#Three Hopes discourse

[faroreswinds]

is GW's direction really that crazy when you think about it? feels more like people are just salty that Claude didn't team up with their faves on his route because people look at Claude as a third party that validates their side. But what I saw in Hopes fit what I thought about Claude from Houses Claude does whatever he feels most benefits his goals at the moment regardless of morals. He teams up with Faerghus when he feels it benefits him most, he teams up with the Church when he feels it benefits him most, he teams up with the Empire when he feels it benefits him most and he throws his allies to the dogs when he feels it benefits him most. Like in Houses, Claude tells Dimi before leaving in Azure Moon that this is how he operates and that he only makes moves that he thinks benefit him. That's the story trying to communicate how Claude and Dimi are different. Do fans think he's just trying to be cute or that his words mean nothing? Claude's not a man of rigid principles, he's an opportunist. He, the other characters and supplementary material repeat that same message about him over and over again too. like Claude's not supposed to be a uniformly kind person, he's friendly and pleasant to talk to but someone that can be amoral or moral depending on the circumstances. And in GW, an alliance with Edelgard was more personally beneficial to him than trying to team up with Faerghus. They have the bigger force, they're paying Leicester significant reparations, they're getting stability at his southern border and they want to eliminate the same threat.

I mean.... It kinda is a crazy direction.

The issue isn't just the differences between Hopes!Claude and Houses!Claude. That could be a whole other explanation on its own, but since you have framed it as in-character, let's go over the other reason why it is a poor direction on its own.

The biggest issue, anon, is that Hopes!Claude... is an idiot.

Nothing he does or says makes much sense when you add up all the worldbuilding elements together into one big pile.

For example, he decides to side with Edelgard and wipe out the Church. He believes this will end the war quicker, and remove Edelgard's justification for war. And if that justification is gone, then Edelgard will have no choice but to cease her aggressions, or else the war is no longer justified.

However, this logic ignores sooooo many things. The first is that Edelgard publicly declares that the Kingdom and Alliance are false nations that only exist due to meddling forces. That should be a red flag right there and then. Not only that, but Edelgard invaded his nation and beelined for the capital. That should have been another red flag. If Edelgard didn't wish to take over the Alliance, she would have had no need to go for the throat.

Claude even admits that Edelgard might not stop her war. He should know that someone may not stop a war just because it is no longer "justified". And yet, he continues to side with her.

Here is another one. Claude puts a lot of blame on the Church for... basically everything wrong with Foldan. Forced marriages. Fierce border protections. The existence of nobility. The lack of freedom for nobles. I mean, just everything and anything you can think of, in his eyes it is the fault of Rhea and her Church.

But how can he come to that conclusion? Does he live under a rock? Is he not the leader of the Alliance? Does he not know that Edmund, within his own Alliance territory, makes trades with other nations outside of Foldan? When he went to school, did he not see how people of Duscur, Brigid, and Almyra got places in the classroom? How a woman from overseas got to be a Knight of Seiros? Even if he only spent two weeks there, surely he saw something, no?

He is also a prince of another nation. A nation with no Church, and no Crests. And they still have a King and nobility of their own. So why is he blaming the Church for such things? He literally is from another nation.

Hopes!Claude feels like he was written by a young author who is just starting out. There is no logic to his thinking. He just hates the Church because the writers needed him to.

And what makes it worse is that Claude is supposed to be the smart one. He is lauded as the brilliant tactician. The guy who thinks 5 steps ahead in every chess match. But he comes across as the most ignorant of the three lords, who cannot see past his own nose.

So yes, this is why is it a crazy direction. It's not just because of any misalignment of his character from Houses. It's because within Hopes itself, Claude is just a moron that it is hard to take him and his thought processes seriously.

[bixels]

a drawing of miku by a white person wearing a hoodie is not indicative of culture

they think i'm white, chat.

[cozmic-ash]

Gordon/Barney/Alyx is really really funny to me conceptually bc it's like, two hot geniuses in their 20s who look at the 40-something smartass who hangs around and go 'yeah that guy. we both want him carnally'

[medicallyfascinating]

I don't like the agarthans.

And I don't mean this in the "Oh experimenting on children is bad" way because... yeah... obviously?

I mean this in the it takes away from other characters kind of way.

I'm mostly going to be focusing on Ferdinand in this rant but the agarthans take away from SO MANY CHARACTERS

One of the things that enrages me the most is how often Duke Aegir's actions are cushioned/absolved.

In three houses, in Ferdinand and Lysitheas paralogue, Lysithea says that Lord Arundel took over from Duke Aegir and upped the taxes so high that the people of Hrym couldn't survive.

WHY???

It is such an interesting plot point that Ludwig is greedy and self-serving and was slowly destroying Adrestia EVEN WITHOUT THE AGARTHANS

It's so interesting watching Ferdinand have to come to terms with all the awful things his father is done and, in turn, having to question his own beliefs and change and adapt his way of seeing the world so he can do the good he's always intended on doing.

