#i have a lot of feelings about wenzhou's connection in the novel

[sirenofthegreenbanks]

zhiji. zhiyin.

moments since then--

i wanted / the past to go away /

i've been looking for places where silence means peace

i wanted to leave it, like another country;

and not loneliness, because i've spent enough time

i wanted / my life to close, and open / like a hinge, like a wing, like the part of the song / where it falls /

tell me about despair, yours,

down over the rocks: an explosion, a discovery; /

and i will tell you mine. / meanwhile the world goes on. / meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain are moving across the landscapes, /

i wanted /

over the prairies and the deep trees, / the mountains and rivers. / meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clean blue air, are heading home again.

to hurry into the work of my life; i wanted to know, whoever i was, i was /

tell me about despair, yours, and i will tell you mine. / meanwhile the world goes on.

alive /

i've been looking for places where silence means peace and not loneliness

for a little while.

"Moments since then" (from 'Places I’ve Taken My Body: Essays' by Molly McCully Brown, source); "I wanted the past to go away" (from 'Dogfish' by Mary Oliver, source); "Tell me about despair, yours, and i will tell you mine" (from 'Wild Geese' by Mary Oliver, source)

TYK excerpts under the cut:

"Close friends that can completely understand each other" ('Story about Zhiyin', from the wikipedia article of Bo Ya, source); "I thought you said you intended to live and die with me, Part 1/2" (TYK, Ch.46, tl. wenbuxing); "Luckily, I haven't fallen deeply in love with you yet." (TYK, Ch.29, tl. lianzi); "Does it hurt?" (TYK, Ch.45, tl. wenbuxing); "I thought you said you intended to live and die with me, Part 2/2" (TYK, Ch.46, tl. wenbuxing); "To feel a closeness to a friend or a loved one despite being seperated by a great distance" (from the idiom definition of "海內存知己，天涯若比鄰", wiktionary article, source)

[badass-queer-couples-battle]

Gay wrongs tournament, semifinals of the losers bracket

Propaganda:

For Wen Kexing and Zhou Zishu:

you've got the founder of the fantasy ancient Chinese CIA and the leader of what is essentially the mafia and then they're soulmates and in love. they're both willing to kill anyone who dares hurt the other while also just wanting a soft domestic life together

Zhou Zishu is an assassin and spymaster who put the current Emperor on the throne, and then quit his job by faking his death (kinda, hes still dying but not as fast as he was supposed to). Had done A Lot on his old job, including murdering children (more than one, and at least one of them in a way I can't even describe without several trigger warnings), exterminating whole families, war crimes (and i dont mean this in a buzzword way, i mean "organized a public execution of foreign diplomats during war time")… btw he doesn't feel particularly bad about any of this, because he believes it was necessary. Like he wouldn't do it for fun, but he thinks the ends (putting a good Emperor on the throne) justified the means (all of the atrocities). As a retiree, he definitely cut down on the amount of morally reprehensible murder, but not murder in general. He still routinely kills ppl, he just doesn't go out of his way to kill more. Wen Kexing, meanwhile, is the Ghost Valley Master - Ghost Valley being a place where the worst of criminals are exiled. Even in such a place, he has reputation as a complete lunatic, owed partially to the fact that he either skinned a man or fed him his own flesh or both at one point, and partially to him having a rule where he would kill anyone who came closer than 3 meters to him. But in truth, everything he'd done was to survive the Ghost Valley and eventually take revenge for his parents, who were brutally murdered when he was only nine. By the start of the novel's timeline, he put his plan in motion - the plan that would drown jianghu in blood, but also deliver poetic justice to all responsible for his parents' deaths, as well as all who'd commit the same crime given the chance. And these two men, these two murderers and schemers, meet - and unexpectedly, find in each other the person who /understands/. The person who is just as ruthless and whose hands are just as bloody, but also the person who knows standing at the top of the world is not worth it, who seeks the same freedom of leaving it all behind, and who is still, underneath it all, a human, with human heart seeking connection. So you have this couple who understand each other with barely a word, and who want the same things - who are so hungry for domesticity and for people they can just goof around with when all their lives they had to measure every step and word - but ALSO where one half a couple is like "i gotta go murder hundreds in revenge" and the other half is like "ok pick you up at 6". (This btw is why I'm submitting novel's iteration of the couple in particular. Show wenzhou with their ridiculous breakups over morality could Never.) Also they were both hiding who they are when they first met, and later flirted about having figured each other out. Finally, I'll leave you my favorite quote that just. perfectly sums up their relationship: "And just like that, they fell asleep in each other's arms, steeped in the smell of blood."

You’ve probably already had submissions for them but I’ll add on. One of them founded an assassin’s guild and killed a staggering number of people. His malewife is the leader of a sect of insane murderous outcasts, and he attained his position by proving to be the most crazy and murder happy of them all. Most of the plot involves him wandering around watching his schemes get more people killed. Together they adopt a kid that was only orphaned due to said scheming (oops). They’re terrible and I love them.

