#but byler has multiple times

[byersfanclub]

can i ask smth and feel free to correct me but when have el and mike ever shared a look for so long and then proceed to look at each others lips before tearing their gazes away from one another

[cluelessbees]

I DONT SEE ANYONE TALK ABOUT HOW MIKE DEADASS YELLS TO UNKNOWN HERO AGENT MAN ‘STAIRS STAIRS’ TO WARN HIM ABOUT THE SOLDIERS COMING FROM DOWNSTAIRS LIKE-

IF HE DIDNT SAY ANYTHING THEY WOULDVE DIED-

[obsessionatthemoment]

So funny thing about me, I first saw Stranger Things in a residential treatment center. I kept saying to other residents "I think Mike and Will would be so good together." Or "I think they like each other." Everyone would be like "What!? No!" Because of this, I went for so long thinking I was the only one who saw their chemistry. I didn't even know they had a ship name.

I am so glad I actually have a community that I can talk about them with. It's good to know that I am not crazy for seeing it.

Side note: When season 4 came out I was still there, and I said to them "See, Will is in love with Mike." and they said, "We never said he wasn't."

[jonathanbyersphd]

Now listen I love a good hehehaha Jonathan hates Mike joke as much as the next person but some of y'all are taking it a bit too seriously

[dinitride-art]

“Now I just want you to watch.”

El saw what Henry did to everyone in the lab. She didn’t die, but she had to watch it happen.

Max saw Billy die in front of her. She wasn’t the one in danger, but El was. And she watched her abusive stepbrother die in front of her.

Dustin saw Eddie die. He didn’t go back towards the bats. The bats didn’t hurt him. But he watched Eddie die in his arms.

Hopper didn’t die because of his exposure to the chemicals he was mixing. He watched his daughter die in a hospital bed.

Lucas wasn’t being targeted by Vecna. He wasn’t the one floating in the air, his bones weren’t snapping. But Max’s were. And he watched it happen.

Nancy wasn’t the one who died in the Upside Down, alone in Steve Harrington’s pool. That was her best friend, and Nancy had to watch it all go down. Had to see everyone unfold.

Mike didn’t get possessed. Or kidnapped. Or burst into particles. Mike didn’t die. Or almost die. He watched Will screaming like he was being burned alive. He watched his best friend nearly die and he watched as every adult around him was unable to help him. He watched Will bike away from his house before he disappeared. He heard his mom talking to Joyce the next day. He heard Will on the radio. He saw Will’s body in the water. He heard Bob die. He saw El die. He saw Will dead. He watched a man get shot trying to protect him, Will and Jonathan. He watched him die while putting pressure on the wound.

Mike was shot at.

He was told that he was wrong for trusting El. That Will wasn’t alive.

He had to run for his life because his friend’s body was taken by a being from another dimension that sent creatures to kill him and everyone around him.

He was knocked out by Max’s possessed brother.

He was shot at again in the desert, trying to rescue El who was taken by the government.

He’s been bullied his entire life.

And he did almost die.

Mike jumped off a cliff.

Dustin and El had to watch.

[your-stranger-halfblood-things]

So we know how the show has bad writing and they never bring up past trauma in newer seasons? In season four, they never once mentioned that Steve and Robin were in a Russian layer and got tortured, leading to almost death for Steve. And I bet in season five, they will not mention how Hopper went through hell in a Russian camp to be brought back. And they're not gonna mention how Will got exorcized, which was probably more traumatic than Vecna actually being part of him. And they're not going to mention how Mike jumped off a cliff, or Eddie's death, or El's mother's trauma. It's just bad writing because in real life trauma comes up all the time.

But whatever, I just need Will to find out Mike jumped off a cliff, and Mike to find out Will literally died in the Upside Down before Hopper brought him back. That's all I'm asking for- some Byler trauma talking/crying/hugging/kissing/rambling about 'I love yous'

[4-lemurs-in-a-trench-coat]

I’ve licked a salt lamp once before

It doesn’t taste like salt I don’t recommend

[chuchayucca]

It is perfectly fine to like a non-canon ship and believe it’s better than the main canon ship for no reason but don’t be that fan who writes points explaining why the main ship is terrible and their non-canon one is better, when most of the reasons can be applied to your non-canon ship as well and it’s just a disguise for your hatred of the canon ship. 

[madwheelerz]

El walks around with a blue bracelet on her left hand where the majority of the cast, save for a handful, has a watch.

