#criticizing the writing for Kataang is one thing but turning around and shipping Zutara while doing so is crazy work

[fromtheseventhhell]

Zutaras are really the original self-insert, "we understand the story soooooo much better than everybody else" girlies and they just never moved on

[mrmallard]

I had a look at the kataang tag for the first time in years thanks to the ATLA revival, and while I'm seeing a lot more harmonious memey content than I remember seeing in the past, I still saw some of the old discourse. As someone who shipped Kataang back in the day, the "kataang is pedophilia" argument is familiar to me - but "zutara is pro-imperialism" is a new one. Back in my fandom days, the discourse in my circles was "zutara is abusive".

I want to dip back into the fandom drama one more time, because to this day I fucking abhor the drama I saw back then and I don't want to see it repeating. For reference - I was a kid when the show first aired, around Aang's age, and I took part in the early fandom. I've been around the block with both ATLA and other fanbases/ships. I first saw the Tumblr discourse in 2013, 5 years after the show ended, and people who were my age and older were harassing younger fans who weren't familiar with the discourse and making mountains out of molehills. This issue is near and dear to my heart, and I want to make a statement for old times sake - to maybe help people avoid the fandom pitfalls I fell into.

This fanbase means so much to me because it's the first fanbase I ever wrote fanfiction for, and I want it to be a positive experience for everyone - not a shit-flinging contest where people are cancelling ships and harassing people based on their personal taste. I had enough of that when I was 12-14, and I had enough of it when I was 18. We've all seen how toxic fandom can get with Sherlock and Voltron - let's try and avoid that.

So here are some personal opinions on shipping:

Your ships are important to you, but they shouldn't outweigh basic civility when interacting with other fans. Not everyone knows the show/fanbase/ship/discourse like you do, not everyone views the show or fandom through the same lens that you do, and some people approach ships critically as an extension of their enjoyment of the show. And that's okay. You shouldn't take it as a personal attack if someone is questioning aspects of your ship, because not everyone shares your viewpoint on it as you do and they're trying to get a better understanding of it.

That doesn't mean "let people be dickheads about something you like" - it just means "civil discourse isn't an attack on you or your interests". If people are just being rude shitheads, then excommunicate them and cultivate your fandom space for your needs. Just understand that other expressions of fandom, including critical discourse - actual thought-out criticism, not barely veiled shit-flinging - aren't trying to attack you or make you feel bad. There are people who will try to attack something and make people feel bad, and the best thing to do in that situation is to mark them down as an agitator, block them and move on.

Violence begets more violence. Calling a Kataang shipper a pedo because Aang is 12 and Katara is 14 only embitters Kataang shippers towards your ship/s, and it will most likely result in those shippers taking issue with what you ship in retaliation. This is not exclusive to Kataang shippers - Zutara shippers will fire back if you call their ship imperialistic or abusive, or any other shippers will defend their ships against negativity. Basically, don't be rude and tear down someone's interests because you don't share them, and then turn around and cry foul when they take issue with what you like. If someone else does this to something you like, rather than striking back and creating a flame war, do your best to omit that person and their rhetoric from your fandom experience - the only thing that happens when fans go on the offense is that a lot of people get worked up and angry, a lot of harsh words are thrown around and everyone gets hurt and burnt out.

If at all possible, look at the fandom as a bigger picture and try to understand why people like the things they do, even if you don't like them. Understanding other people's interests, whether you like them or not, goes a long way towards having a nuanced, harmonious fandom experience. Hardcore Kataang and Zutara shippers don't have to be at each other's fuckin throats all the goddamn time - respect that you both like what you like, and leave each other alone. If one ship isn't your thing, that's okay. Try and understand why your thing might not appeal to someone else. If everyone could try and have a little empathy for each other's ships and headcanons, fandom would be a nicer place for everybody.

