#i love you viren

[bycaprinae]

Wouldn't expect less for Season 6 🙏

Based on a conversation i had on twitter

[raayllum]

So when you gonna tell her that we did that, too? She thinks it's special, but it’s all reused A different girl now, but there's nothing new

[jelzorz]

167.

It's an argument Callum never thought he would have. He and Soren get along better these days, which isn't a high bar to set considering what their relationship was like when they were younger, and while they're certainly part of each other's family, so to speak, they're not what they'd call best friends. Soren is too much like an older brother, but not like the way Callum is an older brother—Callum cares about safety and plans, and Soren likes being fun (reckless) and ridiculous (stupid).

It's unsurprising, then, that Callum has never really needed advice from Soren, nor has he ever heeded it when it's given. And most times it's fine. When Rayla was away, it was always about going out or getting drinks or meeting other girls (or guys), none of which Callum really cared for at the time, and Soren took no offence when Callum turned him down or went home early. They're just different people like that, with different interests and different coping mechanisms—and then there's this.

They're in his office, gathered around Aaravos' prison. It's the second time they've had this meeting, only this time Callum has the Nova Blade on his desk next to the pearl, and now that they've got it, now that it's tangible, now that the concept of victory is real, the discussion is that much more serious.

There is no secret knock this time, no grumpy blindfolded Opeli, no pretense about what to do. It's break the prison and kill Aaravos, or wait around and risk Aaravos killing them. To Callum, the answer is pretty simple, but Ez and Soren and Opeli stare him down from the other side of his desk like he's just broken a law. Rayla, alone, stands with him on his side of the desk looking just as defiant as he.

"I don't understand what's not to get," bristles Callum. "We have the Nova Blade We can kill him and end this once and for all. Why are you all hesitating?"

"Because we don't know if it'll work?" says Ez dourly. "Because we have no idea how powerful Aaravos might be? Because you and Rayla went off to get the stupid Nova Blade without telling us?"

"So this isn't even about killing him, it's because we didn't get permission."

"It's about how we're supposed to be a team!" snaps Ez. "It's about how we're a council, how we're supposed to talk about this and decide things together, and you guys thought you'd just do what you want even though we decided together that we weren't going to do anything stupid!"

"This isn't stupid!" says Callum, scowling. "This is our chance to beat him! You're telling me that we have an opportunity to kill the most dangerous elf the world has ever seen and you just want to wait and see?"

"We're saying that we have no idea whether or not this will work, and that it's not worth doing anything reckless!"

"Your Highness," Opeli cuts in, massaging the bridge of her nose. "This wasn't the plan. None of us agreed to this, and barreling in without evidence is foolish at best."

"It will work though!" insists Callum. "The Celestial elves said so!"

"That's not evidence, that's hearsay."

"Look, Callum." That's Soren, and Callum almost blinks because it's rare that he's the one breaking up arguments. "I get it. You really think that this'll work. Just—what happens if it doesn't? What happens if you start a fight you can't finish? What if you're wrong?"

Callum scoffs. "I'm not wrong," he says loftily. "I did the research. I know this will work."

"Yeah, but what if?" says Soren, patient but somehow condescending, which was only ever something Callum had seen in swordfighting lessons when they were younger and Soren was a bully. "No offense, but going in like this is stupid."

Callum makes a face. "Really?" he drawls. "You're lecturing me about being stupid."

"You fucking bet I am," says Soren coolly. "Take it from someone who's been there. Starting this fight when you don't need to is the dumbest thing you could possibly do right now."

"I didn't start anything!" snaps Callum. "This fight was already going! I'm here to end it! What the hell are you three doing about it?"

"We're on the same side, Callum," says Ezran, hands raised like he's trying to placate his brother. "We just want to be careful!"

"Careful?" Callum barks out a laugh. "Doing nothing isn't careful! The elf in there is the most powerful being in the world! He'll destroy us all if we don't do something about it now!"

Soren scowls at him then, his arms crossed judgementally across his chest. "You sound like my dad," he mutters.

There's a pause. The silence in Callum's study beats, because they all know what Viren was like, they all know the things that Viren did, and Soren has the nerve—

"I'm nothing like him," snarls Callum.

"Really?" challenges Soren. "You're one step out from destroying an egg because it's a threat—"

"This isn't an egg, it's an elf who could conquer the world—"

"Who's imprisoned in a magical prison designed to keep him in," snaps Soren, "and you want to let him out on the idea that you might be able to kill him?" He snorts. "You're just like him. You're so convinced you can save the world that you don't care who you put in harm's way to do it."

