#andrey lore

[meirimerens]

as much as eva's suicide impacts me and how much it grips me and how much i think about it and love to go over her character with the lenses that this is (one of) her end(s) i cannot help but like. smile a little in an evil and ironic way when it is farkhad's cathedral she ends up throwing her soul into. farkhad's cathedral she chooses as a vessel for her soul to light. imagine being andrey and this guy, who you had a weird toxic gay unconsummated thing with going on, who your brother had a weirder gay unconsummated thing with going on (because your brother does not quite do the consumption in the way you do but he's inclined to the weirder ways to do it), who you killed out of artistic differences, artistic jealousy, an all-consuming desire to protect yourself and your brother as this man('s creations) threatened your existence(s) (through threatening your own artistic works), and you believed killing him would keep you and your loved ones safe, ends up stealing your girl away from you because his stuff is just that good. he doesn't even fw women like that so he wouldn't want your woman in any other way his stuff is just that powerful. i'd dig him out and kill him again. why's that grave empty

[pyotrkochetkov]

Players Only | Brady Skjei

[goddidntdothis]

[yuraslefttoe]

everyone: we really like your characters and want to know more

tart: i dont think anyones really interested :(

ok but dont except anything actually cool!!!!! first things first i made a playlist for all the songs tentatively named "creatures" for lack of a better name. here it is apollo death machine is now its forever name second things second its important to understand im not telling an overarching epic like ferry does with pafl or like literally any other vocaloposter with a story driven narrative. the songs are supposed to work in pairs and tell you small things about the characters BUT AT THE SAME TIME the songs each individually stand for a idea or concept that i wrote the song around. the pairings are as follows: enigma - tbd firing line - tbd theory of i - privateer draw5 - kerosene

each song provides as an antithesis for another but also they have underlying meanings that people have yet to figure out unless ive told them. i like the sorta double meaning thing where yes its telling you a little about the characters and relation but then there's also this other thing that totally unrelated to the characters so that's how i continue how to write these songs.

third things third here are the characters. the part youve all be waiting for. in order of appearence:

this is europa. illustrated by meem. appears in privateer. he is very quiet and generally just goes with the flow. he is meant to be a counterpart of andrei idk we'll get into that later

this is maya also illustrated by meem. appears in firing line (which i think i might remake at some point). she is the only character of this batch who doesn't have a direct counterpart because she is just so cool. she likes to call herself the reaper.

this is mikhail, illustrated by ferry. appears in enigma and kerosene! he looks very nice but he is not really a good person actually. he has a counterpart but i have yet to write him into the "story" yet. im sure someone can put two and two together and figure out where he falls.

finally, this is andrei :) he is easily persuaded and is actually a very soft spoken individual despite what draw5 sounds like. he has very poor eyesight. he appears in theory of i and draw5.

fourth things fourth the general "narrative" i have is that these songs tell you about the characters and how they feel about eachother. the general consensus between all the songs (because i went through like five iterations of ideas) is that there are two timelines whom our characters resides. maya exists in both as the same person and only misha has the power to travel between both. hijinks ensue. thank you to meem for helping me design and name these characters love you mwah

[spoopy-moose]

The Stamatins gives the vibe that Peter ate Andry in the womb, incubated him for eighteen years and then spat him back out as a fully formed human when they got to university

[stimmingandstruggling]

when the crane wives said “i will love you like the ashes in my cigarette box” they were talking about andrey and goncharov actually

[alpacinoinheat]

andrey: *is ashamed of his half czech origin*

also andrey: *dropping kurvas left and right when nobody’s around*

[stars-and-the-sky]

[hybridempress]

I think my favorite thing about Goncharov (1973) is that it's a perfect example of how good storytelling can show you that two characters are in love with one another without explicitly stating it.

Many people have already spoken at great length about how hollywood's homophobia and transphobia stifled the creation of well-written queer romances in film and forced many creators to limit the romances between their characters to simple subtext, some of which we may never receive full confirmation of even now in 2022. And while that certainly played a small hand in how Goncharov as a movie was written, that's not what I want to talk about in this post.