For Legolas and Gimli:

They literally have a running competition between the two over who has more kills. And non-canon my ass, Legolas took Gimli to valinor

They kill alot of orcs together. They make it into a competition. Better minds than i have spoken about the couple ness

[mejomonster]

This is technically about Pei Su since I saw some scenes recently again, and the drama Justice in the Dark may well soften Fei Du. BUT in my defense: novel Fei Du has done a lot of these as well (though I can only remember half of the novel counterparts off the top of my head)

Pei Su/Fei Du: says he's acting based on logic, is barely aware there's even emotions influencing his actions, let alone just that he's even feeling them

Also Pei Su:

Smiles excessively fondly when Luo Wenzhou comes to talk when Pei Su is playing psp (I really do think the actors have their characters DOWN so if script diverges from novel we can blame that, but to the extent script characterizations align with novel, I think when Pei Su's actor reveals fondness or vulnerability to Luo Wenzhou it's an interesting moment of those scenes in the book where Fei Du gets shocked or knocked off center cause Luo Wenzhou made him feel more than he expected/opened him up emotionally, fleshed out with the visuals acting can provide. Speaking of acting, moving forward:)

Makes a fucking little boat out of that parking ticket, cause he's thinking about Luo wenzhou (reference to Luo wenzhous name) even though he came there to flirt with Tao Ran. That's ur underlying emotions bro ToT

The show does a nice scene where after meeting Luo Wenzhou in the cemetery, Pei Su goes to his car and the sun is out and its green (symbols visually of getting out of the abyss/dark, Luo wenzhou connecting to him and helping him see a brighter present instead of being stuck in past) and our boy Pei Su smiles genuinely. Again, pei su/fei du probably wouldn't even have much awareness he's happy but There It is babyyy

Then of course book wise fucking nonstop you just put him with Luo Wenzhou and 8/10 times he'll either smile genuinely or fight genuinely (feel vulnerable or threatened or a desire to passionately lash out) or truly be exposed emotionally into bewilderment (the "..." And the many shocked Fei Du faces around Luo wenzhou lmao)

[momoliee]

Hi, momoliee....Thanks for answering my ask....If you don't mind me asking, who are your top 5 (or top 3) favorite couples from all of the danmei novel that you've finished reading until now? And why do you like them? Sorry if you've answered this before.....

Usually when it comes to ships, to me it’s always more about how much I enjoy the dynamic itself rather than the depth so here goes :

1. Ranwan : two lifetimes. three personas. three separate stories. beautiful. full of love. We have the tragedy and angst that’s Chu Fei and Taxian jun with all its pain, we have the bastard mo ran 1.0 and his obsession with Shi mei while Chu Wanning watches from afar in pain and self deprecation and longing. And we have mo ran 2.0 and his gentlemanly respectful manner trying to cover up the beast within as well as the flustered and overwhelmed but nevertheless happy cwn. They give you angst, jealousy, possessiveness, sweetness, fluff, respect, sex. One chapter mo ran is preparing a whole feast based off of cwn’s tastes, the next hes fucking him brainless before one of them is somehow dying or getting his soul torn out while the other cries while holding him. Basically it’s a full package stuffed into one ship💀. That’s of course without even going into the analytical depth of their love and relationship and all that but let’s keep it here.

2. Fei Du x Lou Wenzhou : I remember while reading the novel I thought, this is one of the hottest steamiest slowest of slow burns ever without even the explicit sex. Fei du constantly invading lwz’s space, constantly flirting with him, constantly making his moves and the moment lwz so much as gives him a sly glance, watch him fall down the stairs cause he wasn’t expecting THAT. Their relationship revolved a lot around then sizing up each other and constantly trying to piss each other off. And then finally, our sociopathic little boy at last found someone to love him and care for him after all these years of suffering and pain and— pls theyre just wonderful ok.

3. Cezhou (from qjj) : enemies to lovers need I say more. Their dynamic started off very very fun, I’d laugh at how they’d act around each other, feeling like each was trying to pull at the pigtails of the other with all the mocking and pettiness. Then it’s slowly progressed to romance and their romance is so so sweet and so so sensual. It’s full of love and feelings and emotions and you can just feel it. Even the sex feels so…loving idk theyre just so in love it’s heart wrenching

4. Wangxian : pls we have the class clown/trouble maker x the good stiff rule abiding student and who doesn’t love a bit of that. What I love about them is that they really understand each other without any words needed. Wwx doesnt have to explicitly tell him why he did what he did, cause lwj knows and lwj understands. Lwj doesn’t have to smile or raise his voice for wwx to catch that he’s happy or figure out that he’s angry, he can just always tell. There’s this communication without actually communicating that many couple no matter how much they blow each other’s ears while talking, they can never reach that level of understanding. Idk they have a very very very deep and genuine connection and it’s just, it’s nice.

5. Hualian : they’re warmth, they’re healing, they’re home. They feel like a sweet cup of hot chocolate on a cold winter day. Them healing together makes me feel like a part of me is healing too. Maybe it’s the everlasting love or all the quotes like, “you made me realize how simple it is to be happy” but, I’m just very fond of them.

Honorary mentions : Ximang !! And yushipei :D

[fatalism-and-villainy]

Hey, this might be random and out of the blue but I was wondering what are your thoughts on "unreliable narrator" regarding an oblivious-about-his-feelings protagonist? You see, I've seen recently a lot of discourse about if wwx really loves lwj because of him being one of these type of protagonist... and now I was looking at your posts about tyk and what I got from some of them is that zzs also counts as one (what I always got about him is that he's pretty cold, to be more precise). And it just seems like it's a thing for one of the characters to be like that and tbh it was never a trope I enjoyed... I've always felt as if it's lazy to do this where writers won't develop a characters' feelings and then use the infamous "it's always been you~" and that's it, the reader have to be like "oooh, it's always been him/her". And there are cases it even made me mad the way an author seems to underestimate the reader by how shamelessly they do it 😂

But then there's 2ha where I really enjoyed it? It's just that I feel meatbun did a great job here since I always felt Mo Ran was actually in love with CWN, and for moments I even could feel something fishing about his feelings for SM. But tbh, even without the flower, I could buy it as him being just bitter at cwn not "paying attention to him" and since SM was the only one being nice with him, he convincing himself he had feelings for him instead... So in this case worked for me always. Anyways, I didn't read mdzs but watched cql and I actually like how flirty is wwx and I think it's a very balanced couple. Idk if it's that different in cql and since there are explicitly a romance, it feels more one-sided or not. The same goes for tyk... I hope that wasn't a lot of rambling!

