#anti-Erasmian

[gemsofgreece]

Hi, I love Greece and your blog! As a lover of history, I studied 'Ancient' Greek for a time. I was curious, as a Greek, what your opinion is around the debate over the pronunciation of 'Ancient Greek vs 'Modern' Greek? Obviously as with many languages and their evolution, pronunciation has changed over time, but are there some clues/tricks that you are aware of to help people work out the most likely answer? Many thanks for your thoughts and keep up the good work (I especially like the music recommendations as I would not know them otherwise). Love from England!

Hello! Thank you for your nice words. I am glad the music recs have been helpful for you 😁

[For context for the people reading this: tattered-cynic refers to the use of the Erasmian pronunciation in Ancient Greek, which has been fiercely supported by Western scholars for the most part and probably unanimously rejected by the Greeks.]

Scholars have been annoyed at the Greeks’ judgement, thus often accusing them of being brainwashed and refusing to accept ancient and modern Greek aren’t the same.

This is largely untrue. First of all, Greeks are already aware that there are also grammatical and syntactical changes between Ancient and Modern. Why would we draw the line in pronunciation in specific? This would only make sense if we also claimed every aspect of Ancient Greek was identical to modern. There might be an obtuse uneducated minority who might believe this but this has to be very rare because Ancient Greek is mandatory in middle and high school. We are well aware of the differences.

Greeks don’t claim the pronunciation has been unchanged. They reject Erasmian in specific. I can’t quite put into words what exactly is wrong to a native’s ears and we loathe it so much. The easy answer: most of it. The Erasmian pronunciation isn’t just a less attractive alternative; it effectively makes the language dysfunctional. I can’t help but laugh when I hear westerners claim Erasmian is loyal to the meters and rhythm of the Greek language because the language loses all rhythm and all meter and all sense. Furthermore, I am frankly perplexed by the western scholars’ confidence that they are great at speaking Ancient Greek. I am afraid all people I have heard fail entirely to use even the accents, the spirits and the long vowels - the supposedly easier stuff. Because let’s not open the can of worms that the diphthongs are. Also, I have yet to hear one that doesn’t explicitly pronounce everything in a very English / German / French / you-name-it way, on top of everything else.

Modern Greek, a language that incidentally sounds like a smooth Romance language with simple but clear vowels, could not have evolved from the frightening cacophony of Erasmian.

A simplistic example I came up with now (it’s 6am), the word family ( οικογένεια) in modern and Erasmian pronunciation respectively:

Ee-ko-yé-nee-ah

and

O-ee-ko-gé-neh-ee-ah

First of all, if we treat the νει as a long syllable that lasts as two syllables (so why don’t we just call them two) and ε and ι are pronounced separately, then automatically we have erased the basic rule of antepenultimate stress. With the Erasmian pronunciation the stress is basically raised to the fourth syllable from the end of the word which is unheard of in Greek. A foreigner learning the Erasmian first thing might believe this does not “officially” violate the stress rule but, let me tell you, it does. The native Greek speaker (or me anyway) will lose a breath there, their speech will slow down and the flow of the phrase will be interrupted. And this with only one word.

I have seen people pronounce καί as keye. How can someone claim they know the correct pronunciation when they can’t even stress correctly a three letter word? Even if one insists on separating the vowels, it should at least be plain as day that they should have said “ka-EE”.

Of course this is most likely wrong too. Do you know of the coordinating conjunction combo «τε … καί» which means “and…and” or “both…and”?

So, in Erasmian this would be “te… (opo-iodeh-EHpote) kaEE…” which neither helps in conjunction nor in the flow. Compare this with the modern “te… (opiodípoté) ke…” which maintains both a rhythm and a flow.

Of course I am not saying this was the pronunciation used. But with the study of how modern Greek sounds naturally evolved by seeking the simplest, most organic way, we can potentially get closer to the truth. This is the purpose of reconstructed Ancient Greek. Maybe the phrase sounded like “te opöodhēpote kä” where ö and ä might have way more naturally evolved into ee and eh than o-i and aEE.

And also d. Modern Greek uses v, w and th in place of b, g and d. The thing is that even Ancient Greek had the doubles μπ and ντ which produced mb and nd sounds so it makes those sounds somewhat superfluous but I don’t have as a strong opinion about this. My guess is that the sounds were probably somewhere in the middle: ie neither d nor th but more like a dh, something transitional.

The news in linguistics are that the Erasmian starts losing ground even in western academics (very slowly). This is probably happening because of the progress in lingual studies and the tourism and Internet that might have been making Modern Greek more accessible to people nowadays (because let’s not forget the centuries long western scorn of anything Greek since the Byzantine era and onwards).

