#anti caleo

[wierdshenanigans]

Imagine if Leo and Calypso didn't fall in love but instead just...talked? If they befriended each other? Because Calypso is eager to find someone to vent to and really, Leo needs to find someone to share his sorrows with,and who would understand his insecurities better than a girl who was left alon in Ogygia for so many years with every person she falls in love with having another whom they have to return to?

IMAGINE THE IMPACT ON THE READERS IF CALEO WAS PLATONIC, IF LEO WAS SAILING AWAY IN A BOAT HE BUILT PROMISING ON THE RIVER STYX HE WOULD COME BACK FOR CALYPSO BECAUSE SHE DESERVES BETTER AND IS HIS FRIEND, AND HE KNOWS FIRSTHAND WHAT IT'S LIKE BEING THE SECOND CHOICE AND SHE DESERVES, FOR ONCE, FOR SOMEONE TO LET HER OUT???THE PLATONIC IMPACT, THE MEANINGFULLNESS AND FRIENDSHIP OF THAT

[green-tea217]

it’s 2024 wdym Jason is still dead and Leo and calypso are still dating??

[lavndvrr]

Leo is so shippable like Rick could have put him with anyone but he chose to put Leo with Calypso FREAKING CALYPSO!!!!!

[child-of-helios]

Calypso x Leo SUCKS, here is why

Look, I get why that sounds harsh, and it is, but hear me out.

First and most importantly, Calypso is a pedophile. We see her fall in love with 14 year old Percy, then 15/16 year old Leo. Already weird, right? And look, if we got some explanation as to why it would ever be okay for a titaness who is thousands of years old to fall in love with CHILDREN, maybe I could see past it.

BUT in the odyssey myth, Odysseus was MUCH older than a teenager. He was already noted to be an old wise king (who was old enough to feign madness from old age) at the START of the Trojan war. Now that war lasted 10 years and add to that the multiple years he spent traveling to Ithaca, and you got an old-ass man. So either Calypso was already a mature adult, or a child thirsting after some old dude. Sure, it happens, but weird. Let's not forget that Odysseus was married and very much still in love with his WIFE Penelope, but Calypso basically kept him hostage on her island and would not let him leave at all.

Now let's get to Percy, he got blamed for not making sure that the gods kept their promise??? Good sir that is a 16 year old who just got out of a WAR and had his memory stolen, of course he didn't check with the gods. ITS NOT HIS RESPONSIBILITY! He shouldn't be held accountable. Also let me remind you that Calypso wanted him when he was 14. Not a good look.

And finally, we get to Leo. Poor poor Leo. A boy who was oh-so starved for love that he took anything he could get, and that's my explanation as to why Calypso x Leo ever happened. Honestly, I adored Leo. I had a crush on him (still kinda do shhh), I won't lie. However, I also adored Annabeth but since her and Percy are amazing together, I could get behind Percabeth. But Caleo? Hell no. Sure, they have a fun dynamic, but it's more of a sibling dynamic in my opinion. I would've rather had Leo x Khione or something. Maybe Leo x Echo cause that would've been adorable. But Caleo??? No. He should've never gone back for her. Leave her to rot.

Secondly, Calypso is simply a jerk. And I'm the type of person who adores asshole characters when done right. Octavian is great because he's an irredeemable asshole AND he gets karma. But Calypso? She's a bitch and gets such a kindhearted boyfriend in return. Like I said, she tried to pressure a (married) man into sleeping with her and is simply a dick to Leo (HER BOYFRIEND) and I could understand if they were siblings, cause siblings are dicks to eachother with love underneath, but she just sucks. She immediately hated him, which she has reason to do after what happened to her, but even after that she was just horrible to Leo. I seriously don't see why he loves, likes, or even tolerates her.

In conclusion, I hate what Rick did to Leo. I adore his stories like no other (which is why I'm so passionate about this), but he really fumbled the bag here. Calypso is just not a good fit for Leo.

Personally I really do prefer Leo x Jason, Leo x Nico or even Leo x Echo. And yes it does sound weird for me to say that considering that I call Calypso a pedo, but I could see Echo not being able to age normally because of being stuck with Narcissus. Echo x Leo is in my opinion much better than Calypso x Leo.

Um sorry- that was really mean but I needed to say that.

