#anti mor

[litnerdwrites]

"Cassian would be such a good father!" "He's such a girl dad!" "I hope we get a Nessian baby in the next Acotar book!"

That would be the start of a horror story. Not because of the risk of death thing, since it was taken care of at the end of ACOSF. No. Nessian are not ready for a kid, and quite possibly never will be at this rate. There are 101 reasons why neither Nesta or Cassian would be good parents at this current stage in their relationship and their personal development, especially if the dynamic we see in the HOFAS bonus chapter is anything to go by.

When you become a parent, you are responsible for your child's physical, mental and emotional wellbeing, and should provide for them within the best of your abilities. That goes beyond food, shelter and clothing. It means support, love and encouragement, fostering a safe, nurturing environment for them to grow up, free to be themselves.

Nessian can't give that. Not entierly anyway. I don't believe that either of them wouldn't love their child. What concerns me is if they would love their child enough.

Cassian has proven time and time again that he will chose Rhysand over Nesta, no matter what. If he can't chose his damn mate, how could he chose his child. What would he do if it came down to choosing between his Rhysand and his mate & child?

We've established that the mating bond is likely to be the Cauldron's form of selective breeding based on power, so it's highly likely that their child would be incredibly powerful too. The IC have been shown to go as far as lie and manipulate their own in order to exploit their powers. That is what happened to Nesta in ACOSF time and time again. Hell, it's been happening since the IC met Nesta in ACOMAF.

It's not beyond possibility for the IC to lie and manipulate or guilt trip Nessian's child the way they did to Nesta, so they can exploit that power. The worst part is, Cassian, thus far, hasn't given us a reason to think he wouldn't go along with it. If Amren, or Rhysand decide they need Nessian's kid to do something "for the good of the court" but Nessian's kid doesn't want to, or is reluctant? Would Cassian really stand up to Rhysand for the sake of his child? He doesn't love Nesta enough to stand up for her, why would he try to stand up for his kid?

Even if he did stand up for NK, (I'm calling his and Nesta's hypothetical kid NK from this point on, to make things easier) what's to stop the IC from going behind his and Nesta's back? What's to stop Cassian, from going behind Nesta's back on the off chance that he agrees with the IC but Nesta refuses to allow it (assuming NK isn't an adult, which in this world is about 50-80 years)? I wouldn't put it past Nesta's own sisters, and so-called family to undermine her rights and position as NK's mother by going behind her back and making the kid do what they want anyway.

They might not even bother hiding it from her and, like the intervention, tell her it's happening, regardless of how she feels. What proof do we have that Cassian would stand up for her or NK? Would stop the IC, for his child's sake, and defend his mate's right as Nk's mother? He wouldn't. Current, cannon Cassian, wouldn't. He simply doesn't care for Nesta enough to defend her rights and boundaries as his mate, so we can't believe he would defend NK from the IC, if it came down to it.

Then there's the issue of Illyria. Some people are of the opinion that the bat boys would send their kids to Illyrian war camps because it's their culture, while others argue that they wouldn't because it was traumatising. Personally, I think certain parts of Illyrian culture needs to become part of their history instead, like the child soldiers, and wing clippings, for example, but that's not the point.

Rhysand claims to advocate for change and equality in Illyria by thrusting a sword into a woman's hand, and basically forcing them to train too. Based on the argument with Devlon in ACOFAS, it's safe to assume that some level of force and authority is being used to make the women train. But handing them a sword and making them train, presumably in skin tight leathers, while men gawk and stare at them, isn't Equality.

Equality, by definition, means that men and women have the same status, rights and opportunities.

Opportunity, by definition, is "A set of circumstances that makes it possible to do something".

Equality in Illyria won't exist until men and women alike have the choice to not be warriors. Women like Emerie are lucky enough to inherit businesses, but the social circumstances mean that while women may, technically, run businesses, social pressures prevent it. They either wouldn't get business, or other Illyrians might refuse to sell business licenses or stock to them.

These same social pressures are what the IC apply to women when they make them train with the men, without considering what they want. These are the same social pressures that the IC would apply to NK if they decided that they wanted her at these camps. Not only would they consent to leaving one of the youngest members of their 'family' with a people who are so openly hostile to them and to women in general, what are the odds that they would hear any objections from NK?

