot of discussion kicked up about the character of Will Byers and his sexuality (or lack thereof). I've seen a lot of takes about what "it's not my fault you don't like girls" was intended to mean, many of which seem to take it in isolation, so I wanted to make a post putting it into what I think is its proper context; not an isolated incident, but the latest carriage in veritable train of queer themed language and imagery that has followed Will Byers since episode one of season one, and before that. You ready? Alright, let's go.

Season Zero: the Montauk Files

Before Stranger Things became Stranger Things, it was called Montauk. Like many would-be show makers, the Duffer Bros put together a "show bible" describing the premise, setting, tone, and characters of the show they intended to make. Like many shows, a lot of these ideas changed or were lost on their way to the screen, but it's always worth looking into their original concepts. Here is their description of Will Byers in the Montauk show bible:

Obviously, the major whammy there is in the first line "sexual identity issues." But there are some other interesting notes, like his "colorful clothes" that you might want to keep a lookout for on your next rewatch. Now, onto...

Season 1

The thing to pay attention to regarding Will in season 1 is in the language used to refer to him when he is not present (which he isn't for most of the season).

Episode 1: the subject of bullying comes up right away in the conversation between Joyce and Hopper. "The kids, they're mean. They laugh at him, laugh at his clothes, call him names." "What's wrong with his clothes?" "I don't know!" This harkens back to the Montauk show bible, but it's arguable, since it's never made clear what about his clothes draws ire.

She also mentions that he is "sensitive," "not like most," and that his dad said he was "queer" and called him a "fag." Hopper asks "is he?" to which she replies "He's missing is what he is!"

Episode 3: Troy says he's not missing, he's dead. "Probably killed by some other queer."

Episode 4: Troy, again "Will's in fairyland, flying around with all the other little fairies, all happy and gay."

Sensitive, queer, fag, fairy, and gay are all used to describe Will in season 1, but perhaps more notable is the fact that they aren't used to describe anyone else. If the show were truly period accurate, let's be real; the whole party would've been called queers on a pretty regular basis, because "queer" doubled as a generic insult back then. But in season 1, these words are only ever used in relation to Will, with one exception; in episode 6, Steve says to Will's brother, "I used to think you were queer." So it's not even an active accusation in that moment; it's used in the negative.

Hell, Troy walked up to Lucas mockingly proposing to Mike and proclaiming his love for him, and he still didn't call them queers. That language is reserved for Will.

Now granted, most of these are used as insults by characters who don't like Will, but still; as a writer, if you want your audience to remember something, repetition is an excellent way to embed it in their minds. There's a reason for the specificity of language surrounding Will, and a reason that language keeps coming up over and over and over again.

Season 2

Season 2 retires much of the homophobic language used to insult Will, replacing it with "Zombie Boy." The only homophobic language used in season 2 is the word "faggot," used by Billy's father to refer to Billy, who expresses a clear interest in women (and an arguable interest in one particular man, but that's the subject of another post).

Still, there is an arguable bit of queer theming in Will's conversation with Jonathan regarding the benefits of being a "freak" and how normal people never accomplish anything. Jonathan even invokes bisexual icon David Bowie to make Will feel better about his "freakishness."

The clearest piece of queer theming for Will in season 2 comes in episode 8, in this beautiful speech from Joyce to Possessed Will:

"When you turned eight, I gave you that huge box of crayons, do you remember that? It was 120 colors. And all your friends got you Star Wars toys, but all you wanted to do was draw with all your new colors. And you drew this big spaceship, but it wasn't from a movie. It was YOUR spaceship; a RAINBOW Ship, that's what you called it. And you, you must have used every color in the box. I took that with me to Melvald's, and I put it up. I told everyone who came in, 'My son drew this.' And you were so embarrassed, but I was so proud. I was so, so proud."

