#how much more can these characters DO for these assholes before they're forgiven???

[praetorqueenreyna]

imagine how much better Nesta's life would be if she didn't sacrifice her power for her ungrateful rat of a sister and her trash mate??? there's a parallel universe where feyre, rhys, and nyx are all dead and nesta is living her best life <3

[mdhwrites]

how do you know a character is too far gone to be redeemed? I know it's partially based on the work itself and what rules it establishes, for one work blowing up planets is something you can work hard on redeeming yourself from and another will have small scale bullying be considered murder and how much we sympathize with the character committing the acts but I know it's more complicated than that. How far is too far?

So you essentially pointed out the problem with even asking this question. Whether a redemption works or not is entirely context dependent, even down to the person viewing it. Like if one person believes in excuses X, Y, and Z for redemptions but another only believes in A, B, and C then these two people are going to have vastly different opinions on what too far is. One might be that any murderer is irredeemable. One might make it that you cannot be redeemed if you kill innocents. Another might have it be that it's only once you do it with malice.

So... What does an author do about this? Well for me, I think the question is less "What line is crossed where they can't be redeemed?" and more "Where is the line where I'm writing someone who is nuanced to someone who is a caricature for this setting?" So long as evil is not all they are, redemption to someone is likely to be possible and you can breadcrumb the way to that redemption. Once you have someone who kicks a child over, takes their candy and lights them on fire while gleefully laughing, you have probably dropped any pretense. Even Unikitty, a show who's boundaries are almost non-existent, has Master Frown still do mostly things that are annoying instead of actively cruel so that he is still redeemable because genuine cruelty might be where that's starting to go too far, even as he laughs in glee at making people, well... Frown.

In a romantic story, it'd be the moment when a character fakes the fact that one of the love interests is cheating on the other because they are doing something anyone would know is wrong and would only be done by someone with zero human empathy. In a martial art's movie, it's the asshole who pulls a gun during what is supposed to be a fair fight. It's the mafia stooge who targets family. Stuff that any sane, normal human being would feel revulsion at even the act of doing it... They do it without caring. If they feel remorse, are pressured to do it, etc. like that, or even did it long ago but have changed since then, they can still be redeemed but when you have them, in the present, without a second thought, perform actions that anyone would tell them they're a monster for... Yeah, no one in your setting is going to let them be redeemed short of a heroic sacrifice.

Because that last line is the important one. What can a character get away with before the people in the setting themselves would consider them some sort of monster? Because your story is playing by its own setting, logic and ideals and so the irredeemable characters in that story have to actively go against those, not just our modern ideas of right and wrong because, you know... Fiction. It's not our world.

And as a writer, that's what you need to focus on. If you want to redeem a character, you have to make it so that whatever they did CAN be forgiven in story. The act they commit to try and make up for what they did before has to somehow be equal or even bigger than what they did previously. This is also why there is a point at which death is the only way for them to make up for what they did because they have been so horrendous by the rules of the story that only the ultimate sacrifice can even attempt to balance the scales.

So long story short: Don't worry about what your audience will find acceptable. Remember that for a redemption to work, it must be believable in universe and that will shift between stories, or even between chapters, and that that's what's important. Those are the people the character wronged after all, not the reader. See you next tale.

======+++++======

I have a public Discord for any and all who want to join!

I also have an Amazon page for all of my original works in various forms of character focused romances from cute, teenage romance to erotica series of my past. I have an Ao3 for my fanfiction projects as well if that catches your fancy instead. If you want to hang out with me, I stream from time to time and love to chat with chat.

A Twitter you can follow too

And a Kofi if you like what I do and want to help out with the fact that disability doesn’t pay much.

[narrativelysignificantturtleduck]

1, 2, 3, & 25 for Pakku?

