#if you think zionists are evil and zionism is wrong

[whitesunlars]

maybe tumblr will listen if i speak its language: remember in 2020 when we all had to sit down and realize that everyone has internalized racism? that everyone has prejudices even if they don't realize it? being antisemitic is more than sitting around wearing a swastika saying you want jews to die. take a look inside yourself and you'll find antisemitism there, too. it's time to address it.

[menlove]

honestly i think a HUGE part of the issue is that most of the left doesn't really understand antisemitism

after wwii it became wildly Unpopular to be blatantly antisemitic. obviously, it still happened. but the result of this is that instead of antisemitism being studied as a historical and pervasive form of oppression that has been around for thousands of years & has many many precedents BEFORE the holocaust.... it became:

something just simply Rude to say or do. if you're a polite liberal/conservative or a leftist, it's just something that is socially unacceptable. there is no real weight to this.

something when FIRMLY believed is ONLY held by people like nazis and white supremacists. who, as we know, are The Enemy and none of us can ever be like them at all ever by the virtue of... not being them. no need to watch your own behaviors, bc you are not a nazi! only nazis could ever be Actually antisemitic

something that erupted out of the ground in germany in the early 20th century, culminated with the holocaust, and ended after. antisemitism did not exist before that and it was solved after when the saving grace of the united states and england liberated the jews from the nazis out of the goodness of their hearts

however absolutely none of this is true. antisemitism stretches back thousands of years and it has not, for the most part, been only "fringe" conspiracy theorists and white supremacists who perpetuate it

antisemitism has been, by and large, presented as very logical. throughout, again, the thousands of years of history of antisemitism, very regular people have been antisemites. and most of them had reasons they felt were perfectly logical and understandable and most of all just. jews were trying to kill their children, of course they hated them! jews were purposefully trying to keep them poor, of course they hated them! jews believed Wrong Things and were morally and spiritually corrupt, of course there was something wrong with them. jews betrayed their country, lost them a war that ended with their husbands and brothers and sons dead, and now were living among them and taking advantage of social benefits out of the goodness of the hearts of the german people, of COURSE they hated them! and the nazis themselves were backed up by science at the time. scientific racism was THE science at the time. charles darwin was a scientific racist. it was all very logical.

and did jews actually do these things? no. but these people saw enough proof that aligned well enough with their morals and their beliefs and their fears & so to them it was completely logical and justified. it wasn't a fringe theory that only an insane person would believe in, or something impolite. it was true to them. to their morals, to their fears, to their core beliefs. it was true.

and so now we see a LOT. a lot of leftists being dragged ass first into antisemitism. because they don't even think they CAN be antisemitic. THEY aren't nazis and THEY aren't white supremacists, of COURSE they aren't antisemitic. but... well. the jews are doing things that go against their morals. they're doing things that validate their fears. the jews are violating things that go against their core beliefs! so of COURSE it is LOGICAL that they should hate them. of course, it is still rude to say "the jews are evil" so it gets replaced with "zionist". (and before you ask yes i am anti-zionism and do deeply believe what israel is doing is unjust and cruel) but even that is slipping.

it is getting all the more popular to go that one step further and instead of just making posts like "spam the hanukkah tag because the Zionists need to learn what their religion stands for" that are blatantly just replacing "jews" with "zionists", they are logically moving to being mask off. if zionism is wrong and half the world's remaining jewish population lives in israel, what about the rest? aren't they suspect? would they not ALL commit atrocities if given the chance? aren't they all racist for believing they're an ethnicity? aren't they all complicit? aren't they all threatening our deeply held leftist beliefs? it's a little weird and everyone has been too quiet for too long bc it's been rude to say but now you can get 300k notes for posting blood libel so why would you keep quiet anymore?

why WOULDN'T you just say "thank god someone finally said it i was worried about stepping on toes" when someone makes a post full of antisemitic conspiracy theory. why WOULDN'T you say "i don't care if all of israel gets bombed and every single person dies after this lmfao they deserve it"? (which would wipe out, again, half the world's population of jews- many of whom living there are anti-zionist and actively protesting their government. or. you know. children.) why WOULDN'T you make posts about how jewish identity is just nazi aryanism? why wouldn't you make posts about how the jews are privileged in america bc they run hollywood and the economy? why WOULDN'T you say the star of david is a hate symbol to you now and that you mistrust anyone using it? or that you find anyone speaking hebrew suspect?

these are all perfectly logical. to you. and YOU are not a nazi or a white supremacist. so it can't be antisemitic.

[koheletgirl]

Would love to hear about how you became an anti Zionist!

before i get into this, i'd like to direct you to some of @jewishvitya's posts: [x] [x] [x]. i think their perspective is more relevant to the current situation than mine, and they address issues that i won't get into here because they had no personal relevance to me and you asked about me.

so my family is considered left-wing in israel. my parents voted for ha'avoda (israeli labor) in most elections i can remember, my mom even went "as far" as voting for meretz (as far as jewish parties go, they're the furthest to the left. still zionist though. didnt get enough votes to get into the knesset in the last elections). i grew up mourning rabin, hating bibi before i even knew who he was, believing that the settlements are the source of all israeli wrongdoings. in 2005 people would put ribbons on their cars – green if you support dismantling the settlements in gaza, orange if you're against it. we had a green ribbon. my family talks about the two states solution, about going back to the '67 borders. my grandmother jokingly calls herself a "leftist traitor", because that's how the right labels them.