However, progress in studies has been leading to the following conclusions more and more lately:

acknowledgement that Ancient and Modern Greek aren’t separate languages but the organic evolution of one rather preserved language, given the very long time period in between.

Erasmus created a technical pronunciation aiming to help his students memorise the spelling of the words and not make them speak accurately in a pronunciation that was even back then long forgotten

Modern Greek pronunciation is not literally modern. The first variations of it started around 200BC with the spread of Koine Greek. It is estimated to have been fully established to its current form around 1000 - 1100 AD. Therefore it is not that wild to simply take into some account modern Greek pronunciation to speculate about ancient instead of dissing it immediately.

This is not official but something I noticed in lingual forums lately. I see a shift in the way modern Greek is perceived. A few people noted that after listening to modern Greek for some time, they developed an understanding that indeed Erasmian might sound horrendous or - quoting - “barbaric” to native Greeks’ ears. Others, more hesitant ones, acknowledged that modern sounds better or more natural but since they only learned Greek to study the classics and not actively speak, they did not care to learn a more modern-friendly pronunciation. I read this forum thread half a year ago so I don’t remember a link - maybe if you search “Erasmian or modern” and check forums links you will find it.

My opinion is that Erasmian should stop being taught, especially with that insufferable sense of entitlement. For strictly classic studies, Reconstructed is the way to go nowadays. But if somebody entertains the idea of actively speaking, working or passing some time with Greeks or in Greece then maybe they should learn the modern pronunciation either exclusively or additionally, because that’s the one that can ever be useful in everyday real life.

I have a rec for you. Check Ioannis Stratakis and his YT channel Podium Arts. He is a Greek who narrates ancient texts in Reconstructed Greek. It is essentially something in between Modern and Erasmian. He uses the spirits and the accents superbly and excellently maintains the rhythm and musicality of the language. It is recognisably Greek even though it differs in many ways from modern unlike Erasmian which is entirely unrecognisable as Greek or Indoeuropean or human. And as you’ll see, Stratakis receives only positive comments both from foreigners and Greeks alike, which means he must be doing something well! He does sound majestic, as you would expect from a language that has been so repeatedly praised in ancient times. Still, I don’t think he’s perfect - he himself says that but at least he sounds like he speaks a human language and has great understanding of rhythm and pitch.

This is my honest opinion. I hope I didn’t disappoint you. Much love to England 💙❤️🤍

[alatismeni-theitsa]

Convert’s ‘Bloody’ curse Against Robbers Found in Ancient Galilee Grave. The first inscription to be found at Beit She’arim, Israel warns would-be thieves that Jacob the Proselyte will curse them.

Can I, for a sec, judge Ιάκωβος some thousand years later for his typo/grammar error in Greek? 😂 NOT because he wasn't fully literate in Greek (I admire the effort), but because he clearly remembered most of the difficult ΕΙ, Η and Y places but he forgot the extra basic rule of Greek verbs ending -EI! (he wrote ΕΞΟΡΚΙΖΙ instead of ΕΞΟΡΚΙΖΕΙ).

But, I guess, this is a reminder that EI and I had a similar sound in our language even about 1,800 years ago 👀👀👀👀

[racefortheironthrone]

Don't know much about papal history so was wondering "What if" at 1550 papal conclave Englishman and cousin to the Tudors Reginald Pole had won which in real life he nearly did? He seems to be not completely fairly viewed as conservative because he opposed the Act of Supremacy and his own life outside of the Tudors gets overshadowed.

I don't particularly know much about Reginald de la Pole's intra-Catholic religious politics (where did he stand on the Counter-Reformation? Was he an arch-traditionalist or more of an Erasmian reformer?) but I think he's generally viewed as someone with strong Catholic beliefs, given his position on the King's Great Matter let alone the Act of Supremacy.

To be honest, I think the main impact of de la Pole being elected Pope would be the rapid acceleration and intensification of English Anti-Catholicism.

If the Bishop of Rome is not merely attempting to assert a foreign jurisdiction in England, but is a Yorkist Pretender to the throne seeking to bring down England's Josiah, things are going to get very dicey very suddenly because now being an open Catholic or having Catholic sympathies is going to be seen as high treason pure and simple. In this timeline, exclusion from the succession is not going to be enough for Mary, and she will probably go down in history as a willing martyr for the True Religion.

With Queen Jane I and King John II jure uxoris leading the charge after Edward's death, there will be no room for the more Catholic-friendly elements of the Elizabethan religious settlement - England is going to go full Calvinist along with Scotland, the Netherlands, and the Huguenots. In fact, England is going to get stuck into the French Wars of Religion and try to detach as much of coastal France as it can in the name of Reformed Religion.

