On top of being robbed of so much Juke content we’ll never get, what I think about alot is how Juke would have been approached more if it went further.
One of the (many) reasons I love jatp so much is it makes me believe their characters are real, that they have background, they have their own goals and ambitions to them, they’re fleshed out.
That moment of Flynn going “my girls got a crush and his name is Luke” and Julie going “what no?! Luke’s a ghost😳.” And Flynn saying “a cute ghost” and Julie giving in and saying “…with a perfect smile☺️” and adding that Luke is “cute air” which implies she has indeed given this Luke crush idea some thought.
That moment of just two best friends talking about the others potential crush like that’s such a good moment bc I genuinely believe that I am watching these two genuine besties just have that kind of talk with one another bc that happens!
Like that moment we have with our friends when they’re like “hey I got something to tell you 👀” or they approach you like “so… umm… I’ve been kind of noticing your behavior lately around this person.” It’s the realistic little things like that which is why I appreciate this show so much.
Julie having the line of “what no! Luke’s a ghost!” Means so much that, on top of acknowledging “hey he’s got a cute smile, and he himself is cute” she also acknowledged “…he is a ghost though…” but then our Julie being who she is (we love her for it) went “but he still do be cute though 🥰” like this is a genuine teen girl in high school having a crush
And then later on when Reggie and Alex bring up how Luke and Julie ooze chemistry (and the way that throughout the show when Julie and Luke are being cute and them, the looks that we see Reggie and Alex give like Juke and then each other is so good bc I genuinely believe like “yeah these boys are all friends with one another so of course they’d react that way to their other friend showing an interest in their fellow friend”) Luke’s like “no come on I have chemistry with everyone I sing with” HE DOES THE SAME THING JULIE DID WHEN THE EXACT SAME TOPIC EAS BROUGHT UP TO HER! (Soulmates your honor!)
Him denying it, like Julie did, implies too that he also had the thinking of “…she is alive though and I’m not” (I mean me personally I feel like Luke didn’t truly realize he liked her until later on even if there were signs earlier, just bc he seems like the kind of person where like music was his absolute everything like even if the Sunset Curve fangirls were always like ‘omg Luke is amazing 😍’, I just get the vibe that he would never really notice the advances towards him bc he is just so consumed in music and that is his whole existence, so when Reggie and Alex see that Luke appears to be falling for Julie it’s a big deal bc they’re probably like “Luke has NEVER shown any interest ever so the fact that a girl has replaced music in his life THIS IS A MASSIVE DEAL”)
And then the moment when they’re on Julie’s porch and she tries to hold his hand but ya know CANT (huge what a gut punched) and then she awkwardly looks away and he’s like “…this is an interesting little relationship you and I have” and they’re just there for a moment just looking and smiling at each other (THEY’RE FLIRTING SO MUCH WITHOUT SAYING ANY WORDS UGH TAKE ME 😩)
I am sat there genuinely believing that these are two teenagers who even though they know they’re not *supposed* to feel a way about each other, they still do. Like that scene is their confession to one another and it’s so sweet and genuine bc in that moment where Julie tries to hold his hand, they’re brought back to reality as to what they are and yet, they can’t help but still like one another and appreciate each other bc of what the other person has changed so much in their life.
AND THEN, that scene in the beginning of the last episode how Julie asks to talk to Luke (and Reggie and Alex immediately are like “oop leave them be 👀 they’re having a moment” being the greatest friends that they are) and they’re both standing there, in each others presence, it takes a moment for Julie to say what she wants to but they’re just two kids who ended up in each others lives and they know they like each other but they know they can’t act on those feelings yet they still just have this love for each other is so enduring and charming. The way Luke tells her “anything Julie you know that” MAKES ME MELT like ugh 😩 their dynamic and friendship has grown so much with each other from episode 1 to like now and it’s so just ugh it gets me
When I think how Juke could have been approached if we had gotten a chance, I would have loved to see the new like “glowing touch” development and how that would impact their dynamic. (I just imagine Reggie just hugs Julie all the time bc he can (he just seems like such a hugger and I feel like he’d give good ones🥺) and Alex also will gives her side hugs (they just take advantage of being able to physically touch her bc they don’t know how long they’re able to do it for with their new ghost development)) I feel like Luke and Julie would just be a bit apprehensive since the hand holding thing on the porch, and maybe their hug was just a one time thing.