i grew up with these values. i was taught to value human life, i was taught that all people were equal, i was taught that nationalism and imperialism were wrong. we weren't afraid of talking about the occupation. we weren't afraid of calling israeli fascism what it was. you might have heard about the democracy protests that have been happening in israel in the past year; my parents went every week.

i think this is why it took me so long to break out of my zionist worldview. people talk about zionism as if it's explicitly genocidal and built on racial supremacy, and i understand why (and agree with this to an extent), but you have to understand how absurd this idea sounds to people like my parents. they don't think zionism is the issue, they think the israeli right is. they acknowledge the evils of the settlers in the west bank, but they would never consider themselves settlers. it's very easy to see the wrongness of a person going to someone's house and violently kicking a family out of there because they believe it should belong to them (not a hypothetical, this is happening in the west bank as we speak); it's a lot harder to think that maybe everything you were taught to believe about your own right to be here was a lie from the beginning.

and that's the problem, that it is a lie. we are literally taught there was nothing here. swamps and malaria and sand and sand. the zionists built a civilization out of nothing. that's the story, that's the myth.

another aspect of this that's essential to acknowledge is the dehumanization of palestinians in israel, which is still prevalent in leftist circles, despite taking a different form. the israeli left Loves to make the distinction between palestinians and "israeli arabs" - a term that some people that i have met have used for themselves, and i am not the right person to speak on (i'm sure there's nuance here i'm unaware of). these people don't think of themselves as racists. they don't mind arabs in general, they only mind "the arabs who want to harm us". and it's so easy for them to pat themselves on the back because they have plenty of arab friends and they actively oppose the goverment's racism; but they all draw the line when it comes to palestinians. to them, once a person calls themselves a palestinian, it means they believe jews have no right to exist here. it means their existence is at odds with their own. they don't see palestinians as people, they see them as an agenda.

i was going to add a bit about how the israeli left's aversion to religion (which stems from the influence orthodox jews currently have on israeli law) plays into this, but this is getting really long.

anyway. for me, it wasn't a revelation as much as it was a willingness to open my eyes to the fact that everything i had been taught was a lie. it was always there, this doubt, this uneasiness. i knew that there were a lot of people over the world whose opinions i generally agreed with – except when it came to israel. it just took me a really long time to be able to doubt Everything.

because that required tearing down everything my worldview was based on, everything i had believed in, and it was scary. it's a very, very difficult thing to do. not knowing what to believe is horrifying. realizing you have believed in lies your whole life is horrifying.

but at some point i had to ask myself: how can i hate everything this country stands for, and not doubt what it's taught me? how can i know what i know about the idf, and still believe it's acting humanely? and the thing is, i still don't know what to believe a lot of the time. i still doubt everything, all the time. i'm critical of all of my beliefs, and i think it's good to be. but i listen, and i look, and i feel, and above all i try to be compassionate. and there's only one stance you can take here if you value human life above all else.

here are some israel-based organizations that influenced my political views and i recommend checking out (even though i have my disagreements with them): b'tselem, standing together, breaking the silence, mesarvot

[wander-wren]

almost escaped the anti-ao3 posts this donation round but of course today i get smacked with a few, so i go hunting for this year’s arguments, which, as expected, touch a lot on palestine.

what i’m seeing here is a shitton of inflammatory language and very few sources, and even fewer sources that aren’t screenshots of That One Tweet. most of the arguments from both sides are made on things that aren’t entirely true. i dislike this. so let’s clear the air a bit, hm?

1) ao3 is a racist/zionist organization

ao3 has had its scandals, including the 2023 management scandal in its full glory, which you can read about at the linked fanlore article. that covers several different areas where ao3 messed up. i will not defend these instances. i will, however, point out that very few of the current anti-ao3 posts mention them.

additionally, there is this fanlore article specifically about the issue wherein a volunteer was told to remove “from the river to the sea, palestine will be free” from their status, which is the singular piece of evidence referenced for ao3’s zionism. it has been spread that the otw banned or kicked out this volunteer, which is untrue; they left voluntarily. the otw also offered to allow the volunteer in question to change the status to “i stand with palestine,” communicating the same message in a less polarizing way.

you are allowed to dislike this decision. i do. but the otw slack is first and foremost a professional space, and they are within their rights to ask for political discussion to be kept out—or, in this case, to a politics channel so it can be opted out of. i am not currently aware of anyone having asked the otw board to ban or otherwise address pro-israel sentiments in the slack server, so i cannot actually make any statements about unequal decisions, because those decisions were not made.

ultimately i do not disagree that otw/ao3 have made poor choices rooted in racism in the past, but i also believe many of these posts discussing it now are performative, inflammatory, and misleading, which is not helpful

2) donating to ao3 during a genocide is bad/selfish/racist/etc

there are always problems in the world. this is literally the same argument as every previous year with new paint on it. people can care about more than one thing.

3) ao3 is a scam/mismanages money/gets more than they need/is horrible for not paying volunteers

here is a post i made last year breaking down ao3’s budget. what’s funny is, i saw a post going on for paragraphs about how they “calculated” that ao3 has 2.8 million in reserves (assuming their 2023 numbers shook out, it is like $1.5 million at best. these numbers are public and easy to find) and that they have “no idea” what to do with it and are deliberately not being transparent about it (they have publicly stated in news posts exactly what that money is for).

one very confusingly-worded post seemed to argue that it is morally wrong to have volunteer library workers, which is the same as ao3? something about master’s degrees? i just thought that was funny because. like. what. do you think the volunteers are the ones with a master’s in library science, friend?

also, people have said it’s a scam because they don’t update the site, and i’m like….what do you want them to update, exactly? i just want more tags wrangled. i suppose that translates to me wanting an update on the servers or whatever bit of hardware is limiting the tag system. otherwise i don’t see why you have to fix a good thing.