Don't be afraid to ship multiple things for different reasons. Back in the day - when I was 12-14 - I shipped Kataang and Taang. Your viewpoint doesn't have to narrow down to one ship. If you do have an OTP that's cool too, but don't let hardcore shippers ruin the whole idea of shipping for you because for them it's their way or the highway. Your interest in fictional pairings isn't like a monogamous relationship - you can express your interest in any aspect of the show in any way you like.

There's no objective way to participate in ATLA fandom. It doesn't fuckin matter if Kataang is canon - if you like Zutara, you like Zutara. That's okay. Want to make bender OCs and write fanfiction? Do it! Don't be afraid of AUs, one of my fondest childhood fanfics was a modern day high school AU - it was the only high school AU I ever liked. No one person or their will defines what the ATLA fanbase can or should do.

If you really dislike something that's big in the fanbase, the onus is on you to cultivate a fandom space that caters to your wants and needs. Again, don't put up with shit-stirrers and assholes trying to make you feel like garbage, but if the thought of a specific, widespread fandom thing like a ship or a headcanon makes you see red or like totally disgusts you, that's something that you need to work out. When you find out what you don't like about something, it's okay to express that - just understand that there will be people who don't share the same viewpoint.

Last, but not least - look out for trolls, creeps and TERFs, and keep them the fuck out. Every large fanbase attracts actual scum. People will use ships to prey on people, i.e. older people looking to creep on younger people through mutual ships, or spread hateful rhetoric to destabilise people they don't like - and as a community you need to put the shipping war bullshit aside and work for the betterment of the fandom as a whole. Like if a teenager is preyed upon by someone in the fanbase, and an adult takes joy in that because they shipped something the adult disagreed with, then that adult is a fucking monster. Understand that the fandom is bigger than just you, and work to make it a safe and enjoyable space for everyone.

My feelings on fandom can be summed up as such: fandom is meant to be a positive environment to build yourself up and enjoy something even more than just enjoying the canon stuff. Fandom as a whole, and shipping in particular, should not make you feel attacked or miserable - and no-one should feel driven to attack other people over something so petty as a personal opinion on a fictional pairing. Shipping should be an expression of positive feelings, not a means to harass and hurt other people.

Instead of building up reasons to attack other people and lord yourselves over them as the objectively correct choice, cultivate a space where you can explore fandom within your own parameters. And over time, actually take a second to think about why other people like things that you hate, and see if you can understand their opinion and respect it without necessarily having to like it yourself. We're all in this together, even people who like things that you don't, and if you can find a way to respect that... well, fandom will be a better place to be for everyone, including you.

Don't let negativity take hold and ruin the whole thing, for you or for others. Fandom can be whatever you want it to be, but it's also a community for everyone to enjoy. The sooner you can operate within that bigger picture, the better it'll be for yourself and everyone else.

[megashadowdragon]

 its really annoying when there are ship wars between a same sex ship and straight ship for there will be people who ship the same sex ship who will claim the people who ship the straight ship over the same sex ship and respond to their claims of evidence by saying that is not romantic  etc are homophobic which makes a joke of actual homophobia by reducing it to  be about shipping and act like not shipping the same sex ship must be due to homophobia rather then there not being romantic buildup/ their liking the way  the characters ( in the straight ship ) interact more  etc ( not to mention screeching queerbaiting if their gay ship doesnt become canon even if they never baited you

to use examples from fandoms

not to mention how in alot of ships people find evidence where there is none they reach but with the same sex ships I have seen people claim that someone would see it if it was a het couple (a baseless claim to imply bias etc and homophobia   rather then say something like you would see it if it was your ship)

or respond to someone who is anti their ship by going you are straight arent you as if there being lgbt people who are against the ship and favor the straight one over it like say makorra > korrasami or blacksun> bb

are all straight which is just not true and is a bad generalization the notion that if you are lgbt you will ship the same sex ship over the straight one is ridiculous.

