#anti Kreia

[short-wooloo]

Antijedidiots when Jedi say "trust in the Force": the Jedi are passive! What they're saying is do nothing and hope things work out (or if the anti jedidiot is of the kreian "I hate god" school, they'll say the Force is evil)

Antijedidiots when Qui-Gon says "trust in the Force": omg Qui-Gon just gets it unlike every other Jedi, he actually listens to the Force because he's the one true jedi

[sweetmaniax]

KOTOR 2 was a giant mistake on the star wars fandom

[revanknightwoman]

In my oponion both characters with the similar goals overall. Thing they want is to destroy the opressing powers(Force, bending) and end the pointless wars.

[gffa]

This is not telling you "do this", but if you ever want a "category" to recommend fics of again, a part of me is wondering if you came across any "Anakin realizes the manipulation and decides to try to annoy Palpatine into a stroke" fanfics?

This comes from me playing kotor 2 sick of kreia (who I think is a big part of the anti Jedi sentiment we've commiserated about) and deciding to antagonize her on purpose

You know, if I'd known I was going to be at this for 8+ years or whatever, I would have started tagging my recs better when I first started, because I love rec lists suggestions, but so often I get paralyzed by trying to remember fics and eventually my brain just refuses to work on it anymore and I don't get them done. ): That said, I don't think I've read any fics like that, so if anyone has a fic like that, please jump in! (I promised to come screaming at @everyoneprotector next time I had a fic-finding quest, SO PLEASE HELP US. <3) (Someday I will have to play KOTOR, just because it's such a huge part of the fandom, I just. Gotta get through like 20 recent books first. 😭)

[unleashthegoats]

Hey y'all! Loved the new episode, and wanted to chip in on one of the later points - videogames, especially in relation to the "Grey" Jedi concept. Knights of the Old Republic II really did some irreversible damage in that regard, as much as I love the game (though I prefer the first one). Kreia is one of the most central characters in regard to shifting morality debates in Star Wars (in universe and from fans alike) imo, and I'd honestly be super interested in hearing you three cover either or both of the games in the podcast, although I understand that's highly unlikely since none of you have played them. But she is extremely relevant to this topic because she preaches about neutrality and that there's more than just ~dogmatic thinkings of light and dark~, and your relationship with her suffers if you are kind and altruistic and get too rooted in the light side and she's like...one of *the* characters that kind of gets credited with developing a "grey" philosophy in-universe? But people always bring her up as if she's this great point of sensible consideration and not actually, as it turns out, a master manipulator trying to purge the Force from the galaxy (or something like that at least? It's been a while since my last playthrough lol) that lies to you all the time to get you to do what she wants (because she was so crazy bananas both the Jedi and the Sith said "no thank u :)" - well, with a bit more nuance but you get the gist). Really, it's a bit like people falling for Palpatine's anti-Jedi points all over how they talk about her philosophic arguments without bringing that up. But yeah, I thought you might be interested in that. Also, I think KotOR might be what people meant with being able to unlock Dark Side powers as a Light sider but you are absolutely correct that it's a mechanics vs story issue (especially since some powers are indeed alignment-locked AND making dark side choices does impact the character (apart from story, ending and relationships to your party members). It's a bit of a simplistic gimmick, of course, but the further you get into the Dark Side on the alignment, the more it's visible - sickly skin colour, cracks in the skin and flesh, your eyes change...stuff like that. I don't think using Dark Side powers actually pushes you further down the alignment, but the intent is obviously not for Light Siders to mix and match however they like).

Anyway, I'm so sorry for rambling on for so long, but I thought you (or someone, at least :D ) might appreciate that additional info. Keep up the good podcasting! :)

OUR FIRST ASK! I'm so glad you're enjoying the podcast, thank-you so much for listening to us ramble on for an hour once a month!