[maddy-ferguson]

me when i'm a will byler and a mike byler

[kidovna]

I wanted to ask you- do you really think that Mike and will could end up together in season 5? Like realistically? I personally wish for nothing more but I truly can’t imagine how they would do it with the other stuff happening around them. At best I can only think of Mike and eleven separating and if neither of them will die, I can imagine that they will leave an open ending for the viewers to interpret if Mike had feelings for will as well. What do you think could happen?

I really do think that they can end up together. When has the supernatural plot ever stopped jancy, jopper, lumax, mileven and stancy from happening and why couldn’t it be a possibility for byler?

I think season 4 and the first shadow covered both Henry and El’s backstories. We’ve gotten confirmation multiple times that season 5 covers Will’s backstory, and Mike is a big part of his life. Other than resolving the conflicts from season 4, giving us more information about the mind flayer /UD, and providing context for will’s involvement in the plot, there’s nothing major (like the Russia plot) left to establish in season 5. Everyone is already in Hawkins and know Vecna’s motives.

[Marvel spoilers…?] Remember how avengers infinity war killed half the universe at the end of the movie and then a) invented time travel, b) brought them all back and c) killed the bad guy all within 3 hours in the sequel? I think byler happening in the 10+ hours of season 5 wouldn’t be too much of a stretch. They’ve already known each other for 10 years and are semi-canon.

Sure, there’s always a possibility that they could leave byler open ended but why would they do that if they wanted every character to have their perfect happy ending?

[teambyler]

Stranger Things has made the General Audience care too much for Will to deny a Byler ending

In Season 1, Will is kidnapped, survives a week without food or shelter in a nightmare dimension, and is implanted by a demon. He's been abused by his dad and bullied his whole life. Yet once he orients himself the FIRST thing he does is see Jonathan's hand and ask if he's okay:

In Season 2, he avoids telling everyone what's tormenting him because he doesn't want to worry them and he thinks he'd be misunderstood and babied. (He only tells Mike.) He gets possessed, has the guilt of causing people's deaths, and multiple times feels the pain of being burnt alive:

In Season 3, his friends aren't interested in D&D. Mike tells him something homophobic and cruel. Will realizes he's gay and closeted and has had his innocence stolen from him forever. He destroys Castle Byers full of sorrow and self-hate:

In Season 4, he's in love with his best friend and lives with the pain that Mike is dating his sister. STILL, he unconditionally helps Mike in the relationship, even if it denies himself a chance to be with him. He gives El the credit for the painting HE made for HIM:

For 4 seasons, the show has made people care for Will as he suffers alone. What logically happens in Season 5 is that he stops suffering and is no longer alone.

In Season 5, the Duffer Brothers have left an open plot point where MIke's love confession to El was based on a lie. He felt romantic love for the first time because WILL confessed his love for HIM. (See my blog for more on that!)

The seeds for a "Byler twist" are all there. The main factor against a Byler endgame is a need to cater to the General Audience who might not be ready for a gay relationship between two main characters.

But not only would denying Byler be (by far) the worst instance of queerbaiting in media history, where Will's love for Mike is simply a device to prop up a straight relationship...

... It also would feel particularly CRUEL to Will. For 4 seasons, the Duffer Brothers have made sure the GENERAL AUDIENCE wants him to have a happy ending. And they have made clear that Will wants to be with Mike so much.

Nearly every other main character in ST has had their love interest. There is no main cast addition to s5, so there is no "other boy." If Byler happens, then the people who'd complain would not only want the gay boy, but WILL of all people (how dare you!), to be the only main character to end up alone. He is America's Gay Adopted Son. The anti-Bylers would be isolated.

The Duffer brothers have set up the GA to cheer for Will pairing with the boy he loves. It would be a home run against homophobia.

Will told Mike he is the heart of the party. But for the GA, Will has been the heart of the show since the beginning. (And if Mike leads the party in s5, it's because Will's heart is on his shield.)

"Will really takes center stage again in [season] 5," Ross Duffer told Variety. "This emotional arc for him is what we feel is going to hopefully tie the whole series together."

The Duffers have said s4 was their Empire Strikes Back ending. Which makes s5 the show's triumphant Return of the Jedi.

Will will get his happy ending. It's all there!

-teambyler

[will80sbyers]

What makes you believe that byler is real? I ship Mileven personally, but I'm trying to understand byler shippers' logic, because a lot of the time it feels like it makes no sense.