[eli-kittim]

Erasmian vs. Modern Pronunciation: Philological & Linguistic Considerations

Researched by Eli Kittim

I’m not a linguist and I will not illustrate phonetic diagrams in philological nomenclature (e.g. IPA, etc.) lest I lose the audience's attention with such complicated jargon. I’m simply trying to understand the literature and summarize it in the best possible way. Since there’s not much interest in Ancient Greek pronunciation on the web, I compiled some material from a handful of links that might be of interest. Most of the paper is actually excerpted from various articles that are mentioned at the end of the paper.

——-

The History of the Reconstructed Pronunciation of Greek

“The study of Greek in the West expanded considerably during the Renaissance, in particular after the fall of Constantinople in 1453, when many Byzantine Greek scholars came to Western Europe. Greek texts were then universally pronounced with the medieval pronunciation that still survives intact.

From about 1486, various scholars (notably Antonio of Lebrixa, Girolamo Aleandro, and Aldus Manutius) judged that the pronunciation was inconsistent with the descriptions that were handed down by ancient grammarians, and they suggested alternative pronunciations. This work culminated in Erasmus's dialogue De recta Latini Graecique sermonis pronuntiatione (1528). The system that he proposed is called the Erasmian pronunciation. The pronunciation described by Erasmus is very similar to that currently regarded by most authorities as the authentic pronunciation of Classical Greek (notably the Attic dialect of the 5th century BC).” [1]

——-

The Reuchlinian Model

“Johann Reuchlin (1455 – 1522) was a German Catholic humanist and a scholar of Greek and Hebrew.” [2]

“Reuchlin, it may be noted, pronounced Greek as his native teachers had taught him to do, i.e., in the modern Greek fashion. This pronunciation, which he defends in De recta Latini Graecique sermonis pronuntiatione (1528), came to be known, in contrast to that used by Desiderius Erasmus, as the Reuchlinian.” [3]

“Among speakers of Modern Greek, from the Byzantine Empire to modern Greece, Cyprus, and the Greek diaspora, Greek texts from every period have always been pronounced by using the contemporaneous local Greek pronunciation. That makes it easy to recognize the many words that have remained the same or similar in written form from one period to another. Among Classical scholars, it is often called the Reuchlinian pronunciation, after the Renaissance scholar Johann Reuchlin, who defended its use in the West in the 16th century.” [4]

“The theology faculties and schools related to or belonging to the Eastern Orthodox Church use the Modern Greek pronunciation to follow the tradition of the Byzantine Empire.” [5]

“The two models of pronunciation became soon known, after their principal proponents, as the ‘Reuchlinian’ and the ‘Erasmian’ system, or, after the characteristic vowel pronunciations, as the ‘iotacist’ (or ‘itacist’) and the ‘etacist’ system, respectively.” [6]

“The resulting debate, as it was conducted during the 19th century, finds its expression in, for instance, the works of Jannaris (1897) and Papadimitrakopoulos (1889) on the anti-Erasmian side, and of Friedrich Blass (1870) on the pro-Erasmian side.” [7]

“The resulting majority view today is that a phonological system roughly along Erasmian lines can still be assumed to have been valid for the period of classical Attic literature, but biblical and other post-classical Koine Greek is likely to have been spoken with a pronunciation that already approached that of Modern Greek in many crucial respects.” [8]

——-

Controversies about Reconstructions

“The Greek language underwent pronunciation changes during the Koine Greek period, from about 300 BC to 300 AD. At the beginning of the period, the pronunciation was almost identical to Classical Greek, while at the end it was closer to Modern Greek.” [9]

“The primary point of contention comes from the diversity of the Greek-speaking world: evidence suggests that phonological changes occurred at different times according to location and/or speaker background. It appears that many phonetic changes associated with the Koine period had already occurred in some varieties of Greek during the Classical period.” [10]

“An opposition between learned language and vulgar language has been claimed for the corpus of Attic inscriptions. Some phonetic changes are attested in vulgar inscriptions since the end of the Classical period; still they are not generalized until the start of the 2nd century AD in learned inscriptions. While orthographic conservatism in learned inscriptions may account for this, contemporary transcriptions from Greek into Latin might support the idea that this is not just orthographic conservatism, but that learned speakers of Greek retained a conservative phonological system into the Roman period. On the other hand, Latin transcriptions, too, may be exhibiting orthographic conservatism.” [11]

