#different interpretations are valid

[vacz]

I present to you my idea of a alternative bad ending for Wirt...

THE HUNTER

Instead of Beast!Wirt is Woodsman!wirt

After accepting the deal with the Beast, Wirt became the new lantern barer in hopes to keep Greg alive. He took the job to cut down the ellewoods and make them oil to feed the lantern so Greg's soul would never turn off, exactly what the woodsman used to do with his daughter. But as different from the woodsman, Wirt does know where the ellewoods truly came from, so the Beast has decided to take advantage of it and included him a little bit more into his chase for new victims. Now having Wirt helping the Beast to guide lost souls to the wrong path, it has become so much easier for the Beast to trap new souls

Wirt's role was this for a time: Becoming the new woodsman and finding lost kids to give them wrong directions or ideas. Despise how much he refused in the beginning, soon the Beast made him understand that this was the price for his mistakes, unless he wanted to Greg pay the price instead...

Until one night, Wirt had to confront a travel soul. A boy like him, wanting to save his little brother from the cruel breaches of the tree growing on his helpless body, and finally leave the woods with him, like Wirt himself once did. However, the Beast pressured and demanded him to take action himself, but unlike the old woodsman, Wirt did cut the boy down.

And since that incident, Wirt now has a new task to commit every time a new soul enters into the unknown.

He could barely sleep at night before, now he can't sleep at all. Wirt has stopped taking care of himself, at least he washes his hair and clothes once in a time but time itself seems so uselessly long for him until the point that things don't seem to matter anymore, nothing matters for Wirt, not even himself and his feelings... except keeping the lantern lit

The Beast knows better than anyone that Wirt's mind has become so weak until the point that he can't even survive by himself. He had succeeded in destroying this boy whole identity, only leaving a white paper to work on, so now he tries mold Wirt according his own twisted needs. Ironically, thanks to the Beast's influence, Wirt remembers the reason why he has to keep going with this but also he slowly starts to see people in a similar way that the beast's twisted perception does; trees to feed the lantern, not ready to burn yet but they must be prepared.

It's not surprising how much he has given up to the Beast. But unlike him, Wirt doesn't like to "play" or manipulate their victims, because he doesn't want to know them at all. Wirt already knows how these people will end, and he doesn't want to feel worse than he feels now, so he mostly tries to make his interactions shorter or cut them down directly, the quicker the easier it is for him to adopt this 'human dissociation' mentally

Of course, when he chooses violence, people tend to run rather than do what he plead, so he has to chase after them. Running after someone is exhausting for Wirt because he isn't that athletic in that aspect, and it's frustrating when he can't reach them. There are times when they manage to escape and some others that they don't

Wirt hates running after them, because it makes the situation more torturous and he gets exhausted. But if they don't start running, he is the one who tells them to do so. He doesn't understand very well why he does this but he likes to think that is a way to give them a chance to escape so he doesn't have to be the one to end with them, after all Wirt wants to believe that he is not evil

And yet, at the same time Wirt finds some kind of satisfaction on it... He is scared of what he is becoming.

Of course, he has this little duality inside his brain. The Beast has done a good job to keep Wirt in his role but still that doesn't make Wirt's guilt disappear at all

At least, his guilt has been manifested into a voice, represented by the rock fact. Even if the rock fact was meant for Greg to make silly but un-true facts, Wirt's interpretation of his own rock facts are the cruelest truths he refuses to believe. The rock fact represents that honest and logical part of him that is still there, under the tone of the self hate Wirt has grown on himself.

Of course, when he is around people for a longer period than he feels he should, Wirt stops trying to act normal and let himself to act a little... dramatic, in hopes to scare them or "prepare" himself mentally to go and chase them down with the axe

For this, he likes to use the rock fact. He always keeps it in his hair and uses it to try to re-create a rock fact like the ones Greg used to make, but instead of charming or adorable he looks insane, and he already knows that. Of course, he tries to re-create them seriously when he is alone but still fails miserably

Wirt does this in a poor intent to feel in touch with Greg, even tho they usually talk a lot with each other

Jason Funderberker has been gone for a long time by now, so the Beast is the only company Wirt has left, but most of the time he is alone.