1. Why do you like or dislike this character?

i kinda dislike him. i think i've said this before but the unlikability of his character really stands out when you compare him to sokka and jeong jeong. sokka is a sympathetic character before he gets the sexism knocked out of him - we see him defend his village and act older brother-ly to aang at the southern air temple. we want him to change and we believe he can bc he's got good traits. meanwhile the only thing we know about pakku besides his sexism is that he's a strict teacher who belittles his students. jeong jeong is a strict teacher too, but he explains his views on fire early on and later we see what happens when aang doesn't listen to him. there's a reason why he acts the way he does. pakku's strictness isn't justified or even explained, so it's just a negative quality that makes him unsympathetic and makes his transformation seem kind of hollow. he insults all his other students and tells katara she's special and it makes you think he's giving her preferential treatment bc he wants to bang her grandma.

the easiest way to fix this would be to show him being a kinder teacher after katara kicks the sexism out of him, maybe show him cutting himself off from saying a nasty comment and reframing his critique more positively. also, show other women in the waterbending classes, so it doesn't look like he only made an exception for katara.

2. Favorite canon thing about this character?

making him more likeable could make his character arc stronger (because his transformation wouldn't come out of nowhere) but him being such an asshole is what makes katara's fight with him so powerful. her rage feels so real and understandable, it's satisfying whenever she manages to make him fear a little. it is so righteous and cathartic for any woman who's had to deal with a sexist man (all of them) and i wouldn't change it for the world.

3. Least favorite canon thing about this character?

like i said, i don't like that they still show him being an asshole after his transformation. showing him become kinder would tie together his character traits. he pushed away someone he cared about because he was sexist, because he believed she and all women were beneath him. now that he regrets that, he makes an effort not to treat people like they're beneath him.

25. What was your first impression of this character? How about now?

i disliked him and didn't really buy his transformation. it felt too easy and i didn't think kanna should've forgiven him. now, i realize that as a fan i maybe shouldn't just act like an older native guy is so unworthy of redemption and instead look at how his redemption could've been better written.

honestly i respect you so much for liking him. he's not MY grumpy old man but i stand in solidarity with all grumpy old man enjoyers

ask game

[lovecatsys]

okay I don't expect anyone to rb this but u can if u want this is just a lil mini rant abt David now that I've read Academy X

When I first started reading New X-Men I was like huh this is Not the David I know but now that I've gotten through all of his major character development I think I really Get where Gillen was coming from with him and think he actually got David right. I don't agree with David being attracted to Teddy or Colossus even though Gillen seems to think that's his Type (it's not, his type is asshole speedsters lmao. Kieron, could you by chance be, projecting? Mayhaps?) and like. If I was going to make any of the OG 12 queer I would have done Brian, the most obvious answer, but he got killed off too quickly for that to happen lol. But it's okay because David is a bi icon now and we love that for him.

I do find it a little strange that he and Tommy got along so well at first after what Nori did to him, but hey, who's to say he didn't even realize how similar they were? and given the long time period between YA 2 and when Tommy and David were confirmed to be together, I think it's safe to say that David may have forgiven her, or at least gotten over her enough to overlook the similarities between her and Tommy by that time.

But yeah... since then the only thing I've really liked for David was Gillen's Thinkfast pride story and the voices infinity one focused on Tommy. The rest... it's either crumbs where they're just reduced to "Nerd boy and asshole bf" or its... Williams' X-Factor.

The biggest problem, obviously, with X-Factor was the Hatecrime. That was not Leah's story to tell, and of course it's been so long now that if David gets to be big in anything it's unlikely it will be acknowledged. Which it SHOULD BE. Now that she did that, we HAVE to acknowledge it in his story because that isn't something that David should just be able to walk away from. Ignoring it or pretending it didn't happen, at this point, just isn't okay.

My other main criticism with Williams' David is that, well... along with many of her other characters in this book, he's pretty much reduced to a memey, one dimensional, fragment of what he has been in the past. He's "Distinguished bi nerd boy" which... that has never been David, that has never been who he is.