Hey! Apologies for the delay in getting to this - I was intending to answer it once I'd written my TYK reaction posts, and then those took longer than I thought, and then I just forgot 😬. But thanks for sending this, I always like getting asks like this!

To answer your question - I don't dislike the trope! I think it can be clumsily done, like many things, but when done well it can be a really deft method of characterization. It can be intriguing to see a character where there's a big gulf between their internal monologue and their actual behaviour and responses to others.

So, I'm speaking here as someone who loves novel!Wenzhou - while I like some aspects of show!Wenzhou, overall I think their relationship is a little less consistently and coherently written. Like you, however, I love the way Ranwan is written, and I also actually prefer show!Wangxian to novel!Wangxian.

I would say broadly that all three of these novels' main pairings do fit some kind of "protagonist is unaware of his own feelings" premise. And in the case of TYK and MDZS, their live action adaptations don't keep that premise. I'd guess that's at least partly, if not mostly, due to censorship - if something can't be explicitly developed as a romance, then centering the relationship and showing a connection more early on because more of a storytelling necessity. But I'm not entirely sure that these three examples are necessarily comparable, because the manifestation of that premise in the three books has pretty different in-story circumstances*.

In MDZS, the biggest barrier in Wei Wuxian not recognizing his feelings for Lan Wangji is sexuality - he's just under the impression that he's straight. There are definitely some indications that he has a crush on Lan Wangji. In his first life, he teasingly throws a flower to Lan Wangji at the Phoenix Mountain night hunt, and in the Lotus Seed Pod Extra he won't shut up about Lan Wangji and how much he wants to bring him to Yunmeng. And after his resurrection, he has a moment in fondness towards Lan Wangji where he thinks "how can someone as boring as him always make me so happy?", and after Lan Wangji takes him back to Cloud Recesses after the confrontation at Jinlintai, he has several "oh shit he's hot" moments. Realizing he's not straight is part of the development of his relationship with Lan Wangji, but there are hints that he always had a bit of an unconscious crush.

I think the problem for me there is less that his feelings aren't developed in the text, but rather the way they're developed. The examples of Wei Wuxian's feelings are definitely scattered throughout the text, but they don't fully cohere to me - they stick out too much as obvious hints, without Wei Wuxian's characterization or his relationship with Lan Wangji really fully coming through for me. It's partly just some idiosyncrasy of my response to the text, and also the major discrepancy between his level of investment in the relationship and Lan Wangji's. Because Lan Wangji has been pretty intensely in love with Wei Wuxian for a long time, and was willing to commit the pretty big transgression of turning against his sect for him. And when Wei Wuxian comes back to life, he takes a lot of delight in excessively teasing and flirting with Lan Wangji - ostensibly because he thinks Lan Wangji dislikes him, and that Lan Wangji is stuffy and boring, but actually because he just plain has a crush on Lan Wangji and likes flustering him - without having any knowledge of the latter's feelings for him.

That's a big part of the conflict between them in the novel. And it's an interesting distinction from the show, because more page time is given to the post-resurrection arc in the novel, so that's where most of the conflict and relationship development goes. Whereas in the show, most of that happens in the long flashback, and the present day features them already being fond of and understanding each other, and Lan Wangji just doubling down on spoiling Wei Wuxian now that he's back. I don't think as a premise how the novel does things is bad on principle, but there's something about the contrast between the gravity and seriousness of Lan Wangji's feeling and Wei Wuxian's flighty behaviour towards him that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. He realizes he's not straight, and he confesses his feelings for Lan Wangji, but... Lan Wangji has had years to built Wei Wuxian up in his head, and Wei Wuxian has only just now realized the nature of his feelings! I can't help but wonder whether Wei Wuxian is actually prepared for the reality of a long-term relationship, or is actualized enough in what it means to be queer in a not-very-queer-friendly setting, to be shacking up with Lan Wangji immediately. So I guess I can buy the way his feelings are developed as a means of realizing he's not straight, but the text never fully convinces me that they're as strong or committed as Lan Wangji's are. (And on Lan Wangji's side of things, it's never convinced me of any reason why Lan Wangji would like Wei Wuxian in the first place, but... that's another topic.)

(A character who thinks he's straight and realizes he's actually not is something MXTX also does in SVSSS, with Shen Yuan/Shen Qingqiu. Only in that case I'm not sure he ever fully admits to himself he's not straight 😂.)

I would say the reason why Wenzhou and Ranwan work for me, when Wangxian doesn't, is because in those cases, both parties do seem equally invested in the relationship, even if they express that investment, or come to that investment, differently. But I would say the way both those books handle the unreliable narration is pretty different, and that's because Priest is a much subtler writer than Meatbun. Not subtler as in better, necessarily, but much less forthcoming, and more inclined to hint and allude to things in the text than spell them out, including characters' feelings.

So the way this works in ERHA is that we get lots and lots of expounding on the nature of Mo Ran's feelings for Chu Wanning. There are so many scenes early in the novel where he thinks about how much he hates Chu Wanning, but also how much he lusts after him, and where he thinks "ugh my feelings for him are so COMPLICATED... I can't figure it out" (like..... sir). Meatbun is a heart-and-id-on-her-sleeve type of author, and her characters' feelings are never really a secret. Even though Mo Ran takes awhile to realize that he just has a big old crush on Chu Wanning and always has, there confused and intense emotions that Chu Wanning stirs in him are always present front-and-center on the page.

