#asos jon snow viii

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

Jon Snow: Bravery of an injured boy

When Jon Snow decides to abandon the Free Folk and return to the Night's Watch he's s injured by an arrow on his leg. His injury is pretty serious to the point that even a couple of days later right before the battle of Castle Black he needs help in order to dress himself and his leg hurts a lotl:

His leg still hurt like blazes when he put his weight on it. He'd needed Clydas to help him don his fresh-washed blacks and lace up his boots this morning, and by the time they were done he'd wanted to drown himself in the milk of the poppy

That doesn't stop Jon from joining the fight, though. Despite the fact that his black brothers try to stop him from doing so, he's stubborn enough to decide that he will help fighting the Free Folk.

"I can fight," he insisted when they tried to stop him.

During the preparations and the actual fight Martin describes Jon using a crutch to move around. We also get a couple of mentions of Jon's painful injury:

He could feel the throb of pain where her arrow had gone through the meat and muscle of his thigh

He went downstairs himself to bar the door, trying to work some of the stiffness of his leg.

So what does injured Jon Snow does during the attack on Castle Black? He fights as an archer among his black brothers. He also acts as a mentor to the newer recruit Satin who is fighting next to him by giving him advice on how to fight and encouraging him. Both men attack the Thenns who stormed the castle's gate ( with injured Jon using Longclaw) and later pour boiling oil to enemies who attempt to reach them. It's pretty impressive for a man who can't even move without help:

Jon asked Satin to help him down to the yard. His wounded leg hurt so badly he could hardly walk , even with the crutch.

Even after the first battle of the Night's Watch vs Wildings, Jon's leg continues to hurt him but that once again doesn't stop him from preparing for the next battle:

He shoved aside the furs and sat. The pain in his leg seemed duller, nothing he couldn't stand.[...]The horn blew again, two long blasts, so he slung Longclaw over one shoulder, found his crutch and hobbled down the steps.

During the battle beneath the Wall he even commands the defense once Donal Noye leaves to hold the gate from within the tunnel( and later on when he dies). Our injured boy does a fine job commanding his fellow brothers. He gives them courage and inspires then to fight harder with his speech to them.

Once again, Martin shows how tired and wounded Jon is in order to highlight that despite all these difficulties Jon remains a fierce defender of the Wall until the very end.

The wall is mine, Jon reminded himself whenever he felt his strength flagging. He had taken up a longbow himself, and his fingers felt crabbed and stiff, half-frozen. His fever was back as well, and his leg would tremble uncontrollably, sending a white- hot knife of pain right through him. One more arrow, and I'll rest, he told himself, half a hundred times. Just one more.

[thekeytothenorth]

sansa stark & jon snow / the mother’s hymn

sansa v ACOK

jon viii ASOS

[babybells123]

Do you ever think of how;

“Robb and Sansa and Bran and even little Rickon all took after the Tullys, with easy smiles and fire in their hair.” (Arya, AGOT I)

“The wildlings seemed to think Ygritte a great beauty because of her hair; red hair was rare among the free folk, and those who had it were said to be kissed by fire, which was supposed to be lucky.” (Jon II, ASOS)

“I might get her with child."

"Aye, I'd hope so. A strong son or a lively laughing girl kissed by fire, and where's the harm in that?" (Jon II, ASOS)

(And Sansa II follows where she thinks of having children resembling/named after lost family members)

‘Sometimes she sang in a low husky voice that stirred him. And sometimes by the cookfire when she sat hugging her knees with the flames waking echoes in her red hair, and looked at him, just smiling . . . well, that stirred some things as well.’ (Jon II , ASOS)

‘Sansa could sew and dance and sing. She wrote poetry. She knew how to dress. She played the high harp and the bells.’ (Arya I AGOT)

“She had auburn hair, lighter than mine, and so thick and soft . . . the red in it would catch the light of the torches and shine like copper.” (Catelyn, ACOK VII)

“Her hair was a rich autumn auburn, her eyes a deep Tully blue. Grief had given her a haunted, vulnerable look; if anything, it had only made her more beautiful.” (Tyrion, VIII ASOS).

This is autumn auburn hair: (*note* this photo also appears when you search dark honey hair)

I cant decide whether this is auburn or a dark blonde caramel (and I think it can be seen as both)

‘They look as though they belong together. Val was clad all in white; white woolen breeches tucked into high boots of bleached white leather, white bearskin cloak pinned at the shoulder with a carved weirwood face, white tunic with bone fastenings. Her breath was white as well … but her eyes were blue, her long braid the color of dark honey, her cheeks flushed red from the cold. It had been a long while since Jon Snow had seen a sight so lovely.’ (Jon, ADWD XI)

“She donned silken smallclothes and a linen shift, and over that a warm dress of blue lambswool. Two pairs of hose for her legs, boots that laced up to her knees, heavy leather gloves, and finally a hooded cloak of soft white fox fur.”

….

“When she opened the door to the garden, it was so lovely that she held her breath, unwilling to disturb such perfect beauty. The snow drifted down and down, all in ghostly silence, and lay thick and unbroken on the ground.”

…

“I wish you could see yourself, my lady. You are so beautiful. You're crusted over with snow like some little bear cub, but your face is flushed and you can scarcely breathe.” (Sansa VII ASOS)

“It was the old days she hungered for. Prayed for. But who could she pray to? The garden had been meant for a godswood once, she knew, but the soil was too thin and stony for a weirwood to take root. A godswood without gods, as empty as me. (Sansa VII ASOS)

A sight so lovely = Val with Ghost, cheeks flushed red, clad in all white like snow, sometimes she’s described as having grey eyes but she has blue eyes in this excerpt, bearskin cloak, long braid the colour of dark honey, reference to a weirwood = old gods.

