#hazbin theory

[short-wooloo]

"Great Alastor altruist died for his friends"

The look on Alastor's face when he says that

He looks haunted, shaken, disturbed, and horrified by it

I've been joking about Alastor accidentally-ing himself into caring about the other characters

But on some level, it seems that it did happen

And he HATES it

It terrifies him

Perhaps it's because Alastor understands that on some level this proves him wrong, sinners are not beyond hope, there is a chance to be better, and that's bad for him because it's easy to revel and wallow in being an evil monster when there's no hope of being anything else, but when there isn't, well, that means Alastor might have to face who he is and what he's done

Alternatively, Al wants to be a horrible monster, feared hated and infamous, and if he becomes some kind and benevolent person, even to just those he considers friends, it's a chip in his reputation and the persona he wants to be seen as

Or perhaps Al's breakdown is because if he cares about anyone, then that's a weakness someone can exploit, another string holding him back, something he's desperate to not have

[imp-imp-im-a-simp]

Okay, we have overlords of mass media: Alastor for radio, Vox for television and Velvette for social media.

BUT

You know who is missing here?

There is that one mass media that is still a massive thing, but people often forget about it's existence.

And it is newspaper.

I might get into a history of newspaper, thou I'm not gonna pretend I'm an expert. Just, newspaper at it's most primarily version is a very old thing.

So old that if there was an overlord of newspaper, they might be the oldest overlord in Hell.

*Cough cough* Zestial *cough cough*

Silently pulling all the strings from the shadows, like a spider weaving its web.

Giving informations radio, television and social media will take as true and publish them as their own.

Yeah, if we had an overlord like this they would be hella powerful.

And it would be a bit funny if they had a hat giving journalist vibes.

[susspence]

WHY IS NO ONE TALKING ABOUT LILITH?!!?! HER FACE BEING GRAYED OUT!??!?! HER TAKING CHARLIE AWAY FROM LUCIFER?!?! ALASTOR BEING ON A SO CALLED LEASH AND GONE THE SAME AMOUNT OF TIME AS LILITH?!?!

[maxiemumdamage]

I realize we’re probably supposed to feel threatened, or at least worried, that the Vees are all ready for a power grab, but I’m…not.

Like, we just watched Carmilla and Rosie — aka the supplier of Angelic weapons and the apparent best information broker in Hell — clearly cement themselves as being on Charlie’s side. Alastor might have gotten his ass kicked by Adam, but he still held his own for a good while. Besides, Adam was clearly the strongest person in Hell at that point except for Lucifer, so it’s hardly a humiliating defeat. And considering the other Overlords already there are his friends, we can expect Zestial would probably jump in on the project just for kicks.

Compared to all them, the Vees…aren’t exactly a threat. They can’t do shit if Carmilla refuses to sell to them, and while she’s the least invested in the Hotel of all the Overlords involved, I do think she’d draw that line if she thought it necessary. Business is clearly a secondary priority compared to family for her, and I’m suspecting her daughters might end up being some of the Hotel residents since it’s a good place to stay safe.

And even without that, uh. Lucifer. Lucifer who just kicked Exterminator ass for all of Hell to watch, Lucifer who just demonstrated to the public how much he cares for his daughter and how brutal he would be to anyone that threatened her, Lucifer who is the literal king of Hell and will now be staying at the Hotel.

To throw Vox’s words back in his face: they’re gonna die. They’re gonna fucking die.

[anthurak]

Something I think is very much worth considering when analyzing the oppressive, classist societal system we’re seeing in Helluva Boss, most notably in the latest episode:

Satan is not really a ‘tyrant’ in the way I think a lot of people have started viewing him as. At least, he’s NOT some ‘usurper’ who has ‘seized power’ in Lucifer’s absence and now ‘rules with an iron fist’ with no one powerful enough to stand against him. For one, I think it’s pretty clear that this position as the ‘Lawman of Hell’ is a role that Satan has always held, even before Lucifer left.

Rather, let’s consider the fact that while Satan might be the one enforcing this oppressive system, he is FAR from the only one supporting or BENEFITING from it.

We have Mammon, possibly Leviathan, and basically the ENTIRE Goetia royalty who are clearly in FULL, enthusiastic support of this system.

