#charlotte's loki meta | Explore Tumblr Posts and Blogs

beaniebaneenie · 1 year

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I posted 24,709 times in 2022

That's 1,738 more posts than 2021!

9 posts created (0%)

24,700 posts reblogged (100%)

Blogs I reblogged the most:

@itsmemaddi

@hawkheartedlion

@roruna

@euphoniousraconteur

@theawkwardconfusedturtle96

I tagged 1,020 of my posts in 2022

#loki - 209 posts

#stuff to talk about in therapy - 127 posts

#in defense of loki - 46 posts

#loki meta - 45 posts

#danny phantom - 38 posts

#thank you mr terry - 29 posts

#reference - 26 posts

#sigyn - 24 posts

#music - 20 posts

#vax my beloved - 17 posts

Longest Tag: 138 characters

#and even before they made jug 'officially ace' i recognized him as brethren™️ before i knew what asexuality even was or that it had a name

My Top Posts in 2022:

Knuckles: So... who broke the coffee maker? I'm not mad. I just want to know.

Tails: I did. I broke-

Knuckles: No, no you did not. Wade?

Wade: Don't look at me. Look at Tom.

Tom: What? I didn't break it.

Wade: Huh. That's weird. How'd you even know it was broken?

Tom: Because it's sitting right in front of us and it's broken.

Wade: [leans in on him] ...Suspicious.

Sonic: If it matters - probably not - but Maddie was the last one to use it.

Maddie: Liar! I don't even drink that crap!

Sonic: Oh, really? Then what were you doing by the coffee cart earlier?

Maddie: I use the wooden stirrers to push back my cuticles- everyone knows that, Sonic!

Tails: Ok, ok! Let’s not fight! I broke it, let me pay for it, Knuckles!

Knuckles: No! Who broke it??!

Wade: [looks at Crazy Carl, then at Knuckles] Knuckles... Carl’s been awfully quiet.

Crazy Carl: REALLY??

Wade: Yeah! Really.

Crazy Carl: Oh, my God! [everyone starts arguing at one another except Knuckles]

Knuckles: [to the camera] I broke it. It burned my hand, so I punched it. I predict ten minutes from now they will be at each other's throats with war paint on their faces and a pig head on a stick. [turns to look at the everyone as they continue to argue, then looks back] Good. It was getting a little chummy around here.

10 notes - Posted April 26, 2022

Ok this is definitely supposed to be a "look at how sexy and Not Like Other Girls this girl is! If you use our razor to Manscape™️ your balls, this girl will definitely want to fuck you!"

.....but it kinda reads as an absolutely awesomesauce ad for trans women who have not had (or do not want) bottom surgery.

Which I am super aware is not even remotely what they intended. But I've decided that's how I'm gonna see it.

See the full post

11 notes - Posted February 9, 2022

I relate to Mina Murray, bc I too hate the "two page a week diaries, with Sunday crammed in the corner".

24 notes - Posted May 9, 2022

Dracula daily is my biggest serotonin-creator right now. I have loved this book for almost 20 years and watching all of us read it together is utterly splendid.

But for even more hilarity and delightful mental images, please remember that in 1897, while vampire stories were about to come into another heyday? They weren't mainstream yet.

And the name "Count Dracula" was in no way synonymous with "vampire".

The Carpathian mountains, That Accent™️, hell... Even Transylvania itself, were not inextricably tied with "vampire lore", particularly in the minds of western Europeans.

This is the book that did that.

As much as we are all reveling in the present tense, and are experiencing the adventure in real time? We all know something Jonathan doesn't. We all know something the readers of 1897 did not.

We know that Count Dracula is a vampire.

We know that he isn't just a vampire, he's like, the biggest, baddest, most OP vamp ever.

We have the lovely dramatic irony in every word, in every time Jonathan tells us that everything is fine, this is totally normal for the Carpathians, he is sure that he's merely ignorant of local culture. We know there is a reveal coming, and we know exactly what it is.

....now imagine it's 1897 and maybe Charlotte has been sneaking her brother's copy of this book in bits and pieces because fiction novels were still sort of looked down on by true high society, especially for women to read. And she gets dressed in her fancy cranberry and white lace calling gown, and takes her carriage to Lady Ashworth's home down the street.

And poor Charlotte has to keep her cool and her decorum through half an hour of polite, stilted conversation as Lord Ashworth is in the sitting room when she arrives. But finally, he excuses himself to the study, and Charlotte can barely put her herbal tissan down in its saucer before Lady Ashworth leans forward.

"Have you read Jonathan Harker's last entry?"

"oh, my dear Vespasia- why do you think I've called on you this afternoon? Eloise isn't reading it, and I needed to speak with someone!"

28 notes - Posted May 6, 2022

My #1 post of 2022

Y'all, this is not a call out to anyone in particular, but I am so fucking tired of seeing fanart of Gilmore that makes him skinny or super trim & buff.

Gilmore is fat. He is a beautiful, incredibly handsome, flamboyant man who wears jewelry and makeup and bright colors... And he is fat.

Vax likes him that way, and more importantly, Gilmore likes himself that way.

It's amazing to see a character like him, whose size is never ever the butt of the joke, who is never underestimated or ignored because he's fat, and who is extremely aware of how attractive and desirable he is, while being fat.

When y'all are making fanart, or Stardew valley or sims versions, or 3d renders, or whatever... stop fucking making Gilmore skinny. It's fatphobic, and all it does is tell us fat folks who see it that you don't think someone can be as awesome as Shaun Gilmore is while being fat.

Please don't take him away from us.

51 notes - Posted May 12, 2022

Get your Tumblr 2022 Year in Review →

#tumblr2022 #year in review #my 2022 tumblr year in review #your tumblr year in review

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captain-azoren · 3 years

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Just finished White knight and Red Queen and I thoroughly enjoyed it. I hope after Netflix comes out more people would flock into your fanfic just for the quality of your chapters. Also I read way too many charlotte so your fanfic was a refresher to me how you keep Azula in character. Love the Fire siblings relationship a lot of Azula stans shit on Zuko and you showed me a new perspective that Zuko feeling is complicated. Thank you for helping me when I was going thorough a rough time.

Thanks, it really means a lot to hear that :)

And yes, I did want to make Zuko's feelings complicated. I wanted Soren and Claudia's friendship with him and Azula to maybe open up his eyes a bit more than they are in canon.

Really, I think that's what I wanted this fic to do for readers in general, to give a newer, fresher perspective on Azula, to analyze who she from the other side of the war, through people who have no biases or prior knowledge. That's one reason why it's set during book 3 rather than 2.

To get a little meta, I think you can read Soren as a stand in for Azula fans in general and the struggle it is to defend her when everyone seems against it. It's partly because he does love her, but also because he believes it is the right thing to do regardless of personal feelings. Saving her soul is equivalent to saving her life or anyone's.

I guess you could say that towards the end Katara could be seen as a stand in for Azula haters, but I don't mean to bash her. For the record, Katara's feelings are complicated as well, even if I didn't have a lot of time to really demonstrate that. Her and Sokka I think are realistically going to be the most antagonistic towards Azula.

When I continue, and I will, I want to explore the ideas of fate and destiny and choice. It's funny, but the new Loki series actually uses some of the same ideas I've been having for Azula. And weirdly enough, what Guilty Gear Strive did with I-No. In any case, I want a happy ending to inspire hope in readers.

#ask #answer #fanfic #white knight red queen #Azula #soren #avatar #the dragon prince #tdp #atla #avatar the last airbender #tdp soren

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askmarietheapprentice · 5 years

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Meta Monday: Goro Akechi and Circus Baby/Scrap Baby/Fourth Charlotte/ Elizabeth Afton parallels. Part 1

Let’s start with things both versions of Elizabeth Afton share both with each other and Goro Akechi. All serve their villainous father. All want to be loved and admired and have major abandonment issues .

Fourth Charlotte Elizabeth spent six months acting as Charlie so she could have her friends and boyfriend as her own. She straight up says she was abandoned by Henry how he left her unfinished but constantly on and in agony. And William was an abusive and neglectful. (Which is a nice though not pleasant parallel with Akechi . He’s always on too but in a metaphorical sense.)

In Ultimate Custom Night you deal with Baby by buying her a plushie version of herself. And she’ll sometimes say ‘I guess you forgot about me.” in her trademark sad and broken voice as her va called it. She was literally abandoned for decades in CBEaR and continuously denied her escape from that Hell.

