#daemyra choking

[lanaisdoe]

So this Throat thing CONFUSION ... ? The "i wanna choke you but also low-key kiss and eat and have you" kinda execution of this scene? wtf

^ let me just say when we were told there was choking, i was imagining it in a real "i wanna kill you" kinda way - UNTIL I actually SAW IT. . . and i'm more confused than before.

So we got THIS and uhm...... I mean, you DO NOT look exactly like this, if you ACTUALLY seriously wanna choke someone (also, he's only holding her throat/jaw with ONE hand, btw, the other one holding her close to him by her arm). You do not almost touch her forehead with yours in an intimate manner while trying to actually "choke her" at the same time, holding her close to you with your lips almost touching...

This scene CONFUSES the shit out of me, cuz if they wanted to make it him actually wanting to choke her, they failed big time, okay?! - i mean, not sure what Hess's direction was or what Matt Smith wanted to show there (or was it him trying to soften Hess's direction?!) but this looks more like Daemon kinda wants to devour/kiss/crush/or have her on the table near there or ALL of it at the same time ? like her wants to shake her until she remembers, WHO she is, who he is, and who THEY are,...

like... his lips are so close to hers, it's giving a weird confusing message: choking or kissing, loving or hating. (or it was just horribly directed/acted out, with actors/direction having different opinion on what it should be and this turned to be the compromise...?)

Y know this CHOKING scene is like a weird slightly more messed up version of THIS actually:

and then Daemon pushing her off him is kinda similar to him pushing her off him kinda violently back in the brothel when he was frustrated with himself and their overall situation (STILL, with him then proceeding to plead Viserys to let him marry Rhaenyra and repeating that if he could have anything, he wanted Rhaenyra, to take to wife, wed her in the tradition of their house etc. Right after he had violently pushed her off him and left her alone in brothel. (Doesn't remind you of this scene a bit, anyone?)

Again, we have kinda the same thing in ep 1x10 ... there was this kinda choking BS, Daemon frustrated with EVERYTHING, there's frustration and hurt that he was not trusted, not told of the prophecy, then it was probably him thinking Rhaenyra was further endangering them, their family, by refusing to act since he was super convinced of the inevitability of war and the greens wanting their necks (which Rhaenys had actually warned them was the case right at the beginning), and there was his helplessness and fear and frustration and inability to act and he was once again left out of an important family thing and he was like a lion in a cage and yeah well.... we got what we got but PLEASE, i don't think you can say he wanted to hurt her. Cuz if he did, then he also wanted to hurt her at the wedding in ep5 or in the brothel in ep4 which we know was not the case.... still, Daemon is unhinged when hurting and helpless.

Still, the next scene we get with them is our devastated loyal loving supporting husband Daemon coming to inform his love of his life wife of what'd happened... and she knows just by looking at him ONCE.

And there they are, standing TOGETHER, holding hands, by each other's side as they always have. So no guys? they DID NOT magically stop loving each other after one fight. Rhaenyra had witnessed several of the unhinged Daemon excesses so it was not much of a surprise to her... Also, as Viserys once said "Daemon, Rhaenyra, they share the blood of the dragon, they're restless, chaotic..."

So i do not think Daemon magically became an "abuser"... i think these have been his extreme impulses in his most critical on a verge kinda moments all throughout s1. But never once did he actually want to hurt her, mind you.

Still, 1x10 being his absolute most critical moment after all their losses + death all around them + greens after them, the fear of their end/downfall nearing, Rhaenyra reluctant to act, him depending on her word, further realizing his own helplessness... and yeah, we got THAT:

...still, i think they SHOULD HAVE MADE THAT SCENE a little less menacing, change the MUSIC-make it less creepy, and also make Daemon's pain a little more visible afterwards/during it, make him breakdown right there in front of her right after.... for example...... to make it all CLEAR.

But no . This had him look like a violent without reason bipolar madman. I really think Matt did all he could to soften it the way he knew Daemon would... cuz Matt Smith actually understands Daemon, unlike certain Sara Hess.

I still do hate this scene, it's definitely the strangest scene of 1x10 hands down, cuz it's confusing the shit out of me: the need for this scene to be included like this, as well as its general confusing unclear execution.

