#btvs commentary

[clarkgriffon]

Buffy Summers + Outfits (16/∞)

[layer-of-slayers]

Thinking about that ridiculous scene in s6 when Xander walks in on Spike and Buffy having some extremely noticeable sexual tension (and also some hand stuff going on i think?) in Buffy’s kitchen, where they are standing like 5 centimetres away from one another TOPS and yet still when Xander walks in his reaction is to obliviously snark at Spike about how he could “still be trying to mack on Buffy” and telling him to get it through his head that it’s “never going to happen”, which never quite made sense to me.

But now I am seeing it through the lenses of my new Xander realisation and noticing the parallel that Xander himself has (perhaps only subconsciously) traced between Spike and himself. He had a huge crush on Buffy and she rejected him and he knows she will never change her mind about it by s6 (though it sure took a while for that life lesson to sink in) and now he expects Spike to come to the same realisation. ‘Ugh, he’s still trying to mack on Buffy? Doesn’t he know she’s way out of their league? She’s already turned him down, told him so several times in fact, the next step is to accept it and move on, obviously, like Xander himself has had to do but trust Spike to be stubborn/annoying/bad at taking no for an answer.’

He’s seeing himself in Spike again, projecting his own attraction to Buffy and how that whole situation went down on Spike, assuming it must go the same way (except with Spike being Worse about it because of course as a vampire he’s inherently inferior to Xander himself in Xander’s eyes).

When it is revealed that Spike and Buffy had a thing in Entropy, Xander takes it as a personal betrayal. Xander bought into the Angel exception, into the story of Angel’s exceptionality. Yeah, Buffy loved him and dated him but he had a soul. It didn’t make him good enough in Xander’s eyes, but it did make him different. Spike doesn’t have that. Therefore, Buffy would never even consider him. And after Angel, Buffy dated Riley, normal human (mostly) who Xander loved. Riley was exactly the kind of guy Xander wished he could be, and therefore exactly the right guy for Buffy in his eyes.

Spike outright tells him and still Xander refuses to believe him until he sees Buffy’s expression of shame. Then she tries to explain herself to him as though who she has sex with is in any way Xander’s business or a subject in which he should have a say. And that’s how he feels like, he feels Buffy betrayed his image of her and her sacred duty by allowing Spike to touch her, because she is (should be) too good for Spike, too good for the both of them, otherwise why did he never get a chance with her?

[mirhylor]

yay more fuffy art!! saw the most adorable spuffy art where buffy was sleeping and spike was just watching her. and i was like wow i should fuffy that. except it was the middle of civics and i had nothing but a pencil and a dream. featuring silliness yay!!

[pearlypairings]

Season 6 Buffy and Spike deserves its own thread for me to process lmao.

I have SO many feelings about this!

Of course there are toxic and manipulative elements on both side which is what makes it all very conflicting.

We see Spike upset that she is struggling with station in life reborn, her friends very much unreliable/unsupportive, abandoned by her watcher. He recognizes that she is in a dark place, and being a vampire, doesn't want her to be afraid of the "dark inside her".

And on the opposing end, Buffy sees spike as someone whose not afraid of her confessions, the ugliness she's feeling, the parts she hates about herself. She gets to be free with someone and in her words, "feel something, anything" instead of the horrible numbness she's victim to.

[destiel-wings]

I hope you don't mind me asking, but what are your thoughts on angel x buffy? :)

Hii i don't mind, thank you for asking 😊

So, I used to love bangel sooooo much when i first watched the show. I was 100% into it, (with a crush for Boreanaz too) and i cried so much for them in s2 and when Angel left the show in s3. And I truly, sincerely, unironically hated Spike too (I thought he was a great character but i just loved hating him, you know? Lol). When we saw Spike's dream of kissing Buffy I swear i felt nauseous.

... and then they aired Fool for love.

By the end of that episode I was left in utter existential crisis in front of my tv because i felt my whole world shift. There was a part of me that still liked Angel and Buffy, but there was also this new part that wanted her to be with Spike now.

