I think the discussion about if loli guys are into actual children misses the point tbh. Even when they’re well aware that it’s not actual children and they don’t WANT it to be and they’re specifically into the non-realism of it…. A lot of loli (and moe, which is not unrelated since it’s rooted in the aesthetics of it but applied outside the specific genre) in anime is still about this fantasy of women as helpless and innocent and needing to rely on you and, above all, not having real world problems. Granted, a lot of romantic fantasy is like that, arguably especially stuff about women aimed at men…. But I think that is what personally makes me not really want to deal with guys who are super into it that in my own personal life. Like, let’s not pretend that a certain kind of guy getting used to expecting women to be like that in anime and video games hasn’t had some real consequences for women in nerd culture who insist on being full human beings over like, the past decade and a half lol. Like it’s just hard to imagine that being the fantasy of a guy who specifically wants a take-charge, dominant, independent kind of woman over like…. Idk, lady villains stepping on his face or something, lol
I’m hardcore anti-censorship and don’t believe that preferences in romantic or sexual fantasy in fiction has an exact relationship to what we want in real life…. But it seems strange and anti-intellectual to argue that media *never* has that influence. Like, just divorce this from arguments about porn and “problematic shipping” for a second. There are a ton of people, of multiple genders but especially over age 20 or so they’re more likely to be men, who seem to think that if they’re friendly enough to someone of their preferred gender (or really, opposite gender, since this is based on an “everyone of my preferred gender is a potential partner” norm that people into the same gender just can’t assume) they’ll eventually reciprocate their feelings, or they *should*. The Nice Guy thing. Do you really think that the numerous romantic comedies that have that as a dynamic, or the video games whose “romance” mechanic is “give them gifts and talk to them enough and they’ll eventually be a love interest possibility,” doesn’t play into that at least somewhat? Like, we’re all smart enough to know that Stardew Valley and Harvest Moon aren’t like real life romance, I think…. But did you know that yet when you were 13? Do you think *everybody* who plays those knows that?
Take it out of the context of romance at all. If you’re a lawyer, how many times have you heard people who have misconceptions about what you do based on legal dramas? Or for doctors, about medical dramas?
And that doesn’t put any responsibility on the creators to change stuff (I mean, the “reward = romance” thing is just a very easy video game mechanic for instance, and programming in something that more closely resembles actual romance would be impossible, and it’s not like it’s any less realistic than like, how you fish or mine or farm in those games), it’s still on consumers to think critically (again, that the video game that has you fighting slime monsters in mines or where you grow broccoli in just a few days and harvesting crops is just one click isn’t going for realism perhaps. People wring their hands about the general popularity of farming games like it’s yearning for some political/cultural thing, and forget that the specific fantasy is it without all the toil. Just like plenty of people love playing restaurant games who work(ed) in restaurants irl and hate(d) it). But like, we talk about “society” influencing people in terms of stuff like racism and sexism. Mass media is part of society. This is why a lot of feminist criticism over the years has focused on critiquing broad patterns that recur in media, to the point that they become societal trends — and a lot of people take this in *unconsciously*.
I think what that one earlier anon meant with “especially with porn” is that porn shouldn’t be like, an exception to this. It’s kind of weird how people who are all for media analysis of problematic patterns in other kinds of media think it suddenly doesn’t apply if it’s media designed for the purpose of getting off. And sure plenty of us are into things in porn we have no desire for IRL (I love mpreg and I love kidfic, I have less than zero desire to have kids and especially be pregnant irl, to the point that it’s actually a squick for me in *het* fic), plenty of people are into specifically the fantasy version minus the Issues they have with that stuff in the IRL version. But… that’s not everyone. Some people’s porn preferences do match up with what they’re into irl. Even when they don’t, as with the loli example there’s often some other particular reason they like that
I don’t think it’s right to go around asking strangers to go around explaining their porn preferences to you, but I think it’s fair to think about it yourself (in the interest of introspection if nothing else), and to critique broad patterns in fandom, same as we would for any other kind of media. Why is porn the special exception for which all the other rules about 101 media analysis don’t apply?
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OK, but hear me out
Say Ride the Cyclone were to be adapted into a film; imagine how much fun it would be to see it animated.
