#bmc discourse

[rebuke-me]

broadway bmc critiques

this is a list of all my critiques of broadway bmc, in no particular order. this is not a post meant to hate those who are fans of Broadway bmc, because preference is subjective. I did my best to keep personal bias out of it, but some aspects are inextricable. please keep discussions civil. if you think critique will make you upset, I encourage you to skip this post.

- the writing is significantly watered down for the audience. while the original show was not a masterpiece of writing by any means, it only occasionally talks down to the audience. part of my interest in the original show was the open-ended characters. however, in the Broadway version, subtext is made into text, and that really hurts the show. most of the characters in tr had presumed depth, whereas bw wrote sync up: a song telling everyone exactly what was wrong with every character, rather than having the viewers observe it for themselves through dialogue and actions. tr already laid that foundation, it already had the character development. fans had already been analyzing the characters for years, and everyone pretty much got what they meant. bw felt, to me, like it was holding my hand through it and explaining to me every aspect of the characters.

- the writing of the new songs especially is. incredibly contrived. I've listened to the songs as I can bear (I do not like some of the voices in the songs, so I will admit to not listening to all of the songs, but I did make an attempt.) and the writing is significantly worse. while the tr songs weren't masterpieces, by any means, they were at least catchy and fun. the appeal of the bmc music is the earworm of it all, the way that it's fun and memorable. the bw versions new songs have not stuck in my head whatsoever, unlike the previous songs. loser geek whatever is another case of telling the audience rather than showing it: fans of tr already knew Jeremy was upset about being an outcast. we understood that. his decision at the end of upgrade was understandable to audiences, although usually not agreed with. an entire song with the writers literally physically telling the audience how he is feeling, in simple rhyme and a melody that doesn't stick out, wasn't necessary. a new song was intriguing, and could have fleshed out plot holes of the original show, but instead just tried shoving another square peg into a hole we had already been made aware of.

- fan pandering. this is an aspect of every media that has a large internet fan base, especially in the past ten years. while some aspects of the show may have been in the plans all along, the Broadway version feels like they were too engrossed in the fan culture. im a big proponent for creators being divorced from their fans, and the Broadway version is why. the addition of more moments implying a romantic connection between rich and michael at the end, with no discussion of character development, felt shoehorned in for the fans. Michael as a whole shifted closer to the fanon interpretation of him, rather than remaining the character from the original show, becoming more soft spoken and awkward.

- failure to add in diversity in a respectful way. (to preface this, I am a white person. if I say anything out of line in this section, I am more than willing to admit that, and would love to hear from the perspective of poc bmc fans, especially black fans.) a main critique of tr bmc in my opinion is the way it handled a lot of heavy topics, including diversity and the like. bw bmc made strides towards giving roles to non-white actors, which is always a good thing. however, the characters chosen for the diversity were made more stereotypical for being made into poc. jenna rolan became more of a stereotype of a talkative, phone obsessed black woman. Jenna is the less egregious example of this, as she has more depth. however, jake being black makes his character traits of being the child of money launderers, being violent towards others, being unhoused and physically harmed in the fire, not knowing how to "speak properly" at times and being a "player" seem more racially motivated. of course, none of these aspects of a character are bad, per se, but all combined into a character that is now black feels stereotypical.

- failure to fix some issues with tr. I am always willing to critique my own interests. while I have a preference towards tr, and a fixation on it, I will admit it has issues. notably, these include telling rather than showing (an issue that only got worse in bw), the treatment of female characters, and a variety of other issues. female characters in bw still have the same issues, as a whole. brooke is still the stereotypical blonde ditz. she does get a bit of development, but an opportunity for her to stand up for herself could have been needed in bw. christine is still little more than the love interest, and still ends up with the main character at the end, despite being meant to be a feminist, complete with patch on her jacket. the female characters rarely talk to each other about anything other than a man, or gossip, usually about men. none of them form solid friendships with no romantic ties with almost any of the male characters, either. the show costumes the characters in apparel that preaches feminism and writes a message about equality and being yourself, yet bars most character development from the female characters. this could have been rectified in bw, considering an entire song was added and scenes were rewritten, but was not.

I have other issues with the show, but those are more personal critiques with preferences, rather than in depth analysis of why I think the show is not as beloved by the fan base as a whole. those aren't going to be added here, because a lot of them don't lend any credence to my arguments, they're just personal opinions on character choices and actors.

if anything I've said in this post is incorrect, please let me know. I admit I'm not very well versed in the Broadway show, since I very much dislike it, so if any details are incorrect, I'd love to hear your thoughts.

also like. don't be a dick in the replies and tags please, that'd be nice. civil conversation and debate is okay, but attacking people for their interests is not.