And the reasons for his unawareness about his feelings are of course the flower, but also, as you said, the fact that he's just desperate for kindness. I think, especially given his trauma, he's a person inclined to think in black and white, and the text even spells this out at one point, saying he'll always hate someone who injured him, but always remember someone who was kind to him. (I mean, this is the person who, pre-flower, gleefully killed everyone in the abusive brothel he grew up in and burned the place down - and the person who remained determined to reward the person who saved his life as a child even after being infected by a magic flower that turned him evil.) So you hit the nail on the head when you say it makes sense with his character to turn his adulation to Shi Mei, who seems to be the one treating him well.

Honestly it's kind of a fascinating bit of misdirection by Meatbun - it looks like it's another novel with an oblivious-to-his-own-feelings protagonist, because it would make sense for him to be so for entirely non-magical reasons. But then, it's revealed that before the flower, Mo Ran was, if not aware of the romantic nature of his feelings for Chu Wanning, then at least very actively and earnestly devoted to him. And from a readerly perspective, I think the fact that we're already aware of his sexual attraction to Chu Wanning, and of how obsessive he was towards Chu Wanning in the 0.5 timeline, makes his realization that he's in love with him feel properly established. And I feel like their love for each other stems from a concurrent place - that is, they both recognize the kindness they desperately want in each other, they both believe in each others' goodness or capability when others won't, and they've both had about an equal amount of time to fixate on each other. Is their relationship "healthy" by realist standards? No. But I hope they never get better and live in codependent bliss forever.

With TYK, it's a different situation, because Zhou Zishu is not at all the kind of character who consciously thinks about his feelings. He is honestly loath to even admit he has them. His approach is kind of like that John Mulaney quote that goes "I'll just put all my emotions right here, and then one day, I'll die." So the development of his feelings is done much more subtly, and doesn't get actively remarked on in the text very much. What does get remarked on is his trust in Wen Kexing, and his belief in the sincerity of Wen Kexing's intentions towards him.

Because that's the big conflict in the novel - he holds himself back from giving in to Wen Kexing's seductions because he isn't sure if Wen Kexing is serious or not (and the fact that he's got a terminal illness). Wen Kexing, for his part, starts flirting with Zhou Zishu mainly for espionage reasons, but along the way actually develops a big crush, and they spend a good portion of the book... essentially playing gay chicken, lol. They do a ton of plausible deniability flirting, but neither of them is entirely certain that the other actually means it. Some big moments between them center on one of them being startled by the realization that the other might actually be genuinely into them - there's a moment where Zhou Zishu observes Wen Kexing being very invested in saving his life, and wonders, "could it be this person was actually sincere?", and another scene where he takes care to ascertain that Wen Kexing is actually being serious about his offer to sleep with him, before actually taking him up on that offer. (And then they get cockblocked.) And on Wen Kexing's part, there's a scene where Zhou Zishu alludes to wanting to rescue him from having to go back to Ghost Valley, and says "If I weren't dying, I would keep you as a pretty face in my house" and Wen Kexing is a bit taken aback and says "you want to keep me?" (That might actually be my favourite exchange between them in the book, and there's a lot that could qualify.)

So I wouldn't say Zhou Zishu is actually unaware of his feelings, in the way that Wei Wuxian is. It's more that He Is Looking Away, He Does Not See It. He's not a person who's inclined towards sentimentality or self-reflection, and so he's just not very transparent in his narration of what he's thinking or feeling in a given moment. And furthermore, he's someone who's very used to propriety (just saying the word "fuck" is an act of thrilling rebellion to him), so he's very accustomed to guarding his feelings. (Wen Kexing's shamelessness rattles him in this regard, which is another reason why he tries to clamp down on his burgeoning crush on him XD.) But his actions towards Wen Kexing to develop over the course of the novel, even if his internal thoughts don't keep a running tally of all the times he flirts with him and grows more affectionate towards him. Sexuality also isn't really the issue for him, the way it is for Wei Wuxian. He remarks in his narration on Wen Kexing's shamelessness re: being gay, but it's the shamelessness that is foreign to Zhou Zishu - it's never implied that he's surprised or put off by a man being interested in him, and he's even willing to sleep with the Scorpion should he lose a bet. He's much more opaque than Wen Kexing, but there's still every reason to believe that he was already aware of his own attraction to men, or that he's possibly been with men before.

It's also interesting, because MXTX's big kink when it comes to her pairings is "love interest being intensely devoted to the protagonist for a long period of time, without the protagonist's knowledge," and that dynamic plays out in both Wei Wuxian and Shen Qingqiu's discovery of their feelings. But with Priest - well, I can't make claims as to her whole canon, but in terms of both Qi Ye and Tianya Ke, the common denominator between the two pairings is "world weary protagonist finds the will to live again through a very persistent love interest**". So, with that premise in mind, it makes sense for Zhou Zishu to be more reserved, and for Wen Kexing to seem more active and aggressive. But in actuality, Zhou Zishu does establish a pattern of reciprocity and is equally active in their relationship development. (And ultimately, neither of these people has any experience with a committed relationship or with emotional intimacy, so they're starting off on pretty equal ground.)

So, all of this is to say that I don't dislike the trope on principle. It all depends for me on how well it's done, what the specific circumstances of it are, and how much of a sense of reciprocity I get in the relationship. Provided that the way it's done makes sense with the characterization, and that the characters' interest in each other lands, I can really enjoy it. I have definitely encountered media where it feels underdeveloped, but I wouldn't say that's the case with any of these examples, even if only two out of three of them work for me.

