#dungortheb

[sesamenom]

interesting how in the FA "beyond lay the wilderness of Dungortheb, where the sorcery of Sauron and the power of Melian came together, and horror and madness walked", then in the TA the Fangorn-Lorien-Mirkwood triangle of Weird Sorcery Forests exists between the domains of saruman, galadriel, necromancer-sauron, and radagast

[atane-is-here]

@tolkienhorrorweek

Nan Dungortheb & Ered Gorgoroth

Ungoliant crept towards Melkor. Towards the only light now left in these desolate lands untouched by the stars. But he would not give up the Silmarils.

[barelyanartblog]

Melian teaches Galadriel how to enchant forests

[outofangband]

Thoughts on Nan Dungortheb

Thinking more about Nan Dungortheb, the Valley of Dreadful Death. This is the mysterious land in the foothills of the Ered Gorgoroth (Mountains of Terror), where it was rumored Ungoliant and her spawn fled to and lived for some time. Its primary mention in The Silmarillion after that is when Beren travels through it at great peril. We know little about his journey other than that it was a harrowing ordeal.

Here are some headcanons about the valley and its monstrous inhabitants. I had a lot of fun coming up with strange effects. Also thanks to the lovely @rana-temporaria because talking with them made me want to write about more creepy locations

Nan Dungortheb is a meadow steppe with the foothills of the mountains on its Northern border. The river Mindeb ran on the Western border and the river Esgalduin on the east.

It is cold though with higher rainfall than the mountains. Mists are common, both natural and unnatural. The waters on either side of the vale are largely devoid of fish and what species do live in the rivers are inedible

The spiders of Nan Dungortheb are not true spiders of course and their forms vary widely as does their size. Some appear as mere shadows.

The webs themselves are mildly corrosive and slowly kill the trees they are woven between, creating an eerie landscape of hardened skeletons of wood.

The spinning of their webs produces a lulling sound that is used sometimes to lure prey though most of the elves know enough to be wary.

Just like with Glaurung, the toxins created by these creatures can spread throughout surrounding flora and even infect the water. Run off from Ered Gorgoroth can be deadly. Other times it can cause almost psychedelic effects.

The presence of the spiders and other monsters was partially contained by the Girdle of Melian for the enchantment that wove and sang it was one they despised and avoided. Starved of prey, their own numbers began to decline. Some of course escaped East and their original forms began to more clearly resemble the spiders around them.

When Ungoliant’s spawn die, their forms become even less animal like, becoming spots of darkness that distort or even trap light, further impacting the ecology of the land

[fistfuloflightning]

white light amid the darkness

Day 1: Noontide of Valinor - prompts by @nolofinweanweek

[savage-kult-of-gorthaur]

"IN A RAVINE SHE LIVED, AND TOOK SHAPE AS A SPIDER OF MONSTROUS FORM, WEAVING HER BLACK WEBS..."

PIC(S) INFO: Mega spotlight on a First Age piece titled "Melkor Calls Forth Ungoliant," artwork by renowned Tolkien Legendarium illustrator, John Howe, c. 2003.

"In a ravine she lived, and took shape as a spider of monstrous form, weaving her black webs in a cleft of the mountains. There she sucked up all light that she could find, and spun it forth again in dark nets of strangling gloom, until no light more could come to her abode; and she was famished. Now Melkor came to Avathar and sought her out; and he put on again the form that he had worn as the tyrant of Utumno: a dark Lord, tall and terrible. In that form he remained ever after.

There in the black shadows, beyond the sight even of Manwë in his highest halls, Melkor with Ungoliant plotted his revenge. But when Ungoliant understood the purpose of Melkor, she was torn between lust and great fear; for she was loath to dare the perils of Aman and the power of the dreadful Lords, and she would not stir from her hiding. Therefore Melkor said to her: "Do as I bid; and if thou hunger still when all is done, then I will give thee whatsoever thy lust may demand. Yea, with both hands." Lightly he made this vow, as he ever did; and he laughed in his heart. Thus did the great thief set his lure for the lesser.”

