#game theory kin

[hazyaltcare]

An aesthetic board for a Matpat (Game Theory) kin with themes of technology, chaos, and Five Night's At Freddy's.

Mod Haze (🎮Greyson)

[littlebittyhollowbugs]

Here's why I believe the vessels do infact possess the ability to speak! (It just doesn't come so naturally to them!)

So we know that the void corrupting their bodies is what supposedly destroyed their ability to vocalize themselves "No voice to cry suffering" as the pale king would say. I have multiple sources of evidence to suggest this isn't entirely the case!

1- the king was wrong about the void, and specifically the way it would effect the vessels, in more ways than one!

"No mind to think" and "No will to break" are both clearly and blatantly untrue and sort of the point of the whole game.

Both the hollow knight and Ghost are shown to posses strong wills, and individual thoughts and desires.

2- the pure vessels cut dream nail dialogue!

It's not "can not speak" it's "do not speak" Which implies that it is very much possible! (and also I wonder about the implications of pv thinking this in particular? I know it's cut dialogue but still.. very interesting.)

3- the collector!

The collector is not only a void being but more of one than any of the vessels, who do posses bodies of Wyrm and Root.

it is most likely a Kingsmould, or was one originally at least. And does not have an actual body of its own.

So the only other void beings in the game (the Kingsmoulds) are confirmed to posses the ability to speak. How this came to be in the collectors case is unknown but it certainly came to be!

I don't see why it would be impossible for any vessel to be able to!

[chrisrin]

in stars and time is ruining my life what do you mean i'm at 28 hours played and still don't seem to be near done yet when the average person on howlongtobeat finishes the main story in 19 hours, and with side quests in 26 hours.

what do you mean i've stayed up until 4am the past 3 nights playing. what.

[bornetoblood]

LOOK LOOK ON THE TOPIC OF DEPERSONALISATION IN BLOODBORNE.

I think it's very very interesting that both the process of becoming a beast and ascension requires some sort of loss of identity. With beasthood it's obvious. You forget, your sense of self becomes your desire to hunt and your body changes into something unfamiliar. There's even the slight implication that grief can exasperate the development of beasthood.

But then to get closer to the Great Ones, you need to do the same thing. The mensis cage makes reference to a loss of identity, the choir all wear the same garb that obscures their features. the simple act of ceremony associated with the Healing Church and its rituals plays into that theme of depersonalisation, of becoming part of a monolith.

It may genuinely be one of the reasons Yharnam is so xenophobic. Both the Choir and beast patients are characterised by the covering of their eyes!!!!

BEASTHOOD AND KIN ARE THE SAME THING!!! YOU ARE CHANGING INTO SOMETHING UNRECOGNISABLE!!!!

The Old Blood CAN and HAS BEEN used to ascend!!!!!!!

[redactedkin]

[INTERACTIVE POST]

It doesn't matter how smoked and crazy it sounds, it doesn't matter how little sense it makes as long as you have proof: Tell me your theories (in reblog) of TMP and its history, its characters or whatever the game itself is.

No shadow [REDACTED] please. (I'm sorry, I hate this theory, ghost or something like that, it's fine)

[bethanysmiled]

My roommate is William Afton kin

[verdantmeadows]

Sorry for not liking the N is a Zoroark theory I just do not like it when autistic-coded characters are compared to animals <3

[wawhii]

Is this a trans thing, is this a delusion thing, is this a fictive thing. Fuck, is this a kin thing?

I have no idea why being Nerevar makes me so unbelievably happy but like. This is euphoric. I feel like myself. Gotta figure this out somehow...

[nagaruru]

people see the most obvious death flags and go "man [obvious death flag] was so cool! it's a shame that [character] didn't live longer because I wanted to see more of [obvious death flag]!" like how do you miss the fact that what you're obsessed with is literally what signaled that they were going to die. my sibling in christ we are playing the people die game.

