#can’t believe it’s my turn to troll the nonnie

[sspaz1000]

I feel like I’ve made it in fandom when I finally get harassed by a Nonnie who think’s certain actor’s careers are over just because they aren’t working 24/7.

Work/life balance baby!

Also same anon hated on another SC cast member a year or so ago as well.

Show business ebbs and flows. And since Noah does TV, Film, Theatre, Music, Voice Work he can have multiple things going.

I just don’t get the OMG career doomed if you aren’t working 24/7. Mentally that’s a shitty thing. He’s been in the business almost 29 years. Pretty sure he knows what he’s doing.

But nonnie if you actually do some research and can provide legit resources and documentation share it.

[orionsangel86]

As a fan and a shipper, this is it, Saz. Misha is done with the show, Cas is dead, Dean won't probably mention anything about this and he is canonically straight at this point. Please don't get your hopes up.

You know... Untill last night I was actually more inclined towards your thinking. I’m happy to admit it. the negativity got me down. Misha’s various comments over the past year got me down. 2020 as a year, GOT ME DOWN.

I struggled with this over and over again for a long time. I was convinced that Cas was dying, and whilst I knew he would be back in 20, I was terrified that it would be some bit part right at the very end which had little relevance and that any happy ending for Dean and Cas was hopeless.

However there was always one little glimmer of hope in my poor bruised heart, and that hope was Destiel itself, because I always figured that if they actually went there with Destiel, then there was absolutely no way that they could end the season badly. Like, NO WAY.

But even after all these years of being a positive meta writer, and writing essay after essay on the validity of the Destiel interpretation of the text and believing with every cell in my body that Destiel was a real and true love story... I was still terrified. I was terrified that it wouldn’t happen, because there were plenty of reasons why it wouldn’t happen. Reasons I have been over several times before.

And yet I could never ignore my own eyes, my own logical observations and my understanding of story narrative and storytelling tropes, of production set up, of art departments and direction, cinematography and music, and everything that makes up a TV show. EVERYTHING ALWAYS POINTED TO DESTIEL.

So even though I was terrified, I still had faith in Destiel. Right up until the end. I had faith in Destiel and it was the only thing still giving me hope in a happy ending, because the way my logical brain works, I figured if they gave us canon Destiel, then a happy ending was very much on the cards. Even if Cas died after confessing, the very nature of storytelling would mean that it wouldn’t end that way, that Cas would have to come back, and that Dean and Cas would get the happy ever after they so desperately deserve.

When I went to bed last night, I was overcome with a sense of awe and fear. That the next morning I would wake up and I would know. I would know if I was right all this time, if over 6 years of obsession, passion, and dedication towards this love story was all worth it, or if we were destined for doom. Some of my friends tried to reassure me that even if it didn’t happen in this episode, it could still happen in the finale, but I’ll be honest, at that point I was adamant it was this episode, or not at all. I was TERRIFIED.

the thought occurred to me right before I closed my eyes to go to sleep, knowing the episode had already started in the states: “If it happens Sarah, then the ending will be happy. Cas will live.”

When I first saw the news this morning (I had asked my US friend Jen to send me a green and a blue heart in a text if Destiel happened so I would be prepared. No green and blue heart text would mean a social media blackout for me for another few weeks) my heart jumped into my throat. It happened. It’s canon.

Throughout the day today my emotions have been all over the place. From utter elation through to confusion and anger at some reactions, but also apprehension, because there are still so many people so negative and so certain that this was it for Cas.

But I realise now, that I do have far more hope that I thought I had, that those flutterings in my soul that awoke when I saw those wonderful green and blue heart emojis first thing this morning have now blossomed into butterflies of absolute joy. It wasn’t the scene from the actual episode that did this either, nope. It was Misha.

I thought I was so mad at him. Constantly going on about Cas’s death, and how sacrifice was the way he wanted to go out. I realised something as I scrolled through his likes on Twitter. It was all a fucking act.

Misha Collins. Troll extraordinaire. He well and truly pulled the wool over our eyes. He played up the doom and gloom to cover for the true surprise. The true secret ending that no one was allowed to even hint at. I completely and utterly fell for it, as did most die hard Cas fans. That utter bastard. :P

Nonny, please read my next words very carefully again and again if you have to, because I really hope that they sink in.

Misha is a good person. So is Bobo Berens. The two of them have been on Twitter liking Destiel tweets and effectively confirming it is canon - not that Cas is in love with Dean, no, that Destiel is canon. The difference, is that Destiel is requited love.

If it had ended in 15x18, if Cas’s confession, which left Dean stunned and unable to reciprocate, was truly the end, do you honestly think the gay man and the actor whose fanbase is massively LQBTQ, would allow one of the most beloved characters of all time, to FINALLY come out of the closet, confess his love, and then subsequently die and spend ETERNITY in SuperHell?!?

The fact that they were SO HAPPY WITH THEMSELVES. Because lets be honest here, Misha wouldn’t be liking all our dumb Destiel shitposting tweets if he didn’t know for sure that that happy feeling was gonna stick. Neither would Bobo.

This is just the start of the epic Destiel endgame. Castiel has said his part, now it’s Dean’s turn. I should have listened to my brain all this time. There is no way this ends badly. It just can’t. I refuse to believe it anymore. I’m finally stepping out of the dark and into the rainbow.

@tinkdw you were right all along.

[sometimesrosy]

so i've seen you call octavia abusive towards bellamy, but i've never really seen you explain that. in my opinion, bellamy is much more abusive and controlling towards octavia, especially during seasons five and six. i mean, telling your clearly suicidal sister that she should die multiple times? obviously, their relationship is unhealthy all around due to it's codependency, but i think bellamy is much more abusive to octavia, and i was curious why you saw it differently!

You have? Really?

Because I got into a WHOLE lot of trouble when I said Octavia didn’t abuse him during season 3 and 4. Like the kind where half the bellarke fandom came after me and I got called a racist and an abuse apologist and told that I was not allowed to speak about mixed race people and mixed race relationships as a mixed race person and needed to be silent when a black woman told me about how mixed race families were inherently racist. 

Actually nonny, it sounds like you’re a troll.

You think BELLAMY is abusive in the season where Octavia was tyrant who put people to death because she wanted to and forced people to march to their death in battle and killed them when they tried to run away from her and INDEED threw Bellamy into the fighting pit because she wanted to keep power. You think Bellamy is more abusive because he told her he wished a part of her would die, when she ACTUALLY sentenced him, clarke and echo to death and also doomed everyone in the valley and almost all her own people to death? And you also ignore the part where she told HIM she wanted him to die and also beat him terribly in s3 and 4? 

What absolute nonsense. 

Their relationship was (was past tense because now at s7 it isn’t) was unhealthy. Because he was her jailer as well as her father substitute, because he gave up his life for her multiple times, because she didn’t think of him as a human being. 

If he is abusive at any point, it’s in season 1 when he locked her up so she couldn’t do what she wanted. That was a harmful part of their relationship. He learned to let her go though. To let her make her own choices. SHE then turned around and blamed everything in the world on him. 