Because for the main plot, like the intro song and the mostly dialogue scenes in limbo, you could easily do a stylistic, but still grounded in realism style that a lot of modern animated projects are doing right now (think Arcane or Into the Spider Verse). But once each of the kids go into their respective songs/fantasies for what their life could have been? What if those were done in completely different styles?? Imagine the additional, visual storytelling that would tell about who they are as characters?
Like say, for Ocean's number, WTWN, everything became more simplified, and the characters (especially Ocean herself) turned into a more rounded, chibi-like style to enhance just how cutesy and likeable she's trying to portray herself throughout that number.
Or for Noel's Lament, everything goes black and white, and the characters become even more 2D stylized, and the film scales down to a smaller millimeter frame, more reminiscent of cartoons from the early 20's, when animation was just starting out, to enhance his idealization of "the olden days" (as Ocean puts it).
Mischa's song, This Song is Awesome could be animated with a more choppy frame rate, and the character designs turn a little more jagged around the edges, kind of like animated music videos (I'm thinking a Gorillaz band vibe). But as he transitions into singing about Talia, the colors start to bleed out over their lineart, and become more paint-like and Talia herself moves like a rotoscoped character (think Loving, Vincent that came out a few years ago) to enhance the sense that she's somewhere between a real person and a fantasy Mischa's built in his mind.
Ricky's song would, of course, be stylized after those sci-fi cartoons from the 90's, like X-Men or Captain Planet.
For the Ballad of Jane Doe, I would love to see something like what Wolfwalkers did back in 2020, where most of the characters (in this case, the other kids) are for the most part, animated like traditional, 2D characters with very clean lines and neat movements, whereas Jane herself stands out for having messier, sketchy line art, and looks more and more unfinished in her animation as the song goes on, because she can feel more and more of her own identity being lost.
Constance's Sugar Cloud I could see done in the classic 2D Disney style (i.e., the Renaissance era of Disney, like the Lion King or Little Mermaid days) because not only is it really smooth and colorful and just all around nice to look at, but it reminds the average moviegoer of their childhood growing up with those movies (among others, obviously), which ties in nicely with Constance's preceding monologue about remembering her own life, and the good that came with the bad.
I'm even tempted to envision the first half of the finale song in a different style, when the stage production would show a quick projection of Jane/Penny's life after she returned to the world of the living. Imagine watching this animated film, and for that segment alone, it becomes that really hyper-realistic, almost uncanny valley CGI animation style, to show that she really has joined the world of the living, i.e. our world, among us, the living breathing movie goers watching this, and watching the other kids still in limbo fade back to that main art style for the final number.
I don't know; it just feels like something that would be so engaging to see from an already compelling storyline and characters. Especially with more experimental animation projects on the rise right now
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i always feel bad when i see how the point of a lot of saiki's personality traits flew right over the heads of a lot of fans due to him being an unreliable narrator and a tsundere lol.. so a lot of things he says are immediately proved to be untrue and often just him putting up a front, but some people dont pick up on it..
like i see a lot of "haha saiki would never want to watch a romance movie" guys there is an entire chapter (170) dedicated to him being like "i much prefer mysteries to romance stories.." and then immediately becoming absolutely enamored with a romance story.. he was lying, guys, LMAO
less specific ones include:
"i hate children, they annoy me" *goes out of his way to help kids, comfort them, be kind to them, etc.*
"i only use my powers for self gain/my own convenience." "anyway my mama told me to never use my powers selfishly so i always use them to help people and i try my best not to use them for personal gain<3"
"those guys are so annoying, i would never hang out with them willingly." "yeah it took them about two sentences to convince me to go with them. their thoughts seemed like they really wanted me to go, so i did. i didnt want them to be upset. not that i care about them or anything."