-- J.R.R. TOLKIEN, "The Silmarillion," page 73-74, "Of the Darkening of Valinor," published 1977

Sources: www.reddit.com/r/tolkienfans/comments/10hxh5z, Hennen-Annun, www.john-howe.com/portfolio/gallery/data/media/35/026-Melkor--Ungoliante-por.jpg, various, etc...

[aureentuluva70]

Lay of Leithian Part 7: The Renown of Beren

Part 6<<<<<< >>>>>>Part 8

[tolkienhorrorweek]

Tolkien Horror Week is back for another year of celebrating all the terrifying and unsettling bits of Tolkien's work! The event will run from October 26th to November 1st and accepts all types of fanworks. There is an AO3 collection for the event here.

Below are some suggested prompts for each day of the week. They are not mandatory; feel free to combine them or disregard them entirely.

Day 1: Angband, Utumno, & Tol-in-Gaurhoth | beautiful and yet horrible of shape | captives and thralls Day 2: Angmar & Minas Morgul | lit with a fell light | specters and wraiths Day 3: Mordor & the Dead Marshes | enmeshed in shadows | spells and enchantments Day 4: The Barrow-downs & the Old Forest | cold be hand and heart and bone | mists and mires Day 5: Mirkwood, Nan Elmoth, & Taur-nu-Fuin | hunted like wild beasts | beasts and monsters Day 6: Nan Dungortheb & the Paths of the Dead | phantoms of terror | webs and snares Day 7: Isengard, Moria, & Númenor | old and forgotten | rituals and sacrifices

Please mention @tolkienhorrorweek in the body of your post and tag #tolkienhorrorweek and #tolkienhorrorweek2025 in the first 10 tags. You may also submit a post. Please tag any content warnings/gore and place any NSFW content beneath a read more/link to AO3.

For more information, see the FAQ. If you have any questions, drop them in the ask box.

Art is by John Howe.

[thesilmarilliondrawn]

With their flaming whips, the Balrogs tore apart Ungoliant's webs, and she fled to from the north, to the Ered Gorgoroth and the valley from then on known as Nan Dungortheb, the Valley of Terrible Death. There, she found other spiders to breed her horrible offspring, and devoured them, before eventually moving south and disappearing from the tales of the world.

The Silmarillion, chapter IX, "On the Flight of the Noldor"

[pollkien]

TAR-ANCALIMË PROPAGANDA (art by Sara M. Morello):

First ruling queen of Númenor!

Also ruled for the second longest, only behind Elros himself

OLDE. 412 years old when she died

Her dad cheated on her mom for the sea???

Spoke Sindarin as her primary language

“Erendis had become bitter towards men and sought to feed her daughter with her own bitterness.” This is so funny

Apparently found her mother irksome too

Didn’t want a kid. Good for her

Also kinda classist. Not great

“After her father's death in S.A. 1098 she neglected all his policies and no longer provided help to Gil-Galad in Lindon” oh dear

Ok the more I read about her the more problematic of a ruler she becomes. But hey maybe you like bitter women. If you do she is probably so hot

AREDHEL PROPAGANDA (art by Ted Nasmith):

Tolkien royally (haha) screwed her over in every sense of the word

Also known as the white lady of the noldor. We all must wonder how she doesn’t get her clothes dirty.

Was apparently born in YT 1362 but I refuse to acknowledge that as canon

“when she was grown to full stature and beauty she was greater and stronger than woman’s wont, and she loved much to ride on horse and to hunt in the forests, and there was often in the company of her kinsmen, the sons of Fëanor; but to none was her heart’s love given. She was called the White Lady of the Noldor; for though her hair was dark, she was pale and clear of hue, and she was ever arrayed in silver and white” she is sooooo sexy. Clear of hue seems a bit terrifying

Keeps following Turgon around for some reason? Leave girl that man clearly has problems. Go hang out with Fingon

“But Aredhel said: ‘I am your sister and not your servant, and beyond your bounds I will go as seems good to me. And if you begrudge me an escort, then I will go alone.’” This is an absolute power line

Went through spider valley and survived. I think? I see the words Nan Dungortheb but everything else is just names and words

“While she lay resting, she spoke to her niece Idril and begged her to ensure Turgon showed mercy to Eöl. This was not to be, as the weapon Eöl used had been poisoned. Aredhel died shortly after making this final plea, leaving the city and its King bereaved once more.” Wahgh!

