#anti louis pointe du lac

[anime-villian-irl]

I bring a sort of "everyone should just get in one giant fuck pile" energy that the interview with the vampire fandom doesn't appreciate.

[thedailydescent]

The thing is though that it doesn't matter.

People clamor against the idea that Louis ever loved or even liked Armand, and that he was just with him out of fear/to protect Claudia. That narrative quickly falls apart when you look at how completely at ease he was with embarrassing Armand in front of the coven, the promise he made to Claudia that he broke when he tried burning Armand's photo, then couldn't because of the soul he managed to capture. The additional knowledge since 2x03 that Armand is heavily influenced by the coven and their demands, and even after a year and half of them being together, he is still so. How it would have made more sense, if Louis was just with him for survival's sake or to protect Claudia, to leave Paris with Armand already recommending that he leave with his blessing. Madeleine feeling Louis's love for Armand (which wasn't her misreading it as love for Lestat, and, as far as I'm aware, is not canon either). How the very premise of the interview is about Louis processing his grief for Claudia and how he failed her. How the writing, cast, and crew emphasize that Louis feels a certain amount of entitlement towards Claudia, how he never truly put her first despite his best efforts, and how that doesn't make Louis a bad person, but a person shaped by and is stuck in traumatic circumstances.

Same with people accusing Louis of using Armand/not loving Armand the "right way". 95% of garbage "pimp Louis" takes and fics with poor unloved helpless Armand suffering the most from their roleplaying or Louis's cruising. Nevermind what was actually shown onscreen, what the cast and crew tell us.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter if Louis didn't do everything he could to protect Claudia. It doesn't matter if Louis was indeed a terrible partner to Armand (he wasn't btw). Nothing would have justified what Armand did to Louis and Claudia. Louis shouldn't have to be on 24/7 survival mode to avoid him and Claudia being lynched. If Louis had indeed been an awful person to both Claudia and Armand, he still wouldn't have at fault for the trial, or been the reason it happened. He is still the wronged party here. For the deception leading up to it, for the torture, for the racial trauma inflicted on him and past trauma used against him, for being buried and starved in rocks for days, for the murder of Claudia and Madeleine, and for the lies and manipulation 73 years afterwards. Louis doesn't need to be the perfect victim for Armand to still be the bad one. Armand could have prevented it at any time. Louis could not, nor should have had to.

Similar idea to people saying Louis never asked Armand to erase his memories. If we were to take burnt Louis taking a shower after three days as true (which I do), isn't the issue not, "It doesn't make sense therefore Armand is lying", but more, Armand's blood is so powerful it can heal a severely burnt person enough to be able to take a shower within a short period of time, yet he purposefully withheld it from Louis during those 5/6 nights in San Francisco? Or, Armand erased Louis's memories at Louis's request but also included said request for it, leaving him to rely on Armand on what is true and what isn't? Armand doesn't actually look any better here if he's telling the truth!

Likewise, since people parallel the two situations, some people were still questioning for months after Season 1 aired if Lestat had been telling the truth that he didn't kill Paul (which I always believed), that I guess Sam Reid grew impatient with that and finally said "Can we stop asking if Lestat killed Paul?!" or something. And it's true, Lestat didn't mind-control Paul to commit suicide. That still doesn't negate the fact that Lestat did get into Paul's head at dinner threatening him and his family, used his mental illness against him, leaving him frightened for Louis until the day he died. That still doesn't negate the fact that for 26 years, Lestat let Louis sit on whether he did or didn't. Louis died the day Paul was buried, but Lestat never comforted him about Paul, never brought up Paul, and changed the subject whenever Louis brought up his family. Lestat, in short, never considered Louis's grief or paranoia against him, nor cared to. For 26 years, he did not care.

[sgian-dubh]

the difference in passion between louis with armand (chaste kisses, distanced, interrupted) and louis with hallucination lestat (i love you so much i want to kill you again but only after i kiss you) is crazy. fumble each other indeed.