I personally think there are some scenes in the show and there are some choices that the writers made that are telling us that the plot of the show is going towards Will getting a "pay off", in terms of writing, at the end of the show and Mike and El finding out they are better as friends instead and Mike discovering he has romantic feelings for Will!

The writers have emphasized Will's sadness in relation to Mike and El as a couple both thematically and visually, in the writing & filming of the show there are too many scenes like this especially in season 3 and 4 they have made it clear that he will never be happy if Mike and El are the endgame relationship, even during Mike's love monologue after he supposedly decided that he was ok with El having his own feelings for Mike by saying that the painting was a thoughtful gift from El when it wasn't... They put a shot of Will's sad face in the middle of the monologue, and also he was framed behind Mike when he said "I love you" which in film is a EXTREMELY weird choice unless it means something more is going on that should make us not want El and Mike's relationship to work - the writers have been sabotaging the emotional connection of the fans with mileven by doing this and I don't think that professional filmmakers don't know that, I think it's on purpose!

The writers have shown Mike and Will as having a deeper relationship than all the other relationships Mike has, putting him in the same category of El as one of his possible love interests in the plot, they have multiple scenes bonding in a tender way than Mike has with any other of his friends, they happen in private usually or in emotionally charged moments that they film to make you as a viewer feel like they are in private and show how they have this connection that's more than just friendship

The writers have wrote in the show since season 1 MANY parallels between Mike and Will and other official couples (Mileven too!!!) that are, in my opinion, hinting at them ending up together at the end of the show

You can find the parallels here

The writers have continously shown El and Mike to have some kind of problem in their relationship and made El decide to leave Mike behind multiple times even if to save his life because she loves him, the writers have been showing us how Mike is not her PLOT priority and instead they have put having a romantic relationship with Mike as Will's deepest desire since season 3

The writers are building up El's character to have a coming of age that has recurrent themes of her finding herself without the influence of others around her, her becoming completely free from any kind of influence, and Mike has been represented as having too many internal fears to overcome at the moment about their relationship, especially with the love monologue at the end of season 4, he has beliefs about himself as a person that clash with El's character arc about not having to feel influenced in any way, the end of the show for El should be her having complete freedom in all aspects of her life because of the circumstances of her upbringing... Not saying that Mike is influencing her in a bad way necessarily, I think they both love each other a lot but having a relationship with someone that is that much insecure about his role in your life because you have powers will always be a type of influence

The writers have shown Mike and El as not being a team at the same level by separating them constantly after s1, instead they have shown the other couples that work as working together in the supernatural plot (Jancy, Jopper, Lumax, Byler)

The writers have paralleled Mike and El's relationship to all the ships that are not working for some reasons/are not endgame and have more infatuation than a real "true love" kind of relationship (Steve x Nancy, Karen X Ted, Bob x Joyce)

The writers have wrote in multiple scenes of Mike acting awkward with Will (Mike!!! Not Will) or them having coded conversations about how much they care for each other that have no sense to exist unless there is a pay off at the end

The writers have presented El, Mike and Will as being in a love triangle and have been framing them in a love triangle composition in the framing of multiple scenes, with Mike at the centre

When during season 4 the writers talked about all the movies that have inspired season 4 and 5 they have put multiple movies with love triangles that are almost identical to the situation between Mike, El and Will

Will and Mike have multiple fight scenes that are scenes you give to two possible love interests usually, the way the fight happen is written as two lovers having emotional fights instead of as how you would write two friends fighting

The writers wrote in the show a precise parallel in all the scenes of Vickie and Robin... between them and Will and Mike, paralleling Mike to Vickie specifically... who is a canon bisexual character and even paralleling Steve and Jonathan in that context as observers of the couples!

The directors filmed their scenes how you would film romantic scenes in stuff like Bridgerton or a romcom lol

The whole painting scene was Will making Mike feel so loved that he felt comfortable being vulnerable with El, but this means he was still not comfortable on his own relationship with her, he didn't feel safe enough to open up on his own and needed that talk and needed to believe all of those ideas about him being the heart came from Eleven so that he made the jump and told her how he felt instead of being selfishly silent on it because he was too afraid of her possibly leaving him one day... When you are really deeply in love with someone in the context of movies the characters don't let those type of fears influence them and if what gives him courage is the feelings of another character in the love triangle it means he's the right person for the character

( idk if you saw gossip girl but the was a love triangle situation between Blair, Dan and another character where Dan made Blair believe the other character felt some type of way towards her, she understood that she loved Dan because of this act because she wanted those words to be from him and not from the other guy... The whole painting lie is that same trope)