A story foil to Galadriel if you think about it. I will not explain further

[sesamenom]

highlights from Hobbit-Era Worldbuilding:

according to tolkiengateway these were-worms are never again mentioned (occupying a similar mythological space as mermaids and turtle-fish and dumbledors/hummerhorns), and the Last Desert is in fact the Gobi Desert

dragons established a breeding population sometime between the end of the War of Wrath and the beginning of the Hobbit

dragons have an innate sense of the market value of precious metals

one troll has a talking purse, which is also never again mentioned

The entirety of the moon-letters?? and also the riddle-game

lol bilbo

gollum has pockets, apparently

okay so at this point in the lore chances are this is either irrelevant or metaphorical. but imagine if gollum survived 500 yrs with the ring because he randomly has a fire-fea, like some weird ancient hobbit equivalent of feanor

gandalf's "also naughty little boys that play with fire get punished" sounds very much like it was tacked on there as part of the bedtime story edition lol.

the Eagles regularly random shepherds' flocks

matches exist and are commonly in use, except for by dwarves

eagle pleasantries

the Lord of the Eagles might not be gwaihir on account of the lack of a crown in gwaihir's later descriptions

forget bombadil, where did beorn come from. he's probably related to the tompolle dancing bears of numenor, but where did *those* bears come from. and who are these ancient giants (the thunder-battlers?)

beorn's weird dogs

how many dancing-bear skin-changers are there in rhovanion?? or is beorn just hosting dance parties with regular bears

The sleep river and eyes and white deer are probably the mirkwood equivalent of the nan dungortheb too-many-ainur-in-one-place weirdness

Thingol mention!

also "his people neither mined nor worked metals or jewels, nor did they bother much with trade or with tilling the earth." what was doriath even doing

dragons do the dolphin sleep thing

...so this bit of dragon etiquette is definitely turin's fault

and come to think of it, the wearing-hoards-as-armor is definitely from azaghal stabbing glaurung

bilbo has coined a lot of proverbs

hey that was gandalf's original name. it's a noldorin/gnomish name now and not attributed to a numenorean, so was bladorthin like. gil galads successor or something.

i had forgotten how much this sounds like the Oath

lol

the Iron Hills dwarves have some sort of superfine maille?

sorry thorin, that's what you get for calling him a rat

imagine the Wars of Beleriand with added bilbo commentary

[atane-is-here]

Beyond lay the wilderness of Thuringia, where the sorcery of Saxony and the power of Bavaria came together, and horror and madness walked.

[kaelio]

When are those ivory tower do-nothing demigods in Valinor going to address the giant spider issue?

Title says it all, but if you'll hear me out, I think my frustration is pretty warranted. I'm not some kind of troublemaker.

Giant spiders aren't a new problem. In fact, let's call them an old problem. A very old problem. And here's what rankles me about 'very old problems': are we going to... do anything about that? Or are we just supposed to take for granted that giant spiders are going to be hanging around? And I'm not just talking about giant spiders, I'm talking about evil entities in the form of a spider. Are we totally sure we can coax some more... fruit?... out of the sun? A flower from the moon? You get my drift? Because if you'll pardon my saying so, I have concerns that the powers-that-be seem ill-disposed to address.

Here I've been told that Manwë and Varda (the same Varda who, might I remind you, knows "all the regions of Eä") are seldom parted. Well that's great news! Because together Manwë can see through mist, right? Through darkness? Over the leagues of the sea—this sound familiar? And Varda can hear from "the dark places"? Really seems like the kind of team that could look into something called "The Valley of Dreadful Death" and the teeming spawn of Ungoliant who apparently reside there?

