#byler doubt??? never met her

[doriandrifting]

I’m so normal about them…anyway seventh tattoo in the books with the wizard hat 😌

heart of hearts- the innermost part of someone’s heart where their truth/secrets are held; who someone is behind their mask/armor

enough for the wise-the idea that something can be understood without any need for explanation; a hint is enough to make sense of the truth

[henrysglock]

I love how hentty/creelby in TFS is just like “AU where the flaying happened to mileven in season 2 instead of byler”.

Henry physically avoids kissing her for as long as he can. And I mean that literally. He ducks away and scrambles backwards until the theater troupe literally corners him into it. When he realizes he doesn’t have a choice, he just kind of stands there doing his little nervous hand movements while Patty kisses him.

It’s exactly like this, but if Mike was more openly nervous/uncomfortable:

And it’s insane to me that TFS is the blueprint for a rescue failure re: the Shadow. Patty trying to save Henry from the Shadow in Act 1 is like splicing the 4.09 monologue into the shed scene from Season 2. Patty tells Henry she loves him and he doesn’t say it back. Straight up. If she hadn’t gone “you have to say it back”, he wouldn’t have!

And I’m in no way blaming Patty, but part of me wonders if, like for El, that romance stuff and the I-love-yous were a distraction that, while well intended, caused the situation to spiral further than it needed to. Henry was already fighting the Shadow on his own/of his own accord. He didn’t need to worry about saying it at that point. Will’s worked so well because everyone was flooding him with love without any expectation of a response, and I definitely think that’s the more effective strategy.

Later on, when the accident happens in DOTM, there’s a bit where Brenner is talking about how Henry’s a monster/US Govt. property, and Patty turns to Henry and goes “what are you?”, and that’s the moment when Henry loses whatever grip he had left on the Shadow.

It was very much pulling on the scene from El’s bedroom in 4.09. The “the way you looked at me…you’re scared of me” one that makes it hard for El to fight Vecna later because she feels alone/unsupported.

Truth is? Patty was scared of Henry. For the entirety of Act 2, she’s scared of him (and she’s within her rights to be, despite Henry constantly reassuring her he’d never hurt her). She cares for him, no doubt, but it’s that fear and lack of faith that makes Henry realize he’s truly alone.

And that takes me right back to Joyce’s 4th wall break in Act 1, where she looks directly at the audience and says “that’s the central question of this play: can love defeat fear?”

Not here, it didn’t. It could have, had the faith been stronger, but it wasn’t. It was entirely on Patty’s shoulders to save Henry, a boy she just met, with no powers but love, “love” that didn’t even have time to really develop from infatuation into real dedication. It was destined to fail because there’s no way she was going to be able to tackle that problem on her own, nor should she be expected to given the circumstances (hence why Henry keeps telling her to run away instead). So it didn’t work, and Henry was lost to the Shadow and then again to Brenner.

It’s like I’ve said a million times: the only reason Will survived ST2 was because of the unwavering love of his family and friends. There was never any question for him. Henry needed the full, unwavering support of his family and friends, and he just didn’t have that.

[will80sbyers]

question for the bylers!

I'm curious, do you think Mike's parents know about El?

I personally think they know ABOUT her but they never met her officially and Mike never brought her home to introduce her to the family, I think they know about her because Karen was listening to the phonecall and El called the Wheelers without any problem in season 3 and also Ted made that comment about Mike going to California to his sweetiepie ( maybe he was talking about Will but it seems kinda unlikely to me even if it would be hilarious tbh ) and also because Mike would have received many letters all the past months from El and I doubt he could have kept them all secret

so I think they know Mike has a girlfriend, he probably told them she's called Jane and was Hopper's adoptive daughter that now lives with Joyce and then he refused to talk about her outside of the times he has to ask them to pay for the plane tickets lmao

[isitisitearlymichael]

Taking Byler out of the equation for a moment…

Mike’s monologue fell really flat for me because the show has barely allowed us to watch Mike and El interact properly. Most of their interaction at the start of season 4 is blighted by the fact that El was hiding under a facade, and their last interaction before they were separated was an argument about that fact.

Before this, they’d been separated for around 6 months, had a unclear relationship for 3 months prior to that (especially considering how awkward they were when parting), and had only dated since the previous Christmas.

So if we were supposed to believe everything Mike was saying about the way he felt, I just wasn’t buying it. Saying things like “I’ve never felt this way about anyone before” etc just made him look so young and naive, which he probably is.

It’s not that I doubt that he cares about her. Of course he does. He really wants to protect her, and he thinks she’s amazing. He’s never met anyone like her before, and he’ll never meet anyone like her again. But that doesn’t mean their relationship is as deep as the monologue tries to infer.

Meanwhile, the relationship we do actually get to see develop, even if the characters are pushed aside somewhat, is Mike’s friendship with Will. And the Mike we see in those scenes is a Mike we never get to see with El. He actually opens up to him, trusts him with his insecurities and is so comfortable in his presence. This is something we’ve seen since their bond was focused on in season 2.

Even when Mike hurts Will, even when he doesn’t even understand how, he takes no time to take the full blame and apologise. Because he knows he needs Will. He can’t lose him.

And when you have a character repeatedly saying he “can’t lose” his girlfriend, to be taken in a way that he loves her, then talk about how feeling like he “lost” Will hurt him - we’re not supposed to start seeing what’s actually going on here?

But truth be told, Mike has played his part in his relationship with El. The missing part of the puzzle has been El’s thoughts and feelings. There has obviously been issues with her ability to express herself previously, but the girl we saw in season 4 was someone who can talk very well now. So supposedly having her feelings for Mike expressed through Will’s was actually really frustrating, if they really want the couple to actually be endgame.

They can’t just finish the season with her clearly distancing herself and having barely spoken to him for two days, and expect the audience to also feel encouraged that the monologue solved everything. In fact, having Mike and El’s big romantic moment be linked to the near-death of her best friend just screamed cursed anyway.

So I honestly don’t understand how anyone could be satisfied with taking what we got at face value and accepting it as the way forward.

From what I’ve seen, a lot of the audience aren’t buying it, but many of them just haven’t picked up or accepted Byler as the alternative yet.

[tooloudamind]

I’m probably repeating something that has been said on here a gazillion times, but I’m writing a Byler-centric (also possibly, VERY slow burn Elumax?), post-ST4 speculative fic now and so I’ve been thinking about a few things…

Why do I feel like it’s more likely that El is the one who never loved Mike romantically in the first place? El had only been out of the lab for a week and had only just learnt what a friend was, you really expect me to believe she developed a romantic crush on Mike when there was arguably so much more competing for her attention? It is possible that she may have developed a crush on Mike later on, but I’m doubtful even about that.

Mike undoubtedly means a lot to El. Mike was kind towards El, and her first friend. He called her pretty when she was mourning her lost girlhood. Till S3, Mike was someone she could cling to when everything else was unsteady and she was in dire need of reassurance; and El grows to become very dependent on this, hence her despair when she thinks Mike doesn’t love her anymore. Mike is her only tie to normalcy when she’s struggling with it in every other aspect of her life (In S4, Mike’s not the only one trying to be normal.) But none of this is an indicator of romantic love, or something that only romantic love can give you.

Comphet can absolutely warp your worldview. I used to believe I had crushes on boys when I was absolutely not attracted towards them. The obsession, the need for validation from them (the validation of being liked by a boy)— this was very much real. El may have liked kissing Mike, but that may more have been a matter of liking the act of kissing and not so much the person she does it with. She may have obsessed over spending time with Mike when they first started dating, but notice how that goes out of the window as soon as she makes another friend in Max.

El has very complicated feelings for Mike, that’s for certain. But she may not love him romantically as she thinks she does.

On the contrary, it is quite possible that Mike once had a crush on El. She’s pretty! She has superpowers! She’ll help them find Will! Most of all, his friends think El is someone he should be crushing on and El does seem to like him back, so what’s there to lose? But a middle school crush is usually no grounds for a healthy, sustainable relationship; especially not one as fickle as Mike’s where he hadn’t even thought of El romantically until his friends goaded him into it. Mike and El don’t even have the equivalent of Max and Lucas’ “I like talking to you” exchange.

Crushes fade. Mike doesn’t like El like that anymore but doesn’t know how to exit a relationship that has long run its course. Was Mike always in love with Will? One can’t really tell— not even Mike himself. Maybe he wasn’t in love with Will from the moment they met on the swingsets. But it’s undeniable that Mike loves Will and cares intensely for him. He puts Will above all of his other friends, he cherishes their bond like he does with no one else.

Also, admiration is a key part of romantic attraction. Mike’s only talking point about El is that she has superpowers, and El herself has never vocalised why she likes Mike. Meanwhile, we know that Mike deeply admires Will (his speech in the first season about Will’s bravery in the D&D campaign, his belief in Will’s ability to fight back the Mind Flayer, his treasury of Will’s art) And Will, of course, has made an entire painting and speech on his admiration for Mike.

And in such a friendship (Will and Mike’s friendship) are there the ingredients for romance to creep up on them both.

But if only Mike realised.

[strangertheories]

I support byler and occasionally make posts about it, so I'd never say this on main but I think the writers could not manage to utilize byler well if going for byler was their intention. I think they should have given byler more personal scenes together that did not involve el in the discussion in some way. Because the truth is whenever they had a discussion, it was related to el some way or other instead of it being personally about them.

like even the apologizing scene has mike saying that he was worrying too much about el and that he thought he lost will's friendship because of his worrying about el... another scene has mike worrying about el leaving and reading el's note, and will reassuring him that mike will get the chance to tell el how he feels. the car scene is about mike worrying about el (i know some people think that mike was thinking about something else there but it is clear to me that he was worrying about el). the van scene-- mike says that he is worried that el will leave him bc he is some random nerd, etc.

