#dccu negative

[earlgraytay]

ellieintheskywithdiamonds replied to your post “chanmanthe2nd replied to your post “I just remembered Batman v....”

i'm not the person in question but since you're offering this to random strangers i feel it's ok to ask what made you have this interpretation. i don't really remember anything in BvS being about seeking knowledge at all.

@ellieintheskywithdiamonds ... I phrased that the way I did partly to see if broski was remotely willing or able to argue in good faith (I assume lolno) and partly because I’m vaguely curious as to what counterargument a Snyder stan could give me here. But I’m more than happy to share, since it’s been on my mind. 

 Note that I haven’t seen BVS since it came out and as the movie progressed a thin red haze slowly obscured my vision. My memory of certain things may be... fuzzy.   

There’s a scene in the second act of BvS where Lex Luthor is in the bowels of Zod’s crashed Kryptonian ship.  The ship is flooded to mid-calf and lit by a dull red light; it looks like the belly of a whale.  He’s finally woken the ship up after it’s slumbered for a year. The computer comes on and asks him, “what do you want to know?” 

The music swells and grows ominous. Lex is kneeling in the water. He looks up. He’s portrayed with a flat affect, but there are fucking Steven Universe stars in his eyes. He looks at the ship’s computer, and he whispers, “I want to know everything.” 

this scene is framed as a Big Damn Villain Moment, but it would be very easy- particularly with the rebirth/baptism symbolism there- to recast it as the origin story of a Prometheus figure or a Lucifer figure. a hero stealing fire from the gods to give to mankind; an angel falling in pursuit of forbidden knowledge.* 

when you look at the rest of the movie in light of that scene, with the idea that the greatest evil someone can want to commit is wanting to know everything- you start to see a pattern. I don’t know if it’s intentional or not- it could just be the result of lazy plotting and poorly-developed characters- but it’s there.

The more ‘villainous’ characters- Lex and Batman, to be precise- repeatedly seek after knowledge and question authority. 

One of the first scenes with Lex in it- not the scene in which he’s introduced to the audience, but it’s very early in- has him introduced to the public as a ‘bibliophile’ and a ‘lover of libraries’ as he’s giving a shit-ton of money to said library. There are plenty of ways that you could introduce Lex’s public, “philanthropic” face- giving to an orphanage, say, or a Generic Research Lab, or a scholarship for Science Nerds. But the writers of BVS specifically chose a library. A cause that, in the real world, isn’t particularly prestigious, and it’s never implied that Lex doesn’t actually care about this.

Wanting to support the free exchange of knowledge, in the world of BVS, makes you evil.

Lex’s entire character arc, in that he has one, is questioning the right of Superman to rule over ‘save humans from themselves’ time and time again. He tries to warn Metropolis about the threat he thinks Superman poses, comparing him to the Christian God in a Hollywood Atheist kind of way. When that doesn’t work, he essentially becomes a terrorist. The idea is that questioning the right of the ‘correct’ authority because he thinks he knows better and doesn’t take things on faith is what led him to evil.  

Similarly- Batman’s entire arc is searching for things. Finding the true identity of Superman, tracking and stealing the Kryptonite, getting the obvious sequel hook Justice League information from Wondy... BVS Batman does more proper detective work than any cinematic Batman we’ve seen yet. And it’s all in the service of fighting Superman, who is portrayed as having the right - no, the duty - to defend and rule ‘ordinary’ people. This Need To Know leads him to commit various crimes and nearly drives him mad.

 It’s not until Bruce accepts what he ~knows in his heart~- that Superman is Good, because HIS MOTHER’S NAME IS MARTHA!!!!1!!!- that he can become a Real Hero. He stops trying to know anything; he just ~follows his heart~.

This is a side note, and normally I wouldn’t even be bringing this up because it’s just... A Trait of Superhero Movies with Reporter Protagonists. But Superman’s boss is an asshole. He’s portrayed as petty and unreasonable for asking Superman to do his goddamn job and go look at Bruce Wayne/the charity gala. It’s an imposition for someone else to ask you to learn something new, something good people don’t do.

The ‘heroic’ characters - specifically, Superman and Wonder Woman- do not need to learn new information. They already know everything they need to know, and anyone who gets in their way is wrong.

Superman, any time he needs guidance or direction, receives it from the Kents- and specifically, from Dream Ghost Pa Kent in his weird hallucination. It’s corn-pone wisdom, so cliche and- for lack of a better word- basic that It’s Just Common Sense. He doesn’t need to learn anything- he just needs to remember what he was taught as a child, what he already ~knows in his heart~.