This is all really interesting! I've read a few metas about the Star Wars video games and the characters within them which is partly why I chose to briefly include them in the episode (and also because I am familiar with Jedi: Survivor which has its own "dark side" mechanic for the main character that was relevant to the discussion). Aside from Jedi: Survivor, I wasn't necessarily referencing any one specific video game, I assume it's probably a thing that's come up more than once.

As far as my reaction to Kreia goes, just based on your description of her, the idea of there being "too much light" just isn't how Lucas's own worldbuilding worked. It's clearly trying to hit on the idea of "balance" being equal amounts of light and dark usage, as opposed to balance being acknowledging darkness EXISTS (in yourself and in the universe) in order to keep yourself from acting on it. There just isn't a way to be "too light" or something like that, there's never "too much" kindness and compassion and selflessness in the world. In this sense, the video games are just going to fall into the same category as the rest of legends and EU stuff, in that they often just do their own thing based on their own interpretations of Star Wars, but it doesn't mean it actually fits with what Lucas himself was trying to get across about the philosophy of the Force and the Jedi in his own stories, and that's primarily what we're using as a base to discuss Star Wars from.

If any of us ends up playing KOTOR, we can certainly try to bring it up more often. I don't think we have any plans of doing more video game stuff currently, but if the KOTOR remake ever comes to pass, maybe I will!

-Mod Sugar

[425599167]

6, 21, 19 for the choose violence ask game?

6. which ship fans are the most annoying?

Reylo. I wouldn't have minded the ship much if it weren't for fan behavior ranging from "opinions on sex are a red flag" to "blatantly racist". Of course, I'm in a glass house when it comes to problematic ships, but the difference is I'm not trying to recontextualize the fucked up parts as cute romantic moments. I'm trying to recontextualize the fucked up parts as a bad breakup. I also won't throw a tantrum when someone disagrees.

19. you're mad/ashamed/horrified you actually kind of like...

I recently replayed KotOR II, which I previously hated, and enjoyed it so much more it ticks me off. Part of it was progressing through planets in the reverse order of every guide I found because that builds up the scale of the conflict better, and being higher level for the mandatory Nar Shadaa section was less frustrating. The other part was focusing on the five apprentice companions and making them Jedi while pretending Kreia doesn't exist, until the finale shoves her pretentious anti-Force narrative in my face and the game stumbles across the finish line.

21. part of canon you think is overhyped

My opinion of it has softened over the years both from personally mellowing out and adjacent stories filling many of the plot gaps, but the Prequel Trilogy still isn’t very good. Definitely not as good as modern fans tend to hype it up.

[autogynocrat]

My favorite Vintage Tumblr moment was watching the anti feminist/anti sjw crowd just gradually implode on itself over time after months of infighting. It's like once gamergate and third wave feminism died down there wasn't anything really holding them together anymore so they started calling each other out for the stupidest things

basing your identity around being the opposite of another, established identity, instead of having your own concrete and intrinsic value will lead to that. when your whole thing is dedicating yourself to fighting some other thing what happens when that other thing isn't relevant anymore? when gamergate fizzled out the moderates moved on. a lot of the rest were either actual misogynists(the Cappadocia guy, logicd, a few others) or just people who wanted to argue for arguments sake. not good company ultimately.

its like when kreia said "to be united by hatred is a fragile thing"

[sovonight]

Well I don’t know the conditions but there’s a simple answer for if Kreia says that in a DS high Atton influence run: She’s Lying. -Snail

oh good point

[unknownunseenunheard]

How about 22 and 23 :) ?

Yes sir annnd thank you ! (:

22) Popular character you hate?

I have several actually 😂

I'm not even sure who's at the top. Snape? Itachi? Byakuran? Tony Stark? I mean, I can see some justification for those first two, but the other two just get worse the longer you analyze them.

Actually, scratch that, only Itachi doesn't get worse when you analyze too closely because he has a genuinely tragic backstory...

Anyways, instead of these guys, I'm going with someone entirely different.

I'm going to have to go with... Damon Salvatore.