I get that they do not only talk about el in those convos but it still revolves around her or at the very least, it includes her and that those convos are not actually about mike and will's bond tbh.

I think the writers should and could have given mike and will more personal convos, like talking about their hobbies, just having some fun or mentioning their lives OR in general anything that is not related to el in some way.

I'm criticizing this bc that's one of the most common stuff other people also notice whether it be mlvns or GA. That's why they think Mike spent the season thinking about El and he talks about El all the time and GA thinks mike is also just there to be for El, etc.

Before I begin, so no one gets annoyed, this is not a Byler doubt post but rather a "how should they handle Mike" post. But yeah anon, I agree, I think if they're intending Byler to be canon they could've handled it a lot differently. HOWEVER, I do think that S2 was very good for this as it really developed Mike and Will's relationship and if they pulled something similar to that for S5, I'd be very happy. I don't really mind if Byler is canon or not because I have no expectations that it will be (not saying no one else should, nobody come after me please), but at the very least, they need to put more focus on Mike and Will's relationship.

If Byler isn't canon then Mike as a character is heavily defined in relation to other people and particularly Eleven so I think fleshing him out and giving him dramas not revolving around her would be good anyways. I think S4 handled it well for the most part even if there were individual decisions I didn't like in particular the comment about meeting El being the best day (did the writers forget why he met her?) and him not noticing Will crying. Both decisions felt a bit out of character for me because whilst Mike is wrapped up in his own stuff, he cares a lot about Will. He noticed Will was particularly quiet in S2 when none of his friends did and he was the one to talk to him when he was mind flayed.

Basically, I just think that Mike needs a heavier focus on his internal struggles and to remind the audience that he's incredibly caring and empathetic. I think that's why the "heart" thing fell a bit flat, if they said that about S1 or S2 Mike, everyone would agree however because Mike has been so focused on Eleven rather than the party, it came off as disingenuous. You don't even need Byler canon to fix that even if it would help because they've established his character but he's become more of a prop in a love triangle than a person to a lot of fans.

TL;DR they need to establish Mike more independently in S5 but I also think they should've shown more of that in S3 and S4 as well regardless of shipping. Thanks for the ask and I'm glad you were comfortable sharing this, I know saying anything against Byler can be scary but it's surprising how welcoming fans can be except a couple of toxic fans. (Nobody tell me as a gotcha Mlvn fans can be toxic too, that's happened before and I'm aware, look at my ask box 💀)

[gawdilykeu]

VERY LONG BYLER VS MILEVEN RANT/ESSAY BUT NOT, MY ENDLESS THOUGHTS ON THE LOVE TRIANGLE IG

Table of contents thing cause this thing got so long:

Intro

My thoughts on Mileven (and why I don’t think they work anymore)

My thoughts on Byler (and why I do think they work)

Why I think Byler has a chance of being endgame

Why I think Byler might not be endgame

List of my fav Byler moments

Final thoughts

I have a LOT of thoughts on the whole “Byler vs Mileven” thing and I just need to get them off my chest for no one’s benefit but my own. First of all let me just say I like both ships, I’m not trying to yuck anyone’s yum this is all just my own opinion and interpretation okay? Okay good. Second of all I have no idea what the Duffers and Stranger Things writers are planning on actually doing and I don’t wanna pretend to know cause I honestly kinda think it could go either way at this point. So anyway, with that out of the way I will say that I personally am rooting for Byler endgame in terms of what I WANT, but I don’t hate Mileven or anything and I don’t know which one will be endgame. Also disclaimer I talk a lot. This will be long.

So first my thoughts on Mileven:

I think they’re cute and I see the appeal. Little nerdy boy meets mysterious badass (but sweet and traumatized) little girl, they go through a crazy ordeal together and help each other and become very emotionally bonded, then ensues a cute innocent puppy-love story. I get it! For years when I was more of a GA member I had never really given Byler much thought and I thought Mileven was cute but I wasn’t like invested into it or anything, and did see more issues in their relationship as the seasons progressed.

So anyway, my problems with their relationship are as follows:

- If we think about them from a real-word standpoint, the fact that they became romantically involved when they did is a little insane. If it were real life, I think anyone with a brain would agree that the last thing El in particular needed at that time was a “boyfriend”, or a boy kissing her, etc. I don’t blame innocent little twelve year old Mike, but poor little El had just barely learned what a “friend” was, and had no idea what Mike was trying to say when he tried to tell her he had a crush on her. She had no way of knowing anything about romance/what it entailed/what was healthy/what she wanted at that point. I mean really. When would she have ever had it modeled for her before? I seriously doubt she would understand the complete implications of something like a kiss. Plenty of twelve year olds with normal upbringings don’t fully grasp all the things to do with love and romance, let alone someone who was raised like El was. Again, if we were to pretend that something like this happened in real life, where a little girl escaped from a LAB where she was kept from the real world, not given a real name, emotionally and physically abused, dehumanized, and treated like an experiment for the first twelve years of her life, I think everyone would agree she would need a good amount of time to learn about/adjust to regular life. She definitely shouldn’t be getting romantically involved with anyone for a while, and especially not within the first week of meeting other people as a twelve year old. ANYWAY that was probably at least a little redundant but hopefully you get it. I don’t know how “realistic” Stranger Things wants to be in that regard, and you can have a little bit of suspension of disbelief with Mike and El’s love story, I get it, but yeah.

- As their relationship progresses and El adjusts more and more, they honestly don’t seem to have that much substance together, and while they obviously care for each other (how could they not considering their history together and how they met and bonded) their relationship is kinda immature and doesn’t actually feel that strong. They don’t really have any common interests (El still doesn’t know anything about DnD or any of Mike’s other nerdy [affectionate] interests and doesn’t seem interested in them, and also hasn’t developed too many interests of her own, but we do see she seems to like romance movies, something Mike doesn’t seem to like?), and spend most of their time ditching their friends and just kissing in season three. There just doesn’t seem to be a lot of development or mutual understanding to their relationship. They have communication issues, and their relationship problems are played for laughs in season three. Again, they obviously have some kind of bond, but now that they’re spending more time together their romantic relationship doesn’t seem that compelling or healthy. Also, we finally see El start forming other close friendships that she spends one-on-one time with outside of Mike only in season 3, and only THEN does she also finally start to even think about the fact that she can have her OWN INTERESTS AND TASTES. And she had a boyfriend before this? Anyway. You get it right? A lot of the GA actually seems to have an opinion similar to this now despite Mike and El being one of (if not the) most prominently featured romantic relationships in the show.

- They both seem to put each other on pedestals and (unintentionally) make each other insecure. Mike sees El as this badass superhero who at any moment could realize he’s a loser who’s not good enough for her and will not need him anymore. He doesn’t share his nerdy interests with her and at times even seems to try to pretend he’s someone he’s not to feel worthy of her and of a girl liking him in general (see: California arrival outfit). Meanwhile El seems to try and mold herself into a “pretty” “normal” girl to make herself feel worthy of having a boyfriend. She wants to fit the role of “girlfriend” and be good enough for a normal boy like Mike. She’s insecure about being different and doesn’t really want to be just a “superhero” or a “monster”, and idolizes girls she finds pretty and normal and tries to emulate them. She is also insecure about being bullied at school and not fitting in, and deliberately keeps this from Mike and lies to him about having friends and going to parties, presumably all in an attempt to impress him and make him think she’s good enough for him. So all in all, not a lot of healthy communication going on and they both seem to see each other (and themselves in relation to the other) in a somewhat skewed way.

- This can also be lumped in with their overall communication issues, but we also have the whole thing of Mike not being able to say “I love you” or the L word at all to El, something that means a lot to her and hurts her when she notices the pattern. Their whole fight about it in season 4 was also not a very healthy fight, and for me really did just highlight all the issues with their romantic relationship. The reasoning behind Mike not being able to say it can be interpreted in multiple ways sure, but it does just seem kinda “red-flag”y to me. El needs this verbal confirmation, and even when she’s confronting Mike about it and crying in front of him about it he just deflects and denies and STILL DOESN’T SAY IT! I feel like if you really were in love with someone and saw them crying asking you to tell them as much YOU WOULD TELL THEM? Unless you wanted to beeak up? In which case I also feel like that would indicate not being super in love? I don’t know. And yes we know he says it in the monologue but like it took a life or death, end of the world, situation to do it AND even then he still had to be coaxed into it by someone else. I don’t know. It could have been the writer’s intention to have the monologue fix all their problems and all that, but I kinda hope not, because I still don’t think their relationship seems healthy after everything else I’ve listed.

Okay, now onto Byler:

Like I mentioned, I never gave much thought to Byler until season 4. I had heard about it and knew some people shipped it, and I saw the appeal you know, but again didn’t think much of it and definitely didn’t think it had a shot in hell of being canon. Then season 4 happened, my third eye was opened, and seeing Byler become halfway canon was so earth-shattering and life changing that it made me think, if it came this far, maybe it has a chance of going all the way. And now all the pieces for me have clicked into place and I am 100% a Byler endgame advocate. If it’s done right, I think it would make so much narrative sense and be such a good ending for these characters.

So here is why I think that Byler should be endgame (whether it actually is or not):

- First of all, there’s the whole list of reasons I gave above as to why Mileven isn’t actually the healthiest relationship in my opinion, so that would (for me) justify them having a HEALTHY MUTUAL BREAKUP and El being single independent (which is not me wanting to take away her happiness or not wanting her to have a happy ending, El is my babygirl and don’t you dare try and tell me different) healthy and happy. I genuinely think it’d be best for her and Mike but especially her TRUST!