This also jams a massive hole in Ferdinand's ENTIRE ARC during hopes where he's found tax reports and decides his father needs to be jailed because... it wasn't actually really Duke Aegir at all... it was the Agarthans???

MAKE IT MAKE SENSE

Don't even get me started on the brainwashing plot in hopes. WHY???? WHY SUGGEST THAT IS WHAT IS HAPPENING TO DUKE AEGIR???? It doesn't make sense and if it does, once again, it destroys Ferdinand's entire arc. He has to come to terms with something that DOESNT EXIST. And the excuse of "well edelgard and hubert made him think it" doesn't even work BECAUSE FERDINAND COMES TO THIS CONCLUSION HIMSELF- HE IS THE ONE WHO DECIDES THAT LUDWIG MUST BE EXECUTED- HE IS THE ONE WHO WANTS LUDWIG TO BE JAILED DESPITE HOW GUILTY HE FEELS

It deeply upsets me because Ferdinand's arc is so so so compelling in both houses and hopes. There are flaws, obviously, but in general, I love his arc so much and it's so frustrating to watch it be contradicted because for some reason the writers didn't want Ludwig to be a horrible awful terrible person.

Let Ludwig be a horrible awful terrible person.

Let Ferdinand have to come to terms with it.

Let Ferdinand break the cycle.

That is an infinitely more interesting and compelling plot than "Oh no, it was actually the evil guys all along haha"

And this is just Ferdinand. This isn't all the damage it does to ALL the other characters' storylines too.

[faerghusfucker]

my evolution as a fe3h fan is rlly funny to me lol. i played the game for the first time when i was 15 and now at 19 im playing through three hopes (yes im super late dont ask) and the fact that there have been times where ive been obsessed with EVERY HOUSE is rlly funny to me

at the start i was a claude and golden deer stan through and through bc funny meme house and also the nemesis fight

then when i was starting to get a little more politically minded i fell into the “edelgard did nothing wrong” camp because. yeah!!!! meritocracy!!!! united!!!! fuck religion!!!

and now as an adult with a lot more awareness and a lot less edgy atheism i came to the conclusion that not only is imperialism and destroying people’s lives for an ideal you have no concrete way of upholding bad, but the entire “let’s get rid of crests” argument is not even a solid one because it centers adrestia and doesn’t take into account the other two regions’ need for heroes relics.

correct me if i’m missing something or if i’m wrong, but no one in adrestia’s nobility actually has a hero’s crest. if they have crests, they’re saint crests, and saint crests have compatibility with sacred weapons, which are different to heroes relics because anyone can use them without turning into a beast.

additionally, adrestia doesn’t have any immediate neighbors that could cause them trouble. it doesn’t directly border a non-fodlan country, and they seem to have taken care of their brigid situation by kidnapping petra. the empire has no immediate threats.

the kingdom and alliance tho????? they border sreng and almyra respectively, which seem to invade at the drop of a hat and force houses gautier and goneril respectively to be in constant combat. those two houses literally DEPEND ON THEIR RELICS FOR SURVIVAL. until someone figures out a better way for them to defend their lands, they NEED crests!!!

obviously this isn’t necessarily a good thing, since we see the path that miklan and rufus as crestless older sons go down, but it’s not like the kingdom is exactly keen on keeping this in place either. in three hopes they talk a ton abt how crest bloodlines are dying out and how something needs to change. hell, sylvain is someone who directly benefits from faerghus’ crest dependency and yet in his supports with shez, he’s going and devising powerful weapons that people without crests can use!!! we see time and time again that the young nobles of faerghus are interested in the same things edelgard is: establishing a more equal society, and decreasing the need for crests. but why doesn’t she just collaborate with them to that end???? why doesn’t she hear dimitri out when he tries to talk her out of continuing on this path????

oh yeah. the church.

i’m probably gonna yap abt the church later lol i’m running out of steam on this ramble. tiktok is banned and so this is what i’ve resolved to do while i sip my morning coffee lol bear with me

[trashhicon]

Another tfe discourse post but I have a crappy gift at the end

I wasn’t going to say anything more about the tfe situation because I know some people are just haters but…

If you’re upset Robbie, a main character, is getting screen time and development, you’re in for a rude awakening because spoiler alert: shows develop their MAIN CHARACTERS

I for one am ECSTATIC they’re trying to develop the main cast and not have Robbie be like every other human kid (absolutely nothing burger). The fact he can actually fight along his siblings is fucking cool.

All this negativity because earthspark isn’t tfp is making me piss out shit bricks like what were you expecting??? It’s a different story.

Anyway here’s a starbee sketch I made so we can end this with love as much as the parasites want me to send hate. Spread love, be kind, give your friends a compliment, support a Palestinian charity because paramount isn’t going to, be good.

[faroreswinds]

If you want to read my tags for my GW playthrough, check out my tag my-playthrough. That will give you all of my.... thoughts and rages for GW. Including my incomplete final review, if you want to see it.

Actually, it was your posts that inspired me to make such posts myself, so I used a similar format!

Just be prepared for a LOT of raging and much anger haha.