The fact of the matter was that having Katya end up with Sofia or having Andrey or Mario confess love for Goncharov (or vice versa) would have completely destroyed the meaning of the film. Part of these characters struggling and ultimately failing to understand who they are or what they are living for includes them struggling with their interpersonal relationships with one another and failing to ever find out what they truly mean to one another. However, this doesn't mean that their relationships are a mystery for us as the audience to figure out.

Katya is explicitly depicted as a bisexual woman struggling with her love for her husband versus the temptation to try something new--meaning Sofia. Katya's love for Goncharov is strong and real, but Sofia presents something to Katya that Katya has never had before. Something that Katya wants but is too scared to take hold of. Katya doesn't stay with her husband because she isn't actually in love with Sofia, she stays with her husband because she is afraid of accepting that she wants change in her life. She's scared of it. And this, among other things, is one of the core reasons why she ends up betraying Goncharov in the end. Katya wants what she can't have--that is, she wants both Goncharov AND Sofia and the narrative makes this inner turmoil VERY clear

On the other hand, it doesn't seem that Goncharov loves Katya as much as she loves him. This is made apparent in the way that he is emotionally disconnected from her throughout the entire movie, but it is made ESPECIALLY clear in the scene of Katya's betrayal. For Katya, loving Goncharov means setting both of them free. She tells him as much when she tells him that the reason she tried to shoot him is because they're in love with each other. But when Goncharov tells her "if we really were in love, you wouldn't have missed" it shows that to Goncharov their relationship is not stable. They don't know each other as well as they should, and Katya fundamentally does not have the bravery to admit that something is wrong between them or to work towards something new because again, change scares her.

That scene sets up a DIRECT parallel to both when Mario betrays Goncharov--not killing him directly but killing his spirit, killing his soul--and when Andrey shoots and kills him at the end of the movie. Both of the relationships that Goncharov had with these two men were more complex, intricate, and deeper to him than his relationship with Katya was. And he knew at the end of the day that these two men understood him more deeply than he himself did, or than anyone else ever could. So while there was no direct confession of love, the act of these two men each killing Goncharov in their own ways where Katya failed to do so is a metaphor for how deeply connected they were, how in a different life maybe they could have explored these feelings for each other, but what makes their relationships so tragic and beautiful is that they were never meant to be.

And personally, I just think the story works better this way. I think Goncharov is one of the few films where the queer relationships staying in the "subtext" is actually beneficial for the narrative of the story, because it's still THERE. You don't even have to look that hard to see it. It's very explicit, it's just that it's explicit through storytelling. It's explicit in action. It's explicit in words. It's just not explicit in "i love you" with a kiss. And I just think that makes it more beautiful.

[desolindistress]

Concepts + Relationships in Goncharov (1973)

I finally watched Goncharov and wanted to post my own analysis because it destroyed me emotionally ;-; This will be focused on certain scenes / concepts that stand out to me, and scenes related to Goncharov or Katya. It also gets more unprofessional and rambly the further it gets as I lose my sanity. Enjoy!

It's incredibly significant to me that a movie portraying positive gay relationships was filmed during a time when the Hays Code was active. It really shows the resilience and continual survival/presence of the LGBT+ community, even when faced with hostility from the outside world. Of course the gay relationships aren't the focus of Goncharov but like, the fact that gay relationships never needed to be in this movie at all?? They weren't essential to the plot. The movie wasn't about or centered around queer relationships. Those queer relationships just... existed. Director Martin Scorsese just... chose queer representation. It's super unfortunate that queer representation did end up leading to Goncharov's heavy censorship when it was released but I think being able to rediscover it in 2022 has given a lot of us in the queer community hope and has turned Goncharov into sort of a 'queer icon' type movie? And might be what has led to Tumblr's huge obsession over it. (Because as you know, the presence of gays on Tumblr is huge).