- Okay now onto my advocacy of Byler themselves. Pretty much of all the problems with Mike and El’s relationship are solved with Mike and Will’s potential relationship. I’ll list all of them in a similar way. Mike and Will met at the beginning of kindergarten and have been best friends ever since, already showing that they most definitely know each other well and have had years of bonding under their belts. They feel most comfortable telling each other everything and this is made clear multiple times in the show (hello crazy together scene, just to name one example). They specifically confide in each other and the bond between the two of them in particular (out of all the boys in their four-person friend group) has been repeatedly emphasized throughout the show. They have a special relationship and have been very close for some time.

- They know and see each other exactly as the other person is and love them for it, and don’t feel like they have to put up a front around each other. They have tons of common interests that they love sharing and partaking in together. Everything about himself that Mike is insecure about in his relationship with El, Will LOVES and knows him for. That nerd that Mike thinks isn’t good enough for El and avoids fully showing to her, a.k.a. his truest self, is quite literally who Will has known deeply for years and is in love with.

- No relationship is perfect obviously, and no one’s denying that Mike and Will have had conflicts in their relationship too, but the conflicts literally only started after Mike started dating El and pretty much all of them had to do with his relationship with El too. Like actually.

- Will loves Mike the way Mike wants to be loved, and you could argue vice versa. When Mike vents to Will about all his relationship problems with El, he talks repeatedly about how he’s afraid that she’ll realize she doesn’t need him anymore, and that he knows she doesn’t, emphasizing that he evidently wants to feel needed. We then learn through Will’s speech to him about El’s his feelings for him that Will needs Mike and always will. Every single thing Will says to Mike in that speech makes Mike feel infinitely better and more loved than he probably ever has, and all of it came from Will’s feelings and most of it can also be directly disproven as being how El feels. Mike makes her feel like she’s not a mistake at all and that she’s better for being different? El directly told him otherwise just the day before and we see that it’s true. Will’s the one who feels that way. El was mean to him and pushing him away because she was scared of losing him? She actively and enthusiastically wrote him while they were apart and signed all her letters with “Love, El” and tried to remain close. Will was the one doing this and was scared of losing Mike. She needs Mike and always will? Mike said himself that he knew she didn’t, and El was shown dealing with all her problems alone and often without Mike’s support, such as her problems with Angela and the Nina Project. It’s Will who needs Mike and always will. El signed her last letter to Mike after their fight before going to the Nina Project with “From, El”. I don’t know. it all seems to add up pretty well to me. So anyway, it’s Will who loves him the way he craves, and Will’s words and painting are what made him regain hope in his relationship with El because he thought they all came from her, but literally none of them did.

Now that I’ve sufficiently contrasted the two relationships and explained why I think Byler fits better, I’m going to explain why I think Byler has a chance of being canon/endgame:

- Will is completely canonically in love with Mike. This is the huge one and the one that opened my eyes to everything else. Like I said before, if they went halfway there’s a chance they could go the rest of the way too. If they do it right, I could easily see how they could introduce Mike loving Will back in the same way. If there’s a healthy Mileven break up, whose to say Mike can’t realize he’s either been in love with Will for a while and didn’t realize (thanks to heteronormativity), or realizes he loves Will and that Will is right for him after learning that all those words in the van and the painting were all from him? I could see this potentially being done through well-placed flashbacks and providing new insights on old scenes and stuff. It’s possible I think.

- They do have a decent amount of romantic tension and subtext in season 4 in particular. The repeated interruptions during intimate moments where they both are startled out of it, the fight where they say verbatim the words: “You called maybe a couple times. Meanwhile El has like a book of letters from you.” “That’s because she’s my girlfriend, Will!” “And us?” “We’re friends. We’re friends.”, the longing stares and double takes, like come ON! That is so blatant. I am also a strong advocate for the fact that if Will were a straight female character but everything else was the same, wayy more of the GA would ship them, realize they have a chance of being canon, pick up on the romantic subtext to their scenes and their compatibility, etc. Like way more people would realize that they are a valid option for a romantic pairing and I stand by that truth. Even Will being canonically gay and in love with Mike isn’t enough for some of these people because I guess maybe they think there’s no way Mike could like him back since Will is a boy and Mike’s had a girlfriend. First of all, are we forgetting bisexual people can exist, second of all, are we forgetting comphet can exist. There’s multiple ways that Mike liking Will back is possible despite Will being a boy and Mike having had a girlfriend (I am personally a bi Mike truther cause I think he did have a crush on El initially and it would also help explain why it would take him so much longer to realize he’s attracted to boys if he was attracted to girls too, whereas Will never liked girls so he realized he was different much earlier on. I support gay Mike truthers too though I think both are valid😌).

- I do think all the deliberate pairing and framing of them, again particularly in season 4, feels significant. Like the way they’re together all season having heart to hearts while El is gone and her and Mike are having problems and how practically their entire plot is centered around the Will Mike El love triangle. And the last shot of season 4? That one seriously gets me. Like that’s gotta mean something right? Like we have three couples extremely obviously placed as distinguished pairs, literally all eight feet apart from each other, and then El in the foreground alone. Like they could have had the others places as a sort of group or something, but they made the choice to have Nancy and Jonathan standing hand in hand, eight feet away theres Mike and Will standing side by side, and then another eight feet and we have Joyce and Hopper hand in hand. Like?? Anyway. That one feels huge to me.

- Will is the only character of the main group who has not had a romantic storyline yet. He’s the only one who hasn’t had a kiss or relationship or anything. And then we find out (as some had speculated) that he is in fact in love with Mike specifically, and it becomes a central part of his storyline. We’ve also been told that Will will play a huge part in season 5 and will have his coming of age moment, so it sounds pretty plausible that he could get the boy he’s loved for years and finally have the love story he never thought he would. We even have the scene in season 3 where his mom says “You’re not gonna think it’s gross when you fall in love” and Will mumbles “I’m not gonna… fall in love” which seems like it could be foreshadowing to me. Now that we know he is in love and we know who he’s in love with, it seems like it’d be a great payoff and resolution to have him end up with Mike. And just to reiterate, I think it would genuinely be best for El herself and for her character arc to be single, I am not just saying that for Byler’s sake and I put that on everything. But for Will’s storyline, the natural, satisfying, and happy resolution feels like it should be for him to get Mike I think.

- We are shown that Will is very selfless and self-sacrificing multiple times in the show, and this is further shown with his love for Mike. Despite being in love with Mike and feeling him grow distant at times due to his relationship with El, Will does nothing but try to help Mike when he comes to him with his relationship problems. He cares deeply about El and Mike and their happiness, and so he willingly self sabotages and breaks his own heart to push them back together and try to singlehandedly repair their relationship. Like literally. He gives Mike that whole speech about how “El” feels to make him feel better and try to assuage his self doubt and make him feel needed, and it works, and as soon as Mike is feeling better about his relationship with El Will turns to the other side so Mike can’t see him and sobs his eyes out. Like oh my GOD. And then I’m what, not supposed to root for him? This also makes me feel like it’d be such good pay off for Will to then end up with the boy since he loved him so selflessly and patiently from the side all that time. So was this all intentionally set up by the writers? Only time will tell.

- Another thing that hints at a possible Byler endgame for me is the Jancy/Stancy love triangle parallels to the Byler/Mileven love triangle. People talk about a lot of Byler parallels to multiple other relationships in the show but the Jancy ones stick out the most to me. First of all we have the fact that Jancy are literally Byler’s older siblings. They could also be called Byler technically since it’s going off last names. The whole speech that Murray gives to Nancy and Jonathan in season 2 also fits sooo well with Mike and Will. Just replace Nancy with Mike, Johnathan with Will, and Steve with El. And the scene where Nancy and Jonathan sit on the car in season 2 and have a heart to heart when Nancy can’t say I love you to Steve paralleled to the scene in season 4 where Mike and Will sit on a car and have a heart to heart when Mike can’t say I love you to El. And might I also add that the Wheeler and Byers siblings sit on the same sides in both scenes, and both Wheeler siblings hold a soda can in each scene. I feel like that’s gotta be intentional. Right? And as we know, Nancy ends up breaking up with Steve and gets with Jonathan, and I’m rooting for Jancy endgame especially cause we also have them as one of those isolated pairs in the last shot of season 4.

- I do feel like it’d be kinda unsatisfying/weird to end the Will being in love with Mike storyline any other way. Will gets over Mike? Well then why did they establish him being in love with Mike for years, it doesn’t seem like something you just get over. And then what would have been the point of making his character in love with Mike anyway? Angst? They could have had him still help fix Mike and El’s relationship without him loving Mike. Will gets rejected by Mike and has to just deal with it? Again, then what was the point of making his character love him in the first place? And that just feels anticlimactic and cruel, especially considering what Will’s character has been through. I want him to have his happy ending so bad. Will meets a new boy and gets a new love interest? That would be so unsatisfying cause it would just be some rando that the audience isn’t nearly as familiar with/attached to, and for a character as central as Will it just feels lame. And I again raise the question WHAT WOULD HAVE BEEN THE POINT OF WRITING HIM BEING IN LOVE WITH MIKE FOR YEARS? And then if the whole Will loving Mike thing/WillMikeEl love triangle is just never really addressed again in season 5 then that’d just be shitty writing. So anyway. Also, I sorta feel like Mike rejecting Will/not feeling the same way is the more “expected” thing to happen, so him feeling the same and them ending up together would actually be a more satisfying twist. And we know they love a good twist. And again, IF they did it right I think the writers could at least make most of the GA on board with Mileven breakup and Byler endgame by the time it happens.