If NK said they didn't want to train, but the IC wanted them to become a warrior, either to help protect Velaris or to, once more, exploit their powers, or their potential strength (Illyrian killing power, whatever that is).

Cassian claims to love his people, but won't provide them with the opportunities they deserve. He doesn't look or listen to find out what they need, and he did the same to Nesta. He forced her to do things she didn't want to, without asking or understanding what she wanted or needed. If his child were to refuse training, or express interest in other areas, would he ignore them too? Would he force them to train as well?

If his child went through something traumatic (which is pretty much guaranteed with the IC as their family), would he resort to the same methods they used to break Nesta? Once again, we have no reason to believe he wouldn't strip his children of their personal choices, all so they become loyal, complacent weapons of the IC.

What's worse, is that those children may even become weapons to use against Nesta. Who's to stop the IC from telling Nesta's own kids lies and stories to turn them against her? They isolated her in an attempt to break her into compliance, what are the odds they wouldn't bar Nesta from her children? They used Elain to strong arm Nesta into doing their bedding, who's to say they wouldn't use her children? Or manipulate her children against her in some way? Who's to say Cassian wouldn't just let it happen, or even actively participate in the manipulation.

Cassian's loyalty and dedication to the IC would always come before Nesta and their potential children. He's not ready to be a father because he could never put his children before his brother or the rest of his family. The truth I'm seeing is that Cassian, clearly, doesn't love his mate, and probably wouldn't love his child as much as the IC. He wouldn't love them enough to stand up for them. He wouldn't love them enough to not manipulate or coerce them into using their body or powers in a way that the IC approves of (yeah, I also never thought I'd have to read, much less write, that a parent wouldn't love their kid enough to not manipulate them). He's unfit, at this point, to be a parent.

Moving on to Nesta, who still has several unresolved mommy issues, clearly. Her mother raised her to marry a prince and, assumedly, be the perfect wife. Given that the way women are treated in the mortal lands, it's not a stretch to imagine that part of that training would mean obeying her husband (or in this case, mate,) and looking the other way if he cheated, amongst other things.

These values may explain why Nesta isn't as assertive against the IC or Cassian as we'd like. Even if it's subconsciously, some of those values seem likely to be so ingrained in her that she can't break away, as we see when she takes Rhysand's abuse in HOFAS bonus chapter. It's also a fair to assume it may be part of the reason she does what the IC ask when searching for the trove. I'm not saying that those traditions and her mommy issues are the only reason why, there's plenty of other reasons why Nesta acts in these ways, including the brainwashing she got in ACOSF, but it's reasonable to assume that they're at least part of the reason why.

Speaking of brainwashing, Nesta was brainwashed in ACOSF. She was beat down and forced into submission to the point where she even tells Gwyn that she's glad Feyre did that for her. Nesta gave up her dream and desires to travel, her power, her autonomy, and her aspirations just to be subservient to the IC. She became barely a shell of who she was by the end of that book.

That's not to say this is Nesta's fault. Not by a long shot. This is a result of abuse at the hands of the IC, her mother and Cassian. Abuse that left Nesta way more vulnerable and malleable than she was before, stripping her of anything the IC didn't approve of. Meanwhile Cassian did nothing. She thought that she had to earn Cassian's love, despite him being her so-called mate. She seriously thought that she, as her parents' daughter, had to earn their love, for fucks sake people.

What happens if the IC decide that they don't like way NK is growing up, or that they don't like how the kid is dealing with potential trauma? Will they push Nesta into believing her own child doesn't deserve her love? Will Nesta, at any point, consider if her child doesn't deserve her love if they don't have an interest in training or court affairs or training their powers? f

Nesta, like Cassian, is unfit to be a parent, for similar, yet very different reasons. Nesta's self hatred and the lack of ability to stand up to the IC (not saying that's her fault) would bring into question if she would be able to stand up for her children. If Cassian won't stand up for either of them, then how would she, if she feels that her kids deserve better, and that the IC are better. If she feels powerless, and weak, because of their abuse, she likely wouldn't be able to stand up to them. If they come after her together, she wouldn't be able to stand up to them.