*Honestly, this is why I'm not into playing trope bingo when it comes to my preferences anymore. It's all about the execution! Something can be the perfect trope for me in the abstract and still be executed in a way that frustrates me or leaves me cold.

**Though the characterization of the love interest, and the texture of the dynamic, are very different in the two cases - yet another danger of defining things solely by broad archetypes.

[khaotungsfirst]

pls talk about your favorite ships 😊

GLADLY!!

ok first up: ever given, my beloved. she a bad b with a phat ass and we love her for it!

jk jk 😂

god this is such an open-ended question idek where to start. i guess i’ll just go down the list of my current ships and gush abt each one 💖

wangxian (the untamed)

still my no. 1 ship atm. god i love them so much!! their story makes me so soft 😭😭 they are literally perfect for each other. no offense but i truly don’t understand ppl who can ship either one of them with anyone else like??? i’m talking abt cql wangxian btw cause i haven’t read the novel but i know there are some more problematic things going on... cql wangxian tho?? litchrally perfection 🙌 they way lwj explained to wwx that the forehead ribbon is sacred and can only be touched by family and significant others and then PUTS IT AROUND WWX’S WRIST IN THE SAME EPISODE?? which is only episode 6 btw like... wOW. and the ending.... i bawled 😭😭 it’s just so nice to have a canon ship that you know is endgame and has always been endgame for each other. like would i have loved a kiss? absolutely!! but even with censorship they manage to invoke so many emotions in me it’s unreal, i will probably never get over them.

xuexiao (the untamed)

look i am allowed to have one toxic ship! and the potential with these two is just astronomical!! there’s so much delicious stuff in this ship. like they’re both already so interesting individually as characters, putting them together makes for a lot of fun and pain (mostly pain tho but that’s why we love it). it’s about the bittersweetness... it’s about the betrayal and the trauma... it’s about the building a home together... 

deyi (we best love)

oof these two... they don’t know how to communicate and it’s infuriating but also so much fun to get angry at them for it. shi de being in love with shu yi for 10+ years and when shu yi finds out he’s like “it’s my business”? KING! shu yi realising that he has feelings fo shi de and screaming his love confession from the top of a bridge? KING! the miscommunication? the drama of it all? INCREDIBLE! them being the softest mfs ever? I’M CRYING! 

wenzhou (word of honor)

i am LIVING for the scenes we get with this ship like censorship whom?? wkx really is out here proclaiming his love after knowing zzs for two minutes and the way zzs gets softer and softer over time? i’m AAAAAAHHHH! also they already have a son!! and a daughter!! it’s amazing! i’m truly feeling the gay vibes with this one and it’s so much fun. add in the fact that both of them really aren’t good people... mhh love it!

adeo (tatort saarbrücken)

listen, (childhood) friends to lovers is MY JAM!!! add in a tragic/complicated history and i WILL ship it, no questions asked (see also: me having stucky as my otp for like 3 years). it just makes it better now that they’re adults and they still have so many unresolved emotions and tension between them and uuuughhhh the potential for softness is so great!! 

-

we’re going into rpf territory now so if you’re uncomfortable with that, skip this 😊 (and yes, i am able to differentiate between reality and fiction, thank you very much)

yizhan

i mean... yibo being too shy to ask xz for his wechat? yibo auditioning twice for the role of lwj after it was announced that xz got the lead role? all of the bts candy? xz being protected by yibo’s bodyguard?

samyu

i am not immune to fanservice okay? like i know sam has a gf (and i absolutely hate that some fans think it’s okay to bully her online like get a reality check) but ugh they’re just so soft with each other. i just enjoy watching their interactions. also sam is always a crackhead and i live for the way yu gets so flustered/weirded out by it 😂

minsung and chanlix (stray kids)

aaaaaaaahhhhh i thought i left the days of shipping band mates far behind but.... apparently not 🙃 listen han and minho just seem to have this easy connection with each other (also minho asking han if he likes him in that way or in that other way i- 👁👄👁) and chan and felix are literally soulmates (chan said it himself!) i’m just sayin.. stray kids are not straight kids 👀

[badass-queer-couples-battle]

Gay wrongs tournament, round 2 of the losers bracket

Propaganda:

For Vegas and Pete:

Evil babygirl & stealthily evil babyboy. Vegas, known committer of atrocities, and Pete, who didn't rise up the ranks of being a mafia bodyguard for nothing. Never forget how Pete brutally shot and killed his coworker who dared to shoot Vegas in front of him.

I mean. They both kill people all the time. They even have evil gay BDSM sex. It's all right there.

it's plainly obvious to anyone even looking in their direction how murder husbands they are. both have canonically killed multiple people, often on screen. Not to mention the onscreen scene of Vegas literally torturing someone. 