Meanwhile Leviathan and Belphagor (assuming the former isn’t in full support of this system like Mammon) seem to be either too apathetic or too blissed out to really care, which likely also applies to pretty much any ‘not enthusiastically classist/racist’ Goetia as well.

Which just leaves Asmodeous and Beelezbub and MAYBE a handful of Goetia like Vassago who actually DO care and want to do something to help.

Really, I think the ‘vote’ we saw this episode is a clear demonstration of why there is only so much Ozzie and Bee can actually do. They are outnumbered, even among their fellow Sins.

I think it’s not so much that Satan ‘seized’ power in Lucifer’s absence. Rather, without Lucifer there is no one to truly CHECK the power that Satan already has. Sure, maybe a majority of the other Sins might be able to do that as well, but as we see, THAT isn’t happening either.

Satan is not some all-powerful tyrant running an oppressive system. While he may be considered the ‘face’ of that system, he is simply the enforcer of an oppressive system run by many powerful people who benefit from it. With any in power who might want to change things being too few to really do anything about it.

This is why I feel like what we are seeing here is not so much setup for conflict in Helluva Boss, but rather setup for a future plotline in Hazbin Hotel.

Because unlike Blitzo, Stolas or even Ozzie and Bee, CHARLIE is in fact someone who COULD do something about all this.

Even without Lucifer’s help (who I imagine will be indisposed due to other factors for the sake of not making all this TOO easy), Charlie DOES have the influence, charisma and if all else fails the raw strength to actually change things.

Whether by giving Asmodeus and Beelzebub the support they need, snapping/slapping Belphagor and Leviathan out of whatever detached apathy they’re in or maybe just giving Satan, Mammon and the entire Goetia court a brutal ass-kicking.

Probably all of the above.

All in all, I think Satan is a really great example of an antagonistic character who is very much A 'bad guy', but at the same time is not THE 'Bad Guy'. In the thematic sense that Satan is very much part of the oppressive system yet is very much NOT the root cause of it.

And in the narrative sense; both short-term in the fact that Andrealphus is very much the actual 'main bad guy' of this episode, and in the long-term of Satan likely being much more of an antagonist for Charlie in Hazbin Hotel, rather than anyone in Helluva Boss.

[elsa-fogen]

Fallen angels?

Okay i understand why people may think of Crmila being a fallen angel. But Alastor and Rosie? Especially Alastor. There's absolutely no way that he was an angel LMAO. I also don't belive that Rosie can be a fallen angel. Like, come on, it's just her dress. And for angels, especially exorcists, it's just part of their armor! This is so silly

BUT!!! If Rosie is fallen angel it would add such an interesting dynamic to radiorose relatonships. Like........ How would Alastor even react to this? I'm trying to imgine and... I don''t think it would affect their friendship too much? Alastor isn't Charlie lol. But also he isn't Charlie. And Rosie pretty much THE ONLY person he trusts (as far as we can tell). So... That's really difficult to figure out his reaction. I think maybe he would not know how to react to this either! Like, from one side this doesn't change much. From the other side it's a kind of a huge thing to keep in secret.

HA MAYBE HE KNOWS! Like i'm sure they sometimes bite each other unpromted, it's their love language (pretty much like my mom LOL) (ha- now this is my headcanon for Alastor's mom too AHHAHDHAHSHDSAH) So yeah, he bit her once and saw golden blood and was like wtf, and rosie like, ah yeah i'm a fallen angel, but it's a secret don't tell anyone, and alastor's just ok then

anyone else to the pile of fallen angels?

[wjkae]

1. Charlie is distraught and scared for Angel. She’ll likely become increasingly determined to free him from Valentino as the season progresses.

2. Alastor is feuding with Vox. He would love to screw Vox over and potentially reap untold power benefits as an overlord.

3. Valentino is obsessed with Angel. He loses it at any hint of losing control over “his favourite toy��.

4. Vox is functionally in charge of Valentino’s meltdowns. Destabilizing Valentino threatens to destabilize all the Vees, especially Vox.

5. The Vees expressed concern in S1E2 about Alastor making a deal with Charlie in her capacity as Lucifer’s daughter.

6. Alastor has canonically attempted to ensnare Charlie in a soul-binding deal before in S1E0. This is possible despite Charlie’s hellborn status.