Now, I didn't get very far into Vampire Diaries. I could tell it was gonna be a drama show that just focused on relationships from the start, and after watching old school Roswell where an entire character arc was derailed for the sake of romance, I was not about to watch that shit again.

However, the few episodes I did watch showed me one thing: Damon was an unrepentant murderer and a rapist.

(FYI, mind controlling someone into having sex with you is rape. Why do I have to explain that to people?)

The reason I hate him above everyone else is because his fucking fandom got so big and got so loud that he got the happy ending of the show. People ignored the fact that he ran around raping and killing people because he had a pretty fucking face, and that disgusts me on a level you would not even believe.

23) Unpopular character you love?

I have always had a fondness for Ruby on Supernatural. Then again, in general, I like female manipulative characters. My favorite Star Wars character is Darth Traya, who's like Ruby but twenty times more manipulative. (Without the sex involved)

Send me a Salty Ask? (:

[duelofthefatesmp3]

what's amazing about kreia as an anti Jedi character is that she doesn't have a sith approach to it, she just thinks they suck cause they bend their will to the force

[anolympicbird]

So this appears to be coming around again but the kotor games are both compliant with the movies when it comes to how bad and shitty the dark side and the sith are and how it messes up characters.

Every single sith in those games is a broken and messed up soul. Revan and Malak went from trying to get justice for a genocide to committing them. Yuthara Ban went from being anti slavery to being on the side of a slaving empire (there are characters in game tagged 'slave'). Kreia is so messed up that she lies, betrays and manipulates everyone she meets. Darth Sion is a undying zombie living in constant pain because of the dark side and Nihilus has to consume souls in order to survive.

Even the dark side ghosts are worse then those of the jedi. Ajunta Pall barely remembers he exists and Marka Ragnos and the others are fixated on hurting the jedi long after they died. All of that is just the big characters from the two games and the all line up with how the movies depict how the dark side operates. The dark side is a quick and easy path to corruption, obsession and evil, good people go bad and bad people go full megalomaniac. That is just how it works in Star Wars

[torilaa]

I did one of these Artbreeder things for my Revan, Wes, now one for my Exile, Myla Valaut! I’ll be honest, I’ve had this lying around for a while and forgot to post it.

I could have called her Meetra but...well, she doesn’t look or act like Meetra (and I’m just reminded on how wrong the Exile’s character turned out in that book). 

See below the cut for more about her:

I used an hispanic player in kotor 2 so I based her appearance off that with some changes. Again, the AI thing is weird. I guess short military type hair on women is “abnormal.” I made sure there were some grey hairs and age in there too cause Malachor (and a freaking Force wound) would have that effect I’d think. 

In comparison to Wes at the beginning of Fragmented, she’s very stoic...cool...yet very empathetic. So I made sure her eyes were soft yet face hardened to reflect that. Before the War, she was as outgoing as Revan and Alek - she got along with Alek more since they trained for longer together on Dantooine. Eventually, Alek introduced her to Revan as young teens.  

At the beginning of kotor 2 she has a “I don’t wanna talk about it” ala Carth attitude. Actually, her and Carth would get along, I’d think XD! Certainly that would piss off Atton.

As a character, I really see her as being indecisive - which is a very difficult characteristic for a protagonist to have. She’ll have to suck it up! As for how she sees the Jedi...Myla never admits that she is bitter about what the Council did of course...which, well.... Kreia will start to make her admit to that bitterness. Which is good but also...bad in a way (thanks anti-therapist grandma). 

There’s probably more about her that I haven’t said here (I’m not sure about her romantic preferences or her origins at the moment...so there is way more for me to discover about her). I’ll leave that for when I get to kotor 2 :)!