I think David working in investigation is very interesting and obviously his powers are very useful for that, but I wish we could bring back David working in combat, because friendly reminder, he has the fighting skills of everyone he's ever come into contact with, even when he had lost his powers, after the Cuckoos gave him everything back, he could fight like fucking Wolverine, he had all of Kitty's ninja training in him. and now he has even more than that. He's incredibly skilled in hand to hand combat, and he's also just, beyond useful and powerful in so many ways.

Anyways. to wrap this up. Idk how long Gillen is going to stay with the X books but I wish he would write David again. I wish David was in something big, or long enough to be interesting, I wish he was on a team, maybe even leading a team. He was such a great leader for the New Mutants Squad? He didn't even have powers or the knowledge he had before losing them when he helped his team take down FUCKING NIMROD??? HELLO?? He should be so much more relevant than he is right now.

[saemi-the-dreamer]

I hope it isn’t too much but:

1, 7, 8, 12, 16, 18, 25

It can be any fandom :D

Thank you very much! I think I'm going to go "fandom general" or what comes to my mind spontaneously then :D

Now, let's get down!

The character everyone gets wrong

Two characters come to mind for this:

Nadia from "The Arcana", and Kristoph from "Apollo Justice".

Okay "everyone" is an exaggeration of course, but most of the popular takes and characterisations I stumbled upon don't seem right.

Nadia is way too often softened and shown as this Goddess who can do no wrong although her whole premise and route (partly) says otherwise!! And even the creators and narrative go and write how nothing is her fault and everyone quickly forgives and loves her even though it doesn't make sense! Nadia is a wonderful, very interesting character, but her flaws are way too often overlooked!

Kristoph, just like Godot, suffers from the bad English translation (or rather interpretation of the translators and players) and gets a lot of hate for it. Is almost always written as an abusive brother/lover and a sociopath and his black psyche locks get swept under the rug as "his paranoia" when it's obviously not! Canon gave an explanation for what these locks are, stop finding excuses because you don't want to see that Kristoph is actually more complex, not so rotten as you'd like to!!!

7. what character did you begin to hate not because of canon but because how how the fandom acts about them?

Not "hate" but... I really got fed up of these two at one point:

While I've calmed myself about Sans and (fortunately) started finding more satisfying fanwork with him, and less multi-universe Sanses who are the creators and absolute core character of the story didn't you know; I'm still salty about Elsa, and not just because of the fandom, but also because of how CANON. The blatant favouritism and neglect of Anna because of that bitch her gets on my nerves so bad!!

And while I don't hate or despise, I am getting saltier with this one when it comes to how fandom portrays his relationship with Phoenix:

Don't get me wrong, I still like the character, but my enjoyment of WrightWorth has dropped quite a lot lately because I am SO SICK of how fandom is most often making Phoenix the "irresponsible one", ridiculing him and his traumas, or worst! Like, if these people are biased AF for Edgy and projecting on him; then I must say that I relate a lot to Phoenix, especially his experience with that letter, yes THAT ONE! DO YOU HAVE ANY FREAKING IDEA OF HOW HARD IT IS TO RECEIVE THIS KIND OF MESSAGE FROM SOMEONE YOU CARE ABOUT ONLY FOR THEM TO JUST THEN WALK BACK AND ACT AS IF NOTHING HAPPENED?!!! I had a similar experience in the past and IT STILL HURT THINKING ABOUT IT!! And stangely, if you look up with tags like "Edgeworth critical", "Edgeworth salt" or anything where you want some catharsis or just see if there's a story where Edgy's mess catches up to him and he isn't miraculously forgiven or anything and he must live with the consequences? Like many fics do with Phoenix, where he's either an asshole or authors insist on how "his actions are CONSEQUENCES!!", but there ARE NONE (to my knowledge!) for Edgy?! At best, it's a "the wrongs are shared"; Phoenix can get some bashing, but Miles cannot. How is that, I wonder...