[linalilia]

I've watched a few videos for MILGRAM now! So how about Haruka, Mahiru and Yuno for the character bingo? :0

YOU REALLY GOT ALMOST ALL MY FAVES HUH..

haruka. OH GOD HARUKA. man. many thoughts, i have many thoughts about this guy. i'm gonna be honest, when i first heard about him, i was like "ah. so he's just a sad boy with mommy issues. okay." I ALSO THOUGHT HE WAS THE "PROTAGONIST"?? I REALLY JUST IGNORED ES DJDKSDLGJFD. so yeah, i wasn't that interested in him at first and even disliked him because of the animals part. as someone who has many pets that part made me a bit anxious but as i learned more about him.. yeah. yeah, i actually like him. STILL WANT TO PUT HIM IN A SALAD SPINNER. I JUST THINK IT WOULD BE NICE. i watched his second drama with eng subs recently though.. i really sat there like "my boy, i ordered your acrylic figure and it's supposed to come soon. and you dare to disappoint me like this??" MY MOM ACTUALLY JOKED ABOUT ME PUTTING HIS FIGURE IN A CORNER WHEN IT ARRIVES TO "PUNISH" HIM 😭😭 okay, okay, it wasn't really a disappointment, but.. yeah. this guy is literally the "look, a little guy!! oh, he's a bit fucked up actually.." meme.

YUNO. GIRLBOSS. i love her so much, she's so pretty and she's such a good character!! her second mv really shows how well-written she is.. the aesthetic of her mvs is so good too.. her acting like this carefree and cheerful girl, but her real personality being much colder and her feeling empty inside.. WOW. and her saying that she doesn't need a reason for her actions is actually so interesting? like usually characters immediately go "okay, here's my tragic backstory, forgive me now please" in situations like this, but yuno really went "i don't have a reason. and even if i do, why should i tell you" OKAY QUEEN. IT'S YOUR BUSINESS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO SHARE WITH US. BUT there's this one moment, i feel like i should've picked "canon isn't real" for her too.. i love yuno as a character a lot, but at the same time.. if her crime really is what most theories say (and i think it was confirmed in the second drama, if i'm not wrong), then it kinda makes her case a bit boring? like we have characters who did really interesting and TERRIFYING crimes, but then here's yuno.. and she didn't really do anything wrong? i don't know much about how her case would go in japan, like is it legal or not, but still, i doubt that she should be in a place like milgram for that. tbh i really wanted her crime to be something completely different maybe a "black widow" type of character, haha.. because it would at least explain why she's here.. but if her crime really is not that special, it turns out to be kinda underwhelming in my opinion :( so at the same time i REALLY hope that people are gonna vote her innocent because she does not deserve to be voted guilty at all, but also.. it just doesn't feel right, like THERE MUST BE MORE. like yuno's case is not that bad at all compared to other crimes, IT'S NOT EVEN A CRIME, so what is she even doing here? anyway, i love her, yuno really wakes up every day and chooses to slay and i love that for her.

MAHIRUUUUUU. MAHIRU. I LOVE HER. SHE'S GOOD. of course someone who made an oc like allen and so many other similar ocs would say that listen, i have a weakness haha get it like haruka's mv for characters who have big sister energy, characters who are obsessed with the concept of love AND i love characters with the same hair color (even though she's not really blonde.. i think. she does look blonde in official art, but her hair color is a bit different in her mv?) SHE REALLY GOT THE WHOLE BINGO. i love her character so much, she's so goofy 😭😭 but also those moments that make you feel like she's kinda.. trying to repress the memory of her crime in a way.. yeah, those are good. like mahiru acts like such a silly character who's always like "anyway do you have a crush on anyone? <3" but when someone asks her about her crime, she's like ".. ah, yeah, i guess i did do that". i can relate tbh. about the fandom being mean, I DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE GUILTY VOTE AT ALL. even if those theories about her are correct, i still don't think she should suffer like this? haha thank you kotoko.. like it's a hard pill to swallow, but it must be said that i doubt mahiru did those things on purpose and her face in the end of that mv really says that. HER COVER OF PSYCHOGRAM THOUGH.. y-yeah, i'm not sure what are they trying to do with her, like is she really supposed to be a yandere or they just want to make us think she is one. anyway, i'm a mahiru apologist <3