And I BLAME Sara Hess. Period.

[marysblo0d]

Every time I see a Daemyra stan posting about how the portrayal of Daemon is unfair because he’s supposed to be the best husband in the world:

[horreurscopes]

watching death note and house of the dragon simultaneously earlier this year did something permanent to my galaxy brain

[sihtryggr]

@ hotd show runners

[theroguequeen]

this man didn't sleep for days not knowing if his wife is safe

lol pls, she's probably safer out there with her dragon than at home with the man who choked her in a fit of rage

Ah yes, of course, let's base the entire relationship between two people on a poorly written scene and consciously ignore all the other small and big moments and the obvious love between the two.

[sukibenders]

Something that still doesn't sit right with me while being a part of the HOTD fandom is how Laena was done so dirty, from being placed as a "second" option for Daemon and having him keep her from returning home, from having her daughters see Driftmark, from seeing her own brother and parents before she died! That added on to the fact of how Daemon just sucked at loving her the way she deserved makes my blood boil. And to make matters worse, to drive the knife further, is during her funeral (added on to him laughing during it, which wasn't appropriate at all no matter the context or what anyone says) where she and her unborn son were only just recently placed at the bottom of the sea, Daemon and Rhaenyra sleep together and then marry each other all within the span of the same episode (don't even get me started on how they went heavy into the romantics of the moment but couldn't even bother to show Daemon be affection with Laena like he was in the books I believe).

And some in the fandom reaction to all this can be such a turn off. Because you can have people, mainly black fans, rightfully call out problems with this plot change, with Rhaenyra and Daemon sleeping together only right after Laena's funeral and will be met with so many heinous responses (a lot in which tie in with centering Rhaenyra and going "oh so you hate her" type beat) and it's so frustrating. That, and how we barely see Daemon interact with his daughters, let alone be affectionate as well as protective over them---that scene where the girls are bruised from a fight and clear in distress and yet Daemon doesn't even move to check on them nor go into a rage at the fact that his daughters were harmed, let alone the fact that his now dead wife's dragon was claimed by another on the day of her funeral. None of that. But will stand protectively by Rhaenyra and her sons' side without second thought. Make it make sense.

[martelldragon]

GAWD wtf

[lemonhemlock]

I also love how Emma called out the pseudo cult of personality that people have for toxic problematic male characters like Daemon, “Within cinema, there is a long history of creating love interests out of problematic – particularly male – characters,” says D’Arcy. “What’s interesting in House of the Dragon is that it utilises that same trope. You know, like audiences have responded to Matt playing Daemon as this ‘very sexy, masculine love interest’, but simultaneously, I hope that the show is continually acknowledging the problematic nature of it all.” It reminded me of how Daemyra fangirls were losing their minds over the choking scene and having the AUDACITY to claim that it was "out of character" and "bad writing". How when the whole entirety of the show has shown us how violent, abusive, and toxic Daemon is even towards his own family?! Yes, he loves them and will ride and die for them, but he will also hurt them both physically and emotionally as we've seen multiple times throughout the show. Multiple things can be true at the same time! He'll kill anybody who insults and hurts his family, but he'll also insult and hurt his family because it benefits him in some way, shape, or form. It also reminds me of how sexist the fanbase is in that they'll crucify Alicent who hasn't done half of the deplorable shit that Daemon (an abusive murdering groomer) has done, but like Emma said, they'll create a "malewife simping" love interest out of Daemon because he's hot. And then they'll the excuse of Daemon keeps it "real" which is why they like him more than Alicent who is "self-righteous" and "phony". WHAT?! First of all, even if Daemon keeps it "real" and is always 💯 it still doesn't take the fact that he's worse than Alicent. Second of all, how exactly does Daemon keep it real? He's an overgrown manchild that grooms little girls in order to overcompensate for the fact that he will never be good enough for his brother. But sure Alicent is the worse.

Emma was so right to point that out. Fangirling over bad boy characters like Daemon is normal, but when you're stubbornly misreading all the red light signs pointing towards him being a villain .... it delves into other issues. Lack of media literacy, willful blindness, (internalized) misogyny? in the sense that people are willing to accept and forgive problematic behaviours in dashing-dark-prince characters, but categorically do not extend the same kind of grace to female characters like Alicent. It's sad because no one is forbidding fans to like Daemon, but they don't have to champion him at the expense of other characters either.

