#i also had this issue when I was in any kpop fandoms

[legendoftherisingtide]

is it some weird asian politeness instilled in me that i don’t like calling characters by their first name? like for western characters its fine but like when calling someone by their first name or a nickname is important, i cant bring myself to do it.

like girl you aren’t even real why am i so caught up on the fact that i dont know you personally so i shouldn’t be calling you a name you haven’t allowed me to call you.

[reflections-in-a-critical-eye]

I feel like this conversation is a bit played out, but I’m curious: do you think JK’s banking on winning a Grammy and potentially getting out of his military service? I’ve tried to take their words for what they are and I know everyone’s said that they’re all going to the military, will be back in 2025, yadda yadda, whatever. I can’t understand why, if that’s the case, they’re banking so much on his solo career if he’s just going to disappear from the scene (physically) for almost 2 years. Do you get what I mean?

My thoughts are that they are actually hoping for a Grammy and subsequent deferment of mandatory service, but then again, nobody knows so I guess we’ll have to wait and see how it all plays out.

As this is only speculation and might as well not happen, let me bring my own contribution. I don't think this is about Jungkook and I'll explain why.

If you look at this entire issue from the perspective of the artist/idol, you'll realize soon that you're stuck, that you can't explain why he's doing this or that. But looking at it as a business deal will shine another light on it.

Yes, Jungkook is leaving to do his military service soon and everything he said up until now points to that so why are they investing so much into making him a "global pop star"? Because Hybe and Hybe America need to show that they can do that. That their strategy is one that works for future business. Why do you think they tried it first on the most versatile of the BTS members, the one that can do any song because he has the voice needed for that? This wouldn't have worked with Taehyung or Jimin. God, I'm so happy it didn't work with Jimin because it would have been horrible to see all that unfoulding. Besides, they had projects on their own and without making any contribution to the song writing, Tae's album was still something that matched his personality, it was him with the help of MHJ.

With Jungkook, the situation is different. I wouldn't know the details, but when they announced their hiatus, it looked like everyone was set on releasing an album, including JK. And then, most likely, life happened. Because you can't plan your state of mind. And when you're under a contract, you do need to listen to other people. I know army always uses the shares in Hybe argument, but the value allocated for the members is insignificant on a larger scale. Yes, they are rich and they can do what they want and sleep on a wlive, but I don't think for one second the company would have let Jungkook do nothing and be a couch potato.

So they found this opportunity. You also have to keep in mind that Hybe paid a lot of money for Scooter's company and then what happened to him? Most of his artists left? So where is this big opportunity for collaboration and projects and all that?

This is just business. That's it. They chose the idol capable of being a blank slate and stuck the concept of global pop star on him. Because that's what it is which is incredibly funny (not). Usually that accolade comes after some time, when the results can be seen over a prolonged period of time, but in this case, that was the starting point. As much as Bang wants to get rid of the k in kpop, they're still using a kpop strategy, that of making an album based on a concept or creating a specific image for an idol.

And now they are pushing it hard. They are investing a ton of money into this in a way that makes them look desperate and I think that in the industry at large, people see it. Not the fans because they either choose to turn a blind eye or their mind doesn't go that far. There are voices which have said a thing or two lately among army, but it's an insignificant minority. The company can rely on the fandom to buy all those 284836521 versions and remixes and they will eat it up. And voila, look at how Hybe produced a global pop star in less than half a year. Quick, open the catalog for some songs that sound mediocre enough for a top 40, make the singer record them asap, fast, done in less than one week. Quickly come up with some generic argument of how this is just to show the artist's vocal range (good job PR for that one, jesus) and then also openly admit that it was made for a Western market, aka US cause the world stops there.

Jungkook had the possibility to show more personality of his own when he was with a group of six other people than with his solo album, which is so ironic. But that is because it is not his album. He's merely a vessel through which Bang and Scooter can show investors that they can invent a global pop star and fast while their pockets grow bigger and bigger.

[akookminsupporter]

It's incredible frustrating to see the narrative shift from " mhj doing illegal shit with hybe having literal proof of it" to " apparently hybe is now in a cult and bts is at the center of it because reasons"?? Mhj dropping names left and right and getting their respective fandoms riled up against each other but more importantly against bts because we all know kpop fans don't care about anything else other than bashing on bts :) we have literal fans of disbanded groups crawling out of holes to try to insert themselves into this whole mess just so they can make a tweet about bts when their groups haven't been active for literal years. Saying bts paid their way to the top but then they kept saying bts will never succeed because they can't even afford to pay their producers.. so which is it :) I've met a lot of people in my life but nobody was as fucking stupid, dense, ignorant and sometimes borderline racist as kpop fans. And I know our fandom does the same and I'm not saying we don't have people like that. But holy fuck. Kpop fans are truly some of the stupidest people on earth.

BTS shouldn't even be in this mess in the first place if it wasn't for mhj name dropping them and admitting that shaman story. It took me a long time to realise that it was indeed a true story and not just some fabricated story because holy fuck who in their right mind does that. We literally had everything from accusing them of every single possible thing that is known to men to bighit going to court for them just because some people can't accept the PAST 10 YEARS. Like these hate campaigns are literally insane and if everyone could just take 5 seconds to think about them, we wouldn't be here: I mean imagine if Taylor swift or Beyonce or Coldplay had to go to court to prove that they didn't do illegal shit. But because it's BTS everyone just dismisses it with "oh they are very famous it's to be expected" and moves on. Meanwhile it's not to be expected and it's literally insane that some people are running these hate campaigns against 7 real life existing literal living breathing people and so many people don't even bat an eye.

Apparently the k-gp is siding with mhj rn because the overworked and tired office workers resonate with her sticking up to her boss - while she's also a literal CEO and reportedly has been horrible to her employees? Okay I guess.

I have my own problems with hybe and bighit and bang pd, I have A LOT of problems with them so I don't want to sound like someone who is siding with the company, but holy fuck can we just get back to the main point? Which is mhj doing illegal shit ?? And leave BTS and le sserafim and seventeen and txt and I don't fucking know who else out of this? I'm not even a fan of any of them and I have half of their fandoms blocked for stupid shit but they have nothing to do with this issue and still get dragged into this.

I sincerely hope bighit sues everyone.

THIS IS CRAZY? And why is BTS ALWAYS THE BAD GUY?! WTF?

