#i would love for a scene where the siblings have a talk post southern raiders because im sure like

[fabdante]

like idk if i was katara and i was carrying all that guilt about my moms murder and then some guy is like 'i can help you get some catharsis for that' and then everyone else started arguing with me about it i would get mad about it to asdfghjk i would probably be a little mean also

i would say some harsh things maybe

i would perhaps have a feeling or two

[fakeikemen]

Katara's Grief

(This is my first attempt at a meta post and I know that this has probably been already done but I just needed to get it off my chest and go on a little rant and it kinda got long so bear with me.)

A lot of the hate on Katara stems from the fact that she keeps on mentioning her mother's death at every chance she gets and invalidates other people's pain to assert that her suffering is the worst of the lot.

And even though everybody is entitled to their own opinions, I'm gonna point out why I think the aforesaid claims are not exactly correct.

First we'll take a look at; Katara's Backstory:

We know that Kya is killed in a fire nation raid and that Katara had been the last person to see her alive before she leaves the tent on her mother's insistence. Only to come back a few moments later and find her dead body. This, in itself is a traumatising event.

So yes, her mother died. Other people in the story go through far worse. You're not wrong when you say that.

But what is more important in Katara's story is the aftermath of her mother's death.

As Sokka says while talking to Toph in "The Runaway" in B3 Ep7:

Sokka: When our mom died, that was the hardest time in my life. Our family was a mess, but Katara? She had so much strength. She stepped up and took on so much responsibility. She helped fill the void that was left by our mom.

As an eight year old, she had to force herself to grow up to step into her mother's shoes and raise herself and her elder brother and simultaneously look after the entire village after her father left to fight in the war. She had to do all of it by herself.

In face of all her responsibilities, she never really had the chance to simply be a grieving child lamenting the loss of her mother. She habituated herself to caring more about others than herself (We see this trait in the entire series as she acts as the stand-in mom friend for the entire Gaang with an exception of Suki and Zuko). She ended up bottling her feelings of grief, resentment, guilt and rage deep within herself.

She had to give up an extensive part of her childhood where most children focus on figuring themselves out, to become a mature and responsible person who was working as the immovable pillar holding up the family and even the whole village not much later.

She put up a strong front to help others and pretended to be fine even though she was hurting inside the whole time.

She could never find any closure from the situation. She never got over it.

Moving on to the criticisms:

1. Katara keeps on mentioning her mother like a broken record:

Here are the number of times Katara mentions her mother's death (not sure if that's all of it, lmk if there are any others):

1. In her first scene with Sokka

Katara: Ever since mom died, I've been doing all the work around camp while you've been off playing soldier!

2. A short while after she meets Aang

Katara: Well, I just want you to be prepared for what you might see. The Fire Nation is ruthless. They killed my mother, and they could have done the same to your people.

3. A short while after she meets Haru

Katara: I lost my mother in a Fire Nation raid. This necklace is all I have left of her.

4. A short while after she meets Jet

Katara: Sokka and I lost our mother to the Fire Nation.

5. In the swamp after she sees a vision of her mother

Katara: I thought I saw Mom.

6. In the Crystal Catacombs with Zuko

Katara: I don't? How dare you! You have no idea what this war has put me through! Me personally! The Fire Nation took my mother away from me.

7. A short while after she meets Hama

Katara: We completely understand. We lost our mother in a raid.

8. Repeated mentions in The Southern Raiders episode

(Most of the episode basically)

The first mention with Sokka is in the middle of a siblings' spat where she tells off Sokka for trying to act as if he were superior when it was obvious that in the face of the gaping hole that was left by Kya's sudden death, Katara had shouldered much more responsibility.

When she tells it to Aang, she uses it as a proof that the Fire Nation is capable of immense cruelty and destruction.

The Gaang travel all around the world and meet different people affected by the war in different ways. So when Haru, Jet and Hama narrate their own stories, Katara sympathises with them and talks about Kya's death in lieu of "I understand, the Fire Nation hurt me too."

After they got separated, Aang, Sokka and Katara each had their visions and after they get back together, they all mention their visions and so does Katara.