He's an overgrown manchild that grooms little girls in order to overcompensate for the fact that he will never be good enough for his brother.

Bulls-eye. Hit him straight with the headshot.

Thank you for your poignant comments. I'm delighted to share this analysis with anyone happening upon my blog!

[dragonseeds]

after thinking so much about how rhaenyra idealizes daemon as a male version of herself, about her jealousy of the freedom with which he moves through the world while she is caged, about all the years she spent feeling like to be a woman was a death sentence (but he can shed an enemy’s blood in a fight while she has to bleed and bleed), how lost she felt without him (not knowing he felt the same) and how she thought she needed him to strengthen her claim—after all that, it was both satisfying and horrific to witness the moment that jealousy turned over. the moment daemon realized viserys never truly considered him his heir, never took him seriously. it was always rhaenyra. now they both know it.

[bohemian-nights]

Lol I wonder how Daemyra stans are gonna cope now that Daemon has chocked out the love of his life 😂

[destiniesfic]

Do you think there’s love between Daemon and Rhaenyra? I keep seeing people saying Daemon is incapable of experiencing emotions but I’m not really sure that’s true lol

... What evidence is there to suggest Daemon is incapable of experiencing emotions? Lmao? He seems to experience extremely strong emotions that he doesn't express well, and when he does express them it's often in a way that we think of as very typically masculine (by which I mean shouting and hitting stuff). It's not subtle.

Case in point: what immediately follows after this GIF.

This is not a cool brooding sociopath man, this is a man who runs incredibly hot at least 85% of the time. To believe otherwise is to read a lot of his anger as a product of ambition instead of hurt, and to do that you have to take Otto Hightower at his word when he says "The gods have yet to make a man who lacks the patience for absolute power." (And you shouldn't take Otto at his word when he says that, because he's talking about a different second son: himself.)

Anyway, I touched a little bit on the question of whether Daemon loves Rhaenyra in this other meta. Approaching it from a different direction, we're meant to take from his behavior in episode 8 that he loves her very much, but we are meant to take from his behavior in episode 10 that love doesn't blunt Daemon's sharp edges or render him safe. I'm not only talking about the choking scene, but about the way he immediately shifts into attack dog mode and therefore ignores what emotional needs or actual desires his wife may have.

But—just to head some questions off at the pass–although I say "love" I don't mean it's a modern-day romantic ideal: we're starting with the foundation of an incestuous marriage, after all! Still, even before they marry it's easy to see that Daemon adores her, that he likes to spend time with her, and that he desires her. He holds some kind of regard or respect for her which prevented him from deflowering her in that brothel, more than just her being into it. And all of those ingredients add up to something.

Daemon's family is the star around which his planet orbits, providing the gravity that dictates his behavior. Initially the biggest and brightest of these stars was Viserys, and now it's Rhaenyra. She is the center of his universe. Someday that star will go supernova and become a black hole which will devour them both, but if that's not some kind of love, destructive and all-consuming, then, I guess, what is?

Edit: I spent so much time talking about Daemon because of the question about his emotions that I forgot to add that Rhaenyra loves him too, as family and an ally and a lover all at once. Okay bye.

[daemyrademons]

super love how this is gonna be used to bully and belittle (primarily women) who enjoyed seeing a fucked up little romance between two powerful dragon lords. because women don’t “enjoy media properly” and because this show isn’t directly aimed at women, we are seen as “not real fans” and thus our disappointment “doesn’t count”

[yoyo-inspace]

something something Corlys and Rhaenys paralleling Daemon and Rhaenyra (though as a much ‘healthier’ version if you will) in couples dealing with grief. Avoidance, anger, leaving someone else alone, putting yourself first, lashing out. All of it. And yet coming together at the end with a shared goal.

[what-do-1000-swords-look-like]

I just read a few odd justification posts about why it was okay that Daemon ignored Rhaenyra calling out for him when she was in labor, and even more appallingly why it was okay for Daemon to choke Rhaenyra the way he did, one even going so far as to say he didn't mean to hurt her but to "bring her to her senses". That if he really wanted to hurt her then he would have crushed her windpipe.