4) ao3 hosts evil bad fanfiction

ah, the age-old “child porn” argument. or racism is a big one this year. do i have to get into this one? it’s so goddamn annoying. just read the about page or a wiki article with your eyes. anti-censorship. yada yada yada. also, if you use the phrase “child porn” i do not respect you or take you seriously.

okay, first of all, fanfiction does not meet the definition of csam. it’s fanfiction. it’s fiction. there are tags for a reason. none of it is illegal. most of it has been published in real books for money before. you can hate it, but it deserves to exist, and with the way explicit material is getting deleted off the internet (see: wattpad’s new policies, google drive’s new policies), ao3 is a last bastion in the storm.

5) you should check out end-otw-racism for more helpful info

honestly i thought this movement was dead by now, but i’ve seen a lot of it mentioned today so i went to check. some things i found, scrolling alllll the way back to august:

a pinned post from SEVEN months ago that is several paragraphs of back-patting from the mods about how much “work” and “goals” have been accomplished and how grateful they are to the community. no mention whatsoever of what those goals were or what specifically was accomplished. also says the mods are going on break for a while, which presumably is still in effect

a few posts about the otw’s board meetings for various months, each rehashing how a board meeting runs and when the next one is being held. no information about what questions or comments the organization wants to focus on for each meeting or specific actions supporters should take

post about substack being a nazi site now (this is the only post i fully respect)

more board meeting reminders of no substance

a post reviewing the board elections, going over each candidate. the post acknowledges that no candidates mentioned the campaign or its specific goals, and instead grasps at vaguely related topics as if to show the volunteers are listening to them and they have done something

more board meeting reminders

a post about an update to the board’s strategic plan for 2023, which also acknowledges that the update does not really do anything end-otw-racism wanted it to do. many instances of “could have been a great opportunity to” do what they wanted. this one DOES finally state eotwr’s “recommendations” for the next strategic plan update, which literally all boil down to “more transparency,” which i suppose is fair enough

absolutely NO mention of palestine whatsoever

post on the weibo scandal, which is fine but generic, and again, not something brought up ever again despite being made in AUGUST

here i will give you a reminder that some of eotwr’s goals, particularly the ones around moderation and censorship, were unrealistic given the otw’s mission. while i believe eotwr started with good intentions, it seems to have rapidly dissolved into something performative and did not have solid enough organization to actually make any difference. their silence on palestine (and they are still posting despite the “break”) also makes bringing them up in convos about otw’s potential zionist leanings very weird.

at the end of the day, support ao3 or don’t. your morals and reasonings are your own. just don’t lie about them in ways that can be easily disproved, mkay?

this discourse also made me realize it’s been a minute since i reblogged a proper donations masterpost for palestine, so i am on the hunt for a good, up-to-date one now. feel free to link me any you know of.

[alarajrogers]

This is long. I've been percolating on it a while.

As usual, when I see a discussion going on that has no nuance, where two sides have been staked out and any suggestion that one side has a point is taken as full support for the other side and everything they do... I feel compelled to try to point out the nuances. This is likely to get me a lot of nastygrams in response, possibly from both sides, but I can't take the lack of nuance any longer.

First, let's begin with this. The government of Israel is committing atrocities. Full stop. There is no way to minimize this. Nothing the civilian population of Palestine has done or could ever do would justify the Israeli government's response here. Israel, as a state, are unmitigated bad guys in this situation. Just like my country, the USA, were unmitigated bad guys for invading Iraq on flimsy pretenses and committing atrocities in the process. A nation doing terrible things doesn't mean the people of that nation are terrible. I pointed this out when the government of Russia chose to invade Ukraine. In democracies, like the US and Israel, the people bear more responsibility than in dictatorships, but as a person who protested the Iraq War and tried to vote out the president responsible for it, I am deeply, deeply uncomfortable with the idea that all the citizens of a democracy are responsible for the actions of its government.

And I am flat out appalled by the notion that non-citizens with no vote should be held responsible; treating Jews as synonymous with the current Israeli government and its awful decisions is like the US rounding up Japanese-Americans and putting them in camps because the Japanese government attacked the US. It was wrong then, it's wrong now, and if you come from an English-speaking country and you're white, 90% chance you come from a country that committed similar atrocities in the course of expanding an empire or colonizing land that didn't belong to it. (I think the Irish, Scottish and Welsh are exceptions; I do not know of any others.)

If you blame Jews worldwide for the actions of Israel, you are a shithead, and if you come from the US, England, Canada, Australia or New Zealand, you are also a hypocritical shithead. France and Germany and Spain, yes, still a hypocritical shithead. Was your nation ever a colonial power? Then if you blame Jews worldwide for Israel's actions, you are a hypocritical shithead.

More to say, possibly more inflammatory, under the cut.

I have seen people I follow saying things like "We should treat Zionists in leftist spaces the way we treat TERFs, they should have no place with us." A lot of "denounce Zionism." A lot of "Zionism is evil."