He doesn't devout that his brother is there anymore, after all, Now Wirt can hear Greg's voice coming out of the lantern so what would be a better proof than that?. Greg is the only person left who seems to not hate him or is scared of him, the little ray of sunshine in his poor cruel life. If you tell him otherwise, Wirt won't want to believe you, even if deep down somehow, someway no matter how delusional he may be... He knows is true

Of course, I wouldn't recommend saying this because after having a nervous breakdown he will absolutely go after you with all pure rage.

Now here are some questions and its explanations:

Where does this idea come from?

Where does the name "The Hunter' come from?

What's Wirt and The Beast's relationship?

Wirt, The Woodsman, The Hunter and The Beast

Where does this idea come from?

It's no surprise that it comes from the idea of a bad ending for Wirt, one that is more fitting with the logic of the series. Because let's be real;

If he accepted the deal he wouldn't turn into the new beast because The Beast's motivation was to survive, he doesn't seem to want a replacement or transpass the role to anyone. In that case he would have already done it with The Woodsman.

The unknown was completely fine with the Beast gone so is not that he is THAT important for the forest to need a replacement.

Also, remember this little scene? it's from chapter 1: The Old Grist Mill. When Wirt and Greg just entered the unknown and suddenly heard the Woodsman cutting wood, before talking to him, Wirt said:

"Do you think it's some kind of deranged lunatic with an axe waiting out there in the darkness for innocent victims?"

So I thought; What if in the bad ending... He became that deranged lunatic?

Where does the name "The Hunter" come from"?

In the concept:

Since there are times when Wirt's victims escape, those who survived spread the word of a maniac who is wandering around the woods, looking for new victims, and once he finds them he will chase them until he can cut them down to the bone with his axe

They named him "The Hunter"

Wirt knows about his new reputation, since the travelers call him that once he reveals his real intentions, but he isn't really aware of all the rumors and stories people of the unknown had made about him, he knows that he will not like them but at the same time he is very curious about it. Some of them are true and others are just exaggerating. But at this point, Wirt Hunter had accepted that now he is one of the particular characters of the unknown.

In technical explanation:

In Over The Garden Wall we saw that most of the characters are named by "the what" for example: The Beast and The woodsman, they had no name by their own outside of their archetype. So I thought that in Wirt's case he would have a name like that, losing his own as a representation of how he has lost his own original identity. Wirt is no longer "the worthy one" anymore because he is more lost than the woodsman ever was, and there is no chance to bring him back, so he became "The Hunter" for the unique faction that makes himself distinguish from The Woodsman: The killing

The woodsman is just a man who lives in the woods and cuts trees, it just happens that the Beast used one to keep the lantern on. However.... The Hunter is someone that hunts, the whole point of a hunter is that he chases living beings and strap them, mostly for need. That is something The Beast himself does in his own way, which makes Wirt and The Beast more similar and unionite than the previous dynamic with The Woodsman, or even I dare say they are just alike; The Creature and The Man who hunts for surviving

Also, more into Bad End Friend's territory; Every evil alternate version has their own unique name, for example the icon trio, Bipper and Ice Finn (Also officially named "The Snowman") but then we have just "Beast Wirt" and until now NOBODY has come up with an actual name that fits him. I remember that someone already suggested the name "The Hunter" for Beast Wirt but it didn't make much sense (At least to me). However, in a woodsman context I think it could work better.

What's Wirt and Beast's relationship?

In Wirt's perspective

Basically a case of Stockholm Syndrome: At first he felt more like a prisoner, The Beast was a figure who he should follow if he wants to keep Greg alive, he is more than Wirt and his power overcomes his young self. However as the time passed, Wirt realized that the Beast can also be very merciful and at the same time rightfully ruthless as his monstrous nature allows him, as he has 'shown' him acts of trust. For Wirt, The Beast is a dark but fair being, not as evil as everyone told. The Beast acts similarly like a father would do towards Wirt, but without that human openly caring love. He is strict and cold, but is for Wirt and Greg's own good

In Beast's perspective:

Wirt is nothing but an interesting experiment. The Beast has been manipulating every little detail of Wirt's surroundings, so he decides to obey him by own choice, which worked out way better than expected. He has seen Wirt changing to fit into his needs, becoming more useful and useful than last time. Anytime the Beast has thought he reached the limit, Wirt proves him wrong and finds a way to pass it and go on anyway. His determination is so fascinating to the Beast that he continues to see how far he could go

Their dynamic:

Naive teen being manipulated by his father figure to be useful for his plans or desires (but even more mess up)

Examples of this kind of dynamic are Rapunzel and Mother Gothel from Tangled (2010) or Hunter and Belos from The Owl House (2020)

Wirt has been alone for so long to the point that he holds tightly to anything that could give him a minimum sign of love, and The Beast knows that more than anyone

He has taken advantage of this, so by convincing Wirt to isolate himself and showing barely love, Hunter would listen and obey him without any doubt. It doesn't matter if The Beast is the main responsible for his situation, things have been twisted so much to that point that Wirt fully believes that this is all his fault. He must do the right thing at any cost, after all, he would do anything for the ones he loves right Gregory?

