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thefirstknife · 10 days

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Hello! Another day, another ask from yours truly. I was wondering what the "first knife" is? I've seen a few people mention it in relation to the shot of the veiled figure holding the shard of glass from the launch trailer, and i've never heard of this in lore. But it sounds pretty important, so now I'm curious. Thank you :)

It's referring to one of Unveiling's pages, called The First Knife. So the easiest and shortest answer is: we don't know! :D

But people have been speculating and trying to decipher it for years, as with all things from Unveiling, which I believe is a little bit of a futile thing to try and do because Unveiling is a metaphorical religious text. Essentially. It's been recently strongly implied that this text was written by the Witness pretending to be something else and using its lies and metaphores to convert the Guardians to its side (Unveiling was first released during Shadowkeep, before we knew about the Witness).

In The First Knife page, the author of the text is continuing with the explanation of, basically, how the universe began, through allegorical language. The Gardener and the Winnower argue about how things should be, the Gardener decides to insert itself "into the game" (the universe?) and this makes the Winnower "discover the first knife." It appears to be an allegorical way of saying that concept/idea of violence was invented, essentially. More under for length:

The Winnower appears to represent a specific concept that the Witness is pushing for which we know better as the sword logic: you have prove your right to exist and if you can't, you will be killed and therefore you never mattered at all. The Hive used this philosophy to eradicate countless of species, and so did the Witness with its disciples. This philosophy of winnowing is something that the Witness' species felt like was necessary in the universe to give meaning to everything that exists; there cannot just be the "meaningless" creation of the Gardener, there has to be a Winnower who will enact the violence and cull those that aren't worthy of existing.

The First Knife in that case would be a sort of a symbolical representation of the winnowing and how it all started. This is also referenced again in the lore book Inspiral, from Lightfall, in the page called Winnowing (last two pages of Inspiral read like a continuation of Unveiling):

It is the winnower that discovers the first knife, but it is not done without the gardener. This, too, is a tradition: a knife does not come to exist without something that must be cut. A woody stem, a colored petal, a vital vessel. The first victims of the blade.

It goes on to end the whole lore book with:

There can be no gardens without knives.

Which to me sounds like an attempt to convince us that the universe cannot exist without those that would do what the Witness is doing. That someone has to winnow, someone has to use the knife to cut things away. And to add to that, it could also reflect this idea that all of life is suffering, that there is no meaning to anything anyone does, that most lifeforms aren't worthy of existing and that a winnower in the universe will makes things better. That the universe should be made better by bringing on the final shape.

Seeing that veiled figure (which may be representing the Witness' species) with a shard of glass/rock (?) that looks like a sharp threatening object (knife?) sparked people's imaginations! It could be a representation of this concept, perhaps, or something completely unrelated. But the appearance of the veiled figures is so interesting because until now we've not had any explanation for them, other than their connection to the Pyramids/Darkness.

Now, at least from the few trailer shots, it seems likely that they represent the Witness' species or that they're in some form connected to that or some other symbol from the Witness' time as a civilisation. We've seen them as statues with the Witness' species and in all Pyramids. Curiously, the one in the Witness' flagship Pyramid appears to be tucked away in a hidden room, as if the Witness did not want it in a place of prominence; possibly signifying its attempt to detach itself from its roots? This is my old post about it before we knew of the Witness' origins.

We might find out some concrete information about the veiled figures in TFS; that would be really cool! They've been a sort of a constant since Shadowkeep and have been the cause of many debates and much speculation! Nothing I said here is in any way conclusive or final, naturally.

In any case, that image of the veiled figure with the sharp object could be a representation of a member of the Witness' species with the first knife, symbolically showing us how they discovered the philosophy of winnowing and dedicated themselves to it so completely that it turned the entire civilisation into this malicious angry entity.

A lot of people are also once again speculating that this could be representing the Winnower, a separate entity from the Witness, similar to the Gardener (Traveler). This is something a lot of people expected and wanted ever since Unveiling was revealed which was always a little bit weird to me because Unveiling openly describes itself as an allegory. A lot of people were disappointed that the Witness was shown as our big bad and some still expect there to be something even bigger and badder than the Witness, which I just don't think would make sense or would be beneficial to anything.

The story of Destiny has always been about choice. Repeatedly throughout every piece of information we've been told over and over that Light and Darkness are tools; they do not inherently tell us anything about their wielders. Using the Light does not make you inherently good, as we've seen from the stories of early Lightbearers; bloodthirsty violent Warlords. And more recently, as we've started learning more about Darkness, it repeatedly became apparent that simply using the Darkness does not make you evil; from the creation of the Awoken, through Drifter's Gambit, and all the way to Stasis and Strand and all the extra information about the Darkness and its users throughout the universe, we've known that this isn't an evil force by default. This was fully and completely confirmed in Lightfall; Light and Darkness aren't opposing moral forces, but the Witness desperately thinks they should be so it shapes itself to oppose the Traveler.