In fact, I might get them to look into it rather than send that big beefhead Tulkas like the last time some roiling dark cloud was hanging around! Yeah sure, the last valar to come to Arda, I'm sure he's going to be right on that. Look, I know that when times look tough everyone's got a laser focus on this-or-that upcoming festival, but does this take a long time? A long time that the valar don't have? Because of how precious they are with their time that they never, ever waste by sitting around apparently waiting for... whatever? I guess giant spiders would have a hard time scaling Oiolossë so, like, screw me, right?

I mean apparently SOMEONE took a gander. Otherwise, where does Pengoloth get off telling me she ate herself? Oh yeah? Who saw that? I don't think Pengoloth saw that. I don't think he went to the Valley of Dreadful Death. "Yet some have said she ended long ago." 'Some'? Who's 'some'? Who saw this? Who was wishy-washy about seeing it? 'Oh, I think I saw a colossal, inscrutable being of darkness devour itself, but maybe she didn't." Hey, maybe you should check! Maybe someone could check! "Of the fate of Ungoliant no tale tells." Well, I think some tale should tell! I think some tale should tell because somebody decided to show a little more initiative on this being-of-incomprehensible-darkness issue!

You know what this ate-herself stuff sounds like to me? Wishcasting.

You pretended she didn't exist before she ate the trees, and now that she's toddled off, you're like... yeah. She's gone probably. Wouldn't that be neat? So it probably happened. Wow! Just like the balrogs! They're probably all gone! No need to trouble ourselves, peeking around some spooky place like Angband. I'm sure it's fine!

Look, I know we're all mad at Fëanor for the Kinslaying and all that. But do I think if some giant spider had come around and keelhauled Finwë, we'd have seen some action on the giant-spider front. What's Finarfin going to do, form a committee? Give me a break! And don't get me started on those ass-kissing Vanyar; they aren't going to do anything without Manwë's say-so. Great. Super. The bird guy! We're all going to leave it to the bird guy!

So now we've got a Nan Dungortheb that's just wall-to-wall spiders, apparently. Or maybe it's not! Maybe it's just a paltry little handful. Who knows! Nobody's telling me!

Look, the way I see it, there's two possibilities. First off, there are only a couple giant spiders. Okay. I could buy that. In that case, I think... all right, fine. Send Tulkas, right? If this is just a quick job. I'm sure even Valinor can get something together. That'd be awful nice for the little guys like me, right? People like me don't just have an enchanted sword just lying around, so that'd be a big weight off our shoulders, let me tell you. But here's the other possibility: there's a ton of spiders! Way too many! So many it's a big problem! If that's the case, I think we ought to know that right away. I don't think "giant spider surprise" is where we want to go with this. Shelob only got more armored for her layers upon layers of "evil growth" so, maybe, let's get a move on that. Chop chop! How many spare Berens do you think we have hanging around? Particularly since—and I just can't stress this enough—I don't know why anyone thinks Ungoliant is gone for good. What, the absence of a dark being in a spider's form? ... Is evidence that she ate herself? Even though no one apparently witnessed this happening? I mean, listen to yourself.

Now, I know you're thinking—whine, whine, whine. But isn't remote to me. This isn't some abstract concept, some vague ideological problem. We've got giant spiders spilling into Mirkwood. Oh gee, where are the spiders coming from? Nan Dungortheb? No way? Because we're just letting giant spiders breed there, the spawn of Ungoliant? Sure!

Would it kill someone to be a little proactive here?

[outofangband]

I liked your post on Nan Dungortheb ! Do you have ideas on creatures there other than giant spiders?

In response to this post!

Thanks so much, Anon! I assumed you meant unusual creatures but if you’d like a proper fauna post let me know!