Goncharov (1973) is also culturally significant. The anchovies scene. THE ANCHOVIES SCENE. They really single-take improv'ed a scene discussing fUCKING PIZZA and USED IT AS AN ALLEGORY for old, traditional values vs. new progressive values. THE ACTORS ARE FUCKING BRILLIANT??? Not only this but the anchovies scene as the setup to homoerotic Andrey x Goncharov implications ?! smortass gae men plsss. What's so important about this scene to me is that it reflects how many of my friends and I might have a conversation. They're just cooking and they start talking about food. then that leads to an INTELLECTUAL discussion about values, using what they're doing (cooking) as a metaphorical comparison point. AndTHEY DID IT SO WELL???? FIND ME ONE PERSON IRL WHO CAN USE ANCHOVIES ON PIZZA TO MAKE A POINT ABT PROGRESSIVE / NEW IDEAS BEING SCARY BUT ALSO POSSIBLY BEING GOOD BUT YOU WOULDN'T KNOW UNTIL YOU TRIED IT???? i am iN LOVE

OK LET ME AT SOFIA FOR A MOMENT GRRRRGRGRGRRR BARK BARK BARK GRRRRRRRRR. Sofia is insane. When we're first introduced to this character she fucking bITES SOMEONE'S EAR OFF in the background of a shot?? SHE IS A BITER she is crazy I LOVE HER. Biter representation fr. Then while Katya and Sofia are having their wlw sequence, and they fight, Sofia ruthlessly starts fucking drowning her ??? Against Katya's reasonability, her love, her "this isn't how we end sof" they're fighting, Katya's dying, the slowing thudding heartbeat with the ticking watch, it's all so.. visceral. Tangible. It's a scene you FEEL deep in your bones. You recognize in that moment that Sofia just... is a wild card. No apologies, no purpose, no meaning. She's not a manic pixie dream girl, no Harley Quinn, she's not written up for some redemption arc or to be "misunderstood" just for later trauma reveal and healing sequences. She just... is. She's insane and awful and tragic and amazing and beautiful too. She's a force of nature. She truly makes you feel entropy incarnate.

Next up the apple scene. CAN WE TALK ABT THE REPEATED FOOD SYMBOLISM IN THIS MOVIE??? Goncharov offering Andrey the apple ??? Adam and Eve allegory ???? The entire scene basically screams "hey im gay (corruption) come be gay (corrupted) with me" and I LOVE IT. but the fact that ANDREY FUCKING REFUSES TO EAT IT??? Like. im SOBBING this is such an emotional and symbolic scene and we can see Andrey struggling with himself here. He doesn't know what he wants yet. He doesn't want to make hasty decisions. Yes, he takes the apple, but he also doesn't eat it- he's tempted but he doesn't commit. He knows better than to follow his basic impulses. He decides to spend time getting to know Goncharov better instead. This scene really offers a lens into Andrey's character and gives him dimension rather than making this a Gay Romance ™️

NEXT UP: clock tower scene !!!!! wow. wowowowowoowowow. ok. wow i can't breathe. this scene is STUNNING. 1) the clock symbolism, relating back to Katya's watch. 2) the actual aesthetic, gorgeous spinning brass and silver accents with the sunlight and everything. 3) the STANDOFF between Goncharov and Andrey. Goncharov is so scared and paranoid. He has that gun pulled and pointed at Andrey, he's shaking, he's visibly upset and unwell. Andrey is an absolute statue, the fucking image of calm over here smoking a cigarette not even worried. Such gorgeous juxtaposition man I wanna cry. 4) the gunshot. when Goncharov pulled the trigger I jumped so hard, hell I expect anyone who watched this movie jumped and yet the focus on Andrey and he's still standing just as still, not a twitch not a jump. He was looking away from Goncharov and yet he didn't fear for his life for a SECOND. He knew he wasn't going to get shot. I can't believe this sexy ass man's nerve but it makes him so beautiful and contrasts so well with Goncharov's paranoia. And then the "Time is something you can’t stop, Goncharov" line after Goncharov has blown out the clock in the tower with his gunshot like COME ON who even thinks of something that iconic to say except sexy ass Andrey / sexy ass director Martin Scorsese ughhhh