While I appreciate these people's attempts to look at the situation objectively and investigate/analyze Daemon's motives as well as Rhaenyra's, as well as delve deeper into their characters...how can his actions be justified?

Why? Because he's played by a very talented and attractive actor? Because this is the common coddling of a Targaryen villain a la Daenerys style? I truly don't understand why this justification is done when grooming, greed for power, and now abuse are right in your face. But okay, I'll jump on that hot mess of a train for a second.

Let's start with what the showrunners have actually said regarding Daemon and Rhaenyra's relationship before they were married.

Anyone remember this scene?

Not only did it feel like a massive grooming scene to me but the showrunners confirmed it was! Daemon led Rhaenyra down there not only because he was trying to show her that sex was a pleasurable act which she could enjoy on the side when doing her duty/marrying, but also because he was trying to get her under his control. The showrunners literally say that Daemon left her the way he did because she was enjoying it and that turned him off.

Sound like the hero of the hour to you? A true prince? An all around good guy? You don't need to bring your personal experiences to the table to know that this is not only icky but not a good start between them or earmarks of a forming healthy relationship. It also becomes very apparent here that Rhaenyra is far more into Daemon (and is mystified by him and what she's feeling) than he is into her. He views her as a tool, as a key to the IT and also to piss off/get back at Viserys.

Now, delving deeper into the story, let's also look at this objectively:

Rhaenyra is now the proclaimed heir to the IT. While it might seem all romantic to some that Daemon is sneaking her out of the Red Keep, let's focus on the really important points. Rhaenyra is not only at risk but she also has a reputation to maintain. It sucks but it's true. In that world, as we see play out later in the episode, she does.

Then we see how the people in KL really feel about her being named heir, and we see this almost comedic moment where Rhaenyra reacts to what she's hearing. The point being: the people in KL's streets do not like her or support her. This increases the danger she's in should anyone recognize her (which is exactly why her hair is hidden at first when they sneak out). And even if Daemon jumps in to protect her, he is one man against a city of people (and let's not forget that Caraxes and Syrax are not as big as Drogon or Vhagar & is most likely in the dragonpit). We saw how easily Rhaenys got swept away from Erryk in the crowds in 1x09.

Knowing this, Daemon still decides to not only take Rhaenyra out but to push forward. Then they end up at the brothel: Daemon's target destination all along. And sure enough, we see him put his plan into action.

But to his dismay, Rhaenyra seems to be enjoying herself more than she is shocked or frightened or appalled. And then he does the unthinkable: he leaves her! All alone, defenseless, with no weapon to defend herself or with anyone capable of defending her should someone attempt to hurt her, take her hostage, or force themselves on her.

She is the proclaimed heir to the King on the IT, to be the next ruler of the Seven Kingdoms, and he just leaves her. Because she was enjoying what he was showing her. Because she was too into it. And he not only leaves her, but then goes and gets drunk. He doesn't give a flying fig about Rhaenyra's safety or wellbeing in that moment. Great guy, yes? Uncle of the year.

Then we see this scene:

Daemon's true motive comes to light completely here. He wanted to sully Rhaenyra's reputation, so she would be forced to marry. But he was betting that Viserys would be so desperate to marry her off that he would marry her to him. He used to be the heir to the IT; now she is. The math isn't that hard to do. If he marries Rhaenyra, he will be that much closer to the IT, in a different way coming from a different angle (King Consort and we already know he had no problem killing one wife), but once Viserys dies, Rhaenyra will be the only one standing between Daemon and the IT. Daemon's ambition, his goal is the IT and ensuring House Targaryen not only remains in power but that they are the most powerful family of all, if not in Westeros then the world. His idea of their house is very similar to Daenerys. (and we all know how that went) He even says as much. He wants to marry Rhaenyra and they can restore House Targaryen to its former glory. In laymen's terms, he is tired of the peace keeping and "working together"; he wants to dominate and he wants the Targaryens to be the top dog even more than they are now.

Even Viserys knows this: "Of course, it's not my daughter you lust for, is it? It's my throne."

But, as we know, Viserys doesn't give him what he wants and Rhaenyra is made to marry someone else. That doesn't stop him from wanting that goal to happen, though.