Im so fucking tired of Kpoppies 🤬🤬🤬🤬

[stormblessed95]

https://www.tumblr.com/stormblessed95/735173163757010944/as-a-straight-army-if-jikook-hypothetically?

*feel free to not post if you don't want to start issues 💜*

i really do want to be nice bc feeling excluded is a real thing and it sucks, and i'm hoping that this anon is actually being genuine

but hearing cishets whine (sorry but it sounds like that) about not being included in queer spaces is beyond hilarious and annoying

As a straight ARMY if Jikook (hypothetically) would ever admit they are, or were a thing, I would at once be happy for them, but at the same time get a bit jealous, coz then queer ARMY would try to gate keep them like anything.

Queer fans can be rather possessive about queer celebs I have seen. I kinda get why they would, but still..

bts has always been for for anyone and everyone, but ok 🙃🙃

i'm hoping you mean that queer army would make liking bts/jikook a "queer only" thing and not us (queer armys) protecting them when they live in a conservative HOMOPHOBIC country where they can get thrown in prison for having same sex relations during military enlistment, being an "issue".... pls tell me that's what you mean 😐

bc having to deal with kpop stans and armys (yes some of y'all are fcking disgusting pos) being homophobic and transphobic towards jimin is already hard enough while he's closeted (if he's queer/bi), i don't even want to think of how bad it'll be if/when he comes out, especially adding in the locals and gp (and when jimin is literally south korea's sweetheart....)

then with the amount of "straightkookers" and y/ns, if jk is queer/gay it's going to be BAD

and if jikook are actually dating.....

also considering we've literally just had to report and email to protect the members (jimin especially) about people being homophobic and using their (bts') country's outdated and horrible laws for enlistment to harm or hurt the members, kinda want you to stfu

Queer ARMY already say BTS just for girls, gays and theys and they are mostly joking. But if Jikook or any BTS member for that matter were to come out officially, these wont be jokes.

y'all are allowed to make thousands of straight ("his wife/girlfriend") jokes about the members, but god forbid queer people have fun

and i'm sorry but YOU (anon) are the majority here, yet you're scared queer fans are going to "bully out" the straight fans 😭😭

BTS, especially the members who come out wont be considered as those with universal appeal, but be promoted, touted as queer icons instead.

as they should 😌

also plenty of queer celebs and artists are still loved by cishet fans

Straight fans who now participate as ARMY equally with non het fans, would now become "guests in a queer space/fandom)".

EQUALLY????

the amount of times i've been attacked bc i suggest a member might be queer (not even shipping related btw), the multiple stupid ass debates surrounding like crazy, face, seven, 3D, standing next to you, and golden, and the dumbass opinions during jimin's photo folio

also queer people are "guests" in real life already

Our opinion on their style, music choice, career trajectory would be shut down as #hetopinionnotvalid.

i mean if the topic is about queer topics or issues, then letting queer people speak on that is basic human decency imo

y'all let (or you should be 🤨) poc, women, ect speak on issues that they're affected by when bts does something related to those issues, so let queer people do the same 😞

Straight BTS fans would then be likened to straight women who go to gay clubs, as interlopers who are encroaching something that doesnt belong to them.

y'all want to be oppressed so bad 💀💀

it's MUSIC, just have fun and be respectful

"Yall want to be oppressed so bad"

*cosigned* thanks for dropping in anon

[causesciencethatswhy]

The way Jikooks friendship even gets so minimised, all because JM is as close to JK as they want themselves or their self insert to be (because they don't understand/care for real Tae either) is so hurtful. Even beyond shipping, it's vile. It's also very telling how this is happening to Jimin in particular. Reeks of homophobia and a whole lot of internalised misogyny if you ask me. Same with Hoseok a lot of the time, too, especially in the Yoonmin dynamic.

The state of Army especially on twitter is...a lot to take in.

Exactly what I keep thinking. I've always considered that the vitriolic hate tkkrs/kpop fans in general have for jm is a result of internalized misogyny and I remember blinks or someone had mocked army's when they'd first brought it up because apparently men cannot be victim's of misogyny (some people need to really take a gender studies class in college is all I'm saying to that ).

Because jm presents in a more softer way that lends to feminity he also becomes the easy soft target to becoming the "other women" to their ships. It kind of made me really notice how a lot of the type of fetishisy shipper groups that you see in bl/fujoshi spaces are very similar to how tkkrs behave. The same intense hatred for the 'women'/women aligned characters and the immediate dislike for more feminine queer men is all something I've seen in fetishing bl spaces a lot.

The way jimin presents is much more obviously queer than any other member (purely based on mannerisms, cause if you hear joon or yoongi talking about love for a few minutes you can put two and two together). And his overt queerness makes a lot of cis hetero shippers (or kpop fans ) uncomfortable because they're forced to confront their internalized homophobia and misogyny head on. So they find a way to diminish his importance to the other members or villanise to cartoonish levels to deal with that discomfort.

I think the jikook suffer the worst brunt of this because jk for a majority of the fandom is the 'ideal boyfriend material' member , and that's perfectly fine as long as you're still able to see him as a full person outside of your fantasies of him. Jk obviously adores and admires jm (even if we're just looking at them as platonic besties). There should be no apparent reason to feel so threatened by jimins presence and importance in his life, except you see something There too. Except jimins queerness makes you uncomfortable and you project that onto jk.

As for the hobi thing with ynmin I honestly had no idea that he gets similar treatment in their theories (tho I'm not too surprised if that's the case).

I can barely scroll through army twt these days tbh. It's just bad takes, solo stan recruitment or ppl being dismissive of actual issues that army's should be focusing on like the kicking out 🛴 Braun from hybe, but instead being forced to debate blinks for the 100th time.

[swords-of-a-soilder]

Remove Problematic CCs

Section 2

"The Qsmp is problematic"

So fun fact twitter hates this fandom and everything it stands for, I'm not kidding when I say the amount of people I saw calling the fandom, toxic, racist, misgontic and ableist is interesting to say the least.

So of course when the SulhasSpace issue happened some people ran with it as proof that the fandom is the problem. Now I've show you guys an racist account before in the last account of interest (burnbook Qsmp) So I'm not here to pretend it's not a problem, it absolutely is.

So yes I get where these are coming from to some degree but Twitter doesn't forgive or forget, and there's of course the fact that not ever "fan" is actually a fan.

That being said they are two sides to Qsmp twitter right now,

1)Chill fun time, drawing your faves.