 Wondy’s entire subplot revolves around her concealing information from other characters. She’s trying to hide that secret file from Batman, hide that she’s actually an ancient immortal. And while she’s a minor character in the film- normally, I wouldn’t hold this against her- she also doesn’t have any kind of arc. As the “best”, least morally ambiguous character in the movie, she doesn’t need to learn anything or change. She just exists, perfectly.

Now, you could argue that Lois’s plot goes against this. She is a heroic character whose main objective in the film is to learn something, and she is never once portrayed as being unethical for doing so. However... according to Wikipedia, the actress who portrayed her said this:

“She may have some tunnel vision, but she's got a job and moral standards. [When] we met her before, she would do anything to get the story – now Clark has instilled some faith in humanity in her. Her relationship with Clark is the closest thing she has to anything faith-based, you know?“ 

In the world of the Snyder!DCCU, knowledge is repeatedly framed as the opposite of goodness. If you want to know things, you can’t be good. If you don’t respect the proper authorities because you know better, you can’t be good. Having a scientific mindset, questioning everything, figuring things out for oneself? That’s bad. In the best case scenario, it’ll get you hurt; in the worst case, it’ll turn you into a gibbering evil monster.

TLDR: I REALLY HATE this movie. I’m still mad about it five years later.

*(considering the way that Lex frames himself as a Lucifer figure over and over again, I think this was intentional.) 

[akajustmerry]

Hi merry ik this is a super broad and vague qn but the other day my friend was saying she liked dc movies more than marvel Except that marvel has better cinematography and I ???? Hv never heard anyone say that in my life?? And like most of my friends agreed???? Anyway what do u think I trust u when it comes to this stuff cuz ur not like an mcu Stan or wtv u know u just appreciate superhero movies ✌🏽sorry to ask u a marvel/dc qn but I am truly just baffled 🤧

hello! thank u 💕 and tbh that opinion baffles me too?? cinematography is about presenting a mood, an emotion, evoking perspective and narrative with how the scene is filmed. in the case of marvel vs dc, very broadly I'd say the cinematic universes have very different ethos as to how they approach cinematography.

dc tends to be more varied, with each project having a relatively unique cinematography style usually indicative of the director and the vibe of the project overall. Cathy Yan's distinct and detailed vibrancy in birds of prey, deployed in service of showing us Harley's world, is a wonderful example. So is Snyder's biblically grandiose approach to superman in Man of Steel, and James Wan's lingering, sprawling take on Aquaman is also beautiful. None of these three films are filmed in a similar way. They're filmed uniquely to suit their subjects (as unique as a blockbuster can be anyway).

On the other hand, Marvel approaches cinematography in a more uniform way. We know this, not just from looking at the films themselves but from directors like Edgar Wright who were kicked off marvel projects early for refusing to conform to the mcu's creative standard when it comes to cinematography. That's not to say that there's no uniqueness at all, but the mcu leans on a consistent uniform look. The look isn't... Bad. The cinematography does a very tickabox job that looks fine. But there's very little flare or risk in what you see.

There's a big lack of flare and risk because the mcu is a branded product more than it is a story. And Disney needs to be able to sell their brand as widely and consistently as possible and the best way to do that is by creating a product that appeals to as many people as possible. So u find a formula, a look, a style that the most amount of people like and understand and you stick to it. which is what they've done. there's occasionally a little risk, here n there to keep things from being totally stale but generally it's a one size fits all.

people are always more comfortable with consistency and uniformity, it's human nature. so it's much easier to look at the mcu, see that it's cinematography all looks more or less the same and conclude it's better because it has a uniformity. the dccu is often criticised for lacking consistency in style but I think that it's a good thing that for better (birds of prey) or worse (james gunn suicide squad), dc let's it's creatives give their projects unique styles.

I think your friends are just more comfortable with uniformity and mistake that for better quality, despite the two concepts rarely ever being connected. kinda reminds me of how Apple users are always banging on about Apple products being better than the entire market despite that being objectively untrue for years. It's just because that's what they've been sold, that's what they're most comfortable with.

what do I think?? Between dc and the mcu, dc has far more interesting cinematography across the board because its allowed to be relatively varied, but most ppl view that as a negative because the mcu sells itself on uniformed superiority and ppl eat it UP. If Disney let mcu directors actually imbue projects with their unique visual styles like dc?? would be SICK. but the closest they ever came was Thor ragnarok and even then EVEN then it's still pretty safe 💀

hope that answered the question! x

[darnianwayne]

it costs exactly zero dollars ($0) to not shit on all the previous dceu movies and still praise, love, and be totally psyched about wonder woman and yet

[comingupforblair]

I can’t wait to see how much more respectfully the DCEU treats Black Canary compared to DCTV.