All that in mind …

What would Princess Charlie Morningstar, heir to the throne of Hell, be willing to trade away to The Radio Demon for Angel’s safety?

[peachedtvs]

So we all know Valentino and his strange saliva, that pinkish liquid that drools out his mouth

We also know that whenever Valentino kisses someone his saliva is transferred into their mouth too, which is seen in Poison (not explicitly), and when Valentino kisses Vox

Now before Stayed Gone began, Vox is talking with Valentino completely clean

And then right when the song begins, vox emerges again and THERE IS THE SALIVA. VOX HAD A 'Goodluck baby boy' KISS OF ENCOURAGEMENT TO SING HIS DISTRACK

Not EVEN to mention how Vox is seen with his saliva a LOT, like at the end of Poison. LOOK AT VOX WHEN HE SEES ANGEL, his smile drops and he teleports away. He's a jealous lil man like VOX IS SO NEEDY FOR VALENTINO HE NEEDS KISSES ALL THE TIME

I legit bet tv man gets whiny if Valentino doesn't give in too

THIS MAN IS A NEEDY BOTTOM

[silversodas]

Is Season 2 Set Up For Vox To Eat Shit?

I don’t know about you guys but it really seems like everything is set up for Vox to eat shit in Season 2

Like let’s take that weapons deal he was going to make with Carmine and was so sure he was going to land, that he advertised it before he even had anything set up with her

Yeeeeaaahhh I get the feeling she is not gonna wanna work with the Vees thanks to Velvette.

It doesn’t end there. Once Vox finds out Alastor is alive and is still living with Charlie and possibly Lucifer. He is most likely going to try and get in Charlie’s good graces.

Because while he is powerful, he seems to like people handing over power to him willingly (most likely another reason Alastor said no to his partner proposal). But hey in any case, that’s actually a really smart way to do things. Never take the money and run, make sure you can take the money and walk out.

Buuuuuttt thanks to Val that might be a problem

And she may not hold Vox responsible for what Val did to put himself on her black list but Vox is a major control freak. When he hears about Val pissing off the Princess of Hell, potentially landing their image in hot water he might have a come apart. Causing major friction between him and Val, perhaps even causing Val to lash out and brake his screen? And it being a rude wake up call to Vox that he doesn’t have as much control over Val as he thought he did.

[sanguineselene666]

What if it’s not sad and complicated? What if something so awkward and cringe happened between Vox and Alastor that they think only one of them can live?

[falling-star-cygnus]

i wouldn't like- stake my life on this like i would my "pentious watches the other hotel goers sleep because he's working up the nerve to ask to cuddle them" theory but-

what if Zestiel is the one that owns Alastor's soul?

i started thinking about it when Alastor's magic was like- lime green? which on it's own wouldn't of meant anything to me, but it's also the color of the stitches keeping his smile in place

and coincidentally the same color as the stitching on Zestiel's hat

he went headlights the second Zestiel showed up, which only happened one other time when Adam broke his microphone

also, why would Alastor agree to stay out of a fight? He loves drama, he loves picking fights, he thinks angels taste good, and clearly he doesn't mind taunting people stronger than him {Lucifer, Adam, Charlie} -> Zestiel can move by shadow, Alastor can command shadow

"I'm sure you've all been wondering~" "Not really. But welcome back in any case."

Zestiel and Carmilla obviously trust each other more than they trust anyone else, why wonder about their probably most dangerous overlord's disappearance when he can easily be recalled?

now, i don't think it's incredibly plausible or that this has any actual standing; but a lot of it aligns a little too well. after all, what do we really know about Zestiel?

on the other hand, Alastor and Lillith's disappearance align suspiciously too -> for all we know, Eve is the one that owns Alastor

[fan-of-chaos]

So one thing i noticed is that we only see Alastor fold his ears when he is under really extreme duress, literally scared and distressed to such degree that he physically cannot control it anymore.

He probably learned how to suppresses the natural movement of his ears. Most likely because how easy it would make to read his emotions (in the same principle of always smiling to hide his real emotions) and how much of a weakness he sees that as.

Lets look at all the times we was Alastar's ears fold:

The time when he messed with MUCH MORE powerful than him King of Hell and Lucifer shrunk him (I guess???), making him very powerless and vulnerable for that time.