[lakeofthesocknessmonster]

a lot of people are hating on Chaos' new design, which fair they lost the "eldritch-god-before-creation" energy but I actually love the new design and I think it's 100% telling a bigger story however I don't have enough brain power rn to articulate fully the "new era" thought process I got going on

[prokopetz]

Star-spawned

A game of tentacles and self-discovery, for 3–5 players

One unearthly night, a ray of colourless light descended from the stars, and under its warping radiance, creatures unlike any the world has ever seen were born. They do not know the world, and they do not know themselves. Unfortunately for the world, they’re quick learners!

What You’ll Need

Star-spawned requires three six-sided dice, a large sheet of blank paper – or, alternatively, a shared spreadsheet or text document – called the Discovery Sheet, and some way of noting the values of each player’s Facets.

Some rules refer to the player to your left or right; if you’re not seated around a table, work out a virtual seating order amongst yourselves before play begins.

Character Creation

Character creation in Star-spawned is undertaken as a group, and consists of two main phases: generating Facets, and assigning Facets.

Generate Facets

Roll a six-sided die twice, reading the first roll as the “tens” place and the second roll as the “ones” place, yielding a number in the range from 11 to 66. Find the corresponding row of the following table, and write down the contents of the first column. Repeat this process for the second and third columns, and arrange the results in order to find the name of a Facet. For example, if you rolled 23, 41, and 31, this would yield a Facet name of “Desmatence”.

Generate a number of Facet names equal to the number of players, and write them on the Discovery Sheet, each in a separate column with plenty of space under it.

11–12. ab | bles | age 13–14. an | cap | and 15–16. bi | cim | ary 21–22. con | dab | ate 23–24. des | dor | dom 25–26. flam | glan | en 31–32. gen | gov | ence 33–34. gro | kin | ess 35–36. jav | lin | ice 41–42. ka | mat | ing 43–44. pur | ned | ion 45–46. re | nil | ity 51–52. sle | nov | le 53–54. sun | quir | ma 55–56. tab | sped | ood 61–62. tri | sib | on 63–64. ven | tin | ous 65–66. war | tog | yle

Assign Facets

Your character begins with a rating of 1 in each Facet generated in the previous step. Distribute a number of additional points equal to the number of players (or, equivalently, equal to the number of Facets). No Facet may have a final value greater than 3. Try to avoid having two characters with the exact same spread of Facets.

Note: at the time that you assign your Facets, you will have no idea what they mean. This is intentional.

Finishing Touches

No human eye may apprehend nor human tongue express what you are. Roll or choose up to three adjectives from the following table to define the impression you leave upon others – your form is otherwise utterly indescribable. Your nameless name likewise cannot be inscribed or uttered; you may amuse yourself by imagining the epithets that will inevitably be bestowed upon you.

11–12. ancient 13–14. bulbous 15–16. cyclopean 21–22. distorted 23–24. enveloping 25–26. fluid 31–32. grasping 33–34. howling 35–36. iridescent 41–42. lurking 43–44. membranous 45–46. nebulous 51–52. oily 53–54. porous 55–56. refulgent 61–62. squamous 63–64. tentacled 65–66. throbbing

Playing the Game

The sole pursuit of Star-spawned is to discover the world, and in so doing, discover yourselves. Play proceeds without a GM: simply describe what do you and ask the group what you see: any other player may answer.

In the course of your explorations, there must come a time when you are not content merely to observe, but find yourself driven to engage in some fashion. When this time comes, you must essay one of your Facets to work your will upon the world. This can be accomplished in one of three ways: Proposing a Hypothesis, Refining a Hypothesis, or Putting Theory into Practice.