Would have loved to see Carlos referring to Luke as “Julie’s boyfriend” (he was there for edge of great and stand tall THERES NO WAY he’s thinking anything of than “the sleeveless one is indeed my sisters boyfriend”) would be extra great too with like Luke being in the room and Carlos just says that and Julie quickly trying to make him not talk about it bc it’s embarrassing 💀 her just being like “Carlos, he’s a ghost” and him being like “…hey with you having a boyfriend are you going to have less time with Dad and I bc you’ll be busy kissing him?” And Julie’s face just goes pale as Luke takes the time to take himself out of room meanwhile his face his like bright red
Would have loved to see when Carrie’s redemption is happening and it’s Julie and Carrie and Carrie’s like “sooooo 👀 I’ve seen how you look at your guitarist” and she immediately tries to shut it down but Carrie is like “Jules, we may not have been that close in the past year and some but we’ve known each other for how long? I can see your tells!”
I just think a lot about how this ship, even though they’re not meant to like each other yet they do and still care about each other, would have been approached more if we got the chance
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okay what i meant when i said that even the copious amounts of blood didn't satiate me in particular is that the dead wife/nemesis thing was never something i was eager to see explored, just because i think it's something a lot of male characters get? to go through? the ooh i'm so tortured someone took something from me and now i can't help but turn into a monster while i'm on this quest for revenge and being smothered by grief ough i might kill them even or others in gruesome ways and then realize i'm still just as empty
because, i think men often feel the role they must take on as a man or as a father (especially the latter) is a burden, a huge one, where they aren't allowed to sit back or let go or forgive to their own and everyone else's detriment.. and i understand why there is demand for the same type of stories or story elements or arcs, and why they work, and this same overall theme can be present in a story where it's dealt with in an interesting way or where there's love and care involved in the writing process and the characters don't feel like "man pain machine #48" and "generic sensitive character who will cradle mr. man pain's bloody face in their hands (when we want to end this arc and show how good and lovable he actually is)"....
idk i'm just saying it's not even a specific problem i have with male characters that avenge their families or seem like they're defined by anger or by a traumatic event, i do think it can be written lazily and that we've seen it so many times it's a bit worn-out now, but i wouldn't be quick to generalize. it's just that, since we've seen this before (and that's partly why they poked a bit of fun at themselves when in rickmurai jack, rick's dead wife backstory was revealed).. to me it's one of the least interesting aspects of rick? and yet it's clearly important to the writers and they felt they had to tackle this part of his character, really emphasize his unfinished business, or treat it like something that must have a conclusion
for me though, rick's brand of fucked up and evil wasn't compelling because something deeply fucked up happened to him and there's a lot to deal with there and that's cool, it was more compelling to me (iirc) Before knowing much about his past. tbh. i recognized him already, he felt real, his worst side was familiar because a man doesn't need a whole event to become controlling and cruel when dealing with his family... social norms and umm systems sort of already operate within the framework of the patriarchy, i think it's built into our collective ideas of society, concepts of gender and family and the rules those come with.. i liked that about rick, that why he was an asshole wasn't detailed, there was no easy explanation for the way that he was, he just was. and every time they chose to drive home that rick's defined by losing his original family to his own alternate self and that he was still chasing this one guy, it was like, well i thought there were so many other components as well to why he turned out to be who he is. i liked it more when it was mundane, because that's what i see around me, that abuse is rather mundane. and i'm much more interested in the harm he's directly inflicted on his current family and how his past might affect his current life, what might haunt him. so i guess i never wanted prime to be taken care of, each week i find myself thinking that i just want it to be rick and morty and their messed up little relationship up close and personal again
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come on there’s gotta be at least 3 sete/vale rivalry appreciators (you me and pedro acosta)!! haven’t seen 2003-05 seasons in full but mugello 2004 alone was so great.
vale and gibernau finished 1&2 on the same podium SEVEN times in 2003, the only ppl who did it more in a single year (since 2000, was too lazy to look back further) were lorenzo/pedrosa in 2012 when they swapped 1&2 places 9 times on the podium.