2)your faves are problematic and if you don't push for them to be kick out your a terrible person.

A common discussion I see on the twitter is often, "oh you're defending your faves, you call out any creator but your faves" completely ingoring the fact that most the stuff their holding said faves accountable for are ages old.

They call us parasocial but then make post after post advocating for members to be removed from the SMP, it's making rounds, so I want to clear any misinformation on Twitter and make it clear when creators apologize.

I bring you back to this tweet (please don't even interact with this person Thank you.)

You might remember them from the bonus section, this was posted jan 5 2024 with 1.3K likes (Jesus) so allow me to clear the air on some accusations.

In the reply of this they link a thread stating all problematic behaviors of creators, however MAJORITY of the this thread is just attacking the fan base I'm not even kidding.

Here's the thing, the bad apples aren't the fandom, it was this same behavior that had people attack dsmp fans.

Say what you want about Dream but you can acknowledge the dsmp fandom got so much hate for simply existing because a few of them were bad.

Because as someone who's been in both, and left both oddly who was previously a full on dream Stan and just sorta grew out of him. People hated us just for liking the dsmp.

They attacked minors in cosplay called us fatherless and cringe (and like yeah but still) overall make fun of Nurodiverst kids for having hyperfixations, and their justification was we're all terrible people.

Here's my thing, you don't actually care, you don't care about the alleged victims or the people who's lives are at risk; You want to make the fandom look bad.

You could have easily said "A person on twitter told another they hope the us gets bomb" and yeah I understand it was in the context of the Qsmp but people are not their interset, don't water people down to the things they like, then you're just making stereotypes.

How is it any different than saying, "a kpop stan did this, a furry did that,"

Also while I'm on this compersion of both I've noticed a constant conflict in regards to the Forever situation vs Dream situation with the parties on either side the other cc is guilty but theirs isn't.

I noticed this as soon as the accusations dropped actually a lot of people even here on Tumblr, where saying "this is what we deserved" and at "least dream didn't actually do it"

Tô be honest I noticed the fandom was at odds before that even, they were sudden talk here on Tumblr which means the topic likely came from Twitter of the dsmp compered to the Qsmp.

And I'll be honest dsmp was getting dragged, I read these thinking, 'why are we comparing them, they're clearly different with their own stories.' I still wonder that.

I don't want to fight with dream SMP fans, I use to be one of you , I had a freaking fan fic plan that was just c:! ranboo getting teleported into the Qsmp.

Why don't have to fight, but I guess with dream being unlikable, that makes things very hard.

Anyways I'm getting of track, when this person does have a important Calm it's often.. wrong

Ok no, to both of these.

1) she was not the only woman on the server, Jaiden joined the server at the very beginning, so unless I miss an noticed that Jaiden actually used macs pronounces that's a fuckin lie.

You can see Jaiden right there behind Foolish, on the very first day. This isn't hard to confirm, it doesn't even take a second.

I read the tweet and immediately went, nah that's not true I remember Jaiden, And what do you know Jaiden was in fact a member at that time.

(looking at this image gives me so much Nostalgia omg..)

2) she was not the only one being harassed, in fact they literally contradict their own statement with proof bad was receiving hate at the same time

Political lore, as in election season? I mean it must be I can't think of another political Qsmp event that bad was involved it huh crazy but If thats the case then Baghera wasn't the only one receiving hate thats... that's crazy, you're crazy.

Non of the tweets that screenshot are misogynistic, it's just people who believe the dream accusations criticing her attendance to his concert.

Also let me be clear real quick, I am AFAB in fact tmi I haven't even gotten on T, it's difficult to here and I'm afraid of getting hate crimed.

So I understand misgony, I live it, this is not what this is; Criticizing a woman isn't inherently misgony.

When you guys said "Qsmp had a misgony problem," is that what you guys meant, a woman gets hate and it's automatically misgony and not a section of the fandom being toxic..? Ok

[nightswithkookmin]

Okay time out

I'm reading through the comments on my last post and some of yall are wilding in there losing the whole entire plot👁👄👁

Please watch your language. I don't want to make space for anyone's hate and vitriol towards anyone. If you've been in the Fandom for more than a month you'd know Kim Taehyung is not a bad person at all. He's not. A little nuts sure but bad???? Cmon now.

If you hate him or anyone in bts this is not the space for it.

What I want is to hold space for anyone who feels disillusioned and jaded by the whole vmin situation. In case that intention didn't come through lemme reiterate. WE DON'T HATE TAEHYUNG ON THIS CORNER OF THE INTERNET.

You can talk about being disillusioned with Jikook and how you think things are not the same with them and I'll make space for that. Similarly you can talk about vmin or any ship for that matter and express your opinions about their dynamic and I'll hold space for that.

But please don't hate on nobody😔

Vmin have one of the best enviable friendships in all of Kpop. We love to see that sort of genuine love. It's healing, it's beautiful. Love in and of itself is a beautiful thing and we love to celebrate that.

And for me it's really hard to think of Kim Taehyung, the guy who threw a producer under the bus for preventing him from featuring Jimin on his song because he thought it was gay, same guy who saves fan art and recommends them to Jimin- there is a trail of moon on JMs back all thanks to Tae, when Jimin dropped Vibe he shared it to his story, he liked the post, he was commenting and interacting on JMs posts- when JK was silent as well. He even said he had saves a video of JM he was going to post on Jms birthday!

How is this person then a bad person at all. I don't understand. Can we talk about this one mishap without rubbishing and invalidating all the love effort and consideration he's shown towards Jimin up until now?

Do I think he could have done more to support JM, I do. Simply because he's done it in the past. He stayed up with us to watch Vibe when it dropped!

I'm just mad at him for staying quiet and leaving fans to do all the heavy lifting when he, JK, Suga are one of the biggest PJMs on earth. I'm hurt, I'm disappointed, and yes I'm crying my eyes out over here cos everything that has happened over JMs release overwhelms me.

Or maybe I'm too much of a romantic and I keep wandering back to moments of JM running to him and comforting him and promising he'll take responsibility for him. I keep wandering back to them talking about how much they protected eachother from bullies and I hoped he would lead the chorus and stand up for Jimin this time around too.

vmin are not perfect. They have their issues. But they also have one of the best relationship dynamics in kpop. Yet I feel I can't even vent out the frustration I feel over this, over the gradual decline of their ship, Bangtan friendship, or even express my insecurities over vmin without being overly cautious so as not to enable their antis and it's so frustrating.