Another pause. Callum's lungs fill with protests and counterarguments and words that definitely can't be said in polite conversation, but the only thing that leaves him in the end is, "Get out."

They do. Opeli leads the way. Soren takes the the pearl. Ezran shoots him a dirty glare. The door shuts behind them and then there is silence again except for Callum's breathing, heavy and furious that they would accuse him of being anything like Viren.

"You haven't said anything," he mutters to Rayla.

Rayla takes a breath. "I don't know what there is to say," she says quietly. "They might be right."

"Are you seriously siding with them right now?"

"No," says Rayla coolly. "I'm always on your side. But it's something to consider. If we're wrong..." She swallows. "I really don't want you to be wrong."

She touches his hand gently, and Callum flinches away like her fingers burn against his skin. The accusation stings because it was Viren who imprisoned her family, Viren who stole Zym's egg, Viren who started all this in the first place and the idea that he could be like him in any capacity is—

He breathes in. "Do you think I'm like him?"

Rayla shrugs. "Maybe you are," she says. "But ultimately, it doesn't really matter. Not to me. To me, you're Callum. I trust you, no matter what." She offers him a smile, a promise, and Callum hopes, with all his heart, that she isn't wrong to place that trust in him.

[imminent-danger-came]

So, this parallel, right.

That parallel and the 4x11 shadowpeach fight as a whole:

Macaque: "No that's YOU! You're the one always running off! Looking for more power, more sources of immortality—you're the one who wouldn't quit while were were ahead! Not the great sage, he's got to drag EVERYONE else into his mess!" Sun Wukong: "You're not in this mess, you're still free! Everything I did was for us!" Macaque: "You did it for yourself! You've become like this, obsessive demon! I told you going against the Jade Emperor was a bad idea, but no, Wukong doesn't listen to anyone! He just does whatever he wants! You put yourself here, not me."

(4x11 A Lifetime of Mistakes)

-

A large part of Wukong's motivation to keep getting more power was the freedom of it—the more power you have the easier it is to do whatever you want. It's easier to ignore everyone else and focus solely on yourself. It's also easier to ensure yourself and your loved one's are protected and have the ability to do what they want.

So, a punishment where the great Monkey King is imprisoned and trapped for hundreds of years? It's effective and tragic and fitting. Wukong wanted to have the freedom to protect the people he cared about, and in trying to reach for the power to do that, he completely had his freedom removed. He went from the mountain, to then the circlet, and then all of a sudden he had morals and was bound to those.

And then I think about his end of s3 choice to go face the Lady Bone Demon alone. Once again Wukong was trying to protect his loved ones (not to mention the whole reason he went after the Samadhi fire to begin with was to have the power, the freedom to stop LBD (which in itself is another case of SWK believing he needed to be stronger for such freedom)), but he also wanted to make sure MK and himself both had agency. He didn't want MK to have to fight LBD, and he didn't want LBD to end the world.

This is exactly the sentiment he tells Macaque in the 4x11 flashback:

Sun Wukong: "It's so we don't have to worry about anything or anyone ever again! Just living a lazy life, sitting in the sun, eatin' fruit, and doing whatever we want!"

But where does it all lead him?

To possession, imprisonment. Once again Wukong no longer had the freedom to do what he wanted (which is to protect the people he cares about). Once again in his attempts to help his loved one's, he only hurt them.

This can be applied to his relationship with Macaque, to MK in s2, hell, even Wukong trying to get the map in the first place left him powerless, which then led to him and the gang being imprisoned in 3x02. It's a familiar pattern, one we see with antagonist and protagonist alike.

MK in s2 trained to become more powerful, which in the end only strengthened LBD and forced him and his friends on the run. Mei in 3x12 protects MK by letting herself get captured and placed into LBD's crystal. Mei in 4x05 goes to protect MK, breaking her sword and leaving her vulnerable to being captured by Kui Mulang ("How am I supposed to protect everyone without my sword?"). DBK reached for more power and then became possessed by LBD, hurting his wife and son. Azure reached for the Jade Emperor's power and bound himself to that role, jeopardizing Peng and Yellowtusk in the process.

It's a cycle of reaching for power, endangering others, and then being imprisoned.

So anyways, here's why MK is going to lose control (his agency) next season and hurt his friends with his own- *get's shot*

[alollinglaughingcat]

i fucking love Terry and i will fistfight anyone who looks at him mean

[madou-dilou]

"Gods -Sarai, get up. Just -what am I going to tell them ?"