For Wen Kexing and Zhou Zishu:

you've got the founder of the fantasy ancient Chinese CIA and the leader of what is essentially the mafia and then they're soulmates and in love. they're both willing to kill anyone who dares hurt the other while also just wanting a soft domestic life together

Zhou Zishu is an assassin and spymaster who put the current Emperor on the throne, and then quit his job by faking his death (kinda, hes still dying but not as fast as he was supposed to). Had done A Lot on his old job, including murdering children (more than one, and at least one of them in a way I can't even describe without several trigger warnings), exterminating whole families, war crimes (and i dont mean this in a buzzword way, i mean "organized a public execution of foreign diplomats during war time")… btw he doesn't feel particularly bad about any of this, because he believes it was necessary. Like he wouldn't do it for fun, but he thinks the ends (putting a good Emperor on the throne) justified the means (all of the atrocities). As a retiree, he definitely cut down on the amount of morally reprehensible murder, but not murder in general. He still routinely kills ppl, he just doesn't go out of his way to kill more. Wen Kexing, meanwhile, is the Ghost Valley Master - Ghost Valley being a place where the worst of criminals are exiled. Even in such a place, he has reputation as a complete lunatic, owed partially to the fact that he either skinned a man or fed him his own flesh or both at one point, and partially to him having a rule where he would kill anyone who came closer than 3 meters to him. But in truth, everything he'd done was to survive the Ghost Valley and eventually take revenge for his parents, who were brutally murdered when he was only nine. By the start of the novel's timeline, he put his plan in motion - the plan that would drown jianghu in blood, but also deliver poetic justice to all responsible for his parents' deaths, as well as all who'd commit the same crime given the chance. And these two men, these two murderers and schemers, meet - and unexpectedly, find in each other the person who /understands/. The person who is just as ruthless and whose hands are just as bloody, but also the person who knows standing at the top of the world is not worth it, who seeks the same freedom of leaving it all behind, and who is still, underneath it all, a human, with human heart seeking connection. So you have this couple who understand each other with barely a word, and who want the same things - who are so hungry for domesticity and for people they can just goof around with when all their lives they had to measure every step and word - but ALSO where one half a couple is like "i gotta go murder hundreds in revenge" and the other half is like "ok pick you up at 6". (This btw is why I'm submitting novel's iteration of the couple in particular. Show wenzhou with their ridiculous breakups over morality could Never.) Also they were both hiding who they are when they first met, and later flirted about having figured each other out. Finally, I'll leave you my favorite quote that just. perfectly sums up their relationship: "And just like that, they fell asleep in each other's arms, steeped in the smell of blood."

You’ve probably already had submissions for them but I’ll add on. One of them founded an assassin’s guild and killed a staggering number of people. His malewife is the leader of a sect of insane murderous outcasts, and he attained his position by proving to be the most crazy and murder happy of them all. Most of the plot involves him wandering around watching his schemes get more people killed. Together they adopt a kid that was only orphaned due to said scheming (oops). They’re terrible and I love them.

[badass-queer-couples-battle]

Gay wrongs tournament, round one of the losers bracket

Propaganda:

For Kinn and Porsche:

First of all, Mafia prince meets poor boy whom he makes his bodyguard. They are canonically engaged. Some might say they're not that bad, but not only have both killed people without hesitation, they went into scenarios ON PURPOSE knowing what the end result will be. By the end of it all, power couple to the skies but also 2 unrelenting Mafia heads who can and will kill you if you so much as look at their partner wrong.

look the gun tango scene, when they're in the middle of an attempted coup, and they spin around while holding each other and shooting people, is the most iconic thing ever

For Wen Kexing and Zhou Zishu:

you've got the founder of the fantasy ancient Chinese CIA and the leader of what is essentially the mafia and then they're soulmates and in love. they're both willing to kill anyone who dares hurt the other while also just wanting a soft domestic life together

Zhou Zishu is an assassin and spymaster who put the current Emperor on the throne, and then quit his job by faking his death (kinda, hes still dying but not as fast as he was supposed to). Had done A Lot on his old job, including murdering children (more than one, and at least one of them in a way I can't even describe without several trigger warnings), exterminating whole families, war crimes (and i dont mean this in a buzzword way, i mean "organized a public execution of foreign diplomats during war time")… btw he doesn't feel particularly bad about any of this, because he believes it was necessary. Like he wouldn't do it for fun, but he thinks the ends (putting a good Emperor on the throne) justified the means (all of the atrocities). As a retiree, he definitely cut down on the amount of morally reprehensible murder, but not murder in general. He still routinely kills ppl, he just doesn't go out of his way to kill more. Wen Kexing, meanwhile, is the Ghost Valley Master - Ghost Valley being a place where the worst of criminals are exiled. Even in such a place, he has reputation as a complete lunatic, owed partially to the fact that he either skinned a man or fed him his own flesh or both at one point, and partially to him having a rule where he would kill anyone who came closer than 3 meters to him. But in truth, everything he'd done was to survive the Ghost Valley and eventually take revenge for his parents, who were brutally murdered when he was only nine. By the start of the novel's timeline, he put his plan in motion - the plan that would drown jianghu in blood, but also deliver poetic justice to all responsible for his parents' deaths, as well as all who'd commit the same crime given the chance. And these two men, these two murderers and schemers, meet - and unexpectedly, find in each other the person who /understands/. The person who is just as ruthless and whose hands are just as bloody, but also the person who knows standing at the top of the world is not worth it, who seeks the same freedom of leaving it all behind, and who is still, underneath it all, a human, with human heart seeking connection. So you have this couple who understand each other with barely a word, and who want the same things - who are so hungry for domesticity and for people they can just goof around with when all their lives they had to measure every step and word - but ALSO where one half a couple is like "i gotta go murder hundreds in revenge" and the other half is like "ok pick you up at 6". (This btw is why I'm submitting novel's iteration of the couple in particular. Show wenzhou with their ridiculous breakups over morality could Never.) Also they were both hiding who they are when they first met, and later flirted about having figured each other out. Finally, I'll leave you my favorite quote that just. perfectly sums up their relationship: "And just like that, they fell asleep in each other's arms, steeped in the smell of blood."

