#chloe stan salt

[zoe-oneesama]

Chloe had potential for a redemption arch her finding the bee miraculous could've set her on a path where she could have shown more debth a softer side. But they doubled down and i too mourn the loss of potential but chloe as she is in canon doesnt deserve shit

I will concede that the puzzle pieces for a possible Redemption Arc are in the show - abuse mom and over indulgent dad make for a very clear picture of why Chloe is the way she is, and then a huge dynamic shift by introducing super powers into the mix could've been a good starting point for...something. I agree there's potential here.

But what happened in canon wasn't Chloe making changes, it was the people around her changing how they looked at her (as well as the audience). Chloe didn't change herself and the pity she garnered just made her even more entitled when the characters started making more concessions for her, like giving her a Miraculous or throwing her a party or not punishing her for ruining a birthday gift, etc.

I'll agree with people mourning the wasted potential, but I disagree with people who think Chloe's Redemption Arc was active in the show and then ruined, because I don't think it ever started.

[gameguy20100]

Apparently some people agree with Chloe's decision to bully Marinette because she is just the type of ''''''''''weirdo'''''''''' that should be bullied. We've finally found the bullies and they said it themselves.

It's nice when they're honest about being despicable brats.

[western-magical-girl-confessions]

“Tbh...and I know I shouldn't think like this, but I don't really trust people who only watch Miraculous for Chloe anymore. It's usually those people who blame everyone in the show for the way Chloe is when that's not true. Are certain characters really responsible for the way Chloe turned out? Of course! A lot of characters have also done some pretty messed up things just as much (if not more so) than Chloe. But....she isn't innocent either??? Again, people are showing that "Chloe is everybody's responsibility" mindset, which I hate to bits. I do blame others, but Chloe has to realize that she can't go through life being a selfish and cruel prick either. I want better for Chloe, but I want her to get proper development and get proper help/redemption the right way, not have everything get handed to her on a sliver pattern and be coddled to death just for the mere fact that she's been through a lot or that “SHE’S QUEEN!”.”

[dizzying-faust]

It's funny for how much the Queen Bee stans complain about THAT GUY (iykyk) being immature, they sure act immature when someone rightfully criticizes her and them.

Which, considering the character they stan, makes sense...

[ladyofthenoodle]

i realized the other day that i haven’t really talked all that much about the last handful of episodes of season 5 and haven’t really touched on the ending of chloe’s story at all. and i really only see people who are upset about it talk about her last few scenes so i do want to offer an alternative take on it, which is basically: to me, chloe’s story ended in tragedy. i don’t really care what astruc has said on twitter or what was leaked in bibles or scripts. i’m looking at the story we actually got, the one that ended with this moment.

does marinette tell her off right before this? yes. and this should be a moment of victory for marinette, right? she’s finally free from chloe, in every way.

but we don’t see marinette after this. this is the last shot of marinette in the episode before it cuts to chloe’s reaction. marinette’s face is still there, but only as the contact image on chloe’s phone. marinette herself is gone. the rest of the episode only shows us chloe and lila. from here on out, we are not in marinette’s story. we’re in theirs.

and it’s here, when we move out of marinette’s story, that we see chloe’s is tragedy. chloe is the villain in marinette’s story and the victim in her own. this is not just about protagonist centered morality, though that plays a role. it’s about not just whose side the story takes but also what marinette is allowed to know and see. marinette only ever gets the smallest glimpse of chloe’s home life and family, but as the viewers we get to see more. and it is after marinette dismisses her and hangs up in revolution that chloe stops being a part of marinette’s story, and, in that moment, loses the role of the villain. freed from marinette’s story, we see her alone, sobbing, because she’s left with only her own story, where she is the victim.

and it’s notable that chloe tried to reject that story. she chooses marinette’s story, again and again. that’s why she called marinette in the end. chloe would rather play the villain. calling sabrina, asking for comfort, would be accepting that she’s a victim, which chloe isn’t ready for. unfortunately, marinette doesn’t give her a choice: marinette’s story doesn’t have room for chloe anymore. she’s fought her demons and has new ones to face. the only role left for chloe to play in marinette’s story is the girl ladybug couldn’t save.

so yeah, this ending is tragic. and i genuinely hurt for chloe in that moment. but i never once thought we were supposed to see her as unredeemable or celebrate her being sent off to her mother. i don’t know what the story plans to do with chloe next - whether she’s gone for good or she’ll come back worse or come back better. but i know this moment, by taking us out of marinette’s perspective, asked us to sympathize with a girl suffering at the end of her downward spiral.