8. Common fandom opinion that everyone is wrong about

In general: when a character isn't good at school, or interested in it or something like that = they're dumb (and vice versa). No, JUST NO! Just because someone doesn't get good marks or doesn't like school doesn't mean they're stupid or won't get anywhere in life, that's just plain propaganda we've been hammered for too long! You want a fictional example? Chloe Price - from "Life is Strange; Before the Storm" - loves chemistry and is quite knowledgeable about it, but she doesn't get good grades because she doesn't put any effort into her studies or is bravading. As for her "dumb" decisions and life choices, it's not linked to her academic results, full stop.

On the same category: naive and/or innocent =/= dumb, please!!

12. The unpopular character that you actually like and why more people should like them

I think I like too many unpopular characters to pick one and I don't want to persuade anyone. I just wish people would respect people who have a different opinion, and accept that what they see in a character, others don't but they see something in the character they don't like. No one has to justify why they like this or that.

16. you can't understand why so many people like this thing (characterization, trope, headcanon, etc)

Very salty version of a character or story, while I can get the catharsis aspect and use a character as a mouthpiece sometimes, pushing it so far that said chara is unrecognizable and just gratuitously mean/rude to others? Nope.

The "Y character was raped/sexually abused by X" with basically nothing in canon to support that theory. Not everything is about sex! And it's mostly used as an excuse to pile more traumas on a character, but then they never explore or really address it afterwards.

The "homewrecker" fake friend. I know fake/bad friends can be interesting to work with, given how it can affect someone (both irl and fictional), but I'm freaking tired of seeing girl/woman being reduced as petty and whose ultimate goal is to steal the MC's bf/fiancé. (Even if I admit that there are stories that have this trope that I like a lot, mostly because it's well-developed and has a good contest for it!)

18. It's absolutely criminal that the fandom has been sleeping on…

Princess Peach's origins!! Where are the theories?! Any story? Any concept for her parents or family?! And I'm not just talking about the movie! I remember seeing people having theories about Rosalina being the future daughter of Mario and Peach, but what if the two were (distantly) related another way? I mean, Peach has special powers no one else has in her world, and is very close to the Stars in general, what if one of her parents (her father in my HC) was from the Stars?

25. Common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

In Miraculous: "Chloé deserved redemption and it was robbed from her."

Even without taking season 5 into account, no. She didn't "deserve" it. It would have been nice and/or interesting, but Chloé choosing not to change or change for the worse could be interesting too.

Do I have a problem with the writing of the show in general? YES. With Chloé, even if I'm not a fan? Yep. But I'm sick of people whining and going on about how everything would have been better if she had been a heroine (reminds me of Malfoy in HP fandom) and saying she's a poor abused baby girl when she's not. Abuse is a cycle, full of various manipulations, and neither André or Audrey used this on her! Unless you mean "abused" as in "suffers for bad parenting/poorly raised from André and negligence from Audrey", which I agree with.

[bughollow]

Tropes

Amazing Technicolor Wildlife: Includes insects and arachnids of all colors.

Argument of Contradictions: In the Pilot Movie, Vespula initially gives Pipi seven days to save Voltara, but Pipi unintentionally argues it down to three.

Animal Talk: The insect characters are all capable of speaking to each other, regardless of their species, but never talk to humans. It's explained that they're actually Talking Animals, but they speak at a frequency which human ears can't pick up due to them being so small.

Asshole Victim: Although not killed, Venix gets repeatedly pummeled by Vespula's guards and sent to the wasp dungeon at the end of the pilot film.

Big Bad: Vespula's Wicked Advisor Venix, who desires to become the wasp king in the Pilot Movie.

Black Widow: Malia the praying mantis, who mentions the death of thirteen husbands.

Convenient Coma: Lebah is stung by the Dragon in the pilot, putting her into this until Pipi gives her an antidote for wasp venom.

Easily Forgiven: Alderon and Malia are forgiven for their actions in the Pilot Movie.