So anyway, that's when i decided to switch teams and i became team spuffy, and for as much as i had been obsessed with bangel before, it was nothing compared to how deep i was caught into the Buffy and Spike relationship. I never looked back. They were just much more complex and real and compelling. And it made me reevaluate Angel and her relationship with him too. Angel never really knew Buffy, always treated her like a child, and let's be honest--and that's something that hit me only years later when I got older--she was a child when they were together. He was spying on her and falling in love with her when she was just fifteen years old and he was a 240-year-old vampire who had been sired at like 26 years old, and they got together when she was 16/17 and he broke up with her when she turned 18... I don't think that's something the writers did intentionally of course, because (as everything else in buffy) it's just meant to be taken as a metaphor for the ideals and struggles and the intensity of drama of a girl's first love, but it still comes off as icky.

And before anyone comes at me, I know spuffy isn't healthy either, but that's kinda the point and the appeal. First of all, it's fiction and a metaphor, and secondly, it's about two broken people that are supposed to be mortal enemies but are actually two sides of the same coin, so different and yet so much the same, who can understand each other as a whole, light and darkness, in a way that no one else ever could, who yes, hurt each other along the way, but whose love saved them from the deepest darkness, ultimately bringing them into the light.

This is what spuffy is to me, and this is why i think it's not only the superior ship, but one of the best ships of all time (thee best, until i saw destiel, now they're sharing the podium).

So anyway, to get back to your question, the moment i became obsessed with Buffy and Spike (and i have been ever since 2005, lmao, they've been my first real obsession, alongside btvs, until spn and destiel) Angel sort of became the enemy 😅. And I hated him so so so so so much when he appeared in 7x21 and kissed Buffy (pure fanservice, but okay) and brought the medallion that ultimately killed Spike. So i spent years very maturely holding my vendetta against Angel (like, rooting for every demon that fought against him when I watched Angel, lmaoo). In most recent years, I've (sort of) made my peace with the character, after rewatching Angel. I mean he's still the enemy (of course, duh!! Who am i if not eternally petty??) but i appreciate him in his own show.

So i don't ship Angel and Buffy anymore, but I can understand why someone would (as i myself used to), and more importantly, i respect other people's right to ship them.

If we're joking, I'm going to insult Angel and keep saying he's the enemy. But on a mature serious note, I think Buffy and Angel were a great first love (for Buffy), but they were supposed to be just that, the impossible teenage girl's dream of a first love, eternal but doomed to end and break your heart.

I think Angel was much more well paired with Cordelia (which is something I'd never think I'd say), and i found myself shipping them so much when I rewatched the show. It felt so much more mature and profound than what we saw with Buffy and Angel (and that's probably due to the fact that we got slow burn for them - as we did for Buffy and Spike- and could actually see the feelings growing, while Buffy crushed on Angel in the pilot and she was madly in love (as teenagers do) in 0.5 seconds for no apparent reason than the fact that he was hot and mysterious.

So when I say the kiss in btvs 7x21 makes zero sense, I'm not just talking about spuffy, but also about cangel. I feel like both characters parted ways and lived on in their own shows to grow and become their own persons, developing other relationships that were more adult and meaningful, and that kiss was just disrespectful for both (but anyways, it doesn't change anything).

I have so many thoughts about all this honestly, and I hope I haven't gone too much off the tangent with my reply, but i couldn't just give you a simple reply because that would've had to be something like "angel is the enemy and i don't like bangel" but as you can see my thoughts are a little more complex than that 😅

[paarthursass]

we don't give buffy the vampire slayer enough credit for going "the guys from the big bang theory are kinda toxic and misogynistic and i don't think they should be allowed near women" 6 years before the big bang theory would air

[diaryofateenageslayer]

I was rewatching my Buffy DVDs and found the JW commentary. Even though his views on women/feminism tainted this show, he does explain his directing decisions.

If you don't believe the Spuffy fans, at least believe the writers and actors who created their story!

It's the "wait...Bangel was a big deal?" for me.

JW actually admits that Angel reappearing in the last episode and the Bangel kiss was, in fact, "fan service."