The writers are obsessed with IT from Stephen King and there are clear parallels with it in the show, the whole plot of s4 about the painting is a reprise of the plot between the romantic relationship of Bev and Ben in IT (with the postcard and the poem) Beverly is supposed to be Mike, Ben is Will and Bill is El.... Mike and El share a kiss at the end of season 3 that is supposed to parallel a kiss between Bill and Bev (they did love each other and liked each other but are not endgame)

Both Will and Mike are queercoded multiple times during the seasons

There are WAYYYY more reasons but this post is becoming too long so I'll leave it as this lol

You should rewatch the show and imagine if Will was a girl, I think many people would be seeing what I'm talking about way more and take it as a sign that Mike is going to choose "Willow" and see how Will is the better love interest for him...

Maybe it's all just queerbaiting, who knows, but at the moment I believe this is way too much for it to be queerbait!

I personally think Mike is bisexual

Masterpost about it here

and has feelings for both of them, but his feelings for El have always been a "puppy love" type that is growing to become more platonic than romantic with time, and I think he's a best match with Will, I think Will is able to make him be the best he can be, he's capable of making Mike feel worthy in a very natural way unlike the relationship with El does at the moment!

In my fixed post in the blog you can find all these things in more detail if you're interested!!

Thank you if you read all of this, regardless of what I believe I think everybody should be free to ship what ship they like best!! 😊

[love-byers]

for 2 years i've been wondering what the connection is between the byler scene and the max scene. like they didn't seem similar at all, but after reading this i realized something.

earlier today i was thinking about the track "Letter to Willy" and wondering why it sounded so familiar. after some listening im 100% sure it's because "Letter to Willy" is a version of "Eulogy", a song from the s2 soundtrack. I'm 100,000% sure and i painstakingly edited this to make it clear to anyone listening

"Eulogy" plays whenever the scene is related to death, more specifically a character who has died. hence the name. a eulogy is a speech written to honor someone who recently died, often times read at their funeral. which is interesting, because the first time we hear "Eulogy", it's not an actual eulogy. so clearly this has a deeper meaning.

here's are all the times the track has played, as far as i'm aware

season 2

2×01 nancy cries about barb in the bathroom

2×01 mike puts his toys in the donation box and remembers el, who is believed to be dead

2×03 hopper shows el the cabin for the first time

2×08 hopper sits with joyce after bobs death

2×08 mike tells the group about how bob founded the av club

season 3

3×01 joyce has a flashback of bob

season 4

4×03 mike and el fight

clearly there is a pattern here. (and for the hopper and el one, if you watch the scene there are multiple references to dead characters. hopper mentions his grandpa, and hides a box of sara's things right before the song plays. this could also be representative of the death of el's old life.)

"This is your new home."

"Home."

so if "Letter to Willy" is 100% directly connected to "Eulogy", what does that mean?

(i'm not sure if "Letter to Willy" plays in more than those 2 scenes, but i'm pretty sure it's just the two so i'll proceed on that)

so we can assume the two scenes are related to someone or something that has died. obviously, max is reading her letter to billy at his gravestone. unknown hero agent man is dead and there is shared imagery of gravestones, but mike and will aren't talking about that when the song plays. they're talking about mikes fight with el, again.

mike and el's fight. the scene that "Eulogy", aka the theme for DEATH, plays in.

mike and el's relationship died during that fight. even mike knows it, he keeps trying to say it in different ways. "A fight you can't come back from." go back and watch the scene, and look at el's face when mike says "you're being ridiculous" she is so so done with him. mike is right, this is a fight they can't come back from.

i also think "Letter to Willy" could be implying that the truth of the situation is being hidden. max later admits that vecna was right, she wanted billy to die and that is a source of her guilt. in the letter she implied she had just frozen and wishes she had done something, but that wasn't the whole truth. it was partly on purpose because billy made her life a living hell.

and with byler...i mean do i even need to say it? mike isn't not telling the truth, but he's not saying the whole truth either. he dances around the reason he didn't say what eleven wanted him to say, he won't even say what that thing is. and if you ask me, a byler truther, this is also indicative of mike and will not outright saying their feelings for each other because they're both closeted.

"Eulogy" plays when mike and el's relationship dies.

"Letter to Willy" plays when mike and will are talking about the death of the relationship.