[jacquesthepigeon]

Idk why it’s so hard for some fans to accept that what they like isn’t a character but rather the altered version of them that lives in their heads and go through lengths to defend their canon versions as if they were the in-their-heads version

Like, Marinette is my fav but as she suffers from Written By A White Man syndrome the version of her that lives in my head is different from canon’s more. um. problematic version. That doesn’t mean I’m gonna go out of my way to defend her canonical actions and bad writing. Yes, I adore her. No, I’m not gonna make excuses for shit like her being invasive and insensitive.

Just recognize that ur fav is shitty in canon and move on instead of wasting everyone’s time with pointless discourse

[motherofplatypus]

Let's be real, Chloe should've been the next Hawkmoth more than Lila, simply because Chloe has more reasons to terrorize the city.

The whole city was against her. Her parents were against her. She lost her privilege. She lost her hero status, and with the temp heroes are all back, it adds salt on her injuries. She hates both protagonists. And she's more than likely has enough savings to get herself supplies of butterflies and a hiding place, or she can just take one of Audrey's credit card.

Meanwhile, Lila's reason is just lame and petty. She hates Marinette and Ladybug (and Chat Noir as extension, but let's be real, who even cares about him at this point? Because the writers surely don't), she has the truth about Gabe that's more than likely only gonna be used in S7 finale, and...that's about it. She has no reason to terrorize the city other than to bring inconvenience for Ladybug. She couldn't care less about Adrien if it's not to hurt Mari. And she's infamous for bending reality to get everything her way no matter how big of a BS that is.

(Yes yes, i know that Lila is smarter and it would makes more sense for her to be the villain, but if her being smart means turning everyone into amoeba brain, then i reject the idea.)

I guess it's worth a shot to make Butterfly!Chloe AU fic.

[blessedfatui]

miraculous spoilers under the cut

so, y’all mean to tell me that felix, the dude who WILLINGLY worked with a terrorist, harassed ladybug, manipulated his “darling” cousin, knows that his uncle is a terrorist, and that his aunt is dead in a basement, can be redeemed because he had two angsty scenes with sentimonsters and his dad is a piece of shit, but lila and chloe are irredeemable monsters who are unlovable, and they are pure evil even though they have the almost exact same writing as felix? feminism my ass

and before some of y’all come in with nathalie, that is ONE female character that was redeemed (and had a shitty redemption). we still have audrey and andre, who the latter gets redeemed even though he ACTIVELY abused and neglected chloe. then we have gabriel, who was an active abuser who can get redeemed, but sure, bring up ONE redeemed female go try and disprove my point that miraculous is actively misogynistic and isn’t the feminist-inclusive show it claims to be.

Adding on because of my tism brain, it’s not even like I’m mad that Chloé isn’t being redeemed. I can live with the villain or whatever they’re trying to go with Chloé and Lila, but it’s just really odd that He Who Shall Not Be Named, will say that characters who do xyz actions cannot be redeemed, but redeems two male characters who have done said actions, while demonizing two female characters.

I could even live with the Felix redemption if his actions weren’t as horrible as they are, but I cannot change have canon. Some one rip this show from my hands before I actually lose my mind (it’s been seven fucking years)

[jennrypan]

Will forever stand by the fact Chloe deserved a lot better.

Obviously her bullying was bad and Marinette doesnt have to forgive her and shouldnt.

But holy shit, how do you show a young girl desperately trying to get her shitty mothers approval, showing she cares for her friends and even asks her mother WHY DONT YOU LOVE ME? and then we have another child who knows nothing about having shitty parents, tell her she needs to act like her shitty mom to be accepted ?? (No salt towards Marinette, but idk why they have her speaking up for abused kids and caring more about them than their fuckin parents)

Suddenly shes just irredeemable?? Even more so than the grown ass terrorist?? Seriously?? And not to mention, shoe horning in her random blank slate sister?? Same name, same age (which means Audrey fucking cheated but..no ones gonna talk about that??)