Proposing a Hypothesis

Choose a Facet which currently has fewer than three statements written under it on the Discovery Sheet. (Crossed-off statements don’t count for this purpose.) Propose a hypothesis about what that Facet does, in the following form:

“[Facet name] must [up to six words, no more]”

This statement may freely contradict existing statements written under the chosen Facet if you wish; the ways of the star-spawned are ineffable.

Next, roll a number of dice equal to your rating in the chosen Facet, and sum their values. If the sum of the dice is equal to one of the first seven prime numbers – that is, a sum of 2, 3, 5, 7, 11, 13 or 17 – then your unworldly intuition regarding the Facet’s purpose has led you rightly, and the hypothesis is confirmed; otherwise, it has led you astray: either the Facet is not what you think it is, or you’ve employed it incorrectly, and in both cases the hypothesis is refuted.

Note: the statistically astute may realise that the likelihood of rolling a prime sum decreases as more dice are rolled, from one in two with a single die, to two in five with two dice, to scarcely one in three with three dice. This is as it should be; the powerful are often overconfident!

If the sum of the roll is prime, find the row corresponding to the highest single die on the following table; otherwise, find the row corresponding to the lowest single die. Do not re-roll.

1. Unthinkable ruin 2. Vile ruin 3. Dreary ruin 4. Subtle glory 5. Stark glory 6. Ineffable glory

If you achieve glory, the player to your left describes the outcome of your overture; otherwise, the player to your right does. Their descriptions should bear in mind whether the hypothesis was confirmed or refuted: glory as a result of pursuing a refuted hypothesis is likely to take unexpected forms!

Finally, if the hypothesis was confirmed (i.e., the sum of the roll was prime), write it down near the top of the Discovery Sheet, under the appropriate Facet’s column, then add a question mark to remind yourself that it is, as yet, only a hypothesis. Otherwise, write it near the bottom, and cross it out to remind you that it’s been refuted.

Refining a Hypothesis

Choose an existing statement from the Discovery Sheet that’s followed by at least one question mark. Roll a number of dice equal to your rating in the statement’s associated Facet.

Next, you may – but are not required to – discard a number of dice up to the number of question marks following the chosen statement. (i.e., if there is one question mark, you may discard zero or one dice; if there are two question marks, you may discard zero, one, or two dice.) You may not discard all of the dice that you rolled – at least one must remain.

After making your discards, if any, sum the remaining dice.

If the sum of the dice is prime, your understanding of the Facet is deepened. Read the highest single die as your result, using the table above, and have the appropriate player describe the outcome. Then, add another question mark after the chosen statement.

If the sum of the dice is not prime, something unexpected happens, and your understanding of the Facet is transformed.  Read the lowest single die as your result, using the table above, and have the appropriate player describe the outcome. Then, choose one:

Modify the chosen statement on the Discovery Sheet by adding, removing, or changing a single word (observing the overall limit of six words following “must”, of course).

Remove a question mark from the chosen statement.

Finally, if the chosen statement now has three or more question marks next to it, erase them and write a period in their place: the hypothesis is now a theory. Conversely, if the chosen statement now has no question marks next to it at all, cross it off the Discovery Sheet.

Putting Theory into Practice

Choose an existing statement from the Discovery Sheet that’s followed by a period. As you’re falling back on well-understood principles, simply roll dice equal to your rating in the statement’s associated Facet, reading the highest single die as your result.

Concluding the Game

Play concludes when every Facet has at least one statement followed by a period written under it. Take what you’ve learned about yourselves and collectively describe the transformation you wreak upon the world.

[moghedien]

I’m like sooo curious about the Aylin and Isobel after all this because we know they’re going help Selunite enclaves or whatever and I don’t think they’re ever gonna turn away from Selune really but I do wonder if there’s like a twinge of something about their relationship with the goddess now

because again I don’t think they’re gonna turn from her, but they both have their issues and trauma now. Aylin’s is a bit more obvious but I can’t stop thinking about how the game basically tells you that Isobel came back wrong and then never acknowledges that again.