[razzledazzleistakensothisisme]

Today's review we're doing star wars outbound flight by Timothy Zahn my favourite star wars author. This story is set in 27 bby around five years after the battle of naboo in the phantom menace and follows the stories of Jorj "notice me thrawn-senpai" Car'das, Jorus "one u this time so you know I'm the real deal" C'baoth, his padawan turned jedi knight Lorana "I'm not a side character I swear" Jinzler and our collective favourite strategic mastermind/art fetishist Thrawn with guest appearances by obi-wan "best beard" kenobi and his padawan anakin "I'm a person I swear" Skywalker (with reference to a pretty important character for the njo books. Yknow the one that got ruined in literally every story that came after njo). In the story we spend most of our time learning about how cool the chiss are as a species (but mostly thrawn) and how cool/a terrible idea the titular outbound flight is.

You might be inclined to say "But Raz, you magnificent mastermind you, this just sounds like setup for the Thrawn trilogy,' and you'd be mostly correct though it does enough on its own as a story to be worth a read even without riding the coat tails of the forever awesome Thrawn trilogy. It also serves as a brilliant introduction to the chiss culture which, for nerds like me and presumably you if you've read this far, is just marvelous. Try talking about the intricacies of the chiss naming conventions next time you don't go to a party with your friends. They'll love it.

One of my favourite parts of this book, and this is the most spoilery I get so if you don't want spoils then skip this paragraph, is what we find out about C'baoth in that the insanity and ego that burns through the clone jedis essence is barely an exaggeration from the original evil looking santa clause. This guy is the anti-kreia and believes the jedi, and by extension him, are the ultimate authorities of the galaxy due to their powers in the force and anything that dares stand in their way deserves death. He is very fun to watch as he's just a complete jerk to everyone he sees as beneath him(which means everyone) and really deserves a slap.

Overall outbound flight is a fun little side note in the galaxy far far away. If you, like me, have a never ending pain in your chest that screams "More star war NOW" constantly and agonisingly then you will more than enjoy this title. Alright that's all from me. Have the day you deserve!

-Raz

[sith-shenanigans]

Jolee is the anti-Kreia. no I will not elaborate

[knightotoc]

Prequels Discourse by Layer

Crust: Normies & Haters vs All Prequels Fans

Topics: Jar Jar; George Lucas and authorial intent; “It’s cool to like them now;” nostalgia; memes; Hayden’s acting; CGI vs practical effects; the Bush years; cringe; racism and sexism in the movies; bullying of prequels actors and younger fans Topics from Deeper into the Crust: the originals vs the prequels; the 70s/80s fandom vs the 00s fandom; “RotS is good but the other two suck;” “The podrace/Darth Maul/Ewan’s acting is the only good thing about them;” conversion from hating them to liking them; any other opinion changes over the past 20 years; the value of dramatic irony within tragedy; “Is it fun to be sad?”

Mantle: Gatekeeping and Fragmentation

Topics: all prequels-related Fandom Menace bullshit; the EU; Disney (“Do they hate the prequels?”); the sequels vs the prequels; the new canon vs the EU; the old fandom vs the post-TFA fandom; racism and sexism in the fandom Topics from Deeper into the Mantle: “The Clone Wars cartoon and/or KotOR are better than the prequel movies;” all other comparisons of prequels-inspired spinoffs; Ahsoka; Revan; Dave Filoni

Outer Core: Intrafandom Queasiness

Topics: all pro-Jedi vs anti-Jedi discourse; the clones’ slavery; Order 66 by brainwashing vs Order 66 by chips; racism and sexism in the cartoon; religion discourse; shipping discourse; Ray Park; Rosario Dawson Topics from Deeper into the Outer Core: anything else anyone has to say about Obi-Wan specifically

Inner Core: Oh Anakin, We’re Really in It Now

Topics: Dark Horse comics vs Marvel comics; the prequels vs the High Republic; Genndy Tartakovsky; deleted scenes and unused content; Matthew Stover; Jude Watson; Karen Traviss; KotOR deepdives; Chris Avellone; racism and sexism in the video games, novels, and comics; Kreia Topics from Deeper into the Inner Core: anything from the 90s besides TPM

[violasarecool]

*Tries to say something about Hooded Man vs Kreia but the anti spoiler squad beats me up*

lmao