This is one of the most powerful memories of her son that Joyce has, an image so strong and distinct that she uses it to invoke his true identity against the monster that is slowly subsuming him. She notes very specifically that it's not something he copied, but something that came entirely from Will himself, an image that she felt represented him so perfectly that she took it with her to work and proudly touted it as his to everyone she knew. The Rainbow Ship is Joyce's picture of her son's very heart, and surely I don't need to explain to you how powerful a piece of queer imagery the rainbow is.

Some subtextual stuff; in episode 9, when the girl asks Will to dance, he stammers "I... I don't..." and only goes to dance with her when Mike literally pushes him towards her.

During the final montage, the scene cuts to different characters in time with appropriate lines from the song: "every move you make" cuts to Mike and El (as he is teaching her to dance), "every vow you break" cuts to Nancy dancing with Dustin (as she technically cheated on Steve with Jonathan), "I'll be watching you" cuts to Lucas dancing with Max (as she has playfully called him 'stalker' all season). What line cuts to Will? "Every smile you fake," specifically on the word fake, while Will dances with a girl wearing this expression:

That is not a real smile, that is not a comfortable boy, and that is not an accident; Noah Schnapp is one of the best actors in the entire show, and of the young boys, he is the one the Duffers trust most to do dramatic heavy lifting.

Do you want it to be a little more explicit? Okay, here is that scene in the script:

I mean, that pretty much speaks for itself. It's less explicit in the actual show, but it's still there, you know?

Season 3

And now, the biggest and most explicit thing to date; The Scene. I mean, you could discuss the obvious subtext in the simple fact that Will is the only male main character who has yet to find a girlfriend or express any interest in girls whatsoever, but that pales in comparison to The Scene.

The setup for The Scene is pretty simple; after declaring "a day free of girls" in order to get his friends to run the D&D campaign he's probably spent a significant amount of time creating, his friends have blown him off to continue bemoaning their girl troubles, so Will has decided to leave. Mike, realizing too late that he has genuinely upset his friend, chases after him to try and get him to come back.

A back-and-forth argument ensues, where Will accuses Mike of ruining the party and abandoning his friends in favor of girls, and Mike, in the heat of the moment, responds with "It's not my fault you don't like girls!" After which, everything stops. There is a full second of silence, and a close up on Noah Schnapp's face so you can take in his reaction.

There is a lot to unpack here. Now, acting is up to interpretation to a degree, but to me, that expression conveys two primary emotions; shock, and betrayal. That face says "how could you?" Because here's the thing; regardless of what Mike does or doesn't know about Will's sexuality, Mike knows for a fact that Will has been called a queer all his life by everyone from his school bullies to his own fucking dirtbag father. By invoking even the specter of that, Mike has crossed a fucking line, and he knows it. And we know he knows it, because he immediately backtracks and tries to mitigate the damage. But it's too late. The damage has been done.

I also think there is a tinge of fear in that image. Just a moment of soul raking panic that pretty much every closeted queer person knows intimately. It's very brief. But I think it's there, if you look.

This scene sends Will into an emotional tailspin that culminates in him tearing down the literal last bastion of his childhood in a fit of sorrow and rage. His innocence has been destroyed. He cannot regain what he has lost, and he can never go back to the way things were before. This is the emotional climax of his arc for season three. It's a powerful one-- shame it comes in the third of eight episodes, but that's neither here nor there.

And that's pretty much it for now. Any one of these things taken in isolation could be very easily dismissed, but here's the thing; they aren't isolated incidents. They are part of a clear and consistent pattern, one that goes all the way back to the show's inception, before even one minute of footage was filmed. And this pattern points to one very obvious conclusion; the Duffer Brothers have always intended, and continue to intend, for Will Byers to be gay.

Now, for the obvious question; why haven't they made it explicit yet?

The answer is as unfortunate as it is obvious; I don't know.