Feathered Fiend: The owl that nearly eats Pipi in the pilot.

Friendly Neighborhood Spider: Alderon starts out as a bad guy, but becomes more of a Jerk with a Heart of Gold as the series goes on.

The Hero's Journey: The beginning of the pilot film shows the normal life of a bee in Bug Hollow, and then Pipi is forced to leave the comfort of home to save her hive and rescue Princess Voltara, by facing all sorts of challenges. The snowstorm is the nadir of the journey when she and her new friends assume they're doomed, West Tisbury is the "descent to the underworld" and, when they return, Pipi saves everyone in her hive and admits that, while she may be Just a Kid, that's not so bad.

Humans Are Cthulhu: They're initially depicted as alien and inscrutable in the pilot, but they're shown to be rather decent, so more like "Humans Are the Great Race of Yith." For example, Tia, a budding young entomologist, is so impressed by the bug kids working together that she decides to help them on the return journey.

Humans Are the Real Monsters: Implied in the Pilot Movie, when Lebah describes them as unpredictable abominations, but then turned around and averted at the end when the group meets Tia. So humans can be bastards to bugs, but they're not all bad.

Jerk with a Heart of Gold: As pessimistic and brutal as he is, Alderon is a genuinely good guy deep down.

Just a Kid: Pipi gets this from nearly everyone in the Pilot. She later becomes proud of being a "kid", because she managed to Save The Princess despite nobody believing she could do it for this reason.

Meaningful Name: All the bee characters have names for "bee" in different languages.

Mouse World: Bug Hollow, located on Martha's Vineyard, is populated entirely by insects and arachnids. It consists of miniature houses built with Bamboo Technology being the norm, far from the prying eyes of humans.

Never Got to Say Goodbye: In the pilot, Paprika laments leaving home without ever kissing her parents good-bye. When Pipi's new friends are reunited with their families, it's the first thing the young dragonfly does.

Noodle Incident: "…And that's how my 13th husband died."

Ominous Owl: In the pilot film, a very intentionally creepy owl attacks the kids at one point.

One of the Boys: Paprika, who initially has only guy friends before meeting Pipi.

Pilot Movie: The series originally began with a film, which covers Pipi's metamorphosis and her introduction to Paprika's group of friends before being promoted to forager.

The Power of Friendship: On their quest in the pilot, the young bugs discover that in order to succeed, they must work together, which they eventually learn to do.

Scenery Porn: Most notably at the beginning, though the backgrounds and animation are quite lush. Even the spring snowstorm is gorgeous.

Smug Snake: Alderon is so much this. Also Venix in the pilot, before his Villainous Breakdown.

The Stinger: The pilot's closing credits show Alderon and Malia having a pleasant conversation about their lives.

Virtuous Bees: Pipi, Lebah, and most of the hive are goodhearted bees that are proud to serve their hive, though it takes a little while for Pipi to come around.

Wicked Wasps: Averted with Queen Vespula and Princess Voltara. Played straight with Wicked Advisor Venix and his assistant Quix in the pilot, though the latter reforms.

Xenofiction: From the point of view of anthropomorphically-portrayed bugs.

[theheavymetalmama]

Soooo...Jason Momoa told a little kid that Superman wasn't in Justice League because he was dead, DC is making a Superman Year One comic with Frank Miller as the author, they're making a two-part animated movie based on "the Death and Return of Superman," and rumors are flying around that Supergirl is going to be in Justice League. Oh, and the Justice League trailer dropped. Your thoughts?

That’s a lot to take it. Let’s start with the big one. New Justice League trailer!

Sorry guys, still don’t like it. Granted, it doesn’t look as bad as the previous trailer made it look, but it still looks massively underwhelming. Hell, the only character presented I even like is Wonder Woman, because she’s the only one who’s been established.

Well, established in a good movie, at least.