So lovely she held her breath = Sansa clad in a white fox fur cloak (which GRRM has as a figurine), all white surroundings (snow), building a snow castle, face flushed, referred to as a little bear cub, covered in snow, the snow is very romantically coded in this scene as well + there is talk of weirwood trees = Ghost, not to mention ‘ghostly silence’ and Jon reuniting with Ghost in the previous chapter where he also talks of the godswood and weirwood trees.

The connections that Jon makes here are associated with warmth, home, belonging, and Winterfell.

Sansa’s quotes are also rich with themes of home, belonging, and Winterfell where she draws strength from the snow and rebuilds from the ‘ashes.’ Just as Jon in the previous chapter talks of doing.

And “drifting snowflakes brushed her face as light as lover’s kisses…..it was the taste of Winterfell, the taste of innocence, the taste of dreams.” (A dream of spring)

All of these above associations are overtly positive.

Now compare that to….

“The light of the half-moon turned Val’s honey-blond hair a pale silver and left her cheeks as white as snow. She took a deep breath. “The air tastes sweet.”

“My tongue is too numb to tell. All I can taste is the cold.” (Jon VIII ADWD)

I’m not going to say anymore on that.

Dark honey hair:

Light auburn hair:

Copper hair:

You could also interpret the dark honey as actual dark honey i.e

<333

[thelustybraavosimaid]

I know I talk about it a lot, but it's the heart and home stuff that really gives me pause in regards to how much Jon and Arya mean to one another. It's not just the comparisons between Ygritte and Arya, or Arya constantly being on Jon's mind and vice versa, or even the fact that George intended for the two of them to dream of each other, but that she's called a dark heart and he calls his own heart black.

"You are cruel to come to my hill, cruel. I gorged on grief at Summerhall, I need none of yours. Begone from here, dark heart. Begone!" (Arya VIII, ASoS)

--

There is no way I can help her. I put all kin aside when I said my words. If one of my men told me his sister was in peril, I would tell him that was no concern of his. Once a man had said the words his blood was black. Black as a bastard's heart.

...

"The heart is all that matters. Do not despair, Lord Snow. Despair is a weapon of the enemy, whose name may not be spoken. Your sister is not lost to you."

"I have no sister." The words were knives. What do you know of my heart, priestess? What do you know of my sister?

Melisandre seemed amused. "What is her name, this little sister that you do not have?"

"Arya." His voice was hoarse. "My half-sister, truly…" (Jon VI, ADwD)

But the dark heart has another significance as well—it's a connector to Rhaegar. Robert said Rhaegar had a black heart and yet the one who made him happy enough to label the tower the tower of joy was Lyanna, who is very much so Arya's precursor.

It's the connections. They are fascinating.

[dyannawynnedayne]

Which character parallel do you like the best?

Quentyn and Jon: are by wodania

Catelyn: art by cosmiart (1, 2)

Propaganda is encouraged!

Quentyn and Jon

Both are hungry to make their fathers proud

When Jon had been Bran's age, he had dreamed of doing great deeds, as boys always did. The details of his feats changed with every dreaming, but quite often he imagined saving his father's life. Afterward Lord Eddard would declare that Jon had proved himself a true Stark, and place Ice in his hand. Even then he had known it was only a child's folly; no bastard could ever hope to wield a father's sword.

AGOT, Jon VIII

His father's disappointment would be more than Quentyn could bear, and the scorn of the Sand Snakes would be withering. Doran Martell had put the fate of Dorne into his hands, he could not fail him, not whilst life remained.

ADWD, The Merchant's Man

Catelyn and Olenna

Oft ignored advisors to their sons

"And now my oaf son is doing the same, only he's riding a lion instead of a palfrey. It is easy to mount a lion and not so easy to get off, I warned him, but he only chuckles. Should you ever have a son, Sansa, beat him frequently so he learns to mind you. I only had the one boy and I hardly beat him at all, so now he pays more heed to Butterbumps than he does to me. A lion is not a lap cat, I told him, and he gives me a 'tut-tut-Mother.' There is entirely too much tut-tutting in this realm, if you ask me. All these kings would do a deal better if they would put down their swords and listen to their mothers."

ASOS, Sansa I

"Who better to treat with Balon Greyjoy than his son?" "Jason Mallister," offered Catelyn. "Tytos Blackwood. Stevron Frey. Anyone . . . but not Theon." Her son squatted beside Grey Wind, ruffling the wolf's fur and incidentally avoiding her eyes. "Theon's fought bravely for us. I told you how he saved Bran from those wildlings in the wolfswood. If the Lannisters won't make peace, I'll have need of Lord Greyjoy's longships." [...] "Robb—" "I'm sending Theon. Good day, Mother. Grey Wind, come." Robb walked off briskly, the direwolf padding beside him. Catelyn could only watch him go. Her son and now her king. How queer that felt. Command, she had told him back in Moat Cailin. And so he did.

ACOK, Catelyn I

[agentrouka-blog]

I've been thinking a lot about the savage giant slain in a castle of snow.