You’ve probably already had submissions for them but I’ll add on. One of them founded an assassin’s guild and killed a staggering number of people. His malewife is the leader of a sect of insane murderous outcasts, and he attained his position by proving to be the most crazy and murder happy of them all. Most of the plot involves him wandering around watching his schemes get more people killed. Together they adopt a kid that was only orphaned due to said scheming (oops). They’re terrible and I love them.

[badass-queer-couples-battle]

Gay wrongs tournament, round 1 of the major bracket

Propaganda:

For Eve and Vilanelle:

They quite literally are a wlw murderer couple. And I love them very very much.

Villanelle is a joyfully murderous psychopath assassin and Eve is the investigator trying to catch her who Villanelle seduces Eve into enjoying her own more murderous side. Villanelle does a Ton of murders (including of a tech bro billionaire), Eve also does some murders. It’s a good time.

THE murder wives!!! no explanation needed!!!

they got canon homoeroticism AND murdered together <3

For Wen Kexing and Zhou Zishu:

you've got the founder of the fantasy ancient Chinese CIA and the leader of what is essentially the mafia and then they're soulmates and in love. they're both willing to kill anyone who dares hurt the other while also just wanting a soft domestic life together

Zhou Zishu is an assassin and spymaster who put the current Emperor on the throne, and then quit his job by faking his death (kinda, hes still dying but not as fast as he was supposed to). Had done A Lot on his old job, including murdering children (more than one, and at least one of them in a way I can't even describe without several trigger warnings), exterminating whole families, war crimes (and i dont mean this in a buzzword way, i mean "organized a public execution of foreign diplomats during war time")… btw he doesn't feel particularly bad about any of this, because he believes it was necessary. Like he wouldn't do it for fun, but he thinks the ends (putting a good Emperor on the throne) justified the means (all of the atrocities). As a retiree, he definitely cut down on the amount of morally reprehensible murder, but not murder in general. He still routinely kills ppl, he just doesn't go out of his way to kill more. Wen Kexing, meanwhile, is the Ghost Valley Master - Ghost Valley being a place where the worst of criminals are exiled. Even in such a place, he has reputation as a complete lunatic, owed partially to the fact that he either skinned a man or fed him his own flesh or both at one point, and partially to him having a rule where he would kill anyone who came closer than 3 meters to him. But in truth, everything he'd done was to survive the Ghost Valley and eventually take revenge for his parents, who were brutally murdered when he was only nine. By the start of the novel's timeline, he put his plan in motion - the plan that would drown jianghu in blood, but also deliver poetic justice to all responsible for his parents' deaths, as well as all who'd commit the same crime given the chance. And these two men, these two murderers and schemers, meet - and unexpectedly, find in each other the person who /understands/. The person who is just as ruthless and whose hands are just as bloody, but also the person who knows standing at the top of the world is not worth it, who seeks the same freedom of leaving it all behind, and who is still, underneath it all, a human, with human heart seeking connection. So you have this couple who understand each other with barely a word, and who want the same things - who are so hungry for domesticity and for people they can just goof around with when all their lives they had to measure every step and word - but ALSO where one half a couple is like "i gotta go murder hundreds in revenge" and the other half is like "ok pick you up at 6". (This btw is why I'm submitting novel's iteration of the couple in particular. Show wenzhou with their ridiculous breakups over morality could Never.) Also they were both hiding who they are when they first met, and later flirted about having figured each other out. Finally, I'll leave you my favorite quote that just. perfectly sums up their relationship: "And just like that, they fell asleep in each other's arms, steeped in the smell of blood."

You’ve probably already had submissions for them but I’ll add on. One of them founded an assassin’s guild and killed a staggering number of people. His malewife is the leader of a sect of insane murderous outcasts, and he attained his position by proving to be the most crazy and murder happy of them all. Most of the plot involves him wandering around watching his schemes get more people killed. Together they adopt a kid that was only orphaned due to said scheming (oops). They’re terrible and I love them.

[badass-queer-couples-battle]

Gay wrongs tournament, third place poll of the losers bracket

Propaganda:

For Wen Kexing and Zhou Zishu:

you've got the founder of the fantasy ancient Chinese CIA and the leader of what is essentially the mafia and then they're soulmates and in love. they're both willing to kill anyone who dares hurt the other while also just wanting a soft domestic life together

Zhou Zishu is an assassin and spymaster who put the current Emperor on the throne, and then quit his job by faking his death (kinda, hes still dying but not as fast as he was supposed to). Had done A Lot on his old job, including murdering children (more than one, and at least one of them in a way I can't even describe without several trigger warnings), exterminating whole families, war crimes (and i dont mean this in a buzzword way, i mean "organized a public execution of foreign diplomats during war time")… btw he doesn't feel particularly bad about any of this, because he believes it was necessary. Like he wouldn't do it for fun, but he thinks the ends (putting a good Emperor on the throne) justified the means (all of the atrocities). As a retiree, he definitely cut down on the amount of morally reprehensible murder, but not murder in general. He still routinely kills ppl, he just doesn't go out of his way to kill more. Wen Kexing, meanwhile, is the Ghost Valley Master - Ghost Valley being a place where the worst of criminals are exiled. Even in such a place, he has reputation as a complete lunatic, owed partially to the fact that he either skinned a man or fed him his own flesh or both at one point, and partially to him having a rule where he would kill anyone who came closer than 3 meters to him. But in truth, everything he'd done was to survive the Ghost Valley and eventually take revenge for his parents, who were brutally murdered when he was only nine. By the start of the novel's timeline, he put his plan in motion - the plan that would drown jianghu in blood, but also deliver poetic justice to all responsible for his parents' deaths, as well as all who'd commit the same crime given the chance. And these two men, these two murderers and schemers, meet - and unexpectedly, find in each other the person who /understands/. The person who is just as ruthless and whose hands are just as bloody, but also the person who knows standing at the top of the world is not worth it, who seeks the same freedom of leaving it all behind, and who is still, underneath it all, a human, with human heart seeking connection. So you have this couple who understand each other with barely a word, and who want the same things - who are so hungry for domesticity and for people they can just goof around with when all their lives they had to measure every step and word - but ALSO where one half a couple is like "i gotta go murder hundreds in revenge" and the other half is like "ok pick you up at 6". (This btw is why I'm submitting novel's iteration of the couple in particular. Show wenzhou with their ridiculous breakups over morality could Never.) Also they were both hiding who they are when they first met, and later flirted about having figured each other out. Finally, I'll leave you my favorite quote that just. perfectly sums up their relationship: "And just like that, they fell asleep in each other's arms, steeped in the smell of blood."