I have also seen, on the flip side, the disgusting behavior of governments and institutions punishing people for making the argument that Israel should not be murdering Palestinian civilians. This is awful, and inhumane. The people of Palestine have done nothing to deserve this; the existence of terrorists committing atrocities in their name does not justify a civilian population being murdered. As an American, I feel very strongly that I would like to not be murdered for what the CIA did in South America, okay? And frankly, all Americans and anyone from any kind of colonial power should feel the same way, so this behavior where our governments and institutions give Israel free reign to murder civilians is despicable.

But Zionism does not mean "supporting every horrible thing Israel ever did." It means the belief that Jews need and deserve a homeland of their own, that the best place for that homeland is Israel, and as a result Israel has the right to self defense. (Self defense, y'all, is not a euphemism for "murder civilians." In fact murdering civilians usually is antithetical to self defense, because it radicalizes the civilian population against you. You don't fight terrorists with bombs unless your goal is to make more terrorists. Which I actually think Netanyahu's goal is, because he is a right wing war hawk who wants an excuse to commit atrocities against Palestine. That's not good for Israel, but it's good for a right wing war hawk who wants to stay in power.)

I've seen a lot of arguments that Israel are colonizers. Technically it's true but that word has certain baggage due to the motives and behavior of 90% of the world's colonizers. Specifically, when white imperialists marched in to territories occupied by other people, took them over, and killed, enslaved, drove off or ruled over the people who were already there:

The motive was greed, folks. Want, take, have. We're allowed to have everything because we're white. Nothing about "we need this or people will keep killing us."

It wasn't territory they had ever held. Territory associated with them in the lore of the world's biggest religions? Nope. It wasn't territory they'd ever had at all.

They did the colonizing themselves. A third party didn't colonize and then hand it over to them.

Israel's situation is different for multiple reasons.

For 2000 years, Jews have not been treated as full and equal citizens of anywhere they tried to live; those 2000 years have contained so many instances of Jews being murdered en masse, or driven out and all their stuff stolen, I don't think we have an accurate count of how many times it happened.

Anywhere that Jews were treated as full and equal citizens for any period of time, a change in government or in the circumstances of their neighbors could reverse this. Most Jewish citizens of Germany thought of themselves as Germans first, and thrived in Germany, until Hitler stirred up the currents of anti-semitism that apparantly always are present under the surface of a European or European-based society.

It is very easy to argue that the reason for this is that Jews were driven out of their own homeland, and their efforts to keep their own culture during the diaspora made them mistrusted strangers everywhere. Therefore, it's also very easy to argue that the solution is for them to have a homeland again.

This was why Zionists in the 40's were successfully able to get Britain to cede them Palestine. There are very good arguments from the evidence of history that Jews do in fact need a homeland of their own, because anywhere else they live may spontaneously decide to murder them for no reason, because it has been happening for 2000 years and has no evidence of stopping.

Of course, there's a huge problem. Britain didn't hand over part of Britain. Nobody handed over Rome, which forced the Jews out of their homeland originally, or Germany, which had just committed the Holocaust. (These would not have gone well either.) They handed over a territory full of people who had done nothing to the Jews, had nothing to do with the Holocaust, and were not consulted or asked for permission.

Jews sought an ethno-state where Jewish people would be treated as more equal than non-Jews because they're an extreme minority worldwide, and anywhere where they allowed non-Jewish people to become full citizens anytime they wanted, would eventually fill up with enough gentiles that it would again become dangerous to be Jews there. Palestinians were, rightfully, pissed off that they were being forced off their land. So they fought back, and Israel retaliated, and that is how this whole poisonous dynamic began.

Does Israel have a right to the land they were ceded? That is unfortunately the wrong question. After Europe and other places randomly murdered Jews for being Jewish for 2000 years, it becomes really hard to argue against the necessity of a Jewish homeland, somewhere, if you have any empathy for Jewish people at all. Where should that be? Well, there is no uninhabited land on Earth that's suitable for habitation; anywhere would have required throwing people off their land.

This may be colonizing, but it's different colonizing than what white people did. It was done for survival, in the face of 2000 years of threats, and it was done by giving them back land they'd lost 2000 years ago.

There are very few cultures that still exist after being thrown off their land that long ago. Romani still exist, but we really aren't sure exactly where they came from... last I heard the best theory was somewhere in India. Native Americans and other indigenous people displaced by colonization were forced off between 100-500 years ago and a lot of their culture has been lost. This makes it kind of difficult to compare the Jewish situation to anything else. But if there was a movement to give the Native Americans back Montana, and fuck all the white people currently living in Montana, they can move or they can live in the new Native American nation... honestly I do not think the left would object to this. (The right would, they'd screech about it, but a lot of leftists would either be "good for them! fuck those white Montanans!" or "well, I dont think it's right to force people out of their homes, but Native Americans were forced off that land in the first place, so...") The Native Americans lost that territory like 150 years ago or so, not 2000. It's not the same thing. But it is, unfortunately, the closest analogy we have, because no one else managed to hang onto their culture and their memory of having a homeland and the world's memory of it too, for 2000 years.