I think, at this point, there are 4 big possibilities

1) it's Robin's doll (I really don't believe that)

2) it's Petyr, whom Sansa throws a snowball at in her snowcastle

3) it's Petyr being executed in Winterfell

4) Petyr dies in the Vale and the giant metaphorically "slain" in Winterfell is Tyrion

I keep going back and forth. I was convinced it would be number 3 (even though I want him to die ASAP) but now I reread Arya's ASOS chapter where she hears the "prophecy" and all the other prophecies she heats before that don't seem don't happen much later? Why would the last one be the one that wont happen until somewhere in TWOW? And it's not like 1 and 2 are super literal interpretations, which we know none of the prophecies really are.

What do you reckon is the most likely one to be realised? I also realise I'm falling into the prophecy trap George set (how targaryen of me).

My money is on 3).

Importantly, we never see anyone try and interpret these prophecies by the Ghost of High Heart, or deliberate act in response to them. They exist for the reader and they provide a template for how the vague details provided in them often reflect distortions or metaphors. They tell us about things that will happen. They are not instructions, the way Melisandre or Quaithe or even Mother Mole use them.

I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow." (ASOS, Arya VIII)

There's clearly a time skip implied between the feast and the snow castle, but the idea that she has a prophecy about the snow castle scene itself is laughable. So. The only credible options are 3 and 4.

But Petyr randomly being killed in the Vale by Sansa doesn't comply with the prophecy NOR the foreshsdowing provided in the snow castle scene. The only other castle described as "made of snow" is the Eyrie, which is inaccessible for the foreseeable future. It's closed for winter, empty.

So after a scene where Sansa rebuilds Winterfell and feels stronger within its walls, attacking Littlefinger for his lies with a snowball, even beheading a "giant" and putting its head on the walls of that castle, we are meant to infer that the man who is directly responsible for her father's downfall and death (among many other crimes) will be killed by Sansa (how??) in some random castle in the Vale, instead of executed according to the law for crimes against the North in Winterfell when she has gained agency and power in her own home? Unlikely.

Tyrion also has "giant" imagery and is an enemy of House Stark BUT his relationship to the Starks is more complex and involves Jon and Bran. His current trajectory is far less focused on the Starks, and if he does aid in bringing Dany to Westeros, his culpability will center on the South too. An execution in Winterfell by the Starks seems improbable in that context. I suspect much like Dany, his ultimate end will reflect his own inner torment. We've seen him on trial already, unjustly so, twice. A third trial might work, but... holding himself accountable to his own failings and cruelties seems like a more important character development.

[eruherdiriel]

Something I've been thinking a lot about lately is how Jon knows what it's like to be burned. With his hand, he doesn't feel it in the moment but that's probably adrenaline more than anything else.

"You do not look well. How is your hand?" "Healing." Jon flexed his bandaged fingers to show him. He had burned himself more badly than he knew throwing the flaming drapes, and his right hand was swathed in silk halfway to the elbow. At the time he'd felt nothing; the agony had come after. His cracked red skin oozed fluid, and fearsome blood blisters rose between his fingers, big as roaches. "The maester says I'll have scars, but otherwise the hand should be as good as it was before." "A scarred hand is nothing. On the Wall, you'll be wearing gloves often as not." It was not the thought of scars that troubled Jon; it was the rest of it. Maester Aemon had given him milk of the poppy, yet even so, the pain had been hideous. At first it had felt as if his hand were still aflame, burning day and night. Only plunging it into basins of snow and shaved ice gave any relief at all. Jon thanked the gods that no one but Ghost saw him writhing on his bed, whimpering from the pain.

-AGOT, Jon VIII

And then there's the scene of his wound getting cauterized. Which, yeah, he's otherwise injured and just escaped the wildlings, experiencing a lot of physical pain and internal turmoil, etc., etc. Still:

Maester Aemon sniffed Jon's wound again. Then he put the bloody cloth back in the basin and said, "Donal, the hot knife, if you please. I shall need you to hold him still." I will not scream, Jon told himself when he saw the blade glowing red hot. But he broke that vow as well. Donal Noye held him down, while Clydas helped guide the maester's hand. Jon did not move, except to pound his fist against the table, again and again and again. The pain was so huge he felt small and weak and helpless inside it, a child whimpering in the dark. Ygritte, he thought, when the stench of burning flesh was in his nose and his own shriek echoing in her ears. Ygritte, I had to. For half a heartbeat the agony started to ebb. But then the iron touched him once again, and he fainted.

-ASOS, Jon VI

This doesn't even touch on how he feels about the R'hollor crew and stories of people intentionally being burned. Whether he's there when King's Landing burns or hears about it, he will be able to empathize with the people of the city. There will be survivors, some with burns like on his hand and some with way worse. There won't be enough milk of the poppy for everyone. There will be men, women, children, soldiers, civilians, and old people burned and screaming in pain. Before KL burns, Jon will have heard about the other places DT has been as well. They're not gonna be pals.

But there will be conflict in his interactions with DT. Jon fiddles with his hands when he's conflicted or distressed:

Jon's breath misted the air. If I lie to him, he'll know. He looked Mance Rayder in the eyes, opened and closed his burned hand. "I wear the cloak you gave me, Your Grace."