On a lighter note I saw this really long worm which was cool! :D

[hyp3rfr0g]

pjo takes that would have gottten me crucifed in 2014

okay, some of these probably aren't so bad but idk

rachel isn't that bad of a character. You guys just hated her because she "got in the way of percabeth

Octavian isn't that bad of a character. He was just really poorly written. If Rick gave him a sob story you guys would be falling at his knees.

Caleo sucks ass. The age gap is just rlly weird (not in a good way)

[kermitthesog]

I think Uncle Rick was really harsh when it came to Leo. And yeah, a lot of people talk about his backstory and that being really sad, but I’m here to talk about his ending and future.

He never found his soulmate. All of his other friends did, (well Piper and Jason didn’t last forever, but they were still really close) but he didn’t. The one time he found somebody, she was toxic and just plain mean to him. Calypso said, “You can’t fix everything, Leo.” even though this is clearly a coping mechanism for his trauma. In the end, they didn’t work out. But even that wasn’t the worst part.

It’s the Jason part of it. He was away for too long and didn’t get to say goodbye to Jason or hi for that matter. He didn’t get to say a word to him before he died. All he saw when he came back was a coffin and Piper telling him the story. This was his best friend ever. And the fact that he not only lost Jason, but Leo and Piper separated very far apart. The Lost Trio shattered, and Leo isn’t getting any happier.

[perseas-wellyboots]

The Luke Castellan problem in PJO books and Fandom

I just finished rereading the pjo series for the dozenth time and I have so many thoughts about Luke and how the fandom woobified him.

Like no Luke did not have the right idea and executed it in the wrong way. He wasn't a misguided victim, although there is no doubt Kronos manipulated him. But him being manipulated does not absolve him of his wrongdoings. Hurt people can still hurt people, you can be abused and still become an abuser.

Most of Fandom's idea of Luke being a 'hero' because he did the right thing in the end is extremely doozy like ok he killed himself to stop Kronos but that does not absolve him the blame of killing innocent people.

While Luke's main goal was the destruction of Gods, that was not because he wanted the demigods to have better lives. He actively killed demigods.

In the Sea of Monsters, when Percy, Annabeth and Tyson snuck into Princess Andromeda; they saw 12 year olds being trained how to kill a 'dummy in camp half blood tshirts'. He was actively exploiting children and manipulating them into killing other children and saw nothing wrong with it.

He only considered deflecting from Kronos when he found out that he was going to be possessed by him.

He only worked and cared for him, he was so lost into power and revenge that HE became a monster.

"Oh but he cared for Thalia and Annabeth!!" I'll get into that later too

I think Luke's fatal flaw contrary to the opinion of fandom is The Urge to Prove Himself.

He had one conversation with Hermes which made him angry and bitter and Thalia even notes that after that conversation Luke got into more and more fights with monsters like he had something to prove which Annabeth didnt seem to see as a problem since he was her hero. They got into more skirmishes because of his recklessness, fighting more monsters since Luke wanted to pick a fight with each one he came across.

(Conversation from PJO, The Last Olympian)

His fatal flaw being to Prove Himself would explain why he took the failure of his quest so hard that the night he returned from the quest was the same night Kronos started speaking to him for the first time. It didn't help that when he returned from his failed quest, the campers treated him with pity.

He wanted to pull Olympus down stone by stone because He failed his quest that he didn't want to do because it was already done by Hercules once. 🥴

His endgame has nothing to do with wanting to help ANYBODY. He wanted to take down gods because he had a grudge against them and wanted to Prove that he could do it. Everything else comes secondary if it fits his agenda.

This is one of the reasons why it bothers me so much when people say that Luke had the right idea or that Percy would have joined Kronos if Sally had died like you fundamentally misunderstood the character of Percy if you think he would have joined Kronos.

He talks about "driving humanity back into caves, all except the strongest - who would serve him" THIS IS LITERALLY FASCISM???

(According to Merriam-Webster, Fascism is a political philosophy, movement, or regime that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression)

Now onto the topic of Thalia, Annabeth and Luke

First of all, I absolutely hate that 'Thalia and Luke had a thing before she got turned into a tree bit' because Thalia was 12 and Luke was 14 when they met and Thalia was 15 and Luke was 20-21ish when they meet again in TTC ugh hate that.