Its..just so annoying. Zoe is literally just Marinette with extra steps, shes just there to be another nice girl to push Adrien and Marinette further ??

Sabrina is right there?? Like..imagine if she got to have an arc away from Chloe?? CMON.

Just ughhhh.

[gameguy20100]

I suspect that Chloe stans are so enraged by "Derision" episode just EXISTING, because it reminded rest of fandom that their "claims" that "Marinette has happy life [so it's fine that Chloe bullies her]" as just blatant lies

That's always been a blatant lie.

Yeah, Marinette has good parents and a healthy home life. So?

Marinette has multiple other things that make her life unpleasant.

School.

Anxiety.

Responsibility of being ladybug.

Puberty.

The fact being a teenager sucks in general.

Plus, she's an only child. She could easily feel bad about that.

There's other ways to be troubled than being another batman rip off.

[western-magical-girl-confessions]

“Some extreme Chloe stans are SO immature and act like babies at the mere possibility of Chloe getting called out for ANYTHING that she does lol I remember one time that I got chewed out by a Chloe stan for writing an anti-Chloe post that I wrote 3 YEARS AGO, in which my opinion on her NOW has changed. But they didn't want to accept that, so they harassed my page and post until they realized that they couldn't control my opinions and blocked me. It didn't matter that I didn't hate her anymore mind you, because I HAVE to support her no matter what from the get-go, just because of the possibility of upsetting a stan that I would've POSSIBLY met in the future. Lol gtfo. 

It was complete waste of time for the both of us. If they felt the way that they felt, then they should’ve just blocked me in the first place without saying anything, because...people have the right to dislike Chloe. She was handled poorly by the creator I agree, but that doesn't mean that people still can't dislike her. Whether you or anybody thinks that she deserved a good redemption or not, the point still stands that she's a bully character, and there are some anti-Chloe fans who had bad experiences with bullying characters. 

I think it's a little insensitive and close-minded to judge them for disliking Chloe for those reasons just because you like her. It's like people care more about a fictional 14-year-old girl's problems than actual-life people whose suffered the same kind of bullying from people like that. It's really baffling and crazy.”

[dizzying-faust]

As much as I hate Luka stans, at least I can understand why they get defensive of him. Especially with him being hated early on because of shipping, and Luka overall is a chill, nice guy. Doesn't excuse the toxic fans' but I can understand where they're coming from.

I don't get why Chloe stans want to double down and defend Chloe most heinous actions and demonize her victims, especially Marinette. And all for what, because she has a bad mom? Yet will go out of their way to invalidate Marinette's trauma because she doesn't have it as bad as her.

[miraculousnoromance]

okay why the fuck did i see someone’s blog have marinette say to chloe that she’s not a good person and that person reblogged with a version where the roles are reversed

i’m sorry to vague on a sideblog but i am Not Happy that marinette is equivocated with her racist bully (and yes i’ll hold it over the writers’ heads until they give Chinese and Black writers the rights to this show) when that girl bends over backwards and into a fucking pretzel just to make chloe happy

no need tor reblog, i just needed to vent

[angelofthequeers]

chloe stans not understanding the meaning behind "you can't help someone who doesn't want to be helped" and still wanting her to be sympathised is so funny, like chloe "i'll change my ways when hell freezes over" bourgeois really is their role model

SHICKSJXJE yeah like it was valid back in S3 and you could maaaaaaybe even go as far as early S4 (though not likely after throwing a tantrum and willingly working with Hawkmoth)...but she's had everyone and the kitchen sink offer help and at some point, you just gotta let go and accept that you can't force someone to change and it shouldn't be up to you to change someone else. At this point they just gotta accept that she doesn't want help and that's what pushes her past redemption

And that's the thing, Adrien always does apologise when he's in the wrong as much as people love to salt on him for breathing in a way they disapprove of. Although I've had the salt tag blocked so I've been blissfully salt free...but I just know people are gonna spout the same old talking points 😔

I was so shocked at how hard they went on Marinette this episode...like wow I've only dealt with half of what she has and I could barely take that. Marinette is so strong and brave and resilient and she's one of my favourite protagonists of all time 💗