[you-were-alone-too]

for any bylers currently panicking over the apparent leak that will is getting a love interest this season, here's a list of reasons why it has to be mike (as someone with common sense and also someone who has witnessed firsthand the filming/writing process of this show since the end of season 2):

for all previous seasons, new characters were announced at the start of each season even before filming began. this has been true even for the most insignificant of new recurring characters added to the show. we also received character descriptions early on for these characters as well. even characters that were eventually scrapped (like a neighborly old lady that was supposed to give advice to the party in s3) had descriptions announced.

again, no confirmed casting call for a boy around will's age has been found, nor has an actor that might fit the role of will's love interest been spotted on set. while the duffers have been one of the primary sources for the set photos we've received, much of them have also been obtained through leaks, so again, even if they were trying to keep this love interest a secret, it would be nearly impossible with the amount of leakers out there.

this leak about will having a confirmed love interest only came out now as they're filming episode 5. notice that the leak did not say "NEW love interest" either. it is extremely unlikely that they suddenly wrote in an entirely new character when we know the duffers have nearly finished all of the scripts. they plan out each season in big detail on storyboards before writing the scripts, so again, it would be extremely unlikely for them to add in a new character to serve as a love interest for even the most minor character, let alone for them to make such a last-minute decision for WILL.

will is the focus of season 5, which has been confirmed multiple times by the duffers, shawn levy, and noah. they said his emotional arc is one that they hope will tie the show together. it's hard to imagine this succeeding if they pair will with some random side character, especially since one of will's main plot lines has been him coming to terms with and accepting his sexuality, along with finding love after claiming that he would never do so.

in conclusion, will's love interest isn't a new character. it is, in fact, the menace we lovingly know as michael wheeler. and considering that we got this leak now as they're filming episode 5, that means that the show will most likely tip its hand toward byler endgame by this point if it's obvious enough to now be classified as a "filming leak"

[misterfibbly]

If Mileven is supposedly endgame, then why do we get ZERO moments from them together this season?

There are absolutely no scenes of them together, just them alone, having a moment or being couple-y in a way that doesn’t have either of them faking or lying to each other.

The first thing we see with both of them is El writing a letter to Mike, telling him about her life in Lenora, lying to him about it (what a great way to start off the season!! /s). Okay, but let’s give El the benefit of the doubt, maybe she’ll tell Mike as soon as they see each other, right?

Wrong.

Now, let’s get back to my original point about how they don’t have any scenes alone.

There’s a couple of scenes where we get them greeting each other, kissing (notice how Mike’s wearing sunglasses. Who’s to say he doesn’t have his eyes open under those? It certainly wouldn’t be the first time).

Also I’m not sure if it’s just me who sees this, but why does it seem like they’re trying to be as far away from each other as possible during that kiss?? Like lean into it a little if you really want it to seem like you like each other.

Oh look! We immediately see Jonathan in Will in the background (and Argyle in some frames) in a scene that’s supposedly a romantic reunion between Mike and El.

Mike is literally being DRAGGED right now, if he’s the one who got out of the car first, shouldn’t he be walking a bit more in the front? Oh and, of course, Will is in this scene too.

Will standing next to them as El lies to Mike about her friends. Will trailing behind them as they skate. Will eating with them. Will, Will, Will.

But wait — there actually is one scene where Mike and El are alone.

The fight! The only scene with just them, and the only scene where they show strong emotions for each other. Except it’s just El being angry at Mike, which she has every right to be, and she’s sad too. Mike seems distressed but he’s not nearly as upset as she is, and he’s showing absolutely no remorse either.

Even in the “love confession” scene, Will right there, and he’s the one who tells Mike to say “I love you” earlier in the van, Mike didn’t come to this conclusion himself, something he would have done if he really meant it and wanted to say it.

How the other couples are different

Jopper - Joyce spent the whole season looking for Hopper, Hopper spent the whole season missing Joyce and hoping she’s okay. Their reunion had emotional music playing they hugged for a long time and they kissed eventually too. The look in their eyes alone showed how much they care about each other.

Lumax - even though they were broken up for basically the whole season, they never stopped caring for each other and being there for each other. Lucas made sure Max was okay and continued to protect her. Max started to let Lucas back into her life and expressed that she needs him.

Even Jancy - they were separated for the whole season but we still got some lighthearted moments between them. They ranted to their friends about each other, and their meeting at the end was genuine and full of love.

Meanwhile, Byler…

They fought, too.

But they quickly made up.

I would add more pictures if I could, but my point is, Byler spent the whole season rebuilding their relationship. Mileven spent the whole season ignoring their issues. Byler had multiple heart to hearts, they continued to listen and understand each other, they worked together “as a team”.