-ASOS, Jon II

Lots of examples from AGOT, when his hand is still freshly burned and in more pain:

"Grief and noise," Mormont grumbled. "That's all they're good for, ravens. Why I put up with that pestilential bird … if there was news of Lord Eddard, don't you think I would have sent for you? Bastard or no, you're still his blood. The message concerned Ser Barristan Selmy. It seems he's been removed from the Kingsguard. They gave his place to that black dog Clegane, and now Selmy's wanted for treason. The fools sent some watchmen to seize him, but he slew two of them and escaped." Mormont snorted, leaving no doubt of his view of men who'd send gold cloaks against a knight as renowed as Barristan the Bold. "We have white shadows in the woods and unquiet dead stalking our halls, and a boy sits the Iron Throne," he said in disgust. The raven laughed shrilly. "Boy, boy, boy, boy." Ser Barristan had been the Old Bear's best hope, Jon remembered; if he had fallen, what chance was there that Mormont's letter would be heeded? He curled his hand into a fist. Pain shot through his burned fingers. "What of my sisters?"

-AGOT, Jon VIII

When Jon had been Bran's age, he had dreamed of doing great deeds, as boys always did. The details of his feats changed with every dreaming, but quite often he imagined saving his father's life. Afterward Lord Eddard would declare that Jon had proved himself a true Stark, and place Ice in his hand. Even then he had known it was only a child's folly; no bastard could ever hope to wield a father's sword. Even the memory shamed him. What kind of man stole his own brother's birthright? I have no right to this, he thought, no more than to Ice. He twitched his burned fingers, feeling a throb of pain deep under the skin. "My lord, you honor me, but—"

-AGOT, Jon VIII

Jon raised the hood of his heavy cloak and gave the horse her head. Castle Black was silent and still as he rode out, with Ghost racing at his side. Men watched from the Wall behind him, he knew, but their eyes were turned north, not south. No one would see him go, no one but Sam Tarly, struggling back to his feet in the dust of the old stables. He hoped Sam hadn't hurt himself, falling like that. He was so heavy and so ungainly, it would be just like him to break a wrist or twist his ankle getting out of the way. "I warned him," Jon said aloud. "It was nothing to do with him, anyway." He flexed his burned hand as he rode, opening and closing the scarred fingers. They still pained him, but it felt good to have the wrappings off.

-AGOT, Jon IX

Not until he was well beyond the village did Jon slow again. By then both he and the mare were damp with sweat. He dismounted, shivering, his burned hand aching. A bank of melting snow lay under the trees, bright in the moonlight, water trickling off to form small shallow pools. Jon squatted and brought his hands together, cupping the runoff between his fingers. The snowmelt was icy cold. He drank, and splashed some on his face, until his cheeks tingled. His fingers were throbbing worse than they had in days, and his head was pounding too. I am doing the right thing, he told himself, so why do I feel so bad?

-AGOT, Jon IX

[owlsinathens]

“You give the order, then,” Jon told the maester. “You have been on the Wall your whole life, the men will follow you. We have to close the gate.” “I am a maester chained and sworn. My order serves, Jon. We give counsel, not commands.” “Someone must—” “You. You must lead.” “No.” “Yes, Jon. It need not be for long. Only until such time as the garrison returns. Donal chose you, and Qhorin Halfhand before him. Lord Commander Mormont made you his steward. You are a son of Winterfell, a nephew of Benjen Stark. It must be you or no one. The Wall is yours, Jon Snow.”

ASOS, Jon VIII

[istumpysk]

I just saw an A fan claim that Sansa hearing a *ghost* wolf howling in the Vale does not imply Jon because A and other Starks also hear wolves howling all the time, its a Stark characteristic. 🤡🤡 I didn't know all the Starks have ghost wolves, I thought it was just Jon. Anyway there are two other instances of wind howling like a wolf and it is always connected to Jon somehow.

1) Above Snow, the wind was a living thing, howling around them like a wolf in the waste, then falling off to nothing as if to lure them into complacency. (Catelyn VI, AGoT)

2) That night the wind was howling almost like a wolf and there were some real wolves off to the west giving it lessons. (...) The woman could not have been more than three feet tall. The firelight made her eyes gleam as red as the eyes of Jon's wolf. He was a ghost too. (Arya VIII ASoS)

If someone is seriously struggling to make the connection between Jon and "ghost wolf," they might benefit from revisiting the ninth grade.

[asongofstarkandtargaryen]

I wouldn't blame them, if they actually did. I mean the man does sound annoying.

Septon Cellador began to sing as well, his voice tremulous and thick with wine.

Gentle mother, fond of mercy,

save our sons from war, we pray,

stay the swords and stay the arrows,

let them know...

Donal Noye rounded on him "Any man here stays his sword, I'll chuck his puckered arse right off this Wall...starting with you,Septon.

Mammoths trumpeted in the gloom, strange voices called out in stranger tongues, and Septon Cellador prayed so loudly and drunkenly for the dawn to come that Jon was tempted to chuck him over the edge himself.

[esther-dot]

I really annoyed by You know nothing, Jon Snow quote. Yes he didn't know about Wildlings culture before he went there as undercover. But that doesn't mean that Jon is fully unaware. Besides this quote can apply to Ygritte too as she herself don't know thing other than Wildlings. I hate that people put her as some kind of role model for Jon.

It is an insulting thing to say, isn’t it? It feels like Ygritte is constantly accusing him of being stupid when he simply had no exposure, no way of knowing what she knew about her people and way of life. And, you’re right, he does make an effort to understand her perspective, chooses to evolve his worldview while she soundly, violently at times, rejects his. If we want to feel better about it, I think I can argue that some of the repetitions highlight wonderful things about Jon, and criticize Ygritte:

"Why are you weeping?" Jon asked. "It was only a song. There are hundreds of giants, I've just seen them."