- Mike’s monologue was not nearly as compelling as it could have been, if you ask me. Which makes me wonder whether or not that was intentional. Flashbacks are used abundantly in season 4 for emotional impact in scenes like that, and to showcase different characters’ important relationships. There was no Mileven flashback montage, in the season of flashback montages. And they totally could have done it!! There are plenty of genuinely cute and happy Mileven snippets that they could have used to make one, so I wonder why they didn’t when they did that for so many other characters. Like would Mike’s monologue not have been the time to do it, to remind the audience of all their good shared moments and reinstill everyone’s faith in their relationship? And also, the main line that irks me from the monologue is where Mike says about the first second he met El “I knew right then and there, in that moment, that I loved you. And I’ve loved you everyday since”, because…. no he didn’t? Like I’m sorry if the writers genuinely meant that to be taken at face value and taken seriously because it’s just objectively not true. Why in the hell would this distraught twelve year old out searching for his missing best friend in the rain, upon coming across a scared kid with a shaved head and wearing nothing but a huge t-shirt in the woods, have his first thought be “I’m in love”? That makes no fucking sense. And we also see that he didn’t! He looks at her in bewilderment, understandably, and that’s the one Mileven flashback we get. And, that night after they bring El back to Mike’s house we hear him telling Lucas and Dustin about how he wanted to send El back around the front of the house in the morning and have his mom deal with her. He says “she’ll send her back to Pennhurst or wherever she comes from and we’ll be totally in the clear.” Does that sound like someone who was in love at first sight? No! Because why on Earth would he have been? So anyway, if the writers were really being fr with that then I genuinely just don’t know what to say. Also the stuff where Mike talks about how she’s a superhero and can fly and move mountains and stuff. I still feel like El wants to be seen as a normal girl and a person and know that Mike loves her for that first and foremost, so those lines are iffy to me too. He could have thrown in more about what he loves about her as an individual I guess. There are so many other compelling, true things they could have potentially written to make the monologue as impactful and “Mileven solidifying” as possible, but they didn’t. I think. And they didn’t include flashbacks. Just saying. And then there’s also the thing people have brought up about how they still don’t seem totally great after the monologue, and we get another Mike and Will heart to heart afterwards where Mike says El hasn’t talked to him much. Like there’s no final Mileven cute scene, or Mileven kiss, or anything.

Okay, now for reasons that I’m not positive that we will get Byler endgame, and why I think it’s still all up in the air and could go either way:

- Mileven has been an established canon romantic pairing since season 1 that many people are used to and also like (even if I do think they’ve fallen a little bit out of the GA’s good graces over the past few seasons), and it does sometimes just seem kind of crazy to think that they’ll break them up in the last season of the show.

- Mileven has had some very cute and endearing moments, and genuinely good scenes. The season 2 reunion is still unmatched actually. Their snowball scenes are also really good, and the scenes in season 1 where Mike calls her pretty, especially after her wig is gone. And their initial love story is cute.

- I do just sometimes have doubts that such a mainstream show will make a gay relationship between two of the main main characters canon, especially when it hasn’t been completely spelled out since the beginning. Cause you know there’s mainstream shows that have blatantly gay characters at the forefront and are mainly targeted at gay audiences, like Heartstopper and stuff, and there’s mainstream shows that aren’t primarily gay shows but have token gay characters (but those characters are more often than not side characters who don’t have much more to their personality other than being gay), but there doesn’t seem to be many mainstream shows targeted at all audiences that aren’t primarily “gay” shows that introduce gay characters and relationships into the forefront. That was a run-on sentence sorry. Point is, it would be kinda crazy and legendary for Stranger Things to end with their two main male characters getting into in a gay relationship in the last season. Will I think is already pretty great representation; he’s a main character with huge plot significance, he’s super well rounded and beautifully portrayed, and him being gay in no way takes up what his character is. Like he’s definitely not reduced to just being a token gay character. He’s the Will Byers. And him being gay only became more blatant and “confirmed” as his character got older and his storyline progressed, but he was always a gay character and you can see it from the beginning if you’re not stupid. Anyway, I digress, I’m just saying I have some doubts because it’s so common to be queerbaited or not have canon gay relationships happen when they aren’t established from the beginning on such big shows that aren’t primarily for gay audiences.

Now before we go, just because I can, a quick list of my favorite Byler moments in (mostly, I think) chronological order:

- Mike biking home crying and then hugging his mom after they find Will’s body in the quarry

- Mike shoving Troy to the ground for making fun of Will and saying he was “in fairyland now, all happy and gay”

- Mike and Will reunion in the hospital where he puts his head on Will’s chest

- Mike finding Will outside the arcade snapping him out of trance putting his arm around him and taking him back in.

- Mike gazing forlornly at Will’s empty desk

- Will screaming for Mike in the upside down

- Mike finding Will and taking him away from everyone else and bringing him to his house on Halloween night when he finds him having a panic attack after a vision (the general pattern of Mike always being the one who finds Will during these things)

- Crazy together scene

- Mike demanding to be let in to the Byers’ house to see if Will is okay

- The “we won’t let him” scene where Mike comforts newly possessed Will and puts his hand on Will’s

- Will screaming for Mike while being wheeled through the hospital in agony

- Will remembering Mike’s name even when the Mindflayer’s possession starts to take over

- Mike carrying unconscious Will at the lab

- The scene where Mike cries while telling possessed Will about the first day they met and how asking Will to be his friend was the best thing he’s ever done, and possessed Will cries too even though he can’t answer

- When Will immediately turned to Mike after that girl asked him to dance at the snowball and he didn’t want to

- The Byler Lumax double date at the movie theater where the pairs sat in seperate rows and everything

- Will’s “I’m not gonna fall in love” scene

- The rain fight where Mike says “It’s not my fault you don’t like girls!” and they both fall silent

- Mike chasing after Will in the pouring rain immediately after the fight to apologize

- Mike and Will hugging when they’re all saying goodbye to the Byers and Will’s crying so hard

- Mike staring back at the Byers’ empty house after the moving van left and everyone rode away with Hopper’s letter narrating

- Mike going home after the Byers were gone looking empty and shell-shocked and hugging his mom, still with Hopper’s narration

- Will painting in his room for Mike with El’s letter to Mike narrating and saying “Will has been painting a lot! But he won’t show me what he’s working on. Maybe it is for a girl! I think there is someone he likes, because he has been acting… weird.”

- Will looking absolutely dopey happy while waiting for Mike at the airport with his painting

- The awkward airport reunion where Will goes to hug Mike and he doesn’t hug him back and pats him on the shoulder instead and Will’s face immediately falls and he doesn’t give Mike the painting or say what it is (why on Earth would Mike do that I feel like that must mean something else too)

- The fight at the roller rink where Mike says the “We’re friends. We’re friends.” line

- Will staring at Mike all during breakfast while Mike is distracted

- The heart to heart in Will’s room where Mike crumples and throws away the letter from El and Will comforts him

- The heart to heart in Will’s room while they’re packing where they apologize for everything from before and Will gets tears in his eyes when Mike says “It’s Hawkins, it’s not the same without you.” and all that stuff and then at the end they both smile at each other in silence and jump when the moment is broken and Jonathan comes in. And then Will decides to put his painting in his back pack

- When Will stares at Mike with the most longing look of all time when they’re out in the desert and Mike looks back at him, sees Will looking at him and does an awkward flustered triple take before going back to what he was doing and Will keeps staring

- When Mike and Will have the heart to heart on top of the car (just like Jancy) and Will says “Sometimes, I think it’s just.. scary, to open up like that. To say how you really feel. Especially to people you care about the most, because, what if- what if they don’t like the truth?” and then gives Mike a meaningful glance

- The talk in the van where Will finally gives Mike the painting but then pretends it’s from El and tells Mike how he feels and also pretends that’s from El and when Mike feels better he turns out to the window and sobs and Jonathan notices the whole thing

- So many longing stares from Will in season 4 and multiple interruptions of intimate conversations

- When Mike and Will have a heart to heart in Hopper’s broken down cabin with the sun beams coming through the broken wall and framing Will beautifully and Mike grabs Will’s shoulder

- The final shot of season 4 with Mike and Will side by side in a distinguished pair staring over Hawkins with the dramatic music

So I think I finally said everything I wanted to say. This was way longer than I expected maybe the longest post of all time. I don’t think I even said anything that hasn’t been said by someone else before but still I just wanted to get all my “Byler vs Mileven” thoughts out in one cohesive thing cause it’s been driving me crazy. But these are all the things I find relevant I guess and anyway yeah Byler endgame please Duffers but if you don’t I’ll survive I guess maybe just please end the show well that’s all I ask. ALSO one last thing if Byler becomes endgame but it’s done in a shitty way I’ll be so mad cause there’s so much potential. If any of them die also I’ll never forgive the duffers that is NOT how I want the love triangle resolved. I don’t want any of those three to be sad I want happy endings all around and that goes for the other characters too they’re all my pookies it’s just that this post was about Byler and Mileven. This is my final word.

[lavender-ronance]

New Girl x Byler

disclaimer: nick and jess as a ship are referred to as “moby” throughout this. i was part of the new girl fandom before they were given a ship name and that is the name we gave them ok? ok. most of the parallel is done under s4 byler. enjoy.

Season 2 Byler

So season 2 Byler is very much Moby before and throughout them dating. We have Mike who cares about Will more than anything but also misses Eleven. And we have Nick who cares about Jess more than anything but also misses Caroline. We also have the snowball where Mike watches Will and actually encourages him to dance with the girl. Similarly, we have Nick who encourages Jess with Paul and Russel and then Sam. All parties involved constantly put the other’s needs before their own.