(sorry i post about this kind of thing a lot, i just giggle a lot at how the entire manga is so easily misinterpreted and thousands of people have watched the show but didnt pick up on the main characters most defining character traits and frequent bits.. i think there needs to be a masterlist or something disproving all the extremely common misconceptions about saiki k lol)
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Kawi is a perfect Cartoon Character filmed in BL
We were talking about comedy acting of gmm actors in our discord, and I understandably went on a rant about Krist's comedic performance in Be My Favorite (because his dramatic acting is good but he chose such a unique delicious comedy to give to Kawi, and I've been obsessed with it since the very first episode so let me bring it here too xD)
I was so surprised and intrigued when I saw Kawi in BMF, because in the beginning of the series Kawi looks funny. Unhinged. Unserious. AND IT DOES NOT LOOK CRINGE! (fight me)
For me it's something that's so easy to fuck up, and Thai comedies just love being silly-cringe on purpose (I'm sorry, I have to admit, I get second hand embarrassment often when watching unserious scenes in BLs). But Kawi. He's just. So excitingly funny for the viewers. Krist created his behavior with such a careful nuance, he gave us the first impression of Kawi so nicely, that a non-social immature main character who easily could get 'EW noo' reaction from viewers, is just a very adorable weird fool you can't help but keep watching to see in what kind of trash situations he'll end up.
I think here's a huge reason why: Kawi looks and feels like a cartoon character. I don't even know how Krist did it, I worked as 2d/3d animator and artist for some time in the past and I deliberately tried to make myself act like a cartoon character to film references for animation, so let me tell you – it's HARD xD
Disclaimer: i'm not big professional, just a freelancer so my terms might not be official, i'm just describing what i've learnt from professionals, these are basic things
I think Krist said it himself somewhere in bts that it was his deliberate choice and hard work but Kawi is absolutely animated in a very cartoonish way, but he also calms down and matures throughout the whole series, his movements become more gentle, fluid and less loud. It's such a difficult way to smoothly change the character and it's a hard work for the actor, if you consider that episodes and scenes aren't usually filmed chronologically.
The first episode of BMF is like the epitome of Kawi As Cartoon Character (remember Kawi stealing Pisaeng's clothes scene, the dancing, fighting the gangster, everything) and it works really great to establish that comedic introduction and fool us all into thinking this is just a silly comedic BL show and not a very complicated, profound and mature series as it turned out to be :D
I dissect for myself why this happens, what Krist makes:
Loud hyperactive movements (wide animated gestures, compared to all other characters behaving like adults in real world; think of Stage Persona and theatrics)
Action lines and curves (compare Pisaeng and Kawi on screenshots, think how Pisaeng would hold his hand out and look how Kawi is posing. Krist said they rehearsed poses in that scene a lot, and I really believe it. He stretches out arms a bit too far away, he bends more than usual person, he cranes his neck, he makes just perfect action lines throughout his whole body. When you want to make a cartoon character out of someone's photo, you exaggerate and smooth out posture so the motion would be felt, and Krist just does it in real life)
Fast movements ending up in an abrupt VERY ART-LIKE POSE, and quick change of sharp poses (it's a base rule for good artists to make characters have a clear pose, so you would be able to guess what's going on from only the silhouette). It's probably not a natural way to stand in front of the camera, but Krist often turns his body just enough to have very recognizable silhouettes (enhanced by directing from P'Waa probably)
He exaggerates emotions like a comic character as well; wide eyes, mouth, furrowed eyebrows or extreme pout; even his voice is loud, he shouts and yells louder than anyone else in the series. Of course, only when he's comfortable (with Pisaeng, with Magic Uncle, sometimes with Max). When Kawi isn't comfortable, Krist makes him small, roll into himself, speak quieter and softer, while still having cute gestures like fidgeting.
Cartoonish character compliments Kawi's childish behavior so well, it adds cuteness and stops viewers from rolling their eyes
KAWI LITERALLY IS ACCOMPANIED BY CARTOON SOUND EFFECTS IN THE SERIES, I mean - Pisaeng sometimes gets his sound effect of something breaking, u know like huh??, but if you listen, so many actions and gestures of Kawi are followed by various cartoon sounds. All the time. Even when he gets more mature and reaches zen, they are still present, just not as often.