When left alone in catacombs with Zuko, whom she considered as the face of the Fire Nation— the same Fire Nation that had her mother killed and forced her father to leave to fight in the war, she has a meltdown where she rightfully accuses him of all the bad things he's done and then breaks down while talking about how the war has cost her i.e., by causing her mother's death.

The Southern Raiders is the episode where Katara hunts down the man responsible for her mother's death. If you think mentioning Kya repeatedly in this episode is uncalled for, then I don't know what to tell you.

In all the incidents mentioned above, Katara mentioning her mother's death is a very natural occurrence is the respective conversations. She mostly talks about Kya's death to either extend her sympathy or to use it as an example of the ruthlessness of the Fire Nation.

Another fact to be noted is that 70% of the Gaang's storyline is followed via Katara from a narrative point of view. Plus, being the mom-friend, she acts as the spokesperson. Considering that Kya's death is a major event that played a huge role in shaping Katara's life and is also the source of her severe, unresolved trauma, which acts as the driving force of her story, it is only natural that she brings up this topic whenever she is engaging in a deeper conversation.

It is us as the viewers who have seen her from the start and already know about her mother's death and we see her talking to multiple people about it. Which is why it might come across as repetitive to some people.

While, Kya's death is not necessary information that everyone needs to know, Katara talking about it never comes across as a forced or unnatural.

2. Katara invalidates others' pain because she thinks she has suffered the most:

First of all, if anything, Katara is the most empathetic person of them all. As the mom-friend of the group, not only is she their constant moral support, she also helps them untangle and sort out their own feelings. She is also able to tap into issues that aren't said out loud.

Instances of Katara helping and supporting Aang, emotionally are uncountable.

She is the first one to notice Sokka's sour mood in B3 Ep4 "Sokka's Master". And even though his insecurities seem baseless, she validates him (by saying "I'm sorry you're feeling so down" instead of something like "That's a dumb thing to say") and knows exactly what to do to cheer him up.

In B3 Ep7 "The Runaway" she has the insight to understand that Toph's unruly behaviour is caused by the mixed feelings she has about her parents even though Toph's herself never talked about it.

She even reaches out to Zuko in B2 Ep19 "Crossroads of Destiny" even though she used to think of him as the face of the enemy.

But then there's The Southern Raiders.

Ah yes, that episode where Katara is extremely OOC and a total b*tch.

Agreed that she said some things that she definitely shouldn't have said. But like, she's just 14?? And has been hurting on the inside since she was 8?? And pretended to be fine just for the sake of other people?? Like, there's a limit to how much she can have her shit under control?? And she did a real good job of Sokka's upbringing and taking care of the village and taking care of Gaang on her own?? Some people out there are really willing to forget everything she has ever done just because she was mean for 5 minutes?? A traumatised 14 yo shouldn't be villianised and called toxic because she got mad and lashed out at people that one time??

But here's my take on the scene anyway:

When Aang gets to know that she's going to go face her mother's killer:

Aang: Um ... and what exactly do you think this will accomplish?

Katara: I knew you wouldn't understand. 

Aang is a non-confrontational person who prefers running away from difficult situations as opposed to Katara who firmly stands her ground and is never afraid of confrontations. Katara had approached Aang only hoping that he would understand. But going by his dismissal, he obviously doesn't understand the burning need that she has to confront the man who had single-handedly destroyed her childhood. (Most people infer that what Katara means is that she thinks that Aang doesn't understand the pain of losing people. And so does Aang, I guess)

But things start getting even more tricky when:

Aang: Katara, you sound like Jet.

In all honesty, this is probably the most insensitive thing that she could've heard from anyone right then, let alone one of her closest friends. Hearing herself being compared to a homicidal maniac just because she wants to avenge her mother's killer. (No, I'm not justifying murder but there's a clear difference between homicide and avenging someone's death. And Aang may not be my favourite character but I do love him but this wasn't really a good thing to say either. And he wasn't even mentally distressed in the very least to be completely lacking tact or a filter.)

And then the situation escalates:

Sokka: Katara, she was my mother, too, but I think Aang might be right.