We can't tell them how to love eachother. We can't do that. And there's always a possibility they know something we do not know. He's closer to JM than you and I. For all you know, he isn't even aware how these things affect his own fans who support him with Jimin.

This is something Jimin is constantly aware of and is good at- self awareness- but when it comes to Jungkook and Taehyung not so much.

Now if you'll excuse me I need to go back to pouting cos Tae sucks. He can step on leggos

I'm open to hearing theories about why you think he didn't say anything about Face.

No, it's not because he hates Jimin 🤺

Do you think it's because JM chose JK to do letters with and not him?🤔

Jk didn't say anything bout Vibe either and when he decided to sing that song he only knew JMs part💀🤧

Either way, he needs to make this right else I'm sending poop emojis on his next live💩

[roscoe-me-and-this-fuckin-kid]

So I am uniquely qualified to help explain some of the bandom confusion from your other asks. So, Bandom is a term with 2 separate, incompatible definitions used by people semi-equally (more people use one definition but the people who use the other definition use it more often). If you have ever looked at the fanlore articles for bandom, there are 3 and all of them mention the issue.

The definitions are effectively definition 1 being that bandom means MCR, FOB, and the other decaydence and fuelled by ramen bands that people write/wrote a ton of crossover fic for. Think of all of the warped tour fics and other fics where people from the other bands can and would just randomly be a part of the fic/make cameos/etc. This definition has the fanlore page of Bandom (Decaydance+, My Chemical Romance). This group is the smaller group that uses the term more often. This definition has also been somewhat looser as the years go on and these bands have less direct interactions with each other, more interactions with other bands, and some have been on hiatus/broken up for over a decade.

The second definition is quite literally that Bandom means Band Fandom and therefore any band (generally only western bands, this usually doesn't include things like kpop or jrock and the like) could be a bandom band so long as there are people doing fandom stuff about the band. This definition is used by more people as it's easy for someone to see the term Bandom and go "yep, Band Fandom" and adopt it into their vocabulary, but it's not a frequently used term by the group that uses it this way usually. The fanlore page for this definition is Bandom (music source text). The combination of this definition with the aforementioned loosening of the other Bandom definition has definitely led to a lot more bands being in the "are these bandom bands?" confusion.

The third fanlore article is literally just a page about the debate over these definitions that took place on livejournal in like 2008.

When AO3 had a bandom fandom tag still (it was dismantled a few years ago), the official policy was that any band that people said was bandom was bandom and that wranglers couldn't police it beyond adding new bands to the fandom and had to add bands if people said they were bandom bands. I remember learning about this all the first time via wrangler internal-comments on that fandom tag when I took over wrangling it for a few years 😅 (for context on why I said I was uniquely qualified to explain). This policy led to a lot of really random bands and musicians being under the Bandom tag in ways that confused a lot of people (especially since very few people ever read the fanlore articles on these things).

So, Against Me, and Laura Jean Grace, and anyone else that people are going "are these people part of Bandom?" (that aren't related in some way to MCR/Decaydence/FBR bands) both are and are not Bandom depending on which definition you are subscribing to/how strictly you interpret the first definition if thats the definition you use.

ty for the valuable insight and taking the time to type this <3

[rimouskis]

every time someone talks about/links to fic (ANY fic, not just RPF!) in non-fandom spaces, I think about TardisIsTheOnlyWayToTravel, who deleted all 380 of their fics on AO3 because people won't stop linking to them from GoodReads. despite many entreaties over the years to not do so! but people still did it! and it makes me so mad because it's so easy to NOT post about fic and discuss fic on GoodReads, but NO, they HAD to use that platform and not, say, Tumblr or discord, or whatever. some people really don't know, or care to know, why it's a good idea to not discuss fic outside of fannish spaces actually 😤

eons ago I found some deleted pens fics recced on goodreads, with download links even though the author had clearly wanted to wipe their fics off the face of the earth. it's disheartening, and also ... strange ... to put fics on goodreads, of all places.

(I blame wattpad [I always blame wattpad] because it appears wattpad readers call fics "books," which is confusing to me! apparently some of the works on wattpad are original fiction, but nonetheless: a fic is not a book, and goodreads is for books, not fics)

my issue w/ the tiktoks abt HRPF is that it's exposing our #niche #fandom #interest to people outside of said niche fandom interest and blurs way too many lines.

we already have romance novel readers commenting "😍 BOOKTOK NEEDS TO FIND THIS!" under videos on the kraken's official account, where they're literally begging in public TO the organization that they want fictionalized smut about these players (as face-grabs or stand-ins for romance novel characters), which is (imo) crass !!

we do not need Everyday Random People (some of which are hockey fans, as the algorithm is feeding them content they like, and this nominally counts as hockey content) being introduced to HRPF, especially by a person who—while familiar with fandom—is not familiar with HRPF's struggles with the fourth wall over the years [READ THE FANLORE ARTICLE ON IT].

and man... we aren't a big fandom. we seriously aren't. like yes, we're the largest sports fandom [even though men's football RPF is coming in CLOSE with 30,061 fics and F1 is gaining on us with 22,504 fics] but look at us compared to actually big fandoms on ao3:

star wars: 230,985 fics sherlock: 147,728 fics marvel: 628,295 fics kpop: 584,096 fics spn: 277,618 fics minecraft: 106, 521 fics

in hockey we have a humble 32,180 fics.

we're not even cracking six digits! we're not even HALFWAY to six digits! I feel we punch above our weight when it comes to fic quality by-and-large, but we are not a big fandom. when we get 26,300+ people seeing a tiktok about it... it's weird. it feels exposing! I sure as fuck don't want my fics plastered over the roulette of the internet.

also the original poster of the tiktok said this, which is just... ok, pal.

anyways go be kind to people! since some people need the reminder

[mrs-monaghan]

Don’t get me wrong. It is disgusting that people make tweets and shit saying that JK is getting fucked by Scooter and BangPD. Those tweets saying that should be reported but where is this outrage when Tkkers, JJKs and KTHs (hell any solo fandom of BTS), says/where saying that Jimin gets fucked daily by BangPd for nothing? Where was this outrage when FACE was released and Tkkers (KTHs and JJKs are included in this) were saying Jimin got fucked by all those producers to get his songs made?