Wirt, The Woodsman, The Hunter and The Beast

These are the four identities Wirt adopts in the time on the unknown, like states of his sanity slowly decaying

Wirt

The anxious teen we all know and love, the guy he has been during his journey until the point where he faced the Beast face to face

The Woodsman

Wirt post-deal

At first:

He doubts that Greg may be in the lantern, and now he regrets his decision. However he doesn't know what to do now because the guilt for Greg will not leave him in peace, and so Wirt feels like he doesn't deserve to go home, he can't go back, no without Greg. So he still lives in the forest, feeding the lantern and hearing the Beast's words, however The Beast insists that Greg is indeed in the lantern, but Wirt isn't sure whether to believe him or not

Even if Wirt knows he needs the ellewood, like the woodsman, he tries to help and warns about the Beast to those who came into the unknown

The Beast warned him about helping people, but he didn't listen to him until one night. There was an incident where he almost lost Greg's light forever for the lack of ellewood. Since then, Wirt finally cooperates with the Beast

At last:

Wirt knows what he must do. He misguides those who pass through the way in forms to get enough ellewood for Greg, always making sure to keep himself distance and not get too close with them. However there are times where he can't NOT sympathize with the travelers and so he offers his genuine help

The Beast wasn't comfortable knowing that Wirt still kept helping people.

The Hunter

Wirt post-murder

At first:

After his first kill, Wirt felt so guilty that he stopped taking care of his health (He stopped eating, bathing, and stuff) and encaged himself inside the house with all the bottles of oil, fearing that he would hurt someone again

At this time Wirt started to hear the voices of Greg, the rock and the crying of the lost souls, and talk to them until he ran out of oil

When he finally went outside, his body was too weak to even walk and he fell on the grass unconsciously. At that moment the Beast thought Wirt died and so he was about to take off the lantern, but the boy's hands wouldn't stop grabbing it with all the fury. The Beast kept trying until suddenly Wirt woke up and said to him that as long as his brother needs him he would be still here. For his stupid unbreakable determination, the beast didn't see any other option but to take care of the kid

As he recovered, The Beast started to convince him of the idea of taking people as nothing but ellewoods he needs. Wirt didn't like it at first, but the Beast's kind act and the poor health state he put himself into finally made him accept the new task.

At last (actual state):

Most of the time he is alone, searching around the forest for more ellewood to feed Greg with, day and night. He doesn't fully sleep, he takes naps in the afternoon so he can be wake up all night as he wants. To eat he hunts animals, fish, rabbits and some other birds or frogs, whatever living being he finds. To entertain himself he recites poetry and sings songs that the Beast has taught him, all loud like someone would listen to him. At home he writes his poems and composes his own music, mostly for clarinet.

At times the voices are louder and other times they are quiet. If it's Greg then it would be a nice time, if it's the rock fact it's a guarantee he would be at least pissed off, and if it is the distant crying of the lost souls then paranoid it is.

When someone crosses his way, it depends on how things are going to see how things will end. When he just indicates the direction you'll better leave as soon as you can, because the longer you stay and talk to him Wirt will act weirder in hopes for you to leave him alone, otherwise, if you cross the line with your words, he probably will run out of patience and starts to prepare the axe

But it also depends on how likeable he finds you. He could not care and warned you before he attacks you as usual, he could hate you so much to the point that he attacks you with no warning, he could like you and give you five seconds of advantage, and if he likes you a little bit more he would become obsessed with you and will maintain you inside his house so the Beast will not know about your existence as long you don't go outside

The Beast

The Beast (According to the Woodsman's words) is the death of all hope. How low would you have to go so you lost your whole humanity to become the living embodiment of one of the darkness concepts in human kind?