Katara: Then you didn't love her the way I did!

After 6 long years of Katara bottling in her dark feelings and letting them fester inside herself, she is finally letting them out and the first things she faces in a span of few minutes are outright rejection, invalidation of her feelings, comparison to a homicidal maniac and nothing akin to the unconditional support that she has provided to everybody. Her own brother tells her that he is siding with the boy who just compared her to a homicidal maniac.

Yes, accusing your own brother of not loving your mother enough is a very cruel thing to do. But both Sokka and Katara know that she doesn't entirely mean it.

But also, there is one very important factor in here:

In B3 Ep7 "The Runaway", Sokka says to Toph:

Sokka: I'm gonna tell you something crazy. I never told anyone this before, but honestly? I'm not sure I can remember what my mother looked like. It really seems like my whole life, Katara's been the one looking out for me. She's always been the one that's there. And now, when I try to remember my mom, Katara's is the only face I can picture. 

Katara overhears this conversation just as Sokka had meant her to.

This dialogue lets us know that Sokka's coping mechanism has made him suppress all memories of Kya and replace them with memories of Katara in order to attain a semblance of normalcy.

Both Katara and Sokka had very different ways of coping with Kya's death. Katara pressed down her feelings and tried her best to pretend to ignore them while Sokka partially succeeded in forgetting her.

When Katara first hears these words she is shown to be crying. But if she were to remember these very words while she was justifying herself infront of her own brother and a close friend for wanting to avenge her mother, it would've had a negative impact on her.

In her rage, she would've thought: "Of course he doesn't want to avenge mom. Because he doesn't think it's worth it and that's because he doesn't even remember enough of her to be mad about her death."

And for someone who has spent each day of the last 6 years trying to fill in the shoes of her mother and experiencing her absence everyday, the idea of forgetting her mother is a ridiculous concept to her.

Her thoughts would have quickly derailed to: "He didn't love her enough to remember her."

In light of these thoughts, saying "Then you didn't love her the way I did" doesn't feel out of the blue.

No, I am definitely not justifying what she said, I'm just laying out a possible explanation to why she said what she said.

Yes, she should've apologized to Sokka for this and I think that they definitely should've had a long conversation about their mother's death and how it affected them. Between Katara supressing her feelings and Sokka supressing his memories, i don't think they ever had this conversation.

But sadly we are given neither of these scenes.

Tl;dr: Everytime Katara mentions her mother, it's with good reason and I don't think it's fair to call a character toxic when they lack a mind to mouth filter for 5 minutes and say some mean things. And considering all that Katara has done for everybody, it isn't fair at all.

Peace out!

[tuiyla]

That sibling post reminded me that Sokka and Katara are such a great example of a realistic sibling duo in media. They go from "don't even LOOK at me or I'll smack you" to "I would hide a body for you" in the same episode.

You are so right, my friend. Part of me was thinking about them when I reblogged that post because they are the perfect sibling duo and they are so criminally underrated.

I mean, it kind of makes sense for the Avatar universe (and its fanbase) to prioritize other familial dynamics. Not that Zuko and Azula’s messed up relationship is “better” just because it’s complex in a different way, but it’s… easier to talk about, I suppose. Avatar does family so well and in so many ways but it’s easy to focus on those dynamics that are truly, heartbreakingly disturbed than those that are much closer to everyday experiences. I know you didn’t bring up Zuko and Azula or any other sibling duo but I think there’s this unspoken thing that everyone would talk about them first when it comes to sibling relationships. Or about the cloudbabies, or the airbending kids, or the other great dynamics. But Sokka and Katara? Their greatness lies in the fact that they are so true to everyday experiences.

Just like the other characters, they are still part of this magical world and a war-torn era and they go through some traumatic experiences as children. But at the end of the day, they are the closest we get to a typical dynamic, despite their personal tragedies clearly shaping them. Sokka and Katara are exactly the type of siblings that post described, and you did as well. I think you chose the perfect word there by saying that they’re realistic. They represent the essence of what it’s like to have a sibling and it’s glorious in its simplicity but also showcases so many different shades of the meaning of family throughout the series.