“Interpretation is more complex when different dating is found for similar phonetic changes in Egyptian papyri and learned Attic inscriptions. A first explanation would be dialectal differences (influence of foreign phonological systems through non-native speakers); changes would then have happened in Egyptian Greek before they were generalized in Attic. A second explanation would be that learned Attic inscriptions reflect a more learned variety of Greek than Egyptian papyri; learned speech would then have resisted changes that had been generalized in vulgar speech.” [12]

By the 4th century, “The pronunciation suggested here, though far from being universal, is essentially that of Modern Greek except for the continued roundedness of /y/.” [13]

Single Vowel Quality

“Apart from η, simple vowels have better preserved their ancient pronunciation than diphthongs. As noted above, at the start of the Koine Greek period, pseudo-diphthong ει before consonant had a value of /iː/, whereas pseudo-diphthong ου had a value of [uː]; these vowel qualities have remained unchanged through Modern Greek. Diphthong ει before vowel had been generally monophthongized to a value of /i(ː)/ and confused with η, thus sharing later developments of η. The quality of vowels α, ε̆, ι and ο have remained unchanged through Modern Greek, as /a/, /e/, /i/ and /o/. The quality distinction between η and ε may have been lost in Attic in the late 4th century BCE, when pre-consonantic pseudo-diphthong ει started to be confused with ι and pre-vocalic diphthong ει with η. C. 150 AD, Attic inscriptions started confusing η and ι, indicating the appearance of a /iː/ or /i/ (depending on when the loss of vowel length distinction took place) pronunciation that is still in usage in standard Modern Greek.” [14]

Consonants

“The consonant ζ, which had probably a value of /zd/ in Classical Attic (though some scholars have argued in favor of a value of /dz/, and the value probably varied according to dialects – see Zeta (letter) for further discussion), acquired the sound /z/ that it still has in Modern Greek, seemingly with a geminate pronunciation /zz/ at least between vowels. Attic inscriptions suggest that this pronunciation was already common by the end of the 4th century BC.” [15]

——-

A Critique of Erasmus’ Knowledge & Methadology

Erasmus “succeeded in learning Greek by an intensive, day-and-night study of three years.” [16] That’s hardly the time needed to become competent in Greek. What is more, he sometimes confused the Greek with the Latin:

“In a way it is legitimate to say that Erasmus ‘synchronized’ or ‘unified’ the Greek and the Latin traditions of the New Testament by producing an updated translation of both simultaneously. Both being part of canonical tradition, he clearly found it necessary to ensure that both were actually present in the same content. In modern terminology, he made the two traditions ‘compatible.’ This is clearly evidenced by the fact that his Greek text is not just the basis for his Latin translation, but also the other way round: there are numerous instances where he edits the Greek text to reflect his Latin version. For instance, since the last six verses of Revelation were missing from his Greek manuscript, Erasmus translated the Vulgate's text back into Greek. Erasmus also translated the Latin text into Greek wherever he found that the Greek text and the accompanying commentaries were mixed up, or where he simply preferred the Vulgate's reading to the Greek text.” [17]

His 1516 publication became the first published New Testament in Greek:

“Erasmus used several Greek manuscript sources because he did not have access to a single complete manuscript. Most of the manuscripts were, however, late Greek manuscripts of the Byzantine textual family and Erasmus used the oldest manuscript the least because ‘he was afraid of its supposedly erratic text.’ He also ignored much older and better manuscripts that were at his disposal.” [18]

So although the modern critical edition of the New Testament rejected Erasmus’ versions, those same scholars that sat on these editorial committees nevertheless adopted his pronunciation (odd)!

On the other end of the spectrum, Johann Reuchlin was a German Catholic who had no axe to grind. He neither defended the Eastern Orthodox Church nor the Greek heritage per se. So he had no conflict of interests. He didn’t have a dog in this fight, so to speak. His interest was purely intellectual and academic.

——-

German Reconstructions

“The situation in German education may be representative of that in many other European countries. The teaching of Greek is based on a roughly Erasmian model, but in practice, it is heavily skewed towards the phonological system of German or the other host language.