[dc-tranarchist]

I love the DCCU and getting pretty annoyed with MCU at this point and I'm so happy I'm not the only one

That's why my blog exists. There are so many blogs and tumblrs and people in general that shit on the DCCU when it doesn't deserve the constant hate it gets. Then you have the Marvel stand who are so used to having there films praised the minute you disparage a film in the slightest they go crazy! Like people sent Death threats to the critics that give marvel movies negative reviews. That's messed up. They can't be happy with anything below 90% sometimes they won't even settle for anything under 100%

[deathbyzamboni-us-blog]

Wonder Woman Review

Patty Jenkins and Gal Godot deliver a Wonder Woman movie that women deserve and one that we all need.

After multiple misfires, the DC cinematic universe has produced a good film. More importantly, this is the first ever, good female lead superhero movie. It is amazingly appropriate that the first well-known superheroine should be the subject for this landmark.   

Wonder Woman is about, well… Wonder Woman (Gal Gadot). Showing her origin and how she was raised on the island of Themyscira. A hidden place which is home to a mythological female warrior race known as the Amazons. Here they could live in peace, away from the god of war, Ares. One day during World War I, a pilot named Steve Trevor (Chris Pine) crashes into the island bringing the war to Themyscira. Diana takes it upon herself to bring Steve back to England and defeat Ares to end the war.

Let’s get the negative stuff out of the way first because I want to spend most of my time gushing about this movie. The climax of this movie comes suddenly (like it’s, oh... I... guess we’re here now) and is a loud mess. I won’t dock the film that much, for all comic book movies have a problem of sticking the climax, but it prevents this film from being an all-time classic (even though part of it appealed to my DBZ loving ass). Also, this movie is framed as flashback reminding us, that yes this is in the DCCU. Since, they HAD TO do it, at least its Batman who triggers the flashback. The problem is that it opens a lot of unnecessary continuity issues and detracts from the story. 

There’s a moment at the beginning where Diana is shown as a little girl watching the Amazon warriors training and mimicking their moves. This moment shows us Wonder Woman was just like you (this includes you, Terry from Bayside, practicing your Jeter stance). It connected me to her as a character right away and I was reminded how for years the character of Wonder Woman has been a symbol for little girls. Showing them that they could achieve anything and now she is shown acting like any little girl who had been inspired by a Wonder Woman comic.   

Not only did this movie win me over in the first five minutes, Galdot’s Wonder Woman is just as awesome and badass as she was in Batman v. Superman (she was the only bright spot in that dumpster fire of a movie). I was pleased how they portrayed Steve Trevor. I liked that he wasn’t a playboy just firing off one-liners. Instead, we get a good man who makes morally questionable decisions from time to time. Pine does a good job of grounding this character and proves to be great a straight man to Diana. Her fish out of water story provides much of the humor that has been missing from the other DC movies.

Diana’s arc also reflected one of an idealist entering the real world after graduating from school. Many of us start out with the best intentions believing we could make a difference. Then we learn that the world is a tough thing to change which, challenges our ideals. When we are confronted with the fact of what we believe could be wrong, how we proceed from there determines our character. These moments could potentially transform us into heroes or villains.

The movie reminded me of the difference between the characters of Marvel and DC. The latter’s protagonists are just like you with most of their conflicts stemming from being human (Spider-Man has to balance work, a love life, and fighting villains, Tony Stark is an alcoholic, etc..) While the former’s heroes gallery is filled with characters we aspire to be (Superman with all the power has he still decides to make the right choice and protect people).

The best scene in Wonder Woman demonstrates this idea and is reminiscent of Donner’s Superman and Nolan’s Batman Begins (I love those movies btw). All these movies have the scene where we have been building up to the moment where we see them in their iconic costumes for the first time. Superman had the helicopter sequence (I’ve got you. Well who’s got you???), Batman Begins shows him picking off villains one by one, In Wonder Woman well…

We get to see the effects of people around her in battle, physically (she destroys people while that awesome theme from Batman v Superman plays) and emotionally (people around her inspired to fight). All while delivering one of the most visceral action sequences in recent memory. Patty Jenkin’s directorial choices all come up money here. You could feel the weight of Wonder Woman and the force that she is in this world. This could be said of most her action sequences but this one was special. A true crowning of the Queen moment. I had to do everything within my power to not stand up and applaud in the theater. Also, I almost cried. I felt all the feelings guys.