I'm not saying any of this is Nesta's fault. She is a victim of abuse. Plain and simple. However, it's also reasonable to decide that she'd be unfit as a parent at that point in time, in large part, due to the environment that was created around her. It's not an environment to raise a child. Especially since Nesta is so brainwashed that it took a stranger from another world (Ember) who knew nothing about her pointing out how messed up her situation was for her to begin considering it as a possibility.

Nesta's own self hatred wouldn't allow her to see anybody but herself as the problem, so she likely wouldn't stand up to the IC or Cassian for her kids, in part because it was so ingrained that she had to obey her husband, but also, in part, because she's less likely to be able to fully understand if or how the IC or Cassian's actions hurt them. Or to consider those actions unnecessary. Even if it came down to mating bond divorce being the best option, if kids are involved, she might not end up going through with it, which can often be worse for kids than a divorce.

Nesta would love her kids so fiercely, but it would be difficult for that love to outweigh the brainwashing, self hatred and abuse that has been engraved into her mind for practically her whole life. She wouldn't love them enough for it to overshadow those voices in her head, through, once again, no fault of her own.

Then the kid themselves. Bringing a child into that mess would be just as torturous for the poor kid.

Imagine what it would do to a child, seeing your uncle threaten to kill your mother, while your aunts, and father and rest of your family let it happen. All because your mother tried to do the right thing?

Or, another scenario, is if NK overhears their aunt (Mor) complaining about how horrible their mother is, and how she belongs in a place you were taught was terrible and evil because she's just like them.

What would it do to NK, to grow up hearing Amren, somebody their Uncle and mother trust and love, refer to their mom in reference to how useful her powers are, or to NK themselves by how useful they are to the court.

NK would likely be forced to do things they don't want to 'show a united front' or to train because it sets an example to the Illyrians. NK would be exploited for their potential power, an initiative likely spearheaded by Amren, and trained to be just as blindly loyal to Nyx as Cassian is to Rhysand.

The child would likely be left to Amren to train, with or without Nesta's consent, and even if she did find the strength to vehemently reject the IC's methods of trying to raise her kid, she'd be punished. She'd be locked up and told she was bad for her own child's wellbeing, while breaking down the poor kid the way they broke her down. They stripped Nesta of her autonomy and freedom. If she had a kid, it wouldn't be long before they stripped her of her role as a mother.

At the end of the day, Nessian wouldn't be great parents, because the IC aren't a great family. They have issue upon issue to work through before they can consider their relationship even somewhat functional or healthy, much less bring a child into it.

So no. Nessian doesn't need a kid. They'd be terrible parents and need to figure their own shit out before they even consider having a kid. Nesta isn't in a good place, mentally, physically, or emotionally, to be able to act with the kid's best interests at heart. Meanwhile Cassian is either delusional enough that he thinks Rhysand's best interests equal everybody's best interests, including his kid's. So, he won't bother to stop Rhys or the IC from using the kid however he wants.

Which is why I'm begging you. Please. No. No Nessian kid in the next book. Not in any book. Not unless SJM somehow fixes the relationship between Nesta and Cassian, and by that, I mean figure out how to fix Cassian's character from ACOSF.

(On a side note, Nesta's basically still a kid by fae standards, and so is Feyre. So why? Why would they not wait anyway? Cause ew.)

[hereathemoment]

I just remembered that Cassian sat across from Mor sipping tea while she talked about how Nesta should be in a dungeon or being tortured by being locked up in hewn city and he’s just there blown the fuck away by Mor’s beauty AND THEN LATER she winnows to Illyria where Cassian is training, ogles him and talks to Nesta about how she’ll never deserve him and how attractive he is

Nesta stood up for Cassian during the high lord meeting, in front of EVERYBODY and he can’t take his family aside and tell them to stop starting fights with her? He’ll stand in front of Mor when Eris is around but sit by and do nothing when Rhys threatens Nesta’s life?

He. Does. Not. Love. Her. Funny also that his attitude changed toward her after the war when she was taking other men to her bed. Sjm made her sleep around out of character so that nessian can have hate sex but sjm still virtue signals feminism as if Cassian in acowar wasn’t calling her sweetheart and Cassian in acomaf didn’t wipe away her tears in front of the queens and everyone. He promised her time together as his would-be last words. But then sjm writes that Nesta uses sex to cope and now all-of-a-sudden Cassian is telling her that everybody fucking hates her and that he never asked to be shackled to her. Making it clear she can only use sex as a coping mechanism if it’s sex WITH HIM.