Sokka and Katara fight. Sokka tries to impress so many people and tries to act tougher than he is, but he never does succeed with Katara. She knows him; she’s known him her whole life. She knows where he’s vulnerable and insecure but also knows where he shines and what he’s genuinely the best at. His big boy act doesn’t work on her, both because she knows how immature he can be and both because she already knows what he’s capable of. She tells him off like no one else. Katara might not be the funniest or snarkiest of the Gaang but she throws shade at Sokka like an absolute pro. She’s not afraid to tell him off and go a bit harder on him than on anyone else. He annoys her.

She annoys him. She always has to be right about everything and she can’t help but run headfirst into trouble. Katara would rather risk their incredibly important mission than make the pragmatic choice and leave some Fire Nation citizens alone. She’s stubborn and self-righteous and her sudden rage makes one wonder if in a different life she was a firebender. Sokka’s only slightly older but still older and believes he knows best. His little sister gets carried away and then ruins the fun at the worst possible moments. He knows she can be cruel and he knows the scars of the war run deeper than anything her water could heal.

They bicker more than the other members of the Gaang but it never lasts. Just like real siblings, they can go from “you drive me crazy” to, like you said, “I would hide a body for you”. More than that, they would personally kill anyone who ever harmed the other. They snark each other better than anyone else could but hurt one and the other won’t hesitate to cut you down. They are brother and sister, after all, and family is everything for the Water Tribes. Annoying each other is part of the deal.

Katara acts like a mother towards most people. It’s a combination of her nature and the trauma of losing her own mother at a young age. She stood up and filled a hole at a young age so that others would have someone to rely on. She took on a role that would help her process things too. She started taking care of her older brother at such a young age and never thought twice about loving him with the power of two people combined. He says some infuriating things and needs to learn not to take her for granted, but she loves him anyway. And it’s not like Sokka loses his sister when Katara starts acting like a mother: they still fight and share responsibilities and she still teases him relentlessly. She’ll go further with him than anyone else, push him until she realizes that he’s truly upset. She’ll comfort him about his insecurities and cheer him up by going shopping. She’ll yell at him for taking her for granted but then realizes that she’s been taking him for granted. But it’s alright because they’re brother and sister and they’ll always forgive each other.

Sokka seems like the goofy guy who’ll also plan their greatest missions and be the voice of reason when they need him the most. But he’s also a warrior, a protector of the people. When their mother dies, Katara fills in that hole. When their father leaves, Sokka has to step up and protect the tribe. More importantly, protect his sister. He’ll make fun of her waterbending and stories and idealism, but when they find a stranger he’s distrustful because he doesn’t want her to get hurt. He’ll go along with her ridiculous missions because he would never leave her. Because he would tackle the Avatar, his friend, if he ever were to hurt his sister. People think Aang or Zuko would go mad with rage if anything ever happened to Katara, but it would be Sokka who would be unstoppable in his quest to bring her to safety.

They have so many great scenes together that it’s hard to choose which one to describe in detail. Many of them subtle, just the perfect representation of how their dynamic works. Luckily, they are on the top 15 Avatar relationships list so I will get to gif some of these and write about them some more (whenever I get there, they’re quite high up). But if I were to go with one scene for now? It has to be this.

This, because it’s so heartbreaking yet simple. They both tease each other but it’s usually Sokka who’s wittier and has the perfect response. But Katara is more emotional and careless with words and at her lowest points, she hurts those who are closest. She doesn’t mean it, of course. It’s just all that anger and pain and loss that she’s been feeling and the lack of it that she sees in her brother. It’s enough to make her cruel for a moment. It’s enough to shock Sokka. It’s enough to hurt both of them as they face their shared trauma. But it’s not enough to change anything between them. Sokka, a boy who barely remembers his own mother’s face because his sister has been there for him for so long. Katara, a girl who has been acting like a mother while so deeply missing her own. He forgives her without needing to say anything.