And like you, this game made me warm up a bit more to Edelgard, make me dislike Claude, and made me adore Dimitri more than ever.

But please, take a gander at my thoughts! Watch out for spoilers, but I hope you find it cathartic!

Golden Wildfire Ch 11

On we go to ch 11. Things are . . . uh . . . interesting.

MAIN STORY

So if you didn't see ch 10, I failed to recruit Byleth. I retried the level a few time, but honestly I just want to finish this game so I didn't bother.

Plus, the reason I failed was that Claude just sat there instead of moving forward on the escort mission, which got really frustrating, and honestly I didn't want to bother.

Ugh, I don't want to fight the Kingdom.

So those Houses that wanted to defect to the Kingdom didn't because Claude's battle was that bloody in that fire map.

Poor Dimitri and co seems like he's just betting bullied for no real reason by two imperialistic maniacs.

I love how Arval is getting snooty over Shez getting credit for their tactics lamo.

Man, this dialogue is dragging.

So Nadar is going to cause diplomatic chaos by utilizing the Almyran army without getting real permission.

Wait, Claude riled up Sreng? So much for "ending racism" lamo. Wasn't having two cultures not be prejudice against each other like his MO? The writers really just threw him in the trash, hunh.

I feel so bad for Claude fans. He's really a piece of work in this.

MAP/SIDE STUFF

Everyone missing Judith has a lot more punch than Randolph. Even Monica was like "get over it" to Fleche (but nicely).

So, let me make sure I have this right. Mr. I Want to End Prejudice Between Cultures just provoked Sreng into attacking the Kingdom so Edelgard can take it over because Rhea is the reason for everything bad. Did I get that right?

Unlike SB, GW is entertaining as hell, but man is the logic here is just non-existant. And poor Claude RIP.

Like, I know I'm biased and all, but I don't see how you're supposed to be the heroes and not Dimitri here. The people just defending themselves are getting attacked on all 3 fronts for the crime of *existing.*

Not going to lie. I kinda wish Claude didn't side with you in AG either. It would've been hype to kick everyone's ass as Dimitri after getting cornered by all these land-grabbers.

GW!Claude is really just the mean girl's sidekick. 😂

If Felix and Rodrigue die in this chapter I swear to God . . . (I just remembered Rodrigue is dead in SB now 😭 - LET THIS MAN SURVIVE).

I had to fight Felix in a side mission. Lysithea said they had to "defend this place" - like, girl, you are invading.

When the challenge is "you can't dodge" but you're using Lorenz 😌👌 (FYI, he just does not take damage in this game)

SHEZ & HILDA A SUPPORT

They're talking about how Hilda exerted energy in a battle because she worried about Shez.

Hilda claims it's just self-defense bc she was cheering for Shez on the front lines and enemies were there (honestly, this is pretty boring so far)

It's the same-old Hilda claiming she's weak but that not being true.

SHEZ & CONSTANCE C SUPPORT

I know she's an Empire character, but whatever.

She wants to create new magics to restore her noble house and wants to research Shez bc of their weird magic

Lamo, Constance low-key called us dumb

Shez suggests she get her house back through military accomplishments.

Constance refuses to train right now, she wants to at night (it's her dual personality thing, right?)

CLAUDE & LYSITHEA B SUPPORT

Their first one. Claude's unhappy Lysithea charged in the last battle. But Lysithea kicked ass, so she's upset with Claude.

Claude calls her plan dumb and that he thought Lysithea was smarter than that. Lysithea still argues it ended earlier bc of her.

Lysithea doesn't back down.

Honestly, I side with her here. Claude's being patronizing. And it's rich of him not to care about all the other deaths dragging out the battle would cause and only Lysithea dying because she's *important*

CLAUDE & HOLST A SUPPORT

Oof, this one hurts. Claude accuses the church of creating all the systems to serve their own interests, because he doesn't know the truth here. That the Empire actually created most of it, and that all the church ever did was protect a genocided race from being murdered by more power-hungry humans.

It's also hysterical to hear Claude talk about wanting to improve foreign relations while instigating a war between two cultures.

Oof, Holst doesn't care about any of this. He's only worried Claude's going to send Hilda to marry a big, brown, scary foreigner. NOT a good look.

Holst says he cares more about Hilda's future than the whole Alliance. Yikes.

HILDA & HOLST A SUPPORT

They're preparing a feast.

Oh, it's nice to see Hilda's insecurities about Holst's "perfection" come up in this, bc so far she hadn't said much.

After that last support though, Holst is actually a pretty shitty leader.

Holst wants to make the feast all about Hilda instead of himself though. Hilda likes the attention.

Hilda basically had to set up her own feast lol.

HILDA & LINHARDT A SUPPORT

Hilda's cleaning, and Linhardt's honestly upset that he's lost a fellow lazy person.

Hilda claims she never pushes work on people. That, is a lie.

Linhardt is mostly worried how bad it'll look if he's the only one not working instead one of two.

All this support confirms that Linhardt is by far the superior lazy.