I love you anon
listen, I know some people need their rivalries to be more balanced than this, but in terms of actual on-track battles it's like. one of the very best this century. (I'm trying to hold back from calling it the best this century but I don't not believe that?) also some might argue that the 1-2 achievement is even more impressive in 2003 than in 2012, given more riders were capable of fighting for wins and the field spread was way less dramatic. sete's 2003 season in particular is so underrated, man's scoring an average of 17.3 points per race, four wins, 10/16 races on the podium, only two races where he was worse than fourth... serious pace plus consistency! out of nowhere!
anyway, here's every notable on-track encounter between sete and valentino, with * to **** asterisks by how worth watching it is for the fight between those two specifically. (for most of these, of course you can find more details in the sete post and the valentino race recs post.) using italics I've indicated which races are available on youtube (or on facebook, in the case of phillip island 2004):
welkom 2003**: the first race after kato's death, and the one where sete secures his unlikely emotional victory. valentino applied heavy pressure on sete in the late stages, but sete stood firm
le mans 2003***: yes, valentino was unlucky when the race was interrupted by rain - but the resulting battle between sete and valentino in the last few laps in tricky conditions is fantastic. multiple overtakes on the last lap and both riders off-track at the final corner
catalunya 2003*: valentino looked locked-on for the victory until he made two mistakes, the second of which has him go off-track and drop several places to hand capirossi the win. vale finds some crazy pace to catch up with biaggi and sete and pass them both
sachsenring 2003****: valentino gets a big enough lead you think it's surely over... but then sete catches him, leading valentino to let him go by so he can study him from behind. a dramatic final lap that prompts a bit of an existential crisis from valentino
brno 2003****: valentino shows up after the summer break with red hair, a determined smile and a mission. this race is a thriller, a proper dogfight between 3-5 riders with plenty of twists and turns - before the whole thing distils into an all timer of a final lap duel
rio 2003*: valentino sticks behind sete for a while, but it feels like he was just biding his time. once he gets past, he pushes hard and pulls away for a comfortable win
sepang 2003*: the match point race, after valentino had run away with the season post-brno. valentino gets a middling start and has to hunt down sete, but once he does he again pulls away
mugello 2004***: MY BELOVED. this is where the momentum in that season really shifts, courtesy of one hell of a chaotic race. there is an excellent sete/valentino duel in this race, but it's far from the only thing going on. all of it's brilliant
catalunya 2004****: a race long duel! I love catalunya duels because so much of it is about tyres getting chewed up and the riders wobbling and sliding more and more. sete's home race and psychologically a very important race... one hell of a show
assen 2004****: the turning point of the relationship! I still FULLY believe this set up everything that happened next, even if nobody talks about this race any more. the fight slaps!! the last lap slaps!! the podium with bad vibes slaps!! valentino in that presser!!
brno 2004*: sete badly needed a win here, and in the end it's not particularly close. the early battle with those two and biaggi is fun, but eventually sete's newly upgraded honda has the clear edge
phillip island 2004****: the first duel post-qatar curse - so these two now hate each other. it's also a match point race! banger of a start, sete is proper feisty here leaving valentino to hunt him down. banger of a final lap too
valencia 2004*: last race of the season - and even though the title's been sealed up, wouldn't it be nice to get a morale-boosting win to take into the new year? at sete's home race too? ah, you know how this goes. the way valentino gets past sete is pretty funny
jerez 2005****: well of course! again, fierce start, and it takes a bit to get rid of everyone else so it's just those two again. the last lap is something special, as is the post-race drama
catalunya 2005***: back on sete home turf!! and sete rides such a good race, he's really doing his very best - except of course valentino is hunting him down again. there's a brutally dismissive quality to this victory
le mans 2005***: edwards streaks off in front until valentino catches him - and vale's content to sit on his teammate's rear tyre until sete catches them both. the race from there is a joy
sachsenring 2005***: another goody! hayden features quite prominently in this one, and crucially valentino never manages to make a break for it. sete leads going into the final lap
brno 2005***: the fun of this one is in remembering it's sachsenring // summer break // brno... and the duel here immediately picks up again with valentino brusquely cutting past sete on the first lap. really makes it feel like sete is trapped in some sort of a hellish time loop... the end to this one is proper CRUEL
qatar 2005***: one year anniversary of that race and of course sete is desperate to repeat his success. the more of these you watch the crueller they get, not least when it really does look like he's built up enough of a lead. melandri also plays a big part in this one
mugello 2006**: you just know how badly sete would have loved to win this (and so did the commentators). entire race is excellent but sete mainly features in the starting dogfight, not the latter stages
phillip island 2006**: this is a chaos bike swap race and there's a lot going on, all of which is very relevant to the title fight. relevant to this post is that sete and valentino end up fighting for the last podium place on the very last lap. their last duel before sete's career was cut short by injury
obviously, if anyone's looking to watch the full sete/valentino story, there's a few more races you'd have to add in like 2004 welkom, qatar and sepang. anyway, this rivalry slaps. hopefully soon a fourth person can be recruited to the cause
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