So. Can you criticize Israel? How can you not? You have to criticize Israel to be a good person because they are murdering civilians. They received a horrible provocation from professional provocateurs who knew that they would react harshly, and that that reaction would fuel their movement, and they did exactly what Hamas knew they would, which is incredibly stupid from the perspective of protecting Israel (but Netanyahu wants to protect his own power, not Israeli citizens) and also morally bankrupt on every level. Arguing that Hamas didn't actually do anything all that terrible is simultaneously untrue and besides the point, because Palestinian civilians aren't Hamas and you can't fight a terrorist group with bombs.

But can you argue, with a straight face, that a homeland for Jewish people shouldn't exist? When Israel's behavior has just caused worldwide antisemitism to spike, and once again, random Jews are being subjected to violence for nothing they did? When we have 2000 years of history of the world attacking Jewish people for no good reason? (I do have some theories as to the reasons, but none of them were good ones.) How do you think Jewish people should protect themselves from antisemitic violence, then? What other options are on the table?

And if you're blaming random Jewish people on the Internet who are not Israeli for the actions of Israel, you are doing the same thing the state of Israel is doing when they blame all Palestinians for the actions of Hamas. Justifying their behavior. Plus, if you come from a colonial power, and if you're on the Internet odds are you do, you're being a sickening hypocrite, because I bet you don't want to be murdered for the atrocities your country has committed. I sure don't! I don't want people blaming me for the Iraq War! I was against it. I don't want people blaming me for Trump! I voted against him. I'm American and my country has done horrible, horrible things that I don't want people to treat me badly for because I also think they're horrible and never supported them... but that doesn't mean I'd be okay with America ceasing to exist.

Jews who support Israel's existence, whether they are Israeli or not, are still not personally responsible for Binyamin Netanyahu being a monster. Israelis aren't entirely responsible for the fucker, given that it is human nature to vote conservative when you live in fear, which is why conservatives fearmonger so hard. Their press probably makes it fairly hard to learn about the atrocities they are committing, just like the American press makes it hard to know what evil things America has done lately. But especially, Jews who aren't Israeli citizens can still support Israel's existence while believing that Israel's current behavior is an atrocity, because Israel was founded to protect Jews from worldwide antisemitism, which if you are blaming Jews for Israel's behavior, you're participating in.

I'm not Jewish. But I find the behavior of gentiles who are demanding that Jews not only reject what Israel is doing (that's fair, it's monstrous) but reject Israel having a right to exist, in a world where America, which took over a continent because we felt like it and slaughtered most of the people who lived here, is never told it doesn't have a right to exist... I mean if you're so out there that yes, you believe America and Canada and Australia have no right to exist, I suppose you're being consistent, but if that is not your position, you don't get to argue against Israel existing. Israel displaced people who didn't deserve it and has treated them like shit ever since, just like every other colonizing power, but Israel, at least, is doing it because Jewish people keep getting murdered for no reason and this has been happening for two millennia. The US has no such justification for existence.

This entire situation is more complicated and nuanced than you think. Not the part where Israel's committing atrocities, that's beyond question. That's horrifying and the world really needs to force them to stop. But everything else -- Zionism, the existence of Israel and its right to self defense, blaming Jews for Israel, yadda yadda -- all that. That is more complicated than you think it is.

[jewishbarbies]

Noah Schnapp posted on his socials um stickers “Zionism is sexy” and “hamas is isis” that's why people are so mad like ok but i literally saw them wishing He would get brutally murdered by Hamas then he'd actually know what is up like excuse me???

it’s possible to be a zionist that supports palestinians and that’s honestly the ideal situation. you support the jewish people and their right to self determination but you acknowledge that palestinians are human beings and it’s wrong to force them out of a place they’ve lived their whole lives. zionism ≠ nationalism in the way westerners seem to think. zionism is the belief that jews have the right to self determination in the land they’re indigenous to. there’s no stipulation that it HAS to be Israel specifically or that you HAVE to kill people to do it - and it has nothing to do with whether you support the Israeli government. anyone genuinely thinking this kid is evil is a fucking antisemite and needs to go outside for a break from the internet.

[houxe]

Free Palestine

Listen, I understand that I am just a silly little fanfic creator and my work is often used as an escape for rl problems, but I am also someone who's made my stance on dehumanization and abuse of minorities (even in fictional works) extremely clear and what is currently happening, and has been happening for almost a century, to Palestinians is unacceptable. If there is anyone who follows me, or is in my little community on discord, AO3, whatever, that supports the state of Israel? Lose my account.

This is not a debate. This is not a discussion to be had. I will not be arguing with you in comments.

If you support the state and government of Israel and the war crimes, genocide, ethnic cleansing, and the imprisonment they're committing on the people of Palestine and Gaza, get away from my works, my art, and whatever small community I have made.

These are people. Living, breathing people who had hopes and dreams and futures they wanted to live. Palestinians deserve to live, they've done nothing to warrant the murder and ethnic cleansing of their people.

And the only reason they're facing this is because people think they're inferior. As something not human.

They're human. They're human.

I am not going to explain to you why imprisoning and killing thousands of innocent civilians (mainly children) is bad. Especially when the Israeli government has quite literally been spreading provenly false stories about things like murdered Israeli babies, human shields, and attacks to make themselves seem justified, along with propaganda portraying Palestinians as literal bugs. Calling them animals and dogs and rodents to be 'exterminated', and has been putting them in an open-air prison for years and then turned it into death camp.

It's disgusting, it's evil, is is quite literally a known practice for suppressors to do against their victims as an excuse to murder them.

I should not also have to say that me being pro-Palestine and anti-Zionism does not mean I am anti-Semitic nor do I support Hamas.