Season 3 Byler

This is very much post Moby breakup. Nick dates other girls and Jess is honestly happy for him, she even tries to move on with Ryan and then later with Sam. Meanwhile Nick dates a few different girls, he’s not really happy like he was with Jess. Until we meet: Reagan.

Season 4 Byler

While I think El can be aligned with a few different girls Nick dates throughout the series, I do think she most closely parallels Reagan here. They are both emotionally incompetent, quiet, and distant. They haven’t had experience maintaining relationships, and that includes romantic and platonic. Mike and Nick both doubt themselves, see themselves as the problem, and have difficulty sharing their feelings (also hc Mike as a writer). Will and Jess are both artsy/crafty, more emotionally competent and show the most love and care for everyone around them. 

Leading up to NG s6e19, where Jess leaves for Portland, we have Jess watching Nick and Reagan be in love. But even more than that, Jess is the sole reason Nick and Reagan are together. She helps them communicate with each other. She tells Reagan word for word what to say to Nick when he’s having his breakdown during the book reading. It is even explicitly stated that Jess is responsible for her own worst nightmare which is Nick being happy and in love with someone who isn’t her. But instead of telling Nick how she feels and potentially ruining this happiness for him, she leaves. She puts his feelings before her own.

Similarly, we have William Byers, my sweet child. He has not only been witness to the overwhelming love fest the summer of 1985, but has also listened to El talk about Mike while they were in California. Then Mike comes to California and the two ignore him the whole time. Will is watching Mike and El be in love. He is watching two people he cares about (just as Jess cares about Nick and Reagan) be happy and in love, while he stands to the side, in love with Mike. And the only reason these two are still together is because of him. And that is very obviously him pushing Mike to talk to El in the Surfer Boy scene as well as him practically giving Mike the words during the van scene. But it is also the fact that El and Mike likely would have never met had it not been for Will going missing. Similarly, Reagan and Nick likely would have never met had Jess not done jury duty. 

The van scene also more directly parallels the Moby scene where Nick is saying he doesn’t understand why Reagan would ever like him and Jess yells at him for being the only one who doesn’t see how amazing he is. 

[esoehh]

Hopefully Ever After (The Amish Bookstore Novels Book 3) by Beth Wiseman

Book Details: 

Title: Hopefully Ever After

Series: The Amish Bookstore Novels Book 3

Author: Beth Wiseman

Publisher: Zondeervan   

Pages: 336  

Release Date: April 18, 2023

Genre: Amish romance 

⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️⭐️

Book Description:

Sixteen-year-old Eden Hale doesn’t want to be defined by her current circumstances. Her mother is in prison, she doesn’t know her father, and she’s had her own run-ins with the law, but Eden refuses to become what people expect. When she is sent to live with an Amish cousin she’s never met in Montgomery, Indiana, she welcomes the chance to become the person she wants to be without the burden of anyone’s judgment. Her hopes are confirmed when she meets Samuel, a young Amish man who seems to like her for who she really is.

Samuel Byler has grown up with strict Amish parents, and they aren’t happy that their only son is choosing to spend his free time with an outsider. As Eden and Samuel grow closer, assumptions close in around the young couple. It isn’t long before Eden starts to doubt herself and wonders if she is doomed to follow in her mother’s footsteps, whether she wants to or not. Meanwhile, Samuel finds himself slipping further and further from his faith—to Eden’s dismay.

Both Eden and Samuel’s futures hang in the balance as they face decisions about who they are—both as individuals and together.

My Thoughts:  

Teenage years are one of the many difficult times in life. For Eden and Samuel, it is especially difficult. They share many similarities in how tough the road towards growing up truly is, but they also have some differences. While Eden is searching for a deeper faith journey, Samuel is questioning his and wondering if he's missing out on life. Eden is trying to live in a way that dispels any preconceived notions people may have of her. Samuel, on the other hand, is walking the line while feeling like he's just going through the motions. As they spend time together, they fall into an easy and honest sharing of their struggles. They find a kindred spirit in each other which deepens their friendship and relationship. In turn, their relationship also has an affect on their family relationships. Sometimes the results are good and sometimes they are not so good. Will Eden and Samuel's friendship and faith walk be able to survive their differences as well as the good and the bad? 

Hopefully Ever After is a wonderful story of hope, faith, new beginnings and second chances. The characters were realistic and drew me in  completely.  I found myself cheering them on and hoping that they would get to where they needed to be. It was a truly inspirational story and one that I highly recommend.

Thank you to NetGalley for providing me with a complimentary copy of this book. All comments and opinions are voluntary and strictly my own. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

About the Author: Beth Wiseman

Bestselling and award-winning author Beth Wiseman has sold over two million books. She is the recipient of the coveted Holt Medallion, a two-time Carol Award winner, and has won the Inspirational Reader’s Choice Award three times. Her books have been on various bestseller lists, including CBD, CBA, ECPA, and Publishers Weekly. Beth and her husband are empty nesters enjoying country life in south central Texas. Visit her online at: 

[novalunosiss]

It’s almost been 24 hours since vol 2 came out and I’m still super pissed off, so here’s a list of everything wrong in volume 2.

Byler. Queerbait of the fucking century??? I would’ve been significantly less upset if they hadn’t advertised/marketed it so hard during pride month. And making the queer kid the sad gay vessel through which the straight couple thrives is nothing short of homophobic.

The deaths. They advertised this season as being particularly dangerous/full of death, which was a straight up lie. The only people who died were either antagonists or minor background characters, with the exception of Eddie (though it was extremely obvious from the start that he was canon fodder, much like Bob- despite how much I liked Eddie’s character, there was never a doubt in my mind that he wasn’t going to die.)

Max’s “death”. So I know I just did a section on the deaths but this one pissed me off so much I had to give it it’s own seperate section. Max’s “death” was a total copout. Don’t get me wrong, I love her character. But I wish she did die. Having someone die and be brought back to life is such a terrible, cliche, overused trope. It’s too safe of a choice. Where is the danger? I want to actually be scared that the characters I love might not make it out alive. And since when could El bring people back to life? That’s never been explored in the show before, making it completely out of place and confusing when watching the scene. Having Max die would’ve been impactful, and shown to the audience that any of the characters can die, not just new ones, or unimportant background ones. It would’ve raised the stakes! The scene where she “died” was heartbreaking and powerful, but then they negated that by bringing her back to life, rendering the scene pointless. They either should’ve actually genuinely killed her, or not have her “die” at all. Having that “in-between” sort of situation where she technically died, but came back to life (albeit in a coma) was super flaky, and imo, bad writing.

Speaking of bad writing, the time skip! This is genuinely one of the worst things I’ve seen implemented in the show. I generally don’t like time skips anyway, but at least the one at the end of s3 made sense. The main drama of that season was resolved, and they needed to show the Byers moving away. The time skip this season, however, made 0 fucking sense. The drama hadn’t been resolved, it just skipped like half of the climax and the entirety of the falling action, and went straight to the resolution (which wasn’t even a resolution at all). 2 days is a pretty big time skip to implement after skipping half the climax. What happened during those two days??? It was confusing as fuck, and none of the characters actions/behaviour during the “resolution” phase of the story made sense, maybe with the exception of Dustin and Lucas, who were shown to be grieving unlike almost everyone else. You’re telling me that Nancy, Robin and Steve just fought fucking Vecna, almost died, and some of their friends did die (if you count Max) and two days later they’re happily packing up a bunch of old belongings to donate, without a care in the world? And during that scene, there seemed to be little to no concern about Mike’s whereabouts from the entire Wheeler family until he actually showed up. They mentioned they’d been trying to contact them for days, but nothing about their demeanour beforehand implied concern.

The monologue. Need I even say more? It was cheesy, cringey, and made no narrative sense. The reasoning Mike gave for being unable to tell El he loved her was one of the stupidest reasons I’ve seen in media, ever. Where was the “amazing monologue” we were promised by the Duffers? That sure as hell isn’t what I’d call amazing. Finn is a great actor, and he’s done amazing monologues before (*cough cough*, the shed scene) so that isn’t on him, it’s on the shitty script. “I feel like my life first started when I met you in the woods”? Bullshit, and such a cruel thing to say in front of Will, who’s life was literally turned upside down on the exact same day. “I loved you since the moment I saw you”? Love at first sight is a cringey trope. Mike was 12 when he first met Eleven. He probably didn’t even know the meaning of love, especially when you take a look at how dysfunctional his parents marriage is/Nancy, his older sisters relationship at the time was. Also, how can he say he loved her the moment he saw her when he spent most of s1 trying to get rid of her (saying he was going to send her back to pennhurst) and calling her a “weapon”? El could’ve found strength to beat Vecna in something far more significant than a teenage boy telling her he loves her, but noooo.

Will’s painting. I really feel like I don’t have to elaborate on this one. It just fucking sucked. They built it up like it was going to be some really important declaration of love from Will to Mike, only to have it be used to help further Mileven. Also the actual painting was ass, and all the fan theories about it were way better and more meaningful. (Like the idea we all had of the swingset where Mike and Will first met, or even just a painting of the two of them as their D&D characters, but SEPERATE from the rest of the group so it was actually obvious what the painting meant.)

The upside down thing with Henry?? I don’t even know what’s going on there. It was super confusing. Is the mind flayer actually Henry? Did El create the upside down or was it there before? Why did it look like that when Henry first got sent there, but looks like Hawkins now? I know they’ll likely answer these questions next season, but there’s just too many questions and knowing now how shit the duffers are at writing, I doubt they’ll all be answered satisfactorily.