Now TTC, where to begin, here I used to believe Luke had already bathed in river Styx as there are some narrations where Percy notes that Luke looked worse and like his scar was reopened and would certainly explain how he survived the cliff fall but on my rereading I realised that Thalia and Luke fought when Percy was holding the sky and Thalia injured Luke so nvm then.

It is however in this book that Luke began to realise Kronos's plan for him as it is implied by the General and he starts to fear for his life.

Mind you, what did Luke think would happen if Thalia did agree to join Kronos when he knew Kronos was looking for a host of body...

Luke is many things, he is cunning, manipulative, a great swordsman but what he is not is stupid. If Thalia would have agreed then Kronos would have used Thalia as a vessel 😬

And oh boy the can of worms that is Luke and Annabeth. I've seen many Luke fans/apologists deny that there is no canon evidence of Luke being romantically interested in Annabeth BUT THERE IS?? they refuse to believe and call Annabeth an unreliable narrator because otherwise their uwu white boy would be a Pedophile. Even if he wasn't a Pedo, he manipulated Annabeth so many times to make her sympathise with her and use her emotions against her.

(excerpts from various books: TLO, TLO, BoTL, MoA annabeth's pov)

^ Annabeth was 15 almost 16 or already 16 I believe when Luke asked her to run away with him in a romantic sense and he was 21-22.

also another evidence adding to the theory of his fatal flaw having proving himself.

Now, onto the topic of CHB and Luke:

Luke being hesitant to attack camp half blood in BotL has less to do with him suddenly growing a spine (as some fans suggest) and more to do with the inevitable possession.

When Kronos informs that he will himself lead the attack, Luke advises to use Hyperion instead because he knows for Kronos to attack it in person, he would finally possess Luke.

(first one is from TTC, the other two from BoTL)

One of the last things I wanna talk about is Silena Beauregard & Luke and Luke's portrayal in the new Percy Jackson series:

Luke was 17 when Kronos started speaking to him and 19 when he left the camp. Silena was 17-18 when she died which makes her 13-14 when Luke left the camp in TLT and 11-12 when Kronos first started talking to him. Adult Luke charmed an underage girl, and promised her that she was helping the demigods and then when she tried to stop, he started blackmailing her. [excerpts from TLO]

According to the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children UK, Grooming is when someone builds a relationship, trust and emotional connection with a child or young person so they can manipulate, exploit and abuse them. The relationship a groomer builds can take different forms. This could be: a romantic relationship, as a mentor, an authority figure, a dominant and persistent figure. They might use blackmail to make a child feel guilt and shame or introduce the idea of 'secrets' to control, frighten and intimidate.

So canonically, Book!Luke is a fascist groomer pedophile.

Now on the new Disney+ Percy Jackson show, it seems that Rick Riordan is subtly rewriting the character of Luke and removing the more problematic aspect of him (pedophile and grooming). Let me explain why I think that:

Even though in TLT the book, Luke describes Annabeth as his little sister we know how well that lasted but I don't think they are keeping Annabeth's crush on him on the show from what I've seen (though I could be wrong).

Secondly, the casting of Dior Goodjohn as Clarisse puts Clarisse on the same age range as Luke, maybe a year or two younger but in the first book Clarisse was 13-14 and she was 17 in TLO, so they have aged her up. It is my assumption that they will also age Silena by casting a 17-19 yr old actress as her.

And they have made Luke far more sympathetic in the show than the books (him not calling a hellhound during capture the flag and no pit scorpions in the finale), but we wouldn't know how sympathetic or villainous they are making him until season 2 comes out. Charlie Bushnell gives an excellent performance imo

Though this again reflects the double standards it comes to PJO, they have given much grace and praise for the changes made to Luke's character and little to no complaint for ageing up Clarisse but the hate Walker and especially Leah are given is so cruel. Leah has been so much racially targeted though I think she's an excellent Annabeth, just something to think about.

Also, before I forget-

We don't give enough flack to Rick Riordan for writing two weird age dynamics without recognising as grooming and pedophilic nature. (Lukabeth and Caleo/Capercy)

The characters are never made to realise (especially Annabeth) that an older person having feelings for them as a minor is not a normal behaviour.

Especially in regards to Calypso who may take the form of a 15 year old but is actually more than 4612 (according to the riordan wiki) and her having a crush on 14 year old Percy and 15-16 yr old Leo Valdez, not to mention how rudely she treated Leo. Also her cursing Annabeth because Percy left her. Not only is it plain nasty but she's never called out. Its actually so disgusting🤕.