Suddenly he’s not understanding. Suddenly he isn’t gentle with her. No, now he’s an incel who locks Nesta up until she caves and sleeps with him.

It’s hard to imagine a being with wings, who flies in the air, would want to confine his MATE to a house she can’t escape from. Azriel, too, was locked up as a boy and then acts as a prison guard against her? And for Feyre to be the one to do it when she was supposedly traumatized when Tamlin locked her in his mansion? I understand why elain packed her clothes and sent her on her way— she’s the type to save herself and if she sided with Nesta she’d be locked up alongside her.

I’m just saying, ACOSF is a lot to unpack and I’m still processing my shock and disgust years later. I truly can’t believe it happened.

[stargirlie25]

´´Everybody tried to help Nesta but she would not listen!´´

Everybody helping,

“You look horrible,” Amren said… . “though it’s hard to look good,” Amren went on, “when you’re out until the darkest hours of the night, drinking yourself stupid and fucking anything that comes your way.” -Amren

“Your sisters love you. I can’t for the life of me understand why, but they do. If you can’t be bothered to try for my happy little circle’s sake, then at least try for them.”-cassian

“You,” Cassian said from the armchair to her left. “This bullshit behavior.”-cassian

“Nesta is … she’s Illyrian. I mean that as a compliment, but she’s an Illyrian at heart. So there is no excuse for her behavior.”-Rhysand

“I’ll talk to her.” “Don’t,” Elain said flatly, “She won’t listen.” Like hell she wouldn’t.-Feyre and elain

“I want you out of Velaris,”-Feyre

“You have become a pathetic waste of life”-Amren this is actually exactly what nestas abusive grandmother said to her

If i could go to velaris, first person i attack would be amren and id win because this girl cant even reach my shoulder 🤪

The whole Inner circle should die.

I SWEAR ACOWAR CASSIAN WOULD NEVER TALK TO NESTA THAT WAY.

Elains gotta get out of the IC

[lorcandidlucienwill]

I don’t think people get it. There is nothing wrong with liking something in fiction that you would normally despise in real life. That is not my problem with Rhysand and the Inner Circle. My problem is when an author writes a story in a way that clearly shows they agree with these characters. I love a little freak as much as the next person, but not when you’re trying to convince me every two seconds they’re the good guy while they’re simultaneously doing bad shit. And yes it’s first person POV, so of course Feyre will think she’s right. This is why there needs to be a moral check. Suzanne Collins did this really well with The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes. Even without the existence of the OG series, you can tell the author/narrative does not agree with Coryo even though he thinks he’s right because Sejanus acted as a moral check, someone to challenge the MC’s view. Lucien could’ve been a moral check for Feyre. He so damn nearly was when he said “The girl I knew died under the Mountain.” BUT SJM DIDN’T COMMIT TO IT. Feylin could’ve been the tragic romance, Feysand the villain story. BUT SJM DIDN’T COMMIT TO IT. So instead, we have a half-baked hero who SJM clearly believes is in the right and not only is that poor writing but it reflects her irl beliefs. The way you think is reflected in the way you write. This series is targeted at impressionable teens when it’s clearly dark romance and I see people defending Rhysand and shitting on Tamlin and calling Rhys the hero. It’s ridiculous.

[imwritingthesewords]

“We’d be better off throwing Nesta into the court of nightmares. She’d thrive there”

I know you did not just say that. For truth being your power Mor, I think you need to get a reality check and dig up the knowledge I know you have that Nesta is not as bad as your goddamn parents or anyone in the court of nightmares 🙄

Please get off your high horse and touch some grass

[kataraavatara]

“ohhhh so nesta can be MEAN to the IC but they can’t do it back” i’m twenty. if a sixteen year old got under my skin that much to the point i was beefing with them i would end it all out of sheer humiliation. i don’t even want to imagine how embarrassing it would be if i was over 500 and a girl in her twenties got to me that bad. like was it really that serious.

[yoddhasblog]

One thing that makes me rage about ACOTAR every single day is that there is no mention at all about who did the household chores when Feyre was hunting.