Thus, German-speakers do not use a fricative [θ] for θ but give it the same pronunciation as τ, [t], but φ and χ are realised as the fricatives [f] and [x] ~ [ç]. ζ is usually pronounced as an affricate, but a voiceless one, like German z [ts]. However, σ is often voiced, according like s in German before a vowel, [z]. ευ and ηυ are not distinguished from οι but are both pronounced [ɔʏ], following the German eu, äu. Similarly, ει and αι are often not distinguished, both pronounced [aɪ], like the similar German ei, ai, and ει is sometimes pronounced [ɛɪ].” [19]

“While the deviations are often acknowledged as compromises in teaching, awareness of other German-based idiosyncrasies is less widespread. German-speakers typically try to reproduce vowel-length distinctions in stressed syllables, but they often fail to do so in non-stressed syllables, and they are also prone to use a reduction of e-sounds to [ə].” [20]

French Reconstructions

“Pronunciation of Ancient Greek in French secondary schools is based on Erasmian pronunciation, but it is modified to match the phonetics and even, in the case of αυ and ευ, the orthography of French.” [21]

“Vowel length distinction, geminate consonants and pitch accent are discarded completely, which matches the current phonology of Standard French. The reference Greek-French dictionary, Dictionnaire Grec-Français by A. Bailly et al., does not even bother to indicate vowel length in long syllables.” [22]

“The pseudo-diphthong ει is erroneously pronounced [ɛj] or [ej], regardless of whether the ει derives from a genuine diphthong or a ε̄. The pseudo-diphthong ου has a value of [u], which is historically attested in Ancient Greek.” [23]

“Short-element ι diphthongs αι, οι and υι are pronounced … as [aj], [ɔj], [yj], [and] … some websites recommend the less accurate pronunciation [ɥi] for υι. Short-element υ diphthongs αυ and ευ are pronounced like similar-looking French pseudo-diphthongs au and eu: [o]~[ɔ] and [ø]~[œ], respectively.” [24]

“Also, θ and χ are pronounced [t] and [k]. … Also, γ, before a velar consonant, is generally pronounced [n]. The digraph γμ is pronounced [ɡm], and ζ is pronounced [dz], but both pronunciations are questionable in the light of modern scholarly research.” [25]

Italian Reconstructions

“Italian speakers find it hard to reproduce the pitch-based Ancient Greek accent accurately so the circumflex and acute accents are not distinguished. … β is a voiced bilabial plosive [b], as in Italian bambino or English baby; γ is a voiced velar plosive [ɡ], as in Italian gatto or English got. When γ is before κ γ χ ξ, it is nasalized as [ŋ] … ζ is a voiced alveolar affricate [dz], as in Italian zolla … θ is taught as a voiceless dental fricative, as in English thing [θ], but since Italian does not have that sound, it is often pronounced as a voiceless alveolar affricate [ts], as in Italian zio, or even as τ, a voiceless dental plosive [t]) … χ is taught as a voiceless velar fricative [x], as in German ach, but since Italian does not have that sound, it is often pronounced as κ (voiceless velar plosive [k]).” [26]

Spanish Reconstructions

Due to Castilian Spanish, “phonological features of the language sneak in the Erasmian pronunciation. The following are the most distinctive (and frequent) features of Spanish pronunciation of Ancient Greek: following Spanish phonotactics, the double consonants ζ, ξ, ψ are difficult to differentiate in pronunciation by many students of Ancient Greek, although ξ is usually effectively rendered as [ks]; … both vocalic quantity and vowel openness are ignored altogether: thus, no effort is made to distinguish vocalic pairs such as ε : η and ο : ω; the vowel υ, although taught as [y] (absent in the Spanish phonological system), is mostly pronounced as [i].” [27]

——-

What Do the Experts Say?

Nick Nicolas, PhD in Modern Greek dialectology & linguist at Thesaurus Linguae Graecae, outlines the 3 current pronunciation models of Ancient Greek:

1. Erasmus' reconstruction of Ancient Greek phonology, as modified in practice for teaching Greek in Western schools.

2. The scholarly reconstruction of Ancient Greek phonology.

3. Modern Greek pronunciation applied to Ancient Greek (“Reuchlinian" pronunciation). [28]

Nicolas’ Critique of Erasmian:

It's not quite fully there with the scholarly

reconstruction of Greek; so some of the

phonology and morphology of Ancient

Greek still doesn't make sense.

Particularly with diphthongs, and

aspiration, if your local Erasmian doesn't

do them accurately. [29]

“Extreme variability from country to country, because of the concessions each country's teaching system makes to the local language.

Speak in Erasmian to a Greek, and they'll look at you like a space alien. … But they will genuinely have no idea what you are saying, or what language you are saying it in. … It's quite far from Koine. Koine was still in flux, and some critical changes were underway when the bit of Koine most people care about (New Testament) was spoken. But overall, Koine was much closer to Modern Greek than Homeric.” [30]

——-

Here’s what Daniel Streett, Ph.D & Associate Professor of Biblical Studies at Houston Baptist University, says about the pronunciations debate that occurred approximately 10 years ago at the annual Society of Biblical Literature meeting in San Francisco. It was sponsored by the Biblical Greek Language and Linguistics Section & the Applied Linguistics for Biblical Languages Group, which addressed the topic of Greek phonology and pronunciation.