Everyday Armys prove to me that I made the right decision no being an Army anymore and only focusing on BTS when needed. I slow started becoming uninterested in Kpop music as a whole because Kpop songs just don’t really HIT to me anymore. Every damn day Jimin gets so many comments like this for the smallest things but those little 7s never move for him. I knew more than likely Jimin would stay with Hybe and stay with BTS because I know he loves his members, but it sucks see Jimin love Armys so much but they barely move a muscle to defend him. Armys are so quick to get pissed at a Blink or a BlackPink solo Stan saying something bad about Jimin but when other “Armys” or other member solo Stan’s say something, it’s only PJMs and Jikookers who defend him. Yet it’s also PJMs and Jikookers (especially PJMs) who get made out as villains for pointing out how Armys don’t care for Jimin and are closeted Tkkers. It’s only PJMs and Jikookers who get painted as villains even when trying to defend Jimin.

For example, that Tkker on twitter post a comment that said “real love” and it was a video of Jk pushing Jimin away or something like that. An “Army” then replied to a Jkkers or Jimin solo Stan’s (I can’t remember which one) who replied back with a video of Jk pushing Tae away. Then, all of the sudden it became all shipper issue instead of telling that Tkker to stop doing shit like that.

I feel like Armys, KTHs and JJKs don’t understand that the issue Tkkers not Taekook, not Yoomin or any ship involving Jm or JK. The issue is the shippers themselves. If Tkkers stop talking shit on Jimin and Jikook’s relationship then Jikookers would leave Taekook relationship alone and PJMs would leave Jk alone. Like, Tkkers trying to tell us we were insecure about Yoonmin going to eat sushi. Why would we be insecure? Jimin has had 1 on 1 drinks/“dates” with Joon and Hobi (and especially Hobi). I feel like Jimin hung out with Hobi more than anyone. It was about the fact that Tkkers who hate Jimin 363 days out of the year, suddenly care about him.

Tkkers and anyone who is not a Jikooker still don’t realize that Jkkers do not rely on any other ship to believe that Jikook is real. That’s why most, if not all Jikookers only ship Jikook, while Tkkers have to ship Yoonmin one day, then Minimoni the next day, then Jihope another day.

Anyway, I’m done ranting these people make me feel like my IQ is dropping.

While anon is here venting and sharing alot of our sentiments, if you don't already know by now this BTS charts account is being called out for lying about being OT7.

As you can see that's alot of followers. They have lost like 20k since this whole thing began, as they should. I found i was following them and had to unfollow so there's is a chance most of you are also following her. This is the link to the account, please unfollow.

For those who think we are being sensitive, no its not just Jikookers who have an issue with them

Its not just PJMs either for liking Jimin anti tweets

Its KTHs

It's translation accounts

Its Jhope stans. What do we call them? JHS? What are they called 😂😂😂 anyway, them too

And many many more. Here is a thread for all the fuckery they've done over the years. Bottom line is, they are a JK solo who only tweets about JK's achievements even though other members keep making moves as well. They are not ot7 and that's the root of the issue. Oh also, they might be a blink 👀

Anyway, solos are nothing new, thats not my problem. I just want them to change their name

Pretending to be ot7 while having almost a million followers is dangerous. Extremely dangerous. Gullible followers will think its okay to copy your behaviour because you are a big account. So we need to make them change their name because they will never change their solo behaviour.

Anyway, if we can tag and ask them to change their name that would be lovely. But if u can't do that atleast unfollow them. They don't deserve that many followers. Not when they are clearly OT1

[goldenhickeysandramen]

Things I dont like of Chapter 2 (the rise of solos)

You have heard me say it more than once that I don't like Chapter 2.

After much thought, and internal reflexions (cause sometimes I catch myself being mad or sad) I want to share with you the reasons (as a therapy):

1. There is no Ot7 content. Obviously, it's not the purpose, but if we want to see our favorites together (e.g. jikook), it's hard, and it makes me very sad 😥. There is only content from those who have something to promote, and so they do crossover, or a 2 x 1 (even in the design department).

2. Chapter 2 is the rise of solos, and maybe the end of the power or strength Army (as fandom) used to have. 

The true face of many accounts that are SOLO has come out. 

And when I say “SOLO”, I mean those who want the artist outside of BTS. I respect all opinions. But, if I knew that was their pov from the outset, I would not follow those accounts. Still, I follow accounts that follow and agree with those accounts... 😓😓 and the fact is that I don't know what the fuck to do, because sometimes I have the feeling that I need to start over and do a clean up, even though that would mean not following moots that I appreciate a lot.

I'm a bit of a solo myself. We all are. With our favorites. It's logical. 

But I want BTS back in 2025 or 2026.  I don't want any of them to leave the group unless they want to. 

And so far, they have expressed their willingness to be back together. I don't know... maybe they are constantly lying to us... or maybe it's the FUCKING TRUTH! 

As solos become more polarized, fandom will lose strength.

3. I do NOT like Hybe's planning at all. I'm sorry for what I'm going to do now, which is to compare, but it doesn't seem right to me that Hobi, for example, had almost 4 months for it (from July 15th when JiTB was released til mid October when Jin released the Astronaut) and Jimin only 4 weeks. Of course, the solution is to give more time to Jimin (not shade to my dear Hobi).

Let's see... wasn't this supposed to have been planned for a long time? This chapter 2.... 

Didn't Suga or RM have some songs already prepared before? 

Why not the vocal line? 

And what the fuck happened to the 3 songs and 3 MVs that Jungkook was talking to Hobi in early 2021?

Something is wrong here? Do you see it too?

4. In addition to planning, it should be added that Hybe is being very negligent in the way it promotes its biggest intangible assets: BTS members. I won't expand on this, because I already made a post.

https://www.tumblr.com/hickeyramenjmjk/714301263540584449/he-doesnt-deserve-this?source=share

But I do want to add something. It is good for all of us to speak out and raise our voices in the face of injustice. But we have to keep in mind that the solution is in Hybe now and the radio issue.

In my opinion, it is not organic to make massive purchases to boost anyone's position. I mean, from my pov, the merit is to take the song to the top 1 because everyone who listens to it, likes it, and then "it sounds more and more" and also they buy it. Army is needed, especially at the begining, but can't be the only source of success of BTS. 

BTS members deserve to be EXPORTED worldwide! Hybe DO YOUR JOB! 

5. Despite some glimpses of change (i.e. Bangtan naked era 😏) some things remain the same, to my own disappointment (but my fault & my expectations).