HOWEVER, in season 3 and 4 my claim was that Octavia was a young person in crisis, and she had the POTENTIAL to become abusive, but because I believe that abuse is a pattern of abuse of power, and O didn’t have the power or the pattern yet, that she wasn’t abusive there. She assaulted him. still illegal in our world. LATER in season 5, when she was the tyrant of wonkru, she became abusive, yes. 

When the abuse victim stands up and says “no you will not hurt me any more. you are responsible for your own actions and i will not put up with your toxicity anymore,” THAT IS NOT ABUSE.

That is an end to ENABLING the abuser. He stood by her side and gave her the chance to change, and she Did Not. In fact, she completely ignored him, the leader of the part, and killed people anyway. She was actively harming their group and their ability to survive their new world because all she knew was violence. She HAD to go on her own. She had to make the changes on her own. And she was RESPONSIBLE for all the harm she caused. Stop blaming other people for Octavia’s villainy. 

“How dare you tell me to stop hurting people, can’t you see my pain? You are abusing me!”

give me a break.

Wonder why I see it otherwise? Because your POV is the POV of the abuser. That’s the kind of reasoning my abuser had when I told him no more and kicked him out. 

[thejustmaiden]

After that event in August 1st, where the VAs of Sesshomaru and Rin revealed the twins' designs, the Jaken's VA send a letter on twitter (i don't have the link im sorry) where he congratulated to them as "newly weds" and he said that he wishes Rin hapiness. What do you think about this? Do you think this is a confirmation that Rin is the mother?

Hey there, nonnie! Thanks for passing through. Apologies it took some time to respond. ☺

So based on what I know, no, I do not take this is as confirmation that Rin is the mother. That's not to say she can't turn out to be it, I just wouldn't use this as evidence. The letter you are referring to never actually mentioned anything about a wedding or newly weds, as that rumor has been debunked.

Since it's almost been a month already, I had to refresh my memory and ask a couple others to recall what exactly it was that Jaken said to Sesshomaru and Rin throughout that livestream. Jaken's VA couldn't make it to the event or maybe it was that he wasn't invited, Idk.

First thing's first, it wasn't only a single letter Jaken('s VA) sent. It was 3 separate ones- one to Sesshomaru, one to Rin, and one to the audience. Now I'm not sure about the order they were showed in, but in this instance I don't think it matters all that much.

In the letter to the audience, he was wishing everyone the best during these trying times of covid-19.

The second was to Sesshomaru. In this particular letter he says he "doesn't understand" in reference to either something happening or what Sesshy did/said. He also says he hopes he's doing well.

The third letter was for Rin. He says something along the lines of "my daughter, I wish you well."

All in all, the three letters were pretty short and vague. There is however no mention of a marriage or a congratulations.

I believe what happened was that a lot of pro-Sessrin fans took his wishes for Rin to mean she got married to Sesshomaru. I think the confusion started because the contents of all letters were initially believed to be only the one letter.

This part has bugged me forever haha but I'm still not sure why Jaken being her dad has to automatically mean Sesshomaru isn't like one, too. By leaving him out one assumes so, I guess? Or why does Jaken being Rin's dad somehow translate to Sesshomaru being her husband? Please explain to me how we arrived at such a wild deduction. I suppose we can partially owe these interpretations to fans getting overly excited and carried away.

There's just so many (unknown) factors we have to take into account. If I were a Sessrin shipper, I'd probably jump to a similar if not the same conclusion ngl. It would be hard not to "read between the lines" and take these small potential clues as proof, but fans must be wary. I totally get the temptation, alright, but wishful thinking may be getting the best of us if we allow ourselves to mistake potential fanbait for legitimate assurance something will guaranteed happen.

The way I look at it, keeping the mom a mystery is nothing but a marketing ploy to keep all sides of this fandom appeased for as long as possible until the sequel is out.

If we try and acknowledge only the facts provided to us (accompanied with as little bias as possible), then all I'm really witnessing is Jaken dedicating sweet handwritten letters to his beloved Lord Sesshomaru and his former traveling companion/sister/daughter Rin. I'm not sure why they can't simply be letters without turning them into some riddle we need to solve or a code we need to crack.

Sunrise is well aware of the risk Sessrin going canon poses. But if Sunrise decided to go through with it and the mom is just going to end up being Rin anyway, what's with all the secrecy? Especially seeing as that livestream with her VA present would've been the perfect opportunity to reveal it. The entire fandom- shippers and antis alike- were expecting it. So what gives? For some reason Sunrise insists on keeping the mom's identity a secret, which tells me one of two things:

1) it's a new character

and/or

2) she's integral to the plot for this sequel

Supposedly Rumiko was behind the idea of keeping the mom's identity hidden, which makes this predicament that much more curious. One fan recently pointed out in the comments section for an ask I answered 2 days ago here that the VAs from that livestream keep talking about Jaken being a dad to Rin probably to "protect their products." Although this is a valid point, we must consider it from the opposing side. A similar and sound reasoning can be applied to a counter-argument, as well.

What I mean by that is what if the VAs' efforts to go out of their way to please the Sessrin fandom could be partly due to the fact that they want to give those fans a little something knowing what's in store. They know what's to come won't go in their favor, but better to give them crumbs and keep them satisfied and engaged until the sequel than nothing at all. We've all been there before, where we get hooked by the promo interviews but the end results wind up being almost nothing like those actors described it. It can be disappointing when we allow ourselves to get our hopes up high, but it happens all the same. The baiting/trolling stops for no one, ha! Of course I'm directing this at all Inuyasha fans, not only Sessrin fans. Gods know I've been guilty of being let down, I just pray this time ain't one of them. 😉

Yes, I'm well aware that many of the staff on Inuyasha support or even ship Sessrin. We must however remind ourselves that this wouldn't be the first time staff shipped a pairing on a series they worked for, but that doesn't necessarily mean these ships go canon either. In all actuality, I'd say most if not all times these pairings in question never go canon. The shippers among the staff can create all the unofficial merchandise or advertisement they want- drama cds, calendars, what have you- but that may be all they're allowed to do when all is said and done. At the end of the day, those aren't what ultimately shape and define the story Sunrise and Rumiko are collaborating on together. Let's just hope this ain't solely some cash grab and that Rumiko isn't a sellout. If neither is the case, we may very well have ourselves a decent sequel. 🤞🤞

[flyingcatstiel]

I thought the bday video was cute until I looked up what Dirge meant. With Misha saying Cas story ending will be sad, final and proud, I can't help but put more weight into the "Dirge" word. As much as I appreciate the video, Jensen pushing the spntapeball (head) to the floor at the end and the Dirge word, and Mishas words about Cas ending is turning me into a nervous wreck. I decided to read about and then watch final episodes. Now scared to read about them when they air. :-(

Nonnie, you are killing me. Now I had to look up what “dirge” means. Oh, “ a slow sad song or piece of music, sometimes played because someone has died”. Ok, let’s talk about the last stretch of SPN. First of all, for past couple of years I have been intentionally distancing myself from the show even as I kept watching it. I hope the show can’t hurt me anymore, so I plan to watch last 7 eps and I’m here if you want to talk about them. Second, I really truly honestly advice all Cas fans who feel anxious not to watch it live, or at least, last 3 episodes when the shit goes down. Make a decision never to watch last episodes if you must, only read about what happens. I heard this helped some fans to deal with the Games of Thrones finale. Just reading about all the stupid stuff is less painful than watching it.Take care of yourself, know your limits.

