#byleth and rhea are the only two characters here that I dislike

[faroreswinds]

Tumblr had originally deleted my answer to this ask here. At the time, I was really pissed and just throw out an answer because I had spent a good hour writing it up thoughtfully.

But now let’s try this again, with proper answers this time. However, these will still be short because I have lost the energy to give a more thorough answer. This isn’t nearly as nicely written as my original answer was. 

It's not supposed to be propaganda.

Edelgard’s speech and general rhetoric is propaganda. 

Propaganda- information, especially of a biased or misleading nature, used to promote or publicize a particular political cause or point of view.

This isn’t even really controversial. 

Not sure what she means. Deny the people power? 

Nobility came from Nemesis, not the Church. Also, the Church was not involved with making the Alliance at all. No idea why she mentioned war here. 

This is the only point that may have some truth, but any organization needs money. Governments tax, businesses put costs on goods and services, and non-profit organizations get donations.

And if this is an issue, the leader of the church Edelgard does endorse does actually care about living in wealth, so she’s being pretty hypocritical here. 

Now we can’t be sure what she actually tells Claude since the game only tells us she sent a letter and doesn’t tell us the contents of said letter:

But Claude in this route barely ever says anything about the Church or Dimitri up until this point. In fact, he only says these two things:

Even Judith calls him out on suddenly buying into the Empire’s words without so much as questioning it. 

And the Empire clearly didn’t elaborate on what their words because Claude is surprised Rhea is a dragon. So he apparently never asked any more questions. 

Claude is planning to bring down the Church even before he talks to Edelgard. See: Azure Gleam.

This is never stated. This is only assumed if you believe he always wanted to kill Rhea himself or something. He only ever asks if Dimitri will continue to buddy up with the Church. 

Claude cares more about gaining the upper hand against the Empire so that his nation gains influence and power. 

And he is also super willing to betray Edelgard too:

In Houses, Claude wanted to depose Rhea as well but only didn't because Houses!Edelgard was a worse threat (Hopes!Edelgard is tolerable to Claude), because (of avatar-worship) Byleth is going to succeed Rhea and because Rhea goes through a bit of development due to her time as Edelgard's prisoner which made her more reasonable.

This is never stated. What happens is you gain support points if you suggest if he hopes Rhea is dead. 

This only implies he disliked Rhea, not that he wanted to kill her himself. He even wonders what a world would look like without Rhea. 

And Claude's criticisms of the Church never change. There is no moment Verdant says that Claude was wrong about the xenophobia stemming from the Church. He just learns Rhea's backstory, that's it, and in a support with Cyril, he learns that maybe it's possible to talk to Rhea.

He says this before they even talk to Rhea or rescue her. He starts to realize that the school, ran by the Central Church, actually had all sort of people there. 

Here he starts to realize that maybe it’s not the teachings. Again, we haven’t even rescued Rhea yet at this point. 

And then after rescuing Rhea, he realized his dream was going to take more work than just winning the war. 

Not to mention that we get Church NPCs being racist in Three Houses 

Everyone side has a racist, not necessarily all the religious ones.

or other NPCs pointing out how the Church lets the nobility do what they want

You mean how the Church is strong-armed by the nobles? Either the Church is too strong, or not strong enough. Which is it?

Do you choose to ignore the criticisms made against the Church? Do you find them all invalid? There are plenty of characters that agree with what Claude says about the Church including Dimitri, Lorenz, Marianne, Hapi. Holst etc.

No. There are some legit criticisms. What I want is proof. Characters can say all they want, but if the game contradicts them or doesn’t support their claims, it means nothing to me. 

Like, the Church sent assassins. And we have proof they did. Boom, that’s a legit criticism. 

The Church keeping the borders closed? Uuuhhh, I need evidence of that first. Which there isn’t any. At all. In fact, it’s the opposite. The Church is AG was rebuilding a Duscur town without even making the residents convert. 

I don’t take characters at their word. Especially if the game contradicts them.

[furry-emblem]

You know what, after talking about how biases and stuff mess with 3H discourse, I'm going to go over my biases and personal experiences with each major faction leader because I feel like it. I don’t really want people arguing with me on these, but I would like to hear other people describing their experiences with these characters because that’s always interesting to read about. I'm listing the characters in order of how much I liked them.

Byleth

Also known as erotica, keyboard smash, Sothis, another keyboard smash, BoobBoob, and Boobama. I really dislike them. I’ve never been particularly fond of silent or self-insert protagonists. At best, they signal to me that the game isn’t going to bother with its story or character writing (and that’s fine when that’s the case), while at worst, it’s the writers taking the most important character in the story and then throwing their hands up and saying “we don’t need to write this one.” Byleth feels like the ladder and it’s to the detriment of pretty much everyone around them. Like, even considering that silent protagonists are supposed to be characters that the player projects onto, Byleth doesn’t do a good job at this because there’s enough canonical descriptions of them that you can’t really roleplay, but there’s so little going on that they don’t stand on their own two feet. So it’s like having a piece of cardboard dictate the fate of the country. They also primarily function as a wall for characters to exposition dump their backstories onto, which isn’t very interesting to watch. Like, 3H would have been better off without Byleth in it. 0/10.

Rhea

I just haven't had the chance to see a lot of her stuff, so I think I'm missing some of the stuff that makes people like her (and I'd prefer to not have that spoiled for me). Haven't seen her supports or the Church Route, but she just hasn't left me with a good impression. I don't like how possessive she gets of Byleth. Like, it creeps me out a little. I'm also a bit disappointed that you never get to play as her. I want the pope to bitch slap people (except not my people). I remember her being an antagonist in CF felt kind of forced to me when I first played because her reactions felt a bit silly. The problem wasn't whether they were justified or not, the problem was lack of context given and the fact that she was saying stuff like "You will BURN in the PITS OF HELL" while standing perfectly still and making this face >:(. And I just couldn't take that seriously for whatever reason because it felt cheesy and I didn't really understand what was going on. It also soured any endearment Rhea showed towards Byleth to me on future routes because her actions in CF gave me the impression of her being obsessive and controlling of Byleth. Like, she acted entitled to their loyalty, expected them to be something they never asked for, and flipped the fuck out when they rejected. It reminded me a lot of some abuse I've gone through and it made me dislike the character. Now that I have more context on the character, I get why she reacted so suddenly and violently because CF kinda threw all of her triggers at her. It feels like she dug her grave in that route, but she dug it in a way that resembles a Greek Tragedy more than anything else. My second route was Claude's route, which thoroughly disappointed me in terms of its writing. When Rhea was exposition dumping her backstory, I was like "I'm boooored," so that really didn't help my opinion of the character. I also don't really like how she gets damsels in three out of four routes. I still don't actively like the character very much because she left a really sour taste in my mouth, but I understand that I'm missing information and that there are reasons to like her. I'm open to learning more about her, but she just really rubs me the wrong way.

Yuri

I never finished Cindered Shadows and I have no real opinion on Yuri. I thought he was a girl when I first saw him and I think he's fun to play as in gameplay, so I guess there's that. I don't really see myself replaying Cindered Shadows if I even finish it because it lacks a lot of the major things I liked from 3H.

Seteth

Does he even get to count? Like, he's not in charge and Rhea should've probably been the leader of Silver Snow. Haven't played that route yet. I like Seteth. He's got good dad energy and also he's my wife (specifically in Verdent Wind). He's got good vibes. Also, if you kill Flayn in Crimson Flower, his English voice acting when he's like "Flayn Noooo" gets to me. I still really like Seteth. A solid 8/10 for me.

Dmitri

I wasn't following Three Houses advertising at all, so I didn't know anything about anyone going in. I was originally just going to skip him entirely because he looked boring and had shitty hair. So I did his route last. Partially out if curiosity for the character, partially because I might as well do every major route since I'd already done Claude and Edelgard, partially to get to know some of the Blue Lions, and partially because some of Edelgard's backstory is only revealed in this route and I was curious about that. Dmitri's route definitely has the best writing out of any of the routes. I really like how personal the route is and how much it focuses on how one specific event impacted all of the characters in it. There are some big problems I have with the route and Dmitri, like how the game uses psychosis to represent Dmitri being murdery and how him changing his mind felt more like Byleth's decision than his own due to their conversation being pretty bad. But overall, he has the best writing. I'd strongly recommend playing through his route if you haven't just because the writing's rather good there. The reason why he's ranked below Claude and Edelgard, however, is pretty simple: I just don't vibe with him. Like, the hero archetype bores the hell out of me, even when it is subverted like it is here. I also just didn't relate to the character on really any level while I did with Claude and Edelgard. The amount of Edelgard slander in his name also annoys me, but I don't think it really impacts how much I like Dmitri. He's a well written character that I just don't vibe with. I also remember his death in Verdant Wind and being like “wtf was that??” Like, the writers killed him offscreen.. twice. In the same route.

Claude 

I really enjoyed Claude as a character. He left a good first impression on me and I almost picked him for my first playthrough because he’s hot and sassy. Two good traits for any character. I ended up picking Edelgard, though, and he left a good impression on me during CF. I like that he held the alliance together and had a contingency plan for if he lost that battle. When I played his route, I ended up going Hard Mode NG+ Casual and I stuck everyone on a dragon. I did find it funny that throughout the school phase, Claude learns bow stuff repeatedly, then in one of the last months, he went up to me and was like “hey, can you start teaching me in axe and flying?” Which he had nothing in either. Then timeskip happens and he comes waltzing in on a dragon. Claude is where all the good memes in the fandom go. That said, I really disliked his route because Claude felt like an afterthought in it (because he literally was). I don’t like that I got out of the route and it felt like I didn’t know as much more about the character going out than I did going in. Some of that is because I didn’t see a ton of his supports, which is where pretty much all of the character work is. I like how Claude is open minded and actively tries to seek out the truth. So, overall, I found his route a bit disappoint but I still really like him because he’s a fun character.

Edelgard

I fucking love Edelgard. She was my first pick and therefore the character that introduced me to the game, and by extension, the series of Fire Emblem. I picked her because she’s pretty, she looked ready to fistfight god from the word go, and she seemed like the mascot of the game so I figured the writers might put a bit extra effort into her route (they didn’t, rip). My very first playthrough was actually a Normal/Classic run, but I had to abandon the run because literally everyone died four hours into the save (I swapped to Normal/Casual). Edelgard ended up carrying me through my first playthrough. I stuck her on a dragon and she killed literally everyone and everything. In my most recent playthrough of the game, I did CF and made her an archer mage dancer for the memes and that was also a ton of fun to play with. Her gameplay feel had a role in me liking her (like, Dmitri is also very powerful, but it was my third playthrough and I knew what I was doing better by then, so him being just as OP as Edelgard didn’t really influence my opinion on him as much as it did her). 

Besides the gameplay, Edelgard’s probably the major character that I relate to the most. Every character on this list (except maybe Byleth or Yuri, I know literally nothing about Yuri tho) has experience with trauma and is coping with it in some way. Edelgard copes by villainizing herself and shutting off her emotions, but despite that, she’s still a low-empathy person who’s still very compassionate person who cares about others and is trying to do the right thing. She also generally tries to express some amount of compassion to her enemies, even if it’s little more than saying “it sucks that Dmitri had to die.” She’s not as open-minded or as truth-seeking as Claude is, but she still tries to keep herself open to other viewpoints and will readily accept any she deems as valid at a moment’s notice. I just really like that about her because I share a lot of those traits in common with her. I also like the idea of her being someone who’s willing to do evil things to bring good to the world. That’s not something you normally get in a protagonist and I think that’s a cool idea. 