Goro taste in food isn’t based on his own but what’s popular at the time and so he can talk to adults about something. It’s also implied he wants Joker’s gang as his own with how his persona is Robin Hood and not only does his compendium entry name drop his Merry Men but calls them thieves of Justice and that’s the focus of The Phantom Thieves.

All have a hidden rage to them.

Fourth Charlotte Elizabeth says she’s made of Henry’s rage at finding out his “faithful friend” murdered his beloved Charlotte and he used Freddy’s to murder even more children and that he sacrificed his relationship with his still living wife and son for a doll he cried and bled over for months and later stuffed into three robots. One a baby, one a child and finally a teen. (The first two become her toys Theodore a toy rabbit that has a recording of her dad saying “I love you Charlie.” and Ella a doll that her friend Jessica found creepy.)

It’s most obvious with Scrap Baby (”You won’t die. But you’ll wish you could.” ”Time for your controlled shock.” ) But it’s also apparent in Night 4 in Sister Location. In fact this was Heather Master’s favorite night to voice for the game because she got to act angry and not broken and sad.

All want the protagonist to understand what they’ve been through. In the Sister Location trailer Elizabeth's va(Zehra Jane Naqv)i says “Don’t hold it against us.” repeatedly and it ends with “You don’t know what we’ve been through.” Akechi tells Ren his tragic backstory all throughout his confidant. Most of the confrontation between Charlie and Elizabeth is explaining their and Henry’s backstories. She even shares her memories through this network Henry designed so that his Pinocchio would be as life like as possible.

All “learned how to pretend” as Baby calls it on Night 4. They’ re rarely ever not pretending. Loki’s design even points to even Akechi not knowing where and how his roles end and begin. Elizabeth was able to convince all but John, Charlie’s boyfriend that she was Charlie for six months and even he had doubts.

All die dramatic deaths. Akechi is shot by his father’s cognitive version of himself but not before he protects The Phantom Thieves and make them promise to change his father’s heart. Scrap Baby is burned along with the rest of Elizabeth, her father & brother, Charlotte and Henry. While it’s arguable that Elizabeth didn’t die twice or got exorcised. She does stab and get stabbed by Charlie and Charlie does push the doll into her robot body. It’ s left ambiguous if that’s Elizabeth, Charlie or a fusion of the two that visits Henry’s and Charlotte’s graves at the end of the book with John. Still has death imagery and is super dramatic.

#Meta Monday #Goro Akechi #Persona 5 Spoilers #FNaF Spoilers #Elizabeth Afton

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veliseraptor-fanfic-index · 6 years

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ToC for RTC

(Please comment if there are any corrections needed.)

Part 1 - I heard you killed your only friend last year

Media: None

Words: 3484

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: Gen

Tags: Hurt/Comfort, Whump, Aftermath of Violence

Part 2 - Disarm

Media: None

Words: 7905

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: Gen

Tags: Pre-Slash

Part 3 - the fog won’t lift in your town

Media: None

Words: 9042

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: Gen

Tags: Pre-Slash

NB: Follows ‘Part 1 - I heard you killed your only friend’ and ‘Part 2 - Disarm’ both.

Part 4 - it’s only a paper moon

Media: None

Words: 1933

Rating: Explicit

Category: M/M

Tags: Dream Sex, Pre-Relationship, Hand Jobs

NB: Follows ‘Part 3 - the fog won’t lift in your town.’

Part 5 - Tick Tick Time

Media: None

Words: 11963

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: Gen

Tags: Pre-Slash

NB: Follows ‘Part 4 - the fog won’t lift in your town.’

Part 6 - there is love in your body (you can’t hold it in)

Media: None

Words: 1883

Rating: Explicit

Category: M/M

Tags: Oral Sex, Anal Sex, Sex With A Proxy

NB: Follows some time after ‘Part 5 - Tick Tick Time.’

Part 7 - The sun no longer shines (on your side)

Media: None

Words: 10957

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Slash, Boys Kissing, Whump, Blood and Injury, Flirting

Part 8 - The Vivisection Mambo

Media: There’s a link to artwork, but Dreamwidth has killed it for being hotlinked.

Words: 6030

Rating: Mature

Category: Gen

Tags: Creepy, Horror, Vivisection, Obsession

Part 9 - further inside than I have ever been

Media: Title from Charlotte Gainsbourg’s The Operation. Click here for video and lyrics.

Words: 1880

Rating: Mature

Category: Gen

Tags: Torture, Vivisection, Gore, Very Nasty Fic, Hurt Loki, Whump, Creepy

NB: Occurs the first time Loki is captured by Doom. Read ‘Part 8 - The Vivisection Mambo’ for Doom’s POV.

Part 10 - with an untrained voice

Media: None

Words: 16059

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Aftermath of Violence, Aftermath of Torture, Conversations, Feelings, Protective Steve, Nightmares, Loki’s Trust Issues, Emotions Are Hard

Part 11 - Settled (With Questions)

Media: None

Words: 4387

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: 5 Times, 5+1 Things, Pre-Slash, Pre-Relationship

NB: Concurrent with ‘Part 10 - with an untrained voice’ and ‘Part 12 - reflected in someone like me.’

Part 12 - reflected in someone like me

Media: Title from Ophelia of the Spirits’ Someone Like Me. Click here for video and lyrics.

Words: 7776

Rating: Explicit

Category: M/M

Tags: Porn, Porn With A Little Plot, First Time, Oral Sex, Kissing, Hand Jobs, Voice Kink

NB: Occurs about 3 months after ‘Part 10 - with an untrained voice.’

Part 13 - the sweetest of words (the bitterest taste)

Media: None

Words: 6514

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Intimacy Issues, Arguing, Implied Sexual Content, Emotions Are Hard, Emotional Baggage

NB: Takes place in the future of the RTC ‘verse, but not strictly in the arc so no official placement as of yet.

Part 14 - it spills from your skin

Media: None

Words: 49173

Rating: Mature

Category: M/M

Tags: Naked Cuddling, Boys Kissing, Masturbation, Oral Sex, Clothed Sex, Dressed/Naked Sex, Dirty Talk, Verbal Sex, Wall Sex, Doggy Style, Light Dom/sub, Anal Fingering, Rimming, 69 (Sex Position), Emotion Porn, Public Sex, Floor Sex, Morning Sex, Outdoor Sex, Voice Kink, Shower Sex, Desk Sex, First Time Topping, Body Dysphoria, Wax Play, Genderplay, Dream Sex, Rough Sex, Painplay, Self Confidence Issues, Established Relationship, Developing Relationship, Roleplay, Food Sex, Light Bondage, Porn, Porn With Some Plot, Complicated Relationships, Anal Sex

NB: A collection of thirty short(ish) Steve/Loki fics written for the 30 Day OTP NSFW Challenge on tumblr. A list of the chapters with links can be found here.

Part 15 - so shall he crucify you

Media: Title from Khalil Gibran’s The Prophet. Click here for the full poem.

Words: 2435

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: Gen, M/M

Tags: Guilt, Aftermath

NB: Five-year anniversary of the May 2012 alien attack.

Part 16 - light a match, burn it down

Media: None

Words: 8484

Rating: Mature

Category: M/M

Tags: Kink Negotiation, Bad BDSM Etiquette, Masochism

NB: This fic was born out of me writing the thirty day porn challenge and suddenly realizing (well, not really suddenly, but kind of) that there were a lot of sex issues going on between Loki and Steve under the surface. I've...thought a lot about Loki's relationship to sex and the various ways in which it is not terribly healthy, and during the course of the porn challenge I gave myself about fifty loose ends that I needed to do something with. This fic is my attempt to tie those up, or at least gather some of them together and start dealing with the implications.

If you haven't read/aren't interested in the thirty days pieces, the main thing to know is that Loki likes a little pain with his sex, and hasn't overtly told Steve this. If you are willing, though, the especially important background pieces to this fic are (for the relationship dynamic) naked/clothed, doggy style, and on the floor. For a window on Loki's issues see the rough chapter. If you're really interested, there is also meta about some of my own porn and me meta-ing at length about my feelings on Loki's sexuality and relationship with kink.