LORENZ & LYSITHEA A SUPPORT

Their only support.

So, not related to their support (and watch it counter it), but I find it pretty amusing how getting a leadership position faster matured Felix and Sylvain, but Lorenz is still a bit of a joke and the butt-end of every support he's in.

He's just bragging about how awesome his position and power is.

Lysithea says she's not inheriting her house. She claims it's because she doesn't like what comes with nobility, but we all know why.

She worried that the land will go to chaos without it's leaders though. Lorenz offers help (which, imo, he's actually mature here!)

Lorenz suspects she's turning it down for another reason and encourages her to rely on others to help.

RAPHAEL & LEONIE B SUPPORT

Raphael keeps snapping bows in half when he uses them. Leonie's shocked.

Leonie seems to actually make one and invites Raphael to test it while on guard duty with her.

IGNATZ & MARIANNE B SUPPORT

Marianne found his picture. He puts it down, but she likes it (it's a horse, well a pegasus, but of course)

Ignatz gets carried away talking about it, but Marianne finds it cute.

Ignatz finds Marianne loving pegasus cute. She blushes.

He wants Marianne's help, helping him paint a pegasus bc they don't like men, but if Marianne is around he can get closer and get a better painting. She's happy to help.

Honestly, this whole support is really cute.

MAIN BATTLE/STORY

It sucks having to attack the Kingdom over and over again when all they want to do is exist in peace.

Oh, joy, Nadar wants to plunder Faerghus. I can see why Fodlan is so evil for not wanting to let them do what they will.

GW really had a chance here to finally do something interesting with Almyra. It even marketed itself as a route that WOULD. But instead it's just doubled-down on Almyra being a one-note lawless place full of barbarians. At least we have Brigid and Duscur so the only brown country isn't some racist stereotype. Since it's only 1 of 3, it's not AS bad of a look.

Fuck. I don't want to kill Felix and Rodrigue. It would be one thing if the Kingdom actually provoked this, but Felix and Rodrigue haven't done anything to deserve this.

I get to recruit Ashe again. Is he miserable here too?

Ugh, I was hoping Felix and Rodrigue weren't here. It seems vastly unfair that it's only Kingdom characters who die for reel in this.

Wow. Claude's really an A-class asshole. He told Ashe to surrender because Dimitri wouldn't want him to die. Maybe don't invade for no reason then?

Is Claude also going to single Felix out as a citizen of Faerghus who deserves to live? Or does only Ashe count and not the nobles and unnamed grunts he's slaughtering because he decided to team up with the person who plans on taking over his rule? (not hate to Ashe at all, I honestly feel awful for him in this game)

Ok, so fighting Felix is just a side quest. I'd rather fail a side quest than fight Felix so, going to try to avoid having to kill him. Ugh, he's attacking the engineers. And he's damn right saying he has every right to kill the people who are invading his home.

Thank God, he just retreated.

I still love how Claude got bent out of shape over Ashe, but Lorenz alone has killed 500 citizens of Faerghus this chapter so . . .

Felix is so worried about Rodrigue. I swear the writers wanted you to feel like shit playing this route.

Oh, fuck. Just when I thought I was finished killing people for defending themselves, Daddy Gautier shows up :( He's sacrificing himself to safe Felix and Rodrigue, isn't he?

Oh, fuck. He died for real 😭

It's really hard to like these characters, making mindless chit-chat after killing Sylvain's daddy. I hope Sylvain fucks them up a new one.

I've never wanted to slap a character more than I'd love to slap Claude right now. The moron has the audacity to be surprised people are going to die while he's invading a foreign country. What a fucking stupid moron.

He's also blaming - get this right - chivalry.

I'm like. I'm speechless right now.

That's right guys. Margrave Gautier died defending his king, his country, his home, and most importantly one of his fucking best friends from an asshole invader. But it's CULTURE'S fault he died.

I'm really confused what the hell Claude thinks he's doing. Does he REALLY think killing Rhea will magically allow people to live as they please? Didn't he grow up in another country where they had princes and shit and NO Rhea?? All he's doing is making Edelgard's take over easier.

This is starting to feel like a borderline spoof. Look at us end the war by invading another nation!!! I mean???

What's his plan? Kill everyone in Faerghus - profit - "freedom" from Rhea - Edelgard takes over - no profit???

The writing in this route has gotten really fucking stupid. Like, I LIKE the idea of evil!Claude. Either a Claude who wants to take over all of Fodlan or one who's ruthless and will do anything to preserve Leicester.

But what I don't like is really fucking dumb Claude, which is what GW's devolved into.

Oh, God, now we get a flashback between father and son. Sylvain and Gautier :(

Sylvain better not be fucking recruitable in this route.

Now Sylvain's in charge 😭😭😭😭

I'm convinced someone who's a major Edelgard stan wrote the larger plot of this, but then a Dimitri stan wrote the actual dialogue 😅

We really go from one moment Claude being like - it's Rhea's fault Gautier died bc Kingdom culture bad because church bad to Sylvain being like, naw, he died defending his friends.