Emphasis on the VOCAL MINORITY that leads to the fan service. Something iconic enough (The Bangel kiss) to "give people hope( 😂) that Buffy and Angel might one day work out" - purple

I don't know what was going through that brain of his, but Parker was NOT "the most important relationship of her life." Like sir, where did that come from? - green

The chemistry between both David/Sarah and James/Sarah is insane. However, I like how both relationships have their own distinct chemistry. - yellow

Spike is more on Buffy's level. he understands her, both physically and emotionally, something Angel struggles with. - orange

The relationship is more nuanced, we witnessed the development, and we watched it build from the ground up. We can point out pivotal moments in the relationship. Spike has more dynamic, he's not just "the tall, dark and handsome vampire" that seduces Buffy.

Buffy tells Spike things she wouldn't tell anybody else.

"These two" (Sarah/Buffy & James/Spike), yes, I agree 🤗- blue

Angel is described as an object of desire. Buffy falls in love because of his looks. If Angel wasn't attractive, would she have fallen for him? It's his body that "becomes the object of her gaze."

He really has his looks to offer. "He's tall, dark, and handsome" so he must be a love interest. "Otherwise what else would his purpose be?"

The analysis states that Angel functions as Buffy's "homme fatal," (An ultimately seductive and dangerous man; a womanizer) which gives a nod to Liam's character, his human self.

Joss explains the comparisons between souled and soulless Spike and his behavior/change. Soulless Spike didn't recognize boundaries.

JW still highlights that Spike needs development before he and Buffy become "lovers" again.

The writer of the character and the story states that this man can be redeemed.

[bloomfish]

It's so funny how everyone in Buffy acts like the "good" vampires drinking animal blood is soooo disgusting like bruh u literally eat meat. U eat the flesh. Giles I know you love black pudding don't lie to me

[socratesgirlnextdoor]

look it's imdb but i'm already unwell and it's very likely that this was on the dvd and i missed it but the cut part of the scene in fool for love. YES i'm talking about fool for love again i will never stop it's brilliant-- and that damn flashback scene to when spike and drusilla broke up already haunted me because it's insane but the deleted part? the deleted part where drusilla tells him point blank she wants buffy dead and he's immediately like "you're the one who keeps bringing her up! she's gone, she's on the other side of the planet!" time to unravel! because

oh so she truly dumped him because he wouldn't kill buffy for her. oh my god that's so much juicier

[theshippingnews]

Anya would be a get-rich-quick-scheme TikTok girlie. She's doing that live NPC shit right now

Cordy would be an OOTD fashion influencer on Instagram who just started a TikTok bc her numbers are going down. She's about to have a feminist awakening

Oz has been on tumbr since 2006, reblogging chill music memes and sending nice messages to his friends

Xander would be a reddit incel, unfortunately. We all know this

buffy summers is a mentally ill repressed bisexual who makes little puns about the horrors. she would do numbers on this website.

[destiel-wings]

watching Angel (the series), I feel like is really interesting, specifically in s3 cause I think in some ways it was good but they did Cordelia SO dirty. I feel like there were some aspects where I was like yeah that was totally written by a man e.g. when Angel gives her a necklace after being away cause of Buffy’s death and she’s like it brings out my boobs 🙄.

I feel like there are some scenes that are kinda ironic considering how Joss treated Charisma like when Cordelia was doing that commercial? Like was that a dig at Joss? But also that’s 90s early 2000s writing as well.

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

I don't know if you're watching the show for the first time or not, so I won't give you direct spoilers, but what they did to Cordelia gets so much worse in season 4.

There is one storyline specifically that happens that season that we as a fandom collectively pretend never happened.

And I actually like season 4 (i love the way that it's built, the plot twists, the epic tones of the main villain coming, the way that some characters develop and the main theme/metaphor that relates to the big bad of the season), but what they did to Cordelia will always be one of the greatest faults of the show. And now that all the rumors about Joss are out, we know why that happened too. 😔 That's when Charisma was pregnant and Joss threatened to fire her. And he did.

I mean, I can see the casual misogyny you're mentioning in the first three seasons as partly being due to the 90s/early 2000s writing (definitely a factor), and partly as a sad realistic depiction of what real actresses in the business like Cordelia (or generally women everywhere) had to endure at the time, when they couldn't even speak up. And i think there's a distinction to be made here, because there's two types of misogyny (or any other problematic behavior) that can be shown in media.