Obviously she didn’t come back as wrong as some of her kin, but the first time we see her she seems ill with something. You can kinda dismiss that as being related to the Shadow curse without full context. Even if you read her diary, you can kinda dismiss it until you understand she’s Ketheric’s dead daughter.

Her diary:

Like she clearly isnt being spurned by Selune completely as she still has cleric magic and can still protect Last Light, but the phrase “there are some things she would never accept in her devoted” is so ominous. Isobel clearly knows that Selune is having some problem with her and the fact that the problem isn’t as clear as being denied her magic makes it even more ominous. If not that, then what is happening that makes this clear to her?

Then there’s Aylin, who is literally the daughter of Selune, who was sent by her mother to the Thorms. And obviously there isn’t any regret there because of Isobel, but then the Isobel dies under vague circumstances that may or may not be Shar related based on cut content. Then the people that Selune sent Aylin to protect cage her and torture her and use her as a lab rat and organ donor and ritual sacrifice over and over again for the next 100 years.

Aylin was supposed to be an envoy of her mother and ended up being the instrument in which Shar made weapon after weapon. She’s unwillingly spreading the darkness she’s against and all because Selune sent her to these people. Literally 100 years where all she can do is die again and again until she can convince one Sharran to listen to her and not just kill her again.

And like, you can also take into account the possibility that Aylin is an oathbreaker now. I don’t personally buy the theory but I know a lot of people do suspect that her reaction to killing Lorrokan was due to it breaking her oath. I think it’s more likely a trauma response but we can look at this either way.

Because killing Lorrokan should have been the righteous move. He was trying to use and defile her, one of Selune’s children, for his own petty reasons. He was going to commit the same sins as Ketheric. And it wasn’t like Aylin was the only potential victim of him. We know he hurt Rolan, and no doubt many others. What would a man like that do with immortality?

But then killing him just makes her feel empty? She protected herself. Protected Selune’s sword and anyone else that might have been suffering under him. And it doesn’t fill her with the same righteous ecstasy that it should. Suddenly being the righteous paladin doesn’t feel good, it just feels empty.

And if you believe that it did break her oath, then what? She’s being punished by Selune for defending herself and others? She stopped Selune’s envoy from being used in the same profane ritual she just escaped from and gets rejected and punished for that? She’s the one accused of violating Selune?

Again, I don’t personally think the reaction was caused by breaking her oath, but I think it’s a compelling angle to look at, at least.

And all of this to say that again, I don’t think either of them are going to turn against Selune and I don’t think they have a very strong reason to. But I do wonder how their relationship with her has changed in the last 100 years while Aylin was being forced to die for Shar over and over again and Isobel was forced to live by Mrykul, completely unprotected by the moonmaiden they had both been absolutely devoted to.

I just wonder what was going through their heads when they talked to Shadowheart about her past and the fact that she has a choice now, that Selune would take her back after a life time of Sharran indoctrination and crimes committed in her name. Now she has a choice. I wonder if in that moment, there wasn’t even the smallest bit of bitterness toward Selune on their part.

[jozlyn-moon]

The Cipher Twins

Ford’s Journal Entry:

(It’s long! And one of the first Journal Entries I’ve gone fully into making!)

“How and Why that devil managed to “conceive”, and I use this term loosely, is beyond me. Especially when it’s taken in mind how careful with planning he chooses to be. But the outcome of two children that share such gains of his power is.. well- reckless, but that does give us a view that he isn’t as on his game as much as he once was, which in my eyes shows as a beacon of hope. Continuing though-

These two have been an eye opening pain in the ass to deal with in all the years that they’ve had to be in my life… and that’s saying quite a bit. From the oddities that sprout from their father’s genes to the oddities that come from each of their unique personalities that stem from their own special quirks, to study them has been an experience. Though, if I shouldn’t lie.. I may have chosen a favorite of the two for one reason or another and even if either manages to get a hand on my writing their opinion would not much matter in the end.