You’ve probably already had submissions for them but I’ll add on. One of them founded an assassin’s guild and killed a staggering number of people. His malewife is the leader of a sect of insane murderous outcasts, and he attained his position by proving to be the most crazy and murder happy of them all. Most of the plot involves him wandering around watching his schemes get more people killed. Together they adopt a kid that was only orphaned due to said scheming (oops). They’re terrible and I love them.

For the Doctor and the Master:

Immortal genderfluid war criminals <333

So we all know the Master has killed plenty of people, but, despite their reputation, the Doctor has killed a more than average number too. Sure they undid the whole destroying their own planet thing, but that's still something the Doctor did. Also there's apparently a novelization out there where, when they were children, the Doctor killed one of their childhood bullies but then made a deal with Death so that the Master had the memory of it and became Death's champion, which is pretty messed up and murder husbandish. There are plenty more war crimes on the Doctor's hands, and the Master has killed countless people in a variety of creative ways. Also, I'm having trouble finding the quote, but I swear the Master once said something to the lines of "trying to kill the Doctor is just my flirting" or something similar. But I do know Missy (also the Master but female at the time) described their relationship as "older than your civilization and infinitely more complex". They love each other, they're constantly trying to destroy each other, they are the only friends they each have who can even begin to understand everything they've been through; they've known each other since childhood and they've watched (and helped) civilizations rise and fall together. They may not be who you first think of for murder spouses but they really are a beautiful example.

[fatalism-and-villainy]

Big Sexy TYK Reaction Post, Wenzhou Edition

I meant to make one of these for ERHA but I forgot. Ah well. 

An attempt to be comprehensive led to me realizing it would be better to make separate posts, because this one is going to be all Wenzhou, all the time.

Look there’s lots of delightful moments and beats between show!Wenzhou - I don’t think I’ll forget the “commanding an army --> kneeling in front of your boyfriend and swearing loyalty” turnaround in that one scene, not to mention the D/s energy they worked in - but truly nothing can match novel!Wenzhou. They are not interested in fixing each other OR making each other worse, they are just interested in topping each other, and all is good in the world. 

The fact that their connection and their enjoyment of each other is not based in any kind of moral improvement, they just recognize part of themselves in each other and settle into a connection through that. The way Wen Kexing is incredibly dangerous, and yet Zhou Zishu isn’t afraid of him or even particularly impressed by that part of him, he’s just fond of him. But they both bring out so many new things in each other, and fluster each other and catch each other off their guard in so many little ways, and play all their little games as a method of flirting... it’s extremely good. And the trust between them! The way they’ve always had to be on their guard and hypervigilant, and yet they feel perfectly comfortable falling asleep in each others’ arms... I will melt. 

Also I’m with a lot of people in that I vastly prefer them not knowing each other at all beforehand, and just meeting and finding that connection by chance. The shixiongdi thing definitely was an ingenious censorship-dodging move, and I’m happy for people who have shixiong kinks, but the way it’s done in the show precludes them from being equals the way they are here. 

(Gotta bring up the wrist biting scene again because... the way Wen Kexing shows Zhou Zishu the dark and intense and violent parts of himself and Zhou Zishu is completely unfazed by it is extremely good. Part of why Wen Kexing gets so attached is because Zhou Zishu isn’t afraid of him...)

Also, there is something very good for me, as an autistic person, in seeing a scene where one person says “I can’t tell whether you’re being serious or not” and the other person actually takes the confusion seriously and clarifies. 

Like, the balance with them, where they banter and bicker and keep trying to playfully undermine each other (the scene where they keep trying to steal the wine from each other.......) and there’s always this undercurrent of uncertainty and plausible deniability between them as to whether they’re actually interested in each other or whether it’s all just a joke or mind game, and then they are actually able to be serious about it when it’s needed.... ahhh the good stuff. 

Also the part where Zhou Zishu is wracked with pain from the nails and Wen Kexing wraps his arms comfortingly around him!! It’s very nice how many caring moments Wen Kexing gets here, because in the show it’s largely slanted towards Zhou Zishu being the one giving care via physical affection. 

Also, the part where Zhou Zishu comes to rescue Wen Kexing and says to the Scorpion “you dare to act against what’s mine?” is EXTREMELY sexy. 

...as well as the part where Zhou Zishu says “I would keep you as a pretty face in my house” and Wen Kexing is like “wait, you want to keep me?” It’s this very cute moment of uncertainty for him, but the possessiveness (even when it’s joking) is very good. The, mm, role reversals in how they flirt with each other and conceptualize their relationship are just delightful to me. 

~more to come~