and finally we reach the death of Goncharov, and the primary theory of all Goncharov enthusiasts: gay sex would've fixed everything. Would it have though... would it really have? Because now we know of Andrey's betrayal. The way he kills Goncharov... and shouldn't we have known it all along when he refused to eat the apple Goncharov offered? And Andrey shoots Goncharov in the back. It's like how in the clock tower, he had his back turned to Goncharov when Goncharov could've shot him... now there is a role reversal, but Andrey does shoot. And he has the chance to shoot Katya too but Katya kills him first. We don't see much one-on-one interaction between Katya and Andrey in this movie but the standoff between Goncharov's love interest and his Literal Wife is so powerful and you can really tell that even though Katya and Goncharov as a couple are over (or were over for a while) she still cares about him strongly. She still loves him. She avenges him swiftly and with no hesitation, not just to save her own life. She is cradling Goncharov's body as she sees Andrey and sheds that last single tear, and she has sympathy for him and his lost love. Katya is so strong. So brave. So beautiful. She is the ultimate strong ass woman and she does right by her dead husband and she kills for love. She is an amazing character and she absolutely is the only one to deserve to live.

------

p.s. this was created with the help of a mass document on Goncharov (1973) developed by various Tumblr users. thank you all for your labor of love in creating this doc !!

[meirimerens]

hii, one quastion, I was wondering if you had any pieces of canon lore attached to your vision of Andrey (and Peter I guess too) as bisexual? I remember you talked about what parts of canon made you consider Dankovsky as gay, Burakh as gay, etc but what about Andrey my friend Andrey… Is there lore or is it just pure vibes (which is good too) SORRY if it's already been asked lol

hiiii okay i probally already talked about this but doesn't hurt to talk more we love to talk Ok the two crucial points for me are

his line "You do look like a hero - from the front. But what about the other end? Bend over." addressed at a man was written to be sexually forward [source]. while many men will use sexual forwardness/bluntness not through the lenses of desire but through those of power/threat, a heterosexual man will refrain from sexual forwardness towards another man as homosexual acts are still The Great Heterosexual Male Taboo and in the heterosexual male mind, degrading in itself. tldr i think he means it this time

design documents say of him "Based on Benvenuto Cellini" and while it is pretty hard to find a Renaissance artist who did not go to bed with at the very least the Leg Of Bicuriosity, Cellini was arrested and charged Multiple Times for sexual affairs with men. called a sodomite by another sculptor to his face and all. had to be there in those times. other things appear to link Cellini & Andrey, such as the killing of the brother's killer in an act of blood revenge (which Andrey doesn't canonically do, but that sounds enough like something he would do). but the "multiple times arrested for gaysexing" is a pretty hefty thing in that lore.

tldr I see it for real.

as for peter I think it's funny. andrey hammers your head with "he and i are perfect twins" & since it's not uncommon for multiple siblings to be gay or bi That's Funny to me. also because i like to explore how fundamentally alike & fundamentally different they are, both bi & both living their bisexualities in very different ways. in my mind's eye peter got that "oh he's... 😬 sensitive 😬....." treatment as a kid but discovered himself bi later in life. andrey has lived his bisexuality openly loudly and amorously for longer, having more (multiple at once) lovers. not really a bi thing he'd be like that if he were straight regardless; i just think it contrasts with the In My Mind's Eye of peter getting no bitches before age 29. peter tried to get laid Once and it went so bad they had to kill the guy. women don't really want to deal with him. andrey insisted he come to the all-male gatherings of the capital's students to mingle with Like-Minded Men If You Know What I Mean and he just stood in the corner like that one meme. sensitive white bi boy scaring the hoes at the club. etc

[pinkpuffballdude]