At the very least, I'll give Hopes credit here. At least they didn't write anyone opposing Edelgard as either evil or like they're idiots for resisting invasion, but I almost feel like they made the Kingdom especially too sympathetic which makes Edelgard look more interesting (since SB is more honest than CF) and Claude just look like a bozo. Rhea just doesn't look like anything since she's not even here.

Though, I REALLY wish Claude didn't side with us in AG. I really wish we got to see Faerghus backed into a corner and kick everyone's asses. They've very much the underdog and watching them do that would've been awesome.

Felix and Rodrigue are beating themselves up over this.

See, this is what I mean - Sylvain just said he's reserving all his hatred for the foreign invaders who take everything for no reason - I really feel like a Dimitri fan saw how everyone collectively decided to take a dump on the Kingdom in the big plot and got revenge by making everyone look like villains (or morons in Claude's case) for doing so in the writing.

xxx

[curse-d-owl]

Fire Emblem Three Hopes:

Dimitri fights civil wars to give Duscur their due reperations

Gave social mobility to the crestless commoners based on their merit

Edelgard hasnt done the same for Brigid

Rhea doesn't hinder nor protest against Dimitri reforming Faerghus's current system she designed

Edelgard doesnt offer any dialogue with the opposing rulers

Falsely accuses them of keeping fodlans stagnant

Immediately jumps to war and conquest that endangers Faerghus and Leicester

Attempts to conquer Leicester despite having nothing to do with the central church

Kills Dimitri's citizens, soldiers and loved ones in her unjustified war

Puts Faerghus in a kill or be killed situation

Attempted to kill Dimitri

Ingrid had to sacrifice her life so that Dimitri can escape with his life intact

Burns any bridge for diplomacy and amends.

Throws out an empty promise that she'll leave Faerghus alone if he severs with the already reformed central church

Dimitri rightfully doesn't trust her empty promises and fights back against her invasion.

Edelgard proves his suspicions right by still attacking Faerghus after the central church's downfall

Edelgard is the cause of this war and the obstacle to peace

The smartest Edelgard fans:

Edelgard didn't lie. Dimitri brought Edelgard's invasion on himself cause he refused her offer. He has no reason to distrust her, he's a paranoid aggressor that stands in Edelgard's way and he's the cause of this conflict. Yes I am smart and you're the idiot here.

[deathbirby]

Edelgard’s lack of interest in looking into the history of Fodlan beyond what her (dubiously reliable) father and (fantasy Nazi torture squad) TWSITD tell her is such a clear and glaring character flaw that so many of her “did nothing wrong” fans defend as Good, Actually. Like I can’t wrap my head around it, we know that there’s so much about the history of the continent that El either doesn’t or refuses to learn and while it’s understandable in some ways why she can’t it’s still like. Bad. It’s so clear that if her actual goal was liberation then she would’ve done more research, gone to the church and told them that hey, the Slitherers™️ are at it again and we need to do something. But she doesn’t, because that’s not actually her goal… it’s conquest of the other two nations and an overturning of the current system to favor her (mostly already privileged) friends, plain and simple. But people who either didn’t play any routes but CF or just didn’t pay attention/have poor media analysis skills love to say otherwise. Bluh.

I still can't get over how she was tortured and lost all her siblings to TWSITD and decided that the CHURCH was the biggest threat.

Edelgard 100% believes she is in the right and is the ONLY person who is right and thus is the ONLY person who can bring about change. And with "change" I mean "unify Fodlan and bring it under the control of the Adrestian Empire like it was in the past".

At no point does she consider that Wilhelm's history could've been tampered with, or simply been misunderstood after a whole millenia has passed. And why not? Because it's the only thing that drives her hatred for the church, and if it was disproven then she has no leg to stand on? Probably!

[real-fire-emblem-takes]

Three Hopes is a Good Game. It gave us maps with territory outlines and more character interactions and Dimitri with a ponytail and Edelgard without cinnamon roll hair and Claude with trauma and Shez's empty little head and it gave us Holst and empire dads!

I see so many people complain about it and say how it doesn't exist to them for being out of character, but I really do think it's a Good Game

.

[faroreswinds]

Claude did the right thing. If a caste system based on bloodlines and legitimized by an immortal who holds technology back for society requires war to take it down then so be it. And Claude used kid gloves on Faerghus too.

Does killing Rhea end the caste system? Why?

And what right does Edelgard and Claude have to decide to remove that caste system, as you say, from another country?

And I would say Claude went in guns blazing, considering he didn't even try to talk to Dimitri first.

[gascon-en-exil]

Considering the undeniable fact that Edelgard was written for men and not them, what do you think that says about her lesbian fans? Are they following the wrong character? Or better question, does she truly have a significant sapphic fandom to begin with?

This is a difficult question for me to answer directly, because I'm not a lesbian. I've gotten a variety of comments from queer women addressing issues related to this on my relevant videos, with the range of responses being overall mixed. Even those who can enjoy Edelgard as a bi option (and/or her other F/F prospects) are usually still aware of IS's blatant misogyny in the way they handle their female characters, and acknowledge that these conversations are useful to have.