Part 17 - woven in my soul

Media: None

Words: 10812

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Rescue, Hurt/Comfort, Protectiveness, Bonding Under Duress (Sort Of), Implied/Referenced Torture, Established Relationship, Steve Rogers Damsel in Distress

Part 18 - Tony Stark’s Kinky Fantasies Concerning Captain America and Loki

Media: None

Words: 2274

Rating: Mature

Category: M/M

Tags: Sexual Fantasy, Voyeurism, BDSM, Sadism, Masochism

Part 19 - The Tenth Floor

Media: None

Words: 2081

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Implied Sexual Content, Accidental Voyeurism, 5 Times, Embarrassed Steve

Part 20 - only when you hit the ground

Media: None

Words: 20383

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Gore, Rescue, Friendship, Hurt/Comfort, Major Character Injury, Blood and Injury, Hurt Loki, Protective Thor, Protective Steve, BAMF Natasha, Established Relationship

NB: So! Welcome to the longest installment in this verse so far. And also the last one before Captain America: The Winter Soldier comes out and CHANGES EVERYTHING well no not everything but I do have Plans. For this 'verse. In light of certain events. We shall see how that goes.

Anyway - this fic kind of fought me in places. But I think I've come out of it stronger for all that. And ultimately...I'm pretty pleased with it. Especially with the chance to get to explore Steve's relationships with the other Avengers, and how they've changed because of this verse, and what different perspectives on the situation are. And also beating Loki up horribly, that's an important thing too.

I borrowed T'Challa, or Black Panther, from comics. He is the ruler of Wakanda (a fictional country), and also awesome. I would love for him to get a movie, preferably without the borderline racist weirdness of his comics origins.

Part 21 - when I’m falling I’m at peace

Media: None

Words: 9855

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Flashbacks, Psychological Trauma, Healing, Aftermath of Torture, Injury, Injury Recovery, PTSD, Protective Steve, Feelings, Hurt/Comfort

NB: I'm not very good at fixing things that I break. Or at least, not most of the time. That said, this fic was both fun and terrible to write, and ended up giving me a lot of Steve feelings, actually. I suppose given that I was writing from Loki's POV perhaps that isn't surprising.

This is the first of two connecting installments that I'm writing before I start working on the next major installment of Remember This Cold, which if you follow my tumblr you've seen me talking about. The other one will follow "Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me" and is already well under way.

Part 22 - You Were a Kindness

Media:

Words: 3700

Rating: Explicit

Category: M/M

Tags: Porn, Comfort Sex, Nightmares, Anal Fingering, Anal Sex, Established Relationship, Implied/Referenced Torture, Panic Attacks

NB: Loki's strategy of "dealing with his problems through sex" is not one I endorse, just so we are clear. But it is one that is fun to write. And sometimes you just have to break up your intense, character driven fic projects with a good 3k pornfic. It's important. (Pornfic full of feelings because we're still with me, okay.)

Part 23 - Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me

Media: None

Words: 19069

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Captain America: The Winter Soldier Spoilers, Post-Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Post-Movie(s), Established Relationship, Emotional Baggage, Jealousy, Rescue Missions, Emotional Hurt, Everybody Suffers

Part 24 - these little things define us

Media: None

Words: 6374

Rating: General Audiences

Category: Gen, M/M

Tags: Conversations, Post-Captain America: The Winter Soldier, Established Relationship

NB: I knew as I wrapped up "Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me" that it needed a follow up fic for the things I couldn't fit into the thing itself. This is that fic, and while I'm not quite sure I achieved what I was hoping to, I achieved something. Let this also serve as the announcement that I have started work on the next full length installment of this series which I am really excited about, and it is already over 8000 words and not even close to halfway done. So it may be a bit.

In the meantime, think about Loki and Bucky being weird friends. Just think about it.

Part 25 - the sun is rising

Media: None

Words: 3408

Rating: Explicit

Category: M/M

Tags: Porn, Plot What Plot/Porn Without Plot, Anal Sex, Praise Kink, Makeup Sex, Established Relationship

NB: This fic was inspired by an ask from tumblr user sit-down-at-a-keyboard-and-bleed approximately forever ago, and just now finally got written. I decided to set it after "Last Night I Dreamt That Somebody Loved Me" because Steve and Loki seemed like they needed some relationship affirming porn. Because reasons. (Sometimes you just have to write porn, and yet somehow whenever I do it it ends up all feelings-y. Well, no surprises there, I guess.

Part 26 - This is my Kingdom Come

Media: None

Words: 68283

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Post-Avengers Asgard, Canon-Typical Violence, Injury, Established Relationship, Politics, Protective Steve Rogers, Odin’s B+ Parenting, Fantasy Racism, Steve Rogers & Natasha Romanov Friendship

Part 27 - The Long Way Home

Media: None

Words: 10076

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Aftermath, Conversations, Feelings, Established Relationship, Implied/Referenced Self-Harm, Self-Hatred, Loki Feels, Identity Issues

Part 28 - but I am hellbound

Media: None

Words: 4298

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Implied/Referenced Suicide, Depression, Feelings, Angst, Established Relationship

Part 29 - Gnosienne

Media: None

Words: 11130

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: Gen, M/M

Tags: Family, Family Drama, Family Feels, Dysfunctional Family, Odin’s B+ Parenting, Frigga (Marvel) Feels, Thor Feels, Loki Feels, Loki Angst

NB: Eons ago, shortly after I finished "This Is My Kingdom Come" (so, like, two years) I started tossing around the idea of writing something in Remember This Cold where Frigga visits Loki on Earth, as she promised to do in that fic. Two years later, here it is. I started writing it quite a while ago, but only recently did it really kick into gear, and then promptly expanded into something much larger than planned. I always knew this was going to be emotional; I didn't know it was going to be this long.

I have a lot of feelings about this fic and ended up being pretty proud of it. If you know me, you know that's kind of a big deal. The focus here is more on Loki's relationship with his family than on his relationship with Steve, which is different from pretty much every other installment of this fic - but it's always been important to me in building this universe to remember that there is much more to both of them than their relationships with each other.

gnossienne n. a moment of awareness that someone you’ve known for years still has a private and mysterious inner life, and somewhere in the hallways of their personality is a door locked from the inside, a stairway leading to a wing of the house that you’ve never fully explored—an unfinished attic that will remain maddeningly unknowable to you, because ultimately neither of you has a map, or a master key, or any way of knowing exactly where you stand.

Part 30 - I’ll Keep You (My Dirty Little Secret)

Media: None

Words: 2322

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: M/M

Tags: Secret Relationship, Steve Rogers Feels, Interviews, Established Relationship

NB: I've talked some on my tumblr about how I've thought about Steve/Loki in the context of the wider world, and what if Steve/Loki became a publically known thing? But considering this led very quickly to realizing that it would create a shitstorm that would...probably destroy everything I've built in this verse. The outcry about Loki being on Earth alone, ignoring the part where he was in a relationship with Captain America, would tear Steve's life apart, and there would be no peaceful way, most likely, of insulating Loki from the outcry.

So, if I can't deal with this problem actually happening in the Remember This Cold 'verse, I realized that I can at least deal with Steve coming to recognize the problem in a conscious way - and realizing that it might be a problem. And that's what this fic is - just a short little piece about one of the many logistical problems of the Steve/Loki relationship in terms of their respective roles and reputations.

Part 31 - don’t give it a hand, offer it a soul

Media: Title from Hozier’s It Will Come Back. Click here for video and lyrics.

Words: 2252

Rating: General Audiences

Category: M/M

Tags: Heat Stroke, Fantastic Racism, Self-Hatred, Hurt/Comfort, Loki Feels, Loki Angst, Hurt Loki

NB: This fic is set...somewhere between "This Is My Kingdom Come" and "Collapse the Light Into Earth" in the larger Remember This Cold timeline. Before Steve and Loki move out, obviously.

Part 32 - Collapse the Light Into Earth

Media: Title from Porcupine Tree’s Collapse the Light Into Earth. Click here for video and lyrics. Additional suggested listening Into Eternity from the Thor 2 soundtrack; click here for video and music.

Words: 29182

Rating: Teen & Up

Category: Gen, M/M

Tags: Revenge, Revenge Roadtrip, Dysfunctional Friendship, Canon-Typical Violence, Suicidal Thoughts, Sad, Emotional Hurt, Hydra (Marvel), Disaster Friends, Angst, Tissue Warning

Part 33 - won’t heal given time

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Part 34 - won’t let the shadows take their toll

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Part 35 - I won’t cover my head in the dark

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Part 36 - Retrospective

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Part 37 - Family Matters

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Part 38 - you can buy your other friends (but you can’t buy me)

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Part 39 - (hang on) when the water is rising

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Part 40 - comfort those who suffer

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Part 41 - your heart’s still beating

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Part 42 - I’ve got my love to keep me warm

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Part 43 - shadow plays

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Part 44 - Pedagogy

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Part 45 - you’re not riding on this wave alone

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Part 46 - Shrapnel

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Part 47 - where will I end up, tonight?