The terrible character development. By that, I mean that there was none. Literally no characters had any development. They were all exactly the same as they were at the start of the season. El is still dependent on Mike/isn’t her own person. Mike is still a fucking asshole who treats his friends like shit. Will is still in the closet and hiding his true feelings from everyone around him. Nancy and Jonathan are still lying to each other. Steve is still pining after Nancy. Robin is still pining after Vickie. I could go on and on.

The Duffers hate minorities + poor people. Will and Robin, the two queer characters, don’t get well rounded love interests like all of the straight characters, and Will in particular is made to suffer constantly. Lucas and Erica, the two black characters, are both physically assaulted. Max and Eddie, the two poorest characters, who are living in a trailer park, fucking die. (from @hellfireds) Oh, also? The Duffers filmed parts of s4 in a fucking Nazi prison, where Jewish people were held against their wills and killed. (from @artmuseumsandoldbooks)

I’m going to keep updating this list as I think of more things that are wrong with vol 2. There’s already so many things I could add if I decided to include the shit wrong with vol 1 as well, but vol 2 was significantly worse so I’m just gonna stick to that. Feel free to suggest anything else I should add to the list

In conclusion, FUCK THE DUFFERS

[thranduel]

i hate it when people say “mike and el’s relationship has been built up from the start which means they must be endgame, and byler wouldn’t make sense anyways!” because mike and will’s relationship literally existed before mike and el met, byler was introduced in the show first, AND they have more history and build up than mike and el, even if it’s not all shown on screen to the audience.

i also feel like people don’t realise all of mike and will’s emotional season 2 scenes where mike takes care of will and stays by his side at all times happened BEFORE mike and el started dating. like, the "crazy together" and "it was the best thing i've ever done" scenes literally happened when mike and el weren't even dating... in season 1 they only knew each other for a few days and then el disappeared. also, the kiss isn't confirmation of dating and neither are all the times mike called her because she couldn't respond. they technically never made it "official" because they were still basically strangers at that point and el didn’t know what romantic relationships/kisses meant. that's why i don’t understand why people act like they’ve been married since the first season and why they get so offended at the idea of byler and say "that would be so forced and unrealistic because mike and el were built up since the start!" lol. there's no doubt that mike and el love and care for each other and grew emotionally attached to each other, but even now in season 4, they're still trying to figure out how to express their love and discover what true romantic love actually is, so what makes you think they knew what true romantic love was back in the first season when they were kids that knew each other for a few days?

anyways just because something isn’t romantically canon doesn’t mean it’s impossible for it to became romantic later on, and it also doesn’t mean the build up wasn’t there from the beginning, because it definitely was for mike and will. even if byler didn’t start having romantic feelings for each other until later on in the show (i mean i personally think they’ve liked each other for a long time), their feelings are still valid regardless and they certainly didn’t “come out of nowhere”. they’ve been best friends since childhood, experienced so many things together and they’ve had very many meaningful scenes, and all of that is a part of building it up. even if you don’t specifically see it as “romantic” build up doesn’t mean it can’t eventually lead to something romantic. the point is that it’s still build up and their relationship has been heavily focused on from the beginning, and it’s clearly different to the other platonic relationships between the boys. mike and lucas, mike and dustin, will and lucas and will and dustin don’t have scenes like mike and will do. and mike already clarified that he considers all of them his best friends, so why is it different with will? why does the show focus on the closeness of their relationship and even dive into the history of how they first met but they don’t do that with the others? why would they show mike saying that asking will to be his friend was the best thing he’s ever done? why didn’t dustin or lucas have a scene with will in that episode as well? why did mike get a long emotional scene with will where they both started crying? why was season 2 so focused on mike and will and how mike is so caring and protective over him? why are mike and will some of the only characters that get emotional scenes where they’re talking privately and they’re actually able to be comfortable, open, honest and vulnerable with each other (“crazy together” scene and “it’s not the same without you” scene for example)? when jonathan was talking to will in this scene (which by the way, the title is “the byers brothers have a heart-to-heart” and it’s from the official stranger things youtube account), he got upset and said “stop treating me like that… like everyone else does, like there’s something wrong with me… mom, dustin, lucas, everyone”, but he didn’t mention mike because he knows that mike hasn’t treated him any differently, and he’s been by his side trying to make him feel better. mike even said “if we’re both going crazy, then we’ll go crazy together, right?” so that will didn’t feel alone.

i can’t list even list all of it in one post, but everything i just mentioned is build up and it clearly focuses on how strong, genuine and meaningful their relationship is. just because something isn't obvious to you or you don’t see it in a romantic way or you don’t pay attention to subtext and character behaviour doesn’t mean you can say “it doesn’t make sense” or “this is forced and unrealistic”. it’s already semi-canon anyway, meaning that one half of the ship has been confirmed to like the other, and i think it’s safe to assume that will already liked mike in the scenes i mentioned above. and like i said before, all of those meaningful mike and will scenes in season 2 happened before mike and el started officially dating. they weren't even together during any of it. one kiss in the first season doesn’t count as dating, especially considering el didn’t even know what a kiss was. also, they only knew each other for a few days and were still basically strangers at that point, then she disappeared right after, so how exactly did they build up mike and el “from the start” before mike and will? just because they started to develop a crush on each other in the first season and kissed by the end of it and then mike tried contacting her doesn’t mean they fell in love and got married. they definitely cared about each other and grew attached, but even now in season 4, they’re clearly still struggling to express their love, so how would they have known they were “in love” back then? i don’t understand why people act like they’re married with no option of divorce and they “must be endgame” because “they’ve been built up romantically since season 1”. they were kids that knew each other for a few days and then one of them disappeared right after!! i think someone even mentioned that if anything, the last 2 seasons focuses more on their arguments and conflicts instead of meaningful scenes where they could actually communicate and be honest with each other (wasn’t their phrase “friends don’t lie” as well? it seems like they lie more than they tell the truth in their relationship, and i know they’re young and trying to figure things out but it’s just not fair for either of them at this point). it’s getting so repetitive and i’m not seeing any growth or development.

anyways even if they did make byler canon and they wrote it well and did it in a way where mike and el mutually broke up (because like i’ve said, i don’t want to see el heartbroken), it would make so much sense to the overall story and it would actually result in proper character and story development and explain most of the scenes we saw in volume 1 (specifically mike’s weird behaviour towards will), rather than being repetitive and having everyone stay exactly how they were seasons ago. will has suffered every season, mike and el always fight and then make up, then they continue to be lovey dovey and exclude everyone around them. not sure about anyone else, but it’s so incredibly frustrating to watch especially when mike is completely different when he’s with will, lucas and dustin. i miss when mike actually felt like himself; when he was willing to do anything to protect his friends. and considering will, lucas and dustin have all confronted mike and called him out at some point for being too consumed with el and excluding them, i think that says a lot and it just doesn’t seem very healthy or fair to me lol.

and i’ve said this many times but i guarantee you if will was a girl, people would LOVE byler and they wouldn’t say it’s “forced” or “unrealistic”. childhood best friends and romantic slowburn are probably the most popular and well-loved tropes in fiction, and that’s exactly what mike and will are. just because you don’t see them romantically or always thought they were “better as friends” doesn’t mean it’s impossible for them to become romantic or have feelings for each other. it’s not “forced” at all and you don’t get to decide that they only see each other as friends just because you prefer and/or interpret their relationship as platonic (like i said, it’s already semi-canon because will liking mike is confirmed. so you can’t act like he doesn’t like him because he does!!!!!). they don’t have to be your favourite ship, that’s completely fine, but you can’t act like byler is unrealistic when that’s just simply not true. their relationship is one of the best in the show because it’s so real and genuine and they’ve been by each other’s side since they were young. they’ve overcome so many struggles and had to deal with being outcasts and bullied for most of their lives. they’ve experienced so much together and regardless of what you think of them or whether you prefer them platonically or romantically, you cannot pretend like they don’t have such a beautiful story and so much build up. their relationship could work beautifully platonically or romantically, but after confirmation that will likes mike and seeing season 4 and all the teasing from the cast, it’s clear that they’re going in a romantic direction and it would just be silly to deny it at this point.

[wheelerthefroghere]

So Byler in S5? I’m still 100% confident. 

Don’t know if this has been said because I haven’t gone through the tag yet. Here we go. First of all, at no point in Volume 2 did we get a kiss between Mike and El. After Mike’s “confession” we also failed to get a proper conversation between the two or even a confirmation on her side that she still loves him. Once again, every meaningful conversation these two seem to have as a couple happens offscreen lmao. Now, let’s talk parallels. 

Reunions:

Both of these scenes begin with hugs (which are also super similar) followed by forehead touches. Then...

Sound familiar? Also, again, both take place right after a reunion hug. There’s also more of the “bitchin’?” “bitchin’” stuff which has been a Hopper + El and a Mike + El parallel before. So, like, yeah. Super romantic that Mike’s relationship with Eleven is still being constantly paralleled to her platonic, familial relationship with her dad. 

Then we still have this...

So not only is Mike like El’s dad. He’s also like her papa. Love to see it. 

I also think it’s kind of hilarious that in his confession, he tells El that he was never scared of her, but this still begs to differ. I don’t know. Kinda weird. Also a little weird that he only confessed to El after Will prompted him to. Isn’t that sort of a callback to Mike prompting Will to dance with that girl at the snow ball? Could this not just be him playing his part as the heart and just saying what he thinks he needs to say to her? Cause I still haven’t seen what truth El wouldn’t have liked to hear from him. 