Dr. Daniel Streett says:

“There is a widespread consensus among historical linguists as to how Greek was pronounced at its various stages. If you want a good summary of the consensus, check out A.-F. Christidis’ History of Ancient Greek, which has several articles on the various phonological shifts. Especially relevant is E.B. Petrounias’ contribution on ‘Development in Pronunciation During the Hellenistic Period’ (pp. 599-609).” [31]

Then he critiques the Erasmian Pronunciation that was presented by Daniel Wallace of Dallas Seminary. Dr. Streett writes:

“He was asked to argue for the Erasmian pronunciation, although, as he explained at the outset, he has no firm conviction that Erasmian pronunciation best reflects the way Greek was pronounced in the Hellenistic world.

I found Wallace’s presentation very easy to follow and enjoyable to listen to, but frustrating at the same time. I think he seriously misrepresented the state of our knowledge on Greek phonology in the Hellenistic and Roman imperial eras. He did not deal with any hard evidence from manuscripts or inscriptions (as subsequent presenters Buth and Theophilos did). He merely pointed out a few of the difficulties with assessing such evidence and then (IMO) cavalierly dismissed them.” [32]

Dr. Streett Comments on the Reconstructed Koine:


“Randall Buth of the Biblical Language Center presented third and advocated his reconstruction of 1st century Koine Greek. If you want a summary of his system, take a look at his page on it here: https://www.biblicallanguagecenter.com/koine-greek-pronunciation/

Buth’s presentation contained what Wallace’s lacked: a lot of evidence which demonstrated that however they were pronouncing Greek in the first century, it sure wasn’t Erasmian! Furthermore, he showed that the regional differences objection did not really hold, as the same sounds were ‘confused’ in texts from across the ancient world. So, while the pronunciation might have differed slightly from region to region, the phonemic structure remained stable.

Neo-hellenic or Modern Pronunciation

Michael Theophilos, who teaches at Australian Catholic University, presented last and advocated the modern pronunciation. Theophilos speaks modern Greek but also believes that most (or all?) of the modern phonology was in place by the first century. He made some very helpful methodological points. For example, he argues that we should be looking for phonological clues mainly in the non-literary papyri, which are more likely to contain phonetic spellings. He also offered several examples of iotacism in early papyri to show that there is at least some evidence that οι, η, and υ had iotacized by the 2nd century CE.

By the time you heard Simkin, Buth, and Theophilos, Wallace’s agnosticism seemed thorougly untenable. Theophilos didn’t have a whole lot to say about the practical reasons for using the modern pronunciation. I wish he would have, since it’s helpful for Erasmians to realize there’s an entire country of people who speak Greek and can’t bear to listen to the awful linguistic barbarity known as Erasmian. When Wallace was making the argument that Erasmians are by far in the pedagogical majority, he conveniently left out the millions of Greek students on this little peninsula in the Aegean.” [33]

——-

Conclusion

In the words of Daniel B. Wallace:

“Erasmian pronunciation is often considered cumbersome, unnatural, stilted, and ugly. The implication sometimes is that it must not have been the way Greek ever sounded; it is too harsh on the ears for that.” Not to mention fake and fabricated!

As regards Koine Greek, no one from our generation was there to hear the words being spoken. So no one really knows exactly how it sounded. But just as the closest pronunciation to Middle English is Modern English, so the rightful heir and descendant of Koine Greek pronunciation is obviously Modern Greek. It should be closer to the Koine Greek pronunciation than an invented phonetic system from the Renaissance. Just as Albert Schweitzer realized that most authors had interpreted Jesus in their own image, so Erasmians have interpreted Greek pronunciation in their own image as well. That’s why the Erasmian speakers don’t sound Greek but have the accents of their native countries.

What is more, many of their theories are erroneously based on Egyptian Greek papyri. Suppose that 2,000 years from now linguists try to reconstruct American pronunciation via English literature that was found in Australia. The pronunciations are vastly different. By comparison, what was spoken in Egypt or Palestine was certainly not spoken in Athens.

Besides, there’s much more literature on Erasmian pronunciation and a relative neglect or disinterest to write anything about the Reuchlinian or Modern Greek pronunciation. That’s a western bias that has been in place for centuries.