And after Adam defeats him:

And of course during his breakdown:

And there is only ONE SINGLE time we see him fold his ears when he isn't under extreme stress or fear.

Its when he is with Rosie in cannibal town. He is only mildly annoyed there and his ears still fold down. The only reasonable conclusion is that he feels safe enough with Rosie to relax his grip over his own body language.

HE FEELS SAFE ENOUGH WITH HER TO LET HIMSELF SHOW A POTENTIAL WEAKNESS!!!

[mephie404]

Hot take (literally)

So everyone always assumes Alastor is the one with the cold skin in this ship, but I humbly believe it’s the other way around.

Hear me out.

Vox is part machine. He’s got fans, vents, etc. If anything, he’s always cooling himself down so he doesn’t overheat mid designing Voxphone 16.

Meanwhile, Alastor is a deer demon and y'all, deer fur may not be that soft but it's warm and cozy. He probably has this short nice fur on him that keeps him all nice and toasty.

[legumeofknowledge]

Nifty is Eve in disguise

This theory adds onto to a few other popular ones, that being Eve is Alastor's dealmaker under the guise of Lilith, and Eve is the cryptic "Roo." What I propose alongside that, is that she's hiding in plain sight among the hotel guests, and that disguise is Nifty.

Spoilers up to the season 1 finale below:

Evidence:

When you think about her in conjunction with the show's established themes it falls into place: Adam, the s1 antagonist is a misogynist who wanted Lilith's obedience. Eve will foil Lilith; while she's all about hating subservience and breaking chains, Nifty is a parody of the stereotypical 50s housewife, 'likes being forced' and spends her time cooking, cleaning, and obsessing over men. Eve was created from Adam's rib to ensure his next wife would lack the autonomy to rebel. Designed to be the epitome of Adam's submissive ideal, it makes sense Eve would choose a 50s housewife as her disguise, they resonate with her.

The old logo is her face / her and Lucifer's placement on the prime cover.

She collects little pieces of men because that's what she was made from / is enamoured with Pentious in particular because he's a snake. "never leave me again" <- double meaning alert. / "HATED THAT SONG" because she was never offered forgiveness so easily. Not even Charlie catching her in the trust fall is foreshadowing; unlike Lilith who had Lucifer, no one came to her side when she committed the original sin.

The all-female exorcists were made by Adam to serve him. Their masks have horns like Lilith and a missing eye like a cyclops. They're hybrid clones of the two wives that left him. Eve is the only character in the intro whose eyes we haven't seen.

Every large ensemble show has a mole arc and she's the only one with no established goals. It's always the one-note gag characters you should look out for.

There's no confirmation if Nifty made a deal with Alastor. I think Eve is the one who's got him 'on a leash' though he thinks it's Lilith. He lets Nifty follow him around and she plays up the fangirl persona to keep a close eye on him.

It's the perfect refuge in audacity disguise. Acting innocent in hell in suspect. Being an unhinged stalker raises no questions. Alastor himself says he has no idea what tf her deal is.

I made this theory a few days ago but I was delighted to see more evidence in the final episode. See this?

It's elaborate foreshadowing disguised as a gag. She's not just doing this for the funsies she is MAD mad. Vengeance!

Conclusion:

Whether this means she's the big bad or unlikely ally, I can't say. If it's the former, her goal is to be redeemed with the other guests and enter heaven so she can get revenge on everyone else. S1 leans heavily into heaven vs hell so it would make sense for the final antag to be a 3rd party wildcard who wants to burn both sides to the ground for failing her. Heaven casted her out, hell unintentionally doomed her to an eternity of suffering with the fruit of knowledge, then left her.

Nifty be Shifty.

[maxiemumdamage]

Pentious going to Heaven after being killed by Adam already could’ve easily been enough of a curveball. But y’all.

He didn’t appear where the newly-arrived mortal souls do.

We see what it looks when a newly-dead person arrives in Heaven — they’re outside the pearly gates, talk to whichever Saint is working the Reception Desk, and then go in through the main promenade thingie.

Sir Pentious manifested in what seems to be Heaven’s highest offices. Which, in some ways, it might make sense he doesn’t take the usual front door — he’s not newly dead, he’s been in Hell for centuries! And he was a Sinner killed by an Angel, yet somehow still was considered virtuous, which probably puts him in a very odd position. But, physically? His position?