[naetles]

[latuarts]

i can't believe people are still calling claudia dumb bitch for not listening and leaving with soren, it shows that people are not paying enough attention to her and the way she interacts with her family, that claudia loves her family too much which is her greatest quality and flaw.

claudia was so torn apart choosing between her parents and it happened again with between her father and soren so she was unable to make decision like how could she when she's reliving that event again but just like what her mother did, soren the one who chose. he left not only because what viren doing is bad but also he needed to leave for himself just like their mother.

in many occasions, claudia tried to believe what viren's doing is right and justified his actions (remember aaravos said viren could lose her so he had to choose his words wisely) she probably didn't want to think for a second that her loved ones left because of their father, that he's the reason why she's left with a broken family and why soren left, claudia is clinging onto her last family she have left to the point she brought viren back from the dead and not caring that she's unleashing an evil being just so he can be alive permanently.

[sage-nebula]

To be honest, years ago when we got the first few seasons I thought I had an issue with Claudia. But it turned out that what I actually had an issue with was people acting like Claudia was a silly, goofy angel who could do no wrong, and that at most all of her terrible actions and behaviors were somehow Viren's fault. But once I stepped away from the fandom and got reacquainted with everything on my own terms, I realized that I actually think Claudia is great, because she's a well-written female villain, and I love female villains 💜

[petorahs]

me, gearing up to explain why the dragon prince's latest seasons have continued to disappoint me, that while i love the lore and worldbuilding and characters there are clear pacing issues that are so jarring it takes me out of the experience, and that i say all of this with great love for the series but there's only so much good concepts can do before animation has to catch up in order to retain the average viewer's attention. that although season 4 and 5 have been branded as "the mystery of aaravos" the titular character barely appears and that is a crime to me, that even if it's for the suspense and intentionally leaving the viewer/main characters in the dark it's not doing a good job at building up his character and i fear for the exposition dump that will inevitably happen later on. that i will be harsh in critiquing this series because i love it so much and want it to be the best it can be: *inhales*

also me the moment i actually finished the goddamn season:

[darkmagicmirror]

I've been thinking about @spicyviren 's post about Claudia preventing the sun from rising (and they made a more in-depth post today as well, which is also very good!), so last night I got curious and Googled mythology and eclipses because what if the eclipse actually happens and it's not just Viren's dream? And we know TDP likes mythological references. So...

This is so fascinating because of the "I swallowed her" comment Aaravos makes in Janai's dream.

A demon (or dragon, or-- (etc)) is eating the sun?

(*Personally, I don't think Janai's dream is necessarily accurate for telling us what happened -- but Aditi getting "eaten" by someone especially a dragon wouldn't surprise me.)

And speaking of "swallowing"...

And some of the other mythological explanations mentioned in the article I linked are also really interesting:

(The highlighting was done by Google, so it's not necessarily more important.)

And canon material, especially the Ripples short specifically, reflects a few themes here:

Abandonment - the humans are essentially abandoned by the stars (and the sun is a star): "It cannot be, wept others. The stars would not betray us!" - after the "star" falls from the sky and changes the land.

Crisis/existential threat - "With its impact came a long and terrible night: The earth bled! The seas churned! The sun and moon hid for weeks behind the sky’s screaming storm!" (Also bolded for emphasis because the sun hiding? The fact the moon does too is interesting, but the sun specifically is called out later: "And when the long, dark night had finally passed—for the sun must always rise, mustn’t it?" VERY interesting considering the sunrise mentions in S5.)

Eclipse as an act of creation - though much of the story talks about the calamity, there's also how "[the stars] had rejoiced to look down upon their newborn sea."

The Sun and Moon coupling and creating more stars - this is more of a stretch, but the Sun and Moon did get hidden together, and the Sea (of the Castout) serving as a mirror of the stars... like they're duplicating the stars, though only in image.

Mischievous acts - I personally think Aaravos is mischievous, so hmm.

One side note on the second-to-last point: if Viren learns the Star arcanum, which is very rarely understood, could that, too, be analogous to creating another star?

Anyway this all implies that perhaps a similar eclipse occurred before, when Aaravos had fallen and the Sea of the Castout was created? And we know how the Rise Again short story, which is about her pseudo-resurrection of her pet cat, correlated to S4 opening with Claudia having brought her father back to life, sort of in a repeating history sense. Aaravos's Patience story foreshadowed the fact that all he could do in S4 is wait and bide his time. Ripples could foreshadow S5 being that first "touch" that sets off greater change... and, like with the resurrection, perhaps history repeating itself, in a sense, with a potential upcoming eclipse?