The whole love at first sight thing contradicts the Stranger Things Writers who have said they don’t believe in love at first sight. His speech also contradicts the moment when he told Will that asking him to be his friend was the best thing he’d ever done (what with Mike not really living until he met El). There really isn’t anything in his confession to El that necessarily makes it romantic. Platonic love is just as important as romantic love and that’s still what could have been meant. I’m not saying he was lying to her about everything, I just don’t think we were supposed to take it as “I’m in love with you” sort of thing. 

My dudes, they are giving us the slow burn of the century. They’ve been building it up and we are getting the pay-off in season 5. I’m 100% sure of it. I seriously have no shred of doubt. 

Finally: 

Don’t you love seeing all of the couples standing together?  ♥

[purpleshadow-star]

Tbh my biggest Byler proof is Lumax.

The Duffers have done a love triangle before in S2 with Max, Lucas and Dustin. Lucas and Dustin both liked Max, just like how Will and El both like Mike. The difference is, it was clear that Max didn't return Dustin's feelings, even without knowing about them. The Duffers set up Lucas and Max so well, allowing them to connect and become friends before anything else, while also making it clear that Dustin's feelings were not, and would never be, returned by Max. So, obviously the Duffers know how to do a love triangle where two characters like each other and the other is in an unrequited love situation.

So, if there was no chance that Mike might like Will back, why didn't they do this same love triangle again?

Instead of making it clear that Mike only thinks of Will in a platonic way, the Duffers went out of their way to include multiple heart-to-hearts between the two, (something that has been almost exclusively for romantic pairings and families in the show, but that's a topic for another post), and they use romantic tropes in many of their scenes (ex: their conversations constantly being interrupted, the dramatic rain fight, etc).

The Duffers have not made it clear that Mike has no interest in Will romantically, like they did with Max and Dustin.

Furthermore, Mike's main problem with El in S4 was that he couldn't say "I love you." But why is this a problem? Let's look back at lumax.

Lumax is broken up for the entirety of S4, but there is not a single doubt in anyone's mind that they love each other. We have seen Max and Lucas kiss only once on the show. Their first kiss. After that, we see them hold hands and be close, but that's all. They're not leaving their friends to be alone, and they've never said the words "I love you" to each other on screen, yet their love is undeniable. Anyone who watches the show can see that Lucas and Max care for each other and love each other so much, despite the fact that we've never seen them say it.

This heavily contrasts Mike and El's relationship. Mike and El spent the beginning of S3 making out and leaving their friends to be alone, then they break up and neither seems too torn about it. We get Mike saying "I love you" and we get El saying it as well in S3, but we don't really feel it (it feels more like telling, not showing, but the Duffers are experts in show don't tell, so it has to be on purpose). It's obvious that Mike and El care about each other, but we don't get that same feeling of love that we get from lumax.

In S4, the conflict of Mike not being able to say "I love you" to El arises. It seems like the audience is supposed to be thinking, "come on, everyone knows you love her, just say it!" But... do we know that? While nobody can doubt the love between Max and Lucas, despite there being other ships involving them such as elmax, there are many people who doubt Mike's romantic love for El, not because they ship byler or elmax or any other ship with Mike or El, but because that romantic love is simply not shown.

This is further evidenced by the fact that Max was able to think of several memories, from all 3 seasons Max has been in, of her and Lucas just having fun and caring about each other and being there for each other when she was trying to escape Vecna, but during Mike's monologue, the only memory we see, the only memory that is mentioned, is when they first met, despite there being quite a few scenes and memories that they could have shown/talked about (ex: their reuntion in S2, the snowball, etc).

On the other hand, we are shown that Mike cares about Will, which has been established since the beginning. Season 1 and 2 especially showcased Mike caring for Will and it showed their deep connection, and this is further emphasized by Mike going after Will in the rain after their fight in S3, and Mike actively going to Will and taking steps to repair their friendship in S4. No one can deny that Mike loves Will, we just have to wait and see if it's romantic love or platonic love, because the way it's portrayed, it's subtle enough that it can be called platonic, but it's also strong enough that it's not a stretch to call it romantic. Furthermore, when Will was possessed in S2, Mike was able to recall several memories of good times with Will. We only didn't see flashbacks because the happened before the show starts so they weren't filmed, but it's clear that Mike has no problem recalling meaningful memories about someone he cares about when they're in danger.

At the end of the day, lumax is basically the standard for love in Stranger Things, and yet in many ways, Mike and El's relationship is the opposite of theirs, despite the fact that Mike and El also supposedly love each other.

It is also very telling that many of the parallels between byler and lumax were done first by byler. Lumax parallels byler in many ways, and since lumax is the standard for love, that has to mean something.

The Duffers clearly know how to write a good relationship that also includes conflict (Lumax, Jancy (more in S3 since the S4 conflict hasnt been resolved yet but still)), but they chose not to do that with Mike and El.

If Will's love was unrequited, the Duffers wouldn't have dragged it out past the 4th season. They would have shut it down like they did with Max and Dustin, but they didn't. That was a choice, and given all of the evidence, it seems clear that byler endgame makes the most sense.

I also couldn't find any parallels, visual or otherwise, between the Lucas-Max-Dustin situation and the Will-Mike-El situation where Dustin and Will are framed in the same way, despite them supposedly being in the same situation, but we see plenty of parallels between byler and lumax.

[beepboop358]

Helloo, i'm probably just repeating what everyone else is saying but i need to get my thoughts out 😅

On the one hand, the only thing giving me a little bit of hope at this point is the framing of all the couples at the end. On the other hand, i didn't see a single real (as in obvious) hint of mike reciprocating, did you?

But okay, plot-wise, how could they move from mlvn to byler after such a big love confession? I know we can say it was weird or forced or just copy-pasted from what will said earlier, but i'm sure most casual viewers loved it and found it super romantic.

Unless they open s5 with a honest conversation between mlvn that ends in a breakup, i just don't see that relationship ending at all, and even if that happened i doubt there would be a way to develop byler in a satisfying way.

Alternatively the most i could imagine is mlvn break up whenever in s5 and then at the very end we have byler touching hands during an emotional conversation or sharing a long look and a smile.

What do you think?

Hey!

The framing at the end gives me hope too, but then I think about if they’re just oblivious to the implications that shot has or if its intentional queerbating.

I think if they’re going to do byler in s5, the only way they can explain that love confession is that everything Mike said to El, he meant about Will. It would be the only convincing way to explain to casual viewers why it wasn’t genuine, and even then it still wont be a great way to handle that, and i’m not even sure they’ll be able to handle ANY of the relationships well anymore. So much was under developed and not given the development it needed in s4, like barely anyone had any development… It’d also be the only way i’d be okay with byler happening in s5 now, because Mike saying his life started the day he met El, which was when Will WAS MISSING is such a horrible thing to say about your best friend. It’s so cruel. And Mike only saying he loves her because she’s dying and Will encourages him to? She deserves better, and if Mike is being genuine in that speech, then Will deserves better too. And Mike deserves better than his character arc being reduced to simply a boyfriend.

I don’t know how they’ll handle things in s5 at all.I could also see them leaving the whole thing ambiguous for both ships so they never have to address anything bc they seem to like doing that - and if they did that i’d lose my fucking mind!!

I hope we get the intricate byler development and m!leven closure i thought s4 would bring, in s5. I hope if they do do byler in s5, they do it right, and fully. But i’m not confident they will anymore. I hope we get a proper coming out from Will, a love confession from Mike, and apology to Will, and explain of what Mike’s been dealing with, healthy closure for mike & el, etc, but maybe thats just wishful thinking. I don’t even know if they’d fix mike & el’s relationship if byler wasn’t canon…

Thanks for the ask! I hope you’re well! xx

[thebrokengate]

I'm 99% confident that Byler will happen but when i look around me and realize that my irls do not even think of it as a possibility it makes me doubt. Do you also have moments like that?

I don't talk to anyone irl about Stranger Things, but I do have another online friend I talk to about it who is out of fandom. I've shown him a lot of the evidence, and he does agree that they should go with Byler as well, but he is also a lot more pessimistic than me and doesn't think it will happen. I do have days where I doubt myself, but those come fewer now after Vol 2.

I want to make a post on this at some point (maybe tomorrow perhaps or Monday depending on how things go) with examples, but I really don't think they would introduce this style of love triangle at the forefront if they aren't going to go through with Byler. A short rundown: there's two types of commonly used love triangles I've seen predominantly in media, one like the Steve/Nancy/Jonathan love triangle that started this season and one like the El/Mike/Will love triangle that was also forefronted this season. The Steve/Nancy/Jonathan love triangle will likely end in J*ncy because in the few love triangles I've seen that are like their season 4 love triangle, the person in the middle still remains with the person they were with originally when the love triangle started, and this kind of love triangle is one where both love interests have been given a full-blown romantic chance. The El/Mike/Will love triangle will likely end in Byler because only one side of the triangle has been given a full-blown romantic chance thus far, and this type of love triangle, in any film I've seen up to this point, ends with the person in the middle ending up with the person they haven't given a full-blown romantic chance to yet. This is how the first love triangle of Steve/Nancy/Jonathan also ended, with Nancy giving Jonathan a full-blown romantic chance when he hadn't been given one yet. Love triangles typically have a pattern like this in a narrative. I also don't think they would display Will's pain over his love for Mike like this if they weren't planning to make a satisfying conclusion where he ends up with Mike because A) they're not adding new characters so there would be no new love interest and B) displaying a character's pain so strongly serves a narrative purpose. One of the times I can think of this happening is the Bill/Bev/Ben love triangle in IT where, in Chapter Two, we're met with a flashback of Ben crying as he walks away from Bill and Bev who are talking in the field. Pennywise also tortures Ben when he shapeshifts into her, calling him names, and telling him Bev would never love him. But after all the pain Ben goes through, he ends up in a romantic relationship with Bev in the end. (Lmao that was basically a big chunk of my post already here, but I'll expand more on that at a later date)

So, I wouldn't doubt too much. Your irls likely either don't watch the show too closely or are blinded too much by heteronormative thinking. This is also where most of the bad takes from Reddit come from as well. Even face value tells us that Melvin at least is not working out because El doesn't need him (the script also says this very directly), the monologue did nothing (least of all save the world), and Mike can't give El the love she needs because he's treating her as a superhero rather than a person with powers (the contrast in Max treating her as just an ordinary girl with powers - "you have superpowers, what's the worst that could happen?" and the contrast as well with Will where he jokes about how El could use her powers to make them all super rich, but still including her as a person in their plans, whereas Mike continuously refers to her as a superhero or even Superman and displays feelings of inferiority). These are things that most audiences won't fully see on their first watch or two until they start digging into it. Just because you're digging, it doesn't mean it's not there. Paleontologists never would've found dinosaur bones by staring at the grass.