So even though it's Rhaenyra that convinces him to come back to the fold and to marry, that goal has never truly gone away. The showrunners have said that he was happy to be away from the Westerosi politics when married to Laena and he was across the sea. (this is what makes for a truly dynamic, rich, and multi-layered character a la GRRM style but it doesn't justify abuse, for starters) But then he was back in it. Don't think for one second that he didn't have that goal in mind when agreeing to marry Rhaenyra and they married in the old way.

Am I saying that Daemon is a villain through and through? No, I"m not. Like I said above, he is a multi-faceted and very grey character, which imho is what makes his story so compelling for people to watch, besides Matt Smith's incredible portrayal and charisma on screen. But let's not bury his actions (and motives) under the rug because he's good looking or is half of your preferred ship in the show or carries the name Targaryen.

That being said, choking someone is never okay. That's not bringing personal experiences to the table or viewing any media through that lens, it's facts. For example, how common was it back in the old days of media, in classic films and such, to see a woman get slapped by a man? Or how about Ralph Kramden's constant threat towards Alice? People viewing those pieces of media back then thought it commonplace (and in Ralph's case laughable) because back then, no matter how horrible the truth of it is, it was commonplace. Today's society knows better and yes, while we're watching a fictional show based on medieval times and we are well aware of it, that doesn't change the fact that we know this action to be wrong. Just like Daenerys massacring King's Landing. No matter where you fall on that line, that is a war crime (not something to be excited to watch or something to celebrate btw); it's wrong. Had Daenerys been real and done that in this world, no one would think it's cool and justified. How do you justify burning innocent children alive?

We can enjoy pieces of media that are fictional. We can root for our favorite characters. You are certainly entitled to your opinions. But you negate that when you say that you feel people are "overreacting" to not being on board with Daemon putting his hand on Rhaenyra's throat and applying pressure, to the point where she is struggling to breathe. That wasn't some kinky form of foreplay. She never consented to him taking that action. That's a form of violence against this supposed love of his life, that has already been confirmed in the show (through the dialogue and sequences shown) and by the showrunners did not start as this great big love story, this true romance.

For example, if Jon ever did to Dany what Daemon did to Rhaenyra, y'all would've been calling for his head. Hell, look at the reaction to what Jon ended up deciding to do in 8x06. And that's completely hypocritical of you. The goal posts don't move when it comes to abuse and violence against women by men. The rules don't change.

So I think people calling it for what it is are not overreacting and are actually seeing what is wrong with the Daemrya relationship (as the show intended), how ambitious Daemon is (similar to Dany in that they they have this grand delusion of what it means to be a Targaryen in relation to power vs the world around them), and how this will negatively affect things going forward. There is a definite power struggle there, and Daemon didn't only get frustrated by Rhaenyra's decision to stay her hand; he got frustrated because he wasn't the one in charge aka the heir aka the one sitting on the IT which is why we got the Daemon and Jacaerys scene which led to the "true loyalty" scene. It not only gave us more insight into Daemon's character moving forward, but it also showed us that he has a very different idea on how he wants to rule vs Rhaenyra. (and now with what happened to Luc, we'll see if her ruling style will now closely resemble his or if she'll let him unleash on the Hightowers) Before Luc's death, Daemon was all war and Rhaenyra was peace.

Regardless of how Rhaenyra is from this point on, it doesn't take away from the fact of what happened in that room on Dragonstone between her and Daemon. That scene shouldn't be justified or explained away. It was wrong, plain and simple. The show is not dancing around it. They showed it to you point blank, with both Matt's and Emma's performances. They don't need to "address it" because it is what it is: a scene where Daemon starts to show his true colors. Do I think that Daemon doesn't love his family? No. I think he does love them (which has also been shown to us throughout the season), but that love is twisted by his own ambition and delusions of grandeur. Which is even more interesting considering his line of "Dreams didn't make us kings; dragons did." And he's right, but as much as he criticizes Viserys for having dreams, he has his own. It just isn't the same.

I almost wonder how a meeting between Daemon and Daenerys would go, if that were even possible due to some time warp or something. I know that's not this type of story but for a moment, I like to imagine what it would be like. I feel like they would definitely have some things in common for sure. And then it would be Dance of Dragons 3.0 because neither would give up the IT to the other, especially Dany.