The scene where Cordelia is posing in a bikini and the photographer is a complete jerk for example is a harsh depiction of what society used to be (and still is), and so, in my opinion deserves to be in the show, because stuff like that is a slap in the face that should outrage us. Shows nowadays are excessively tiptoeing around real life issues. And i don't think it's helping anyone. I think we should be able to see stuff like that in fiction so we can say "this is horrible. It shouldn't happen in real life," and hopefully we can learn from it and get better as a society. In this sense, it's useful misogyny, because it exists to outrage the viewer and sensitize them to the issue. And there's tons of other examples of this in the show (I'm thinking about Lilah's storyline for example).

And then there's the pointless misogyny. Lines like "it brings out my boobs!" or other examples that i can't think of right now that won't really teach you anything if not make you cringe thinking "a woman would never say something like that", or "this is a disservice to the character for no valid reason" (like what they did to Cordy in season 4). That type of misogyny outrages us, but for different reasons, because it's gratuitous and completely unnecessary, and should be rightfully cut out.

Unfortunately the show does both. It is the product of its time, and that needs to be taken into consideration. In the end, I think the good it did outweighs the bad, and it managed to tell stories that are still strong and powerful today because it never shied away from speaking about human weakness and visceral struggles in a way that's raw. And people can relate to that (generally speaking).

And you're right, it is ironic, Joss became a feminist icon for creating Buffy, a show where strong (and yet human, flawed, imperfect) characters always stole the scene (with a few male characters exceptions)-- and then he created Angel. A different show, more adult, darker, with some noir touches, and a male lead. And I think, the vibe being so different and more focused on a male lead like Angel (who represents an anti-hero version of the knight in shining armor, which is, per se, an anti-feminist trope) the slope was slippery and so some misogyny slipped through. I'm not saying that misogyny was inherent to the basis of this show but... it kinda was. One could even say that Angel is the anti-Buffy (literally, one show being about a frisky young female lead who is a hero pledged to rid the world from evil vampires, and the other one being about a brooding 200+ year old male lead that is a former(?) evil vampire always ready to save a damsel in distress). The cool thing though, is the show itself is aware of that, and brings it out at text level (for example with Spike mocking Angel for it, in one of the very first episodes of season 1). So what I'm saying is... it's complicated. It's a show that uses its female characters to cater to its male characters' arcs sometimes. But it's also a show that gives us great female characters. Strong, powerful, intelligent, human, unapologetic. There's the good and the bad.

Back to Joss Whedon, personally, I can see him putting a lot of his own personal struggles into the show. Like, the theme of Angel season 5 is literally about the heroes trying not to get corrupted by the power, and that's kind of what Joss did. Guess he wasn't as good and righteous as most of his characters in the end.

[spangelmybeloved]

a while ago i made a post about how i do NOT buy into the "buffy only had good sex with spike" thing i've seen in a lot of spuffy fics (and this is coming from someone who enjoys spuffy fic!!!) with something along the lines of "actually buffy had bad sex with Angel who is a rapist and also bad sex with Riley too"

bestie. i. i think. I think you missed the entire point of my post 😂

just to recap... i've already said this but i'll say it again///

Angel is like. 200+ years old. he had 150 years of the kinds of kinky vampire sex that the rest of us can only dream of

also do you think that Darla would have kept Angelus around if he was bad at sex. tell me do you think she would have settled? no, no I dont think she would have. I think she would have booted him out into the street if he was bad at sex

Also Angel managed to tire out Buffy when she was human

Re: Riley. I think that Buffy absolutely did leave his bed plenty satisfied. I dunno what you all saw in WTWTA but I would have gladly swapped places with Buffy. And I'm ace.

Also obligatory "good sex isn't indicative of a good relationship". And "sex happening at all isn't indicative of a good relationship" (once again. Hello from your neighborhood asexual). And furthermore, "sexual performance isn't inactive of if someone is a good person, and 'small dick' insults are body shaming." hitting the btvs fandom with a stick until they Get It.

Anyway maybe read the post before reblogging with unsolicited commentary that is completely contrary to what i just said??