It's canon that Feyre doesn't know how to cook. She doesn't do household work. She would spend the day in the forest hunting, which of course is a great thing in itself for a child( she was fourteen I think when she started hunting) but who took care of the house(hut).

Something tells me it wasn't Papa Archeron or Elain. In the first few chapters of Thorns and Roses Nesta had chopped wood twice(I think, it's been a while since I read the book). I'm assuming as there isn't much info about this that Nesta was the one to do all household work. There's cooking, cleaning, laundry, chopping wood, mending clothes, doing repairs around the house if required, groceries, and about a hundred other little tasks that keep a house running smoothly. Feyre didn't do it, Papa Archeron didn't do it, I can bet my life Elain didn't do it. Did magic faeries come to their house at night to do all this.

I don't understand where the narrative that Nesta was a spoiled and lazy girl who sat on her ass and didn't do anything came from. You know, my father had always told my sister and i, that whatever conflict we have between us, we should resolve it amongst ourselves. If you let a bunch of strangers know about the weaklinks in your relationships they will break you both apart. Of course, he tells us this due to our snake-ish relatives but honestly, when I had read about the relationship between the sisters, I wanted to scream at the book to not let the IC exploit their issues for personal gain. Which they did. That's exactly what Rhysand has been doing since he met the sisters.

[watcherintheweyr]

Genuine question

What was done to Nesta was basically what happens to survivors of Wilderness 'therapy'. You know. Those camps for troubled kids that have been being exposed in the past 10 or so years to be absolutely disastrous places of abuse and harm that some.kids literally don't survive?

She was forced to do physical labor while unused to it until she broke down, broke apart, and became compliant with what the Inner Circle wanted from her.

Which... still makes no sense.

Amren is a bitch and genuinely horrible to almost everyone but that's accepted and she's even loved for it.

Mor uses sex and drinking to cope with her trauma and she's often praised for it.

Why is it different with Nesta? Why is literal wilderness therapy being lauded as a wonderful, redeeming thing?

Do you have any idea the damage that 'therapy' like that causes?

[littlemisssatanist]

my acotar unpopular opinions

taking this time to come out as an acotar reader. yes i've read all the books and i've spent way too much time thinking about it. i enjoy the books in the sense that i enjoy hating on many of the characters and loving a few of the others.

be forewarned inner circle fans. you will not like this.

rhysand is not a 'morally grey' character. he's a rapist and a groomer. he sexually assaulted feyre utm, he groomed her (reminder that she was 19 in acotar), and he withheld important medical information from her. 'you'll always have a choice' my ass.

nesta telling feyre about her pregnancy was not a bad thing. why do people act like it is? 'oh she did it to hurt feyre' hurt her by doing what? revealing the lies that her beloved husband had woven? revealing the fact that she'd die giving birth? the fact that rhysand told literally everybody but feyre?

mor is not the champion for women everyone thinks she is. this i will give to sjm it is truly impressive to make a character like women and still be a pick me. i'm not even going to go into her whole weird ass relationship with her dad (i still don't understand why she wouldn't just kill him. 'oh rhys needed the army' rhys is supposed to be the most powerful high lord ever. either admit he's a fucking loser or give me an actual good reason for this) or the fact she's seemingly incapable of doing anything to help the women in the court of nightmares, but everytime she was mentioned, i had to let out a heavy sigh and rub my temples.

on a similar topic. i liked eris. like a lot. out of all the acotar characters sjm has written, eris is by far my favorite.

the inner circle needs to sit the fuck down. they are the most hypocritical bitches i've ever met. they like to think themselves high and mighty. reading them make fun of lucien's band of exiles while their name is literally 'court of dreamers' was the most infuriating thing ever. and then they have the gall to be insulted when called out. don't dish what you can't take.

out of all the inner circle, the only one i don't hate is azriel. this is simply because he is the only one who hasn't opened his big fat mouth and done something bad (except if you maybe count his whole thing with elain). cassian is on my hit list. it's on sight with cassian.

nessian is sjm's worst ship and i will stand by that. lucien/nesta could have been so much. 'nesta would have ripped lucien apart' and cassian was your first choice? not even azriel was considered? like be so for real right now. sjm didn't see the potential of lucien/nesta and i will forever mourn that.

sjm is a terrible writer. i'm not saying this to be mean but she seriously just sucks at it. that being said i admire her ability to still make millions of dollars off her shitty writing. as a woman, i am rooting for her. as a reader, every day i wake up a shoot a prayer to the heavens begging the gods to not let sjm write any more books from the inner circle's pov.

lucien/elain is better than azriel/elain. argue with the wall.

eris/azriel is better than azriel/elain. you can kiss my ass.