Now about possible Cas fate, what we know from spoilers and speculations, under the cut. Read it with a grain of salt because I’m just repeating what I have seen around. I think it’s quite possible that something like this will happen, but also, SPN writers are known to give fans what they want but not the way they expect it.

!! SPOILERS !!

Nonnie, it has been speculated long time ago that Cas will die or will be taken by the Empty in 15x18. Most likely Cas will be missing from 15x19, the episode they were filming today when Misha wasn’t on the set. It has been speculated that Dean may kill Cas while being mind controlled or something. Spoilers say that 15x19 will be the ending Chuck wants - bleak, tragic, etc. Mean ppl say it will be the ending for bronlies (extra cookie - brothers have no idea who Cas is, so yay, we get a whole episode without Dean even mentioning Cas). Jensen said that 15x19 is s15 finale and 15x20 is the series finale, w/e that means. So dirge really makes sense here.

We know that Cas will be back in 15x20. Misha said as much. Misha also has said that Cas’ ending will be poignant, sad and proud, that it will be final. Before he said that he wants Cas to have a meaningful death, good sacrifice (har har s12 finale, stabbed in the back, left in the dirt). There are several ways to interpret these statements. 1/ Misha is trolling; 2/ Misha is hinting at real ending to prepare Cas fans; 3/ Misha has been told by TPTB to hint at tragic end to prepare fans so he shock wave is not so huge; 4/ final ending = human Cas.

My personal, overly optimistic opinion is that Cas will not die physically, but we may get something like Cas sealed in Heaven and Dean staying on earth, like Rose and Tenth Doctor. When I’m extra salty, I imagine that the show will pair up Cas with Kelly as Jack’s guardians because lol, dontcha remember when Cas and Kelly were put on the same funeral pyre like a couple?

Cas could sacrifice himself during the last battle like Spike in BtVS finale, and knowing that SPN writers love to steal from Whedon we could get some kind of love confession. Which means nothing if Cas dies, sorry guys, it means nothing.

Human Cas is my least favorite ending, even if I really love reading fics with human Cas. But that’s because in fics Cas explores his humanity, he learns, he grows. Becoming human in the last episode of his 100+ episode run when he never even said in s15 that he wants to be human is useless. It’s an empty prize. Becoming human so he could stay with Dean the Winchesters is a cheap trick , a bare bone thrown at destiel shipper who now can go and write their fics and do all the hard work the writers refused to do. Because, after “you are dead to me”, Cas has to realize that his place in the bunker, even now, is precarious. I’m not sure if Cas wants to risk to be kicked out of bunker as a human for a second time.

I’m sure I’m forgetting some speculations, but the long and short of it is that, yes, SPN writers will use Cas as an angst fodder. No, don’t believe fandom metas that say that it is good for destiel. It is not. If Cas really dies in 15x18, if the show really needs to kill Cas again to resolve some plot points, to make Dean to grow a pair, then it is the most blatant admission that Cas death in s12 finale was absolute waste. They put Cas fans through that misery 3 years ago for nothing. And they are doing it again. They are dangling Cas fate in front of us in hopes we will watch the show. I say we ignore them. Love Cas, forget about the show.

[migleefulmoments]

“she had to know she was making a sacrifice and all that comes with it. Not the same as a rape victim. gross comparison” I’m the one who initially made this analogy and it’s not what I meant AT ALL. I don’t mean the emotional pain is similar, some online bullying vs. sexual assault aren’t even on the same wavelength. I mean THEIR comments are similar. They blame her the same way people tell women they deserved unwanted attention because of what they were doing/wearing. Way to twist my words.

Like I can’t tell if they genuinely believe all of that or if they’re just that oblivious and/or dense. I was comparing them to victim blamers. That’s what they do.

**********************************

Your point was clear-Nonnie was either obtuse or purposefully trolling to stir things up. I will add that most of their followers are teens. The point might have been lost on them. 

Let’s start by with your original ask and my response:  

Anonymous Asked: “M put herself in the spotlight “dating” D. If she didn’t want that attention, she would have stayed in the background” this has the same energy as “you chose to wear that, you deserved to be catcalled”. Mia STAYS in the background for the most part. Posing on a red carpet gives us no insight into who she is. They literally seek her out on her friends socials. And they met well before his career took off so no, she probably didn’t expect it to turn into this

Me: Their attitude- that Mia deserves to be attacked and criticized because she fell in love with a man who then became famous and whom they have a crush on makes my skin crawl. It is like the “wear a short skirt and you deserve being raped”. It’s also how they justify their abysmal behavior. They went on to argue that Mia deserves criticism but Abby isn’t dating a famous man so she didn’t deserve the “awful attack”.  They like to bring up the Fame is Other People (X) interview Mia gave in 2016 where she says she never imagined herself with someone famous. They still ridicule her for not leaving Darren the minute he started getting famous.  It’s so fucked up.  

Now their conversation today

Anonymous asked: They're comparing people saying M chose to forgo privacy when she "fell in love" with D to people getting accused of deserving rape for wearing short skirts. Uhhh...NOT THE SAME THING but ok. I personally don't condone hating on anyone (I never publicly disparage M for example, despite my private thoughts) but by tying her life to a public figure, whether for love or not, she had to know she was making a sacrifice and all that comes with it. Not the same as a rape victim. Gross comparison.

cassie1022 answered: Nonnie, I’m not even surprised they went there. They’re vile, just like their kween. I don’t hide my feelings about M and I’m not going to, she absolutely knew what she was getting when she signed on to be D’s beard. She WANTS the attention, and as she’s a narcissist, she doesn’t care if it’s positive or negative attention.

Personally, I’ve decided I don’t care enough to look at their blogs anymore and when I get their mean as hell Anons, I’m blocking. They claim we’re obsessed with their blogs when they literally dissect every post we make. Someone’s obsessed. It’s not us.

notes-from-nowhere answered: Hold on. Why are we talking about M as if the notoriety had fallen on her head all of a sudden? It’s not because of D if she is known by others besides her parents. It’s because she pushes herself in front of him every chance she gets. She take away from him every merit often by making things looks like they come from her brain (Hedwig first for example) and she jumps on the red carpets even before he does. She shares her whole life through social media. D’s accounts, her friends’s accounts, enablers’s accounts. Her fake accounts. She tags in her posts every celebrity that crosses her path. Her only job in life seems to be open (and never close) social media accounts.

What are these people even talking about? Now we reached the point of denying even what she does so she can fits better their theories?

This is hilarious. I swear.

leka-1998 answered: Poor girl, forced to do all this.

I don’t even want to waste time thinking about how ridiculous it is that this behavior isn’t surprising.

flowersintheattic254 answered: I’m appalled at the comparison. God her fans are hypocrites. She wants notoriety via any means fair or foul and then screams victim if it’s questioned.

It’s the same argument that she is above criticism because she’s woman and therefore isn’t accountable for her actions.

Let’s remember V day. Nobody told her to get high with B in the PR house and post those pics. You reap what you sow. People smell fakeness and she reaks of it.