To begin on the first, Lily Cipher, a rambunctious but albeit pleasant kid to be around. An attribute which I could only give thanks to in the mother’s raising of both of the twins which I presumed had fortunately been enough to quell any evil nature that may have been held in her soul. Along with the fact that there had been no contact with the father in her and her sibling’s upbringing. Ignoring that fact- She can be described as a great help around the lab, seeing as age and stress have worn down my ability to keep steady with my motor and cognitive skills… she comes in handy as a shockingly fast learner, but to no surprise really as much as I don’t want to point the praise at where the origin of the ability may have come from, I do have my guesses to who it was passed down from.

She is a very curious and hyperactive child as well, being quite fascinated in the little things and anything that moves, she could only remind me of Mabel in her younger years in the most bitter sweet way possible. I pray for the moment that she’s alright.. but besides that point-

I find that she’s been a large help in also understanding, if not, being able to decrypt the genetics of my enemy, with her ability to shape shift into a form similar to the beings of Bill’s late home dimension, flatlanders as they’re called, she has given key samples of skin and DNA that have properties no normal being can handle nor have. I believe she and her brother are direct keys in Bill’s downfall. And while I wish to be optimistic to the outcomes of their existence at the current time, I do hold dread for whats to come. As while I may have positive outcomes with the more sweet hearted sibling… I have trouble describing the short tempered and snide one as such. Liam is another whole pile of bones to dissect but i’ll get to his summary soon enough.

Lily, and what baffles me the most about her, is how something so, well giddy and sweet by nature, can come out of such a creature that can be so, by choice, dangerously and maliciously evil. But then again, that damn triangle had always had his charms at his hand, so it wouldn’t be a complete surprise if that had passed along to his spawn.

And as much as I want to be paranoid of my enemy’s daughter, seeing first hand her grow up with no influence of her father’s morals and presence due to her mother separating from that devil before either of the twins were born- it lets me ponder on the thought of the nature vs nurture theory and how whether or not natures of the parents pass down to the kin and how much it actual effects their psyche.

Albeit with Lily, she works on her own will with a good moral stand point and natural urge to uplift others in sometimes slightly odd but endearing ways. Though i’m afraid that it’s her brother that leaves me still questioning the nature vs. nurture stand point, as I couldn’t say the same completely for her twin.

Liam Cipher, a more reserved kid but leaning on socially aloof by choice, is one who leaves me sleeping with one eye open. Literally. Seemingly gained the temper of his father along with a slew of other worrying traits that I would rather not be in the presence of while someone has lit his fuse. He is the sole reason why I had to ban or at the least limit the use of both of their magic to the mundane and simple party tricks after an incident with him that cost me half my sight with a fit he threw when he was younger.

Though as his mother insists to me greatly, it’s not the child’s fault for the traits he was born with, he can’t help himself she claims. And while true to some extents I can’t help but feel the dread towards the thought of another Bill like being sprouting due to the “freak accident” of them being somehow made into existence. From the personality to even the damn voice that the kid shares with himself and his devil of a father, I can’t just shake off the feeling of a tense shiver that always crawls up my back when thinking of him growing older.

The only saving grace, and what calms my already paranoid nerves falls upon the ones I could think have a good hand in quelling those unsavory traits, the one’s I label the family buffers. I.e his mother, sister, and at times the cousins that are there to talk him down out of a potential blow out. I couldn’t even dare muster the thoughts to wonder what he’d turn to if his mother nor his “siblings”, if I could even loosely consider the cousins as such, weren’t there to quell his snappy nature. But for the sake of my cortisol levels, I can’t let those scenarios overcome my already racing thoughts because I have enough to deal with now in taking care of both of the twins that have been enough of a hassle on my growing age.

Liam for the most part has made it clear that he has a distaste for me, I believe sprouting from my coldness towards his mother for being deceptive at the beginning of our begrudging guardianship over the kids. And he places it as if I have no good reason, if it wasn’t clear that I have some bother that hiding the children of that damned demon under my nose with what current family I have left wasn’t something to not be chastised for. Not to mention that her withholding from the implicit truth had allowed me and my great great niece and nephew to harbor an attachment to the twins which if I had known before hand their origin… would not have ended well for her.