[mountain-dew-tickledpink]

idk what this is

[2ndstar-ontheright]

fighting over bmc in the year 2024 isn’t just silly, it’s homophobic

it’s pride month AND men’s mental health month. Do better smh

[sydneyofalltrades]

there’s so much i wish i could see from the two river bmc production

i’m just grateful this cast recording is keeping me afloat

[lohstandfound]

ignore this.

learning to shut up when i dont have anything new to say to the discussions my mutuals are having about the treatment of the female characters in this show and fandom

even though ive just gone ahead and rambled in the tags a bunch of bullshit

[biohazard-inevitable]

I wish I was a bit better and less insecure about my art so I could single-handedly fill the squipjer and squipemy tag with something other than antis spouting death threats

[anonyb0b]

Squipemy discourse (from a person who doesn't ship it)

Again I do not ship this. Ok so I understand that this opinion isn’t popular. I want to say it though because it’s been a long time in forming. I’ve come from a past I’m not proud of and I'm working on it.

I know that there are some people who ship squipemy.  I am not one of those people. Personally, the ship is not for me. However, Jeremy and the SQUIP’s dynamic is interesting to explore, in whatever way that dynamic is portrayed. 

That being said, I believe that people create their own fandom experience and have the right to create whatever they want as long as they aren’t hurting anyone. I believe that people who ship squipemy are doing just this; creating their own fandom experience and creating what they want without hurting anyone.  I don’t think we should be harassing them over what they ship.  Part of why I don’t ship squipjere is because the SQUIP is abusive to Jeremy, and I personally don’t like to ship those sort of relationships. This is not me criticizing squipemy shippers, those kinds of ships are just an ick for me.  That being said, I am sure that no one who ships squipemy actually supports pedophilia/abusive relationships in real life. Also, I’d like to shout out that the people who ship it are good at tagging their stuff, and I thank you for your tagging :) (I have the tags blocked, and I rarely see anything). 

Speaking of tagging, I’ve heard that the squipemy tag is filled with hate, which I get. Squipemy is seen as a moral qualm. However, I believe that discourse on the ship is best tagged with a discourse tag or another variation, because there are people who do like the ship and would be upset by the hate. Everyone is a real person with real feelings that can be hurt, and not just a faceless blob on the internet. 

Thank you for reading. I would like to reiterate that I do not ship squipemy, but I don’t hate the people who do. People who don’t ship squipemy and people who do,  you’re valid.  Keep making the things you love in a fictional space :) 

 I am open to discussion should anyone want to talk to me about this. I may not answer right away as I am busy this week, but I will try to get back to you in a timely manner.

[chlostine]

lacy by olivia rodrigo is christine about chloe, bodybag by chloe moriondo is chloe about christine and I am correct

[annabelle--cane]

I saw be more chill live on broadway Twice. I was around when the first of the insane ship names were being created based off the in-jokes of one friend group. I saw the rise and fall of the most glorious misinfo about the original production you ever did see. I saw heated discourse about whether teenagers in real life were being pedophilic by writing smut about fictional teenaged characters who were exclusively played by adults over the age of 25. I witnessed my comrades write unspeakable things about every flavor of mountain dew and I enjoyed it thoroughly. the first major writing project I ever completed was a 32k long bmc big bang fic that I wrote almost end-to-end in a kind of mania over the course of four days. living through 2017 be more chill fandom as a deeply unwell fifteen-year-old is an experience with no true equivalent, no words really exist to explain it. it was the best of times, it was the worst of times.

[thesnailkiwi]

Dude why is everyone suddenly talking about 2river vs bway bmc? What happened dawg? Can't we leave that in 2019???

ITS THE SAME DAMN MUSICAL PEOPLE??? Just listen to the version you like. There's multiple versions for a reason? There's no reason to make discourse that ended years ago

[thepartysdone]

im so upset about what the bmc tag has come to like... what's with the discourse. YOU cannot complain about discourse and people hating in the tag when YOU specifically were the one who brought it up FIRST. like this place was peaceful until you made a post about it and of course people are gonna fucking. TALK ABOUT IT...???

[thatonenerdyloser]

i can’t believe i relogged into my tumblr FROM MIDDLE SCHOOL to talk about be more chill but here we go.