It's entirely possible that there is some external force that the Duffers have to answer to that is preventing them from actively pursuing this particular storyline. This happens all the time in Hollywood, and it could be anything from Netflix to Noah Schnapp's parents to Noah Schnapp himself just being uncomfortable with it. Many are the creators who dream Big Gay Dreams only to run into the horrors of our Forced Hetero Reality. If the Duffers ultimately submit to these pressures, I hope you won't be too hard on them. This shit is harder than you think to get to the screen sometimes.

But it's also possible that they just aren't ready for it yet. That they have been saving this for a future storyline, that they just want their characters (and the actors) to get a little older before they pursue this particular storyline explicitly, but they've been busily laying groundwork for it so that anyone paying attention will know it's coming.

I don't know. Only time will tell for sure.

For now, I can tell you this; I see a great deal of evidence that the Duffers still intend for Will to be gay, and precisely zero that they have changed their minds.

I hope that holds true.

[biillyhargroves]

Here’s a hot take: Billy Hargrove’s redemption arc would have been too difficult for the Dufflebag brothers to write. They knew we wanted it but they don’t know how to write a teenage boy going from an abusive household learning how to love himself and others. They didn’t know how to handle the problems they gave Billy. Then people thought he was gay and they definitely didn’t know how to add that in either.

I think it’s less that such a storyline would be too difficult for them, especially given that they’ve written abuse victims in other forms rather well - Jonathan was emotionally abused by his father, Joyce also appeared to be emotionally abused by Lonnie, Eleven was physically and emotionally abused by Dr. Brenner and his team, El’s mother was also abused by the same group, and to a lesser extent Billy abused Max by treating her how his father treated him. Out of those characters, Terry Ives was the only one “unable” to overcome her abuse, and that was because she had been tortured to the point of brain damage and genuinely couldn’t. I also feel that the Duffers handled Billy’s background rather well within the limited scope of season three. (I’m also willing to concede that I have a different opinion of the Duffers than you do and that you might feel differently about these points, which is totally okay! This is just how I feel, personally.)

I think it’s more so that they didn’t care to write such a storyline for Billy specifically. 

While I adore the Duffers and their talent, this is an aspect of their story-telling that I don’t agree with. Let me explain: The Duffers wanted a human villain for the younger cast. Their initial plan was to cast Steve in that role, but Joe Keery was charming and had such excellent chemistry with the main cast that they scrapped that idea altogether. They ushered Billy in as a replacement, and they explicitly stated that they had no intentions of another Steve situation. Billy was never going to be redeemed on a large scale, no matter how much audiences loved him and no matter how charming the actor was, and no matter how good his chemistry was with any of the original cast members. It wasn’t an option.

I think that they got tunnel-visioned into thinking of Billy as the villain they wanted, and it limited the character that Billy became. I’ve talked before about how the Duffers are story-based writers. Their characters are tools. Billy’s job was to be villainous, no matter how he got there, and when he fulfilled that purpose they gave him as heroic a death as they saw fit and bid him adieu. It’s not how I would have written things, and I personally feel that introducing an in-depth backstory for him warrants further exploration into that backstory, especially given that abuse is a heavy theme within the show, he has a strong connection to Max who is becoming a more prominent character, and his experiences in season three give him stronger connections to Will and Eleven which would have been neat to explore. I see a lot of missed opportunities that probably would have been considered in a character-based universe (and I guess I should I note that I’m a very character based writer, so I’m biased in terms of that as well as being biased as a fan of Billy).  We’re in a story-based universe, and the Duffers felt that Billy had fulfilled his purpose within the story. 

I wish that they had put more effort into his character. But this is the manner in which they write and I can’t fault another writer for writing their story as they choose. They’ve created an incredible universe and filled it with interesting, thoughtful characters. When they are so focused on the story at large, I think it’s inevitable that some fans are going to wish they had gotten more out of X or Y character at some point. And, at the end of the day, that’s why we have fan fiction! To play around with what could have been, to explore characters that resonate with us, and to play in the sandbox the Duffers built. 