A good portion of the general audience by now has noticed a difference in Milkvan, but some of them tend to point fingers in the wrong direction - for example, blaming Finn's acting and saying he's a bad actor for not portraying Mike as being in love with El, rather than questioning Mike as a character and all his weird actions as of late. Another half of the audience does understand though that their relationship is breaking down. Sometimes things don't click for people initially or sometimes ever, and the ones that it never clicks for and they can never see the possibility of Megalodon not being endgame, are most of the time people who choose not to see it, and some of them will make up the most ridiculous excuses for it of all time. I've seen them. It could be any number of reasons why your irls don't see it, but the important thing is that you do and your media literacy is great. Sorry this got so long, lol. But thank you for reading, and good luck. <3

[itsryuworld]

so mike loves eleven but he's in love with will, right?

i've seen so many post about it and i have to agree with it. i do believe mike loves eleven in a platonic way but not in a romantic way. we've seen the differences between m*lvn and byler so many times and that's pretty clear now. i'll go long here, so i'm sorry!

mike loves eleven because he idealize her as a superhero. he thinks she's awesome (bc he's a nerd) and he always talks about her powers to point it out. mike says she's de "most incredible person in the world" because of her powers, not as a person herself.

when eleven didn't had her powers in s4, mike seems to be scared of her when she defends against angela. she was violent and mike was scared of what she did. she wasn't "awesome" to him in that moment. he never tried to comfort her or said something to make her feel better bc without her powers she's not a superhero, she's a monster and mike doesn't like her at all.

in s1 mike took care of her and ofc he was worried once he knew some "bad men" were chasing her (same bad men could've done something to will, btw), but he never seemed romantically interested in her. the point of their interactions was her powers and how she could helped them to find will (he even said "she's a weapon" in that exact words). again, mike was amaze with eleven's powers, not her.

mike always put himself as inferior when he's talking with eleven, or about her. meanwhile she's awesome and a superhero, an incredible person… he's just some random nerd, a bullied middle schooler. that clearly means he doesn't think eleven and him are in the same page. she's better than him bc she has powers.

so, knowing that we can agree that mike idealize her and that's what he loves about her the most. when it comes to real life, mike doesn't like who she is. when max was trying to help her to find herself without mike or hopper's influence, mike was upset bc that would break his fantasy into something he can't control and eleven wouldn't be the person he wants but the person she really is.

and we know by now that they can't understand each other. everytime mike tries to explain her something, eleven doesn't get it. i really doubt eleven understood something about romance back then. in s1, eleven asked mike if he would be like her brother, why would she date her brother? their transition was weird af. mike might think dating a superhero is cool, but eleven didn't know about that. they weren't on the same page since the beginning.

on contrast with that, mike and will relationship is deeply bonded, they know each other since forever and are comfortable with each other. they're similar and share hobbies too.

since episode 1, we clearly see the difference between byler and the rest of the party. will refused to lie and told mike it was a seven. and later on, mike claims that he's the only one who cares about will, and decides to go to the woods to find him even when he supposed to wait at home. this parallels m*lvn in s2 when mike claims eleven's dead and never tries to go outside and look for her. mike, in the bottom of his mind, knows that eleven doesn't need him to be safe, but he knows will needs him so mike is determinate to find him no matter what. so, eleven is a superhero and can take care of herself, but will isn't, so he must save him, right?

mike knows will needs him, he tries to get will back with that scene in the shed. mike talks about the day they met each other, claims that asked him to be friends was the "best thing he ever done" and will claims that mike is the only one who treats him normal when everybody else was babying him. in the halloween scene they promised each other to be "crazy together" so, they're in the same page. they need each other in order to be happy. they understand each other.

when will was possessed by the shadow monster, mike told him that he could be like a spy for them, but when eleven spied on him in s3 he was upset to her. mike trust will even if he was possessed and he was scared at the idea of something could happen to him, but in s3 mike didn't trust eleven could save the world again on her own. he didn't trust in his superhero girlfriend, why? do mike trust his possessed boyfriend instead?

mike was the one to initiate the "crazy together" moment in s2 and then, in s3 mike tries to use it with eleven with the "blank makes you crazy" scene. that proves that mike sees that as a romantic thing. will understands, but eleven doesn't.

in s4, mike argue that he says "i love you" to eleven when she calls him out for not say it, and they had a fight about it. they can't communicate. later on, mike apologizes with will; "i didn't say it" and mike answers "you didn't have to" proving that they don't need to talk to understand each other. mike apologizes to will, not eleven. mike knew he was wrong and tries to make up with will.

in s4, mike pointed it out that meet eleven was "dumb nerd luck". this contrasts with the first day at kindergarten when mike approaches will in the swings bc they were both alone. mike decides to go to will and ask him to be friends, but he didn't decides to met eleven. mike was attached to will since their first met bc he was his first friend ever. mike was attached to eleven bc she was in danger and she needed someone. you notice the difference, right?

mike sees will as a person, but sees eleven as a superhero. mike sees will as an equal, but he sees eleven as a superior person to him. in his mind, eleven is amazing bc of her powers but will is amazing just bc he's will, he's his friend.

we can see it when they talk:

"you can't let those mouth breathers ruin you (ruin us)" "you're the most incredible person in the world" "you're my superhero"

"we'll go crazy together" "i think we should work together, i think it'll be easier if we're a team"

whenever mike talks about eleven it's always eleven by her own, but the moment that mike is talking to will it's always "them" "together" as one, as a romantic thing. that's clear when we see all that things mike didn't to for eleven, but for will:

mike went to the woods to find will and still believed he was alive even when they saw will's corpse, but didn't do it for eleven and claims her dead even if she gave him hints that she was out there.

eleven escaped the upside down by her own, but will was saved by mike who found him hiding behind the ladders in halloween.

when eleven "dumped his ass" mike wasn't in the bridge of depression, he was in the basement complaining about her behavior. but when he had a fight with will, mike biked in the middle of pouring rain to the byers's to apologizes to will. then, he inmmediatly went to castle byers to find him.

when mike was being an asshole in cali and will claims it was his fault, mike assure him it wasn't and told him hawkins wasn't the same without him. mike comforts him bc he knows will didn't do anything wrong, but he really never did that for eleven and she leaves lenora believing mike thinks of her as a monster.

the "crazy together" scene, the physical contact and lip glances, the heart-to-heart talks, the "we won't let him" scene, "are you okay, are you hurt?", even the "hawkins isn't the same without you" it suppose to be ROMANTIC MOMENTS but mike was there with WILL not ELEVEN.

mike loves the idea of eleven being a superhero, that's what he loves of her. but if you put her powers out of the table, what's left? they don't talk about themselves or their relationship. we haven't seen that. they were snogging and disrespecting hopper all summer, they were ignoring their friends, eleven was sending him letters full of lies, mike signed the letters with "from mike" not "love, mike", they had a fight in lenora about him not saying or writing "love, mike" and am i suppose to think they're a happy couple? uh, i don't think so.

i do believe they care for each other, i think they would be a fantastic duo of friends, but a romantic couple? no way. mike is platonic in love with her bc she's a superhero in his mind, bc she has powers, but doesn't care about her as a person, mike doesn't know her. in fact, he's scare of the idea of eleven being herself bc that might means he can't control her anymore and his "perfect straight boyfriend act" would fall apart.

on the other hand, that would've means that mike has to face his feelings for will. all this time, mike has been projecting his romantic feelings for will in eleven, bc she's a "acceptable version" of him. i mean, at this point is obvious that eleven and will are like twins, they really look alike and in s4 she wore his clothes too. mike lost will and found eleven, so he was projecting his feeling on her. in s1 he even told eleven he glad she come back home, his home? just like he did in s2 when he told will that and then we got the "crazy togther" scene?

so, yes. mike loves eleven, but that doesn't mean he's in love with her. i don't know yet if he's aware of that or not, but he always has been in love with will, even before eleven came to the picture. mike is scare of this feelings so he's trying to convice himself that he loves eleven in a romantic way, but he doesn't. mike is in love with will and he's always protective over him, he's always making romantic every interaction they had bc he doesn't think of him as a friend. and then, mike tries to do that with eleven, but she doesn't understand him. mike and will are on the same page, they understand each other without any talk.

i can't wait the moment these three kiddos understand this and became an amazing trio we deserve! eleven and will being a powerful twins, yes please. mike being the party leader we missed and the great friend he is, elmike being the chaotic and supportive duo of friends, and ofc, byler being the power couple they're meant to be.

thanks for coming to my ted talk, again.