#grapehate

[okkramapokja]

ur an ugly fucking grape ����🫒🫒🫒

i was eating grapes in the dark and it fell (in my car)

thats mb yall

[kshithi-and-stories]

Promises vs Morals

Wei Ying breaking of his so called “Twin Pride” promise is something JC stans and even JC himself aggressively hold on to. It is the example they give to prove how JC was a poor fellow abandoned by his brother over a broken promise. JC brings this up as an argument when everything else fails in the Guniang temple. 

Let us ignore the circumstances in which that promise was made. Let us also ignore the situations and arguments that led to this promise. Let us forget about how invalid that promise is and how that promise is always interpreted differently by JC. Let us, for the sake of this argument consider that JC and Wei Ying were good brothers once and this promise was between two brothers. 

So what if Wei Ying gave his promise and then broke it? Are promises more important than innocent human lives? Which is more important? Breaking a promise or saving lives? And was it only Wei Ying who broke this promise? It is about the “Twin Pride” and not “One pride and one follower”. If you call someone your brother, then you have his back. It is an implicit promise. If JC had not broken the implicit promise of brotherhood and abandoned his morals and his so called brother, this promise would been kept.  

Many fans seems to believe that JC abandoned WY to save his sect. Fine, let us believe this to be true for a moment. In that case, JC has no right to blame WY for breaking his promise. WY choose to save innocent wens and broke his promise to JC. Similarly, JC choose to save his sect and broke his promise of brotherhood. So, even from this angle, JC should not have any complains.   

Forget about all this. We will only talk about WY breaking his promise. Here, I would like to give an example from one of the greatest epic ever “Mahabharat” from my country. Once there was a prince who was about to be declared as the heir to the throne. He was the only son of his king-father Shantanu. This king falls in love with a fisher woman and wants to marry her. Her father asks for one condition for the marriage: her son should be the next king. In order to save his father from heartbreak, the prince vows that he will never be the king and he will never marry so that his sons will not contest for the throne later.  He also promises to be a servant of the throne instead of a prince.

Years pass by. The fisher woman has two sons and both of them die one after the other. The whole kingdom is doomed without a king or a heir. The prince refuses to break his promise to take the throne. He arranges for other means to have heirs. Among the latest generation of heirs, one is blind, one is very pale, and one is a son of servant. Even though the blind heir is the oldest, his younger brother is made the king. This new king dies soon after. And the saga continues. Everything ends up in a huge war which wipes out the entire continent. 

This is what the Lord Krishna has to the prince who made the vow in the beginning. “When you made your promise, the circumstances were different. When your half brothers died without heirs, you refused to become the king. You refused to break your promise of being a servant and use your strength to usurp the next generation king when he was not doing his duty to his kingdom. It was the common people in your kingdom who suffered in the end. Once your promise was your strength of character. Later the same promises became the chains that stopped you from doing what is right.  What use is a promise when your strength and prowess is not used for the betterment of your kingdom?” Of course, I am over simplifying a lot of things. The story is much more complex. 

But it makes the same point. So what if WY broke his promise? Saving innocent lives and using his powers for the better is always the right choice in the end. 

[crossdressingdeath]

Okay, so I saw this one post about how LWJ has embodied his clan's elitist ideals with reference to how he acts like he's above people (e.g. Su She) as well as his encounter with JC in the woods. Additionally, how he thinks menial labour is beneath him.

I can't tell if this is a criticism of the novel ending because I know some people were saying how LWJ and WWX traveling and doing whateva wasn't fit with their characterizations.

I'm a bit mind boggled right now

...Incredible. Talk about misunderstanding a character.

Okay, to start with the obvious: explain to me how refusing to talk to JC is elitist. I get that it's hard to remember with how the stans whine about poor downtrodden JC (and how LWJ effortlessly outclasses him), but JC is one of the four people in the entire setting who outrank LWJ. LWJ is a great sect heir; JC is a great sect leader. Refusing to interact with someone above you in rank... isn't elitism? Explain to me how that's elitism. Sure, LWJ clearly thinks that JC is scum, but a) he's of a lower rank than JC so really it's not elitism in any way and b) ...he's quite correct, JC is scum in every conceivable way and is not worth the breath it would take to tell him to get fucked.

As for SS... methinks someone forgot how SS a) is a dick and b) stole a bunch of Lan techniques? LWJ didn't talk to SS when he was a disciple because he didn't talk to anyone when he was a disciple, and he didn't talk to him when they grew up because SS was an asshole who stole a bunch of Lan techniques, copied LWJ to a downright weird extent, and then whined about him not paying attention to this random disciple he never met. Like, let's be real here, no matter how outgoing you are you're not going to want to hang out with some rando you barely know who straight up copies you like a creep after stealing a bunch of your family's shit and then whines about you, a guy he barely knows, refusing to be his BFF. Like, that's just not how people work.