There’s the cliff scene from “The Runaway”, of course, and in many ways, that’s even more telling of their dynamic. I do love that as well, but this one from “The Southern Raiders” always strikes me as one that would only, and could only go down between siblings. I’d like to believe that there was an off-screen apology, but even without that, there’s a quiet understanding. Only a sibling would be willing to look over something like this. You could only say this to a sibling in the first place, but it goes beyond their shared trauma. It makes them even more realistic because sibling fights get ugly and they get personal, but they never stick.

They do represent what it means to have a sibling perfectly. They might not always like each other, but they love one another.

So you might have caused me to think a lot about these two. But thank you for that, because I love them so much and would write about them anytime. They are such an underrated dynamic amidst all the family drama and betrayal and reincarnated friendships and ugly love relationships. They aren’t perfect and aren’t as high-stakes but that’s what makes them so realistic. Their bond is deeper than a lot of people give them credit for. I remember the old days of Book 1 LoK fandom and how people talked just as much about Katara’s loss of Sokka as that of Aang. Because the latter might have been the love of her life but Sokka was her brother and no one could convince me that his death didn’t hurt just as much. It’s been years since I found out that Katara’s still alive and Sokka isn’t and the pain of thinking about that is still too much.

[fantastic-nonsense]

Late I know, but your "Remembrances" piece: Mako was never there for Korra The Avatar as Book 2 showed while Asami is/was there for Korra as BOTH exactly like Katara in not only being supportive of the job but taking care of Korra The Person in Ultimatum and caretaking in Venom. Like a superhero's spouse that knows of the double-life, Avatar's lover has to be there for BOTH sides not just one/when it's convenient which is why Makorra would NEVER work and why Korrasami, y'know BALANCE.

Okay…here we go.

First: hell yeah you’re late. Three years late, in fact. I wrote that post in the immediate aftermath of the finale back in 2014. It’s 2017. I haven’t interacted with the LOK fandom in a significant capacity in 2 ½ years, since I finally got tired of all the bullshit and fighting and hate. Second of all: you’re wrong and you should feel bad. Funnily enough, I’ve actually already addressed most of what you’ve said in various other posts that I’ve made. So here’s some links to those posts, and I’m going to give you a condensed response. 

On Asami being there for Korra: I’m just going to copy and paste from another response I did, because it makes my point much better than anything new I could ever write:

Where was Asami during the Water Tribe Civil War? Worrying about her company. Who was Korra being comforted by? Mako (or at least, he was attempting to, before they broke up), Tenzin, and Tonraq. Asami was on-screen with Korra for like two scenes during this timeframe. Asami is there and supportive at the beginning of Korra’s recovery, but then again, so is everyone else. We are given only a TINY glimpse into the beginning of that recovery; we don’t know how that went down. All we know is what happened afterwards. And afterwards, on-screen, Korra spent the majority of her recovery surrounded by her biological family, alone, with Toph, or with Mako. 

Who was there during the culmination of Korra’s mental and emotional recovery arc? Mako, not Asami. Mako was there to support her and be with her during her visit to Zaheer, not Asami. Where was Asami? We don’t know, because she got a grand total of two lines in the whole episode, and both of them were to Varrick. That honor went to Mako. You wanna talk about Asami being there for Korra, how about we talk about the conspicuous lack of being there for Korra in “Beyond the Wilds?”Apparently Asami designing the hummingbird mechas (even though Varrick was around) was more important to Bryke than having Asami be there for Korra…weird, since, you know, these girls got together four episodes later.

On Korra being there for Asami:

By the end of Book 4, Asami has now lost a) her mother, b) her father, c) her boyfriend (twice, both times to Korra), d) her company (though she gained it back through chance and blood, sweat, and tears), e) her home and f) all of the hard work she’s put into the city repairing and improving its infrastructure over the past three years. When does Korra comfort her about any of these things (besides the first time with her father, back in Book 1) before the last two minutes of the finale? 