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Part 48 - Truthtelling

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Part 49 - the sword alone, the shield forsaken

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Part 50 - don’t care if heaven won’t take me back

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Part 51 - are you a saint or a sinner?

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Part 52 - to face unafraid the plans we’ve made

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Part 53 - as we dream by the fire

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Part 54 - you could see planets and stars

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Part 55 - the water is getting colder

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Part 56 - we’re not the only ones

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Part 57 - unexpected guests

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Part 58 - we can see the future (and the dreams it’s made of)

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Part 59 - one hand on my throat, and one on your heart

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Part 60 - the mercy covering me

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Part 61 - Every Little Earthquake

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Part 62 - it’s what you make

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Part 63 - see you on the other side of the war

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#remember this cold #rtc #table of contents #toc #veliseraptor #wip #splinteredwinter

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iamanartichoke · 2 years

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I am struggling to have a Thought, here, but -

I was rereading my fic, The Air Between Two Stars, in which Thor basically brings Loki back to life; it diverges from canon after IW bc Endgame hadn't come out yet when I wrote it.

So I came across these lines (edited for conciseness):

“How?” Loki asks ... "How did you bring me back?” "Magic," says Thor, simply. [...] There are ancient resurrection spells that Loki has knowledge of, dark magic performed at great risk to the mage. It is possible. It is also extremely dangerous. He never would have imagined Thor would consider him worth such trouble. Certainly, after fooling Thor twice, Loki owed it to him to die for real so that Thor’s mourning would not be in vain.

I stopped bc that last line sort of jumped at me - after fooling Thor twice, Loki owed it to him to die for real. And it just struck me, like, I wonder how many people (if any) read that line and felt indignant and mentally yelled at me bc Loki never really faked his death, intentionally.

And it's like, yes, I, Charlotte, the writer, know that Loki didn't set out to intentionally fool Thor by faking his death. But my being cognizant of that on a meta level doesn't mean Loki can't feel like he's fooled Thor, in the story, and that all of Thor's mourning him has been in vain.

It just seems like - especially in the wake of the series - that wiggly space between what the author knows and what the character feels has been lost? Like, I'm not saying the narrative (not just in the series but over the span of the entire MCU) hasn't been unfair to Loki in a lot of ways, including regarding his "faked" deaths, but I also feel like a lot of wank stems from people wanting the narrative to be so "fair" that it hinders how Loki can function as a character in the story being told.

Not sure if that makes sense or not, but like - I guess what I'm saying is that this is yet another area where there's just a whole lotta gray in an increasingly black-and-white definition of "analysis." And it just makes me feel some kinda way, I guess.

#charlotte writes #standom frank #i read this fic once where throughout a series of events #loki ended up getting to tell his side of the story and the avengers were appropriately chagrined #I'm not getting too specific bc i'm not trying to call out anyone's fic or anything but #i just remember reading it and at first it was satisfying to find a narrative that #validated loki in All The Ways but then as the story went on it felt less and less satisfying #and more like the author was just using Loki as a device through which to spill their meta #to the point it didn't even feel like a story anymore and i don't remember if i even finished it #so idk i guess my point is that yes i have as much beef as anyone with the canon narrative #irt how loki is potrayed/treated BUT at the same time i acknowledge that there's just #possibly some intentional dramatic irony in the discrepencies that needs to be considered too #my god this is a pointless post #*saves to drafts*#well fuck it i'll just post it i guess

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iamanartichoke · 1 year

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So, is anyone on TikTok? I’ve gotten sucked back into it but I have no friends lmao. I am @artichokie883 over there - so, yeah.

#the charlotte lennox diaries #mood gif #tiktok is my current hyperfixation #if i can combine tiktok with loki meta i might have a gold mine #then again tiktok discourse scares the shit out of me so idk if i wanna drift into that lane

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iamanartichoke · 3 years

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I wrote a Thing. It’s extremely long. I’d prefer it not be reblogged; I wrote this for my own catharsis and would prefer it not be circulated, bc of Reasons.

I changed my mind, okay to reblog. <3

Under a cut for (extreme, did I mention?) length.

So I got about 12 minutes of sleep last night, as you do, and around 3am or so I found myself - out of sheer curiosity - going down a meta hole of Ragnarok discourse, trying to figure out where this "satisfying redemption arc" for Loki happened. (I mean, there's a lot of things I would like to figure out, but I started there.) Because I could.

Basically I was looking for meta that went into detail about how Loki was redeemed in a satisfactory way. The ‘satisfactory’ is an important word here bc there is a redemption arc in the film, in that Loki starts off the film as an antagonist (kinda) to Thor and he ends the film as an ally to Thor, standing at Thor's side. In that sense, yes, there's a redemption arc. I didn't find much (and I had no idea how much people just despise Ragnarok "antis" [I really dislike that word] but that's another topic [that I don't particularly want to get into, tbh]) but I did find some. I read what I could find, and I read it open-mindedly, and overall I came away feeling like, okay, there are some valid points being made here and I can kinda see where they're coming from.

But it was a bit (a lot) like -- flat. Idk. The best comparison I can think of is that it’s like if a literature class read, I don't know, The Yellow Wallpaper for an assignment, and some of the students came away from it feeling like it was a creepy story about a woman slowly driving herself insane, and the other students came away from it incensed at the oppression and infantilization of women in the late 19th century -

- and neither side is wrong, but the former is a very surface-level reading and the latter isn't (bc it stems from looking at why she drives herself insane, why she was prescribed 'rest' in the first place, the context of what women could and couldn't do back then, etc; basically, a bit more work has to go into it).

[Note: I am not disparaging the quality of The Yellow Wallpaper. At all. It’s just the first relatively well-known story that popped into my head.]

In this sense, I can see the argument for Loki's redemption arc, but I don't think it's a very good argument. Not invalid, but not great.

I mean, for example, I think the most consistent argument I found variations of re: Loki's redemption is that Ragnarok shows Loki finally taking responsibility for his bad behaviour and misdeeds. This includes recognizing that his actions were fueled from a place of self-hatred and a desire to self-destruct in addition to bringing destruction on others. That he probably feels awkward and regretful of these things and doesn't know how to act around Thor, but he figures it out by the end, and decides that returning to Asgard is the best way to show that he's ready to make amends. His act of bringing the Statesman to Asgard is an apology. He allies himself with Thor and ends up in a better place, both narratively (united with Thor once again) and mentally (having taken responsibility and made amends for his past).

And setting aside that he had already made amends by sacrificing his life in TDW (and also setting aside that the argument is made that Loki redeems himself in IW by sacrificing himself to Thanos but if that's the case, wouldn't that imply that he hadn't achieved redemption in Ragnarok or else there would be no need to achieve it again in IW? Or, if you think he did achieve redemption in Ragnarok, then what the fuck did he give his life in IW for? What was his motivation there, and why did the narrative not make it clearer? I digress.)

- setting aside those two factors, I think this is a very fair argument. Loki is fueled by self-hatred, and he does want to self-destruct, and he does want to inflict that pain on others as well (particularly Thor). No lies detected here.

However, I also need to know where that self-hatred and desire for destruction (toward himself and others) comes from and for that, we need to go back to Thor 1.

Thor 1.

Loki starts Thor 1 out as "a clenched fist with hair," to borrow a quote from the Haunting of Hill House (that I tucked away in my mental box of Lovely Things bc it says so much so very simply). He's very used to bottling everything up, pushing it down; he slinks around behind the scenes, pulling the strings to this plot or that. He's "always been one for mischief," but the narrative implies that the coronation incident is the first time Loki's done anything truly terrible. And it all immediately pretty much goes to shit, so Loki spends the rest of the movie frantically juggling all these moving pieces while trying to seem as if he's got it all under control, every step of the way. That's how I view his actions.

But I always come back to that quote where Kenneth Branaugh tells Tom, of the scene in the vault, "This is where the thin steel rod that's been holding your mind together snaps." In other words this is where Loki discovering he's Jotun is just one thing too many. He can't take it. But though the rod snaps, his descent isn't a nosedive. It's a tumble. As the story progresses, the clenched fist starts to loosen, the muscles are flexed in unfamiliar ways (that feel kinda good, after being stiff for so long), and it culminates with the hand opening completely and shaking itself out. All of that repression, that self-hatred, that rage and jealousy just explodes so that, by the time the bifrost scene happens, Loki's already hit bottom. It's not just about proving his worthiness to Odin. He wants to hurt Thor, too; he, essentially, throws a tantrum. (That's right, I said tantrum.)