That is also propaganda.

I am not anti-Semitic nor do I wish or encourage any harm on Jewish or innocent people, and I do not support Hamas.

Palestinian people are also considered a Semitic people which means some of them are Jewish. Jewish people as a whole are not the Israeli government or state and should not be treated as such. It is blatantly wrong to say being anti-Israel (the state and government of Israel) and anti-Zionism is to be anti-Semitic.

Additionally, not all Jewish people are Zionists and not all Zionists are Jewish people. It's not a religion, it is a political ideology. Many, many Jewish people have spoken up against this and have been protesting against the state of Israel for their genocide of the Palestinian people in Gaza and for the colonization of their land.

What I am is anti-genocide, Zionism, dehumanization, apartheid states, colonization, literal war crimes, death camps, and ethnic cleansing. Just to name a few.

Again, if you support Israel, lose my account. Stay away from my community and any of my works.

If you'd like to learn more about what is happening in Gaza, the people of Palestine, and ways you can help, your best option is to go to TikTok and find these creators who speak and share videos of what is directly happening in Palestine.

vivafalastinleen

arabicmclovin

edwardmliger

thanaa89

clios_world

jamesgetspolitical

naleybynature

aljazeeraenglish

genzforchange

fakegyllenhalal

artlust

devotedly.yours (this link keeps getting removed)

palestine_mwm

rahimehramezany

rynnstar

5149jamesli

wonderlandnews

mxnonme

hippiearab

redauxdefective

brainsballsncigarettes4

super_soniq_m

simkern

dianalomani (this link keeps getting removed)

jamesissmiling

eyes.on.palestine (this link keeps getting removed)

More will likely be added to this list.

Places you can donate:

baitulmaal.org

map.org.uk

irusa.org

mecaforpeace.org

unrwa.org

Lastly, I will leave off with a few videos that should be seen.

Where you can learn specifics on the history and current events of Palestine.

And one specifically for writers of fantasy and sci-fi like me.

Edits: Added more CCs to the list, added a list of places to donate, added more videos, and clarified my wording more. I did take down the comparison just in case, but I'm leaving it to Jewish creators (Redauxdefective) to speak on it. Note, some links to CCs keep getting removed and I'm not sure why.

[hadeantaiga]

how do i have you fully blocked for being a weird zionist and your weird zionism still leaks onto my dash. you humiliate yourself publicly so often its unavoidable.

"Oh no, a person on the Internet is condemning Israel for its genocide of Palestinians and thinks America is evil for vetoing the ceasefire, but also thinks it's wrong to say "kill all Jews" - they must be a Zionist!"

Anyway - sounds like you follow good people who aren't antisemitic, since they keep reblogging from me.

If you want to stop seeing reblogs of my posts, you have two options:

1. Go into your settings where you block tags and post content, and put my username into the post content section. You'll still see on your dash a block that says "post containing content from hadentaiga" but you won't see the post itself

2. Unfollow the people you're following who are reblogging from me.

[hero-israel]

In defense of anti-Israel people, it doesn't seem the fairest to consider any of their political art to be antisemitic for showing the Star of David in a negative light (such as censoring, breaking, being stabbed, etc) when that *is* the only symbol for the State (save for stripes, which I've seen represented too but less). How else are they supposed to criticize it visually? You can only use Netanyahu as a strawman so many times. The institutional and historical issues are more extensive than him or anyone like him. The recent branding with the Star of David of a Palestinian by an Israeli cop (assuming that's true, which looks like it as far as I can tell) shows the symbol can be used for evil. We should maybe make some exceptions to what we might otherwise consider antisemitic. I'm reminded of a graphic novel I read called "Dictatorship: It's Easier Than You Think", which mostly sarcastically criticized and compared various historical regimes. I felt it was a little too biased in a lot of ways, but it made one point I find relevant here. It said that populist ideologies create symbols that represent large swathes of marginalized people so if you criticize that ideology you can be framed for being prejudiced. It talked about how the communist/Soviet symbol was hammer and sickle, representing workers, so if you opposed communism/Soviet Union/etc., they could just say you were classist. (I personally have more sympathy for communism/Soviet Union so I somewhat disagree but I believe you said you're more anti-communist than I am so this might be more agreeable to you). To pull this back to my main point, maybe it isn't fair to have a historically violent nation be able to always have the ability to attribute criticism of it to one of the world's oldest bigotries? Don't get me wrong, I am a Zionist and I do think there's value in Israel asserting itself as Jewish and representing Jews. Enough Jews get associated with Israel by antisemites when they have no affiliation with it or even oppose it, so there's not much real value in trying to separate. And I do believe criticism of Israel and Zionism crosses over into antisemitism more than critics would like to admit. But I'm just making a point about iconography here. I half-wish that Israel went with one of the earlier flag designs of the Menorah or Lion so iconography could be more clear-cut. But maybe it shouldn't be.