I still found her route to be very awkward, especially with no context. Like, I missed the line where Edelgard’s like “yeah, btw, I’m the Flame Emperor,” so I was just wondering what happened there. It’s an anticlimactic way to end the main plot of the first half of the game. I also didn’t really get Rhea’s angle at all. So the route just felt a lot like “I guess I’m doing this now??” In other routes, I found her deaths to be very hard hitting. The death in Verdant Wind only really got me because I really liked Edelgard and she was my original student and I could feel how much she wanted to make her future a reality and how her failing meant all of those sacrifices she made and the evils she’d done would now all be for nothing. I get that impression with Azure Moon’s ending too. 

Most of my appreciation for the character does come from her support conversations. I like how her chain with Bernie has her trying to learn how to not scare her off. Her interactions with Dorothea in their support chain are kind of sad because Dorothea is trying to show her admiration and love for Edelgard in a way that makes sense to her but then Edelgard’s low view of herself causes her to reject the offer. I really liked her Manuela support too (haven’t seen Hanneman’s but I’ve heard that it’s good). I like how with Manuela, Edelgard learns why people are religious and she that being religious doesn’t make you weak. I like her Linhart support where he calls her out for trying to dictate his life and she responds by trying to overhaul some of her own systems and assumptions about him, which leads to her giving him a role to the empire that also properly accommodates for his needs. I like how with Ferdinand’s supports, he has to learn to let go of their rivalry, but once that does happen, Edelgard takes into account his ideas and roles with them. I think it’s funny that she and Hubert flirt with each other by sending each other credible death threats. Edelgard just has a lot of very good supports. Don’t get me wrong, Claude and Dmitri also have supports that are good (I thought Claude’s support chain with Petra was cute and I really like Dmitri’s support chain with Flayn), but Edelgard’s supports go a long way to paint her as someone who is flawed but still really admirable.

Edelgard is definitely one of my favorite fictional characters, and I’d love to see more characters like her in the future.

[butwhatifidothis]

I mean, on that same twitter post I mention we have BOTH sides (edelstans and edelcritics/whatever you wanna call em) calling eachother fascists for liking/disliking edelgard. Theres also the dude that posted cropped Edelgard r*pe porn in the comments so...I wouldn't exactly call either side better. At best, I'd say the Edelcritics that hate edelgard to THAT extent kinda went quiet while the edelstans that SUPER like edelgard got louder. You can find the shittier Edelgard haters (I say hater because they legit hate her ass and say legitimately sexist shit in regards to her) if you looked for it or stumbled upon it.

Also, I feel like you're taking it way to seriously by going "Yeah but one side has people who HATE Rhea and Dimitri so they are the worse ones since they want to put down people with mental illness!" When Rhea and Dimitri AREN'T people, they're lines on a screen. They don't even have any stated specific mental illness and rhea's mental illness is just going as berserk as every other dragon in the series except the thing that's caused her to go berserk is Byleth's betrayal (or just it's just a thing that happens in the normal church route for x reasons because whats a fire emblem game without a berserk dragon? And while we're at it, lets make the fact she went berserk turn some members of the church into dragonish monsters through dragon blood because why not!)

And Dimitri's is further bogged down by the fact that during the church route he ends up becoming a voice in *byleth's* head and is a ghost??? Or something? (It's been two years and I still don't know what that was all about)

I'm not even going to TRY and wrap my head around the implications that IS were going for his FEH story where he talks to the literal goddess of the dead and another undead character who talks about the people hes sees. Are they trying to say that Dimitri is ACTUALLY haunted???

Then we have Edelgard who was tortured at a young age and had her siblings die presumanly yet her only real issue (outside of lacking a brain and being paranoid) is that shes uwu scared of wats!!! Owo isn't that qwuirky! Shes got twauma and twust isswues!

God. You can REALLY tell they had trouble with consistently writing the routes AND making it so the characters make any sense on other routes.

The people who did that shit are horrible - that's not to say that they are as prevalent of a fandom problem as the other, however, which is much of the point I was getting at.

Yes, both sides have done some terrible shit. Not gonna deny that. Also, again, not about to sit here and say that both sides are equally committing these sort of shitty things as each other. Just because you can find this shit on "the other side" doesn't automatically mean that both sides are actually just as bad as the other. You point to one post as proof that both sides are equally as bad as the other - I can assure you, the stuff that I and others talk about when we say "Edelstans have knee-capped the fandom" is far, far more widespread than that.

And "one side has people who HATE Rhea and Dimitri so that are the worse ones since they want to put down people with mental illness" look. When people come in, look at mentally ill characters, and say independent of anything else "yeah, they should be put down cuz they're too dangerous specifically because of their mental illness" and they mean that with 100% sincerity, am I not supposed to get, y'know, a little creeped out by that?

Like, for another example, there's a difference between someone saying "Yeah I don't care about Byleth x Student ships because in the end I like their dynamic and they're not real" and someone saying "Well teachers dating their students isn't that bad of an issue anyway so who cares." One is acknowledging that this is fiction and that doesn't necessarily reflect on one's real life opinions and enjoying it as fiction, and the other... is the real life opinion, being applied to the fiction to justify it.

Also, "rhea's mental illness is just going berserk as every other dragon in the series except the thing that's caused her to go berserk is Byleth's betrayal" um and also the fact that the Nabatean genocide is being recreated. She and her family are being chased out of their homes by someone aiming to kill them with the mutilated remains of her mother - that's Zanado. That's what Nemesis did to the Nabateans. That's what Byleth and EdeIgard are doing to Rhea, Seteth, and Flayn on CF. "the thing that caused her to go berserk is" the recreation of the eradication of her race, forcing her to relive it.

Also, I'll give you that saying we need to "put dimitri down" is shitty, I can't say rhea is in the same camp. In two routes she goes berserk but for two different reasons, and in golden deer and blue lions the only 'mental illness' she has is being stuck in the "denial" stage of grief for a million billion years but otherwise shes just hunky dory by the time the game ends (except in golden deer because she tanked some missiles.)

“she goes berserk for two different reasons” yes and one of them is the recreation of the genocide of her people, banishment from her home of Garreg Mach, and the killing/exilement of the last remaining family near her pushing her past the brink and breaking her mind. Y’know. What happens in CF. We can speculate what irl equivalent best fits her, but to sit here and say “yeah no Rhea was pretty much completely fine throughout the game” is not only ignoring the game, but how the fandom itself treats Rhea as a whole, which is saying that she along with Dimitri should be “put down” because they’re too mentally unsound to be safe around others.

I hope I don’t come off as too rude or anything, but yeah

Edit: Very recently (so not something nonnie could have known about so nothin’ against them but yeah), there was someone unironically saying that Edelgard’s war was a good thing because in real life violence must be used to enact change and believing otherwise is idealistic, using real life examples to showcase this point, which further shows off what I mean by some questionable things being said by Edelstans

[lananiscorner]

1, 9, 10?

Thank you for your ask, anon!

I am going to assume this is about FE3H, since you didn't specify a fandom, so here goes:

What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get?

Ferdinand/Hubert: I'm sorry, but I just don't see it. These two barely get along until their final support, when suddenly they become all blushy about each other. It doesn't help that I really like Ferdinand/Dorothea. I also have a hard time picturing Hubert having the time, energy or inclination to pursue anyone but Edelgard, since he is pretty much the one doing all the behind the scenes work for the Empire and is stubbornly devoted to Edelgard.

9. Most disliked character(s)? Why?

If we're only talking playable characters, Manuela and Hilda. I have warmed up to them somewhat since I first started playing the game last year, but I still like them less than everybody else. Hilda reminds me of every slacker/dead weight that I have ever had the displeasure to work with on any school/work team, and Manuela is a perfect example of how nothing is a greater turn-off than desperation. She also meets the frustrating bar of being aware of the flaws that are holding her back, but never even taking a single step to rectify them, and if she's not willing to put in the work, why should I?

If we are including non-playable characters: all of the Slithers. They are a true Diabolus Ex Machina--overpowered bad guys that appear tacked on and literally only seem to be there so the the player can have a hate sink that detracts from Edelgard's conquest. Think of how much more engaging the plot would have been if it had not been the Slithers trying to destroy Rhea and experimenting on the Ordelias and Hresvelgs, but rather a fanatical splinter cell of the church! Think of how much more sense everything would have made! But nooooooo, we get a random cult of ancient, butthurt idiots who have nukes and the ability to take on another person's voice and appearance, but can't manage to kill a single dragon lady in 1000 years. What a complete waste of narrative space.

10. Most disliked arc? Why?

Um... on a broad scale, Crimson Flower is my least favorite of the 4 routes, because it hands every character except Hubert an idiot ball and then just watches them kick it around the courtyard like the least enthusiastic 5th graders during PE that you've ever seen. Everybody just up and forgets part 1 happened, nobody asks about the Slithers or the Flame Emperor or the fact that your house leader literally ordered her men to kill you, and it is by far the route where recruitment makes the least sense, especially for characters like Ingrid. Not to mention it ends with Byleth's magical pacemaker disappearing... and yet somehow they still live? And you can still romance Sothis? What? It just makes no sense. You can really tell that they didn't originally plan for this route and only developed it once people on the dev team started complaining "but I wanted to walk with Edelgard ;A;"

On a finer scale, I despise how Patricia's arc was left so unresolved. How involved was she really in the Tragedy? Did she know they would also try to kill Dimitri or did Cornelia neglect to mention that part? What happened to her after? I'd assume the Slithers killed her, but it would have been nice to have some info about it in-game.

I also hate that we never hear about Edelgard's siblings anywhere except in her C and C+ supports with Byleth--not even her dad mentions them when he speaks of the trauma she endured. Considering that imperial nobility all live in Enbarr, you'd think at least someone would mention 10 dead imperial children, especially if eight of them were before her in the line of succession, but nope. It makes them feel like a badly tacked on backstory for players to sob about.

[kendrixtermina]

The “Genocidal Edelgard” Shallowtake

I was not going to make a post about this because it’s most likely futile and not going to convince anyone nor do I believe in dinifying the purity police with attention, but maybe it will let some ppl know that they dont have to let themselves be shamed for liking the wrong video game character

Whatever might have been the case in the distant past when Nemesis was around, by the “present day” the Nabateans are not at all some commonly oppressed stereotyped minority - the setting is chock full of characters that fit that bill a lot better like Dedue or Cyril. Characters that are ordinary humans not magic dragons. 

And even that is more founded on general purpose xenophobia than from the specific, relatively new early modernity construct of racism. (the dedue situation probably comes the closest)

Sure, Seteth and Flays have to hide from their old enemy the Agarthans, I see how some might find that relatable etc. but most of the population isn’t aware that they exist at all. They hold high status positions, are worshipped by the local religion and Rhea all but rules the entire continent (and says so herself to Byleth in that speech about how she was just “ruling this wayward country in your stead”, “you” being Sothis) - though that is mostly Rhea’s doing of which Seteth and Flayn are relatively innocent. 

The interviews pretty much confirmed that the Nabateans constituted the local aristocracy and that many humans genuinely saw the Elites as liberators - though there was definitely also an element of ppl going around killing random Nabateans to gain superpowers, not to speak of Nemesis’ very obvious very unambiguous mass murder. Not wanting to be ruled over by foreign powers is understandable, though obviously killing them all down to the last civilian was just flat out evil - its certainly not a simple situation, we can all agtree Nemesis & the Agarthans were evil but there is no clear defined good guy. 

There are historical conflicts you could compare this to, perhaps some conflicts in Africa or the middle eastwhere different groups took turns being the ruling class after the latest war,  but it’s not at all like the modern USA or early modernity colonialism, and forcing every real or, in this case, imagined scenario inherently dependent of fantasy elements, into this one framework from the present or near past isn’t conductive to understanding at all. 