(Note: The word 'tantrum’ has negative connotations bc we normally equate it with a toddler stamping their feet and screaming in the aisle when their parent won't buy them the toy they want. But in itself, the word tantrum isn't infantalizing. It's an "emotional outburst, an uncontrolled explosion of anger and frustration" [paraphrasing from dictionary.com]. That's exactly what happens here [and why Tom called Loki's actions a massive tantrum, but people took that to mean Tom agreed it was childish whereas I doubt Tom meant it that way]).

He's been pushed past his limit, and he does bad things. He does really shitty things. He hurts Thor, he hurts his family. I'm pretty sure he knows this all along so this isn't, like, some revelation further down the line that "hey, those things I did were probably kinda bad." He got the memo already.

Ragnarok

Fast forward to Ragnarok, and we're introduced to a version of Loki who's had 4ish years to sit with everything that's happened. To sit with it and not do much else. The rawness of it has faded, and now it seems as though it's just become a thing, like when you move through life aware of your childhood traumas and have more or less just accepted them (and you probably share a lot of really funny depression memes on Facebook, which is kinda the equivalent of Loki's play, but that's probably just me).

Loki has, more or less, chilled out. He seems more bored than anything else; he's been masquerading as Odin for longer than he ever planned or intended to, so he's more or less ended up hanging out, letting Asgard mind its own business, and entertaining himself with silly plays. This is the version that starts out the movie as an antagonist to Thor - a version that is, arguably, in a much different place [and is a much milder threat] than the version who originally did those Bad Things.

And of course Thor is still mad at him, and of course they're going to butt heads, because that's what they do (and Thor's grievances are genuine, I’ll add, bc it's not really his fault he assumed Loki faked his death, nor can he be blamed for being pissed about Odin).

One argument framed this version of Loki as being a person who is facing the awkwardness of coming out of a dark place, which is fair. If we're going to frame his actions in Thor 1 as a tantrum, then Ragnarok would be the part where the toddler has been taken home, possibly has had some lunch and a juice box, and is now watching cartoons. They're over the tantrum, and would probably feel pretty silly about it if they weren't, yknow, toddlers. They probably can't remember why they even wanted that toy so badly. If they're a little older and self-aware, they might even be embarrassed for having melted down.

Like the word tantrum, this feeling isn't a thing limited to toddlers. I know I've had a few epic meltdowns as a grown ass adult, and I know I always feel deeply embarrassed afterwards - like, want to crawl into a hole and die. I've said things I can't take back. Adolescents and teenagers throw tantrums, mentally ill people throw tantrums, adults throw tantrums (I mean, my god, look at all the videos of Karens having screaming meltdowns - screaming! - over having to wear masks in order to shop at stores). Humans throw tantrums. And usually, after the feelings have been let out and the tantrum has passed, humans feel pretty regretful and awkward and embarrassed about whatever they did and said in the midst of their meltdown.

I get all of that and agree it's valid and that Loki probably feels it. By the time Ragnarok happens, Loki's had some time to reflect and think hmm, yeah, probably could've handled that one a lot better. The argument further goes that in order to navigate this awkward period, Loki must come to terms with what he's done, acknowledge that some things can't be unsaid or undone, and begin to make amends. Supposedly, some people feel that Loki becomes a better person because he does "own" everything he did wrong and, even though he feels like a jackass (paraphrasing), he sets that aside to become a become a better person by choosing to help Thor and Asgard at the end.

Thus, the overall arc goes like this. Loki, Thor's jealous little brother,

throws a tantrum of epic proportions bc Reasons

continues to act badly and make things even worse (Avengers)

has to face consequences for his actions (prison sentence)

ends up with a stretch of time in which he's free to contemplate and chill out

feels embarrassed and awkward about how he's behaved

sees an opportunity to make up for it and decides to take it

helps Thor, saves the day, and ends the film a better person.

Redemption achieved.

None of this is wrong. The film supports it. It's a fair interpretation. But it leaves. out. so. much.

To circle all the way back around Loki being "a clenched fist with hair," and his actions stemming from his self-hatred, you have to ask - how did he get that way? He didn't end up with all this self-hatred on accident. Generally, one isn't born despising themselves, it's a learned behavior. (I realize chemical imbalances are a thing, obviously, as I have Mental Shit myself, but for argument's sake I'm assuming that's not the case with Loki [at this point in time]).

Where did Loki learn it? From his family, from his surroundings, from his culture. We see examples of these microaggressions in the first, like, twenty minutes of the movie - a guard openly laughs at Loki's magic after Thor makes a joke about it (the tone of the conversation implies that Thor "jokes" like this often) and though Loki does the snake thing, the guard faces no real consequences. Thor doesn't acknowledge that anything went amiss. Not much later, on their way to Jotunheim, Loki's barely gotten two words out to Heimdall before Thor cuts him off, steps in front of him, and takes charge. Loki doesn't look annoyed at this; he looks resigned.

Then, for absolutely no reason at all, Volstagg decides to make a jab at Loki ("silver tongue turned to lead?") just because he can. The ease with which he makes this comment and the way that no one else blinks an eye at it implies that this isn't out of the norm. And Loki doesn't react, not really. In the deleted version, he delivers a particularly nasty comeback but he delivers it under his breath, without intending Volstagg to hear it. In the final version, he simply says nothing, though his expression can be read as hurt or stung. Either way, the audience sees an example of Loki being walked all over by Thor and his friends and bottling up his reactions instead of standing up for himself.

Microaggressions matter. They are mentally and emotionally damaging. They hurt. The implication that this is not unusual treatment for Loki means that Loki's probably gone through this for most of his life. It's like the equivalent of being, I don't know, twenty two and you're the friend who has to walk behind the others when the sidewalk isn't wide enough, and it's been that way since the first day of kindergarten. At this point, you're used to it, but that doesn't make it hurt any less when the jabs come seemingly out of nowhere, for no reason other than to make you feel bad.

(I personally identify a lot with this bc I experienced passive bullying in social settings for years. I was the 'doesn't fit on the sidewalk' friend; I hung around with people who'd pretend to be my friend and would be more or less nice to my face, but would laugh at me and make fun of me behind my back for whatever reasons. And often there'd be the random jabs at me, things that would come out of nowhere to smack me in the face, followed by the fake laugh and “just kidding!" so that I couldn't even get upset without being made to feel like I was overreacting and couldn't take a joke. I'd deal with this socially, particularly in middle school when girls are their most vicious, and then I'd go home and, because I was the only girl with a lot of brothers and because boys are mean and because I am who I am, the dynamic was that my brothers would just endlessly roast me to my face and sometimes it was a "just kidding!" thing, where I was the only one not laughing. But that’s beside the point; my point is that microaggressions, passive bullying, and consistent invalidation are harmful and that shit stays with you into adulthood.)

So, yes, Loki needs to be held responsible for his misdeeds, and it's valid to say that he recognizes those misdeeds and wants to make amends. I have never disagreed with that. But the problem with this interpretation is that it lets every single other character who contributed to Loki's self-hatred and mental breakdown (let's just call a spade a spade here, that's what it was; he was broken psychologically) get off scot-free.

First of all,

Odin is not held accountable for instilling in the princes a mentality of Asgard first, everyone is beneath us but Jotuns are benath us the most, they are literal monsters. He is not held accountable for pitting his sons against one another (even if it was unintentional, he still did it) with "you were both born to be kings but only one of you can rule" being the general tone of their upbringing. He's not held accountable for his favoritism toward Thor.

Frigga is not held accountable for deferring to Odin both in supporting the above things and in keeping the truth of Loki's origins a secret while doing nothing to discourage the "monsters" narrative.

Thor is not held accountable for his own tendency of taking Loki for granted (he assumes Loki will come to Jotunheim, he oversteps Loki constantly, “know your place,” etc.. He grants his implicit permission for Loki to be treated as the sidewalk friend in their “group,” a group which is loyal to and takes their cues from Thor as Thor continues to do nothing in his brother's defense).

[Note: Wanting Thor to be held accountable for things he's done wrong isn't vilifying him. Acknowledging that Thor benefited from Odin's favoritism and his own place as Crown Prince doesn't negate Thor also being raised in an abusive environment. I don't think anyone's saying that or, if they have, it's not something I agree with.]