A few thoughts on this:

The menorah would be functionally identical to the Magen David in terms of potentially causing confusion / inspiring hate from critique. The lion just isn't as good, though YMMV

It isn't hard for cartoonists to caricature political leaders like Netanyahu, it is in fact their job, if you can call it that.

if someone can draw a Magen David, they can draw it in blue and put in the stripes to remove all doubt that they mean the modern political entity and not the human ethnic group / religion

I don't recall seeing as much specifically blood- and killing-oriented imagery around Muslim crescents. The flag of Pakistan has the crescent on it, people making a cartoon criticizing Pakistan would hopefully not leap to showing the crescent as a knife beheading someone

All things are not equal and the political artists just have to cope with that and work a little harder. It does make a difference that Jews are a persecuted, frequently-genocided group controlling such a tiny land area. If the hammer-and-sickle was only used as the flag symbol of North Korea, which was the only Korean country, and most ethnic Koreans lived there after having been wiped out everywhere else, maybe people would have to be more careful with how they negatively portrayed that symbol.

to reiterate point 1 - it is good that artists and activists should be expected to work hard to avoid bigotry in their critiques

[lordystrange]

I think when it comes to the Noah situation, there are a lot of things to take into consideration that people just haven’t done. I definitely believe when he made that post originally he could’ve been acting out on emotion. And I do believe Noah’s words from his Instagram post has been misconstrued, bc people have the tendency to take sentences like “I like pancakes” and interpret it as “So you hate waffles?”, but I also think some of his actions have been hurtful and conflicting as well.

I’m glad Noah talked about the topic, I just wish he took more time to make a better thought-out/worded response. So yeah, I think the video could’ve been better but one thing that is also true is that people who want to be mad at him would continue to be mad no matter how well-worded and thought-out the response was.

I hate this whole concept that once you mess up, you cannot be redeemed. He is 19, yes, he should know better when I comes to certain things, but at the end of the day he is still young and has many things to learn. People really love to scream that they “never ___ when they were 19” and they themselves don't realize how immature of a response that is. Ppl just do not give grace at all anymore.

A lot of people have spread misinformation and fallen for propaganda themselves, but want to get mad at Noah for doing the same thing. No one is immune to propaganda but it's also important to admit you fell for it and fucked up instead of being like “oh well, oops” the way I've seen a lot ppl on here do. That's why researching things is important. Now Noah comes from a family of zionists so the fact that he is talking with other people about the conflict is progress imo

I don't support what Israel is doing/the killing of Palestinians and I acknowledge the word zionism means different things to different ppl, but the ppl who are trying to re-define the word completely and say it is the new “nazism” are being racist and don't realize how gross of a thing that is to say. And for ppl saying that Noah is “evil” only to turn around and say horrible things to him in the name of “activism” quite simply do not understand real activism at all.

Could this be PR? Imo… maybe. But I always try to give the benefit of a doubt and honestly, if this was a PR response they should have hopped on it a lot sooner and helped Noah write a better response bc there are certain things that weren't talked about in the video.

You said it well.

Taylor Swift once said ”How can a person know everything at 18 and nothing at 22?” I think that’s fitting here.

Me at 19 and me now both think we were/are a good person. But me at 19 thought that I was a good person because I’m so smart to not be wrong. Me now knows that I am a good person because I’m smart enough to know that I have been and I’m going to be wrong about things but I’m also smart enough to learn from them.

Also I don’t think people realize how much control PR has over celebrities. I think Noah wanted to be less vague but in order to keep his job, he can’t criticize Israel in any way.

Thank you for the ask!

[aguineapigcouldntdothis]

i do not welcome people who vehemently believe everyone should be antizionist to this guinea pig loving blog. i ABSOLUTELY do welcome antizionists as well as nonzionists, zionists, and those in the middle. there's some forms of zionism, such as revisionist, that i wont give a place on my blog but most im happy to have here even if i dont personally agree with them. i dont want anyone to come here and act like everyone must have the same interpretation of zionism as them or else they're wrong and evil.

I've spent years researching zionism because it's a part of jewish history that's interesting to me. probably the most important thing ive learnt is while there are wrong interpretations of zionism there are also a bajillion right ones. some of these "right" ones are good, some harmful, some neutral, and many are a combination. it is NOT a simple ideology that you can learn in 2 weeks.

it makes me really fucking mad when i see antizionists constantly insult and attack those who have different views of zionism than them. i know there are people on every part of the zionist and antizionist scales who believe that their way of thinking is the only acceptable way. however, recently it has mainly been antizionists doing this which is why that is my focus. if you are unwilling to learn and are dead set on the idea that you're always right please leave me alone this isnt the place for you. if you wanna hear abt experiences and views that are different than yours then im rlly happy to have you here!

also this is not meant to say that every antizionist is like this that is not true at all. i know many antizionists that are great people who are able to exist with zionists, non-zionists, etc. without being assholes.

[rhaenyras]

Germans love to be like “as someone with family who were Nazis, I support the regime that created an open-air concentration camp in Gaza and continues to use deadly phosphorus gas on its innocent civilians”.

PLEASE dont even get me started on germany and the way they're literally israel's fiercest supporter after maybe the US.... i had no idea before i moved out here two years ago, but germany hasn't fully come to terms with its pivotal role in ww2 yet. nearly a century later and they still think that nazism is the ONLY form of ontological evil there can possibly be on earth, therefore they are scared shitless of being associated to THAT specific level of pure unbridled evil again, so now they have to wholeheartedly support israel and its colonial occupation and genocide of palestine, otherwise they risk being labeled as the antisemites of europe again. nevermind that the atrocities that israel has been carrying out in palestine are nothing short of what the nazis used to do to european jews in ww2 and that being against zionism and colonialism doesn't equal being antisemite... quite the contrary. evil always finds new ways to rebrand itself so that it can stay relevant and appeal to people's shifting conscience while remaining seemingly unopposed. oppression always takes new disguises to appear deceivingly harmless in the eyes of human beings. sadly we don't have enough vision and farsightedness to discern the pattern and true entity of what history is trying to teach us here. nowadays you could say that being a zionist makes you an ethnic supremacist and colonialist... but intentionally blind people will tell you that denying israel's right to exterminate another population is this epoch's own peculiar brand of antisemitism. what a time to be alive, indeed. i can only hope that justice will reveal itself soon and the enablers of so much horror will then come face to face with the consequences and life-altering realization of being on the wrong side of history, the same way the nazis did at nuremberg.