If Wirt ever became the Beast, he should have been falling in grace until the lowest point a person could go. So in my idea of The Hunter, I like to imagine that the differences between The Beast and Wirt would slowly fade away until they are one in the same

Inside The Hunter, Wirt has not only become lost in life but he has also lost his identity, his spirit, his desires and his home. The one thing left to lose is his humanity... His soul

The only thing that separates him from The Beast, is him holding on to the last piece of humanity he has left; Greg

Day after day his sanity is drifting away, but it's because of Greg's existence that he is connected with his humanity, because his actions are meant for Greg's surviving, not his

If Wirt descends to absolute madness and forgets completely about Greg but also openly enjoys his cruelest actions, to the Unknown's eyes, he would no longer be worthy of humanity, and as a punishment he would be cursed to be the successor of the Beast

And becoming worse.

Like I have been having this idea in my mind for a while now and I wanted to share it. I hope you liked my idea and the drawings I made because it really took me a lot of time trying to finish this post because you know... Christmas and happy new year (ah yes, what a happy post to show in these lovely times, yeah!)

SO WHAT YOU THINK?

[seagreenstardust]

Your guide to living as a bkdk shipper post-431

1. Izuku rejected an offer to work under Katsuki as an intern. This wasn’t a rejection of Katsuki as a human or hero work or even being partners with Katsuki, just Izuku finally knowing what he is worth and asking for more

2. Katsuki’s “see ya” wasn’t a forever goodbye, but a comfortable “see ya later” in which he knows Izuku will be taking care of his business and working his way back around to Kacchan again

3. Katsuki basically told the car Izuku was his type then pointed out that Izuku was missing what was right in front of him, while the camera gave us Izuku’s PoV of Katsuki right in front of him, so do with that what you will

4. Izuku chased after Ochako to tell her he wants them to talk more after eight years of him basically isolating himself from everyone who wasn’t Kacchan, because he listened to Katsuki in the car and realized he needs to let people know when he cares about them, and we can 100% see this as a platonic-leaning interaction without stepping outside of canon (including the bro-hand-clasp)

5. Even if it’s not and they’re reconnecting to see what’s there, if the point of Katsuki’s advice was to get Izuku thinking about what he wants more, he’s gonna circle back around to Katsuki eventually. We have 430 canon chapters backing this up.

6. To reiterate: Izuku is eventually gonna be telling Kacchan how special he is to him too, we just don’t get to see it. 431 is the start of everything we ever wanted for Izuku: self- reflection, therapy, understanding his own emotions. Ochako was the first step in a long journey that, again, is going to end with Katsuki

Stay safe out there folks!! As far as I can tell MHA is still bkdk’s playground

[jon-sedai]

The way we discuss prophecy in fandom is genuinely fascinating. GRRM spends so much time showing how different characters have different interpretations of the same thing based on their own cultural contexts. He says that prophecy is tricky to navigate through multiple characters, showing that even the most careful practitioner can get almost everything wrong and fall victim to their own fallacies (see Mel). So tell me why the main takeaway for large parts of this fandom is “prophecy stupid, it doesn’t matter”. My brothers and sisters in R’hllor, GRRM didn’t invent multiple characters (three of whom are main POVs!!) who can see the future for this to be the conclusion. This is a FANTASY series. Please I’m begging, let us be serious 🥲

[kabukeo]

colored this thing for fun

[windwenn]

Stuff i've been thinking about a lot recently (not unrelated to my feelings about star trek)

[kisses-in-the-void]

One of the reasons I don’t agree with the interpretation that Melkor hated and mistreated Mairon is that, instead of being a "more accurate look at canon", I feel like it oversimplifies him and turns him into a flat caricature with no depth.

It's like he doesn’t even need a motive to hate someone, and hatred is the only emotion he’s capable of experiencing nonstop — like breathing. (I know the Valar probably don’t need air, but you get my clever metaphor.) It makes him a very boring and one-dimensional character, and I just don’t think he belongs in that category, even if he is a literal Satan and the root of all evil in Arda. But he still had his own specific reasons for actively loathing someone, even if sometimes those reasons might seem illogical.

He hated Varda because she rejected him. He hated Aulë because they were similar, but Melkor was jealous of his rival’s talents and insecure about his own. He hated Ulmo and his dominion — the ocean — because he couldn’t subdue it. He hated all of the Eldar because he believed they were responsible for his imprisonment in Mandos (since the Valar went to war against him to protect them). He hated Húrin and cursed his family because Húrin disrespected him.