Furthermore,

Odin is not held accountable for his cruelty in disowning Loki (”your birthright was to die” is never going to be forgotten, speaking of people saying things that can't be unsaid or taken back) and in sentencing Loki to a severe prison sentence (life! only bc Frigga wouldn't let him execute Loki) for crimes that are no worse than what Odin himself has committed (around which the entire plot of Ragnarok revolves! Colonialism (and subjugation) is wrong is, like, a major theme [that people rush to praise, even] here).

Thor is also never held accountable for not trying harder to understand what made Loki snap (fair enough, he didn't have a ton of time after returning from Earth, but certainly he had lots of time to sit around reflecting while Loki was being tortured by Thanos for a year). He knows Loki is "not himself" and "beyond reason" and accepts it at face value; he questions it once and then lets it go. He's fine with assuming Loki's just lost his mind, and isn't that a shame. (I realize I'm simplifying Thor's emotions but my point is that Thor could've tried harder to figure out that Loki was being influenced and/or not acting completely autonomously.)

Thor is also never held accountable for - if not facing consequences for his own slaughter of Jotuns - then at least addressing why Loki can't kill an entire race even though Thor tried to do that, like, two days ago. (Granted, it’s difficult to understand how Thor got from Point A ("let's finish them together, Father!") to Point B (this is wrong!), but that failing belongs to Thor 1 (which is not, by the way, a perfect movie).

The interpretation that Loki is fully redeemed because he took responsibility for his actions, returned to Asgard, and allied himself with Thor to save their people is all well and good - but, why is Loki the only one here who has to take responsibility for their actions?

What about all the loose threads in his story?

For example, how did he get from:

Point A (believing himself a literal monster, having a complete mental breakdown, getting tortured and further traumatized after that, etc)

Point B (Hey, yknow what would be fun? I'm going to write and direct a play about how I heroically died to save Thor and Jane, and I'll go ahead and have Odin say he accepts me and has always loved me. I'm going to do these things because Odin never said this in real life and instead of acknowledging my sacrifice, Thor left my body in the dirt, so someone has to validate what I've done right and that someone might as well be me. And hey, while I'm at it, I'm going to control the narrative on revealing myself as Jotun to Asgard, instead of living in fear of it being found out, and I'm going to do it in a way that they have to sympathize with me and revere me in death, bc they never bothered to do so when I was alive. And Matt Damon should play me, also.)

Point C (Yeah, I guess I feel kinda awkward about that whole tantrum thing, also I should help Thor and support him being king.)

The answers to these questions are handwaved and the audience takes that to mean they don't matter. Furthermore, framing Loki's redemption around an act of service (more or less) to Thor makes Loki's redemption about Thor. Does Loki make this decision for the sake of Thor and of Asgard, or does he make it for himself? It's not super clear to me, and I think arguments can be made for both. Which, again, is fine, but - whatever.

If we're going to collectively agree, as a fandom, that Loki is complex, that he's morally gray, that he's worthy of redemption and therefore arguably a good person who's done bad things, then why is it asking too much to have it acknowledged that Thor (also a good person who's done bad things) played a part in Loki's downfall and has shit to apologize for, too? Bc one can only assume the reason is that you're taking a very gray concept and making it black and white by saying Loki has to apologize and make amends because he is the villain, and Thor doesn't because he is the hero (and it's his movie). And it's lazy.

This is where the crux of the issue lands. There's more than one valid interpretation, yes. And no two people (or groups of people, or whatever) are going to consume and therefore interpret or analyze the source material in the same way. I think I saw a post recently about how studies have been done on this, in fact. But, there is a lot going on under the surface that tends to get overlooked when exploring Loki's redemption arc in Ragnarok, as far as I can see, and that’s why I don’t consider it satisfactory.

[I did read similar arguments regarding other issues that are often debated ('debated'), like Loki's magic and/or being underpowered, whether or not Loki's betrayal of Thor was the natural outcome of the situation on Sakaar or not, whether Thor actually gets closure with Odin [if he does, how does he reconcile the father he's idolized with the imperialistic conqueror he's discovered? Why doesn't he hold Odin responsible for covering up Hela's existence and the threat of her return, especially as he knew he was nearing the end of his life? Is Thor's "I'm not as strong as you" meant to imply that he acknowledges those shortcomings of Odin's and that he's okay with them, or that he's just overlooking them, or is he not okay with them but didn't have the chance to get into it bc he was in the middle of battle? T'Challa confronted his father on his wrongdoings in Black Panther; could Thor not have had at least one line that was confrontational enough to establish where he stands as opposed to this gray middle? Can someone explain to me how any of this equates to Thor gaining closure? Please?) but obviously I'm not going to go into all of them (well, I tried not to), bc this mammoth post has gone on long enough (I may not even post this tbh)]

- but my overall point to this entire thing is that when I say I'm critical of Ragnarok bc it's flawed, that Loki's arc was neither complete nor satisfactory, that many things went unaddressed and, due to all of these things, I do not think Ragnarok is a very good movie nor a very cohesive movie, this is where I'm coming from. I have not seen anything to change my mind to the contrary.

But I am not saying that anyone satisfied with it is wrong, or shouldn't have the interpretation that they do. I'm not vilifying Thor in order to lift Loki up, just acknowledging that Thor is arguably just as flawed as Loki without the stigma of being Designated Villain. I think a lot of these arguments get overlooked or dismissed, and that's fine, but it doesn't make the people who do engage with them hateful, or bitter, or trying to excuse Loki's crimes, or feeling like redemption means that Loki's crimes should be erased rather than reconciled.

And sure, yes, perhaps we are expecting too much and exploring all of these themes (or wanting them explored) means that somehow we think it should be Loki's movie (we don't). Loki is a supporting character, but he's still a character. And the movie itself doesn't have to delve into all these things - no one's saying that. (At least, I'm not.) We just want acknowledgement, from the narrative, that this stuff was an Issue.

This could have been accomplished with -

Some dialogue closer to the novelization (and original script), like Thor and Loki both acknowledging the harm they've done one another and their kingdom due to their Feels.

A single line of Thor confronting Odin, or even asking "Why?"

A narrative acknowledgement that Odin did both Thor and Loki dirty (”I love you, my sons” isn't an apology, because it doesn't acknowledge either that there's been wrong-doing or express regret for having done the wrong in the first place).

A little bit more nuance in the way Loki treats his own past (ie, instead of flippantly telling the story of his suicide attempt, maybe - if it must be flippant - talk about getting blasted in the face with Hawkeye's arrow or sailing through to Svartalfheim [And in that moment, I sang ta-daaaa!]) or whatever.

I recognize that wanting full, in-depth exploration on all of these issues regarding a supporting character is probably too much to ask or expect - but, I also feel like, if you're going to be professionally writing a narrative (or rewriting/improvising, as it were), it's not too much to ask that a little more care be taken in regards to all of the layers that have contributed to said supporting character's downfall and subsequent redemption arc. I don't think that's an unreasonable thing to want.

And maybe if there had been more nuance and continuity in how these things were portrayed on screen (ie, if TW had actually done as good a job as his stans think he did), the fandom wouldn't have divided and conquered itself over which "version" of the same character is more valid and whether or not the film did its best to close out a trilogy (not start a new one), to the point where everyone in this fandom space makes navigating it feel like walking through a minefield.

But, I mean

(Again, please don’t reblog if possible.)

Edit: Okay to reblog. <3

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iamanartichoke · 2 years

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My Loki Series Journey, In Real Time: Part 1; or, My Blog Used to be Better

I will link to the post again below, but basically I went back to read this post where I expressed that, while I was finding the series enjoyable enough, I was also very disappointed in it. And after that, I started going back to read some other reaction posts and ended up just retracing my steps as the Loki series aired, how my opinions fluctuated, and where I eventually landed. I found it interesting to see how my opinions shifted and varied as the fandom seemed to get more and more ... difficult to navigate? And I found fewer and fewer people who shared my opinions, as most people seemed to land at either end of an extremely black-and-white interpretation - ie, either the show was brilliant or it was garbage, with no in-between. And at some point I stopped talking about a lot of these things, or stopped feeling like I could talk about these things, idk. Regardless, I decided I wanted to put together a "master post" so that all these metas would be in one place. So this is part 1.

Under the cut for length.

Reaction Posts

1st official trailer reaction

Episode 1 initial reaction

Episode 2 initial reaction

Episode 3 initial reaction (in gifs, bc apparently I was incapable of coherent thought)

Episode 4 initial reaction + additional snippets of thought

Episode 5 initial reaction - the positive

Episode 5 initial reaction - the negative

Meta Posts

Loki *can* be manipulated by Mobius, actually

Wait, did I interpret this wrong? Re: the framing of episode 1, Mobius's interrogation, and the TVA as a moral authority

Oops, I'm starting to split away from my usual crowd

On Loki's MCU death

"Incredibly perverse," indeed.