Is in Heaven’s innermost sanctum where the fucking Seraphim who LEAD Heaven are working.

(And sure, it could just have been an aesthetic choice. But it’s not like we haven’t seen Emily and Sera in the outer area of Hell — or that there couldn’t be a similar punchline by showing whatever Saint is on door duty try to deal with this small moral crisis. No, having him manifest right alongside Heaven’s leaders was a deliberate choice.)

What if Pentious isn’t just a winner now, but another Seraph?

If so…it could have some very interesting implications for the next souls to be redeemed.

[anthurak]

So with everything we learned and saw in Episode 4 from Angel, Valentino, Charlie and Husk, here’s a little theory on how the Hotel crew saving Angel from Valentino might play out. Particularly in how Husk’s status as a former Overlord may factor into things.

Because I have a hunch it’s actually going to be Husk, rather than Charlie who gets fed up first and goes out to make a real attempt at getting Angel away from Valentino, given everything we saw between Husk and Angel in this episode. Specifically, Husk aims to lure Valentino into gambling for Angel’s contract.

Now that raises the question of what exactly Husk could gamble with. I see two possibilities:

Option One, Husk full on bluffs Valentino that he still has substantial power as an Overlord and has been hiding it all this time, tempting him with more souls and power. And as we’ve seen most notably in Episode 2, Val in kind of a massive fucking idiot, so I could see him actually falling for this. Essentially, Husk gambles with nothing, save his own soul, for a chance to save Angel.

Option Two, Husk actually gets his power BACK from Alastor. Specifically through fulfilling some mysterious, nebulous condition Alastor set up for him. It could even be that this is what sets up Husk to gamble Val for Angel’s freedom. Alastor returns Husk’s power as an Overlord because he’s curious as to what Husk will do with it now. Which we see, is putting it all on the line again for a chance to save Angel.

Whichever way we get to it, we find Husk in a high-stakes card game with Valentino. And of course, Husk does the classic trope of NOT telling his friends or even the guy he’s doing this for what he’s doing to ‘keep them safe’ and all that. Of course, they do find out. Which will come into play later…

As for the all-important gamble; Husk actually does WIN legitimately against Valentino. However, because Valentino is… well, Valentino he welches on the deal and attacks Husk, and perhaps a recently arrived Angel as well.

Now in the event that Husk was bluffing Valentino the whole time and is actually helpless against a fully-powered Overlord, this would be when Alastor, from afar, actually returns Husk’s own power as an Overlord as some offhand, magnanimous whim. Which of course now allows Husk to actually fight back against Valentino.

What ensues is a full and proper fight between Husk/Angel and Valentino, with all the requisite emotional drama of Angel and Husk admitting their feelings for each other and all of Valentino’s shittiness as a person coming out in force. Maybe like an mlm version of the Bees vs. Adam fight.

However, despite getting his power as an Overlord back, Husk ultimately turns out to not be as powerful as Valentino. Alternatively, perhaps he never gets his power back at all and we just skip to here from Husk winning the bet. Whichever way we get here, Husk and Angel are now at the non-existent mercy of Valentino.

Which is precisely when CHARLIE shows up.

And I imagine what ensues plays out in a flash. Like everyone is only just registering that Charlie has appeared when suddenly everything is on fire. We get only the briefest glimpses, perhaps only in silhouette, of the full-sized horns on Charlie’s head, the great leathery wings coming out of her back and the pitchfork in her hand before she has Valentino by the throat and the mothman starts BURNING, screaming in pain as he is consumed in hellfire.

Basically, I feel that after this episode we are going to see Husk be the one to step up first to try and save Angel from Valentino, given everything we saw between the pair this episode. But at the same time, I think the interactions between Charlie and Valentino, particularly Charlie starting to transform in rage, sets her up as the one who’s going to ultimately put Val down. Specifically via giving us a glimpse at Charlie’s true power.

And I do say glimpse because I imagine the full and proper reveal of Charlie’s ‘Devil Form’ is almost certainly going to be saved for when she’s forced to take on the likes of Adam and the Exorcists, the ones who have been set-up as proper antagonists to Charlie herself.