NESTA/ERIS IS BETTER THAN RHYSAND/FEYRE. i know this because i have been enlightened.

feyre is a victim to rhysand. that being said, she is also a major bitch. both can be true because these things are not mutually exclusive. i wish she could make friends outside of the ic like nesta did, but i know that's unlikely.

feyre's pregnancy storyline was completely useless and went against her whole character.

acomaf retconned everything about tamlin and feyre's relationship in order to make more money. idc.

tamlin gets a ridiculous amount of hate. rhysand is hypocritical. so tamlin locking feyre in a house because she wants to ride out with him into potential danger is terrible and abusive, but rhysand locking nesta in the house of wind for... *checks notes*... having sex and spending money on alcohol is helping her? what?

[lainalit]

Morrigan smells like pick me girl and stale discount wine

Amren smells like irrelevant character and rotten corpse

Feyre smells like billionaire trophy wife and old man fart (thanks to rhysand)

[litnerdwrites]

Cassian: I'm sick of these games.

Oh, I'm sorry, I wasn't aware that trauma was a game to you. If it's so easy to just stop being traumatised, then you should've said something to Elain about that a whole book ago? Or perhaps said something to Mor 5 centuries ago. Since Cassian made it clear 50 times a day that he's 'seen it before' and 'knows what she's feeling' or whatever, he must clearly be the expert on the situation. Imagine how much easier life will be now that everyone can just stop being traumatised.

Let's be serious for a moment though, if it was that easy, Cassian might have actually stopped making himself the victim in every scenario regarding Nesta throughout all of ACOFAS and ACOSF.

The fact SJM wrote it so Cassian, who said shit like this, was the one in the right the whole time in ACOSF makes me wanna puke.

[whitedemon-ladydeath]

you: mor was defending Feyre

me, an intellectual: except she's ignoring Feyres wishes of the IC staying out of the affairs involving her sisters, and is now pushing a vendetta on Feyres behalf that she explicitly said she didn't want

you: mor was defending Cassian

me, an intellectual: except Cassian was routinely ignoring the boundaries of a 23 yr old woman, following her home, getting in her space, harassing her and ignoring the verbal orders of telling him to leave her alone

[hereathemoment]

Sometimes I just think about how sjm literally had to exclude Mor from acosf because Cassian would never choose Nesta over her and so she couldn’t be there for their…… “love”…… story **cough***Stockholm Syndrom***cough** to happen

It’s actually insane. That entire story was batshit crazy but Mor is the last straw that breaks the camel’s back in regard to Nessian

Cassian has so many problems and the way he treats Nesta is gross but the juxtaposition between how he treats Nesta and how he treats the other women in his life 🤚🏻💀 it’s just adding insult to injury

[lorcandidlucienwill]

Tell me how this makes sense

Rhysand + IC: ok folks let's go do evil shit to protect the 1% of our court we actually decide to rule and let them think we're evil af to protect them from the totally evil people in the other courts. Also other courts: *thinks they're evil*

Rhysand + IC:

[kataraavatara]

ACOMAF: "...I prayed it meant no male would take me as a wife, that I would escape what my elder cousins had endured: loveless, sometimes brutal, marriages." Hey Mor. Morrigan. Are your elder cousins still in those loveless and brutal marriages. Has anyone checked up on them

[duaghterofstories]

Mmmm... I'm going to rewrite all of the Acotar series, but make it what we deserved. I can and will take suggestions. Things I already decided upon include:

No Tamlin villification.

Nesta not changing herself for Cassian, and Cassian remaining her whipped horndog husband in a couple that defines the 'Walk him like a dog' tiktok audio.

Making Rhysand an actual femenist.

Gay characters. And actual queer rep.

Fayre knows how to read and has actual fucking muscle.

I am also taking title suggestions.