[sukibenders]

Me, watching people villainize and hate show!Louis and Claudia for in ways that they didn't in regards to book and movie!Louis and Claudia;

[mwagneto]

the way everyone* immediately called bullshit on armand being incapable of interfering with the trial and being held captive LMAO

*except his boyfriend of 77 years

[yo-mamas-so-inactive-she]

Look, Lestat can drop dead and Louis can move on from him instantly and he would still NOT get back with Armand. Not in a billion years. Not the guy who planned the public lynching of his daughter. Armand KILLED Claudia. He wrote and directed the play that climaxed with BURNING Claudia. He wanted to do it.

The same man who could only get into Louis's pants after he openly and overtly threatened Claudia's life and Louis slept with him to protect her.

There is no love, trust or anything left between Armand and Louis. It's delusional and distasteful to even think otherwise. The writers can't possibly get these two back together, even as FRIENDS, without looking like absolute hacks.

[thegetdownrebooter]

“White master, black student but equal in the dark“

Die Daniel.

[positively--speculative]

It's really unfortunate that a number of people (mostly white people) in the IWTV fandom here on Tumblr seem to have this watered down view of the gothic genre as "cool, sexy monster stuff." I mean, yeah. That's *part* of it, but that's like, a very high school Hot Topic view of it. I mean, nothing wrong with liking the stuff you did in high school or Hot Topic, but it shows a lack of a deeper understanding.

I know I've ragged on Anne Rice a lot here, but I honestly think that this is partly her responsibility. Did she craft interesting characters? Yes. Did she give them flaws? Yes. But does she do a good job of challenging them? Not really. In fact, the way she frames then makes it seem like they're not flaws at all. I can accept the fact that slavery was normalized in Louis time, but I cannot accept the idea if no one in the story challenging it. It is not unreasonable for Daniel to be attracted to Louis during the interview, but at the very least, he should be uncomfortable with his attraction to him. Sometimes bad people are still attractive. That's an uncomfortable truth. But AR doesn't handle it this way. She never addresses it.

So, it's really not hard to understand why her fandom carries such limited views on uncomfortable matter, because her writing didn't challenge them to feel uncomfortable with their attraction to Louis. To Lestat. To even fucking Marius (who I won't get into here. Other people have already written about him here and have done so better than I can). AR made the sexy vampire books, and her fans just go along with all the awful things they do because, hey, they're monsters and it's cool because they live outside human expectations of morality (even though Louis was awful before becoming a monster). AR presents shock value, but doesn't address what's shocking. Her fandom, in fact, seems to take pride in illustrating no shock over what is shocking. This, in my opinion, is an illustration of *failure* to create an effective gothic story.

The show does a much better job, in my opinion, at presenting something gothic. I, a Black biracial woman of the audience, should not be attracted to Lestat. But I *am.* I shouldn't be attracted to Louis, but I *am.* I shouldn't be looking at their family dynamic with Claudia in her earlier days as a vampire through heart-shaped lenses, but I *do.* And it's uncomfortable. It's supposed to be. And I think Daniel's character does a good job of bringing the audience back into the horrible reality of the situation and causes us to check ourselves.

And I think white fandom really does a disservice to Jacob Anderson *AND* Sam Reid by trying to argue with Black fandom over the subject of race. Racism is a central theme in this version of the story. But they don't want us to talk about it, because they're uncomfortable with it. They'd rather pretend it doesn't exist and doesn't need to be discussed. But it's *supposed* to make them uncomfortable. They're just not used to seeing the benefits of being challenged, because AR never did. And unfortunately, they're missing out in a very fulfilling part of enjoying the story because they want to keep themselves in a little bubble where they can pat each other on their backs for not being shocked by shocking things and never growing as people.