[sseroxy]

Things I want/predict from Stranger Things 4

Most is El because shes my queen and there's a lot going on with her

Joyce learning/teaching her kids how to fight melee, with weapons, and guns

Please give El a gun now that she has no powers

Will talked about his trauma, let El do it now. She never really talked about the messed up stuff that happened to her because of fear, pain, and language issues so please let her talk to Joyce or Jonathan or Will I beg

Will needs to talk more as well

Specifically let El and Will just use each other as a venting unit, a healthy way of talking cause they both have similar trauma and might even feel they’re the only ones they can talk to. They have a bunch of similarities (like being a punching bag apparently)

Jonathan and El big bro lil sis relayionship PLEASE

Will and El being very close

Idk why but I want El to put the adoption papers from Hopper in a frame and hang it on her wall

Also have her wear Hoppers shirts/hat, but in her own stylish ways like wearing them around her waist or like she did in the “three months later” thing where it was kinda brought up like a crop top

More LuMax!

The boys being boys and talking

Robin and Steve trying to get dates Aka Steve the wingman

Dustin and Suzie get to meet

If it's Thanksgiving, put them all together like a happy family for once jeez

bring hopper back cowards

More girl time with El and Max

El and Will realizing they missed out on their childhood and just doing child things together

El keeping her door open 3 inches

Max leaves home or the parents split

El learns more about *cough* hormones and puberty (y'all can thank that scene with Max and "happy screams" along with the lingerie store the boys saw)

The Duffers confirm whether or not Will is gay, bc I'm sick of the poking and playing around with it just say yes or no I'm tired

Steve gets beat up big time OR he actually wins a fight without getting beat up for once, OR HE GETS BEAT UP AND STILL KICKS THE OTHER PERSONS/MONSTERS BUTT

El and her eggos

El's leg is still messed up and has a big scar, and she covers it up because its a bad memory

Also because I doubt The Bite was all for nothing mainly because El's blood on the ground was shifting; El is infected like the Flayed and once the gate starts opening again, she could very well be the Mind Flayers new host

El having to deal with having no powers and just breaking down at one point(she's had them all her life, and in each season is thought of as some machine to be used, and now that she's powerless, she may see her self worth drop. She's been mimicking everyone since the start because she doesnt know who she is, and her powers are the only thing she knows is hers, so taking it away..existential crisis? i totally headcanon she might think if she had her powers, she coulda saved Hop or somethin)

Let El say every single swear word. If not

Let El say f*** only because Max and Billy said it. Honor your swearing dad little Jedi

Give the Byers another dog

Joyce being the best mom ever again

Will and El not just talking about their stuff, but LARPing it, since Will cant teach her DND, and since they both lost their childhoods, that is a great way to make up for it, it would help them talk and i think it’d be really cute if Will helped El make a character. Then it ends up being angsty when the story starts to become their pasts and then they’re just crying together. They honestly need it rn

If El does end up with the infection, Will would 100% feel it and that could create some tension

GIVE ME *SLAMS HANDS ON COUNTER* ROBIN AND THE OTHER KIDS INTERACTIONS FOR MY SAKE

Robin is now the crazy Aunt of the group, with Steve as the mom

Erica and Lucas interacting and talking about adventures

Just more interactions within the group bls

Joyce going nuts, she always has to, it’s who she is

Give me gruesome, give me pain, and i cannot stress this enough, but season 4(if it does come out) should

MAKE ME CRY AND DOUBLE OVER IN 

PAIN

[alabasterswriting]

hey you don't have to post this if you don't want to but i just wanted to personally thank you for how respectful you're being about the ace!will debacle. im in a similar situation myself- i have an incredibly low romantic drive, i take friendship and found family over love stories any day (its kinda hard for me to watch stranger things bc of all the romance tbh). so i'm also caught between the gleeful thought of my favorite character being the same as me, and the... (1/2)

(2/2) ...bad implications of how the duffers have presented will's story so far. i know plenty of child characters that canonically don't like romance, but i can count on one hand the amount of canon gay child characters i've seen in television. and in this specific situation i think it would be a step back to make will ace instead of gay. idk just think it's really cool of you to recognize that and be so understanding of the situation. i hope you have an awesome rest of your day!