And that dance? Might not be truly something cartoons would have, but it's so unhinged and quick and childishly weird, Kawi is almost literally operating at 24fps there, the flashing lighting helps a lot as well xD
(overall, think about famous tiktok videos of a girl acting like a disney character irl but if i'm not wrong, there's also a technique of slowing and speeding up the video/audio, and Krist simply acts like that in front of the camera. fascinating)
Krist's work on Kawi's comedic behavior is just chef's kiss, even if you didn't know the plot, just by seeing Kawi in random scenes, you'd know it's a whole character arc just reflected through the body. Which is, I guess, what acting is about xD But it is SO RARE to see for me in BLs and Thai's lakorns, and maybe I just don't watch a lot of comedy series but I'm extremely impressed with how great that cartoonish Kawi looks, from an artist point of view.
I think the other character from BLs close to this feeling would be Sky from Love in the Air. If you know others, please let me know!
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on my knees gripping my head hnngggg i thought abt bellumbeck too hard
tag ramblings are fun and on brand but i have too many disorganized thoughts and tags are limiting.
anyways thinking too hard abt him is an extremely good and fun thing but i cannot draw the way i wish and can't really put my thoughts into fic form so this is very much going to be a fun ramble.
bellumbeck drives me insane we all know this. he showed up in my dream last night as of writing this sentence so he is on my mind, which is surprising bc fictional stuff doesn't usually show up coherently in my dreams but there it was.
it's so incredibly fun to think about bellumbeck. he's such a black sheep of a loz final boss, there really isnt another loz final boss like him in concept or even in 1:1 tone imo. it's so fun to take bellumbeck incredibly darkly seriously.
to be fair bellumbeck is kind of objectively a fairly dark and disturbing final boss on a conceptual level, and it's not really out of nowhere since phantom hourglass has at least a little darkness running through it even if the general tone of the game doesn't really acknowledge or take advantage of it. but if you think about it hard enough even without getting into post-game speculation in regards to what happens with linebeck, bellumbeck is kind of a dark boss and it's great. full on screen demonic possession of a major character with most of the cast incapacitated and link isolated with no escape on the ruins of the ghost ship that started everything and facing a boss that is constantly facing him and both someone he's been with the whole adventure and also the creature that's captured his friends and killed who knows how many people.
it's so oooouuuugghhhh it's so much fun to think about bellumbeck even though it's such a short encounter. it's so... the mystery around bellum, the way linebeck is built up throughout the game and saves link directly before getting possessed, the fucking on-screen vaguely violent possession (i am forever obsessed with the way bellum grabs and tugs on his arms), the way ciela is captured early into the fight, too, the first companion character you meet and, if you had her equipped, it leaves you without a fairy that follows your cursor around for the first time all game, it's very... congrats you and your friends are at rock bottom! good luck getting everyone out of there alive!!!!
of course it's not quite that because this game is geared a bit more towards younger players, but still keeps those streaks of darkness and complexity just simply because they're inevitable parts of this story and it's characters. bellumbeck. i'm talking about bellumbeck. what a soulsborne-ass final boss, huh?
there's only so much a ds game can do in terms of boss animations, but i think a lot about more complicated movements and animations for bellumbeck, so, so much character can be communicated through a boss's animations. in my mind, i enjoy bellumbeck movements with an emphasis on puppet-like flourishes and mannerisms, and an emphasis on weight with how he fights. these two go very well together, and its something i love imagining.
with the latter, an emphasis on weight, would ideally focus on the sword (and im a fan of it being this huge greatsword, reading berserk got me around to liking it because you can do that really well) and how it has to be used one-handed, with bellumbeck leveraging his own weight against it and taking advantage of momentum to use it especially effectively to turn link into a little green and red smear on the wood. attacks blending into each other as he builds up momentum, and using that weight primarily against link, who is a small opponent who relies on rolling around and can’t really stack up at all in terms of brute force.
i imagine this kind of physicality and movement would lend itself very well to bellumbeck also having more puppet-like movements, being a little too tugged-along by his attacks but still retaining his footing, his free arm being just a little too limp a little too often, and his leaning away from his sword side, likely with the intention to properly balance himself out, looks off with how his head lolls unnaturally to that side. the puppetry effect lessens as the fight wears on and bellum gets the hang of the body he’s using, but never actually goes away since he’s not looking to act properly human anyways.
just like... movement flourishes and details that could add a whole lot to the overall experience of bellumbeck that i think about often.
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