Here are a couple ideas I had, I’ll probably add to it later

Cave bears. Tolkien said in Valinor there was every creature that has ever or had ever lived on this earth and many that had not. I headcanon many of these prehistoric or fantastical creatures lived outside of Aman as well. The caves and forests of the Ered Gorgoroth provide cover and prey for cave bears and they sometimes travel across Nan Dungortheb to hunt

There are several species of deer, likely roe deer and red deer, that have been changed by their many years in Ered Gorgoroth and Nan Dungortheb, including from drinking from the odd, frigid pools there. While many die or simply migrate towards Dorthonion or Brethil, some remain and resemble something somewhat different. They’re not dangerous, usually, but they are uncanny.

Infected trees like the willow in The Lord of the Rings. They largely remain stationary for years, even decades. Birds don’t perch upon them and it is unwise to pass close by (thinking about corruption spreading through water like it does when Glaurung poisons the pools of Ivrin. Sometimes hungry roots soak up corrupted water)

I imagine there were stories about ancestors to the trolls in Dorthonion. These originated from unknown creatures in Nan Dungortheb that lived in the hills. They were nocturnal and largely harmless though quite territorial.

[barelyanartblog]

Catfight in Nan Dungortheb

[warrioreowynofrohan]

Aredhel, Celegorm, and Curufin

There’s a lot of odd bits in the dynamic between these three that I’ve tried to explain to myself.

As a foundation, Aredhel is friends with all of the sons of Fëanor, not judt Celegorm and Curufin.

She was younger in the years of the Eldar than her brothers; and when she was grown to full stature and beauty she was tall and strong, and loved much to ride and hunt in the forests. There she was often in the company of the sons of Fëanor, her kin; but to none was her heart’s love given.

Secondly, she’s not necessarily any closer friends with Celegorm and Curufin than with any other of their brothers, and she is never said to be closer with Celegorm than with Curufin. I understand why it’s easy to assume the latter part due to common interests (they both enjoy hunting), but as far as I know it’s nowhere stated.

I had actually misremembered something here – I thought that her specific goal upon leaving Gondolin was to visit Celegorm and Curufin specifically, but it’s not as clear as I thought.

But when she came to the Ford of Brithiach in the River Sirion she said to her companions: “Turn now south and not north, for I will not ride to Hithlum; my heart desires rather to find the Sons of Fëanor, my friends of old.”

In her conversations with the march-wardens of Doriath, they speak of “the land of Celegorm, for which you seek”, and say:

“The speediest way is by the paths that lead east from the Brithiach through Dimbar and along the north-march of this kingdom, until you pass the bridge of Esgalduin and the Fords of Aros, and come to the lands that lie behind the Hill of Himring. There dwell, as we believe, Celegorm and Curufin, and it may be that you will find them; but the road is perilous.”

The “as we believe” is strange to me; it suggests the Doriathrim don’t have the most detailed knowledge of the layout of the Fëanorean armies (or, alternatively, that they’re aware that the Sons of Fëanor themselves move around as fair bit, as in this case where Celegorm and Curufin are visiting Caranthir).

Aredhel gets to Celegorm and Curifin’s lands first because they’re the closest ones on the road she has taken, but that doesn’t mean she set out to visit them specifically.

The first question is: why doesn’t Aredhel head to Thargelion when she’s told that Celegorm and Curufin are there visiting Caranthir? I don’t have a definite answer to this. Maybe she’s tired of travelling for a while: she’s already been through quite the ordeal in Nan Dungortheb. Or maybe expects them to be back soon and doesn’t care as much about visiting Caranthir. Maybe after a while she gets aggravated at them for not coming back, and doesn’t want to chase after them any more.

The second question is: if they’re good friends, why don’t they come back to see her? Upon rereading, one possibility is that messengers aren’t sent to inform them of the fact, but I can’t see why not. “Your cousin who you haven’t seen in 200 years has come to visit” seems newsworthy. Another possibility is that they quarrelled aftef the arrival of the hosts of Fingolfin and Finarfin over the Helcaraxë and hadn’t yet made up when Aredhel went to Gondolin, and part of the reason for this visit is that she wanted to mend fences. In that case, they might still be angry over the agrument and be staying away on purpose. I like this theory because it also helps explain why Aredhel agreed to go to a hidden city where she’d never see the Fëanoreans again, and then changed her mind.