***************************

One thing I learned very quickly when answering anons is that due diligence pays off. Responding to an anon’s summary of what someone else said can backfire if they misrepresent what was said. If the anon reports something untoward was said- whether by design or by mistake- and I spent 2 paragraphs berating that statement that was never said then I am the fool. Taking 5 minutes to read the post myself has paid off many times and every time I have taken something I know nothing about at face value- it’s bitten me in the ass. Had any of the ccers bothered to actually read the post they would have realized that Nonnie misrepresented the point. They still would have written something angry and pretended to be so “shocked” by how “vile” we are but at least they would have had a shot at not being the fool.  

--------------------- My comments in Italics; they are in regular font 

Cassie:  

Nonnie, I’m not even surprised they went there. They’re vile, just like their kween. Nobody has ever said anything on my blog that could be construed as Mia is our kween. I don’t really understand the value of bringing up things nobody said as part of one’s argument. It’s proof of how desperate they are to be right and how easily they bend the truth to fit their needs. They wouldn’t know how to be authentic and honest if their lives depended on it.  

I don’t hide my feelings about M and I’m not going to, she absolutely knew what she was getting when she signed on to be D’s beard. She WANTS the attention, and as she’s a narcissist, she doesn’t care if it’s positive or negative attention. It’s hilarious that Nonnie claimed she doesn’t disparage Mia publically as part of their argument as to why they are better than us but Cassie being the charmer that she is, responds with “I don’t hide my feelings about M and I’m not going to”.  I could argue that Cassie knew what she signed on for when she started her crisscolfer blog-she even shares her cc beliefs on her Twitter!  

She WANTS the attention, and as she’s a narcissist, she doesn’t care if it’s positive or negative attention I find it so odd that Cassie is diagnosing Mia with mental illness yet just yesterday she was raging that Metaloma and I diagnose Abby. Hypocrite much? It is mind-boggling that she believes Mia is a narcissist but can’t see that Abby actually is. I bet the Abby-less Crisscolfer fandom will find Mia isn’t nearly as narcissistic and evil without Abby to write the storyline and talk about her nonstop. 

Personally, I’ve decided I don’t care enough to look at their blogs anymore and when I get their mean as hell Anons, I’m blocking. They claim we’re obsessed with their blogs when they literally dissect every post we make. Someone’s obsessed. It’s not us. Not reading my blog was a critical mistake because she would have realized that Nonnie was misconstruing the comment. Did someone claim they are obsessed with our blogs- I certainly didn’t- or is this another one of those claims that never happened?   

---------------------

Notes:

Hold on. Why are we talking about M as if the notoriety had fallen on her head all of a sudden? Nobody is talking as if notoriety had fallen on her head all of the sudden. Notes would have really benefited from reading the original post because neither Notes or I have a clue what post she is responding to.  

It’s not because of D if she is known by others besides her parents. It’s because she pushes herself in front of him every chance she gets. She take away from him every merit often by making things looks like they come from her brain (Hedwig first for example) and she jumps on the red carpets even before he does. I love the trope that she jumps in front of him on every red carpet because it proves how willing they are to outright lie to get their message across. She literally stands with Darren in front of the photographers for a couple of seconds at the end of Darren’s allowed period. Darren poses for dozens of photos and we see 2 or 3 pics of Mia and Darren-that is hardly jumping on the carpet before he does. As for taking away every merit- omg give it up. This is one of the dumbest tropes the fandom hangs on to. Mia WAS Hedwig before Darren was -the Halloween picture is around somewhere. Mia didn’t make the statement her friend did. We know the ccers don’t understand friendships but when they get pissed about the Hedwig comment they should refer to this post (X) where they declared “Just like I 100% stand with @ajw720,” and “I support @ajw720, I don’t believe Mi@rren is real and you cannot silence us!!!!”. Friends say things about other friends to connect with that person and show support. They weren’t trying to diss Darren. They never intended rabid Darren fans to even SEE the post-it was intended for their friends and nobody else.   

She shares her whole life through social media. THIS IS my FAVORITE comment of all. WTF? Where does Mia share her whole life through social media? Cuz I’d love to see it! The fact is, you are lying...you’re just outright lying. Mia shares nothing via social media. She stopped her Twitter when she quit playing music and she has a private IG account.  

D’s accounts, her friends’s accounts, enablers’s accounts. Her fake accounts. She tags in her posts every celebrity that crosses her path. Her only job in life seems to be open (and never close) social media accounts. Darren’s accounts? If Mia had control of Darren’s accounts, Mia would be plastered all over it but in reality, neither Darren nor Mia is active on public social media and they certainly aren’t sharing their lives. Nobody uses their friends’ accounts to plaster themselves. God, this trope is so stupid. Enabler’s accounts? Who the hell are her enablers? Where are these enabler posts just full of Mia’s every move? Her “fake accounts” is the best one though. Here we have some random person trolling the cc fandom and they Eat. It. Up. FetusMiarren hasn’t posted since August 11. Who the hell closes social media accounts? The reality is that Abby spent all day every day talking about MIa. The only person promoting Mia full time was Abby. The reason Notes believes that all these accounts are Mia sharing her whole life is because Abby stalked those accounts and then talked about each post for days. 

What are these people even talking about? Now we reached the point of denying even what she does so she can fits better their theories? I ask you the same question “What the hell are you talking about?” If you had actually taken the time to read the original post instead of working yourself up to a red-faced, foot-stomping rant, you would know what I was talking about and avoided this ridiculous, off-topic rant-fest. 

This is hilarious. I swear. Back at ya! 

--------------------- 

Flowers: 

I really love Flower’s response:  I’m appalled at the comparison. God her fans are hypocrites-I’m not sure how we are hypocrites because of a valid comparison.  

She wants notoriety via any means fair or foul and then screams victim if it’s questioned. Mia didn’t make the comparison- I did. Mia doesn’t know me, she didn’t dictate I made the comparison by “any means foul or fair”  

It’s the same argument that she is above criticism because she’s woman and therefore isn’t accountable for her actions. Wait...who in the hell made the argument that she isn’t responsible for her actions because she’s a woman? I’ve seen a lot of fake arguments like this in the last 3 days. Again, I don’t really understand the value of bringing up things nobody ever said as part of one’s argument. It certainly doesn’t lend credibility. 

Let’s remember V day. Nobody told her to get high with B in the PR house and post those pics. You reap what you sow. People smell fakeness and she reaks of it. Aaaaannnndddd she wraps up her comment with one of the fandom’s favorite gaslight moments- Valentine’s day with Ben.  

[incarnateirony]

To the Nonnie that left a 5 parter in my inbox:

I am not going to post your nonsense.

I am not going to circulate your redefinitions, your new goalposts, your explicit deletion and argumentation against a far larger bulk of openly identified bisexual people, and your raging. I have already addressed these, and they boil down to “You’re literally destructive to the LGBT battle while you think you’re being progressive.”

I am not going to be part in circulation people’s own manufactured dialogues they put between their own ears anymore.

You are not promised platform. You are not promised my inbox. You are not promised any specific performance from LGBT creators within the demographic they are writing the text that would be representative in if you have paid *zilch* attention to their working conditions.