And in the present day, by the time Edelgard is alive, we are talking about three specific people that she has good reason to dislike individually. Not any sort of group at all. 

She calls Rhea a cruel beast because that’s all she’s ever seen Rhea to be. She’s the shadow tyrant who rules her world, who created the crappy world Edelgard grew up in. It’s no different Cubans thiking badly of the castros after suffering through famines - or, no need for such extreme examples really, ppl call their least favorite politicians monsters all the time. 

She’s wrong to assume that Seteth & Flayn are wholly on board with this, but on the other hand, it’s not at all a far-fetched assumption to make: They hold high positions in the church though they ostensimbly just appreared out of nowhere one day. Do you have to be an evil bigot to assume that the brother and right hand man to the tyrannical god-queen is condoning & supporting her actions?

The truth is of course that underneath her pseudo-parental facade Rhea is sort of a scared girl, very lonely, very afraid, and ashamed, in a shallow, childish way, for “breaking the rules” just because they are rules. She says she can’t trust anyone, that she feels lonely & isolated... and while no one can blame her for distrusting humans after the slaughter of her people, but the reason she can’t trust Seteth is that she’s keeping her bad deeds secret from him. He wasn’t there the whole time, he just showed up a few decades earlier. 

She sees herself only as filling out for Sothis and doesn’t quite grasp that she’s in charge, very much a follower personality bent on stasis & regularity. 

Is Edelgard obliged to try & unravel the complex psychology of the tyrant who rules her home to correctly deduce why she would deceive even her own family? By all intents and purposes, Edelgard is the one getting rid of an oppressive government that doesn’t let ordinary humans let a say at all. A government where ppl of others faiths and nationalities are typically oppressed unless they work directly for the church.

It’s like having a disdain for, say, Ivanka Trump. She holds a high position in her father’s administration despite having no obvious qualifications, she appears to be profiting & making bank from her father’s atrocities, she certainly hasn’t done anything to stop him or disavow him the way that, say, her cousin Mary did - if you suffered under Trump’s regime you’d be very justified in assuming that Invanka is probably a bad person.

Flayn only looks young (She might not if we saw her in other clothes). I mean, Kronya could badly impersonate a schoolgirl. At the very least they’ve supported the regime by refusing to question their own side and they show some however benevolent belief that it is their duty to “guide” the people. Leaving her to the Agarthans is certainly questionable, but no more so than doing it with Rhea herself, under the assumption that she’s guilty and that it’s a sacrifice that will prevent larger chaos. The agarthans had their plan long before they created Edelgard as we know her, and she couldn’t stop their plots all on her own. 

You could say that it’s callous, distasteful or a deal breaker - as the death knight is her direct subordinate & she makes a personal appearance in mask, I would argue that she definitely knew & sanctioned the kidnapping - but she’s no more callous towards Flayn than towards anybody else. 

Of course, that doesn’t mean they’re evil, or that they deserve to die.... and Edelgard would agree with me.  She doing all this to prevent death – flipping the lever on the trolley problem so it crushes one person instead of five so to speak. She always gives her enemies the chance to surrender, unwilling allies the chance to leave, and jails enemies whenever leaving them alive wouldn‘t lead to further death… even the ones she has the most personal reason to hate, like the PM.

As servants of the church who have chosed to back her enemies, she’ll certainly kill them if she has to, but not any more than any other enemy. At no point anywhere in the story does she say anything like that they need to die on principle. Nowhere at all. Indeed there is much evidence to the contrary.

The church paints her as being completely against the religion or even wanting to set herself up as a satanic godess cause it‘s good politics & they don‘t get what she‘s doing – to an extent her own credibility & messaging is compromised by her secretive and at times unscrupulous actions, no one said she was perfect. In truth all she wants is to have the church out of politics, you know, what we have in nearly every modern country outside the vatican and saudi arabia.

You can absolutely let Flayn & Seteth go on CF and there is no word, no fuss about it anywhere. No „make sure to kill em all“ which would certainly be there if the narrative wanted to portray Edelgard that way. It requires the mediation of Byleth as someone they would talk to & not immediately assume the worst of, but, they see the church as the embodymet of all that is good & fighting its enemies as their sacred duty so of course it wouldn‘t be possible for just anyone to talk them down. It‘s framed as Flayn letting Byleth go cause they saved her life once, even if we know from behind the screen that she wasn‘t going to survive a fight to the death against the player-controlled faction.

Heck, even when it comes to Rhea, the one most guilty that Edelgard has the most reason to loathe, she‘s ultimately surprisingly gracious. She gives her the option to surrender – and this is not a lie, she discusses this with Byleth in a lecture question, and seriously ponders the possibility. Here Byleth gets a range of options like „stab her in the back“ and „keep the church under imperial control“ but you know which one nets you the support points? „Strip her of her authority so she can‘t interfere in politics“. She wasn‘t gonna mess with the religious folks & their religion at all, just make it so it‘s separate from government. Rhea could even keep being pope, if she could be satisfied without having complete supreme authority (and ripping her precious artifact out of Byleth‘s chest) – even when she puts her down she‘s not 100% without pity, telling her that „Your duty is done“ (the translators mucked this up)

Couldn‘t be any further from „lets kill them all on principle“.

What really annoys me is how ppl go and twist everything Edelgard says out of context to ascribe a motive to her that just isn’t there.

Common examples:

„If you have Flayn or Seteth fight her she‘ll say they need to die because they‘re nabateans“

Actually what she says is this: „You are a child of the godess. You must not have power over the people!“ Not getting to be privileges rulers anymore =/= being opressed. Stay out of politics =/= Diediedie. Also, this is from the VW/SS boss fight, where they have literally come to get her in her own capital.

„Linhard & Leonie don‘t tell her & hubert about Indech, probably cause he expects that she‘ll go & kill him„

What he actually says is: „Lake Teutates is a place that concerns the saints of the Church of Seiros. It may become bothersome should the two of them find out...“

„It may be bothersome“ as in, „we might get in trouble“, for doing the possibly very inadvisable thing of waltzing into what could possibly be an enemy location to satisfy personal curiosity. If it‘s something related to her agenda she might take over and Linny wouldn‘t get to investigate as he pleases – at very most you might construe it as Linny fearing that they‘ll be accused of consorting with the enemy, but „bothersome“ suggest possible annoyance not imminent murder.

The whole scene ends with Linhard telling Byleth to fill her in later. Doesn‘t sound at all like he expects her to go back with a harpoon.

„She said Claude isn‘t fit to be a ruler cause he‘s a foreigner“

What she actually says: „I understand your ideals are not so far removed from my own. But without knowledge of Fodlan‘s history, I cannot entrust its rule to you“

Now without the additional contexts that Claude won‘t get until after the fight, it might easily feel a bit like the former with the raw spots he‘d have from his backstory, but what she means is that he‘s ignorant of the Agarthan threat – which he is. Edelgard is all for making peace with Almyra and sees fostering isolationism & prejudice as one of the many faults of the church.

Once Claude basically kills Edelgard for information, he winds up having to take care of the storm she had been holding back. But to his credit, he DID „finish the job“ and get the info. But he didn‘t have it at that point.

And I don‘t mean any of this in the least bit as a diss of Claude - He is the smartest character, so there would be no plot if he got easy access to the info.  At this point, they both think they can probably do better, and more importantly, both their backstories have made them so that they won‘t let down their guard far enough to cooperate in this scenario.

That‘s also why the outcome in CF is contingent on Byleth‘s choice. - You‘d sort of have to trust that he will also act so as to minimize casualties.

Very disingenious since many players wouldn‘t necessarily trigger these dialogues.

I guess because Adrestia got a vaguely central-european aesthetic (partially; all the countries are hodgepodge mashups and there’s more than enough spanish or ancient roman vibes there) and central europe existed only for those 12 years of tyranny I guess, even though many other places have had similar BS happening, including the US that delights in making craptons of movies about their faraway victory because their governments haven’t added much of value to the planet as of late. -.- 

Faerghus (vaguely french/ russian - not at all places where nothing bad happened ever) has actually annexed some territory from their northern neighbors in the recent past, not to speak of the whole Duscur atrocity - but no one seems to go around laying that at Dimitri’s feet, because it would be nonsensical - he was a child at the time and as an individual he is super against it and champions a policy of reconcilliation if he gets to rule. after all, there wouldn’t be much of a plot if the characters inherited three perfect faultless problem free countries. 

Edelgard, too, is completely against the previous administration under Duke Aegir (which was in charge during the Bridgid war). She deposed him and is plotting to do the same with Arundel once she can politically afford to do so. For all that one can understand why she would chose the other path  (depending on how much she knows about what Edelgard’s doing and why) it makes all the sense in the world for Petra to support her on CF or if not recruited, because again, she got rid of that previous administration. 

[argent-vulpine]

Down We Go

Fandom: Fire Emblem Three Houses

Rating: G

Characters: Seteth/Byleth

Read it on AO3!

He could not for the life of him figure out what Rhea was planning. Oh, he understood bringing Jeralt back into the fold; he’d heard many stories of the man’s tenure as captain, and with recommendations from those who’d known him, was all too happy to accept his return into the Knights, regardless of his reasons for leaving.

No, the problem Seteth was having was with Rhea’s decision to make the man’s untested, probably under-educated daughter a professor at the academy.

She simply couldn’t be trusted, which was why he had made the decision to keep an eye on her. Whatever Rhea’s reasons were – and she wasn’t sharing them – he needed to be sure that this young woman was trustworthy on his own. So he would stop and check in on her from time to time, listening to the instructions she gave her class, checking on them before and after missions, and even stopping her for chats on free days at the monastery.

He discovered, to his consternation, that she liked to fish. A lot. And that Flayn would frequently join her at the little dock, chatting away while the professor reeled in fish after fish. He knew that she would take her catches up to the dining hall for the kitchens to use, and that sometimes she would join one of the students – whether from her house or another – and cook a special meal to share with the lot.

It was also of note that she enjoyed spending some time in the greenhouse, and wandering the grounds. She would invite people to join her in the sauna – including himself, to his surprise. They said nothing, simply relaxing, and as no one treated her like this was an oddity, he had to assume this was how all her sauna visits went.

The professor liked to run, as well, he learned. It didn’t matter where. From the dormitories to the greenhouse, to the dining hall, through the gardens… it didn’t matter. She simply liked running. He caught her running across the bridge between the monastery and the cathedral in the early mornings, doing laps across the expanse before it was too crowded with people, and found that those she passed were used to this, too, greeting her as she sprinted past.

He was finding out a lot about her, in fact, and not a single shred of it made her any more suspicious. In fact, it would have been doing the opposite, if he still weren’t so bothered by her sudden and inexplicable promotion to professorship.

It wasn’t until the existence of Abyss came to light that he had any reason to suspect her at all.

Except that he’d caught her sneaking out of her room late in the evening, as he was strolling the grounds on the way to the baths, and caught sight of her slipping into a hole in a wall near her room.

Curious, he followed her into the tunnel, knowing where it would lead, but not knowing why she was going, especially at this time of night. After all, the so-called Ashen Wolves were part of her house, now, and allowed to come up to the surface for classes whenever they so desired.

By the time they’d reached the main ‘village center’ of Abyss, Byleth had vanished. He looked for her, trying to stay out of sight of Abyssians who might otherwise dislike his presence, but she was nowhere to be seen. Disgruntled, Seteth returned to the surface and continued on his original path.

--------

He watched her every night for the next two weeks, noting that while she didn’t enter Abyss every night, she did go more often than not.

Seteth did not try to follow her again, not yet, instead waiting to see how long it took before she returned. Some nights it was only an hour or two, other nights she didn’t return until near dawn, when he was yawning and struggling to stay awake.