"Oh, hundreds," she said furiously. "You know nothing, Jon Snow. (ASOS, Jon II)

Jon seems painfully naïve here, but like the good-hearted kid he is, he tries to set himself right:

"I … my lord, the men would never … giants eat human flesh, I think … no, my lord, I thank you, but I do not have the men to watch over such a creature, he …"

Jon Snow was unsurprised. "As you wish. We will keep the giant here." Truth be told, he would have been loath to part with Wun Wun. You know nothing, Jon Snow, Ygritte might say, but Jon spoke with the giant whenever he could, through Leathers or one of the free folk they had brought back from the grove, and was learning much and more about his people and their history. He only wished that Sam were here to write the stories down.

That was not to say that he was blind to the danger Wun Wun represented. The giant would lash out violently when threatened, and those huge hands were strong enough to rip a man apart. He reminded Jon of Hodor. Hodor twice as big, twice as strong, and half as clever. There's a thought to sober even Septon Cellador. But if Tormund has giants with him, Wun Weg Wun Dar Wun may help us treat with them. (ADWD, Jon VIII)

He learns about the land, tunnels that go under the Wall (ASOS, Jon III), he has sex for the first time (ASOS, Jon III), Ygritte tells him about stealing and he rejects the notion that he stole her, their conflict of worldviews playing out in their interpersonal dynamics (ASOS, Jon III; Jon V), and then it comes up in the context of their relationship, Jon’s feelings, knowing himself and what he wants:

"We should." Her breasts bounced as she stood on one leg to pull one boot, then hopped onto her other foot to attend to the other. Her nipples were wide pink circles. "You as well," Ygritte said as she yanked down her sheepskin breeches. "If you want to look you have to show. You know nothing, Jon Snow."

"I know I want you," he heard himself say, all his vows and all his honor forgotten. She stood before him naked as her name day, and he was as hard as the rock around them. He had been in her half a hundred times by now, but always beneath the furs, with others all around them. He had never seen how beautiful she was. Her legs were skinny but well muscled, the hair at the juncture of her thighs a brighter red than that on her head. Does that make it even luckier? He pulled her close. "I love the smell of you," he said. "I love your red hair. I love your mouth, and the way you kiss me. I love your smile. I love your teats." He kissed them, one and then the other. "I love your skinny legs, and what's between them." He knelt to kiss her there, lightly on her mound at first, but Ygritte moved her legs apart a little, and he saw the pink inside and kissed that as well, and tasted her. She gave a little gasp. "If you love me all so much, why are you still dressed?" she whispered. "You know nothing, Jon Snow. Noth—oh. Oh. OHHH." (ASOS, Jon III)

Interestingly, Ygritte uses as a deflection, not acknowledging her own feelings/vulnerability,

"The worst is behind us." Jon tried to sound confident. "Don't be frightened." He tried to put an arm around her.

Ygritte slammed the heel of her hand into his chest, so hard it stung even through his layers of wool, mail, and boiled leather. "I wasn't frightened. You know nothing, Jon Snow."

"Why are you crying, then?" (ASOS, Jon IV)

It is even used to highlight that in some things, Jon knows better, and it is Ygritte who was naïve, stubbornly refusing to accept reality,

It was a fine brave boast, but it rang hollow. Jon glanced back to make certain the Magnar was not in earshot. Errok, Big Boil, and Hempen Dan were walking a few yards behind them, but paying no attention. Big Boil was complaining of his arse. "Ygritte," he said in a low voice, "Mance cannot win this war."

"He can!" she insisted. "You know nothing, Jon Snow. You have never seen the free folk fight!"

Wildlings fought like heroes or demons, depending on who you talked to, but it came down to the same thing in the end. They fight with reckless courage, every man out for glory. "I don't doubt that you're all very brave, but when it comes to battle, discipline beats valor every time. In the end Mance will fail as all the Kings-beyond-the-Wall have failed before him. And when he does, you'll die. All of you." (ASOS, Jon V)

"We'll go back to the cave," he said. "You're not going to die, Ygritte. You're not."

"Oh." Ygritte cupped his cheek with her hand. "You know nothing, Jon Snow," she sighed, dying. (ASOS, Jon VII)

It's an interesting progression, or, more accurately, as Jon has been right about a few things all along during their relationship, a continual undermining of Ygritte’s dismissal of what Jon does know.

He keeps thinking the phrase after her death, so we haven't escaped it yet, but sometimes it's paired with the idea that he has learned (ADWD, Jon I; ADWD, Jon VII). Sadly, it also comes up as self-doubt, self-recrimination, with a deep sense of hopelessness. It definitely is grating if you aren’t a fan of Ygritte, but some of its appearances are interesting if you can see past that, and think of the positive things it says about Jon.

[baelontargaryen]

ASOIAF + Wind and words

Robert set the pace, driving his huge black destrier hard as Ned galloped along beside him, trying to keep up. He called out a question as they rode, but the wind blew his words away, and the king did not hear him. After that Ned rode in silence. They soon left the kingsroad and took off across rolling plains dark with mist. By then the guard had fallen back a small distance, safely out of earshot, but still Robert would not slow. — AGOT, Eddard I

“Then Lord Eddard is a man in ten thousand. Most of us are not so strong. What is honor compared to a woman’s love? What is duty against the feel of a newborn son in your arms … or the memory of a brother’s smile? Wind and words. Wind and words. We are only human, and the gods have fashioned us for love. That is our great glory, and our great tragedy. — AGOT, Jon VIII