I so very badly want a film festival where all the entries are interpretations of Goncharov

[effervescent-mulder]

[yuraslefttoe]

hey tart! I finally dared to write you a question, omg. so I want to start with formalities, because I am damn delighted with every song of yours!! I swear, I am in absolute love for your work, and I am interested in everything connected with it! (and I apologize in advance for possible illiteracy, I am not a native english speaker and am only in the process of learning it *TwT*)

therefore, I would like to know more about your characters. for example, how tall are each of them? or what about their clothes? andrey’s is quite strange, is it some kind of uniform?? Same question about misha, lmao! oh, besides andrey has a scar along his eye. do you have a lore moment of how he got it???

and one last thing. I don’t run social networks as such, but I want to show you my various sketches and other little things, if you don’t mind. can I attach them to my future questions just so you can see them, okay?)

👉👈

ohh thank you so much for all the kind words :) sometimes i feel sad because people enjoy these characters so much and i do not give them any real lore but ill try to answer these questions to the best of my brain power. if you havent read the big overall summary post i did awhile ago its tagged somewhere under #adm.

i have no idea how tall they are. it is assumed andrei is noticeably shorter than misha but not too much shorter.

as far as clothes go, (this is so stupid) but they were designed by TWO different people and at the beginning i never had any intentions of using misha outside of enigma but then i started writing more song about him. misha was designed by @roseclemshipper and the general idea back then was some mash between that bitch from ungray days, ci flower, and a wolf plush from ikea (we made a mood board). andrei was designed by lon and i think i told him something along the lines of "tactical combat boyfriend" who knows. i think they are silly and clash with eachother in a good way.

idk exactly how he got the scar but id like to think it was whatever caused him to need the eye visor screen thingy in the first place

yes of course :) you can always send fanart here or you can just post stuff and tag me or use #adm i check that tag maybe once every few weeks

hope this doesnt disappoint you with the overwhelming lack of concrete lore. the story is WHATEVERRR you want it to be guys

[bowloftaurussoup]

The Lost Women of Goncharov

Listen i love Katya and Sofia as well as anyone, but can we talk about Luciana and Mariella for a minute? The Lost Women of Goncharov. They exist solely as plot devices to further the downward spiral between Andrey and Goncharov and yet haunt the whole script....without Luciana almost none of the action in the film would take place, she is fundamental, yet we know nothing about her. Not a single picture or relic. She’s not even credited with a surname despite the plot importance of her being Mario Ambrosini’s wife....And Mariella. She only ever exists in the background, is dead by the end of the second act, but her relationship with Mario (which is shown only through implications: her pouring his drink for him at the poker game, the way they are always looking at one another in the few scenes they are in, despite never sharing a word) underscores the entire falling apart of the wider male unit of characters. 

Between them, these two women represent an antithesis to the central theme of the story. Goncharov, both the character and the film, are obsessed with time and how little of it we have - how the clock strikes for everyone, and once your time is up, it's up - and yet Luciana and Mariella represent the fact that time does in fact go on. Luciana dies, is a faded echo of a memory, and still permeates the motivations of the living characters. They kill for her, they die for her, her name is repeated and repeated and repeated. Andrey and Goncharov and Ice Pick Joe and Valery Michailov are caught up in their own maddening little torture spiral, becoming less and less aware of the rest of the world, but the rest of the world goes on. Mariella and Mario have an affair or a friendship or a something, almost ignorant of the danger they are in, simply because of this fact: The World Goes On. And yes, obviously, you could just say they’re weakly written female characters who got fridged to further male character development because of misogyny in the film-making industry in the seventies....but I just think that they’re actually very subversive characters and that’s a fact worth recognising

[daegaljpg]

attention goncharov musicians:

i know the joke is that you supposedly dug up these pieces of music from the film (when you actually made them) but i need to be very serious real quick.

they are extremely well made. and if you make goncharov soundtracks i need you to contact me. i may or may not have a little plan for it and the connections to go through with said plan.