It was severely affecting his ability to work. He found he was struggling to remain awake in meetings with Rhea and the cardinals, and drifting off in the middle of completing his paperwork. He even managed to miss lunch with Flayn on one occasion, to find her barging in and scolding him for not getting enough rest.

He was determined to get to the bottom of this. If she was up to something suspicious, then he needed to know so that he could report it to Rhea.

Determined, he prepared for another night. This time he would follow her properly. Instead of waiting outside, simply watching the tunnel, he would wait within and keep track of her that way.

--------

It took three attempts before he was able to get into the tunnel to Abyss and follow Byleth. She hadn’t gone down for a couple nights, making him wonder if he’d somehow been caught out. But then she was there, walking past his hiding place, her steps purposeful as always.

He gave it a moment before following, pulling the hood of his cloak down to further hide his unfortunately distinctive countenance. (So he might have been recognized on one foray far more easily than he’d thought. He’d learned from that.) Byleth was already a fair bit ahead of him, but it was easier to follow her this time, staying back as far as he could.

Her first stop was the Abysskeeper, getting the latest news from him, before moving on to the tavern, where she spoke with a few of the patrons there, sliding some money across the counter for a glass of what he suspected was subpar ale. She drank it anyway, chatting with the bartender. Seteth hung back, out of the tavern, and simply watched from the corridor, leaning against the wall between flickering lights and hoping the shadows were enough to conceal his identity.

Byleth remained in the tavern for a fair bit of time. Long enough to have a pint and a chat. This behavior, at least, was somewhat excusable. She’d been raised as a mercenary, after all, and while he knew she would occasionally join her father at the town’s tavern, she had likely made contacts with people in Abyss during the whole debacle when the subterranean town had been found out. Certainly she had the students here, it stood to reason there were others she spoke to as well.

From there, he watched her move to a dead end corridor (he hung far back for this) to… feed cats? Oh, he’d seen her slip some scraps to cats and dogs around Garreg Mach itself, so it shouldn’t be that surprising, but it somehow still was. She sat with them a while, giving them scraps, petting them. Sometimes one would bring her something as a gift, or she’d pry some odd item out of a mouth and then offer food as apology.

He frowned, watching, and mentally adjusted his evaluation of her. Just a little.

The rest of the night was spent in much the same manner. She helped out in the little market, stopped and spoke with children running around (and slipping them some candies). There was the library, and he itched to stop her from going in there, but he had no jurisdiction here, and trying to stop her would just make things worse. She chatted with library patrons – and he caught a flash of familiar deep green hair, the owner of which was rubbing his eyes sleepily before he waved to the professor and wandered back up to the surface.

She would stop and catch up with the Ashen Wolves. Balthus flirted as loud and boisterously as he did everything else, but Byleth dodged his efforts; he caught mention of a brawling tournament, and talking about his debts. It sounded like the professor was giving him ways to help deal with them while still having some money on the side. She spoke to Constance about magical theory, and gave Hapi a small bag of pastries from the kitchens.

Perhaps unsurprisingly, she spent the most time with Yuri, the de facto leader of the Ashen Wolves. He couldn’t quite make out what they were talking about, as they spoke in low tones to each other. That caught his attention more than anything, and he had to wonder if that was simply habit for the lavender-haired house leader, or if they were planning something and needed to keep it quiet.

He almost missed when she bade goodnight to the young man, presumably to head back to the surface for some sleep. Still, he wanted to make sure… but before he could follow after her, a shadow was upon him, pressing a blade against his throat.

“You know, I don’t take kindly to my people being tailed.” The words were said in a hard tone, a thinly veiled threat, by none other than Yuri. “I don’t know what you think you’re doing, but the professor is under my protection, got it?”

Seteth stared in open shock, raising his hands up to indicate he wasn’t armed, but no words came to mind. 

The knife pressed a little closer, a warning. “You had really better tell me what you were doing, following her around all night.”

So he knew? Well, there had been rumors that Yuri was the brains of Abyss, and surely he had eyes and ears all over the place. Did that mean that Byleth had caught him out, too, or that she hadn’t and Yuri was looking out for her? Seteth swallowed, feeling the sharp edge of the knife on his skin. “I think it’s no surprise to anyone that I haven’t trusted her,” he finally said, moving the hood of his cloak back enough that Yuri could see his face.

The younger man scoffed, his lips twisted in a scowl, but he removed the knife. “So instead of just asking her, you decided to be a creep about it?”

“I… well…” Yuri had a point. “I had no reason to believe she would answer me truthfully.” It sounded weak even to his own ears.

“Professor’s never lied to anyone. I don’t know even think she knows how. She may not be all that willing to share on her own, but she’s no liar.” He slid the knife back into its hiding place, giving Seteth a long look. “You’d do better to just talk to her. And frankly? I don’t want to see you down here again. You church folk aren’t the most welcome here, and I won’t guarantee your safety after tonight.”

“But she is also a member of the church.”

Yuri laughed outright at that, hard enough his eyes watered. “Tell yourself that all you want. She may be a professor at that fancy church of yours, but she was a mercenary first, and that reputation is what counts down here.” He waved a hand dismissively. “She’s welcome. You aren’t. Go home to your little monastery, Seteth. And maybe actually try to talk to the professor before you go jumping to conclusions about things.”

Seteth opened his mouth, about to ask what the pair had been talking about, when he caught Yuri’s expression. The man would not be telling him, that much was certain. He sighed, admitting defeat. “Point taken.” A pause. “Ah… it might come off a little odd, I suppose, with all things considered, but… thank you for looking out for her.”

“Yeah, well, I’m not doing it for you. We take care of our own down here, and far’s any of us are concerned, she’s one of us.” The man turned and began walking away. “Balthus will make sure you find your way safely back to the surface.”

He’d been so preoccupied with Yuri that he hadn’t even noticed when the bigger man had arrived – and how did he manage that, anyway? The brawler in question grinned down at him, placing a large hand on his shoulder. “Come on, then, church man, let’s get you home all nice and safe, shall we?”

--------

It was later than he’d thought, by the time he was escorted out of Abyss, and after so many late nights, he was exhausted.

But it looked like his night wasn’t over yet. Byleth was waiting, legs dangling over the ledge of the dorm porch. Her hands were on either side of her as she leaned back, looking up at the night sky, but she straightened and glanced his way when he stepped out of the tunnel.

She didn’t look all that surprised to see who it was, and that made him hesitate, before he deflated with a sigh. “You knew?” he asked, as he approach her perch.

“You’re not the most subtle, you know. But it was a pretty standard night in Abyss for me.” Her lips quirked into an almost smirk, but it was gone quickly. “Longer than usual, actually. I was wondering if you were going to get tired and leave.”

He had the grace to flush, embarrassed. “I… I apologize. It was unbecoming of me to follow you and treat you like a criminal.”

“You don’t trust me.” She shrugged. “You’ve made that plain enough. And I can’t particularly blame you. I came here with my father, was made a professor despite not having any real qualifications. You don’t know who I am.” Her gaze narrowed, boring into him. “Whether you trust me or not is on you, but you would have gotten many more nights of rest if you had just asked.”

There was a long silence as he processed what she’d said. “You… you knew I was watching you?”

A curt nod. “Since the first night you tried to follow me. I didn’t know it was you at the time. You were very easy to shake, by the way.” Now she did move, hopping off the ledge and strolling over to him. She had to tilt her head to look up at him, but her gaze was no less steely. “I wouldn’t even care, really, if you were exhausting yourself, but it’s bothering others, and I’m not thrilled with that. Not to mention your presence around the Abyss entrance is a detriment. I’m not the only one who knew you were out here.”

“Go to bed, Seteth. Tomorrow’s a free day. Maybe you should use it to catch up on sleep.” She began to move past him, then paused, glancing over her shoulder. “And apologize to Flayn. Properly.” With that parting advice, she was off, her boot heels clicking on the stones as she wandered off.

Seteth wanted to follow, to see where she was headed at this hour, but decided against even asking. Instead, he side, sliding a hand down his face in a tired motion. There was a throbbing behind his eyes, a reminder that he’d not gotten nearly enough sleep in his pursuit of proving her to be untrustworthy. And that had only resulted in him looking the fool.

He retreated to his rooms, checking in briefly on Flayn, before writing a simple note for her that he would be resting the following day. Then, finally, he went to sleep.

--------

When he finally awoke shortly after lunch the next day, he found a tray with a simple meal of cold meats, cheese, and bread waiting for him, covered by a napkin. A note sat atop the entire thing, and he grimaced when he recognized the professor’s quick, choppy handwriting.

Flayn asked me to help make sure you were well fed on waking. Please take better care of yourself.

B. E.

He would have to thank her later. And… apologize again. Perhaps he really had been treating her more poorly than she deserved.

[odyssiaca]

i said i was gonna do it, so here i am! i am writing this on the fly, making it up as i go along so who knows how long it will be! who knows. 

i have finally played every route in fe3h, including the dlc- currently im making my way through the new game+ and screaming because this is my life now apparently. this isn’t really a deep and meaningful essay just... my experience playing the game and all the routes. 

( pls note i played on casual and normal for my original playthrough because i am a wimp. for ng+ im still playing casual but this time im playing on hard. )

this is the order in which i played the routes + dlc: verdant wind, azure moon, cindered shadows, silver snow and crimson flower. 

right! so!! let’s start!

White Clouds: the first twelve chapters are obviously pretty same-y, which is fine, except when you’re playing 4 times in a row. i liked the fact that the goddess tower was unique for every route and character you were trying to get s support with. there were some unique aspects to the different house, ie. judith, arundel, rodrigue, finding out about dimitri and edelgard. but other than that i did get pretty bored when it came around to doing it... again. and idk just, like i said the reveals obviously weren’t as shocking the 4 time around but like, they were still enjoyable, which is good at least!

Verdant Wind: this route is... eh. it’s the first one i did because dear god i am in love with claude. the route in and of itself is probably one of the weakest ngl. there were things that didn’t make sense in the context of the route and unlike azure moon and crimson flower it didn’t feel unique (given that this route and silver snow are.... IDENTICAL. except the final bosses) the final boss was dope and i am obsessed with God Shattering Star, but other than that? meh. i liked it at first because it was my first one and yknow, claude. but now it’s just idk, it’s lacking. and i’m gonna be honest: i don’t like most of the class. i like claude, hilda, marianne and lysithea. that is it. the others are just overbearing or kinda boring. lorenz i just, i can’t get over his design, i know he’s a deep character but i dislike most of his c supports, i hate his hair and the way he talks. ignatz and raphael are forgettable. i know they’re also very deep characters but their surface levels make me not want to go into their characters. and just. fuck leonie, i’m sorry i just cannot handle her. she’s overbearing, annoying, thinks that because jeralt trained her she’s better than everyone??? GOD. her supports with hilda are cute, and i like her post-timeskip design but otherwise she’s one of my least favourite characters in the game. im sorry. (edit: okay im revising this because it was late at night and perhaps i was a bit harsh. i dont actually mind the characters i mentioned that much, in fact they can be quite funny, however, i still prefer characters from the other houses more.) so my verdict of this route is that i did enjoy it, i liked the cutscenes and the timeskip designs but it’s still only my second favourite. 8/10.