But I am not heartless, I do understand the fears that may have accompanied the weight of telling the truth at the time. And I’ve learnt that I shouldn’t be one to not swallow my pride and say I know I would have probably acted rashly. But as someone who freshly lost what family they had left at the time I feel as if it would’ve been just.

I don’t hate either of them, even while one may be more a pain in the ass than the other. I do believe I care for them in some sense. Liam is a help to me greatly, I won’t downplay that factor at all, he’s the one that helps me draw in the newer journal entries and goes out to scout with Chloe to do some cartography of the surrounding landscape. A quirk he seems to be great at with a sense of great direction and keen eyesight, something even younger me couldn’t get down right away. My body can only do so much these days as I’ve already made my point earlier that my hands and even now legs can’t do what they did often like they used to.

He’s smart, more smart than he gives himself props for, he knows how to channel a certain charisma and silver tongue that lets him find the best supplies, of course if it isn’t the case that he had stole them in the first place. And like his sister, there is no second thought to where he got that ability from, but it’s better to not dwell on it, just for my sake at least.

Both are a handful in their own ways, but they have grown on me- and they do hold insight in how we may be able to stop weirdmaggedon once and for all.

And I pray that it can be in time.”

(If you made it down here thanks for reading it! I want to make sure I have Ford’s characterization down to some extent 😭 My grammar may not be all that great but I tried lol)

[crowhunterzz]

i know it’s been said on here plenty of times but i genuinely get so upset when i see people continuously perpetuate the whole “Gehrman’s a creep and the Doll is a sex object theory” when there’s an actually direct in-game evidence showing that none of that is true. and yk what despite the posts abt this that already exist i am, in fact, gonna make one of my own.

Okay so first off, The Voiceline. You know the one.

Yeah this line got interpreted by a portion of the fandom as weird, especially because of the tone it’s said in. However, there are two pieces of context that immediately show what he meant by this.

The first, is that you DO use the Doll. She provides a service for you by taking your blood echoes and turning them into your strength (the level up system).

Aside from this, the ability to talk to her, and the option of giving her an item, there is nothing else you can do with her, and nothing else the game even implies you can do with her. She does not even have any truly “romantic” dialogue. She mentions that she loves you, but that she does because she was created to do so.

She loves all the hunters because her purpose is to care for them, and in her words, embolden their sickly spirits.

The second piece of context is in Gehrman’s dialogue just before he says the line about the Doll.

He is telling you that anything you find in the workshop is a tool you can use to strengthen yourself and make the hunt easier. He is referring to the Doll as a tool, because she is one of the few the workshop has not lost. He’s not sexualizing her, he’s talking about her like she is a tool, and something to be used, not seen as a person.

Is it a good thing? No, but considering he resents her for not being what he created her to be (or by another interpretation, coming to life when he never intended her to), it’s not unreasonable to assume that over time he would just categorize her as a thing instead of a person.

The second piece of evidence towards this god awful theory is the Doll’s white blood. Honestly I cannot believe people genuinely take this as being semen, because not only is there a canon reason for creatures to have pale blood, but also it’s just disgusting.

You need a minimum of one insight to see the Doll during the game, she was given life by the Moon Presence following Gehrman’s placement in the Hunter’s Dream, and she bleeds pale blood. She’s kin. (Yes I am aware the game does not consider her kin in regards to whether or not she can be dealt damage based gems that alter your attacks vs kin, but you’re not supposed to be fighting her anyway, and it’s not like you need a bonus to kill her in the first place).

And finally, to address the other big point, the item descriptions that appear on Maria’s Hunter Garb and the Doll’s Set.

I would like to address first, the obvious, that Maria’s garb says directly she was “unaware of his curious mania” (however you interpret that), but the point is she was unaware, he clearly in life, never made advances on her (which is something I’ve seen a few people state is ‘implied’???).