Anyways this turned into a long rant but I would love to read your opinions, especially on Luke's fatal flaw.

I know for some people it may seem like I'm too hard on him but this is just my opinion.

IMO I have no problem if you like a morally bad or gray person, an antihero or a villain as long as their bad deeds aren't swept under the rug and pretend they never happened or glorify their good deeds.

I actually think villian's bad things make them more interesting.

Luke is an antagonist and a villain of the PJO series and a part of being a villain is that some people are going to hate you and that's ok.

Me personally, I was never a fan of his and that's ok.

I know some people are going to bring up the fact that Percy in MoA sympathises but the PJO characters are complicated and Luke was very skilled at making others think of his reason to destroy the Gods the way they would sympathise the most and we see that multiple times.

[no1valgraceshipper]

Rating ships bc I’m bored,

Percabeth - 100000000/10 like obv

Jercy - 10/10 I love Jercy sm u don’t understand

Valgrace - 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000/10 all I write abt is them

Solangelo - 10/10 Jsjsjs grumpy x sunshine

Shelper - they seem so cute together so far so prob like 7.5/10

Jasper/Jiper - 2/10 Pipers fake memories were cute ig?

Jeyna - IF Reyna wasn’t aroace they could’ve been cute so 4/10 don’t ship it tho

Theyna - NO. they r both huntress of Artemis ??? 0/10

Pernico - disrespectfully jail xoxo -1010918282828/10

Jasico - same as Pernico just a little less minus numbers -291982/10

Valdangelo - they r so cute 8.5/10

Pipabeth - AAAA I love them sm !! 9.5/10

Rachbeth - I don’t read much of it but from what I’ve read it’s pretty cool !! 7.5/10

Perchel - I don’t like them together :c 3/10 the kiss was cute tho

Frazel - 9/10 bc the age is a bit iffy

Caleo - -179229682698729872692862/10 rot in the pits of Tartarus tysm!!

sanubis - -17198719816186881868816/10 same as caleo

Zarter - don’t rlly know bc it was kinda fake for a lot of the ship?? But they r not bad so 6/10

Fierrochase - YESSSSSSSSSSSSS 272987298272/10

Bliztstone - 161671816/10 it’s canon idc what u say /hj

lmk if I missed any u ship ??

[via-rant]

Leo who doesn't believe he deserves love so he's confused as to why anyone tells him they do. He tells them he loves them too and doesn't know how long it'll last. But it does with Piper the first time they ran into each other at the Wilderness School while they were being chased by security for sneaking out before they caught them. It lasts with Jason when he told him it wasn't his fault in the sewer. It lasts with Annabeth who stayed up with him while building the Argo || and they encouraged each other to take care of themselves. It lasts with Percy when he apologized for attacking him. It lasts with Hazel and Frank when he saved their lives no matter the cost. He stays with Calypso because all this... love is overwhelming and he needs someone to tell him he won't make it. He deserves someone who will tell him the truth, no matter how much it hurt. He deserves this... right?

[dootznbootz]

If Rick changed Medusa for the Roman Myth in the TV show to be more 'sensitive', then he better do the same with calling out Calypso and what SHE did to Odysseus as well.

I still like PJO even though some of the changes Riordan did aren't great and make me sad but I feel like I can still enjoy it to a degree. But I am genuinely stumped and a bit disturbed by how he decided to make Calypso a sweet, sad, lonely "good person". Sure, she's sad and lonely but she is NOT sweet. To me, she reads off as cruel to Leo but even then, why tf does he write her as a good person or someone we should be rooting for?

Her only big myth is basically in the Odyssey where she imprisons and rapes Odysseus for 7 years. In mythology, others do that too but these immortals ALSO have other myths that define them. This one myth is practically her ONLY ONE!

At night he slept beside her in the hollow cave, as he was forced to do—not of his own free will, though she was keen enough. But in the daylight hours he’d sit down on the rocks along the beach, his heart straining with tears and groans and sorrow, as he gazed, through his tears, over the restless sea

(Ian Johnston, Book 5)

Another translation of the same passage by E.V. Rieu

At nights, it is true, he had to sleep with her under the roof of the cavern, cold lover with an ardent dame. But the days found him sitting on the rocks or sands, torturing himself with tears and groans and heartache, and looking out with streaming eyes across the watery wilderness.