Seeing modern be more chill fans literally hurts me, and so I’m commenting on so much of the discourse.

1. “The bootleg”: A full bootleg of the two rivers version of be more chill did exist. I believe it was copyright stricken and wiped from the internet around the time be more chill broadway was in the works. Now it’s considered lost media, but I can absolutely without a doubt promise you that a bootleg did exist at one point. During 2019, many musical bootlegs were wiped from the internet. It was part of the copyright restrictions on youtube changing. Be more chill is unfortunately one of the the ones that never got reuploaded but I can without a doubt confirm that be more chill two rivers bootleg did exist.

2. “Will Roland”: I am not a will roland liker but it’s important to actually understand the history of why Will Roland was in be more chill in the first place. Will Roland had just finished his run in the obc of dear evan hansen. Because be more chill had a similar fanbase as dear evan hansen and will roland had become so popular during his run on dear evan hansen, joe thought that will roland would help promote bmc bway more than will connonly would. You see that a lot of the original cast from two rivers who were deemed less popular were replaced. Will Connonly himself said he would have loved to stay with be more chill. I believe be more chill broadway to be the case of a bad telephone game. The switch of jeremy being a selfish horny teenage boy in the book to a clearly neurodivergent cute queer coded character on broadway is horrifically insane to me. But be more chill broadway, and will roland, cared more about what sold than about artistic integrity. Which is why so many og bmc fans hate bmc broadway.

Anyway I have more to say on be more chill but those were the discourse I saw when I opened tumblr to see why yall were hating on assmuncher27.

[mountain-dew-tickledpink]

when you love christine but one side of the fandom makes her bad for getting in the way of a ship and the other half dumbs her down and makes her whole personality #girlboss

[2ndstar-ontheright]

Be more chill where everything’s the same except the squip is MatPat and it’s just him ranting to Jeremy the entire time

[thesquipirl]

I thought we stopped with the actor discourse or am I a dumbass for thinking this..

in other news i may leave the bmc fandom because why are we getting toxic up in here

[5eraphim]

eras of tumblr i could give hour-long Ted Talks about

(only including eras i participated in, not what i’ve lived through second-handedly. these are what i personally remember seeing on my dash, i’m sure there’s plenty i missed. This is an ongoing list/not fixed/subject to future edits.)

2015 gravity falls 

the rise of sexyman bill cipher 

depravity falls and putting 12 yr old characters in violent guro situations 

alex hirsch worship

billdip discourse

the diehard thirst for Gruncle Ford 

“i want to fuck that dorito”

2015/16 Black Butler

SebaCiel discourse

Grelle discourse (like, i don’t even know how to elaborate, but if you were there you would remember how people were fighting over her characterization in all different directions. Which is funny because, love her or hate her, she is barely even in the show lol)

The needlessly intense sjw vs anti-sjw/ fiction doesn’t effect reality/ shipping fighting

can’t quantify this, but i swear 80% of the fans were ex-hetalia fans 

Black butler 2 being either loved or hated, while book of circus was almost unanimously loved

the Scott Freeman incident...

no one giving a fuck about the female characters

Yana/Jay Michael Tatum worship

2016 Undertale

Sans undertale sexyman rise

the most raw video game soundtrack of all time

papyton

no one agrees how to draw undyne, but we all agree that she’s gay as fuck

(This is a personal anecdote, but i actually made a friend in highschool bc i drew undertale fanart on the board at latin class nd she added to it the next day, i added to it the next day and eventually we met up and it was so adorable)

“get dunked on”

2016-17 hamilton, heathers, great comet, dear evan hansen, be more chill musical theater insanity

rip tumblr user galactibun

The Hamilton craze breathing new life into the 1776 musical fandom

Most bizarre fanfic aus seen on tumblr thus far (hamilton)

The great comet Tony snubs

BMC and DEH blowing up, despite most fans only caring about the characters, totally ignoring the plot.

“Miku binder Thomas Jefferson”

No one giving a fuck about “The Hamilton Mixtape”

Gatekeeping fans who didn’t read war and peace or the ron chernow biography (i don’t think anyone ever gave a shit about the BMC orginal book which is SO FUNNY)

lin manuel miranda worship

real people fanfictions of actors/shipping them (especially hamilton!)

Key Figures include: Lin Manuel Miranda, Ron Chernow, Philipa Soo, Daveed Diggs, Ben Platt, George Salazar, Barette Wilbert Weed, and Mike Faist

2016-2017 the yuri on ice, killing stalking, kaikyu yaoi trifecta 

Yaoi take over

The anime fans collective salt over YOI winning anime of the year 2016

Not in this time period, but the Killing Stalking fans despising the ending en mass several years later.