[1x20]

Masculinity in Supernatural is always in the process of being interrogated and therefore cannot be read as fixed the show often deconstructs masculine tropes even as it deploys them’ (p. 157). Dean’s ‘centrifugal evolution’ is his movement away from prevalent mainstream ideas about white working-class masculinity. If Joss Whedon was attempting to ‘create a hero where there’s only been a victim’, as he says in the commentary of the BTVS pilot, then Eric Kripke creates a victim where there is only been a hero, that is, a hero with evident vulnerabilities.

Rosenberg, Susan Cosby. "So Many Chick Flick Moments: Dean Winchester's Centrifugal Evolution." In Gender and Contemporary Horror in Television, eds. Steven Gerrard et al. Emerald Publishing Limited: 2019. 134-5.

[kitkatt0430]

I do wonder sometimes how many fans of BtVS are aware that Passions, the soap opera that Spike and Joyce enjoyed, was a real soap opera.

It's been long enough since both BtVS and Passions aired that fans who got into Buffy after it finished aren't necessarily going to realize that Passions was a real show. And what little commentary we get about it from Spike and Joyce does not even begin to cover how bonkers that soap really was. Timmy was a sentient doll created by an evil witch, there were doors to hell, but Harmony was just your average small town right? (Also one of the characters was a friend of Princess Diana and was visited by her ghost. That's just... the kind of show it was.) It's really no wonder a show set on a hellmouth used it as the soap opera of choice for it's characters.

So while I tend to expect older fans who watched BtVS when it was first airing to be aware - assuming they're from the US anyway, I really have no idea if Passions was aired outside the US - but for the most part I wonder sometimes when I see fandom meta that mentions Passions or it gets brought up in a fanfic... do they know that was a real show?

[probably-hyperfixated]

btvs group rewatch episode 3: witch (aka my thoughts during the episode, this will contain spoilers for the series)

ooo buffy’s mismatched earrings in the first scene

the evolution of witches in buffy is something that genuinely needs to be studied. the contrast between this episodes witch and the vibes of later witches are so different

SO smart for the first episode after the two part pilot to be a non vampire monster of the week. makes good on giles’ line from the end of last episode about all different kinds of creatures coming to/already existing in sunnydale

not even five minutes in and we’ve hit my least favorite part of this episode: the way catherine/amy (and everyone around her) talks about her body. did not age well at all (especially the line at the end about getting fat like it’s the best act of revenge), even if it’s supposed to be commentary on catherine’s warped mindset rather on amy herself

some of my favorite lines of season one in the library scene (slayer/slayerettes, laughing at then hiding from danger)

i love that buddy takes a naked snapple out of the fridge so they don’t have to pay for brand placement

WILLOW (CANONICALLY JEWISH CHARACTER) RESPONDING TO BUFFY SAYING CATHERINE IS N*ZI-LIKE BY SAYING H**L IS GENUINELY INSANE

the takeout with amy and cordelia in the locker room is great (also peak cordelia)

it’s 100% elizabeth anne allen saying the spell for cordelia which is super cool

the themes (like much of season 1) are very heavy handed in this episode, especially all the scenes between joyce and buffy

did anyone actually drive in drivers ed at school?

EYE OF NEWT IS NOT AN ACTUAL NEWT’S EYE. ITS MUSTARD SEED!!

so do you think catherine moved her and amy into this creepy ass house after her and her husband divorced or did they always live in a house with a gargoyle on the gate

buffy’s black with white shoes instead of the white with black shoes is an awesome visual metaphor how she’s on the cusp of fitting in but is just slightly off

first instance of dad!giles let’s GOOOO

the double twist of this episode is a lot of fun! the witch is definitely amy but SURPRISE, it’s not. it’s amy’s mom in her body.

how is catherine!amy the third alternate who got on the team four hours before the game and a flier?

also, why the hell don’t they tie amy!catherine up or put her in a locked room once they start the spell? what did they think would happen when the bodies switched back, she’d just sit and watch?

i love buffy straight up punching catherine in the face lmao

also let’s start a giles getting knocked out in a fight counter: 1

i love how amy’s wardrobe changes now that she’s really her. very clearly comfort over style and very childlike.

and the first dangled thread of season one: catherine in the statue

[mothmans-wedding-photographer]

Mothman's Buffy Rewatch: Season 4, episodes 7 and 8, "The Initiative" and "Pangs"

The Initiative

Buffy failing at getting lunch she's literally me guys <3

Oh my gosh Forrest is awful "matressable"??