Melkor might have been quick to feel anger, hatred, and a desire to destroy or punish someone — but he still needed a reason for it. When he felt denied, disrespected, threatened, or unable to control something. And I just don’t see Mairon falling into any of those categories.

On the contrary, not only did he willingly accept Melkor as his master and serve him to the best of his ability, but he also admired and adored him. I think even someone as evil and cruel as Melkor would have felt at least some satisfaction in having such a servant — someone who acknowledged him as a leader and as a talented creator. Maybe… he might even have been grateful.

I don't think it’s such a stretch to assume that he could have been pleased with Mairon to some degree. Or that it was absolutely impossible for him to feel any positive emotion when he accomplished something good (good from his own perspective, of course). Mairon, being complicit in all of Melkor’s deeds upon Arda, could very well have earned some rewards for it — and been uplifted above others.

And it’s very much canon that he trusted Mairon the most — that Mairon was his greatest servant and held "the great power" under his command. To me, that suggests something closer to respect (at least to the extent Melkor was capable of feeling it for anyone) rather than hate, and also a recognition of the value of his most devoted follower — loyal from the Elder Days to the very end of their relationship.

[thequeenofsastiel]

The thing is, after this ep I think Style is actually a little switchy. He's shown that he likes being somewhat dominant on occasion. But I don't think Fadel is switchy. I've never gotten even the tiniest bit of a sub vibe from him. I think Fadel is a Dom who comes off as stern(and definitely sometimes is) but secretly likes spoiling his sub. So even though being dominated by itself does nothing for Fadel, he likes making Style happy, so he'll let Style be a little dominating. It's not really a case of switching so much as a case of a Dom spoiling his sub. It's a subtle difference, but if you know what to look for, it's there.

[smoked-salmon-official]

on my hands and knees begging people to stop infantilizing bumblebee

[uhohmichio]

I've been thinking about Mayumi and Kiryu's relationship in yakuza 5....

[SPOILERS FOR YAKUZA 5!!!]

I haven’t seen too much discussion around their relationship other than her irrelevancy (which yeah she really got the short end of the stick but also shes on the cover?) or how Kiryu’s disinterest in her makes him asexual. While the asexual interpretation is valid, I don’t necessarily think he is and during this game I think his depression is the main reason he acts so disinterested in Mayumi. From the rooftop scene, we know kiryu was at his lowest of lows during the six month period he’s been away from the orphanage. At this point of his life, he’s lost his foster father, his brother, the love of his life, his rikiya, has separated from someone he fell in love with, and now separated from haruka, everyone from morning glory and his community in okinawa, while also staying away from tojo members (like having to distance himself from daigo). It was the first game in my play through (y0-y5) that opens with kiryu in a long period of isolation and grief. [in previous games it opens with him meeting up with nishiki or haruka/at morning glory] I think Kiryu was so depressed from being separated from everyone, he just allowed Mayumi to stick around because he wanted some sense of normalcy in his life in fukuoka. (He has lived the past ~5 years living in a house full of kids, I’ll bet company comes as normalcy for him) They did establish some sort of romantic relationship since Mayumi says “We’ve been together for six months, yet we’ve never had a moment like this”. So they have yet to fill this expectation of physical intimacy their agreed relationship has. But depression can morph/dampen the way you express or feel love, so maybe Kiryu was trying during this time and the most he really could do was just passively allow her presence/company or he just kept her around for company and convenience and settled for a distant but peaceful relationship. Meanwhile, Mayumi delegates herself to performing acts of service; she helps him cook, clean, and do basic tasks around the apartment. His apartment is so bare and spotless, I don’t think he’s bothered to decorate and make it feel like home (other than a photo he puts in a corner) and I don’t think it would be as clean if Mayumi wasn’t there. She’s probably also convinced herself that her way of helping is helping him emotionally. As Below.

I think Kiryu’s reaction is him partly in disbelief that anything she does would make him happy. But he also probably doesnt feel much of a difference when she is there and wouldn’t want to outright say that to her. However, he does complain about her cleaning his shit, bc that’s something he probably feels he should do himself.

Kiryu’s never really had very traditional relationships and this one is no exception but his depression heavily affected how he treated Mayumi and their relationship.