The third question is really a few different parts: why don’t Celegorm or Curufin do anything to help Aredhel, either when she is with Eöl or when she flees? And why does Curufin tell Eöl where she went?

The answer to the first part is, to me, pretty clear: that no one knows or has any reason to conclude that Aredhel is with Eöl less than fully wilingly. (I think Celegorm and Curufin do known that she’s married to him: Curufin does not seem seem surprised when Eöl calls her his wife, this does not seem like it’s new information to him.)

The second part I have a theory on, based on “Laws and Customs among the Eldar” (from HoME vol. 10, Morgoth’s Ring). The customary ceremonies of marriage were the announcement of the betrothal at a meeting of families of the two betrothed, with an exchange of rings followed by a minimum one-year betrothal period. After that the couple set a wedding date, and at the wedding a blessing was given by the mother of the bride and the father of the bridegroom, and there was a second exchange of rings.

In happy days and times of peace it was held ungracious and contemptuous of kin to forego the ceremonies, but it was at all times lawful for any of the Eldar, both being unwed, to marry this of free consent one to another without ceremony or witness (save blessings exchamged and the naming of the Name); and the unionso joined was alike dissoluble.

Now, Aredhel and Eöl’s relationship is not really the best one to invoke LaCE about, bevause it is the only elf-elf-marriage that we know of that appears to be less than entirely of ‘free consent’. “Not wholly unwilling” doesn’t pass muster now.

But to me this gives a solid explanation of both Curufin’s words to Eöl and Curufin’s actions and inactions. Given the Fëanorean attitude displayed towards the Sindar, Aredhel marrying one of them would likely be taken badly regardless; her marrying some random guy without any involvement of her kin and without even informing them would definitely “be held ungracious and contemptuous.” And in this context, Curufin’s line to Eöl, “those who steal the daughters of the Noldor and wed them without gift or leave do not gain kinship with their kin” (which I have seen called ‘Curufin’s only valid moment’) is specifically anger about this. It is not about whether the marriage has Aredhel’s leave. (If he believed Aredhel’s consent was lacking from the start, I do not think he would have told Eöl where she was going!) It is about the lack of leave from Aredhel’s kin. Obviously the specific ceremonies described above could not have happened in any case, because Aredhel’s mother Anairë was not in Middle-earth, but to me the inclusion of “wed them without gift or leave” clearly indicates Curufin’s mad about Eöl basically “eloping” with Aredhel.

And if those are Curufin’s sentiments, it explains why 1) he does not send people after he to ask her what’s up and if she needs help after his scouts sight her and 2) why he tells Eöl where Aredhel is going. In this situation, Curufin is just as mad at Aredhel about the “elopement” as he is at Eöl. He’s not making an effort to help her. She’s made her bed; let her lie in it.

However, rereading the passage, there is an alternative reading that is somewhat more charitable to Curufin. That interpretation us that when Eöl is first brought to him he isn’t yet sure what’s going on. Eöl says Aredhel and Maeglin went to visit Curufin while he was away; Curufin tells Eöl that Aredhel and Maeglin passed the fords of Aros two days ago and rode west, and then says, “It seems that you would decieve me; unless indeed you yourself have been decieved.” Curufin knows something’s up, but he’s not sure what, and he may not at this point be sure that Aredhel is running away rather than her and Eöl being up to something together, though by shortly after in the conversation he has recognized it (“if you now pursue those who love you no more, never will you return thither”). But I don’t find this reading as convincing, because there’s no line that jumps out at me as the place where Curufin realizes this.

Either way – whether Curufin is angry at Aredhel or mistrusts her – his lack of making contact with her after his scouts sight her seems deliberate, and his anger at Eöl over marrying her does not seem principally driven by concern for Aredhel’s well-being. And given that, again, we have nothing indicating Aredhel was closer with Celegorm than with Curufin, there’s no solid reason to conclude Celegorm would have acted any differently.