The rest consist of a Batman who belongs behind bars just as much as any of his villains and three other characters we’re meeting for the first time fighting a villain that nobody gives a shit about, which could be forgiven if the characters were interesting but again Batman’s an asshole and we don’t know anything about Aquaman, Flash, or Cyborg yet. And am I the only one who cringed at Cyborg’s line? Not the line itself, but the flat, robotic delivery. Good god, they took one of the most expressive and emotional live-wires in comic book history and turned him into Arnold from Terminator 2, but without the charm and charisma.

I’m also not looking forward the role the Amazons play, which appears to be them being in the movie for the sole purpose of Steppenwolf to kill/mop the floor with them. Yeah, take the place and characters everybody who watched Wonder Woman fell in love with and just wipe them off the face of the Earth in their second appearance. No way there’s going to be any backlash from that!

Honestly, I could write an essay’s worth of things in the trailer that irked me, but topping that list are these lines from Batman.

“Superman was a beacon for the world. He didn’t just save people, he made them see the best parts of themselves.”

Let’s forget for a moment that Superman has only been in two DCEU movies and you can count on one hand how many times he was shown in a heroic light. Let’s forget for a moment that Man of Steel and especially Batman v Superman spent more time hammering into audiences skulls that more people in this world are afraid of Superman than there are people who see him as a hero. And let’s forget for a moment that this Superman has spent more time feeling sorry for himself than he ever did being the symbol of hope the movies tried and failed miserably building him up to be.

Let’s instead take into account that these lines are coming from Batman. Oh yeah, Superman totally brought out the best in people. That’s why after the disaster in Metropolis, you took a deep breath, composed yourself, and reached out to him to see what he was really about before jumping to conclusions and-oh wait, no you didn’t, you obsessed over him for over a year and decided to straight-up murder his ass, you fucking hypocrite!

Seriously, what the fuck, WB? You spend two whole movies shitting on Superman, the people who love him, and his legacy, and now you’re trying to save face by saying that he brought out the best in people when you’ve only shown the BAD things that happened because he exists? Fuck off. No, seriously, fuck right off. You have to EARN that shit, which you fucking didn’t because you killed Superman before anybody could connect with him and threw the entirety of “The Death and Return of Superman” right under the bus in the last 20 minutes of a Batman movie! I honestly don’t know what’s worse. That Batman is being portrayed as a stupid and hypocritical murderous asshole, or that said stupid and hypocritical murderous asshole is leading the team that Superman is supposed to be the leader to!

Ugh, FUCK everything! But let’s move on, shall we? Frank Miller is writing Superman: Year One.

The very idea of Frank Miller writing any solo-Superman story makes my skin crawl. The fact that the same guy who turned Superman into Ronald Reagan’s personal attack dog who can’t read and raped Wonder Woman is retelling Superman’s origin story? Ugh. Just thinking about that makes me feel like I need to jump into a swimming pool filled with bleach and then get buried up to my neck in rock salt!

Let’s all just put aside that Frank Miller is a racist and misogynist scumbag who hasn’t written anything good since Robocop vs the Terminator. Let’s instead take into account that the man has been writing comic books for 40 years now and has written Superman several times, and every time he’s portrayed him as stupid, boorish, and incompetent while going out of his way to have Batman humiliate him in some way, shape, or form. Yes, I know, Miller has said that he actually likes Superman and only wrote him that way because the story was from Batman’s perspective and that he actually regrets writing him as a government tool, yeah, I don’t fucking believe him. He’s had dozens if not hundreds of opportunities to show Superman in a positive light and he’s never done it. He’s never done it before, so why would he now? The only time Superman has ever been portrayed with any semblance of who he actually is in a Frank Miller work was in Dark Knight III: the Master Race…you know, the one book in the series that Frank Miller didn’t write! Oh, but he wants to write part IV, so great, he’ll get to shit on Superman one more time before he either retires or his diseased liver and STD-ridden body do him in. “Oh, but Katie, he has cancer!” So? He’s still an asshole!