Korra ‘stealing’ Asami’s boyfriend (and kissing Mako while he was in a relationship with Asami) is quite literally brushed off as “Well Mako.” Korra was busy with the Water Tribe Civil War when Asami was going through all of her company and financial troubles. Who was there for her? Mako and Bolin. Was the fact that the Colossus basically destroyed Republic City and all of the infrastructure that Asami worked so hard on even brought up in conversation? Nope. And Asami’s father merits two lines (“I’m so sorry about your father.” “I don’t think I could have handled losing my father and you in the same day.”) and a hug. Like, I’m sorry, this girl has just lost her father. Why is she even at this wedding? No one would fault her for not showing up. Hiroshi’s funeral isn’t given even a passing mention. It’s implied that the wedding is super soon after the main events of the finale, given that Raiko’s only begun to talk about rebuilding and the city’s still in ruins.

And Mako was legitimately with Korra for every high and low point Korra ever had. Losing her bending? He was there. Getting her bending back? He was there immediately afterwards. Winning the pro-bending tournament? He was right beside her. Fighting Unavaatu? He’s in the Spirit World either distracting Eska and Desna so Korra could focus on Unalaq or protecting Korra’s body from getting killed by corrupted spirits. Taken hostage by the Red Lotus? He’s there leading the charge to rescue her. Confronting Zaheer and working on her mental and spiritual recovery? He’s right there beside her to encourage her or wait outside as she requested. Excepting her ‘Korra Alone’ journey, he was with her the whole way. He was with her as the Avatar and as Korra, and I would love for you to tell me how he wasn’t “there” for Korra in Book 2. 

Like lmao, “like a superhero’s spouse, the Avatar’s lover has to be there for both sides of the person”. Uh…that’s exactly what I was complaining about with that Remembrances post? That Asami WASN’T “there” for Korra as a person? Like…thank you for reiterating my point?

On Asami being Katara and filling Katara’s role: Haha…no. That’s actually the funniest thing I’ve heard in quite a long time. Nah son: Mako is Katara in this scenario, not Asami. ‘Mothering’ the group and all. Mako and Katara is the closest analog between the Gaang and the Krew we have, actually (which is funny, since Mako was originally supposed to be a kind of ‘Zuko-lite’ character). Both are family-oriented characters who essentially act as the parent for their sibling (who fills the comic-relief role) and dedicate their lives to protecting people and the Avatar. Both grow massively as people, carry heirlooms of their dead parents, are bending prodigies, and witnessed a traumatic event at a young age that they carry with them the rest of their life. There’s tons of other parallels I could make too, about their function within their respective groups, but I’m leaving it at that. If Asami has a parallel within ATLA, it would probably be a mix of Suki and Mai, not Katara.

And if you’re going to draw parallels between Katara and Asami based on their ‘caring natures’ and how they were ‘always there for Aang/Korra’, see this post I’ve already made on the subject, where I was asked if Mako going with Korra in “Beyond the Wilds” was basically like LOK’s “The Southern Raiders” episode.

 tl;dr version: 

This is completely different in the case of Beyond the Wilds. Asami does not even have the choice of accompanying Korra. There is no ‘I should stay behind; take Mako with you instead.’ There is no drastic choice between two ideologies for Korra to make. This is a matter of personal healing for Korra due to a traumatizing event done to her person with the intention of hurting and killing her personally. She is going to confront a man who destroyed her, body and spirit. That is an important event. And Asami apparently doesn’t even know about it.

Mako, the man who has seen Korra at both her absolute highest and all of her lowest points, is the one that goes with Korra to confront Zaheer. He plays the role of both Zuko and Aang, by coming with her for support and understanding but also stepping back and trusting her to make her own choices and decisions. Asami may as well be a distant penpal Korra’s never met for all ‘Beyond the Wilds’ and Korra’s spiritual healing arc is concerned. She has no advice, she has no role, and she has no impact on the entire situation.

Also “Avatar’s lover has to be there for BOTH sides not just one/when it’s convenient which is why Makorra would NEVER work and why Korrasami, y'know BALANCE” like no? There is no balance in the Korrasami relationship and they were never really there for each other, and I’m still wondering why the fuck you came into my inbox three years too late with this stupid ask that showed me that you obviously didn’t watch the show, since I can apparently remember events and interactions better three years later than you can?