Maybe she's Canadian you know what fuck you (<a Canadian)

Dry lip Spike jumpscare

Ominous

Fall fascism

Giles' disappointed face I'm crying

Well Xander wanted something to do

Spike feeding time

Can vampires survive without drinking blood? Like will he just wither and die

Despite all his rage he's just a rat in a cage

"I always worried what would happen when that bitch got some funding" Snsbsjsbis

Buffy is just like me fr (I'm taking a psych class)

Damn

"I like her" sndbdjdjsk

Riley stop bullying her

"Is it raspberry fruit punch?"

Frisbee indoors

Get him Riley!!! Next do that to your friends that also objectify Buffy

They couldn't even give bro a bed

Ouch that's rough

Spike freeing that guy just to throw him to the wolves

Riley shoving the box of weapons under the bed for the second time without noticing I hope this is a running gag

"I've seen honestly faces before. They usually come attached to liars"

"You can fascinate a woman with a piece of cheese" moment

Deserved tbh

Bro said really said "bring it in"

The drug deal stance

"If you hurt her I will beat you to death with a shovel" you should've kept that promise girl at least should have given him a good whack

Immediately opens with school talk

"Cheese?" With that hopeful look on his face

Best fight scene in the whole of BTVS

Their personalities really bounce off each other well

Dingoes ate my baby starts playing

That was thoughtful of him

Area 51 core

Buffy with a gun?

Riley you're so annoyingggg

THE RADIO IM CRYING

There's a girl in the background who kind of looks like Tara

He couldn't kill her I'm crying 😭😭

Willow has such low self esteem she feels upset that Spike wouldn't bite her

SNSBEBEJJE he's hyping her up

Get lamp'd idiot

Willow imitating Foxy from FNAF with that jump

Yeah Buffy!!!

Pangs

Buffy jumpscare

IS THAT FUCKING ANGEL GET OUT OF HERE!!!

Well I appreciate the commentary on how Columbus Day and Thanksgiving (at least the origins) is fucked up. More than I expected tbh

Hell yeah secret underground cavern

"It's a yam sham!"

Spike is NOT looking good

I don't know if the face paint will help hide from vampires

Oh ouchie her neck

Willow's got all the ear knowledge

"Indian" there it is

Honestly if Angel grabbed my face i would also assume he was Angelus again

"All this leaving for her own good garbage, because that's what it is" Get his ass Willow I love when she tells off Buffy's love interests

Honestly I just feel bad for Harmony she keeps getting used by Spike. Like at the same time she is incredibly naive (and also horrible in her own right) but like idk she's being treated so badly

Hell yeah!!! Get him Harmony

Okay yeah he has a point I'd want revenge too but the people now don't deserve to die for stuff they have mo control over

THE CROWS?? HE TURNS INTO A BUNCH OF CROWS?? THE CGI??

Girl you said Indian earlier

"You said you were gonna get fresh ones" "atrocities?"

I'm glad that BTVS probably brought some of these events to the public eye. They didn't really teach about the horrors the European settlers put the Indigenous people through so it's good they talked about it in the show. Though I don't think they did it perfectly obviously

"I think he's lost his edge" crying

Xander's penis got diseases from the Chumash Tribe 😔

Buffy mixing harder

Xander, Anya is tight there 😭😭

SPIKE

Bro is so pathetic

I think they should have let the spirits kill some racists. As a treat

Spike desperate for that brandy

SPIKE GETS SHOT

"I'm not evil again why does everyone think that"

Spike cosplaying a pincushion

"WHY WON'T YOU DIE!!"

I do like how all throughout this episode, Buffy was desperate for Thanksgiving with her found family. She does love them a lot and her own family is... not great, her life is turbulent, and she just wants a good supper with the people closest to her

THE BEAR

"A bear! You made a bear!" "I didn't mean too!"

"That's for giving me syphilis!"

The way she stabbed the bear reminds me of the ending of Coyote Moon, the non-canon Buffy book that also has shapeshifters. She stabs the undead shape-shifting bear to death with a steak knife

Willow I don't think you can blame yourself, you were fighting for your life

WHYS SPIKE LOOKIJG AT THE CAMERA