Azure Moon: look. i’m just saying, this route? is the best. hands down, it’s absolutely amazing. it has it’s flaws, and it’s very different from the other routes and is also very much the most fire emblem like route but that’s okay. this route is devastating, heartbreaking, really fucking sad. and that just draws me in. when i first did the route i was gonna marry mercedes because i am gay and love her but the character of dimitri is just so incredibly well done- before and after the timeskip. i like the fact that there’s essence behind his character, meaning. i actually found this route to be kinda hard in places (cornelia for example and also edelgard) and it’s also very unique. i like the way the two factions of faerghus and adrestia interact, and also the way the alliance is just dragged into it. ( claude doesn’t die which is good!!!!) in the other routes you only really see dimitri as this crazed character but in azure moon you find out WHY and yes, that is good. the characters are all very unique and i like them all they all have their own stories and characteristics that make them as unique at the route. the cutscenes and stills are, beautifully done and truly heartbreaking. and just. AH. i adore this route more than i have any right to, on the whole it’s my favourite. 10/10.

Cindered Shadows: this isn’t really a route, but that’s okay, im sure you guys don’t mind. i love the ashen wolves, they’re amazing. the story is... weak. because it doesn’t fit into the actual plot at all and that annoys me. aelfric is a character i dislike immensely but maybe that was the point? i find the explanations in the route to be its downfall, because it clashes with what we already know in the game. sitri is pretty and im glad we get a tiny bit more byleth and sitri backstory but otherwise the characters and abyss are it’s saving grace. 6/10.

Silver Snow: im gonna go ahead and say it: fuck this route. it’s verdant wind but with seteth instead of claude. it’s verdant wind but bad and boring. it’s dull and unnecessary. i had really high hopes for this route because it’s the church! i dont like the church but a route with them could be very interesting! it was not! it lacked personality, it lacked uniqueness. i don’t particularly like most of the characters and basically just used the students and fuuuuuck the final boss. the only reason i did this route was because i wanted to romance yuri but also edelgard.  2/10 would not play again.

Crimson Flower: ... ... ... WHERE ARE THE CUTSCENES!!!! where is the reunion scene between byleth and edelgard, why is it all stills!!!!!! WHY IS IT SHORTER THAN THE OTHERS!!!! WHY. the story in this route is actually very interesting, and well thought out. but the aforementioned points are what make me want to ram my head into a wall. idk why they thought to give silver snow cutscenes and not this route but it was stupid. i do like the way the portrayed the church and rhea though. as the villains they technically are. i like the characters a lot, they’re all great, and i love the angst!!! the way you get to choose if you want to spare or kill your children whom you love. ( i spared claude and lysithea because i am weak. ) but its just. the vibe of the route is ruined by the lack of cutscenes and thats dumb ik but it is what it is. and also it did NOT need to be shorter, there was no reason for it to be as short as it was. 5/10.

so in order we have: 

Azure Moon

Verdant Wind

Cindered Shadows

Crimson Flower

Silver Snow

i enjoyed the game a lot, the writing was beautiful and the characterization was also really good. but some of the characters and routes were just. weak. very very weak. 

idk what else to say so imma leave it here i guess!! pls feel free to debate with me, i’d like that a lot. 

[gascon-en-exil]

Bottom Ten Three Houses Characters

I decided after a while that I couldn’t fulfill an anon request to do a top 10 list for the whole series, because it would overlap too much with ones I’ve already done - lord privilege is a thing that exists, and I’ve ranked those before - and because it’s really difficult to compare so many characters (~600 if we’re being thorough) across so many different games.  Instead I decided to go negative with it, although around 2/3rds of these ought to be totally uncontroversial at least in my corner of the fandom. Starting from the one I dislike least:

(Dis)honorable Mention: Anna, for putting in such a lackluster showing that she doesn’t deserve a spot on this list despite technically being in the playable cast. It’s not only the lack of supports, although that hurts, but also how obvious it is that the writers have no new material for her. Anna’s gimmick worked fined when she was an NPC and perhaps for the space of a single game as a playable character, and Fates originated the meta idea of making her paid DLC so you have to shell out real money to use her, but that’s the extent of her here too. As a unit she’s far from spectacular, and her paralogue isn’t even good for much but a ton of (mostly mediocre) drops and a tiny bit of context for that Pallardó guy from non-CF Chapter 13. Here’s a revolutionary idea: for the next original FE it might be good to have Anna back to being only a wacky dimension-hopping NPC shopkeeper.

#10 Constance - It pains me that she’s on this list, more than anyone else by far. I really wanted to like Constance, and at first glance she’s right up my alley as a haughty impoverished aristocrat coping awkwardly with her diminished status. I like the dark flier class she’s built around, and her default personality is an even louder pre-timeskip Ferdinand whom you know I love. However, it’s that “default personality” bit that sours me on her, because she’s got two of them. What could have been an interesting take on Constance’s struggles with identity and self-esteem in the wake of her family’s disgrace is presented in such an over-the-top comedic manner that it’s impossible to take her very seriously. It’s more reminiscent of FE13′s Noire than anything, and at least she has the excuse of a mother who performed dark magic experiments on her and fractured her psyche. Constance also supports Jeritza and yet somehow they do no more than lightly allude to their personality issues which is as much a missed opportunity as you can get with such a terrible character (see below), opting instead to try softening Jeritza with his fondness for roses. Lovely.

#9 Leonie - Fandom exaggerates her Jeralt fixation, although it does pop up at the worst times (see: her Byleth support right after his death). As I’m not very concerned with Byleth’s nonexistent feelings though this placement more comes down to general indifference. Leonie feels completely disconnected from the rest of the Deer, and although she’s a supposed reflection of the house’s more egalitarian bent there’s nothing connecting her to the politics or larger culture of the Alliance until you learn about her student loan debt. She really is best understood as a Jeralt fangirl first and foremost, which is why perhaps the most surprising thing about her is when reality comes knocking in her endings and it turns out she picked up her mentor’s vices as well. Jeralt himself would be even further down this list were he playable, but as he isn’t I’ll have to settle for side-eyeing all of his adoring fans. Which brings me to....

#8 Alois - Remember that dating sim Dream Daddy that people were talking about a few years ago? The one that willfully misunderstands what the term “daddy” means in gay male spaces to write fluffy dad joke-laden romances intended for a presumably not-gay audience? Alois is the spirit of that game personified as an FE character, which is not something I ever would have thought to know that I didn’t want. He’s got some funny lines here and there, but that’s the most you can say about him when otherwise he’s just passable midgame filler (of a unit type each house including the Wolves already has one of) standing in Jeralt’s imitation Greil shadow. I don’t even mind the platonic S support all that much because it’s still only Byleth, but it occurs to me that just about the only thing that would have made Alois memorable would be if his S support was romantic but he remained married to his wife. I can’t think of a time when this series has allowed the player to indulge in adultery, so even if it had been limited to an option for f!Byleth it would have been a fascinating option.

#7 Cyril - This isn’t about his devotion to Rhea, which is fully understandable given his circumstances. Nor is it about his performance as a unit which in my experience at least is actually rather good for a Donnel/Mozu-style villager archetype. No, what gets me is that he’s a self-righteous workaholic which makes for quite the grating personality trait. I understand that he finds meaning in his work and that he’s got some entertaining supports calling other characters to task for their terrible work ethics or ignorance of the lives of commoners (VW should have really dug more into his back-and-forth with Claude), but the lectures on not interrupting him or telling Byleth to get back to work are as tiresome as they are frequent. It’s petty I know, but one can only hope he grows out of it eventually. At least he doesn’t wear a pot on his head....

#6 Mercedes - Like Constance, she’s the type of character I wanted to like from the start. She’s pious pseudo-Catholic clergy, with a quirky thing with ghosts and some quiet lesbianism with her BFF that I can take or leave but that I know some people really enjoy (and also she’s bi-for-Byleth, but no one talks about that). Unfortunately as I touched on when talking about Marianne in my Top 10 characters list, Mercedes’s appealing points are sharply contrasted against her more annoying ones. The breathy voice acting I can mostly get used to, but her backstory is unnecessarily convoluted - three families and two flavors of evil adoptive father - and as is also true of Constance her association with Jeritza drags her down a fair bit. To this day I still have no idea what we’re meant to make of the Lamine siblings’ dynamic, but Mercedes’s eagerness to overlook her brother’s crimes and unrepentant bloodlust so she can coo over what a sweet boy he is deep down say some pretty odd things about her personal moral code. Maybe it was implied all along with the paranormal fascination that she’s not as orthodox as she appears to be, but the dissonance is real especially in CF where she gets a support line with Jeritza that tries to woobify him and affirms how much she loves him...and meanwhile in monastery exploration she’s wringing her hands over how much she hates the idea of fighting Faerghus and the church. There’s no through line here, and as justification for characters siding with Edelgard go this one is pretty flimsy.

#5 Gilbert - Similar to Cyril, I don’t dislike Gilbert for the reasons that most of the fandom does. Yes, he’s a crappy father, but as I’m pretty indifferent to Annette and to father-child bonding in general I can appreciate the fresh spin he places on the archetype of the devoted knight. In short, he’s a knight who wasn’t devoted and ran away from his duty, and his arc in AM is all about making up for his past failures both to his family and to his liege. This is an angle to knighthood FE doesn’t delve into often, and it makes him an explicit foil of Dedue as explored in their supports. The reason that Gilbert is on this list though in fact has more to do with that opposition, because I am painfully aware that had AM not killed off Dedue by default in service of self-insert romance Gilbert would not have had to be scripted as Dedue’s replacement both as a unit and as a retainer figure. It’s not his “fault” of course, insofar as one can ever blame fictional characters for the actions of their writers, but whenever I’m running AM and have to take those randomized supply run quests from Gilbert instead of the route’s actual retainer I’m reminded of how we were robbed of power couple Dimidue (in AM anyway - CF of all routes delivers on this point). Gilbert could have been father of the year to Annette and freely given Byleth his (grand)daddy dick and it still wouldn’t overwrite the fundamental problem that Byleth screwed over all three AM-exclusive characters in different ways. As to that, well...look at #1.

#4 Raphael - It’s hard to describe just how much wasted potential there is to this guy. Along with Ignatz and Leonie he could have illustrated the greater social mobility of the Alliance and the increased opportunities non-nobles enjoy there, but all three are mostly side characters. He’s repeatedly positive in the face of tragedy and remains motivated by his love for his remaining family, but 90% of his dialogue revolves around either eating or training to the point that he’s arguably the closest FE16 comes to gimmick character writing (something almost every FE is guilty of, but that has come under heavy scrutiny in recent years because of how much Awakening and Fates used it). He has a sweet friendship with Ignatz with even a bit of chemistry that sits in good company with the kind of simply affability he has with almost everyone he supports, but they have a no homo ending involving one of the game’s eternally offscreen characters. He supports Dimitri, but the bara content is thin on the ground and their line stands out as easily the least substantial of the house leaders’ cross-house supports. Even as a unit he’s lackluster, in the same repetitive category as Alois with nothing that makes him really stand out from the other axe-and-brawling guys. Highest HP growth in the game...whee. I’ve seen arguments that Raphael’s simplicity is the source of his charm, and while I can sort of see that he feels like he belongs in a game like the GBA or Tellius titles where characters have a much smaller amount of overall content to their name. In a game like Three Houses the sheer torrent of lines about food and training wear thin quickly.

#3 Bernadetta - see #8 here. To sum up, she’s annoying, her sex appeal falls flat with me and is frankly just kind of confusing, it bugs me that a significant portion of the Ferdibert fandom headcanons her as Hubert’s bestie when the man clearly does not do besties, and the most positive thing I can think to say about is that based on her habit of befriending known murderers among other things she might be a bit of a sociopath. That’s not very flattering, but at least it’s somewhat interesting. Oh yeah, and Edelgard setting her on fire at the Gronder rematch is good for a meme although I suppose that isn’t technically attributable to Bernadetta.