also there are people who act like a same sex ship is above criticism like with korrasami ship where people criticized it  saying it was forced had no buildup I have seen  idiotic members of that shipping community claim homophobia or act like the only reason they shipp makorra over korrasami( felt it should be canon over korrasami) is that it was a het ship which is frankly insulting bs

I have seen some idiot go there are plenty of shows where het ships become canon  ( if all you are concerned is about the genders involved  which is the vibe that people who throw this  argument give they have problems if something is badly written it should be criticized a ship being same sex doesnt make it exempt from critcism  ) when the concern isnt that a same sex ship became canon over a het ship its in the writing  how makorra had more development  and that the same sex ship had no buildup etc good writing is more important then representation for a badly written ship wont leave a good taste in rewatching the series

these arguments could be turned around on them imagine if someone went oh so there werent any gay ships that become canon well there will always be another show

or claim you would ship their ship if one of the characters were gender swapped

imagine if some ship writers suddenly out of nowhere made a straight ship canon and throwing out the buildup  for same sex ship that was built up since beginning it would be bad writing

if a ship was thrown in at the last minute and with no prior buildup people will criticize and comment on it  especially if there was a ship that had actual buildup but they ignored it. people complaining about ships not becoming canon and criticizing the ship that became canon has even occurred when the two ships involved were both straight like kataang vs zutara or ichiruki vs ichihime. at some points  the criticism it comes just to bad writing and not having the proper buildup and throwing away the ship that had buildup away  (representation isnt a good enough argument as to why it was a good idea to make a ship canon the buildup with korrasami it feels like they made korrasami canon at the last minute just for the sake of having a same sex ship for they talked about worrying about not representing the lgbt community and admitted they only asked if they could do it at the  last minute so it feels like a last minute type deal  (korrasami )    at other points criticism just comes from the persons perspective on certain things done etc

the fact that there are alot of shows where a straight ship becomes canon and not the gay ship is irrelevant the genders involved are irrelevant its the writing and buildup of a ship that is important  so going  there arent that many shows wherea same sex ship becomes canon does nothing to change the bad writing

they should want good writing behind the ships and not just have someone force it in

“calling someone homophobic just because they don't like a ship is not only very presumptuous, but also entirely unfair“

it makes a joke of the term homophobia

and they have shown to use the smear homophobe for anyone who doesnt ship  their ship even if they ship some other same sex ship.

and I am sick of people going lines you would ship it if  it was a het ship or claiming that you would see it as evidence if it was a het ship which is baseless (and could be turned around on them 

eight-of-pentacles . tumblr . com/post/633323632889905152/they-cant-use-too-many-straights-not-enough

as eight-of-pentacles said 

“I’m also sick of the “too many straights not enough lgbt+” complaint, because it turns us into a quota to be met. Unless a show has “x” amount of lgbt+ pairings, its considered bad. It forces writers to put in lgbt+ rep, not because that’s where the story naturally progresses, but because anything less would be unacceptable to the audience. It turns us into a percentage, a statistic, rather than an important part of the narrative. And even then, even once the lgbt+ pairing(s) of choice has/have been added, they’re analyzed under a microscope. If even one thing is off with the presentation, it’s suddenly bad rep, the writers are blasted for not understanding lgbt+ issues, and shouldn’t have added it at all (Shiro/Adam in Voltron being a relatively recent example in mainstream fandom). Or, on the other side of the coin, actual bad rep is accepted and lauded because it meets a fandom’s astronomically low standards of simply seeing the characters get together on-screen. Thus continuing to perpetuate a system where mediocre (at best) lgbt+ content is held as the standard of quality. As you pointed out, it is insulting to lgbt+ content which has been well done, and been overlooked because of this trend.I haven’t even touched on the issue of “straight vs. lgbt+” yet, because there’s a whole separate issue to go along with this: the characters could very well be bi, and be in a m/f relationship. I’ve said this many times before: as a bi woman, I often get the distinct impression in fandom spaces that bisexuality (and bi women especially) are considered not as lgbt+ as others. We’re often talked about in a way that sounds like we are second-best. “At least make this character bi…” “I’ll accept this character being bi…” and so on. And even once that hurdle is jumped and a character is considered to be bi, their only acceptable pairings are mlm/wlw pairings. It’s transparent as hell, and it sends a message: bisexuality is only worth a damn in fandom when we can be used to make a character non-straight, and furthermore, when those characters are in non m/f pairings. I”

eight-of-pentacles . tumblr . com/post/627625447764656128/i-have-seen-people-respond-in-the-discourse