Oh thank you! And yeah, it’s hard when you’re of two minds about it because on the one hand, as a person who, like yourself, takes more of an interest or enjoyment out of friendships and found families, having a character like Will be ace makes something inside of you bubble up with happiness. Because on a show like this where love is rampant, you end up searching for a character like yourself who just wants to have fun with their friends. The fact that Will has never been an object of romance is one of the reasons I was drawn to him so much. So to think that maybe he’s ace just makes you even happier.

On the other hand, Will has been heavily gay-coded. And personally, I’m pretty sure he is gay. I can easily see him having a crush on Mike. But if the reason we get ace-representation is because the writers and directors are afraid to show gay-representation then that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Because you’re right, we get plenty of child characters not interested in romance, but not many who are canonically gay. And I want that representation too! Especially on a show that is so incredibly popular. It would be wonderful for fans to see a gay child (especially in the 1980s in a rural town) deal with the implications of his sexuality. The setting and time period would create a very sad backdrop, but also a necessary one. It would be incredible to watch if done well, and would be incredibly important to the gay community.

Now, as for Will in-universe, I can understand if he’s just not there yet. He’s traumatized, probably hasn’t seen many healthy romantic relationships, and as of right now, only sees romance as taking his friends away from him. So if he doesn’t think he’ll ever fall in love right now, then I can see them showing Will as being in that headspace of not wanting to deal with romance. It would be nice to see him grow beyond that to realizing that it’s not romance he doesn’t like, but rather girls he’s not romantically attracted to. And I can see that being a very beautiful narrative.

At the same time, this wars with my desire to see a character I love so much feel the same way as myself. And that’s the same with people who are gay/bi/pan who want Will to feel the same way as them, and who, frankly, also have a lot more subtext and hinting to back up their feelings and desires. It’s a very brutal cycle of wanting both sides of representation - the one you feel more personally invested in and the one that has been heavily hinted at since the beginning, and that you know would do a lot for a community that has been hurt time and time again.

Either way, it’s a hard headspace to be in, and as of right now, I’m just going to enjoy the show as it comes and see for myself what is shown on the screen. I have to have some trust in the Duffers to follow through on their plans. Thank you for sending me this! It made me smile and I hope you have a lovely rest of your day too:)

[hawkinsschoolcounselor]

Congrats on your 800 subscribers! I didn't know you had so many people following you. It seems that ST got back into production. I wanted to ask you, with X-MEN being a strong influence on the show and season 4 even naming the first episode, the Hellfire Club, a secret international organization that faces the X-Men during the Dark Pheonix Saga ( story time ^^' ). Ever since the first episode with Will asking Dustin to take his X-MEN 134 which is a comic that treats the Dark Pheonix Saga and Jean who unleashes her powers, this comic foreshadow a big part of El's arc. But I also wondered, because Will and El seems like twins or have many similiraties like the Maximoff Twins, this could also be foreshadowing Will's story in a way as we've seen him having some sort of powers. But the key thing is Will seems to have many similarities to Wanda. Wanda who is also very similar to Jean Grey.

Both Will and Wanda have a traumatic experience of their father, both have been locked into an alternate dimension or reality created by their own minds, of course it's not confirmed that the Upside Down is a creation of Will but they are many hints about it. Wanda has one son called Wiccan who has also another twin.

His powers are very intriguing, he can manipulate reality and can control electricity. Many things that Will has done. Wiccan is also openly gay.

Do you think that Will's powers could be using the Upside Down as some sort of pocket dimension where he takes his power from, he could control his trauma and be able to heal from it by using it as his powers ? If the Upside Down is a manifestation of his trauma. Maybe we could have some sort of X-MEN group a la Stranger Things ?