“Well, as to that, some gave me soft words and some blunt, some made excuses, some promises, some only lied.” He shrugged. “In the end words are just wind.” — ACOK, Prologue

The maester laughed at that. “And there you have it, my lord. Words are wind, you know, and you’ve blown mine away with your good sense. His Grace knows what he has in you, I think.” — ASOS, Davos V

“Words. Words are wind. Why do you think I abandoned Dragonstone and sailed to the Wall, Lord Snow?” — ASOS, Jon XI

“Words are wind. If you love me, do not leave me.” — AFFC, A Soiled Knight

“. . . did not stop you slaying Aerys. Words are wind. You could have had me, but you chose a cloak instead. Get out.” — AFFC, Jaime II

“Words are wind,” Victarion told them, “and the only good wind is that which fills our sails. Would you have me fight the Crow’s Eye? Brother against brother, ironborn against ironborn?” Euron was still his elder, no matter how much bad blood might be between them. No man is as accursed as the kinslayer. — AFFC, The Iron Captain

Words are wind, Brienne told herself. They cannot hurt you. Let them wash over you. “As you command, my lord,” she tried to say, but Tarly had gone before she got it out. She walked from the yard like one asleep, not knowing where she was going. — AFFC, Brienne V

“So you say. Words are wind. When the hour is ripe, you may produce this paragon of yours and we will see if he is all that you have promised.” — AFFC, Cersei VII

The thing that had been Catelyn Stark took hold of her throat again, fingers pinching at the ghastly long slash in her neck, and choked out more sounds. “Words are wind, she says,” the northman told Brienne. “She says that you must prove your faith.” — AFFC, Brienne VIII

“Fine words.” Tyrion was unimpressed. “Words are wind. Who is this bloody savior?” — ADWD, Tyrion I

[...] “From all I hear, his lordship’s fatter than ever. So much for vows. Words are wind, and the wind from Manderly’s mouth means no more than the wind escaping out his bottom.” — ADWD, Davos I

“Words are wind,” said the young woman behind Lord Wyman’s high seat, the handsome one with the long brown braid. “And men will lie to get their way, as any maid could tell you.” — ADWD, Davos III

He shall be the stallion that mounts the world. Dany knew how it went with prophecies. They were made of words, and words were wind. There would be no son for Loraq, no heir to unite dragon and harpy. When the sun rises in the west and sets in the east, when the seas go dry and mountains blow in the wind like leaves. Only then would her womb quicken once again … ... Dany folded her hands together. “Words are wind, even words like love and peace. I put more trust in deeds. In my Seven Kingdoms, knights go on quests to prove themselves worthy of the maiden that they love. They seek for magic swords, for chests of gold, for crowns stolen from a dragon’s hoard.” — ADWD, Daenerys IV

Iron Emmett grimaced. “Men are men, vows are words, and words are wind. You should put guards around the women.” — ADWD, Jon VII

“Be that as it may, they do not trust you. The men of New Ghis feel the same. Words are wind, as you yourself have so oft said. No words of yours will secure this peace for Meereen. Your foes require deeds. They would see us wed, and they would see me crowned as king, to rule beside you.” — ADWD, Daenerys VI

“That is good to hear,” the prince said, “but words are wind. You are my brother’s daughters and I love you, but I have learned I cannot trust you. I want your oath. Will you swear to serve me, to do as I command?” — ADWD, The Watcher

“—that I am half a wildling myself, a turncloak who means to sell the realm to our raiders, cannibals, and giants.” Jon did not need to stare into a fire to know what was being said of him. The worst part was, they were not wrong, not wholly. “Words are wind, and the wind is always blowing at the Wall. Come.” — ADWD, Jon VIII

“Words are wind.” They are no better than me. We’re just the same. “You killed the others, why not him? Yellow Dick—” — ADWD, Theon I

The words seemed to give the girl some comfort. Words are wind, though, Ser Barristan thought. How can I protect the queen when I am not with her? — ADWD, The Queensguard

His years in the Kingsguard had taught him the trick of listening without hearing, especially useful when the speaker was intent on proving that words were truly wind. — ADWD, The Discarded Knight

Cersei walked on. I am blind and deaf, and they are worms, she told herself. “Shame, shame,” the septas sang. “Chestnuts, hot roast chestnuts,” a peddler cried. “Queen Cunt,” a drunkard pronounced solemnly from a balcony above, lifting his cup to her in a mocking toast. “All hail the royal teats!” Words are wind, Cersei thought. Words cannot harm me .… Words are wind, she thought, words cannot hurt me. — ADWD, Cersei II

A steady drip-drip-drip punctuated his words, as snowmelt ran off his cloak to puddle on the floor. The snow had been falling on King’s Landing most of the night; outside the drifts were ankle deep. Ser Kevan Lannister pulled his cloak about himself more closely. “So you say, ser. Words are wind.” — ADWD, Epilogue

[nightswatchdisbandmentera]

Of Kings and Pigs

I did a post before about how GRRM connects Jon Snow to Westeros’ ruling kings through laughter, but today I want to do one on how Jon is connected to these rulers through the imagery of pigs…

Let’s start with Jon. He takes an arrow to the leg after defecting from the wildlings and notes:

I am bleeding like a butchered pig, he thought, but there was nothing to be done for it until the arrow was out.

- Jon V, ASOS

So now, let’s look at which kings in the story are compared to pigs, especially bloody ones.

The first king is Aerys II, Jon’s grandfather.

Beneath the empty eyes of the skulls on the walls, Jaime hauled the last dragonking bodily off the steps, squealing like a pig and smelling like a privy.