By this I mean certain very Kpop dynamics, which BTS still respects. Despite their privileged position and sailing between two seas: kpop and more western culture .... I think it's clear to us that where they are living influences their behaviour.

By this I mean all: the subject of women, how they should present themselves in front of Army, maintaining the illusions of the "ships", having  impeccable friends and collaborations (although as drinking is culturally accepted there, that seems to be well seen...).

It is funny to me when I see a lot of my PJMS-moots think that everything Jimin is going to do is always some kind of "coming out". There may be glimpses, and hints, but nothing could be further from the truth. Expectations of him are very high (free him from that burden!).... and they forget that he is one of the members who has the most respect for the elders and for his culture and values. If you talk to K-army they will point out that Jimin speaks with impeccable respect for Army. It's not for nothing that he's always at the top of the reputation rankings.

(Side note: maybe that's why the final part of "Letter" is so important, that it's not written in informal and that Jimin would never sing in that tone to Army).

There are things that have not changed and I wished they would change. For instance:

- I never expected jikook to come out of the closet, if I'm correct and they are together. But I also didn't expect such a level of misguidedness and protection (compared to other members, with whom they seem to go out to the theatre, football or drinking with no problem).

- I expected Taejennie to attend a premiere together, of some of their actor friends, and they didn't even greet each other at the Harry Styles concert. 

I don't think I'll ever get over this. 

https://twitter.com/taenniefacts/status/1643833776986890241?s=20

Even if you don't think they're a couple, and that it was all a set-up (a bit naive, actually), it's impossible to think that they don't know each other, given that they share a lot of friends (starting with the Paradise family). 

But on the contrary, to cover up what for me is obvious, Tae has over-used certain mass-raising behaviours.... you know what I mean.

- I thought Jimin was going to tell us a bit more about his album, and he censored things for the minors in his vlive. I will never forgive our Jiminie for this.😣

I still have faith in Jungkook's recent misbehavior 😂. Although not much either.... But if he comes out in one pic alone with Calvins, I'll adore him for life and think there's hope for change 🥹

Anyway... the best thing about this era is seeing their talent and getting to know their solo works. Obviously. And of course to see how all the top brands want them...

and  how they show more and more skin! hahahahaha....Let's enjoy it...

cr: @taebokkiii

Don't get me wrong.  I'd rather 10 times “chapters 2″ than see them go off to military service.

But I MISS BTS. A LOT. 

AND I MISS JIKOOK, TOO MUCH indeed.

And I needed to make this post, because it's a way to get out the helplessness I feel these months (while I also think about what to do with my twitter experience lately and the rise of solos).

[sweetracha]

Thinking about if reader was a kpop idol alongside chan and in a variety show (or anything where theres other idols) reader dances to 'Dally' (Hyolyn, and im obssessed with the song and dance🫣), i can just imagine him getting a little jealous because other male idols saw reader doing the dance and, personal opinion, i can imagine bang chan fucking reader rough because he got jealous (i can picture him being the type of man to do that🤭)

Hey hun!

So I actually got this request twice, I'm assuming from the same anon but it also could be a copy and paste.

I've seen a few other creators get this exact ask, therefore I will not be answering it. I don't believe you had any ill intent in sending this ask but rather wanted to see some of your favorite blogs have different takes.

The issue is, there isn't much inspiration when the ask has been seen before. It's hard for us to add anything new to the conversation. If we did have an idea, many of us prefer reblogging and adding our thoughts.

The skz Fandom as well as tumblr as a whole has a big issue with people stealing posts. When the same ask is sent, it difficult to decipher who was the original and which ideas are stolen.

Again I don't believe you meant any harm or drama but these are my opinions on copy and paste asks.

Thank you!

Xoxo 🍑

[reflections-in-a-critical-eye]

It surprised me to see many armys taken aback by the lack of nominations for jimin in some (I think) american and/or european awards, and I don't even think those awards mean anything at all, that's not the point, but I think this is the first time I've seen so many armys (and not only pjms) talk about a jimin-centric issue without trying to ot7fy it. Because let's be honest, no one was expecting the rest of them to be nominated for any western award (and that's fine because, again, those awards mean nothing at all to me) but I feel like there's a growing collective sentiment, or more like more people are starting to realize that jimin, THEE Park Jimin, is meant to occupy a larger space than he was given and that he's being purposely pushed back. I know it's been months, and it's pointless to keep ruminating on the past and what could have been, but now that even army is starting to notice, I can't believe hybe can't see how badly they fumbled the bag, right?

I can't really comment on the spectrum of reactions across the fandom because I didn't go looking for this specific thing, but what I can do is share my thoughts and the issue can be explained very easily (in my opinion)

Jimin has promoted his songs and album release in South Korea through various means, including his participation to several music shows for which he won as well. In this case, his future presence at end of the year award shows is almost to be expected and I'm sure it will happen. I think the k-pop industry is much better at this type of recognition for the work idols do throughout the year and it's a platform for some spectacular performances.

At the same time, Jimin also promoted in the U.S, albeit at a much smaller scale, since that wasn't his go to market for reasons that I won't speculate here. But, as a result of his comeback and his fans' reception of the album and LC, he has made an achievement on a U.S platform that is used as one measure of success, aka, the Billboard Hot 100. Not only that, it was historical given that he was the first SK solo act to achieve No. 1. By simply having that achievement in the U.S market, he qualifies for U.S music awards, the same as other artists from SK who are nominated and which had less achievements, but that's another topic I'm not interested in talking about right now.

Nevertheless, in that case, Jimin and LC should have been at least submitted. As of now, it looks like the label didn't go further and acted in their capacity, which lead to Jimin's absence from nominations, including the K-Pop categories.

I think these are the facts that we know or at least this is how the situation is coming across. As for the reason why it happened, I find myself asking the same question. Not because I'm desperate for Jimin to have the same career trajectory as everyone else or to push for the U.S market, but because in this particular case, he qualified for the nominations. It's as simple as that. And if I allow myself to speculate a bit, I think the option of Jimin not being interested or that it was his choice sounds outlandish, given his excitement when SMFpt.2 debuted at no. 30 and the heartfelt message he had when LC had its debut. Regardless of any other debates about kpop and the U.S market, for some it is still seen as an achievement and something to be proud of and Jimin was, in his typical humble and elegant way.