Also since the X-MEN have been a strong metaphor of racial and sexual oppression and ever since the 80's, a strong LGBT+ metaphor, do you think Will wants the X-MEN because he sees through the subtext and that the comics helps making him see himself in a different light because of how everyone around him reacts to his supposed sexuality ?

Also do you think the Hellfire Club could be a foreshadowing of a group, maybe the Russian trying to use El or Will for their own purposes ?

Sorry, a very long question, that was inside my head a long time but I had no one to talk about that subject.

Congrats on your subscribers anyway!

Thank you!

This seems like it might be a better question for someone like @kaypeace21, but I’ll address it as best I can. I’m not an expert on the X-Men, but I was really into the 90s cartoon series, so I know a fair bit.

There are a lot of hints that Will’s life has been unkind even before the Upside Down became a part of it. I highly suspect that he is connected to it in some way, and that is why he was a prime target of the demogorgon. He wasn’t simply killed like some other victims. Instead, the demogorgon was trying to capture him. There has to be a reason for that.

X-Men references go back to season 1, so it was likely an influence on the Duffers as they wrote the story. Now that we have the Hellfire Club, another X-Men reference, we may be seeing things come full circle. The Hellfire Club was involved in the Phoenix saga, which was also referenced by the comic Will challenged Dustin for in the bike race. I don’t know that Will consciously wants that one due to his own situation. I think X-Men likely appeals to all of them due to their outcast status. Each member of the Party is bullied for something.

I don’t know if the Hellfire Club foreshadows anything, or if it’s just another geeky reference. That said, a lot of the minor things end up predicting the plot each season. It’s a fair guess that El and/or Will end up being exploited or experimented on by some shady group, whether it’s Brenner, the Russians, or some (ugh) new villainous organization.

I also don’t know about Wiccan being relevant. They’ve mostly seemed to stick to X-Men, specifically the Phoenix sage, while Wiccan was part of the Young Avengers. Maybe it was inspiration, but I think they’re going to stick to 80s comics that Will would have been aware of, especially if Will is subconscious influencing things. Again, though, this isn’t my area of expertise.

There’s just so many layers going on, and so many other works the Duffers draw inspiration from. It can be very challenging to work out what exactly they are using from any given source. Yes, the X-Men has been used as a metaphor for the oppressed, and season 1 reinforces this by having the Party be victims of bullying. The more obvious explanation is that it is foreshadowing El and her powers being the center focus. However, Will constantly being at the center of trauma, and it seemingly being linked to the actions of the Mindflayer, make me think he’s more significant than the Duffers wanted people to initially think. In the X-Men universe, mutants often come into their powers in adolescence as a result of emotional stress. This certainly is where Will is at, and it opens the door for him to unleash his true power.

I don’t know about there being an X-Men group necessarily, but I really would like to see El and Will uniting as a power duo in some way. Kali could be reintroduced to be part of this, which I’d like since it’d make her episode actually seem less like it was forced into the plot. I suppose we can stretch the definitions of “power” so that the rest of the Party can be part of an X-Men type group. We’ve been repeatedly shown that the Party is at its best together.

Now that I think about it, I like the idea of X-Men relating to the oppressed as a way for Will’s friends to conceptualize what he’s going through. Regardless of our feelings for the characters, and how we’d like to think they’re too good to be homophobic, they are still a group of small-town 80s teens. Someone like Steve was the exception, not the rule, back then, and his easy acceptance may well have been written in to show how mature he’s really become. Dustin and Lucas would likely be, at the very least, uneasy knowing their friend (well, friends, if I’m right about Mike) is gay. This wouldn’t make them bad people in and of itself, as their homophobia would be due to ignorance rather than malice. What would separate them from the villains would be their ability to realize they were wrong and accept Will (and Mike!) as their friend. Drawing a connection to how badly mutants were treated could be a key to getting them to understand the situation better.