[ultrapoppet]

I agree with the gist of Louis and Cluadia being fellow abuse victims and unlike Lestat he never did anything to phisycally abuse her (well he did choke her after Lestat's murder and draged her on the floor like a ragdoll before her turning but lets ignore that as fans typically do) and he loves her deeply but I feel like making a child responsible for your emotional well being is still a little emotionally abusive. And it starts before Lestat's abuse. He spends seven years asking her to come back just because he was miserable without her, ignoring her wish for independance. And before coming back Cluadia says she now realizes Louis made her to be the sister he's lost. It's sweet that she comes back for him and comforts him but his emotional well being shouldn't be her responsibility and she shouldn't feel like a replacement for his adult family. Thats why she switches to sister from daughter imo. In addition to wanting to be seen as older, she realizes that she's going to be the one doing the parenting, not Louis. Same with the fact that after the drop, she feels like she has to protect Louis from Lestat and avenge his abuse.

My recollection of that the train scene is that Louis doesn't want to leave and prefered to stay with Lestat over going with Claudia. And when we dont see him protest the fact that Lestat brought her back, which according to him was for Louis and Louis alone, I assumed that was because he was relieved that she's back so he just went with it. Maybe I'm wrong but we haven't seen anything to the contrary. And again after this Claudia has to convince Louis to leave Lestat. He didn't want to leave.

I don't think it's fair to characterize Lestat as this angry father and husband constantly on the verge of abuse either or say that Louis and Claudia were living in constant fear, especially pre drop, but that's not a hill I'm currently willing to die on. But my point is Louis's shortcomings as a parent wasn't just refusing to leave and kill Lestat. It started from the moment he wanted to have a kid as a band aid for a shitty marriage as Daniel put it, or an emotional support pet as Lestat put it, instead of her own person who he'd be responsible for.

And it didn't end with Lestat either. He didn't believe her about Armand choking her. Then he willingly chose to spend the rest his life with the person who he knew was responsible for her murder. And as Claudia says before they met the coven, she was tired of being his anchor and his reason for happiness. He put so much on her that a parent shouldn't put on a child.

[michealsleepdeprived]

Honestly I never understood people who dislike the ex of their lovers. Like it happened a long time ago lol it's nothing now babe :)

But now I understand. I'm sorry y'all are valid because the hate I have for Nicki? Like brother? On sight with that man.

He just- ajshjjwh. Get awayyyy. Die sooner or some sh-t. It feels as though Lestat cheated for real real with Nicki on Louis even though Louis wasn't even born yet. And you're telling me we're about to talk about him in detail in season three??? (Insert Louis' look of disgust)

...no.

I'm being immature about this but I refuse to believe Lestat loved anyone as much as he loved Louis. Nah. Nope. Never. I'm only being consoled by that ring on Lestat's finger. Call me insane idc.

[eclecticelectriceccentric]

it's super funny to imagine that (in the tv show) the first book of the vampire chronicles is what louis told daniel in 1973. lol

"he was ugly and stupid and I hated him like basically immediately and I'm soooooo much better than him"

[deaddee-anime-brownfanlady]

As much as I love and enjoy Interview with the vampire a lot and can't wait for the new season.

I do tend to notice some of the more racist bullshit takes and aspects of anti-blackness dealing with Louis and Claudia in how they are treated by some white fans and white Iwtv Anna Rice book fans.

I can't say that I'm surprised or shocked by it sadly, because of course that this modern adaptation of a popular but old-ass book series made into an full TV show were Louis de pointe du Lac is an Creole queer Black man that's deals with the many challenges and intricacies of being a gay black man during the 1900s and Claudia also being equally an black girl /woman in this adaptation and how that's plays into her struggles and crap she's has to deal with and Armand being South Asian in this show as well that you would obviously have upset or angered certain types of White fans of this series.

I knew from the very beginning when this show started that, of course, you'll definitely have racist shit dealing with parts of the fanbase. Because I swear I've seen this type of typical racist horseshit before within fandom spaces. It's just gets so damned tiring to see at times the same asinine shit I've seen before with how some white fans can be sometimes when it comes to black characters or non-white characters in media in terms of double standards differences.