Also... sure, LWJ doesn't do menial labour as a general rule. He's a sect heir. I doubt he thinks it's beneath him, because LWJ isn't the type and the fact that he doesn't do it doesn't mean he thinks it's beneath him, but yes, he doesn't do menial labour. You know who else doesn't do menial labour? Every other major character in the damn novel. Except the Wens and JGY (and even then only when they're not in affluent circumstances). They're nobility! If you want a story about the people doing the laundry and mucking out the stables, those stories exist! But that's not this story. This story is about the elites. If you're going to argue that Lan "going wherever the chaos is and being famous for defending the innocent in situations where no other powerful cultivator will bother" Wangji thinks menial labour is beneath him, then all your faves think menial labour is beneath them too. Just saying!

[flautistsandpeonies]

Jiang Cheng: I’m not helping you. Kill this infant, that old woman, all these disabled people, and burn this corpse or you’re not allowed back in YunmengJiang.

Wei WuXian: Guess I’m not allowed back in YunmengJiang.

This Fucking Fandom: Wei WuXian is SO SELFISH, he doesn’t think about anything other than having fun and playing the hero!

[sad-weiying]

gods grant me patience

[deistarr]

So tired of all the people who seem to think that WWX should be grateful to be abused by JC, because apparently abuse is his love language so that makes everything okay.

[wangxian-trash-001]

I see sh*t tagged with

"Jiang Cheng deserved better"

And it's goddamn post-cannon

and I just...

[ladyhuntress1213]

I think most of an certain toxic abusive grapes issues stem from an lack of size/girth in the pecker department. And his behavior is an way of compensating for that.

[brydeswhale]

Caught up on that stupid fic I’ve been complaining about and, wow, big surprise, Jiang Cheng still gets to treat all his loved ones like shit and never gets called on it, amazing, wow, great writing.

[arsenic-magpie]

hii ヾ(＾∇＾) did you end up finding any fics abt jc being asshole. i saw ur post in grapehate tag and i am Looking

hi! sorry it took so long. unfortunately there’s not a lot of anti jc fics that i could find, but here are a few that i really liked.

Twin Treasures by @crossdressingdeath

If Wei Wuxian Did Not Exist by Anonymous (disclaimer: i haven’t read this one yet, but I heard it’s good)

Not This Time by Marinelifeclub

these are mostly focused on wangxian, but they’re also very anti jiang cheng. if anyone else has any recs, feel free to leave a comment :)

[flautistsandpeonies]

Anytime I see a “Jiang Fengmian favored Wei WuXian over Jiang Cheng” take I have to laugh, cause it’s literally one of the dumbest things you could say.

JFM:

-Apparently bought WWX new clothes after he found him, but couldn’t be arsed to check if his shoes actually fit him.

-Let WWX be whipped with Zidian, a first class spiritual weapon. He gets whipped for something as stupid as not wearing a shirt on a hot summer’s day.

-If his wife doesn’t whip him, then forces him to kneel in the ancestral hall for hours until he gets home late and lets him out.

-Willingly lets him walk into a hostage situation, saying “It’s his choice”.

-His last words to him were literally an order to take care of his son.

The nicest things JFM has done for Wei WuXian other than taking him off the streets are: -Sending away the dogs -Paying his tab with the vendors at the end of the month

Comparing that to eight years of his flesh being flayed off, and you think he favors this boy?

One has to laugh.

JC Stans Don’t Clown on my Posts

[crossdressingdeath]

The biggest nonesense in mdzs fandom is the fact we have to tag things 'grapehate' or 'anti-jc' when talking about JC (THE CANON ANTAGONIST) in a not favourable. Maybe it's the fact that I've been in just few fandoms so I'm kinda inexperienced but it's just so bizarre to me

Yes! It's so wildly bizarre! When you're talking about how a character is canonically undeniably explicitly a serial killer in the story you should not have to tag it as negative towards that character! They're an antagonist, that is the point of them! It's like if I had to tag posts as "anti Hannibal" whenever I mentioned that he eats people! Why do I have to jump through hoops to avoid being screamed at for saying an antagonist who wanted to murder a child because WWX decided saving him and his family was more important than being JC's pet genius is a bad person!