In fact, you literally don’t even get to fucking pretend you’re here about representation while *overtly denying the words, sociopolitical representation commentary, and working conditions of the LGBT creators you’re hot dogging right now*. Half the fucking fight is also behind the scenes GETTING LGBT CREATORS CREATING, even if at times they’re limited. 

Representation isn’t just on screen, diversity in writing crews behind scene is the fight, and if you pretend it isn’t just to gang bang LGBT creators for not performing how you want, without *ANY* fucking human consideration for why things are the way they are? *You, deep down, don’t give a shit about representation, or production team diversity, or LGBT creators -- you give a shit about getting exactly what you want exactly the way you want without even recognizing that may not be universal to LGBT people as proven by my notifs right now -- and largely with the reductionist point of wanting to win against trolls on the internet at which point YOU HAVE LEFT THE REPRESENTATION WHEELHOUSE (x); or if you do truly believe what some rando -- probably a woman, rather than the LGBT male POV -- said, you need to DRAMATICALLY RE-ALIGN AND CONSIDER YOUR POV*

“The whole idea of representation” that you have is close, but still a made up thing. It’s what perfect representation is. It’s not what the battle is. It’s never been what the battle is.

So just because you’ve dreamed up, say, a GA opposed to you, while the GA openly fucking talks about all this shit (right down to “marriage/dark point in the romance/divorce/breakup), on non-fansite major news publications, rather than fangirls that are scared of losing their website traffic in this fucking bog of bitterness, liars, extortionists and tinhats?

It doesn’t fucking matter.

Text is text is text. Queer text is queer text no matter how upset you get on if it was *visible* enough for you. That will continue to stay true. It will continue to be true when you make GA monsters in your head that don’t exist anywhere in reality. It will continue to stay true when you want to argue with a clout monkey that doesn’t even believe what they say. It’s going to be true. 

It’s fine to want more visible text. That IS the nature of the fight. The nature of the fight is NOT deleting low visibility text. And i’m going to ask you to PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS FUCKING HOLY, ACTUALLY EDUCATE YOURSELF ON LGBT MEDIA HISTORY AND THE REPRESENTATION BATTLE.

Not just a random link convenient to someone’s article that vague blogs the general history. Actually educate yourself if you’re going to get in this fight because HOLY SHIT the children that have tried have *MISERABLY FUCKED UP* and then quite unfortunately normalized that fucking up, that everybody thought it was the new brand of woke because of herd mind.

If you’ve internalized enough phobia from the abusive manipulations within this fandom that you’ve convinced yourself bisexual people are *SO DAMN INVISIBLE* that nobody gets what’s going on while the GA is all “SHIT MAN THEY GOT A DIVORCE T_T”, that’s a you thing.

I am not your therapist. I am not your mother. I can not *force* you to get in touch with what the GA, or the creatives, or anyone else has said on anything related to this content, because I’ve been blogging it all and here you are, clearly not reading any of it. I can not force you to stop erasing LGBT text you, personally, nonniemcnonface, don’t like the visibility of. BUT I CAN STRONGLY ENCOURAGE IT.

But nobody owes you anything. Not my inbox. Not the platform on my blog. Not *your, specific, preferred, very precise point of view*. When you are a middle aged LGBT cis man raised in the 80s in patriarchal environments, and/or hold a great deal of conversation explicitly with the demographic and its representation in question, and by that I mean not 1, 2, 3, or even just 10 LGBT men within a step of that demographic. Because that’s the story of the character being told. It’s not *your* story. It’s a story you may resonate with depending how close to it you are. But *that* is what representation is: creating a universal platform of diverse, queer stories until it is saturated into the media to such an extent you *will* eventually find someone that ticks all your demographic boxes when you turn on your TV (be that race, gender, sexuality, religion, disability, or whatever else.) Demanding everyone’s unilateral demands be met when they aren’t even in the intersectional demographic isn’t representation. It’s tokenization. It’s the exact same way we end up with stereotyped gays to try to fit everyone’s “visibility” wants. It’s why there IS such a problem with LGBT male and, most explicitly, bisexual male representation. You are making half of the problem unto yourselves.

Until then, you don’t get to talk over those people. No matter how many anons you send thinking it sounds *gr8* because you haven’t read the entire discussion, you just got *mad* at part of it and didn’t want to introspect. That? That’s a problem.

Let’s say you work at Subway and they say you can only put 6 olives on a footlong without charging extra. Your boss vaguely holds that up but doesn’t micro count your olives so sometimes you give them 7 or 8 because you feel bad, and you want to give as much as you can to the customers. But if corporate notices somehow you’re burning through a shit ton of olives, it doesn’t matter what your intent is. It doesn’t matter if your manager agrees. If corporate comes down and tells you to stop putting down extra olives, you have a choice to completely quit/be fired from making sandwiches for people or to comply. Or, at least, to wait long enough to squeak new extra olives in.

*WelComE tO thE coRporAte chAIN and AduLT reALitY* -- Bobo sitting here piling as many olives on as he can until magically suddenly stopping for a year at a time and then y’all are bitching because he didn’t put the whole assed olive tree on your sandwich. When you get up to the counter, and start throwing a goddamn shitfit, you are now Karen. Don’t be Karen.

And no, Karen demanding that if she can't have as many olives as she wants then nobody should get any olives and to stop putting down olives is not anywhere in touch with functional reality.

And UNTIL you learn to pay attention to what the LGBT cis male raised in the 80s middle aged author on crew says on *this specific topic*, who was writing on sociopolitical LGBT representation issues probably since you were in *diapers*, and the methodology and struggles therein? You don’t really get a say. Once you’re able to sociopolitically contend with what that very author postured about representation *16 years ago* and have an equally well addressed set of points, then you can at least hold debate with his ideas. Until then, this is “WHAT I WANT BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH”

Go away.

Like god fucking damn Bobo “I stand in front of ICE walls”, “fuck every candidate but Bernie sanders” Berens, highly progressive left wing sociopolitical queer author still fucking understood incrementalization 16 years ago can you all fucking CATCH UP?

He didn’t fucking like it, but he understood it. He addressed it as a necessary evil that has been formative in our process and progress and expansion in visibility. You don’t have to like it either, but just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean you can’t *understand* why it works like that. Just like “text that isn’t visible enough for you is still text”, “real world issues and methods you don’t like are still real even if you don’t like them.” Bobo got it. Your turn. Cuz he doesn’t have to like his working conditions. But he can work through them the best he can. And addressed this many moons before ever writing his first SPN episode that was the first recorded time a showrunner told them to lean into it being played like lovers. Yeah. That? That was Bobo’s episode. In fact, 99% of the shit y’all uwu about is Bobo’s. Steve. Collette. The mixtape. The breakup. Gosh golly gee it’s almost like he’s fighting his ass off to tell you a story in what incremental methods he’s allowed and you’re all just trying to fuck him for it. Hell even this episode in question, Jeremy’s, Jeremy went out of his way to thank Bobo for all his guidance and help.

We’ve made progress via incrementalization, and just because you can name a few other shows that have entirely different bankrolling, marketing, distributions, demographics, that HAvE gAy shIT doesn’t mean shit. You don’t think every product a store sells comes from the same production line in the same premises with the same materials and the same target audience when they sell a wide brand of merchandise, do you? I promise you Great Value macaroni is managed and distributed differently than LED light bulbs and bicycles. These are not the same products.