[akookminsupporter]

Unrelated to anything just late night thoughts. I’ve been into bts for a while now, and it has always been about them for me. Obviously while watching their content I’ve gotten to know more about their culture and stuff, but I’ve never really delved further into the Korean culture nor the k-pop world, something that now I wish I had since I think it makes you look at things differently and more clearly. I mean, the k-pop world is as fucked up as any other music industry in any other country, even if it doesn’t seem like it at first glance, which makes me appreciate bts even more for whom they’ve come to be in an industry that’s very… constructed and harsh (to put it nicely). And not only that, but also for the fact that it’s thanks to them and other artists like them that the new generation of groups Can more easily navigate that world and be more open/honest, with themselves and with their fans (to some extent). These thoughts honestly came to me as a chain of events. I had just finished the Netflix show “Beef” (watch it if you haven’t is really good), and one of the main characters is a Korean male, and in one of the episodes there’s a suicide reference, and after finishing the series I don’t know why I wanted to check what was the suicide rate in Korea and oh boy… I wasn’t expecting it to be so bad but honestly I’m not that surprised either. But again, these are the things you don’t see when you just focus on the good stuff I guess. When looking at the suicide data I came across some idol suicides and I… it just really got to me. I mean, I was just watching a Jimin v-log from 2018 when he was reflecting about losing himself, the members having all their own issues and some feelings of the band loosing their focus — a v-log uploaded just a couple of months after Shinee member Jonghyun had committed suicide, an event that I know/feel that had some sort of effect on the band too. The stuff that happens around us, in our environment and in our social groups, even if these aren’t things directly linked to us, they can affect us, and the boys aren’t the exemption of that. I know the boys have said in the past that they try to show us their good parts, because they want to make us happy, and even though I appreciate that, I really wish and hope they aren’t suffering too much in silence. There is too much hate in this world, and there is too much hate online. Too much unnecessary shit honestly. All that mess and hate about fandoms is just ridiculous and harmful, specially if you don’t know what a person is going through behind their public image. And coming here to tumblr and seeing the back and forth between accounts is also so pointless. I know this post is all over the place but I guess that’s exactly how I was feeling rn and I just wanted to let it out. We need more love and understanding in this world. Wish you and your fam are doing fine Rosie 🫰🏼.

Although I usually answer the Asks I receive almost immediately, those that I want to post, of course, sometimes there are some that, although I know I want to post or answer, I don't do it immediately. Sometimes because I want to take some time to be able to answer correctly, other times I don't do it because, although I know what I want to say, I don't know how to organise it or translate it into English. I struggle a lot of times. This was one of those Asks.

When I read it for the first time I was answering or giving my opinion about each line written, but I was doing it in Spanish and I couldn't translate it correctly into English so I said, I'll post it later. The truth is that I really forgot what the ask said, but I knew I wanted to post it and I decided to do it now; when I reread it I stopped for a few seconds because the Ask is almost perfect for a day like today, after the news about Moonbin.

Korean society is particular, we could say, but it is too demanding, ruthless almost. The kpop industry is even more so. And I think as certain groups break barriers outside of Korea, the pressure on others increases as if the pressure isn't high enough already. One of the things I appreciate about bts and their agency is that they seem to have always had a certain freedom to express themselves in their music. Many of their songs are critical of the society they live in, about self-love, sadness and so on. Yoongi, for example, has always been a bit more open about those kinds of issues, but not everyone has that luxury.

The kpop community in general is toxic. They see these artists as machines, as puppets almost, who have to act the way they want to perform. And it's not easy. In a way, the human part of the Idol is lost or in some cases seems to be lost.

With the boom in the consumption of everything that has to do with Korea, the other side of that country has also come to light. Of that society. Of that industry. It's almost too easy to find Koreans on social media saying everything is not like kdramas and that living in Korea is hard. The standards of everything are very high. Many people who have decided to move there because they bought into the "illusion" have found it to be the worst.

And as far as I know, it's not just the entertainment industry. Normal life is difficult. The academic pressure on all young people in Korea is high. Depressing. Extremely demanding. The same goes for work and social pressure. That's why suicide rates are so high. And the fact that it's such a conservative society doesn't allow anything to be done to change a bit. Mental health is taboo in Korea, much more so than in other countries, I think. Or at least that's what I've read. And it's horrible.

Social media or the internet really is perhaps one of the worst double-edged weapons that humans have created. The anonymity that many sites or apps allow has given certain "internet warriors" the power to spread hate. With virtually no consequences. And it is sad and frightening. The smarter or more advanced our electronic devices become, the more dehumanised we become. Empathy and respect are rare traits these days.

I think the least we could do as human beings is to respect more but nowadays doing the simplest things has become the most difficult things ever.

[solarwynd]

When armys used to talk about leftovers I used to roll my eyes because not liking a group when they change their musical direction is the most common thing just as I found myself annoyed by their hatred for multis - do you expect everyone to not listen to or to hate every other musical act just because they stan BTS?

However as someone who used to hardcore stan JK, I finally get the leftover part a little. I talk about him a little too much and it's because I used to stan him. I think its so much disappointing when someone you used to like becomes a poster boy of selling out. But I'm going to try to make a conscious effort to stop. It's just a bunch of negativity for no reason. Unfortunately pjms talk about JK a lot - mostly because jjks talk about Jimin - and the whole cycle keeps running. To some extent I appreciate the spite-inspo they provide pjms but at a certain point I want to open my twitter tl and not see fight after fight with every fandom on twitter and a bunch of ratkooks and maidkooks or pigmins or horsie or all that bs being thrown around. I've been off twitter for a week because of this (also to catch up with my assignments) and coming back, things are worse than ever.

I don't know what the solution is but things seem more exhausting than fun sometimes. I need some Jimin content stat 😔

Armys hatred of multis wasn’t because they liked other groups it was because multis 9/10 are fake and constantly threw BTS under the bus in defense of whichever other group they stanned. And in the case If they dropped BTS completely, they’d always immediately start to shit talk BTS the moment they unstan. (Even more embarrassing when you’d pull up old tweets to see that they were professing their love for BTS or specific members not even 3 months earlier sometimes) That’s where that term came from and it’s always been fitting. The bulk of these groups in kpop wouldn’t have the fanbases they have now without the fans BTS brought in. Especially 4th gen cause 80% of them are ex armys that’s just the truth. Me personally, I had no issue with anyone unstanning BTS when I was an army if their music started to not be to their taste. That’s understandable. But to unstan then go pick a group like NCT, SKZ or BP and want to talk about quality of music or talent? Yes, I will look at you dumb cause you’re not serious.