Anyways, despite him complaining to her about her cleaning his shit and acting indifferent and disinterested in every single interaction with her, he still thanks Madarame for sending Mayumi to accompany him. From all the events leading up to this point that have shaken kiryu up to rise to action and with Mayumi’s true identity revealed, he’s come to realize his appreciation for Mayumi’s company. So I’d like to believe his gratitude towards Mayumi and Madarame was genuine even if he couldnt reciprocate Mayumi’s feelings.

[idkwhatimdoingbutslay]

I don’t personally view any endings as “this is what the narrative wants you to believe SHOULD have happened considering the circumstances/ this is the fate they deserve”. After seeing the alternate universes and Jayce coming back to reverse their fates, I think the whole thing is just about choices.

Jinx didn’t have to escape the way she did. She chose to.

Jayce did have to die with Viktor. He chose to.

Caitlyn and Vi didn’t have to end up together. They chose to.

Ekko didn’t have to save Jinx or leave the AU. He chose to.

Mel didn’t have to help the take down of her mother and (presumably, I guess) become the leader of Noxus. She chose to.

The narrative worked out the way that it did because those were the decisions the writers found fitting for the characters. No one has to agree with the decisions of the characters and trying to quantify what characters deserve seems like a waste of time to me. It’s not that the narrative is saying “this had to happen/ this character deserved this ending because of this and that,” but these are the decisions the characters are making with the hands they were dealt.

Arcane isn’t a story with morals* beyond the intersections of love, choice and fate.

*by morals I mean how you learn to not be dramatic because no one will believe you when the real thing happens from the story about The Boy Who Cried Wolf or how you learn to never judge a book by its cover lest you miss what they have on the inside from The Beauty and The Beast. It’s not here to teach you a lesson, it’s just human introspection.

[shroomerr]

shipping discourse is so funny to me because ill see people flip over their otps and notps and im over here going "haha stendy. woohoo stanchole. oho stolkien. yayy twenny. ohh bunny. wohohh creek. ooo cryle" etc. etc.

[askviktor]

Hello, to clarify I do not mean to ask this question as an offense as many do, and I do not want you to take this as a personal flaw or insult, but, have you considered that you may be on the autistic spectrum? This is based off very vague observations I have managed to gather as you (rightfully) do not disclose many details about your personal life, and the spidey senses I have inherited from my own neurodivergency. (english is not my first language sorry)

No offense taken at all! Your question comes across as thoughtful and well-intentioned, as well as clear and well-expressed; you need not apologize for your English. Indeed, your multilingualism is to be commended!

While I feel unqualified to personally diagnose myself as such, I do recognize that some traits people associate with neurodivergence, like intense focus and a deep attachment to specific interests, could align with aspects of my personality. I am also perhaps more emotionally compartmentalized and less concerned with societal norms than most - or so I have been told.

I can understand if your “spidey senses” are picking up on something familiar. Perhaps you are correct! Certainly, the human mind is a faceted and complex puzzle, and a fascinating one at that!

[sneep-snorps]

I'm very curious about something... I've seen a lot of individuals interpret Snape's feelings towards Lily as platonic, and platonic only!

Since I've always seen them in a more romantic light, I'm now curious as to how their relationship tends to be viewed by others

I'm asking because I've seen people be surprised by a more romantic interpretation, which confused me at first, as I always thought him being in love with her was "canon" to some degree.

It only recently dawned on me that his feelings towards her have never been specified, lol

[54625]

I love the qFit hearing aids headcanon because him being hard of hearing is actually somewhat canon, but at the same time I fully believe that his ass would not wear hearing aids and would instead just brute force his way through life despite everything being way too quiet for him all the fuckin time

[nartml]

Saw a comment describe killugon as 'born to be brothers, forced to be best friends'.

And I just have to say that, out of all the things that have never happened, that has never happened the most.

[kisses-in-the-void]

"Arwen was way too powerful in LOTR movies, that means she is Sauron's granddaughter" is a very... bizarre thing to say for many reasons, but the funniest of them is that while it's true that Peter Jackson shipped Galadriel with a certain Maia character BUT IT WASN'T SAURON, IT WAS GANDALF. AND THIS MAN ISN'T YOUR ALLY. Y'ALL CRAZY TO FORGET HOW SHAMELESSLY HE WAS PUSHING IT IN THE HOBBIT MOVIES. WAKE THE FUCK UP 🤣