I think Monica's writing in Hopes sums up very well just how little the writers of these games are thinking about lesbians when they craft these characters and situations. Monica's attraction to Edelgard is treated as one long joke at her own expense, one that Edelgard appears to humor at best but never really understands. It's especially galling because this is the same game that takes a remarkably sober approach to Shamir's attraction to women, both in general and to Catherine specifically. There's also the matter of the M/M subtext, which as ever exists in a blind spot of straight male writers. With Dimidue alone, we have a situation where men are saying stuff like "You are irreplaceable, cherished" and "I cannot know happiness without you by my side" and holding hands and each other's gazes for something like fifteen seconds in an animated cutscene...and still expect us to believe that that's only platonic devotion. (As far as lord + retainer ships go, hold up Monigard and Dimidue side-by-side, and it's very obvious that IS is laughing at the former and isn't aware that the latter could even have romantic dimensions.)

The majority of IS's sapphic material exists in a different, though comparable blind spot: that lesbians exist as profitable titillation for straight men, and are always subject to the male gaze and the potential interposition of a male proxy for the audience (the Avatar, usually) because women's attraction toward one another isn't something to be taken seriously. Out of the various examples of F/F subtext and text in the entirety of FE, I feel like I could claim Heather from Radiant Dawn as maybe the only instance where the writers were thinking of actual queer women - and even then Heather is still mostly mild comic relief.

(As far as "following the wrong character" goes re: the fandom faction wars, there's always been the consistent irony that Rhea is subject to much of the same open objectification, ex. her summer duo alt with F!Byleth, and even gets to be a same-sex S rank as well. Humorously, this parallel or its implications is pretty much never brought up whenever Rhea's getting roasted as the Worst Ever.)

It's difficult to tell exactly how much of Edelgard's fanbase is sapphic. Of course Tumblr and AO3 skew queer as a rule, but those are just two sites; there's also Twitter and Reddit and SF and GameFAQs and 4chan and art sites like Pixiv and DeviantArt. We also know for a fact that at least two of the most prominent and combative elements in the pro-Edelgard side of the fandom are straight/bi men producing F/F Edeleth fanwork...which I remark on only as a counter to the frequent accusation that Dimitri fans are all horny fujoshi. How that does or doesn't play into what you're asking is hard to say - although one of them tends to get rather pissed when anyone brings something like that up and may still be stalking my blog.

It'll be interesting to see what troll anons I get now.

[bowbowis]

Wait! Not Like That!

It's rather telling that people who complained about Edelgard not trying to talk to Dimitri and Claude in Houses get upset about her winning Claude over by talking in Hopes.

It seems many of them weren't actually interested in seeing Edelgard try to advance her aims diplomatically and just wanted (and expected) Dimitri and Claude to convince her that an oppressive feudal theocracy isn't worth rebelling against. They certainly weren't expecting Edelgard to get one of the boys on her side instead.

Turns out even the magic of mansplaining isn't enough to overcome a well made case.

[faerghusfucker]

i didn’t actually realize that some ppl don’t criticize media/characters out of love and that’s BONKERS to me

like i’m super edelgard critical BECAUSE i think she’s awesome and compelling and wonderfully written lol. i’ve never understood the fandom thing of interpreting critique as a call to defend your fave’s honor lol it’s just. media analysis. do you guys not think abt the characters you love outside of just admiring them??????

[curse-d-owl]

I've talked about Edelgard's faults on seperate occasions but i want to make a good summary on all of her faults, the bad writing behind her character and the bad arguments her fans use to defend her.

She's a worse villain than what she and her fans accuses Claude and Dimitri of being and she's Rhea's equal in immorality.

She waged a senseless war for conquest based on false accusations and on top of that she witnessed counter evidence and still couldn't put 2 and 2 together, shes too inept to lead a whole continent, her idiocy caused her to make enemies out of allies and vice versa, she's a violent racist, grants no quarter to her already beaten enemies and is not only guilty of commiting war crimes but also crimes against peace and humanity. Edelgard isn't better than Claude and Dimitri and the latter 2 aren't worse than Edelgard.

Shes a violent war monger who will kill as many people as she can for selfish control, shes delusional, the untrustworthy snake Claude is accused off, the bloodthirsty monster that Dimitri gets called out for, complicit in the crimes of the Agarthans, has no qualms sacrificing defenseless civilians to achieve her goals like Rhea and is callous enough to proudly lie about the deaths she caused in Leicester through her unjustified invasion in Golden Wildfire.

On top of that shes politically and socially inept. She doesn't tackle true class inequality like the oppressed and underprivileged suffering poverty, harsh labor with little pay, lack of healthcare, lack of education etc. She only whines about crest based nepotism and how it prevents the strong from getting their rightful place at the top. She doesn't focus on helping the weak get stronger, she only cares about the strong. It took Ferdinand, another noble who was raised with a silver spoon to point out that commoners need a proper environment to get stronger through education in their supports and in the timeskip.