And another interesting line: "The sky opened its maw and spat from its black jaws a tiny star."

It's not exactly black, but I know some people say the ridges here look like teeth...

Also, even though Sol is referring to his blindness, these lines about the Sun "never [rising] again" and an "eternal night" fit into similar themes to the eclipse and the Ripples short.

Also, just going back to the abandonment theme of the eclipse really quick--

The Midnight Star poem also talks about the stars abandoning humanity. "Elarion, unworthy whelp, / Wept as the stars turned black the sky, / They donned their masks / They turned their backs / And left Elarion to die."

(I have more to break down about that entire stanza in another post; I just want to point out the bolded parts for now.)

Now, most of these are references to the past... so what about now?

If I were to guess on how the same themes I compared to the Ripples story might apply to "current" series events...

Abandonment - Claudia feeling abandoned by Aaravos (as mentioned in the Lost Child short)? Or, alternately, Aaravos feeling abandoned (by either Claudia, after she had to flee from the battle, and/or Viren, after his rejection)?

Crisis/existential threat - IMO the biggest threat is Karim potentially joining up with Sol Regem right now. Though some would say Aaravos being close to being freed could be the threat/crisis here. But I'm an Aaravos apologist, so I am not part of that group LOL

Eclipse as an act of creation - Claudia regenerates her missing leg, perhaps?

The Sun and Moon coupling and creating more stars - Viren Star arcanum?

Mischievous acts - Aaravos again.

All of this to say-- I don't think the eclipse is just for show/because it looks cool, but if we consider the mythological beliefs surrounding eclipses, it ties in significantly to the story.

Also I leave you with a few last bits from the article that just remind me of TDP things:

"In many cultures, the darkening of the sun meant the gods were very, very angry with humanity, and about to inflict some punishment. Often, that meant that in order to appease them, you had to kill someone."

That reminds me of the stars seeming to punish humanity for daring to use magic... which is also when Aaravos gets cast down?

"The Greeks thought an eclipse meant that the gods were about to rain punishment down on a king, so in the days before an eclipse, they would choose prisoners or peasants to stand in as the king in the hopes that they’d get the eclipse punishment and the real king would be saved. Once the eclipse was over, the substitute king was executed."

This is so far off, but it reminds me of Harrow anyway? Mostly with the soulfang serpent idea of switching Harrow with someone else. Interesting.

"For the Inuits, the sun and moon weren’t a married couple but brother and sister. At the beginning of the world they quarreled, and the sun goddess Malina walked away from her brother, the moon god Anningan. Anningan continued to chase after her, and whenever he caught up to her, there was an eclipse."

Which reminds me of the line in Strangers, the short from Soren's perspective, where "Claudia had appeared and he’d done it again, a little boy chasing after his sister..."

A lot of it is probably coincidence, but it's still really interesting!

[raayllum]

Viren and Rayla parallels: 1/?

[apogean-tides]

It's a unique type of frustration when you agree that a character is deeply flawed but other people keep missing what's actually wrong with them and assigning them new flaws that they don't even have it's like free my elf he did none of that. He did a bunch of other shit tho.

[imminent-danger-came]

So, it's like this right. Callum would do anything for Rayla. And in Rayla's case, the one thing she refuses to sacrifice is Callum. Where is too far for those two. Or more aptly, how far past "too far" are they willing to go for each other. "I always knew you'd go far—but I didn't know how far you'd go to get there."

[creature-once-removed]

I am not a monster! I would never sacrifice my child!

Are you sure Viren? Are you really very extra sure about that?

[kradogsrats]

sometimes I think about how because of the real-world time lag it feels like Viren and Aaravos have been dancing dangerously and broodingly around their simmering sexual tension forever but in reality Viren has literally only been aware of Aaravos for like a couple months, max, not counting the time he's dead??? though Aaravos may have been watching Viren through the mirror like "sooner or later I am going to wreck that ass" for much longer, I mean who knows

anyway my brain somehow always kind of wants to register anything where they get together after s3 as "slow burn" but that means the non-"slow burn" version of the relationship has to be basically "Viren drops his pants pretty much the INSTANT he sees Aaravos in the mirror like 'well I can't NOT fuck him'"

... which tbf is a not-insignificant number of viravos fics lmao