#2 Jeritza - Jeritza sucks. Everyone, apart from the small number of fans into Bylitza for some reason, is aware that he sucks. He’s a bloodthirsty serial killer we’re meant to like because he killed his father to protect his sister and also because he likes ice cream and kittens...and because he’s clearly mentally ill in some way and Edelgard is weaponizing his illness for her war which means all the murder is okay, I guess. Jeritza is like FE7 Karel if he was somewhat important to the plot and that instead of a redemption arc between games he got Karla and some other characters swearing that he’s really sweet deep down and also he can romance the male self-insert - yay. I love the line of thinking sometimes espoused in anti circles that M/M Bylitza is the only non-Problematic™ Byleth ship because he’s their only gay romantic S rank partner who’s not one of their students, a loli, or Rhea who is obviously the most evil character in the game. As I’ve mentioned above Jeritza also makes other characters he supports worse by association, although he’s not quite as bad in that regard as #1. Do I even need to bring up the painfully affected voice acting? It’s ironic that the vocal director for the English localization turns in unquestionably the worst performance among the named cast, and I have to assume he picked the role for himself solely because he sounds like an imposing Death Knight and not because his voice is at all suited to the troubled twunk underneath the armor. Just about the only thing that would have salvaged Jeritza for me would be if he and Hubert got to have an epic competition to determine once and for all which of them is more evil. Hubert would wipe the floor with this poser.

#1 Byleth - see here at the bottom. They fail as a self-insert, they fail to be a properly realized character even more than previous Avatars, they damage other characterizations and arcs all over the place, and Three Houses overall would have been vastly improved if they didn’t exist or at least weren’t the PoV character. In that previous post I listed just two reasons why I still prefer Byleth to Robin as an Avatar, one being that their significance to the plot is set up before the game even begins and the other being that their lack of a voice makes f!Byleth a less obtrusive presence when it came time for me to have her S rank all the guys to fill out the support log...not enough to where I could treat her as a self-insert, but any amount helps. I do however have to add a third small bit of praise for Byleth, in that they apparently drive antis up the wall for the most asinine of reasons which is always entertaining to witness. I recall when this game’s school setting was first revealed that everyone in the fandom nodded their heads and made the easy prediction that there would be teacher/student sex because that’s just how FE rolls, but somehow still there’s outrage over it. Even so, Byleth is horrible by every significant parameter, and it’s a shame we’ll only be able to imagine what FE16 would have been like had the developers not felt the need to write the whole thing around an Avatar.

[msbluebell]

Hello, I'm the same anon talking about the Captured AU. Sorry about that, I'm not accusing you of making Edelgard a Yandere when I sent the ask, I may come off as oversimplifying Edelgard's character with that but the Captured AU where Edelgard amplified her controlling tendencies just... gave off that impression to me, so, again, I apologize. And part of me can't see Edelgard doing that, as much as I'm aware that it's an AU, since even if her methods are questionable, she still gave (1/2)

the rest of the Eagles a choice to whether or not they will fight with her or not. And even in non-Black eagles routes, she gave Petra a choice to whether or not she will help her if you recruit Petra. So even with all her controlling tendencies, I was on the belief that Edelgard still gave people a choice, no matter how little they might be. Edelgard's methods are NOT okay, but I just can't see her having her controlling tendencies amplified like the AU did. (2/2)Listen, I’m not mad at you. You’re allowed to not like something, and you’e allowed to criticize something, and you’re allowed to even think actively bad things about something.

You and I? We don’t agree on Edelgard’s character and that’s the bare bones of it.

I’m really, really, tired of trying to defend my view on Edelgard, or this stupid AU I made that got me so much hate from different anons (not you, I assume). I don’t even like her character, so it’s exhausting to keep repeating my views of her over and over. So, right here, right now, I’m using your argument less to argue about my AU, and more to put my final foot down on my feelings on Edelgard, what I think she’d do, and how I feel about her. So sorry about that.

I completely, totally, undeniably believe Edelgard absolutely would lock up Byleth in a tower for five years if given the option. That’s not even something I questioned when writing this AU. I think she’s ruthless enough to do it, I think she’s got the sense of compassion to want to do it, and I think she has the moral self-superiority to think she’s right for doing so.

This is the girl that was staged a bandit attack in order to assassinate her two fellow House Leaders, both of whom are underage like her. This is the girl that blackmailed Lorenz into siding with the Empire, this is the girl that is invading all of Fodlan in order to tear down the system and rebuild it the way she thinks is right, this is the girl that used Bernadetta as bait in a trap on Gronder Field in every route not Black Eagles. This is the girl that is possibly blackmailing Ferdinand. Her willingness to commit atrocities in the name of her ambition is what gets the other three factions of the game to paint her as evil. And, eespite loathing the methods of TWSITD, she is shown to actively aid them with their experiments by collecting Crest Stones for them to use to turn innocents into Demonic Beasts with her assault on the Holy Tomb. She also explicitly gave them the Death Knight, who then helps them kidnap Flayn for more experiments. She obsessed with control to the point that it’s listed in her bio, and the only time she lets up on any of these qualities is when Byleth is actively playing her morality pet in the Crimson Flower Route.

And that’s not even going into the fact that she justifies all these actions by the “I Did What I Had To Do” logic.

So, yes, with all the criticism you may think I hate her.

No.

I dislike her, but I understand and appreciate that she’s also a kind, compassionate, woman that is actively trying to make her homeland a better play the only way she knows how. She’s working on only half the actual facts, much like Dimitri, and like him she’s attacking the wrong people because she came to a wrong conclusion based on only half given facts. She legitimately does believe that playing the tyrant now is going to save a lot of people in the future, and it’s a genuine character flaw of hers that she overlooks the now in the name of the future. She is completely right about the corruption of the crest system and the need to reform, as well as the issues with the Church. 

But I’m getting off topic.

I believe, based on both her ruthlessness and her compassion, that she would lock someone up in order to save them from the war.But BBell, you say, locking someone up like that isn’t compassionate at all, it’s torture.

Yes, person who just said that, I agree with you. By basic human decency standards. But you clearly have no idea how we treat prisoners of war. Even in modern day. And, yes, Byleth is a war prisoner first, as I have tried and failed to remind everyone over the course of this AU.

And, my lovelies, being a POW sucks hard, but I bet it sucked harder in an age before crossbows.

Edelgard, in this AU in particular, thinks she is saving Byleth’s life by keeping her a POW. And, on top of that, she’s keeping Byleth fed, in a nice room, with comfortable beds, nice clothes, entertainment. Compared to a wet, cramp, dirty cell with rats that eat you, no toilet, no bed, and no light I bet this prison seems like one of those fancy rich people prisons that are nicer than my apartment. Not only that, Byleth is getting company every day. (I do admit I decided that the room needs a window, just one that’s kinda like a skylight where it’s way too high up to reach). In Edelgard’s mind, she’s saving Byleth’s life and keeping them comfortable until the war is over. That’s downright compassionate right there. Horrifying to us though.

The thing about this AU that everyone seems to forget is that Byleth loving Edelgard was not the end goal for the woman. Yes, she does want Byleth on her side and thinks she can convince them one day, but actively controlling them and making them love her isn’t the point. The point is to keep this person she’s canonically obsessed with from dying in the war. 

I didn’t say this clearly the first time around because I wanted people to come up with their own reasons and endings for this AU, but in my head once this war is over and Edelgard rules everything, Byleth is free to go so long as she isn’t planning a riot or rebellion or assassination. Granted, I personally wouldn’t want someone that could incite a rebellion running around free, so house arrest in a manor or something is more likely, but the tower won’t be necessary after the war.

That’s how I saw it, anyway.

I don’t care if other people want it to be different. I don’t care if they make Edelgard a Yandere. I don’t care if they make Byleth a twenty foot dragon. I don’t care if they don’t keep it as canonically aligned as possible like I tried to do at first before more and more ask bombed my doorstep and this whole thing swelled way beyond my original prompt and got lost somewhere. I don’t care if this is a good horror story for people, or a story they hate, or a good yandere bait story. I don’t care if people have Edelgard obsessed to the point where she never lets Byleth out, because, you know what? I’m sure they have their own logical reasoning for why she would do that. I can’t personally see it. I know Anon personally can’t see it because that’s where this whole mess of me trying to defend my thoughts on a stupid AU I wrote that got me a lot of grief from much meaner Anons came from.

It’s just a dumb AU, guys, do want you want with it. Block it, hate it, love it, write it. Write a billion spin-offs. Make Rhea the one locking people in towers. Make Claude do it. I don’t care if you somehow make Jeralt a zombie and have him capture Edelgard in a tower at this point.You wanna know something? I’d write how I most logically think that very Zombie Jeralt prompt would happen if someone sent it. And I think that’s the problem. Maybe I’m trying to hard to logic out all this stuff I don’t think will happen. Because I don’t back down from the asks, even when I think there’s no way it could happen I tackle it. Maybe that’s why everything is swelling so much beyond my control, and I got three Anons (not counting you, Anon from this ask) that have harassed me about this.I’m going to turn off Anon Asks if I get one more hate comment btw. Check mate to that particular Anon if they’re reading this. Call me a cunt to my face so I can block you, coward. 

Anyway, I got off point again. You disagree with me, Respectful Anon that disagrees with my AU, and I disagree with you. I’m not mad about the yandere comment, I was just defensive. Here’s my feelings on everything. You probably disagree with them. That’s great! I don’t wanna live in a world where people blindly agree with me! I’m sure you even have a great counter argument that I’ll read, and then can’t do anything about because this AU is bigger than me and also I might still disagree.And that’s it, that’s my whole defense of myself in this AU. Have a nice day. 

[astraseason]

@valorwilled​ sent... 1, 5, 9, 14, 22 let the salt flow through u too pepper ( prompt. )

      What OTPs in your fandom(s) do you just not get? 

corrin/xander is a big one, because............ guys, adopted siblings are still siblings. the entire point of fates is choosing your “birth” siblings or your adoptive ones. i get doing it for yourself in a playthrough, because that’s fair, have fun, but to seriously, actively ship it is... uh... ( on that note, corrin/royals in general is really weird, ESPECIALLY in birthright ohhhhhhh my god, stepsiblings are also still siblings-- )

it just feels like the entire premise of the game goes out the window because you’re h.orny on main for x character.

i also don’t understand ( or like, for that matter ) the concept of first gen/second gen. it’s gross. like. in awakening there’s something of a disconnect since the kids haven’t been born yet-- but like... that’s still your friend’s kid? your living, breathing friend that’s right there? like, are they okay with this? lucina’s the worst offender for this because she DOES exist by the time the reveal happens-- and chrom actively treats her the same as the baby back in ylisse. how does he not run you through on the spot if you go after her?!

and in fates it’s even worse because it’s not like a future version of your friend’s potential kid, that’s straight up your friend’s kid. or, you know, your niece or nephew. :’) intsys... why do you do this...

there’s more but i’ll be here all day if i sit here questioning everything people like.

      Has fandom ever ruined a pairing for you? 

lmao......... chrobin, actually. it’s not that i dislike it or anything, it’s a legitimately wonderful ship, it’s just... the oversaturation has really put me off. i’m just...... bored of it now? i’m not a fan of edeleth either, that’s more because a lot of the time i don’t like how i see it portrayed.

i didn’t ship it to begin with but i’m also really sick of sylvix and ferdibert too. especially the latter, since like 8/10 times people only seem to take interest in hubert as an accessory to ferdinand and i just-- no........ he’s so much more...

     Most disliked character(s)? Why? 

uhhhhh as far as characters themselves go, without outside influence from the fandom... rhea and gilbert??? like, there are characters i dislike, but i don’t have the energy to really care about them.

but rhea and gilbert are the two who came to mind first, so there we go?

i don’t think i have to explain why i dislike them, either. anyone who knows me knows why i don’t like them.

i’m... also really starting to dislike dimitri outside of bp’s portrayal, sighs into my hands.