If she can't even use basic observation, logic and can't put 2 and 2 together then she has no right to rule a continent, let alone use war to achieve that goal.

She waged a pointless war based on the false accusations that Rhea and the other rulers are violently against getting rid of the crest system and cause of it ruined tens and thousands of lives and hurt the oppressed even more.

She condemned the goddess infront of Gilbert in defense of Miklan without a singular consquence and yet she and her fans are under the delusion that you'll be killed for criticising the status quo and that war is the only way to fix the issues at hand.

If the other rulers were the pro crest villains she accused them off being then crests would've remained in fodlan but they aren't and they got rid of crests without Edelgard's input since she never told them the crest system needs to be gone. Her war did nothing except kill and destroy countless lives.

Ironically her war and her losing in 3 out of 4 routes has actually elevated the importance behind crests and the seiros faith cause 1. The deciding factor of the wars are crests, she utilized crests to it's utmost and she a violent war monger that lost against religion she condemned. Again, were the other rulers and nobles for crests then the system would've stayed but it didn't and it's not thanks to Edelgard.

She's also a violent racist. Her support for Brigid is conditional and only rights Adrestia's wrongs when they fight her unjustified war, keeps them under vassalage for refusing to fight her war and attempting to kill Petra and her people from liberating Brigid from her oppression.

She's also racist towards Duscur by feeding into the lie that they're responsible for the tragedy, didn't call out the injustice of Faerghus and the Church for being complicit in their genocide of Duscur while she did defend a abhorrent criminal like Miklan and in the Japanese script said she didn't care about the tragedy of Duscur to Dimitri.

Edelgard is not only guilty of heinous war crimes but shes also guilty of crimes against peace and crimes against humanity.

On top of waging a war of aggression one of her many crimes involve using her citizens as meatshields and unleashing demonic beasts in the capital capable of causing mass destruction with no regard for her citizens.

The writers tried to make her a sympathetic morally gray character when in reality she is a delusional villain who doesn't get treated like the villain that she is.

Good intentions and doing evil things does not make a character morally gray if the end goal never required evil in the first place. Again, it makes them an idiotic villain.

Edelgard is a poorly executed character, she isn't better than Claude and Dimitri and vice versa.

Below are all the other arguments I've come across defending this poorly written character.

"Edelgard is fast while the others are slow and ineffective. Only she can restore Fodlan"

False.

If anything in Hopes Dimitri is the one who's the fastest and the most radical out of 3. He's the revolutionary you hallucinate Edelgard as.

Claude was stuck in the detrimental debates of the roundtable and Edelgard has done nothing except prepare for war.

"You get violently executed for criticising the Seiros faith, war was the only answer"

She condemned and blamed the goddess for Miklan's heinous crimes and reprecussions ( as if he isn't inherently malicious enough to kill his younger brother over power and luxury ) Infront of Gilbert, a high ranking and pious commander of the knights of Seiros.

Which highlights her racism by not extending that same defense for the violently oppressed people of Duscur and feeding into the lie that they're responsible for the tragedy.

"Edelgard isn't a racist cause she wants to free Brigid"

Her support for Brigid is conditional. She has no qualms endangering Petra, a traumatized and political hostage of her empire, to death, cripplement and damage, wants to drag Brigid into her war by sending her a letter to join her conquest and also threatened her with an ultimatum, Hubert attempted to use blackmail to prevent her and the other black eagles from fighting back against her dangerous and selfish war, she refuses to release Brigid from the Empire's imperialism and is willing to kill Petra and her people for liberating their homeland and standing against Edelgard's brutality.

Your so called revolutionary saviour is a violent oppressor.

"Brigid isn't a victim of imperialism cause they attacked the empire first."

That's not how logic and morality works

That braindead logic denies Duscur their victimhood cause on the surface their allegedly guilty for the death of the king, it denies Cyril's victimhood at the hands of house Gonerils and it pardons Adrestia, Faerghus, Leicester and the central church of their involvment and complicity in the crimes they've committed.

You all pretend to care about Duscur and Cyril but the moment Adrestia is held accountable for their violent racism you show your true colors by justifying it.

"Brigid should wait patiently for Edelgard to give them their independence back for just a little bit cause she doesn't need to he inconvenienced by fighting civil wars

Dimitri only righted Faerghus's wrongs by killing his corrupt uncle and fighting civil wars"

So first you argue that reforms should be rapid by any means necessary, that slow reforms are detrimental and a sign of bad leadership and argue that Edelgard is the former while Dimitri is the latter but the moment i prove that the opposite is true now all of a sudden violent revolutions are bad and slow and ineffective reforms at the detriments of the oppressed is the way the go.

Yall are some spineless frauds lmao.

"Forsaking the goddess doesn't mean that you forsake the goddess because everyone does it"

That's not how logic works + Then by that braindead logic Dimitri didn't kill the imperial invaders because everyone kills in Fodlan. Actions mean things.