On how black/brown characters always get met with far more scrutiny and harsher things against them than white characters in media from certain White fanboys or girls.

I especially noticed it sometimes dealing with Louis and how some white fans seem to project some very bad stereotypes on him with him being a Black man, or with Claudia as well with being an Black female character in how Black female characters tend to get treated badly by some White fans at times, even seeing some shit with Armand and his actor Assad and witnessing some awful racist crap targeted on Assad playing Armand by certain racist White fans being pissy that a Bangali man is playing the character of Armand and not some White male actor, or how some white fans seem to completely dismissed the racial aspects of the show and act like they aren't of importance.

Amongst other things, it's just... Ugh, again, it's not surprising... because I've seen this type of crap before. But man, I swear I get so tired of this type of shit when it comes to racist bullshit in fandoms or how you still got some White fans that still act like shit like this isn't a issue.

[thedailydescent]

Looking at a lot of Loustat shippers and how they view/talk about Louis, is making me think of the BtVS fandom, the first fandom I joined when I was 16/17.

Anyway, a lot of the Spuffy shippers were out there calling Buffy derogatory names, saying SHE was the actual abusive one in the relationship, writing the most vile essays/fanfiction about her needing to be brought down a peg and admit she was wrong and Spike was right, saying the show was boring without Spike, despite Buffy being the main character, could not talk about Buffy as a character separate from Spike, propping up James's acting skills over Sarah's, made it sound like Spike was a better parent to Dawn than Buffy was (?), saying that the other men she was in romantic relationships with were much more abusive than Spike, excusing Spike for basically all of his actions and woobifying him because of his trauma....

and then you'd have the more critical Spuffy/non-Spuffy shippers (mainly woc) pointing out the blatant misogyny and victim-blaming in this way of thinking, pointing out how Spike represents some of the worst aspects of racism and the patriarchy, both textually and subtextually, even providing scholarly articles and literature to back up their claims, and asking why do you even ship Spuffy if you hate Buffy? Which of course received extreme backlash and harassment from people racing to defend Spike themselves, saying, no of course they didn't hate Buffy, but Spike is more complex than you're making him sound, and no he's not a racist or hates women, he's actually a feminist and a punk/anarchist and doesn't kill based on race, you're just a vile sjw and an anti who loves ruining everyone else's fun.

Anyway. Why do you even ship Loustat if you hate Louis?

[brady-bunch02]

Something doesn’t quite sit right in my spirit when I see people trying to shift blame to Louis/Claudia….

[enbylestat]

Anti-hero

Anti-hero

the beginning.

Link: https://archiveofourown.org/works/48428218/chapters/122150491

Pairing: multi - but primarily Benjamin Tallmadge/an original character of mine & Lestat de Lioncourt/an original character of mine.

Fandom: multi-fandom crossover & my own original work. TURN: Washington’s Spies x My own original work x Vampire Chronicles by Anne Rice x the TTRPG Vampire: The Masquerade.

Rating: E - explicit. standard reminder to read tags and if you don’t like it, don’t read it.

Summary: An exploration in perspectives, heroism, anti-heroism, goodness, evil, love, mortality and what makes one a monster or the very nature of human?

Excerpt: Blue eyes mind you, were he of the fairer sex he’d fall into instantly, eyes that poor down like New York rain. Quite unlike his steely blue of the Auvergne in France. No words come to Lestat’s mouth but they don’t have to. It takes a liar to know a liar. — Lestat de Lioncourt

Chapters: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41

Playlist.

Archive of our own.

Link of links.

[wenellyb]

I'm obsessed with how Louis never told Lestat he loved him no matter how many times Lestat begged and yet he calls Rashid/Armand the love of his life. I don't know what it means but it's poetic cinema right there.