But, I digress. My point is: while you're entitled to your opinion and you can certainly have different viewpoints, it's a slippery slope to justify an act of abuse, fictional or not. Don't do that. Ship who you ship, enjoy the characters you enjoy, but don't do that. And certainly don't say others are overreacting (who disagree with your viewpoint) in the same breath you're saying that your opinions need to be respected.

It doesn't matter why he grabbed her that way (he did it not only to get his point across to her in that tyrannic way but also because he was pissed that Viserys told her something he never told Daemon when he was the heir which is what Rhaenyra also picks up on & Daemon's reaction cements it).

Daemon was wrong.

End of story.

[theroguequeen]

- the episode was not it, but I'm not ready to let them go, so here are some thoughts. But I wanna make clear that I do absolutely not support daemons behavior this episode -

Daemon loves rhaenyra. He loves her more then he ever loved anyone else. And I want to point that out again, no matter what happened in episode 10.

He saw her growing up. He saw her falling in love with the world, while having the burden of being a female heir on her small shoulders. He teached her high valyrian, they started having little conversations, only for their ears.

He gifted her the necklace and she wore it for years, touching it for conformt.

We saw them both covered in blood, having the restless and burning blood of the dragon.

We saw daemon yearning for her, we saw him getting overwhelmed with his feelings when they had their first kiss, when he tasted her and what they maybe could become. He got scared but still asked viserys for her hand, making clear that he wants her and only her.

We saw him losing it at her wedding ceremony, grabbing her face, going insane because he knew there was not really something he could do about it, that he had to let her go.

He spend years with laena trying to erase the memory of rhaenyra, being hunted by the thoughts about her, knowing she now has kids, that she has grown up, is a mother now but still out of his reach.

When they finally reunited, she told him that she needs him, that she really wants him at her side, that she still feels the same for him, maybe even more now as it now is not only desire or crushing but really feeling this deep connection and love.

They married in the tradition of their house, they had their boys, even naming one after his brother and her father viserys, honoring him.

He was desperate for her touch, holding her hand all the time, seeking comfort in having her near.

And he killed vaemond for calling her a whore, without hesitation, wanting his blood and making clear that he will not let anyone talk that way about her.

He heared her calling for him while giving birth, heard her scream his name. And maybe he just froze, having laena in his mind, how things ended the last time he heard a women scream that way.

And this time is his love. His soulmate. But he tries to do what he can, prepare everything for her but it's not what she needs. "I need you"

He kneels before her. He goes down for her. He has that crown in his hands, but he puts it on her head.

My rhaenyra. My Queen.

He is grieving. Grieving for viserys. Grieving for his lost child, another one.

But he still thinks he has to function. To do what needs to be done, at least what he things needs to be done. He shuts down his feelings, building up a wall.

And then there is this feeling of betrayal. A feeling he knows. Viserys and rhaenyra not telling him about the prophecy. Maybe making him feel like he was not worth knowing it, that they didn't trust him enough.

And then there is the rage. The anger. The pain. He loses himself, loses the connection to her. And in a way I think he tried to make up for it by going to vermithor.

- Once again, I do not support this behavior and for me personally this was absolutely devasting and felt just out of character but this scene does not disappear so. -

And we see him smile when rhaenyra comes to the bridge on syrax back, remembering the last time that happened and this time she is his wife, his queen, mother to his children, on his side, against otto. He reacts to her, he stopps when she tell him to.

And when he hears about luke he comes for her. Taking her hand, knowing that he is about to rip her heart out but that she needs to know. Now.

[ninacarstairss]

so that daemyra scene is actually underwhelming after everything i read. it just makes no sense.

i’ve been reading for the whole day about people now hating daemon for it, when it literally makes no sense. daemon had so many chances to hurt her, to kill her and take the inheritance he wanted. he has literally proven so many times that he wanted her, not the crown. and now, out of the blue, he chokes her because she wants to bend the knee and keep the peace? dude this isn’t daemon. it’s so out of character it didn’t even feel real. daemon is so far from being a saint of course, but damn that wasn’t him.