- Jaime II, ASOS

In my previous post, I noted that Jon and Aerys were linked through laughter. There, it is said that Jon laughed like a drunk or a madman. We know that his grandfather, King Aerys, is the madman but who is the drunk?

Well, that brings us to our next king, Robert Baratheon.

“Look at us, Ned,” Robert said. “Gods, how did we come to this? You here, and me killed by a pig. We won a throne together …”

- Eddard XV, AGOT

So we have a connection between Jon and two butchered kings who have sat upon the Iron Throne. But we have a more general connection with all the kings in Westeros:

The cooks were serving the meat course: five suckling pigs, skin seared and crackling, a different fruit in every mouth.

- Tyrion VIII, AGOT

The quote above seems to be foreshadowing for the coming war of the five kings. Each pig has a different fruit in its mouth in the same way that each king held a different region in the war.

So we have rulers occupying all of Westeros being connected to butchered pigs, and then we have the bastard boy Jon Snow - who, while unaware of his royal blood, is marked as KING by the narrative.

[thelustybraavosimaid]

"I know where we could go," Arya said. She still had one brother left. Jon will want me, even if no one else does. (Arya XII, ASoS)

--

She went back to the window, Needle in hand, and looked down into the courtyard below. If only she could climb like Bran, she thought; she would go out the window and down the tower, run away from this horrible place, away from Sansa and Septa Mordane and Prince Joffrey, from all of them. Steal some food from the kitchens, take Needle and her good boots and a warm cloak. She could find Nymeria in the wild woods below the Trident, and together they'd return to Winterfell, or run to Jon on the Wall. She found herself wishing that Jon was here with her now. Then maybe she wouldn't feel so alone. (Arya II, AGoT)

"She thinks that if she finds the right god, maybe he will send the winds and blow her old love back to her," said one-eyed Yna, who had known her longest, "but I pray it never happens. Her love is dead, I could taste that in her blood. If he ever should come back to her, it will be a corpse." (Cat of the Canals, AFfC)

--

Ygritte watched and said nothing. She was older than he'd thought at first, Jon realized; maybe as old as twenty, but short for her age, bandy-legged, with a round face, small hands, and a pug nose. Her shaggy mop of red hair stuck out in all directions. She looked plump as she crouched there, but most of that was layers of fur and wool and leather. Underneath all that she could be as skinny as Arya. (Jon VI, ACoK)

--

She wasn't wed and her weapon of choice was a short curved bow of horn and weirwood, but "spearwife" fit her all the same. She reminded him a little of his sister Arya, though Arya was younger and probably skinnier. It was hard to tell how plump or thin Ygritte might be, with all the furs and skins she wore. (Jon II, ASoS)

--

"If you kill a man, and never mean t', he's just as dead," Ygritte said stubbornly. Jon had never met anyone so stubborn, except maybe for his little sister Arya. Is she still my sister? he wondered. Was she ever? (Jon III, ASoS)

Jon could almost see her in that moment, long-faced and gawky, all knobby knees and sharp elbows, with her dirty face and tangled hair. They would wash the one and comb the other, he did not doubt, but he could not imagine Arya in a wedding gown, nor Ramsay Bolton's bed. No matter how afraid she is, she will not show it. If he tries to lay a hand on her, she'll fight him. (Jon VI, ADwD)

--

"The heart is all that matters. Do not despair, Lord Snow. Despair is a weapon of the enemy, whose name may not be spoken. Your sister is not lost to you."

"I have no sister." The words were knives. What do you know of my heart, priestess? What do you know of my sister?

Melisandre seemed amused. "What is her name, this little sister that you do not have?"

"Arya." His voice was hoarse. "My half-sister, truly..."

--

Would she still have that little sword he'd had Mikken forge for her? Stick them with the pointy end, he'd told her. Wisdom for her wedding night if half of what he heard of Ramsay Snow was true. Bring her home, Mance. I saved your son from Melisandre, and now I am about to save four thousand of your free folk. You owe me this one little girl. (Jon XI, ADwD)

She wondered if he would still call her "little sister." I'm not so little anymore. He'd have to call me something else. (Arya VIII, ASoS)

--

The girl smiled in a way that reminded Jon so much of his little sister that it almost broke his heart. "Let him be scared of me." The snowflakes were melting on her cheeks, but her hair was wrapped in a swirl of lace that Satin had found somewhere, and the snow had begun to collect there, giving her a frosty crown. Her cheeks were flushed and red, and her eyes sparkled. (Jon X, ADwD)

--

You know nothing, Jon Snow. He thought of Arya, her hair as tangled as a bird's nest. I made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell…I want my bride back…I want my bride back…I want my bride back… (Jon XIII, ADwD)

[dyannawynnedayne]

Which character parallel is your favorite?

Jaime and Loras: art by @imjustapoorwayfaringgeek (1,2)

Quentyn and Theon: art by @acewithapencil (1,2)

Jaime and Loras

Too Good Too Young

He's me. I am speaking to myself, as I was, all cocksure arrogance and empty chivalry. This is what it does to you, to be too good too young.