      Unpopular opinion about your fandom? 

you’re allowed to like things and still criticize and discuss their flaws. it does not make you a jerk or less of a fan. you are allowed to like what or who you like, and accepting and acknowledging their flaws and using your critical thinking does not negate that, i promise. 

...i guess that’s an unpopular opinion in the fandom, but. y’know. close enough. yes, i’m still very salty over this.

     Popular character you hate?

sylvain... whoops. i kinda went from the neutral ‘eh, he’s not a character i’m invested in :/’ towards him to ‘sylvain what the fuck’ upon seeing his supports with byleth, and then... well, a lot of it is also negative association with a person in the fandom who’s hurt me before. i mean, i’ll write with any sylvains who pop up, you’re all valid, but... i just... i’m sorry. i don’t like him. please change my mind-- or at least, give me a better association with the character.

[luminisvii]

okay im gonna go black out and write some bullshit about my Thoughts on Literary Analysis and Character Writing bc i love writing and i love trying to figure out what works and what doesn’t. i am an unfortunate fan of fire emblem, so the real joke is on me, but let’s do this anyway. using a lot of bold as always! it makes me feel special.

Why is Leonie such a divisive character? 

as per usual, here is my disclaimer that it’s okay to like Leonie. it’s also okay to dislike her, as long as you’re not being a massive dick about it. lord knows people are rude to me about lorenz and i didn’t ask for their opinions. if you like leonie, i am not out to get you, i’m not going to tell you that you shouldn’t, i’m not even mad at you. Neat! you like a character i don’t! and that’s just fine. i honestly don’t care! go have fun! 

so let’s talk. theres a TL;DR at the end so be ready.

i’ll make no bones about it: i’m in the camp that dislikes her. i don’t have the energy to hate her as i do for faye, but leonie is pretty obnoxious as a character and it’s an uphill battle to like her. i’ve played VW like three times since i’m a self professed GD stan so i’ve dealt with her a lot, read most of her supports, and seen her as a character in actual cutscenes and stuff.

the short answer: making a character obsessed with another one and having that be most of their personality is really annoying. 

the long answer: let’s start on that now! these are my personal thoughts and analysis, so you’re free to disagree with me if you think i’m falling short.

one statement i will make right away is that i’m not offended by leonie being mean to the player. a lot of people who stan leonie like to argue that people dislike her because she’s one of the few characters who doesn’t kiss byleth’s ass immediately. that’s fine. that doesn’t bother me. after all, seteth and hapi are mean to byleth at first too, and those two are far more beloved… in fact, it’s funny that they’re mean to byleth. i would also argue that my favorite lord claude is not buddy buddy with byleth at first either, but if these popular opinion threads have proven anything to me, people love taking claude’s lying ass at face value. that’s besides the point—it’s okay that leonie isn’t immediately friendly to byleth. that is not an objective character flaw. characters need something to conflict over in the narrative, and not being instantly friendly to a player insert is not a problem in the slightest.

the major flaw in leonie’s character, imo, is that the writers decided it was a brilliant idea to make her obsessed with a man who barely seems to acknowledge her. this is an extremely unfortunate reoccurring character trope in fire emblem. notable other victims that more modern fe fans may recognize are faye and cordelia, faye being the worst offender. luckily, leonie isn’t as bad as faye. but it really is irritating that leonie, along with these other women, seem entirely driven by men who cannot acknowledge them. within three houses, you have similar traits in male characters as well: cyril is another notable offender, and to a lesser extent, dedue’s fixation on dimitri. now, we do see jeralt talking to leonie at the very least, and he does speak about her at least once in my memory, and positively at that. so it’s not as pathetic as the likes of faye. 

outside of that, leonie cannot stop fucking reminding everyone she comes across: she loves captain jeralt. she’s his only apprentice. and you, dear player, who is his child, are not good enough, because you don’t love him as much as she does. practically all her convos with byleth are about how they don’t love jeralt enough, save for a slight turn around in the A support where she talks about her promise to protect byleth in jeralt’s place. to be honest, i usually ditch her in any run i’m forced to take her (hello sylvain, the superior idiot redhead cavalier) so this promise is just cute.

the arrogance in this attitude is insensitive at best, and as seen in her B support with byleth, potentially malicious and self centered at worst. 

let’s not beat around the bush. the main point of contention for leonie is her B support with byleth, which is locked to jeralt’s death. you cannot get this support until jeralt has kicked it. and if you’re on GD, chances are you have gotten enough support points with leonie to get it immediately upon his death. the man’s grave is still fresh. what does she have the gall to say to her beloved mentor’s child?

“I've spent my whole life working to become a great mercenary like your father. There were so many times when I wanted to ask his advice, but I couldn't. I just had to make do. That's how I've made it this far. Just hard work, all on my own. But then you come along... And it's like you don't appreciate Captain Jeralt at all, or how lucky you were to have him around your whole life! Ugh! It still really bothers me! You might be his kid, but I'm still his best apprentice! Got it?!”

YIKES.

no matter how you dice it, saying that to someone whos father just died? NOT GOOD. it doesn’t matter what her reasoning is. a lot of people argue that this is realistic, that she’s acting out of grief. maybe so. however, if the game wants me to like her, they’re failing, no matter how realistic her reaction is. if this was supposed to be seen as a moment of weakness, that would be one thing, but it’s clear leonie never learns anything from this. she never gets better. she spends the rest of her life constantly centered on jeralt, and sees byleth as a competitor and obstacle to his affections, even after he’s dead. 

i don’t want to entirely make this about byleth, because let’s be real, byleth is only one of her many supports. but it is the most easily noticeable, and the least charitable to her character. 

also fun fact i did a basic search for jeralt in her supports and thats 37 times hes mentioned lmao this isn’t even accounting for her non support dialogue! which is still a lot! 

so a decent chunk of her supports still involve her talking about how great jeralt is as if the man is jesus. her better supports don’t involve him at all. i don’t have easy access to a lot of her dialogue by chapter, but quite a bit of her regular dialogue references jeralt too, be it by name or title, and a good chunk of her endings, especially her solo one, have her just taking up his title and job and drinking habits. it’s supposed to be seen as cute.

this woman is in her 20s at the beginning of the game. she’s my age. this kind of behavior is worrying. 

so you’re thinking “tell, you’ve spent a LOT of time talking about how leonie won’t shut the fuck up about jeralt. what about the rest of her character? unlike faye, she actually has one!” right you are! i will concede that. leonie does have things going on for her outside of her constant screeching about jeralt! what are they?

we see that her personality has her as a hard worker and frugal person because she’s grown up in a life that has less than many of her peers. she’s rational and rather keen, capable of assessing her opponents correctly and outsmarting them. she likes to help others. her supports with claude are fairly interesting as they talk about their own perspectives on the world to each other in a friendly manner. she talks to bernadetta and praises her skill in craft and manages to befriend her. in fact, all her supports where she doesn’t mention jeralt at all are pretty good. she can be headstrong and sometimes quick to jump to conclusions, but leonie isn’t one to be too beholden to preset ideas and shows a capability to learn and change.

wait, this sounds like a pretty well rounded and likeable character i’m describing! what happened here? this kind of portrayal is almost contradictory to the side of her that only thinks of jeralt. 

a lot of people who like leonie like her for these aspects. at first, i had thought her to be interesting, since she’s the poorest student in the entire school, here on money raised by her entire village, which must have been extremely difficult for them to do. she doesn’t understand how nobles can be so frivolous, and butts heads with the likes of hilda, who has been raised in luxury her whole life and she clashes even harder with lorenz, who is obsessed with nobility. in a way, leonie is the slap from reality that many of the rich students from garreg mach need. and she also serves an important function in the dynamic of the deer—she’s a bit of a hapless straight man to all their bullshit. they always need one of those! in the lions, that role falls to ingrid, while edelgard plays that to her own house. 

so yes, there is merit in leonie’s character. there’s a lot to like about her here. however, in my opinion, it’s not enough to make up for the incredibly abrasive aspects of her fixation on jeralt. it really just comes back to that—that someone decided that it would be a fantastic character trait to have her never stop thinking about a man, and flaunt this to the man’s child. constantly. almost all her dialogue directed at byleth is about jeralt. post skip, a lot more of her lines become about jeralt and making him proud. it’s like she thinks that he’s her dad. she’s a grown ass woman! leonie is one of the older students! she is an adult by the time the game starts! an adult with some actual worldly experience, unlike her peers! what went wrong? why is she like this? why did they make her so fucking annoying when it comes to jeralt?

so yes, that’s what i think is the major flaw of her character. a flaw that is not easily overcome. cyril is a largely derided character for similar reasons. another simple control+f tells me that rhea is mentioned in cyril’s supports 59 times so uh, woo! he has leonie beat there.

worst of all this is a flaw that narratively, she does not overcome. she never grows and gets better from it. she never changes her single minded determination to impress jeralt, even long after he’s dead. a good chunk of her endings have her taking up his business and acting just like him, taking his title too. somehow lorenz is the more likeable character, and lorenz starts off as a much worse person than her! he starts as a stinky incel classist and somehow, especially over the course of verdant wind, manages to learn and grow and change into a much better person, while leonie remains stagnant in who she is. her own peers outdo her in almost every aspect, in that they appear to be capable of growing up while leonie, already an adult, never seems to show any signs of maturing over the course of the game. we see ignatz turn from a meek nerd to someone who’s willing to do what it takes to protect what he cares about. marianne grows from suicidal and depressed to finding the will to live because it means she’ll be able to spend more time with things she enjoys and people she loves. lorenz goes from snobbish and distant over his complex about nobility to being one of the kindest members of the deer, willing to go against his father for the greater good. even hilda matures! hilda starts the game lazy and unambitious, trying to avoid work, saying she’d never risk her life for her friends, to fighting against some of the strongest forces in the continent and ESPECIALLY on CF we see her refusing to abandon claude in his time of need, no matter how bad it gets, even if it costs her life. what does leonie do? leonie seems to forever be stuck in the mindset that she has to impress jeralt, no matter how far she goes.

this is incredibly nitpicky, i’ll admit, this isn’t really part of the character analysis, but i find she under performs as a unit too. she may have ungodly speed and no weaknesses in her skills, but damage output wise she’s easily outdone in house by the other canon paladin of lorenz and his wonky statline, and out of house sylvain has basically the same ability as her, the same color hair, and a crest + relic that make him way more effective. the man has bulk, too. so, that’s a small ding to leonie as well. i had the same problem with sully in awakening. for all the talk about how these women are just as good as the men, they appear to under perform quite a bit.

and i’m gonna talk real quick in a basic list format of arguments i’ve seen for people defending leonie, since i’m running out of like, a coherent way to talk about some of this stuff.

-She’s realistic.

maybe so, but the game intends for me to find her as likeable and sympathetic, as it is for all recruitable characters. her reactions to byleth and sometimes others may be realistic, but don’t paint a charitable image of her. again, the moment in her B support with byleth is so bad, it makes her seem like she’s acting towards them with cruel intent. while i don’t care about byleth’s feelings since byleth isn’t a real person, what it does is it paints leonie as malicious, no matter what her intent was or how realistic it is. yes, she’s in grief, she’s lost someone important to her, but in what context is telling someone who just lost their dad that they didn’t love him enough supposed to garner anything but hatred? even if she apologizes for it in their A support, that means she basically took years to do so and still seems to think of byleth as an obstacle to her being like jeralt.

although as i have said before, the rest of her personality is fine. i find her non jeralt stuff is much more well written. she’s a down to earth person amidst a sea of lunatics. that’s not a problem.