I hope I touched on all of your points. You clearly put a lot of effort into your Ask, but it was a lot, so I may have missed something. Feel free to submit another if I missed anything or you want to follow up or get clarification.

[kirabook]

Ok even if I don’t care for it: 

“Oh my goodness Will loves Mike, but Mike loves El but it’s a mess and oh my goodness Will has confessed and now things are weird how will they resolve this??!?! At least they don’t hate each other!”

Dumb/stupid/fucking idiotic:

“Will and El hate each other, they like the same guy.”

“But Will/El suck as a character so obviously this ship should be canon. Better not mess up my ship.”

“Mike should cheat on El with Will. Because BISEXUAL THAT’S HOW IT WORKS~~~~~”

“Will should do something to make Mike and El break up, because he’s totes the kind of person do to that.”

“How dare Will but into my ship, I hate him, god his character is the worst.”

“Obviously Will is straight and he’s going to fight Mike over El.”

“El is going to get with Will to make Mike all jealous and stuff and then they’ll get back together. Lololol, that would be awesome!” 

“El is basically an infant who doesn’t even know what’s she’s doing. Mike should break up with her to get with Will instead.”

“MIke only used El to get Will back, he doesn’t actually love her like that. But oh, I’d totally want him to get with Will though. What a great guy.” 

“Will and El can’t be close like that, El has a boyfriend!”

“Will won’t like El because she’s dating Mike and ruining his life!”

Conclusion

Yes. Those are only slightly exaggerated sentences I’ve seen before.

I hate love triangles. I think of all the movies and books I’ve read, there have been 2 love triangles that I was kinda ok with and that’s it. Jopper + Bob is one of them if that could even be considered a love triangle.

I especially hate how shippers deal with this specific love triangle. I’ve spent the last year and a half reading the dumbest shittiest opinions about Will and El usually based on what the person ships. Look back at my history. Read every time I mention the ships involving Will and El. It’s almost always complaining about people being stupid or feeling threatened over nothing. 

I’m sorry, but this fandom is not mature or smart enough to properly digest this and the writers aren’t either. Look at how badly they screwed up a straight love triangle (Jonathan/Nancy/Steve) and how badly the fandom received it. There’s still idiots in this fandom to this day that think Nancy cheated on Steve, or that she was only with him like some long extended prank just to hurt his feelings or some shit. 

I barely trust the Duffers to make my son gay and properly handle that, let alone a complicated love triangle like this one. They definitely aren’t going to do poly stuff even if they wanted to. 

I’m scared more than anything that one or two (or maybe all three) characters will end up hated by the entire fandom for bullshit reasons mostly attributed to bad writing. 

I think I’ve only read one or two Milevill fics that weren’t just created to bash on a character or a ship so sorry if I’m skeptical about this love triangle actually coming to fruition in canon. 

It’s a weird place to be because I think all boundaries should be pushed, but I also acknowledge that too many people in this fandom are just straight up dumb and can ruin the whole journey. 

Urg. I can’t stand this topic. God, I hate love triangles so much. I kinda hate that it’s even a possibility right now. It’s so weird because when I was first getting into Stranger Things, I immediately took a liking to WIll and El’s platonic potential and I was slowly getting into Milevill content (god that ship name is hard to spell), but I just fell out of it. Slowly but surely, I think.... I don’t even know if I like that trio anymore. And I think it’s entirely because of fandom. No matter how hard I tried, I prefer other trios now (all of which aren’t even romantic, but that’s just who I am I guess)

Sorry if this is rambling. But this stuff really bothers me. I don’t know how to deal. On the one hand, I want a gay Will plot. On the other, I hate love triangles with a burning passion. Can I have 1 without the other? Apparently not. 

I just want my Will and El content. Why can’t things be more simple. I’ll delete this eventually. I’m just feeling frustrated. Every year I grow older, I hate ships more and more. 

I will be enraged if the fandom tears Will and El apart over a love triangle. I will cry.