ASOS, Jaime VIII

Quentyn and Theon

'Fostered' From a Young Age

"I love my brother," said Arianne, though only the moon could hear her. Though if truth be told, she scarcely knew him. Quentyn had been fostered by Lord Anders of House Yronwood, the Bloodroyal, the son of Lord Ormond Yronwood and grandson of Lord Edgar. In his youth her uncle Oberyn had fought a duel with Edgar, had given him a wound that mortified and killed him. Afterward men called him 'the Red Viper,' and spoke of poison on his blade. The Yronwoods were an ancient house, proud and powerful. Before the coming of the Rhoynar they had been kings over half of Dorne, with domains that dwarfed those of House Martell. Blood feud and rebellion would surely have followed Lord Edgar's death, had not her father acted at once. The Red Viper went to Oldtown, thence across to the narrow sea to Lys, though none dared call it exile. And in due time, Quentyn was given to Lord Anders to foster as a sign of trust. That helped to heal the breach between Sunspear and the Yronwoods, but it had opened new ones between Quentyn and the Sand Snakes... and Arianne had always been closer to her cousins than to her distant brother.

TWOW, Arianne I

Theon held his tongue, though not without struggle. So that is the way of it, he thought. As if ten years in Winterfell could make a Stark. Lord Eddard had raised him among his own children, but Theon had never been one of them. The whole castle, from Lady Stark to the lowliest kitchen scullion, knew he was hostage to his father's good behavior, and treated him accordingly. Even the bastard Jon Snow had been accorded more honor than he had. Lord Eddard had tried to play the father from time to time, but to Theon he had always remained the man who'd brought blood and fire to Pyke and taken him from his home. As a boy, he had lived in fear of Stark's stern face and great dark sword. His wife was, if anything, even more distant and suspicious.

ACOK, Theon I

[agentrouka-blog]

I think anon wanted to say that we don't talk about Jon's desire to be a king much, as we believe his deepest wish is to become Lord of Winterfell and have a domestic and happy life. Which is absolutely true. Nothing would ever come close to his desire to have Winterfell and a family, he likens it to a sharp as dragonglass hunger deep inside him. Such a visceral choice of words, like it is ingrained deep in him, on the other hand, him idealizing the Young Dragon and the Dragonknight are just childhood fantasies.

(post referenced)

Hi anon!

Maybe they meant to imply that we are denying a fundamental part of Jon's character by not focusing on his childhood idealization of a Targaryen conqueror? Which, of course... silly?

His idealisation is not only constantly undermined, it is also focused on a historical figure and his propaganda "De Bello Gallico"-inspired autobiographical self-praise book. The war-based equivalent of the "Aemon and Naerys" romantic songs that Sansa is into. A deep contradiction of the family's very real and very recent traumatic hostility toward House Targaryen this is not. Daeron lived over a century earlier. Aerys is only fifteen years dead.

I mean, Jon has no evident desire to be king anywhere in the text. Only the fantasy to earn through impressive merit what he cannot have by birth.

His desire for recognition and importance follows a fairly similar pattern in all attendant fantasies.

"Daeren Targaryen was only fourteen when he conquered Dorne," Jon said. The Young Dragon was one of his heroes. (AGOT, Jon I)

When Jon had been Bran's age, he had dreamed of doing great deeds, as boys always did. The details of his feats changed with every dreaming, but quite often he imagined saving his father's life. Afterward Lord Eddard would declare that Jon had proved himself a true Stark, and place Ice in his hand. Even then he had known it was only a child's folly; no bastard could ever hope to wield a father's sword. Even the memory shamed him. (AGOT, Jon VIII)

If I could show her Winterfell . . . give her a flower from the glass gardens, feast her in the Great Hall, and show her the stone kings on their thrones. We could bathe in the hot pools, and love beneath the heart tree while the old gods watched over us. The dream was sweet . . . but Winterfell would never be his to show. It belonged to his brother, the King in the North. He was a Snow, not a Stark. Bastard, oathbreaker, and turncloak . . . (ASOS, Jon V)

When Jon had been very young, too young to understand what it meant to be a bastard, he used to dream that one day Winterfell might be his. Later, when he was older, he had been ashamed of those dreams. (ASOS, Jon XI)

A son was something Jon Snow had never dared dream of, since he decided to live his life on the Wall. I could name him Robb. Val would want to keep her sister's son, but we could foster him at Winterfell, and Gilly's boy as well. [...] He wanted it, Jon knew then. He wanted it as much as he had ever wanted anything. I have always wanted it, he thought, guiltily. May the gods forgive me. It was a hunger inside him, sharp as a dragonglass blade.  (ASOS, Jon XII)

When Jon had been a boy at Winterfell, his hero had been the Young Dragon, the boy king who had conquered Dorne at the age of fourteen. Despite his bastard birth, or perhaps because of it, Jon Snow had dreamed of leading men to glory just as King Daeron had, of growing up to be a conqueror. Now he was a man grown and the Wall was his, yet all he had were doubts. He could not even seem to conquer those. (ADWD, Jon VII)

He dreams of doing something amazing and impressive. -> He dreams of being rewarded by being recognized as a true Stark. -> He is immediately ashamed of the fantasy.

Even his later, less intricate fantasies entirely circle around Winterfell. Ygritte isn't the star of that fantasy, Winterfell is. Val isn't the star of that fantasy, Winterfell is.

The Daeron worship fits very neatly into the "amazing and impressive" category of achievement that is then followed by the reward, which is Stark-centered. Copying Daeron is only a means to an end, ultimately. His young age is the main draw here, because it makes for a great projection surface for a young boy dreaming of glory ASAP so he can be just a little more worthy of being a Stark all the sooner.

Always Stark-centered. Winterfell-centered.

As you say, it's visceral and deeply ingrained. Interesting to talk about and analyze. Unlike the Daeron fantasies.