I have seen people respond in the discourse involving blacksun vs bb there are tons of het pairings why cant we have this one / there are tons of shows where a straight couple becomes canon go watch one of those

My feeling is that people hide behind that as an excuse to not provide valid evidence for their pairing. “Why can’t we have this one thing” has become an acceptable defense, one I disagree with for multiple reasons.

There is no point in whining about being deprived of a pairing in a show when, at this point in history, we are able to access more LGBT+ characters and plots than ever before. “Why can’t we have this one thing” is not a defense or a valid argument.

And most importantly, I find it fucking ridiculous that the main “criticism” of bs is that it’s heteronormative when one of the most popular headcanons in this fandom is that Blake (and sometimes Sun) is bi. It could not be more clear that there is an agenda at play; when people are so quick to claim one or both of them as non-straight to put them in a wlw or mlm (thus more acceptable) pairing, but will also immediately demonize bs for being m/f. There is an implicit statement there, regardless of if people realize it: bisexuality only matters when the person is in a non m/f relationship.

It’s disgusting. And because of that (and other reasons), I cannot take the “why can’t we have this one thing” complaint seriously. Not when anything that is given or shown will ever be good enough, unless people get their “one thing”. And it’s a poorly-veiled masquerade. Representation isn’t what matters, in that argument. Getting a canon pairing does.

eight-of-pentacles . tumblr . com/post/625068959339806720/ii-have-seen-bb-shippers-make-the-argument

In my opinion, it gets back to the argument that we often hear: “why can’t you let us have this one thing?”

Which is misleading. “This one thing” has become far more prevalent and accessable than ever before. And while I don’t want to claim I’m against non-straight pairings (obviously I’m not), it’s a lazy way for people to deflect criticism.

And if someone is basing the quality of the ship on the genders of the characters, that’s an incredibly shallow opinion.

a same sex ship should not be immune to criticism criticizing a same sex ship doesnt make you a homophobe.

its especially annoying when people try to go there are tons of shows where a straight pairing is canon go watch one of those as if the people who ship the straight ship only ship the ship because its a het ship which is insulting and dismissive and assumptive    ( and implys they only ship the same sex ship because its same sex that they are the ones who are focused on the genders involved in the ship) ( not to mention assuming that all of the people who ship the het ship like wsay makorra or blacksun over korrasami and bb must be straight ignoring the lgbt members who ship thehet ship over  the same sex ship  being lgbt doesnt  automatically mean you will ship the same sex ship  just like being straight doesnt mean you will automatically ship the het ship

I remember someone going if you dont ship bb  for example you are homophobic or claiming that if you say there was no buildup you are homophobic which makes a joke out of actual homophobia its just calling people homophobic over things which arent that word criticizing bbb and saying tht there is no buildup or responding to people who are trying to claim something is evidence for bb ship like the v3 finale   and saying its not isnt homophobia

its  just disagreement 

to be frank as I said before ( I am not going to hide my position on things bb shippers wearing shipping goggles to find evidence or buildup where there is none and claiming homophobia if someone says its not can get

not to mention there is people who try to pull the you would see it if yang was a man (or you would ship it if yang was male ) ( and this person previously used the representation argument for why bb should become canon  or implications that the genders involved is why that person ships bb over blacksun I could easily turn it around on them and say if yang was male you wouldnt have shipped bb in fact if sun was a woman you would ship it 

@lewdnepvasilias666​