Let’s not forget that we learned so much about Koine Greek from the discoveries of the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries, such as the Oxyrhynchus Papyri, the Dead Sea Scrolls, and the like. The addition of approximately 5,800 New Testament mss. that we currently have just in Greek, compared to a handful that Erasmus had at his disposal, shows how much more equipped we are in understanding the intricacies and complexities of Koine Greek than he was in the early 1500s.

Philemon Zachariou——Ph.D Bible scholar, linguist, & native Greek speaker——uses various lines of evidence, including Plato’s writings, to show that ι = ει = η = [i] (kratylos 418c) is similar to Neohellenic Greek. He summarizes the evidence as follows:

“iotacism is not a ‘modern’ development but is traceable all the way to Plato’s day.” He further claims that “the phonemic sounds of mainstream Modern Greek are not ‘modern’ or new but historical; and the Modern Greek way of reading and pronouncing consonants, vowels, and vowel digraphs was established by, or initiated within, the Classical Greek period (500-300 BC).” [34]

He concludes that no pronunciation comes closer to Koine than Modern Greek.

Similarly, David S. Hasselbrook, who studies New Testament Lexicography, says that a number of new words that occur in the New Testament continue to have the same meanings in modern Greek. These words are closer to modern Greek than Classical Greek. Constantine R. Campbell, Associate Professor of New Testament at Trinity Evangelical Divinity School, also says that Modern Greek helps to resolve text-critical issues related to pronunciation, whereas the Erasmian may lead down the wrong path! [35]

——-

Notes

1 Pronunciation of Ancient Greek in teaching (Wiki).

2 Johann Reuchlin (Wikipedia).

3 Ibid.

4 Pronunciation of Ancient Greek in teaching.

5 Ibid.

6 Ancient Greek phonology (Wikipedia).

7 Ibid.

8 Ibid.

9 Koine Greek phonology (Wikipedia).

10 Ibid.

11 Ibid.

12 Ibid.

13 Ibid.

14 Ibid.

15 Ibid.

16 Erasmus (Wikipedia).

17 Ibid.

18 Ibid.

19 Pronunciation of Ancient Greek in teaching.

20 Ibid.

21 Ibid.

22 Ibid.

23 Ibid.

24 Ibid.

25 Ibid.

26 Ibid.

27 Ibid.

28 What are the pros and cons of the Erasmian

pronunciation? (Quora).

29 Ibid.

30 Ibid.

31 The Great Greek Pronunciation Debate (SBL)

32 Ibid.

33 Ibid.

34 Philemon Zachariou, PhD - YouTube Video

35 Ibid.

A Comparison Between Erasmian & Modern Pronunciation

Matthew 7 - Erasmian Pronunciation -https://youtu.be/vKrqwhBwur8

Matthew 7 - Modern Greek Pronunciation -https://youtu.be/ktmnpVzxPw4

——-

Selected Bibliography

Allen, William Sidney (1987). Vox Graeca. A Guide to the Pronunciation of Classical Greek (3rd ed.). Cambridge, UK: Cambridge University Press. pp. ix–x. ISBN 978-0-521-33555-3. Retrieved 22 June 2019.

Jannaris, A. (1897). An Historical Greek Grammar Chiefly of the Attic Dialect As Written and Spoken From Classical Antiquity Down to the Present Time. London: MacMillan.

Papadimitrakopoulos, Th. (1889). Βάσανος τῶν περὶ τῆς ἑλληνικῆς προφορᾶς Ἐρασμικῶν ἀποδείξεων [Critique of the Erasmian evidence regarding Greek pronunciation]. Athens.

https://en-academic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/1466927

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koine_Greek_phonology

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pronunciation_of_Ancient_Greek_in_teaching

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iotacism

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Reuchlin

https://quora.opoudjis.net/2016/01/24/2016-01-24-what-are-the-pros-and-cons-of-the-erasmian-pronunciation/

https://danielstreett.com/2011/12/01/the-great-greek-pronunciation-debate-sbl-2011-report-pt-3/amp/

https://youtu.be/wYtrVlpnpg4

[gemsofgreece]

I saw the post about Erasmian accent.... please allow me to add on to this rant. Let's take the simplest word and the simplest word and the simplest grammatical rule.

Εἶναι. Pronounced ee-neh. Two syllables.

The tone it has is a perispomeni ( ῀ ) and it is there for one reason:

the "ει" in the first syllable is a long term vowel (sorry i do not know if this is the correct term in english)

the "αι" in the second syllable is a short term vowel.

long term before short term = gets a perispomeni.

its legit the most basic rule you learn for ancient greek.

and if anyone says "its pronounced as two letter but its one syllable" well lemme tell you what!! it ruins the whole point!!!!

the long and short term letters and grammatical rules about their punctuation were literally created for the flow of the words and for everything to sound in-place. if you add another letter it destroys the entire rulebook, whether it is theoretically one syllable or not.

and if we go on, the erasmian accent will just keep ruining more and more rules. i am so disappointed that my greek language teacher told me about the erasmian accent. she is a filologist and might know a bit more, but if you think about it it just doesnt make sense! it ruins the flow and beauty of pronouncing a word the right way.