"Rhea sends assassin's if you reform your region"

She send assassin's after Edelgard declared war against Rhea, not cause she reformed her territory. Were that the case then Dimitri should've been pressured by Rhea the same way Edelgard allegedly was but he didnt

"War was inevitable"

Doesn't give you the right to start one and doesn't absolve you of the crimes you've commited

"Edelgard isn't complicit in the crimes of the Agarthans committed"

Yes she is and by that logic neither Ludwig, Hubert's father or any of the insurrectionists arent complicit in the deaths of Edelgard's siblings and her traumatic experience. By that moronic logic Rhea isn't complicit in the colonizing and ethnic cleansing of Duscur.

Plus she literally admitted in her Hopes support with Hubert that they're not longer complicit in the crimes of the agarthans after they got rid of them. Your own fave disagrees with you lmfao

"She only did it because Hubert urged her to cooperate with the agarthans"

She's a fully functioning adult capable of making her own decisions. One moment you claim Edelgard is a wise, revolutionary saviour ( LMFAO ) who knows exactly what the people need and then the next moment she's a drooling infant who shouldn't be held accountable for the actions of her caretakers.

Besides Hopes literally proves that she can and will go against Hubert's advise despite his heavy protests.

"In Hopes Dimitri declared war on Adrestia by aiding the church"

The kingdom can't exist without the church and the monarchs are obligated to protect the central church from harm. By declaring war on the church she declared war on the kingdom. Not to mention her entire goal was to conquer Fodlan anyways. Quit embarrassing yourself.

"She spares her enemies unlike her bloodthirsty counterparts"

"Judith had to be killed cause otherwise the fighting would prolong and more lives would be lost"

She fed Kostas to the wolves by letting him get killed ( not defending him ) She killed Judith despite retreating and refusing her a chance to surrender.

Which is in stark contrast to her sparing Lysithea in the next chapter and in Hopes securing a surrender from Jeralt after killing Rodrigue.

Claude and Dimitri offer Edelgard a chance to surrender and she responds to that olive branch with senseless violence.

In Hopes she secured a surrender and cooperation from a large territory like Gloucester and her region isn't anywhere close to her path to Deirdru. Her death was not required.

Plus if anyone can use the excuse it's Claude, Dimitri and Seteth. Theyre the victims of her aggression and had smaller numbers compared to Edelgard's violent forces and yet they get selectively condemned for the same thing you defend Edelgard for. Unlike Edelgard they're put in a kill or be killed situation.

"Dimitri wants to kill Edelgard over a false accusations"

1. There's also the fact she committed heinous crimes from white clouds till their fight and is hellbent on destroying everything he holds dear. Don't leave out that part now.

2. And so did Edelgard towards Byleth, Claude and Dimitri, even after losing the war and being granted an olive branch she doesn't even deserve. She was willing to kill more lives if it meant she and she alone can rule Fodlan.

"Edelgard is justified in killing Claude cause he is a snake"

Edelgard is the true snake. Especially out of the 3 lords and yet she gets an olive branch despite her conniving nature and her heinous crimes.

"She didn't try to kill anyone in the holy tomb cause the students retreat instead of dying"

The respective house leader and Byleth still die when they are defeated. She's sends armed soldiers, a sadistic assassin and demonic beasts after them in the holy tomb. It's a fight to the death, not a pillow fight.

Edelgard puts them in a kill or be killed situation cause after everything that's happened in white clouds they cant allow the flame emperor and the agarthans to do as they please.

"Edelgard isn't an evil villain cause she doesn't have evil intentions like the Agarthans and she's sad about the deaths needed to make her dream come true"

1. You don't give Claude, Dimitri and Rhea that same grace for also having good faith intentions so you can't cry that Edelgard is held to your standards

2. You can have all the good intentions in the world, if you're crimes is unjustified you're evil. Plain and simple.

3. She proudly denied the deaths she caused in Leicester, barks at Claude as if he's overreacting while simultaneously gets very angry at Claude for simply pointing out that she's indebted to him

"Dimitri and Rhea are out for Edelgard's blood"

Edelgard attacked them first and wants them dead in the ground. Funny how that works.

"Dimitri gets away with all the crimes he's committed and is in fact rewarded by ruling Fodlan"

You're saying this as if Edelgard isn't objectively worse than Dimitri and how she let Jeritza run around freely in his solo ending despite him being worse than Dimitri.

"Dimitri should step down and be imprisoned"

Keep it consistent and hold Edelgard to the same standard. The only reason she stepped down and foisted her position as ruler onto someone else so she can gorge on sweets as if she didn't bleed fodlan dry.

"The other lords commit war crimes"

Quit pretending you care about war crimes when you bend over backwards to defend Edelgard's war crimes, crimes against peace and crimes against humanity.

One of her many crimes involve using her citizens as meatshields and unleashing demonic beasts in the capital capable of causing mass destruction with no regard for her citizens.

[real-fire-emblem-takes]

Its wild how half of the avatars are just the prettiest girl ever or an ugly roach…

Shez and Alear are pretty girls regardless of gender

Shez!