Free! was also huge as the second season concluded not long before, but wasn’t receiving new updated in Realtime like the other three.

honestly? i mostly just remember people drawing some of the most beautiful fan art of the characters and not bothering to follow the plots

2015-2016 steven universe discourse peak craziness 

There are no words, looking back this all feels like a fever dream

Insane fan-theories (as in- even for Tumblr, these theories were very out there)

Pink diamond character derailment

“watching steven universe is the opposite of eating pussy” 

Gemosonas

fusion = sex???

“it’s over isn’t it” single-handedly inspiring some of the most beautiful fan art to come out of the show; "Stronger than you” def inspired much more fan-creations, but they were nowhere near as good imo

That terrible lily peet video that sent a tidal wave of fandom-fighting 

Concrete

Nicki Minaj guest appearance 

the porn avalanche predating the 2018 nsfw ban

My OG account got banned >:( (i never posted porn, tried to email support to no avail, I DID NOT DEVERVE THIS YOU NARCS)

50-50 mix of people posting lewd art and people posting links to find them as they migrated to twitter

“Female presenting nipples”

The return of the citrus scale (orange: PG/G, Lime: PG-13, Lemon: R, Grapefruit: X)

“Too Spicy for Tumblr”

Didn’t even stop the porn bots, mostly just screwed over artists and writers

IMO the peak of user v staff animosity

2020 hannibal

The small but loyal anthony hopkins defenders

Some of the most beautiful creative gore art

The moodboard to web-weaving pipeline

People being surprisingly respectful of fans who only watched the show, or who didn’t read Red Dragon/Silence of the Lambs, or where otherwise not invested in the greater overall Hannibal canon.

Manipulate, mansplain, malewife

Key Figures Include: Madds Mikkelson, Hugh Dancy, Anthony Hopkins

november 5, 2020

You just had to be there man, i don’t know what to tell you.

Key Figures include: Donald Trump, Castiel, Dean Winchester, Joe Biden, Vladimir Putin, Nevada, Georgia, Wisconsin and debatably Sherlock season 5

the 2021 coquette girl blogger era

Lana del rey worship

The ungodly amount of softcore porn

Gaslight, gatekeep, girlboss

Glorification of eating disorders, benzos, trailer parks, predatory men, age gap relationships, and so much more!

Teenagers blogging about Russian lit you know they never read

Waifblr

Still not sure to this day how much of this was ironic and how much wasn’t?? Or if any of this was self-aware???

Yes babe you’re so bambi, kate moss, diet coke, wellbutrin, dasha nekrosova, ballet, klonopin, trad cath, fawn, dior, sofia coppela, can you please shut the fuck up now?

key figures include: Lana del Rey, Daisy Randone, Dasha Nekrosova, Nina Sayers, Fiona Apple, Anya Taylor Joy, Sylvia Plath, Kate Moss, Kirsten Dunst (probably so many more, but this is just off the top of my head)

(bonus)

2015/16- My personal earliest memories of really getting into tumblr, and witnessing the tail-end of the Hetalia reign

2016- the end of Homestuck

2016- the epidemic of overwatch porn

2016- Does Jumin Han is gay?

2017- RWBY’s nosedive in quality from season 3 to 4, losing the majority of the fanbase

2018 Boyfriend to Death civil war (Gatobob v ElectricPuke)

2018- Detroit become Human drops and the robot-fucking gatekeeping 

2018- the Game of thrones/Endgame joint disaster ending melt down

2019- Sub-par Omens

2020- the Dead by Daylight community rioting when Pyramid Head’s ass got nerfed

2020- Cyberpunk 2077 is released and is torn apart almost instantly. Looking back by my approximations post were made up of- 10% people who were actually playing the games and enjoying themselves, 20% people who were playing the game and WEREN’T having fun, 55% People who never bought/played the game who were making up crazy glitches for clout, 15% hardcore pornography of characters you’d never seen before. (I’m quite salty about this bc I worked at GameStop at this time and had people constantly talking about glitches in casual conversation and I just know most of these bitches were LYING.)

20??- don’t remember the exact dates, but phase 3 marvel was un-escapable at this time

2020/21- Succession blows up

2022 Ghost bc blows up on tiktok, the fandom already sizable on tumblr only goes up from here