The presumptuous, self-serving, personalized and franky manufactured wants and demands cloaked in a representation suit while choosing to do active harm to what progress we have -- intentionally ignorant to the actual representation battle and imagining what it is, and is like, and is about -- literally talking over the long-standing voicebox of an LGBT creator making the content who has been ENGAGED. IN THIS FIGHT. SINCE MOST OF YALL. WERE IN KINDERGARTEN? It’s fucking gross. It’s manipulative. It’s abusive. Maybe you’ve been manipulated into not understanding that, and you really believe what you say, I really don’t fucking know. But I do know you need a HUGE crash course in HOW THIS ALL WORKS and WHAT THE TARGET POINTS AND METHODOLOGICAL TARGETS ARE.

There is no magic clap on clap off bullshit. That isn’t how. It works. If it worked like that, we wouldn’t HAVE a fucking fight. (Imagine thinking that critically. Please, I beg you.)

[lizacstuff]

Thank you for being so positive about everything. I try to be, but then I start seeing people's post about CS not getting a full song duet and I worry that their own wedding won't be about them and I get upset at how unfair it is and I wish I could be happy like you.

I ignored a lot of angry asks in this vein yesterdaybecause I thought they were either antis doing the concern troll thing or just ridiculous,spoiled BUTTHURT brats who don’t deserve my time.  However, I believe you want to be happy.

Honestly, I think there is a sliding scale of expectationfor some people and they will never be happy. You can’t let other people, whomay have their own issues unrelated to fandom, dictate your happiness. If youhave people on your dash who are never satisfied and who are finding somethingto get angry or “salty” about every single day, get them off your dash. They havethe right to vent in their own space, but you are under no obligation tolisten. I’ve unfollowed so many people since the fallout over 6x10 (I hatedthat ep too, but I didn’t let it turn me bitter) and my fandom experience is amuch happier place for it.

Now let’s talk about that sliding scale of expectation.

I remember a time when a large swath of CS fandom said, “Idon’t care if we see it, I just need to know that by the end of the show CSgets married.”

I was among their ranks. I thought CS would get engaged at theend of S6 and would eventually get married, but honestly, I’ve long thought themost likely scenario is that we’d see a future montage in the series finale andget a glimpse of 20 seconds of wedding.

My guess is a lot of other people thought the same thing.

Then the spoilers for 6x12 came out and we found out we weregetting an engagement. CSers got excited! It was beyond anything we could havedreamed. Hook asking Charming for his blessing? Shipper paradise!

Expectations went up a notch.

Then CS fandom went on “ENGAGEMENT RING WATCH 2k17” (how funwas that by the way?)  and then… the daycame. The day the ring was finally spotted on JMo’s finger during filming for6x19 was a celebration.  They wereengaged. It HAD HAPPENED.

This meant that a proposal had happened! Expectations rose.

Then came Eduardo. By dropping one item (wedding dress) ina laundry list of upcoming costumes he had given us proof. There was going tobe a wedding.  And we knew. It had to beCaptain Swan.

At that point, we knew we’d see something, but what wouldthat something be? Maybe a snip-it during the finale? Maybe an intimateceremony on the Jolly. Maybe a civil ceremony in the mayor’s office. Witheverything going on in the show, few dared hope for a wedding fit for aPrincess.

Even with the uncertainty… expectation, they grew higher. Afandom who once had hoped for just the knowledge CS would be married, wantedMORE.

Then came the spoiler that it would take place during themusical episode. Some rejoiced (me) some raged. Those who raged thought thewedding would get NO FOCUS, maybe a minute or less of screen time. Othersthought it would be cheesy.

Expectations took a bit of a hit.

THEN, THEN CAME THE PROMOTION. Reporters on set.  Publicity crew on set. Special key art featuringwedding rings. Special graphics. Exclusive photos. Exclusive interviews. Lotsof media coverage.

Fears were unfounded, it was clear the wedding was thefocus of the episode. EXPECTATIONS ROSE.

Then the photo of the dress! For some, like me, it wasthrilling. It made it clear that the wedding was a big deal. A romantic dressfit for a Princess. A pretty location, a setting filled with friends andfamily.

Even through some bitched about the dress, expectationsonce again grew.

There was much speculation. Tidbits were released about whowould sing and who would not. But nothing about Captain Swan.  And many CSer proclaimed that they justwanted a DUET. WOULD CS SING TOGETHER?

Then news came. THEY WOULD. But at the same time, we learned that the musical number would turn intoa group celebration.

And that upset some. Seriously we’re at a point where somepeople are preemptively angry over the assumed length of the duet.  I had an inbox full of anons yesterday claiming this proved that CS would not be the focus of their own wedding.

Let that sink in.

We went from OH PLEASE I JUST NEED TO KNOW THEY ARE MARRIEDWHEN THE SHOW ENDS to FUCK THIS SHOW IF THEY DON’T HAVE A FULL DUET!

If you are at a point where you, as a shipper, are beingdelivered a Fairy Tale wedding in a very special musical episode, with amountain of promotion and are unhappy over the alleged length of the duet… Ijust… don’t know what to say.  You have theright to be upset, but you are making that choice, you are choosing to beupset, choosing to be dissatisfied, because we are the luckiest shippers aliveand you will NEVER experience another fictional ship like this again.

Never. I promise you. This is a once in a fan’s life thing.

Please, nonnie, find a way to adjust your expectations andenjoy it.

[geeky-galpal]

I'm taking you up on your offer. You say that it's more difficult for Lana to succeed because she's a Latina. Ok, I agree. But here's the thing. Other (white) actresses in similar position as Lana (one successful not so good show, in their 40s...) went on to guest star, they weren't cast in lead roles. But Lana, who we agree has an even harder time, will somehow defy all odds and get a lead role again and again and again?

Hey nonnie!

Get prepared.. this turned out longer than I intended…

I agree that, looking at past examples, there are other similarly placed actresses who have not all gone on to have lead roles once their show ended for the rest of their lives. There are also actresses who went on to succeed at similar or higher heights. Some have, some haven’t– I think we can all agree that life can be a crapshoot.

I have never said Lana “will somehow defy all odds and get a lead role again and again and again”. I would appreciate it if you don’t put words in my mouth.

I can’t speak for anyone else on Tumblr as I am not on here all the time, but I have not personally seen a reasonable fan of Lana’s who has advocated for the point you are raising here. If they did, that would seem as foolish to me as the anti-fans currently trolling inboxes last night and this morning. Why? Because none of us can predict the future. Especially not in an industry as volatile as television.

Oh, and before I move on, quickly– if we are going to talk about Lana’s future career prospects, then we must acknowledge that we are all talking major long-term hypotheticals. OUAT has not been cancelled this year or next year that any of us know for fact. I will grant you that rumors/ evidence are swirling this year just as they have every past year. But, really this is all reading “tea leaves” because none of us are ABC employees who are working on current contracts. And, there has been even less outside “evidence” that Lana is independently leaving the show than the already thin evidence of the show’s cancellation.

OK, so those points out of the way…

Why do I have hopeful confidence in Lana moving forward?