I will say that armys do give western multis a lot more leniency because they do hold western acts to a more superior standard than kpop groups. Which is ironic because those same western multis would in turn do the very same thing armys would call kpop multis out on and then they’d even add in a hint of xenophobia and condescension ontop of that too. So it really was all just one mess of a circle.

If PJMS weren’t as productive as they are in supporting Jimin, I’d be 10x more annoyed with them. They do talk about JK a lot but like you said it’s because jjks can’t mind their business. It’s also because how JK operates almost directly correlates to how jimin gets treated so it’s inevitable. Outside of that specific type of name calling (which irks me to no end on all accounts cause the majority of the people who are doing it are grown.) It’s the constant screenshooting and going back and forth that bugs me. Like I get receipt keeping cause I do it. But then you’ll have some pjms who will literally camp on the worst jjk anti accounts like Muri for a screenshot a couple minutes after that man posts some nasty tweet about jimin. And it’s like why? Why is he not blocked for you? What will he or any jimin anti really have to say that would be new or any different from him hurling the same pig insults, SH drags or reposting that same encore vid?

I don’t think the dynamic pjms have with jjks will ever change, so the best thing to do if you’re more on twitter is just stay in your own corner or continue to take breaks. Jimin hasn’t dropped music yet so you’re not really missing anything anyway.

[beautifulpersonpeach]

Hello BPP, I’m new ARMY! I have only been a fan since hiatus 😅 and have only been in the fandom for solo era. I had been enjoying my experience so far and loving the music. But I am so confused by all the noise at present with FACE. I don’t understand what is happening with Youtube and the noise from kpop fans against Jimin’s encore performance. We have been streaming for more than a week but we cannot seem to go over 30 million? I know there is filtering happening and that it’s normal but it is weird because we keep going back to 27 million. I am not sure if you discuss stuff like these in more detail. Can you suggest an account to follow so I can understand more?

About the encore stage, I read your other masterlist posts and it does feel like a predicated response because of the success Jimin is getting. He is predicated to debut at #1 at Hot 100 by some accounts. I find the issue response to be very exaggerated though 😅 Would it be too tin hat foil if I think a big company is behind it? I had read an issue about Kakao being behind a targeted smear campaign against several girl group members a few months ago. Is it too conspiracy? I do not want to think unkindly or too tin hat foil if there is a reasonable explanation like kpop fans being threatened and being angry 😅

Thank you BPP! 💜💜💜

***

Hi Anon,

Welcome to comeback season.

I’ll be brief.

Nothing that’s happening to Jimin is unexpected. YouTube has been excessively filtering, freezing, and then deleting views off BTS videos since 2021. It’s not something I care much about but it’s impossible to ignore. I think there are two reasons for this:

1. YouTube now has paid options and they have been pushing users to switch to the Premium option. In reply to many direct ARMY inquiries about missing views, the customer service reps often suggest streaming from YouTube premium accounts so all views can be counted. It’s possible they’ve identified ARMY as a group of people who will pay more if it means views are counted for BTS, but even I who spends most of my working hours as a capitalist demon finds this move to be just a little perverse. Views are views and paid views should count just the same as unpaid views.

2. I’m good friends with stans in many other fandoms and they don’t often have the same complaint. Videos from other k-pop groups don’t have the same handicap likely because there are less people at once watching the videos (ARMYs are a lot of people…) and because it’s the industry norm to use ads to inflate views. And more groups using ads even more than before, is also something I’ve noticed since 2021. This is also a scenario YouTube prefers because they directly receive revenue from k-pop companies when those companies buy ads, so every view of the ad is counted.

Like I said, records of views isn’t something that I think matters all that much for BTS today. But that doesn’t mean it’s right that it happens at all. ARMYs have limited recourse here short of getting a job at YouTube and trying to change their strategy internally. What I personally do is stream as usual (checking out their videos at least once every couple of days - I’m online often so that happens easily… I love watching them), and talk more about them with people in my life. Sometimes those people go on to check out the boys, and then who knows? YouTube might be deleting records of people watching BTS but now even more people are finding out about them. A win.

Some ARMYs are reporting this to BigHit. I don’t think that will have any impact since counted views are entirely at YouTube’s discretion, but if you’re inclined to take more action, there’s that option.

Think how so much easier things would be though, if BTS and Bang PD just did what most others in the industry are already doing. The goody-goody-two-shoes thing is sometimes annoying, but I hope if you’re ARMY you respect them for making these sort of choices for as long as they make them.

*

About Jimin, I won’t say much. His in-ears may or may not have been working. I personally don’t care. Whatever the case it doesn’t change the fact that Jimin can sing. But remember what I said about Avoidance and Hate being the two primary responses to expect from most k-pop stans to anything concerning BTS? That’s all that happened here. Jimin had been giving jaw dropping performances, breaking records, and blowing nearly every metric of commercial and critical success out of the water, and the response from k-pop stans was basically virtual Ostrich head-in-sand. (Though many were streaming Jimin’s songs and talking about it in GCs according to some friends in other fandoms). But the minute they found something to mock, they swarmed.

It’s simple, predictable, and lame.

But there are decade-long structures that reinforce that behaviour, and the ARMY fandom is one that’s had to bear the brunt of challenging the dominant culture and behaviours. The casualties are reflected in all that’s ugly about ARMY.

Anyway, Jimin is fine. He likely wants to spend some more time with Hobi before Hobi enlists. I suspect it’s why Jimin cancelled his Inkigayo live appearance. But he’s more than okay. Didn’t you hear him on Set Me Free Pt 2?

You said you’re a new ARMY so please allow me to say one thing: pay attention to all that’s happening around you, but please try not to make it terribly upset you. Focus on loving yourself, whatever that means for you. For me, that means enjoying the music BTS makes as often as I like. I just listened to Beautiful Girls by Sean Kingston play after Sexy Nukim by Balming Tiger ft RM and I almost moaned at my desk at the pleasure in that shift in sound. Sorry if that’s TMI, but like, that’s the reason I’m here writing about seven guys from Korea. I’ve said before I’m not a writer, yet I’m here. They make me loco. Anyway, another good practice is to report the really bad tweets if you see them, and focus on Jimin, BTS, and the music.

And lately, Jimin *and* Jungkook have been making it very easy to focus on them:

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Happy streaming.