Like, I don't technically have to use a separate tag? I could use the main JC tag if I wanted, and even if the JC stans weren't Like That but he was still super popular for some inexplicable reason I probably would still use a separate tag to be polite. But the fact that I have to use a separate tag if I want to avoid a bunch of (let's be real here) probably mostly children screaming in my asks about how I'm a horrible person for saying the canonical mass murderer maybe isn't a super nice dude who deserves better is... not fantastic, I'm not gonna lie.

[kshithi-and-stories]

Lan Yuan and Jin Ling

You can see the difference between Lan WangJi and Jiang Cheng in the way they brought up Lan Yuan and Jin Ling. I am sure Lan Xichen and Jin Guangyao also influenced these kids which again acts as a contrast. 

Both Lan Yaun and Jin Ling had childhood traumas. But Lan Yuan is well adjusted, calm, and assertive. He takes charge when situation calls for it. He is a natural born leader. He never judges people. He is open minded. He respects others. He has strong morals and ethics. He is someone who Wei Ying would be proud of. On the other hand Jin Ling is a angry all the time, judges people, treats people who are beneath him very rudely and aggressively.  He is a closed minded individual. 

Lan WangJi never let his grief of losing the person he loved affect Lan Yuan. He honored Wei Ying’s memory and he helped common people. He did not close himself. You cannot deny his influence on the next generation of Lan disciples.  On the other hand JC stewed in his own hatred and treated the only son of his sister like crap. He disrespected his sister’s love and memory. 

It is very telling the way Wei Ying observes these two kids before he knew who they were. He compliments the person who raised Lan Yuan. He is very impressed by this Lan kid. On the other hand, Wei Ying is not at all impressed with Jin Ling and his attitude and his show of wealth on a night hunt. 

[flautistsandpeonies]

Wei WuXian left Jiang Cheng all alone with a sect and a baby!! 😢😤😡

Jiang Cheng told Wei WuXian to put a toddler and an old woman back in a labor camp and when he refused demanded he kill them with his own hands.

Jiang Cheng disemboweled Wei WuXian in a supposed “staged fight” and then told the entire cultivation that Wei WuXian had declared himself their enemy.

Jiang Cheng watched the woman who sheltered him and gave him medical aid burn to death and then went to Nightless City to pledge to kill everyone she cared about.

Jiang Cheng helped plan and then lead -bringing the largest number of fighting forces- the siege to kill what he new was a bunch of non-combatants, and then desecrated their bodies by throwing them in the blood pool.

Jiang Cheng tortured people who reminded him of his martial brother for thirteen years, and when his actual target was resurrected tortured him with his greatest fear.

JC Stans Don’t Clown on my Posts

[crossdressingdeath]

I always feel uncomfortable with Yunmeng Bros reconcilation fics, because they (almost) always ignore everything that happenned between WWX &JC and demand from WWX to take 'The Older Brother' role (or in reality go back to being a punching bag)to JC and put up with everything JC throws at him and just no. WWX has been through enough and now that he is happy, he has to go back and put up with all this shit? No, thank you.

The wildest thing about WWX being shoved into this big brother role where he has to coddle JC and let him do whatever because JC's the baby is... JC is only younger by five days. I'm two and a half years younger than my sister and she doesn't let me get away with jack shit. They're grown-ass men! Even if there was a substantial gap between them it wouldn't have any real meaning at this point, but five days in practice means approximately fuck all. JC acting like a child does not make it so. And people really overestimate how much siblings are willing to put up with for each other if they think WWX should just tolerate what JC puts him through.

And yeah, every Yunmeng bro reconciliation fic I have ever seen or heard of basically boils down to WWX doing all the emotional labour while JC is dragged into the bare minimum decency level known as "not trying to murder anyone" kicking and screaming and the narration treats WWX like a monster for wanting to... you know... leave his abuser behind and live a safe, happy life with a family that loves him and treats him well. You know, super unreasonable things.

[flautistsandpeonies]

When you really think about it, Yiling Laozu is only really possible with JiangSect!WWX & JinSect!WWX cause their leaders both are willing to commit genocide and YLLZ only came to be cause WWX fights injustices such as that.

If WWX was brought up in the Lan or Nie sect, Lan Qiren, Lan XiChen, Lan WangJi, and Nie Mingjue would be the ones who would go up the burial mounds to talk to WWX after he free the Wens.

LanSect!WWX would end like:

Lan Qiren: I raised you to be righteous and to always fight against evil. While you have your faults, you- is that a child?

NieSect!WWX would end like:

Nie Mingjue: How could you! We fought against Wen-dogs side by side! You were like my brother! And now you sit there and stand arm and arm- is that a fucking child!