1. Leading in to OUAT, Lana had a string of successful pilot pick ups. None of those turned into hit shows, but that’s the luck of the draw in Hollywood. The fact that she was hired again and again speaks to her ability to connect with show runners and casting agents. That’s key moving forward as the potential parts would become admittedly more staggered.

2. Speaking in very broad generalities, the parts that Lana is about to “age into” (especially by the time OUAT wraps in the next few years), will be what those who follow the industry call “District Attorney” aged or maternal roles. The middle-aged tough, often cold business woman (think- every detective and lawyer on Law & Order, etc, but also “Head of Surgery” type roles on hospital dramas such as Grey’s or ER) or the middle-aged mom in a teen/family soap (see- Parenthood, the Fosters, etc). The good news here? Lana’s current part in OUAT sets her up really well for both of those future career prospects. She has a body of work and experience she can point to that will play into those strengths moving forward.

3. Related to the above point, Lana has previously discussed her difficulties of being cast due to her “ambiguous” racial appearance as a white Latina. When she had long, naturally curly hair, for instance, she wouldn’t get cast in white roles. But, casting agents also didn’t feel she looked “Latina enough” for Latinx roles. What did she do? Cut off her hair, evened out her accent. She played into her own mixed race heritage, which allowed her a wider variety of options. I expect her to maneuver similarly when she’s back on the market. 

4. Evil Regals. I spoke about this a bit earlier in response to one of F3′s asks, but Lana has spent significant parts of her hiatus and social media life cultivating her fanbase. This will seem crude, but having that little social army matters. Lana Parrilla is not a household name, but she is significant in certain niche and cult markets. Building up her base solidifies her brand. Being a “brand” is as important, if not more important, than being extremely well known– especially for WOC actresses who already won’t have the same mass-market appeal. I’ve previously recommended to friends that when looking for role models for Lana’s career, don’t just look at similarly placed white women, but look at Kerry Washington and Eva Longoria. Both of whom have invested deeply in diversification of their brand early on .

Consider: Kerry’s early film career when she made majority black films and was not yet a “crossover success”, Eva Longoria’s Latinx and Chicanx activism. It was Kerry Washington who independently suggested that the cast of Scandal “live tweet” their episodes before that was even a thing yet, because she knew she had already built up a fan base of millennial black women from her movies who she could depend on for engagement. Those live tweeting sessions not only gave Scandal the bump they needed for a second season renewal, it changed the way we watch television across a variety of shows. Eva Longoria went back and got a Master’s degree in Chicano Studies while working on the set of Desperate Housewives– there are photos of her writing her thesis on set– and turned that degree, plus her earnings, into a 501©(3) advocacy organization and a production house. The advocacy organization made Longoria a respected household name for many Latinx people. That earned respect feeds trust in her production house. Which in turn has kept her in the media, and spurred 2-3 other shows.

I think that Lana has been modeling her career as a hybrid between those actresses (she’s a known friend of Longoria) and the work of say, Kate Mulgrew/ Lucy Lawless/ Jaime Murray – all three of whom are incredibly popular genre actresses who went on to have long, successful careers that carried them through their middle age. She focuses on diversifying, advocacy, and building a fan base. 

There are worse role models to have in that regard.

5. You will notice that I did *not* *mention* *talent* on this list. And there is a reason- we all know Lana is talented, but talent will only get you so far. That is also true about “quality of show” that you are currently employed on. Both of these are subjective, and honestly, matter little to networks. A casting director may want to know- can this person act? The answer will be “yes”. The network executives will want to know- can this person turn us a profit? Lana has done everything she can to prove that she can do that as well. (There’s a reason we have been seeing so much EQ in the general on-air advertisements of the show— both leading into 6A and now again during 6B. The promo people at ABC believe she is a draw, while we as fans are not privy to the “hard data”that they have, we can look at the choices that they are making objectively.)

OK Nonnie! 5 reasons and book length essay on why I have confidence for Lana Parrilla moving forward. Thanks for listening!

[orionsangel86]

1) Hey Saz, this is the person from Tink's long-ass 5-parter ask. This is going to be even longer. I'm on anon because of shyness above all things but I am willing to message you off anon if you want me to do so! I saw what you wrote about that ask and I agree.... to the most point. All the 'characteristics' of Destiel that differenciate it from other ships that you listed were actually applicable to some the ships I was talking about, especially Johnlock. -->

--> 2)The other ships, yes, you may be right, but for Johnlock I felt even more wronged intellectually when it crashed to the ground than I think I'll feel if the same thing happens to Destiel. I'm going to sound like a Johnlock shipping troll, but I'm not, I ran away from the mess of a fandom it became post-season 4. So bear with me. I really can't explain what my experience was at the time if you aren't familiar with tjlc and what the pre-season 4 sherlock fandom was like. -->

-->3)But let me assure you that it was extremely alike the spn/destiel fandom right now. I want to point out the similarities of the fandom and the ship but that would basically mean me explaining why Johnlock should have been canon, and I don't think you are here for that. So let me just point out a few things. By the end of the honest-to-god fanfic-y 3rd season, the GA were taking notice of it as well, to the point where, yes, the show is being called the worst queerbait ever even to this day.

--> 4)It frankly deserves it. And it was 2017.... we thought it was due fucking time. Guess it wasn't. When looking ay bibro blogs I can't help but be reminded of Johnlock antis. At least when that was a thing, you know, because you can't be an anti of something when it turns out you were right. We made fun of them, because how the fuck can you see jealousy at weddings, literally killing for the other the day they meet, -->

--> 5) having something secret to say that they can't bring themselves to say even after the other's death, being broken over the other's death TWO YEARS LATER AND ON THE DAY YOU FUCKING PROPOSE TO YOUR GF, prefering the other over your string of girlfriends, counting the texts a woman sent the other, COMING BACK TO LIFE AFTER LITERALLY FLATLINING BECAUSE THE OTHER IS IN DANGER, and, you know, constantly making both of them have shitty relationships and be unsatisfied romantically.... -->

.... and read it all as platonic? The show literally falls apart if you take away Johnlock... sounds familiar. You know, one of the writers for Sherlock is gay. So I believed in him, after all gay writers won't queerbait, how could they? (turns out they could.)......But I digress. I won't blame you if you just glossed over what I ranted above. Actually some of the reasons I'm still holding out hope for Destiel is 1) How atrocious the last season of Sherlock was, worst than Supernatral at its worst. 2) The sense that everything is coming full circle in this season(which we didn't get, btw, in even the last season of Sherlock). 3) Misha fucking Collins. And you know, although i heatedly ranted above in response to your response, I did it only because I wanted to justify what I spent near three years on. I didn't want to leave you thinking that a ship like this didn't exist before, because in my opinion, it did. So sorry. I was being spiteful.About the 'Greatest Love Stoty Ever Told', which was in fact the big fandom tagline for Johnlock as well....... I think I'll wait and see. If it is endgame, then I agree that it really is the greatest love story ever told. And I also agree that the show seems to be going that way

Hi Nonny, 

So this is all in relation to this post and I think that the easiest way to answer this is to say to anyone still doubting, including nonny, to just read the various replies and reblogs on that post, because the answers are perfect. 