The second, and this one is a bit in the subtext, is that the Doll seems to not have any idea that Gehrman ever had any positive feelings towards her at all, she expresses a love for the hunter in a way that reflects someone who was never shown love in any capacity (likely due to the circumstances surrounding her achieving sentience), so its reasonable to assume as well that she was entirely unaware of the ‘curious mania’ as well.

Additionally I would point out that while referencing Gehrman’s mania once more, the Doll’s description also directly states that she was once loved and cared for, something that changed after she gained sentience. She likely served as a memorial for Maria, considering there is no canon evidence Maria herself actually has a grave.

The grave that provides the Old Hunter Bone may be hers, but the item description refers to the hunter it came from as “he.” This could be due to it being placed there prior to the decision to give Maria the quickening skill in her boss fight, or it could be that Maria did not have a proper grave for whatever reason, and thus the Doll was needed, which could then relate the obsession to an obsession with Gehrman keeping a memory of her, as there is nothing else he seems to have of her.

Everything here aside I would like to also point out that the Doll is quite literally, a doll. There is nothing that would even suggest she would be capable of any sort of sexual relationship.

Especially because even before the Dream, the Doll did have a specific purpose. She seems to be modeled after Victorian mourning dolls, which were items used to help families/loved ones process grief, typically of children, by having something to remind them of the deceased that did not itself look deceased. If you consider the grave in the Abandoned Old Workshop to be Maria’s and know that that’s also where the Doll is in the waking world, then that’s probably what she’s for. Or as stated before, the grave may NOT be hers, and the Doll itself IS her grave.

Another thing I didn’t point out but will, for a moment get into, is the Doll’s clothing being feminized. A lot of people take this as Gehrman being a misogynist and sexualizing her in a more feminine way as if he himself was not training Maria (and likely other women) to be hunters during his life. He encouraged the less feminine life she lived as a hunter!

That point always confuses me, especially knowing that one of the last things Maria likely said to Gehrman was what she said after the massacre at the Fishing Hamlet where she threw away her weapon and renounced the hunt, choosing to retire (and potentially become a caretaker for the Church’s patients, judging by her role in the Hunter’s Nightmare). Like OF COURSE he dressed her like that, she expressed that she no longer wanted to be a hunter so he made her the opposite. The only reason she is dressed the way she is in the Hunter’s Nightmare is because that is how Kos is depicting her, not because it’s her conscious choice.

The point of this is, Gehrman is one of my all time favorite characters alongside Maria and the Doll, and while yes, I am well aware he isn’t perfect, it’s still frustrating to see him get so mischaracterized by a fandom who insists they love lore so much, and care about the tiny details. You can dislike Gehrman or think he does shitty things and that’s fine, but creating a story where he’s a creep just to prove you care about Maria and the Doll is weird. And it’s weirdER that people argue IN FAVOR of the theory as if it MUST be true, because honestly why would anyone even want it to be???

This post also was specifically done without consideration for whatever type of relationship Gehrman and Maria had according to canon or any interpretations. Essentially I’m not necessarily saying any of this has anything to do with whether or not you ship them, I personally don’t, but I know some people do, and I feel like on either side you can still be critical of this Doll theory, as it is entirely baseless.

(In case anyone is interested, the images and references used for this were from the Bloodborne wiki, specifically this one.)

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(POST THAT NEEDS ANSWERS, IT DOESN'T GIVE MUCH ABOUT THE THEME OF [REDACTED] BUT IF IT IS ABOUT TMP, THERE IS POSSIBLY A SPOILER ALERT!)

Guys you already know that I run an account where I provide [REDACTED] content, but I need to clear my doubts with this thing: Why do many out there mention the "original TMP host" or portray it as if the TMP host is not the Same as TMP2 being that they are the same person? Is there something I'm missing in the lore?

This left me even more confused with the theory that Despair (The pink doll from TMP) survived being "grandma's despair knife" and that she supposedly married "the host original"... I think I'm missing something, I need answers!

Azhu