I couldn’t stop making the connections to Batman Begins and Superman while watching this and it reminded me what DC’s Trinity represents. Superman is hope and the Donner film was right for an America that needed it in the 70’s. Batman is justice and it was cathartic to see him stand up against terrorists in a post 9/11 world. Meanwhile, Wonder Woman is the spirit of truth. In that case, in the post “He-who-shall-not-be-named” era of America, I can’t think of a better hero than Diana of Themyscira.

Grade: B+

Next Week: The Mummy  

[zippymoth]

Too much negativity everywhere and it's making me literally cry so !!! I'm going to try to be positive!!! I'm really excited about Joss Whedon working on Batgirl!! I think his sense of humor and general tone will be perfect for her and will be just what the DCCU needs!!! I'm really sad that ONE movie made everyone decide that he's literally the antichrist and I hope that WB will let him make the movie that he wants and he can become at least generally liked again!! All day I've been seeing people tear things that I hold near and dear apart and I'm just!!!!! So done!!! I just smashed my elbow into my desk accidentally and that's all I needed to start sobbing!!! It didn't even hurt!!! I feel like absolutely everyone is against me and hates everything that I love and I have no drive or motivation to live right now !!! 😁 I'm so done that I just unfollowed someone that I've loved for months for being an asshole about Whedon !! Because I literally cannot handle that negativity at all right now!!!! It's so insignificant I know but I just fucking can't deal w it!!! Hearing Joss Whedons name makes me anxious just because I automatically assume that whatever follows is going to be negative and it just makes me want to cry!!! I've loved the things he's made for as long as I can remember and seeing everyone suddenly turn on him and how run down he was after AoU is just fucking heartbreaking for me!! So yeah!!! I'm excited for Batgirl!! Fuck me right? I'm literally the worst human on earth and deserve to die

[princessnijireiki]

anyway, my parents got redbox & sui squad was decent even tho enchantress shld’ve either died or been not white to make up for battle royale-ing adam beach & darwin-ing jay hernandez.

amanda waller was predictably the best. and I enjoyed adewale & ofc jay! will was phoning it in, but whatever. and cara has more range than I thought she would— way better than what I’ve seen from jena malone, at least, in terms of dc castings that made me scratch my damn head.

I will say I also liked harley more than I expected, but less than I think the marketing team expected me to; tho tbh, I like margot, but part of it was that her accent work is like… distractingly patchy?? like they just should’ve passed on it in all honesty, she did better with her accent in wolf of wall street, and if jared leto’s allowed to do what all fucking ever he wants, idk why I should have to listen to that. and he actually got more screentime than I thought, based on reports of dude’s complaints— like he really just must’ve gotten weird enough that he tore ass with the studio and/or the “real” stars, for all this mess (unless it’s all Performance Art or sth)— and, in all honesty, I don’t really care for this version of harley x joker they have going, either, so I don’t particularly care either way so long as I don’t have to sit through more of that. but I grew up with hamill, so whatcha gonna do.

I did like that it was colorful, even tho tbh the cinematography was dark & muddy with piss poor fight blocking, so that was always gonna be a case of diminishing returns… but it had fun, memorable costuming, which makes both stunt double shots & merch sales easier, so, yay, team!

I still think the film was def. overhyped, though, being real, most all superhero et al movies are, at this point; and while I think the overly harsh negative critical reception was still like leftover annoyance from bvs (which tbh I hated), combined with like… people thinking it was gonna be meatier than what it was (scenery chewing fluff to go between “big” films & lay groundwork for sequels/spinoffs, in music video format), it’s still a cotton candy piece that imo looks better for comparison with dawn of justice than it would standing on its own. like, imo, in a sort of bigger-picture dccu thing, sui squad actually would’ve made more sense coming out before bvs— besides needing, like, superman to be dead, ofc, though I think you can write around that given how much weird shit happens in midtown (or wtfever that city is) & gotham w/o clark's intervention alone— even if just to break up the self-seriousness of an inherently ridiculous narrative world & give a quasi-introduction to bruce wayne before that film, esp. since I think jl & ww are gonna push that ridiculousness, too… but maybe that’s just me, idk.

the soundtrack WAS really good, though.