[lihyot-am-chofshi-beartzeinu]

hi! i saw your post about the non jews and zionism thing and I wanted to ask you something as a non-jew

I support Israel, and Israeli Jews, so ive been called a zionist. is it wrong for me to use that term when people ask me my stance? because they usually end up calling me a zionist anyway, but should I use that term for myself? and if not, what can I use?

ty!

Hi, thank you for your ask!

[link to the post in question]

Noting that I do not speak for Jews or Zionists as a collective (and certainly not on behalf of Israelis!) - for me, personally, I don't think a non-Jew should identify as a Zionist, because of how specific Zionism as an ideology is to Jewish history, culture and religion.

Obviously you cannot help what others call you in your support for Israel and Jews and I'm not going to demand you stop using the term for yourself, as I don't find it offensive in the way that I find non-Jews identifying as anti-Zionists offensive - since as far as I can tell, you're just in general support of Israel's existence/Jewish self-determination, which is appreciated.

I suppose a way around it would be to specify to the people calling you a Zionist (presumably as an insult, given how determined they are to turn the concept into something evil and derogatory) that you don't identify as a Zionist because of how specific Zionism is to the Jewish experience and you're not a cultural appropriator lol. But that seems like a lot of effort to deal with people who have made it their life's mission to be Jew-haters.

Perhaps some of my followers could offer their views/suggestions?

[epicwin64]

Anti-Zionism IS anti-Semitism. Zionist means someone who wants Jewish people to have a place to live, so by definition, if you’re anti-Zionist, you’re saying Jews don’t deserve a place to live. That’s anti-Semitism, just because Israel may be a genocidal state where everyone must think that all Palestinians should die (which is what a lot of you believe) doesn’t make it okay. When you say “from the river to the sea”, you want Israel to disappear. So you want millions of people to be displaced in Israel because poor Palestine, they didn’t do anything wrong, Israel is evil and should die? Also you shouldn’t have a moral high ground if you say the word “genociding”, BECAUSE THAT IS NOT A WORD!

[jewishbarbies]

I know it's stupid and you don't have to answer but is being anti-zionist bad? I saw many Jewish saying that they hate Zionism and I thought Zionism were also Jewish? I am confused?

not stupid at all! a lot of people get confused about it bc it’s hardly clearly defined when discussed on social media and a lot of people just assume things.

there’s different kinds of zionism and i think that’s what mostly trips people up, because the majority of goyim don’t know there’s more than one. christian zionism is evil and disgusting and fetishy. there’s no justifying it. the basic definition of zionism in general is believing in the jewish right to self determination, specifically in the Middle East/israel. if you believe Israel is a settler colony and/or that jews don’t count as indigenous to the levant despite the 3000yr old evidence, then you’d be antizionist for sure no matter the kind. there’s a political kind of zionism that’s typically used by western politicians and evangelicals, and that’s also bad, but it can be hard to spot if you’re not jewish/educated/etc.

don’t get me wrong - there’s a lot of people who identify as zionists that have said disgusting things about palestinians/muslims/etc. and those people are just horrible people. but the core belief that jews have the right to self determination in the land they’re proven to be indigenous to is not morally wrong. it’s literally like telling people indigenous to the americas it isn’t their land, they’re not indigenous, and that they’re evil colonizers for wanting their land back. so, imo, being antizionist from that perspective is bad. if you’re anti christian/political zionism, I’m right there with you. but denying jewish indigeneity is fucked beyond belief. you don’t have to deny jews their homeland to support palestinians and vise versa. anyone telling you that you do is a liar and a moral fraud imo.

[slyandthefamilybook]

finkelstein anon again: yeah you really don't know what you're talking about. You're categorically wrong about people using Judaism to justify genocide, because the idea of a "jewish nation state" is dependent on genocide, as all ethnostates are. I also never said anyone was using the Shoah to this end (though israel patently is), I said they were using the Jewish identity, something I'll justify bring up again in a moment

Your bizarre point that being a zionist doesn't make someone evil is... I mean yes following evil ideologies does make you evil, and zionism is an evil ideology, whether they had followed the original plan and established israel in Uganda or Argentina (both of which were suggested before they settled on stealing land from Palestinians and displacing 700,000 people there) they would have had to displace someone. A nazi is a bad person because they are a nazi, an Afrikaner is a bad person because they believe in the Afrikaner nationalism, literally what are you on about. I also never said non-Zionists are inherently good because they can fall into any NUMBER of ideological positions from communist, to indifferent to nazi, and I certainly don't think nazis are good people.

I'd also LOVE some sources on Finkelstein being a racist. Well and good he's been a fucking moron about denialism, but that doesn't make what he said in the Holocaust Industry wrong. Which you would know if you made any real effort to understand the genocide being committed in your name.

idk what your deal is but I'm not your enemy