So there being a Winnower that governs all of Darkness which is an even bigger enemy to us than the Witness would just be bizarre to me, because Darkness is not inherently anyone's enemy. It's much bigger than that, as a fundamental force of the universe, as much as the Light is; it is our choice to use it that turns it into what it is. Our choices give morality to our tools, not the other way around. I personally really enjoy this because it creates a much richer world where you can't simply point at a Darkness user and say "evil." Darkness as a force of memories and emotions and history and thought and consciousness is so much more interesting to me than there being some evil Winnower. The Witness misinterpreting this and twisting the Darkness into just being "winnowing" is so much more fitting because it's about choice: the Witness' species chose to do that and they were wrong.

The "knife" allegory fits here as well, because a knife is not inherently good or bad; it's about your choice how to use it. The Witness chose to use it as a weapon.

Obviously, as I said before, none of this is final or complete. And who knows? It's possible that some information may be revealed in the future that turns everything upside down again and maybe there is another entity somewhere. But I'm mostly interested in the stuff we do know, rather than "what if" speculations simply because if we go by that, we could make any option sound true and plausible.

Also, in one of the early lore pieces, a grimoire from D1 which is from the POV of the Traveler, also mentions this imagery of a knife:

The knife had a million blades. And you were giant, powerful and swift. But the knife pinned you. Cut your godly flesh away. ... The knife stole much more than your body.

This is the Traveler most likely recounting the Collapse. The whole "knife" thing has been mentioned a lot throughout the lore, though only in these fairly metaphorical pieces. However, people have been looking into it for a long time and Unveiling turned this whole thing into a big debate and point of speculation. Inspiral reignited it 4 years later and now we also got this brief little snippet from the trailer so everyone is out here losing it and will continue losing it until we finally play. I am honestly hoping that some of this will never be fully explained and that some of it will always remain in this state of almost religious metaphor.

So long answer? We still don't know. But it's something people love thinking about and debating so this is why everyone is discussing it and how it might relate to that phrase, "the first knife." A lot more could be said as well, probably triple the size of this post.

Highly recommend (re)reading Unveiling, but also Inspiral and TFS CE. Unveiling remains my favourite lore book of all time, because to me, it only gains in its brilliance the more people question it. It's such a unique piece of writing that can be a complete lie, a complete truth, or something in between, depending on who you ask. It's a mythology without full context, a religious text and propaganda, possibly with some truth sprinkled in. And we may never know which pieces of the text are which. Perfect.

#destiny 2 #destiny 2 spoilers #the final shape #the final shape spoilers #unveiling #witness #user thefirstknife has much thoughts about the first knife #i also have the unveiling tag where there's a lot of other posts with discussions about stuff like this!#especially after the witness origins cutscene #lore vibing #long post #ask

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icewitcher · 8 months

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Just realized it's been a week I didn't play FFXIV and that after I reach that Heavensward part.

The " A smile... better suits a hero." part in english.

And in french "But you... You have such a beautiful smile... Try to not forget mine...."

Definitively in my top 5/top 10 lines that hurt my soul deeply.

And Alphi and the others doesn't make things easier when they say "I didn't know you were so close/had such a relationship.". Like bitch... Are you trying to make me cry ? Like I don't need to know. I know that Haurchefant was flirty with the WoL but not sure I would be able to handle it if they were in a romantic relationship or a queerplatonic relation so deep that it hurts bc WoL reaction was already hurting me by dropping to the knees and holding so gently his hand with their own so adding this and make it canon ?

It's the killing blow.

Well done Yoshi-P, well fucking done. But also you goddamn bastard. How dare you hurt my feelings like this. Do you want to take away what's left of my tears that Honkai Impact 3rd chapter 25 of main story, "Everlasting Flames" animation, the end of the Kolosten arc, "Thus Spoke Apocalypse" animation and the whole Elysian realm arc hasn't take from me ?

#final fantasy 14 #heavensward #haurchefant greystone #ffxiv haurchefant #I'll miss you buddy #Also note that it take me one week after doing the Vault part and everything that comes with it to post this #I really needed to cope with it before to post my feelings and reactions about the cutscenes #Alphi and Aymeric to WoL: I'm sorry to know that Lord Haurchefant was your SO #Me: Who allowed you to hurt me like this ? Who allowed you to reveal this in the aftermath of the Vault ?#WoL: Reject Red Mage and Dark Knight return to Dragoon to kill the ex leader of Ishgard and his knights.#Especially the knight that took away a bright smile early.#Special mention to Lord Fortemps reaction that made me understand that this really happened #and that his son was truly gone #And then they drop that Aymeric his the arcbishop's son #I was like WTF !? Ishgard is really that fucked up !?#What's next ? Cid is going to die ? We won't be reunited with the other Scions until Stormblood ?#Leaving character development to Wol Tataru and Alphinaud ?#Estinien being a half dragon and half human in a biological way but he grew up with his human/Elezeen parents ?

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