-People don’t like her because she’s mean to Byleth. 

this is probably true in some regards although i can’t say for certain. because byleth is a player insert and some might take it personally, but otherwise i find this isn’t much of a good universal claim since there’s more to the disdain to that. personally, i think it’s hilarious when video game characters are mean to me, but that’s just My Opinion, so no, i’m really not offended by leonie being mean to me. other characters are also mean to byleth, and that leads into the next point...

-Other characters act similarly towards Byleth and they’re popular.

one, look at those stupid unpopular opinions threads on twitter. they’re not as loved as you think. two, a lot of the characters who are listed for these things are often the likes of seteth and felix, and let’s talk about the context of their actions there. seteth is indeed mean to byleth at first, but his intent is wildly different from leonie’s—he’s suspicious, and rightfully so, of this mercenary who came out of nowhere and rhea is suddenly showing a lot of interest in and is giving a position of power to. seteth is not acting out of malintent or jealousy, he’s acting out of concern for the students and his daughter as well as rhea. because his core intent is “protect everyone around me” it comes off as far more palatable and dare i say, endearing. this is vastly different than “i’m jealous towards byleth because i love their dad and hate that they’re getting attention i can’t.” with a character like felix, this is outright incorrect—felix is not necessarily more rude to byleth more than he would be anyone else. felix is angry with the faerghus four in particular, but everyone else gets the same level of vague disrespect from him otherwise, so his behavior is not centralized to byleth. again, i don’t care about byleth’s feelings. there is also cyril, who is similarly obsessed with rhea, and is just as irritating as leonie for it, if not worse because he gets an extra layer of being a poc character obsessed with a white one who saved him. 

tl;dr: context and intent matters. a lot. i know this is a ton to ask of the fe fandom to consider taking things beyond face value, but please consider the context of characters actions and their intent behind them.

-People who don’t like Leonie are misogynistic.

i won’t discount that there are bad actors who are likely extra critical of leonie because she’s a female character. it could be and has been argued that the reasons that characters like edelgard and ingrid are so controversial is because they are female. but not everyone who raises criticisms is strictly doing so in bad faith. most people i’ve seen criticizing leonie do it for the same reasons i am, which is that she’s an abrasive character. these traits would not be any better on a male character and in some regards could be worse. so for this one, it’s better to take it as a case by case situation, and pay attention to how people are talking. those doing so for less savory reasons often let it slip eventually, somehow. i’ve been avoiding using the word “bitch” in this entire thing for this exact reason.

-Her non-Byleth supports are good.

this is highly subjective imo and comes down to what you personally like in a character. i do like some of her non byleth supports, but she still has an unfortunate habit of bringing up jeralt in non byleth supports, so the only ones that are truly good are the ones where she doesn’t talk about him at all. even then, some like her one with marianne can do the same accidental portrayal of her seeming like a pretty unpleasant person. this isn’t saying that leonie can’t be flawed or short tempered, after all i adore felix and he’s got Some Fuckin Issues, but her portrayal as a kind and bright person clashes with how she’s portrayed surrounding byleth and jeralt. far too much. i like her supports with claude, i like her line with bernadetta, and her seteth one is good too, but i’d also argue that as a personality she doesn’t bring much to the table. she’s a perfectly serviceable character when she’s not dealing with byleth, but i personally fail to see more appeal to her. she isn’t particularly enrapturing like some of the others, and unlike someone like ingrid who has a similar role in BL, doesn’t have the shared history and integration with the deer that grants ingrid a unique perspective on her peers. although again, this is highly subjective, so it’s tough to argue about this. i’ll grant that yes, the writing that doesn’t surround jeralt is WAY better and almost makes leonie a redeemable character.

-Other characters are worse.

very true! i’ll cite faye again as the bottom line for “this is how abysmal this character could be” and in feth itself there is, as stated many times before, cyril. however it doesn’t mean that leonie is better by association. and i also often see people citing seteth as an example over the rudeness to the player too, but once again that’s about context and intent. hapi is a lesser example, due to a similar mistrusting nature, and there’s quite a bit of the cast who are cold and rude because that’s just who they are. now, thank fucking god that leonie actually talks about things that aren’t jeralt. like, seriously, i’d die. she still talks about him too much, but i really should go through all of faye’s dialogue to do a proper count. 

so now you’re probably thinking—if you even got this far—“gee tell, you sure do like running your fuckin mouth, eh? so what’s the point of all this?” let’s wrap it up. 

the TL;DR:

what this all boils down to is that leonie’s got a serious problem in her writing where her entire life revolves around a man, and the way it’s dealt with isn’t particularly great. she doesn’t have a dynamic character arc like some others that redeem them from their problems, and the personality she has outside of her relationship to jeralt and byleth often clashes with the one she has with them, particularly centering on byleth. when dealing with byleth, the image it paints of her is extremely negative, and not one easily shaken—again, the B support moment is just THAT BAD. that is the most cited moment for why people hate her. it just seems like for all the flaws she has, they are not compensated for or grown out of like other characters in the game do for theirs.

theres also that tweet about how we put more thought into these characters than intsys does, so. yeah. definitely doing that right now. thanks, intsys, you did it again.

i will also point to the argument that we should hold the writers accountable, not the fictional characters who aren’t real and don’t have feelings. i don’t think leonie needs to be held accountable for her bullshit. i just wish the writers could have treated her better.

this is personally why i find leonie so difficult, and hopefully if you didn’t understand why people don’t like leonie, this can help enlighten you. i’m willing to hear people out if they have something to say, and as always, if you are a leonie stan, please go enjoy yourself, have fun, and don’t let me ruin your parade. i just enjoy trying to figure things out and talking a lot along the way! so that’s all, here’s hoping that in the future they do better, and remember that GD is the best house okay bye take this picture of me typing up this whole ass thing

[theoriginalseekerofdarkness]

So I had the weird feeling between the similarities between two games I really love and really enjoy to play (given I’m going on a third through with one of them) and the two are Tales of Berseria and Fire Emblem 3 Houses and most specifically the Crimson Flower path in that one. 

And it dawned on me how eerily similar the characters of Velvet and Edelgard as well as the characters Artorius and Rhea are.  Now I’m going to put spoilers under the read more cut so if you’re interested just bare with me as I will ramble a lot.

So with Edelgard and Velvet the comparrison is drawn as early as their upbringing. Both have  a traumatic youth with Velvet first experiencing the death of her sister and then the death of her younger brother at the hands of her brother in law. Likewise Edelgard suffers to see her family be destroyed in a likewise tragedy as both are the sole survivors and changed forever into something that isn’t entirely human as well. 

Now here’s where it gets a little tricky due to people conceiving that Edelgard has her perceptions wrong and believes TWSITD should be her first priority. The fact is that most of the events in Edelgard’s past probably wouldn’t have happened if it was indeed not for the system she was born in. And Edelgard wishes to tear that system down more than anything. Likewise, Velvet doesn’t first view the society Artorius has build as anytihng noteworthy, until she finally recognizes how much wrong and twisted sense his idealogy brings.

Both eventually are a force of chaos. Born from trauma, directing their trauma at those they hold responsible for it. Both will use anyone and anything to see their goals completed... but both also have a very strong perception that what they do IS horrible. They know it and still bare it both. They both have extremely strong characters up to the point I believe both only break ONCE in the entire game. 

And like both they have the need of a moral anchor, someone who reminds them of their good side as well, someone that keeps their humanity in check in them. For Velvet it’s Phi who has unrequited feelings for her but mostly this is because he’s still a young boy. For Edelgard it’s Byleth who she develops feelings for because of him eventually choosing her over Rhea.

Artorius and Rhea share traumatic events in which their loved ones die where they are incapable of saving them. Yes, they eventually destroy the ones responsible but they feel they must take the problem by the root and destroy it. Both feel a need to rule over humanity since they believe they know what is best for it.

I will say that whilst Rhea’s trauma is pretty damning, she does havve over 1000 years to get over and it feels she only gets slightly over it once her mother’s crest is out of her reach. She starts surrounding herself with more confidants and loved ones than before, but this doesn’t solve the problem as she immideatly relapses once Byleth returns. Likewise Artorius seems fine and cool for 7 years, pretending nothing is wrong with Velvet and Laphi. They both try and seem unphased... but the truth is they are hurt in their very core.

But here’s the problem and a main problem that I feel 3 Houses doesn’t want to acknowledge... Rhea is an adult. She’s not a little girl anymore, heck, by the time she fights Nemesis she’s a full grown woman. And like with Artorius who is an adult as well she needs to know better. She needs to push herself over it for the sake of others. But they continue to wallow in their despair that eventually causes the events of the game and subsequent suffering of others.

Now I know Artorius does FAR more questionable things than Rhea does, but the point is that in their quest for control and bring about what they desire, they do a lot of nasty stuff. People’s lifes are horribly scarred by them and in the end both refuse to actually take full responsibility for it, believing it is for the best of the greater good.

And that’s really interesting. Much as I see Rhea as a villain, I can ackowledge her pain and suffering. It doesn’t change that I dislike her and she’s going to remain disliked with me but I can attest to it. Same as with Edelgard that I can see her suffering and it weighs more for me as it does with Velvet. 

Perception is just a funny thing. Moral grey heroes... are really interesting to me.

[gascon-en-exil]

Do you happen to have a clue why Edelgard was already the most popular house leader at launch. When I started playing I started to dislike her right during the first scene in which you speak with her, Dimitri and Claude, because she came off as arrogant and dismissive. Maybe it is important to note that I started to play almost completely blind, as the only trailer I saw was at e3 2019, so I don't know if advertisement has anything to do with her popularity (1/2).

I don't want to be too cynical and hope that there are more reasons than her just being a girl and bisexual. (2/2)

Blame the pre-release hype. The initial announcement for FE16 came at E3 2018 (trailer here). You’ll note that apart from an unidentified Rhea speaking at the start it’s narrated solely by Edelgard with a different VA but that’s its own controversy and plays up her negative perception of Crests and the relationship between her and Byleth. Dimitri and Claude appear briefly but have no speaking roles, which led to a lot of speculation. Would this be like FE7 with Edelgard as a Lyn analogue starting off the story with the other two coming in later? Or would she be the only main non-Avatar lord and Dimitri and Claude secondary players? The overt focus on Edelgard over the others primed people to take a liking to her early on, and to be inclined to start theorizing about the game assuming that her view of the Crests and the goddess would be the objectively correct one (also because churches in JRPGs are almost always evil). Her being female probably helped too, as did the apparent narrative similarities to Lyn who has a substantial fanbase in her own right, but what really locked that in was that following that trailer we had next to nothing on the game for over half a year, not until the release date was set with another trailer in February 2019. Up until that point Edelgard was the only character from the game with an identifiable voice, or with her personality or motivations at all explored, because it wasn’t until the spring before release that we started getting the house trailers and weekly student profiles and such that fleshed out the rest of the core cast.

From what I recall no one knew Edelgard was bi-for-Byleth until datamined support lists got published around a month before release, followed by datamined text dumps including character endings (which is when people found out that Alois and Gilbert have platonic S ranks and got pissed about them). This approximately coincided with the restored hype following the E3 2019 trailer confirming the timeskip and revealing the leaders’ Part 2 designs, and while longtime fans were immediately keyed into the fact that it looked like Edelgard had raided Hardin’s closet and recalled that, hey, she’s the leader of an empire and what are those in every single FE?...the damage had already been done, and learning that she can S rank f!Byleth only solidified her popularity. In short I’d say it’s a bit more complicated than Edelgard being a bi woman, but it’s not exactly flattering to say that much of her fanbase and the current fandom divide comes from marketing bias.