Rick, dude, how did you read the Odyssey and see her as someone to sympathize with? Plenty of lonely people are out there and they don't do what Calypso fucking did!

It kind of freaks me out that Percy was near this woman as she's over a thousand years old and he's 14 at this point. Even if it WAS for a short amount of time. And pairing her with Leo? These kids should not be anywhere NEAR her!

idk, I doubt he'll fix this in the show but I can hope :')

[st4rshipr4nger]

caleo sucked but some of yall arent ready for that conversation

[wierdshenanigans]

AU where Leo and Calypso don't develop romantic feelings, because it wasn't the Fates that sent him there but the ice goddess Khione.

AU where Leo and Calypso bond. They become friends and talk about how it feels to always be the second choice, as Leo felt like the second choice with all his friends and Calypso always was the second choice with all her loves.

AU where Calypso and Leo become friends, and they do care deeply for each other, as the other is the first beautiful person who they just don't fall in love with. Calypso has only had for company someone she develops feelings for, but Leo is just a friend and she does love him because he is a good friend. Leo doesn't fall for Calypso, but he understands her and he cares about her.

AU where Leo swears to come back for Calypso as he successfully sails on the boat he built, not a magical raft that comes for him. He swears to come back for her anyway, because she is his friend and she deserved better than to be stuck on an island, alone for eternity.

AU where Leo comes back for Calypso and she joins the Hunters of Artemis, because that is a place she feels she belongs.

AU where Leo and Calypso remain friends, but nothing more

AU WHERE LEO AND CALYPSO ARE FRIENDS WHO CARE PLATONICALLY BUT DEEPLY FOR EACH OTHER BECAUSE THAT WOULD HAVE WORKED OUT BETTER THAN THEM BEING A COUPLE

[green-tea217]

Leo actually gets a good character arc instead of solving his trauma with a girlfriend send post

[lavndvrr]

i was just telling my bestie about how much I hate calypso and now she’s trying to guess who I ship Leo with by listing off every female character in the books

[thatonefandomjumper]

Once again I am expressing how much I hate the punching line gag.

Leo, a character that's been canonically abused his whole life and struggles with major self worth issues, who'd died to save the world and has spent the last few months in the company of a person that treats him like dirt, finally comes back to the one place he felt a smidge of comfort an safety in after years of instability and hardships, and what greets him...?

A guy so mad that he didn't discuss his suicide with him first (despite him properly coming up with the plan after said guy had left the Argo) that he organizes everyone in the camp to line up and hit him, even people he doesn't know.

And he has no choice but to just laugh it off, because it's clear that no one has any sympathy for him. And Leo realizes this place rejected him too.

[soapywankenopy]

Leo is such a great character, and it's terrible that it was all thrown away for a pointless, disturbing and illegal "romance."

I'm not even against him getting into a relationship, although I do think he needed to grow more as a character before that.

I'm against him and Calypso. Why Rick? Why put something so weird and disturbing into your story for kids?

The way that Apollo mentions off handedly that she's actually way older than him? The way that Calypso talks to Leo is really weird and controlling. She almost talks to him the way that a mother talks to a toddler (a dynamic with a smaller age gap than theirs, might I add). And I saw someone trying to defend it, saying something like, 'Well, it's fine because didn't it say that she's still mentally 16?' First of all, there is mention that she looks like a teenager, but no, no mention of "mental age." Second of all, I reject that argument. She acts like an adult, she acts like an immortal. It's one thing for her to "fall in love" with Odysseus because he's a whole adult man (still icky for me, and there a some versions where she forces herself on him and he doesn't consent, but I digress) but to "fall for" Percy the 14 year old, and then Leo, the 16 year old? Yuck. Why?

Like yeah, I can sympathize with Calypso, being imprisoned on an island forever? Tough break. No excuse to justify getting with a teenager.

Leo had such an interesting arc, and the whole thing with Nemesis telling him he'd always be "an outsider," that was interesting! There's so much potential there! The reason I disliked the Heroes of Olympus so much was because there was TOO much romance. It was so refreshing to have Leo outside of that (kind of outside of it, there was that whole stupid "love triangle" nonsense with Frank and Hazel). And then, of course, we have to get some gross, out of nowhere "romance" plot.

I guess this didn't really say anything that hadn't been said before, but yeah.