Also nonny I know we have spoken in private already and you said that you were feeling better after reading the responses on that post as well so I won’t go into too much depth here, but I still wanted to post your asks in case there are still people out there feeling the way you do.

This is going to be my opinion on the matter, which, of course, is just that. There are many many people out there who were greatly upset by Sherlock and I feel for you all. Its not fair what happened and what that show put you through. Your feelings and your views on the matter are 100% valid and real and nothing that I say here is trying to contradict that. You saw a love story between those characters. That interpretation, like any interpretation of a text, is real and never let anyone say you were wrong. Johnlock still exists within the text of that show, just because it didn’t end with a kiss or a love confession doesn’t mean that it isn’t a valid reading. 

I started watching Sherlock before I ever got into Supernatural. When it came out in 2010 I LOVED it. My film student lizard brain picked up on the Johnlock subtext pretty much straight away and aside from some very brief thoughts of “ooh that would be a different spin on it” I didn’t pay much more attention. I continued to watch Sherlock second season in 2012 and again I noticed the subtext, but at this point recognised that it was all done for humorous purposes. I never thought they would go there. I didn’t “ship” it because I didn’t even know what “shipping” was at the time let alone thought John and Sherlock were more than friends who happen to get mistaken for a couple. That was the gag. It was what made my very typically straight male young brother giggle like an idiot because apparently being mistaken for gay was funny. (It’s not. I hate those jokes. They don’t work outside a Carry On film and I don’t even like Carry On films).

When season 3 came out in Jan 2014 I side eyed the series because I had had enough of the gay jokes. I thought it was getting weird and could see that there was a beautiful bond between the characters that imo was being twisted for cheap laughs. I pondered on whether this Sherlock was in fact in the closet, Were they trying to tell us that he was secretly gay? I didn’t get it because it was never clear enough to me that this was the case and yet they continued to play around with the concept whilst the character of John is off with his fiance. My brother continued to find the whole thing hilarious. It was never taken seriously. My musings on Sherlocks sexuality were pushed aside because it seemed clear to me that the writers were not taking it seriously.

Then over the summer of 2014 I binge watched 9 seasons of SPN. I struggled with seasons 1 and 2, made it through 3, watched 4 and fell in love with an Angel of the Lord. It took me 10 episodes to figure out Cas was gay. It took me a further 2 seasons of umming and ahhing in my own head to conclude that yes,  Dean was definitely Bisexual. It took until 6x20 to realise that this was legit something in the text and not my imagination. It took until season 8 for me to believe 100% that they were going there. (I wavered a bit on that belief in seasons 9 and 10 but season 11 pulled me back and I haven’t looked back since.)

In the early seasons, 4, 5 and 6, I recognised the patterns used between Dean and Cas were the same used in Sherlock. I re-watched Sherlock at some point in 2015 and remember thinking damn yeah they really were shoving the subtext in our faces a bit. But I still didn’t ship it, even though I was 100% shipping destiel at that point. I again pondered Sherlock’s sexuality, had a brief thought of “I’d like to see that take on the story” but again discarded any thought that it would actually be textual in a show that imo seemed adamant in keeping it all about the humour. If they weren’t going to take this characters sexuality seriously, then the story was never going to seriously be explored. 

See if Destiel had always remained the way it was in seasons 4, 5 and 6, then I wouldn’t have any belief that it was going canon. I would probably still ship it (the sexual tension in season 4 was insane) but the idea that it would go canon would have always been a pipe dream. So many shows use the queer subtext as a source of humour. So many shows tease their characters as queer and use homoeroticism for titillation. It delights my idiot brother to no end. I hate it. I think it desperately needs to stop. I have never ever watched an episode of Sherlock and thought that it was doing anything other than just that. (I didn’t particularly like the 4th season though because nothing made any bloody sense and I think they kind of butchered the characterisations - I did say this would all be my opinion though so please don’t take offence).

You say that the show falls apart if you take away the romantic love story and make it platonic. I guess if I was to watch it again I could try to consider that reading, but my own experience watching seasons 1-3 is certainly not from a romantic view point and it all made sense to me. Season 4 didn’t make sense at all, and by the time that was on I was deep in destiel fandom and frequently writing meta, so I DID see the romantic reading in the text and yet still didn’t understand the story. (Again, I stress this is my opinion and is in no way trying to invalidate your own). However, with Destiel, the last three and a bit seasons narratively don’t work without it. I have tried to watch them and ignore every romantic moment, or hint at a romantic love between them, and in doing so, it confuses the fucking plot. I need to sit down and catalogue all the ways seasons 10 to 13 don’t work without destiel to evidence this but it would be a pretty epic job because there are ALOT. 

I understand that you feel that Johnlock and Destiel are similar ships, but my opinion is that they drastically diverted course from each other when SPN went into its eighth season. Since then, there has been nothing quite like destiel in terms of build up and story structure - unless you start comparing it to the straight ships.

Where we are right now, destiel is deeply ingrained into the narrative of the show, and it is never used as a gag. It is never poked fun of in a way that reduces Dean and Cas’s relationship. Something that I believe Sherlock did right up until its last episode. I also 100% believe that the SPN creators and cast have a much greater respect and love for their fans than the Sherlock writers and cast ever did. (I’m not much of a fan of Bendydick Cucumberpatch and I have never been comfortable with Steve Moffat... dunno why the guy just gives me the creeps (then again so does Bob Singer)). They have been so positive towards Destiel recently that I am constantly stunned whenever new media or PR comes out. I am also of the belief that someone as wonderful as Misha Collins who is a champion for the LGBT community and cares deeply about making the world a better place would never ever involve himself in something that if it didn’t happen, would be considered the biggest queerbait in TV history. Breaking the hearts and severely angering millions of fans all over the world. Misha is a very smart man. He knows exactly how much this means to us and what it will do to us if it doesn’t happen. He doesn’t exactly look worried though. He doesn’t ever look like he is guilty over encouraging this ship? He looks like a fucker who knows whats up and can’t wait til we finally get to be in on the joke so he can tweet about it 24/7.

If destiel doesn’t happen, then Misha, of all people.... well... I’d have to rethink my entire opinion of him... the idea is so unfathomable for me, so impossible, it hurts my head to even consider. Did you ever feel this way about BC or Martin Freeman? 

I just can’t believe that the people behind SPN would do that to us, but the people behind Sherlock? Well it didn’t exactly surprise me when it didn’t go canon. The BBC isn’t exactly known for being progressive. It’s known for playing it safe. If Sherlock was on Channel 4 I reckon they would have gone there. The Channel 4 execs probably would have encouraged it from the start. They would have considered it ‘edgy’. 

I know that the CW isn’t exactly the most progressive network either, but its a young network, with a younger demo compared to the grumpy old pensioners who sit and watch BBC every night and complain that their tax payer money shouldn’t be going towards anything other than gardening shows and Eastenders. Soooo I think that has something to do with it too. The CW has a greater chance of pulling something like this off. 

I’m so so sorry that Sherlock burned you. But don’t give up hope on destiel just yet, the factors are all currently in our favour. No two ships are alike, and in my opinion, Destiel is the motherfucking Symphony of the Seas compared to all others. It’s bigger, better, and hopefully, due for launch in Spring 2018.