Predestination and free will; or, 'I got pruned bc I stopped at Dunkin Donuts before work'

On Loki and mental health

What's up with Loki following Mobius around, anyway?

My initial reaction to Sylki; or, Loki is adorable with a crush, fight me

"Loki can do what now?"; or, apparently Loki can use magic

The TVA isn't framed as good, ffs

The fandom writing's on the wall

Also Loki's not a narcissist

Can the real Loki please have a cameo? Oh wait, Tom's already on set.

It's not bad. It's just, you know, not really *good*; or, I'm starting to settle in on my overall opinion of the series.

Shitposts (with feeling!)

On Heimdall / D.B. Cooper

That time the fandom exploded over sleeping!Loki

Candy on Asgard

A wild teletubby appeared.

#charlotte's loki meta graveyard #charlotte's loki series meta #loki series #long post #links post #this is probably pretty self-indulgent but whatever

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iamanartichoke · 3 years

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Another totally unprompted ask, on the assumption that you are definitely no longer in need of them… another thing I’m trying to work out about Loki characterisation in preparation for perpetrating fic torture on him is how suicidal the poor sod is most of the time. This is another thing I’ve seen referred to a lot but only in passing. Though obviously this is a pretty triggery topic, so ignore if you want.

I am always in need of totally unprompted asks, otherwise I just assume no one wants to talk to me lmao

So, hoo boy. I have been mulling over this for, apparently, three days now bc there's just ... there's a lot to unpack here. Putting under a cut for obviously triggery content and also for length bc fml.

In my opinion, the response to "how suicidal is Loki most of the time" is "very, but whether or not he wants to do anything about it varies from moment to moment" (see what I did there? I'll see myself out). In other words, I have always had a headcanon that Loki is consistently, passively suicidal. This is a headcanon that comes straight from TDW, bc I'm certain that Loki never had any intention of surviving their mission. And that could be a whole other post, really, but the point is that even though this is a TDW-centric headcanon, I have come to adopt it as applying to Loki in general as well, not just in those specific circumstances.

When I say passively suicidal, I mean that Loki is just sort of ambivalent about the value of his own life. He feels like he doesn't deserve to be alive, and feels like there's little point in being alive. Which - I don't mean to sound all gloom and doom, like, poor uwu emo Loki (and I kinda hate that I have to pause to disclaim that, no, I don't just have a fixation on Loki being depressed for funsies/the aesthetic/whatever); I think that this mindset stems from really complicated places that I'm not sure I can articulate, but I will try.

I view Loki as someone who suffers from a severe inferiority complex, and I feel like it stems from being abandoned as an infant. Loki's life started with a traumatic event and, even if he doesn't remember the event itself, the feelings he experienced stayed in his subconscious. Feelings of loss, of fear, of despair and abandonment, of suffering - these are all feelings that burrowed into his bones and lived there for his entire life, feelings that colored how Loki viewed himself as a person as well as how he compared to the people around him.

Keep in mind that Loki didn't know he was abandoned until the events of Thor 1, obviously. We don't really know how old Loki is, in human years, but I have always assumed that he and Thor were at least adults (not teenagers), maybe the equivalent of early twenties - and the reason I bring that up is because it means Loki made it all the way to adulthood carrying the weight of a trauma that he did not remember or even knew had happened, so to him, there was no real reason for how wrong he felt. There was no explanation for the feelings of loss, of neglect, of fear. So on top of struggling with those feelings, Loki was also burdened with the alienation that comes with wondering why one can't just be like everyone else, why one can't just "snap out" of depression, why one's sense of self-worth has always been lacking.

So imagine what it's like to grow up as Loki. He was traumatized as an infant. The trauma has been with him his entire life, along with the confusion/alienation of not understanding why he feels the way that he does, and then on top of that, his basic personality lends itself toward introspection and isolation, so he likely felt even further removed from Thor and from his peers. Loki's too smart for his own good, and he's got an enormous capacity to feel and I feel like this is a combination that works against him as much as it does for him, bc it probably means he spent a lot of time examining himself and identifying all of his perceived flaws - and then berating himself for said flaws.

People with depression are probably pretty familiar with the bully that lives in your head, the one who is always there to remind you that you're stupid, or ugly, or that nobody likes you, or that you have nothing of value to contribute to anyone, etc. Loki's no different; he's got that bully in his head, too. Add onto this the fact that his brother is literally perfect, that he feels his father doesn't love him (or love him as much), that his interests in things like magic are looked down on in his culture, and that he's a prince (meaning that along with the privilege comes pressure, and being in the public eye, knowing that everyone around him is comparing him to Thor as much as he compares himself to Thor, well.) and you have a total clusterfuck of a mindset, and Loki's been existing inside of that clusterfuck for nearly all of his life.

I always go back to the quote where, when filming I think the vault scene, Kenneth Branagh directs Tom by saying, "This is the moment where the thin steel rod holding your brain together snaps." And it's such a significant moment for Loki bc this is where it all crumbles for him, learning the truth, but I also fixate on the "thin steel rod" part of the quote bc that's not how one would describe a healthy, stable person's mind. The implication, to me, has always been that Loki wasn't that stable to start with due to his general upbringing, his internal struggles, and his personality, so of course the devastation of learning he's adopted, and Jotun, would send him over the edge. One doesn't go from zero to 60; one doesn't fall over the edge unless they were balancing fairly close to it in the first place. And to me, the "thin steel rod" basically equals the aforementioned clusterfuck of a mindset.

THE POINT IS. (Holy shit, I ramble.) This is the foundation on which I'm basing my headcanon that Loki neither values his life nor feels as if he even deserves to live it - bc his default mindset is one of inferiority, of loss, of pain. And I think that going from being a general unstable person pre-canon to being passively suicidal post-canon is a thing that happened because, somewhere between the vault in Thor 1 and the dungeons in TDW, Loki just stopped caring.

Life is exhausting for everyone, but even moreso when your mental load becomes more than you can carry. Loki is exhausted. His experience is that things just keep getting worse and worse for him - he's never been valued, he's always been found wanting. He discovers that he was literally thrown away as an infant, unwanted and left to die, and things haven't gotten much better for him since then. Everything that can go wrong, does go wrong. His plans spin out of control. He's unable to prove his worth and his value and when he is, in fact, rejected, he literally tries to kill himself (only to survive and end up in an even worse situation).

It all just continually goes downhill, and Loki is fucking exhausted. He's done. He has no hope that anything is ever going to change - he will never be valued or even seen, he's unable to connect to anyone, he has no family (aside from Thor, but their relationship is so fraught with pain). As far as he's concerned, his life has been nothing but a waste since he was born and if no one else values it, why should he?

So - passively suicidal. He places no value on his life, and doesn't shy away from situations that could cost him his life. It's possible that the only reason he's not actively suicidal is bc his previous attempt not only failed but led to such a horrible situation that he's probably too afraid to intentionally seek out death again. He doesn't want to fail and end up worse off for it.

And - not that you asked this in particular, but - my biggest disappointment in the series is that none of what I've just written is addressed in a satisfying way (to me). That is, we don't get any real explicit acknowledgement of the trauma of Loki's abandonment as a baby or how that affected his mental health growing up; we don't get to explore how devastated he was to learn of his adoption; we don't ever see him reconcile his ingrained belief that jotuns are monstrous savages with the fact that he is jotun. He says "I betrayed everyone I loved, but I'm different now" and we're supposed to infer what he means without Loki actually articulating why he feels that he's the only one who should be held responsible for all these things that had happened or what "I've changed" even means to him (aside from not betraying Sylvie).

I would have liked to see these things addressed for a lot of reasons, but one of those reasons is that I would want to see how Loki comes to terms with all of his issues and his pain enough that he stops being passively suicidal. We never get to see that; after TDW, the time that passes allows for Loki to kinda chill, resulting in the Ragnarok version, but if there was any real healing or recovering going on, it was happening off-screen, with the audience expected to just go with "yeah Loki was going through it for awhile but he's kinda better now."