Very good example. I think it's funny because even though αι and οι are generally long vowels (which are conventionally and questionably pronounced as two syllables), in the end of the word they become short vowels (one syllable pronounced as such). So... since the two letters are pronounced separately how can this be explained grammatically? Each letter has the length of half a syllable or something XD honestly how such things have escaped people so much...

Inspired by your example, I found another similar one: the word άνθρωποι (humans). The stress is on the antepenultimate which means that the last syllable must mandatorily become short as the antepenultimate syllable can never be stressed if the last one is long. With the Erasmian, not only the syllable doesn't become short but it also lasts the length of two syllables, raising the stress even higher in the word which is impossible, violating three basic rules simultaneously (the never antepenultimate when the last syllable is long, the change of the diphthongs to short when they are in the end and the impossibility of having a stress higher in the word than on the antepenultimate).

I think some Greeks in the past did spread the Erasmian (and a few still do), or at least some of its elements that are more valid, due to the overwhelming perception of western academics as the ultimate authority on everything. I imagine it would be hard for a linguist to phrase a different theory without getting marginalised. It's weird how fiercely defensive western scholars and students have been about Erasmian - most still go literally feral if you express doubts on its validity. Let's remember Erasmus was a Dutch who lived in 15th-16th centuries and never in his life met a Greek, medieval or modern or ancient. He never had exposure to spoken Greek, so I don't get why people swear by him without a second thought. Of course, for his time, his work has been colossal and great but achievements do age, and sometimes not very well.

[gemsofgreece]

Continuing the rant about Erasmian, I have to say this:

I absolutely adore Tom Hiddleston but whoever taught this incredible man the Erasmian pronunciation should lose his license

You are really brave implying Hiddleston might be doing something not perfectly on Tumblr. Without anon on, even! Salute 🫡

[alatismeni-theitsa]

Hello! Sorry to bother you, but are there any phonetic differences between the ancient greek alphabeth and the modern greek one? I'm studying ancient greek in high school and i'd like to get closer to modern greek as well

Hi! Good luck with your studies, first of all. Knowing the ancient form of the language will surely help you understand the modern version as the differences are not that many. It's not a breeze but you'll recognize many things. At least, that's what is reported from people who know one version and then learn the other (from ancient to modern and vice versa).

Please see my tags #ancient greek language and #anti erasmian (link) . I think they will be a good start! Not everything is noted there but other Greeks and I gathered whatever we could

[alatismeni-theitsa]

Finally a xenos who did a great video on the pronunciation of ancient Greek - by also taking account the sound changes over the centuries. Many Greeks and xenoi alike are fascinated by the Greek language and I feel thankful to anyone around the globe who takes time to research and teach our language!

It’s worth pointing out that Greeks can understand very well Koine Greek* from the Hellenistic era. So, the changes in the language are less than those of the English language, for example. That’s why when the English speakers say “look how much English has changed” it’s not reflective of our situation.

* 336 BC – 300 AD (Byzantine official use until 1453); developed into Medieval Greek, survives as the liturgical language of the Greek Orthodox and the Greek Catholic churches.

[alatismeni-theitsa]

Foreigners who think the Erasmian pronunciation is the proper way to pronounce ancient Greek, I want you to know that when you speak the verb "πει" sounds like "dicks" in Greek :) Also, why the fuck is too difficult for them to learn the ει, οι, αι, etc and learn how to properly say γ and δ? Greek kids see those for the first time in first grade, not to mention that adults from all countries learn diphthongs and more complex sounds when they are taught a foreign language without whining

++ Adding that foreigners away from Greece who learn ancient Greek are usually close to 18 and often older than that (already in uni). Guys, can you learn the language like adults, please? Or do you want a classicist academia with a colonizing mindset to baby you? And DON'T come to me with the old as shit argument "but we don't know how those words were pronouuunceeeed back theeen"

____________________________ END OF ASK______________

[alatismeni-theitsa]

This Brazilian who makes fun of his own inability to read Greek, reads like the foreign students following the Erasmian pronunciation 😂 (and no I don't think he's aware of that)

Erasmus, dear, if a random Brazilian learning Greek just now can do it almost as well as you, then you didn't exactly do it "well" 💅