Well, that was grim. Let’s talk a little bit about Jason Mamoa telling a little kid that Superman was dead.

Okay, in the interest of fairness, I don’t think Mamoa had any malicious intent. I’m sure he was just caught up in the moment and wasn’t thinking straight, especially when he apologized to the same kid during an autograph signing that followed the panel. It was still a dick move on his part, but whether or not he gave it some thought, his fellow cast members told him “dude, that’s a little kid,” or his PR guy said “Look Mamoa, Warner has done a fine job of alienating Superman fans all on their own, they don’t need you helping. Now if you want to shrug off being typecast as an uncouth barbarian you’d better stop acting like one and say you’re sorry!” I’m glad he realized it was a dick move and took it back. I’m sure the fact that WB still wants to convince us that Superman is really dead wasn’t helping either. Speaking of which…

The Death of Superman and Reign of the Supermen are getting animated adaptations.

I have very mixed feelings about this one. On one hand, this was one of the stories I said deserved a faithful animated adaptation. Yes, some aspects don’t hold up anymore, but they can be worked around. This is also not the first time the story was adapted, as “Superman: Doomsday” was what kicked off the string of animated DC movies. But it was also very watered down and may as well have been called “Superman: the Clone Saga.” So the fact that they’re making a two-part animated adaptation should be good news…

Having said that, let’s get real. If they genuinely wanted to make a faithful adaptation of ‘The Death of Superman,’ they would have already. I can’t shake the feeling that the only reason it’s even being made is because Warner and DC realize that shoe-horning Doomsday into the end of BvS only succeeded in alienating Superman fans and they need to save face, not helped by the fact that the last animated solo-Superman movie they made, Superman Unbound, came out in 2013. Everything else since then has been either a Justice League movie or a Batman movie. Oh sure, Superman was in some of them, but the only one where he had anything resembling a leading role was in Justice League: Gods and Monsters…the alternate universe story where Wonder Woman is from space, Batman is a vampire, and Superman is the son of General Zod and his capsule lands on the US/Mexico border right as some refugees are crossing because apparently the writers felt that Superman being an alien just wasn’t quite on the nose enough.

Now I know what you might be thinking. “Okay, so maybe they didn’t make it as soon as you would have liked, but they’re making it anyway so what’s the problem?” The problem is the possibility that they’re making this not because they want to or feel that it’s a story worth adapting, but again just so they can save face for those of us Superman fans who felt alienated at the conclusion of Batman v Superman where the entirety of the story was boiled down to “Lex Zuckerburg creates Nuclear Man 2.0 and Superman gets stabbed to death at the end.” And a movie that nobody wants to make tends to be a movie that nobody wants to see.

That’s to say nothing of the fact that DC animated movies…well, they just haven’t been very good lately. Ever since their Flashpoint film, the movies have ranged from okay to outright bad. Justice League: War sucked, Son of Batman was obnoxious, Assault on Arkham was good but not great, Throne of Atlantis was a snooze-fest, Batman vs Robin sucked, Gods and Monsters was okay, Batman: Bad Blood had a good movie in it that was bogged down by the writers putting Batwoman’s story on the back-burner and insisting Dick and Damian arguing had to be on the forefront, Justice League vs Teen Titans could have been good if they didn’t put the least-interesting character Damian Wayne center-stage for no goddamn reason, Justice League Dark was hot garbage, Judas Contract was lame, and the less said about The Killing Joke the better.

In short…I hope it’s good, but given previous movies and the circumstance, I’m not holding my breath.

EDIT: Forgot about Supergirl apparently appearing in Justice League. I hope she kicks Batman’s ass. It’s long overdue somebody took Batman down a peg and I can think of worse motivations than “You got my cousin and only other member of my race killed,” as well as providing catharsis for Superman fans given he landed a grand total of two fucking punches in the title fight of Batman v Superman. Other than that, I don’t really care. Her inclusion can’t make the movie anymore troubled than it already is.