Furthermore, much of what I've written here is based on prime Loki's development through TDW, but doesn't account for series Loki's split from that timeline nor the theme of "Lokis survive" that's so prevalent in the series. So I don't think the "passively suicidal" headcanon is really appropriate for series Loki but, at the same time, I'd like to have seen why. I'd like to have seen Loki learning to value his life, or where the "we survive" mindset comes from, since that's not really been a thing before now. (Out of universe, I suspect it comes from the context of Loki just not dying whenever he tries to, but since TDW and IW haven't happened, and Loki didn't intend to survive his fall from the bifrost, framing Loki as an innate survivor doesn't really make sense, but to be fair, I'm just being picky.)

So, yeah. I'm not saying Loki doesn't experience growth or development in the series, I'm just saying that his arc left much unsaid and, furthermore, framing his growth as "wanting a throne to not wanting a throne" without addressing that Loki doesn't actually want the power of the throne, he wants the value and self-worth he associates with the throne, is - well, again, unsatisfying. Not bad, but it leaves viewers like me wanting bc we're cognizant of how much more could have been done.

I ... am going to end this now. This is probably nonsensical and all over the place, so I'm very sorry, and I'm sure this is why I don't get meta-starter asks lmfao bc no one's out here trying to read my dissertation submission for a Ph.D in Loki, but well, sometimes it just be like that.

Thank you for the ask and the opportunity to ramble.

#asks #charlotte replies #loki pokey artichokey #loki series #loki series criticism #loki meta #tw suicidal ideation #tw suicide attempt #tw suicide #tw mental health #tw depression #i spent two fucking hours on this yet i still feel like it's rambly nonsense #i hit stream-of-consciousness at some point and just went with it #and now i'm too lazy to revise #so i'm sorry #this'll probably only get like 10 notes anyway bc that's how it be on tumblr #put effort in and get little validation; put no effort in and everyone loses their minds

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iamanartichoke · 3 years

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I just need to say that not shipping Sylkie =/= disliking Sylvie, and currently being salty at Sylvie =/= disliking Sylvie, and it's kinda special seeing a lot of shipping wank revolving around either tearing Sylvie down as a character or assuming that not shipping her romantically with Loki somehow defines how one feels about her entirely, like she's not a whole ass person/character on her own, regardless of shipping canon.

I like Sylvie. I think she's adorable. I personally find the backstory of her entire reality being erased pretty devastating so, like, I get her motivations and think they're valid. It helps that Sophia is great in the role and she and Tom have really good chemistry, in my opinion.

So not shipping Sylkie has nothing to do with Sylvie as a character and everything to do her and Loki's dynamic reading as more platonic to me. Neither of them has ever had a friend (like, a real, true friend) and I prefer my headcanon of Loki in particular confusing caring about someone as a friend for romantic love, or even just experiencing really complicated feelings surrounding love in general (the many forms it can take, what it means to love someone else, what it means to love yourself, all feelings that can be examined without the romance aspect).

I love that Loki clearly feels so deeply for her and isn't subtle about it like, at all (plus I mean, Loki with a crush is adorable, fight me), and I think that the lack of subtlety and the kinda desperate need to keep her around ("when this is over, we can figure it out together," "you stay, I stay," etc) speaks just as much to his loneliness and his desperation to hang onto probably the first person he's emotionally connected with outside of his family as it does to actual romantic love. I don't think Loki knows what he actually wants from her, or what he actually feels for her, and I like that bc of all the possibilities of character exploration there but also bc it doesn't necessarily mean they can't fall in love down the line. It just means I think that they both need to figure out what love even is first (especially Loki).

So, I mean, yeah. Not that anyone asked me but, idk, I spent too much time in the #loki tag and from what I could see it was like - among other nonsense - a lot of hate on Sylvie as a character framed as "she's not good enough for Loki" and like, way to make her nothing more than a love interest and then complain that she's nothing more than a love interest. Don't get me wrong, you can dislike the character for whatever reasons you want (the general 'you') but I just wanted to offer another perspective, especially since every time I reblog them it feels like I'm implying I ship them and feel the need to disclaim that I don't (not sure why I care???) bc love doesn't have to be only romantic in order to be worth exploring and not liking a couple as a romantic pairing doesn't mean you have to hate one half of the couple by default.

#loki tv show spoilers #loki spoilers #loki series spoilers #loki pokey artichokey #charlotte's meta no one asked for #sylvie

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iamanartichoke · 2 years

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I still don't understand the "you were both born to be kings" thing Odin said. Loki of Jotunheim presumably but then why tell a kid that and have him purposefully misinterpret it? And I've seen some argue that age had nothing to do with it but they keep reinforcing that Thor is the "first born" and I've seen interviews where they say the fact Thor is older means he's in line for the throne? Sorry for the rant but I've been trying to figure this out since like 2011.

In order to have it all make sense to me, in my head, I've always interpreted that line - and, by extension, Asgard's ruling hierarchy - to function in much the same way that real monarchies do (or have, in the past). That is, in a ruling family, the first born (son, usually, but occasionally a daughter if she had no male siblings) was automatically the heir and would take the throne in the event anything happened to the king (or queen). After the first born, the line follows chronologically so the next oldest would be second in line, the third oldest third in line, and so on.

However, if the original heir has children, then the line changes and the heir's children become second, third, etc in line, and the heir's younger siblings fall further back. If all of the blood heirs die without leaving behind children, then the throne would go to the next closest blood relative (I think) and the line would follow that family.

Depending on how patriarchal Asgard is and how far back in human history we go, if the oldest child is a girl, she falls behind the first-born son of the family. If Asgard functioned that way, then Hela would not actually have a claim to the throne above Thor - it would go to Thor, then Loki, and then Hela. (To put it in perspective, when Henry VIII died, Edward became king despite still being a child and both Mary and Elizabeth being older. Once Edward died, only then did the line go to the women - first Mary, as the older sibling, and then to Elizabeth after Mary died.) But that's just if you headcanon that Asgard was particularly patriarchal (which tbh I think it is, but that's just me).

Now, whether or not the writers/tptb intended for Asgard to work this way is unknown, but I interpret it this way bc to me, it makes the most sense and anything else becomes kinda convoluted. It would explain why Thor is first in line to be king and, as such, Odin's first choice over Loki, but it also explains the "you were born to be kings" line, if you interpret it as "you are both born royal and you both have the potential to rule, should it work out that way." To go back to the previous example (I just like the Tudor period a lot, so it's what popped into my head), if Henry VIII told Mary, Elizabeth, and Edward, "you were born to rule," then he wouldn't necessarily be wrong or misleading. Each of them has the potential to rule and would be capable of doing so, should they find themselves on the throne. (And, ultimately, each of them did.) I feel like it's the same concept with Thor and Loki.

Of course, historically, what made kings and queens "legitimate" was the belief that they were chosen and appointed by God to rule, so saying "you were born for this" would imply not only the potential to rule but also the idea that being born royal meant that they had been chosen for their role by a power higher than that of humans. So, again, if there was a similar belief on Asgard - that the norns, for example, appointed Odin's bloodline to be the ruling line, then again, Odin't assertion that Thor and Loki were both born to be kings isn't wrong. They were born with royal blood and, by extension, they had been chosen by a higher power and it was their right to rule. In that sense, it doesn't matter who's older or how the line goes; what matters is that Thor and Loki are both in the line.

So that's how I have always understood it to work - but, again, this is my interpretation and there's not necessarily anything in the canon that supports it unequivocally. That being said, because I interpret it this way, I also never felt that Loki misunderstood what Odin meant when he said both sons were born to be kings. Nor do I feel that Odin was being purposefully misleading. As a royal child, Loki would know and understand how the line works and also how divine right works (assuming they've got a similar belief). To me, I always felt like it was more a matter of wanting to be seen just as worthy as Thor so that, if Loki did end up on the throne, he would get the same respect, admiration, and support as Thor would. In other words, Loki knows ("knows," at this point) that both he and Thor are of royal blood and have the ability and the right to rule, so Loki sitting on the throne shouldn't be any different or "less" than Thor sitting on it. And yet, it was different and it was different for no real reason except that Asgard - including their family and friends - viewed Loki as inherently lesser than Thor due to how different he was from Thor and from what a "man" should be, societally speaking.

If that makes sense?

#it makes sense in my head but idk how well i conveyed it #but yeah i never had any issue with the concept of thor and loki both being 'born to be kings'#to me it's always been loki saying well wait a minute if we're both born to be kings then why does everyone treat thor so much better #and assume he'd be such a better king than i would #when we are both the same?#loki called shenanigans and did everything in his power to fix them #but ymmv #loki meta #loki pokey artichokey #odin's a+ parenting #thor glorious thor #asks #a nonny mouse #charlotte replies #long post

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